Snotter Lord

[Threepwood1]

I just don´t like that you NEED to get the summoning skill first..
IMO that should change...

and mannn........
SNOTTERS ARE SO FREAKING FUNNY
¨You are fired!