Chrono Sav Mace vs Wingbow

[BarneyGumbal]

Why is Savage Mace > Wingbow when SM gives: +88 damage, +15 attack speed while Wingbow gives: +60 damage +60 attack speed not to mention the evasion and armour. I figured the attack speed would benefit Chronos' third skill, especially if you don't build an EP.

[apot]

Why is Savage Mace > Wingbow when SM gives: +88 damage, +15 attack speed while Wingbow gives: +60 damage +60 attack speed not to mention the evasion and armour. I figured the attack speed would benefit Chronos' third skill, especially if you don't build an EP.

savage mace procs for damage man
+123 damage, +15 AS
+60 damage, +60 AS

[[eXo]ARCHAON]

Alchemist Bones are in almost all cases, completely useless. the bonuses you get from it can be bought for a lot cheaper, while costing so much, it effectively delays your teamfight potential - basically making you have to farm that much more to compensate.

Chronos is already a late game carry, you are not to expect him to really help out before 30+ min, unless he got 500gpm within the first 10-15min., so getting Alchemist Bones is quite good for the extra money and attack speed, so I find it okay...

Really, anything that improves your farm is good, and the attack speed just tops it off, more bash procs = good

[[GR]dEph_]

Sphere only give u 5secs of protection. Out of the sphere wingbow gives a lot more survivability.

If u can get a good ult tho, u should have 1 hero dead with at least 2 others dying. So just going dps isn't that bad at all.

[BarneyGumbal]

savage mace procs for damage man
+123 damage, +15 AS
+60 damage, +60 AS

Right, I forgot about the proc. Still, wouldn't Wingbow -> SM be better so that you can proc the +100 damage more often?

[apot]

mathcraft for pure dps, not considering evasion or ministun:
dps from wingbow normalized for cost: (60+AS)(60+D)/6000
dps from savage normalized for cost: (15+AS)(123+D)/5400
AS = attackspeed BEFORE any components
D = damage BEFORE any components

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...+from+0+to+500
y axis is attackspeed, x axis is damage
area to the right of the line means you get more dps per gold out of wingbow
area to the left of the line means you get more dps per gold out of savage

tl;dr: you will get more dps per gold out of savage than wingbow
unless you go and farm, not one, but TWO doombringers first AND get phase boots instead of steam, but even then the dps is pretty close

[Kaelillidan]

The thing is savage mace counters wingbow because evasion does not stop true damage.
Better idea to get savage mace if you think your opponent carries are going to get a wingbow themselves.

[BarneyGumbal]

mathcraft for pure dps, not considering evasion or ministun:
dps from wingbow normalized for cost: (60+AS)(60+D)/6000
dps from savage normalized for cost: (15+AS)(123+D)/5400
AS = attackspeed BEFORE any components
D = damage BEFORE any components

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...+from+0+to+500
y axis is attackspeed, x axis is damage
area to the right of the line means you get more dps per gold out of wingbow
area to the left of the line means you get more dps per gold out of savage

tl;dr: you will get more dps per gold out of savage than wingbow
unless you go and farm, not one, but TWO doombringers first AND get phase boots instead of steam, but even then the dps is pretty close

Nice. I guess I'll grab SM before Wingbow from now on.

[DaDrizzle]

added in the + damage you get from the extra IAS you get from wingbow due to the agility steal when comparing the damage output of savage and wingbow?

[[LC]pk_thunder]

added in the + damage you get from the extra IAS you get from wingbow due to the agility steal when comparing the damage output of savage and wingbow?

you don't understand the point

savage mace has +88 dmg, +15 AS, +100 physical dmg proc, and a true strike
wingbow is +30 agi, +30 dmg, +30 AS, and +30 evasion

the point is the evasion is not need, thus u are paying for something you don't need and being inefficient

some other heroes might get wingbow to try to not die during chronosphere, so savage mace is a great counter

it doesn't matter as long as u can kill ppl in chronosphere, then u won't need the wingbow cus u have rewind anyways.

maybe if they had like 3 farmed carries or something/somehow then you might need the extra evasion so u can deal with the other carry fast the chronosphere has stopped

also have to remember that savage mace is cheaper

Chronos is already a late game carry, you are not to expect him to really help out before 30+ min, unless he got 500gpm within the first 10-15min., so getting Alchemist Bones is quite good for the extra money and attack speed, so I find it okay...

Really, anything that improves your farm is good, and the attack speed just tops it off, more bash procs = good

LOL

alch bones is a waste on chronos, runed axe is nuff

[Proxymate]

I tend to get Riftshards over Wingbow, but I don't really play Chronos, so what do I know.

[Feed4Fame]

Always go for :Steamboots::ElderParasite::SavageMace: afterwards you can choose basically any dps Item you want e.g. winged bow, runed axe, riftshards, charged hammer etc

You can add 2 bracers and ironshield if you are dying too often or maybe even a shrunkean had. But those 3 items are core for maxing your damage output.
EP synergizes perfectly with your 3rd skill and :SavageMace: for the greatest damage output.
You can say in general that the damage output for fast-attacking heroes is at best maxed with a :SavageMace:
heroes with high damage max their damage output at best with critical strike.
(this is just a general recommendation, I'm not suggesting you to buy riftshards
on pebbles)

and plz dont get runed axe asap... this is so inefficient.... really guys.... it's only an option as 3rd item or even later OR if you are really skilled and always get 2 or even more targets close to each other in your ulti.
so plz, just dont...

[[LC]pk_thunder]

Always go for :Steamboots::ElderParasite::SavageMace: afterwards you can choose basically any dps Item you want e.g. winged bow, runed axe, riftshards, charged hammer etc

You can add 2 bracers and ironshield if you are dying too often or maybe even a shrunkean had. But those 3 items are core for maxing your damage output.
EP synergizes perfectly with your 3rd skill and :SavageMace: for the greatest damage output.
You can say in general that the damage output for fast-attacking heroes is at best maxed with a :SavageMace:
heroes with high damage max their damage output at best with critical strike.
(this is just a general recommendation, I'm not suggesting you to buy riftshards on pebbles)

and plz dont get runed axe asap... this is so inefficient.... really guys.... it's only an option as 3rd item or even later OR if you are really skilled and always get 2 or even more targets close to each other in your ulti.
so plz, just dont...

EP is generally bad on chronos

and why does nobody get runed axe on chronos? r u guys stuck in patch 0.1.xx?

edit: LOL, getting runed axe as 3rd item defeats the purpose of getting it, it's to help farmed as early as possible!!! It's not made to go with ur ult dummy, it's made so u get that 30 min shieldbreaker and 40 min savage mace to pwn. wow... FAIL

it's now:
runed axe -> steamboots -> sheildbreaker (EP is situational, only if u don't trust ur ability to chronosphere or if u need to gank NAO) -> savage mace -> rift shards (wingbow if they have 2 carries that are farmed) -> demonic/doombringer/charged hammer/token

shieldbreaker -> savage mace is always the way to go for DPS

[radicalomg]

well ofc

but shieldbreaker -> savage mace is deadly

getting EP on chronos is nubbish

WHat item do you recommend instead of ep for the attack speed? Cause its really a huge boost to dps when u have savage mace.

[[LC]pk_thunder]

WHat item do you recommend instead of ep for the attack speed? Cause its really a huge boost to dps when u have savage mace.

who needs atk speed?

would u have 200-300 dmg or 100-200 dmg?

EP makes u squishy afterward so if u don't kill them u can be killed pretty fast

also would u like to proc ur stun inside the chronosphere or outside? cus EP makes u proc it inside (just misses the end of it)

also EP costs mana, and because chronos doesn't have a huge brain (and int gain), he shouldn't need to use too much mana

[[ASQ]voidSkipper]

This is obviously a really stupid question judging by the overwhelming response in the thread but,

Isn't the point of parasite to bash as much as possible with your third skill and steal as much agility as possible in as small a time as possible?

[[LC]pk_thunder]

This is obviously a really stupid question judging by the overwhelming response in the thread but,

Isn't the point of parasite to bash as much as possible with your third skill and steal as much agility as possible in as small a time as possible?

yeah but it doesn't steal nuff for it to be super effective

I mean I'd rather go focus down their carry asap rather than hit everyone and then start to pwn...

[radicalomg]

Ok I can see your point on EP, and I have always been a fan on runed axe (on most melee carries) to farm like a chinese wow player.

However I always tended towards a wingbow, over savage mace - I guess its because of the 'untouchability' you get from the additional evasion. The attack speed is just godlike, and often I DID have an EP so coupled it would rapeface. I can also understand that Savage mace provides some insane dps, the +100 is some strong rapeface too.

You say NO EP, get RA, SB and SM? Is this viable enough, seeing as you will have relatively low hp. Doesn't a shrunken head fit in here somewhere?

[[trNs]Darkstrand]

Chronos is already a late game carry, you are not to expect him to really help out before 30+ min, unless he got 500gpm within the first 10-15min., so getting Alchemist Bones is quite good for the extra money and attack speed, so I find it okay...

Really, anything that improves your farm is good, and the attack speed just tops it off, more bash procs = good

it's not okay to afk farm for 30 minutes, any respectable player doesn't sit around and leave his team to die while he farms the whole game until he has items.

if you waste your gold on items that do not increase your effectiveness early, you'll be stuck playing 4v5 for the most part of the game, and if your opponent is decent and work together, you will lose.

[[LC]pk_thunder]

Ok I can see your point on EP, and I have always been a fan on runed axe (on most melee carries) to farm like a chinese wow player.

However I always tended towards a wingbow, over savage mace - I guess its because of the 'untouchability' you get from the additional evasion. The attack speed is just godlike, and often I DID have an EP so coupled it would rapeface. I can also understand that Savage mace provides some insane dps, the +100 is some strong rapeface too.

You say NO EP, get RA, SB and SM? Is this viable enough, seeing as you will have relatively low hp. Doesn't a shrunken head fit in here somewhere?

wingbow is not needed unless if u are in need of EHP

look, EP makes u take 20% more dmg, which makes burst dmg a possible way to kill you

as chronos, the only thing you will be afraid of is right after the chronoshpere someone like combos you, but if u have RA -> SB -> SM u'd take out most of their team and ur team would be ready to help

if u have an EP, u'd take more dmg from the possible dmg u could take after the ult (which is risky-er). chronos is a glass cannon cus he has a chronosphere but chronos can just live off a bracer, he doesn't need a shrunken head just because of his ult but if u get items like EP then it could make ur life after the chronosphere hard

if u get EP you are reliant on it to give you dps, it's not bad but it's not the best combo (EP never was the best thing on anyone). it's much better to play it safer without EP

and no, lifesteal will not help if u are stunned right after the chronosphere (which the other team would probably do)

main thing is EP gives a crappy lifesteal orb that u don't need (if ur lifestealing inside ult then ur doing it wrong, u should be at full hp)



btw shieldbreaker just makes savage mace just THAT much better

EP is nice but with -6 armor and +60 dmg from SB and how it doesn't cost mana it's a better combo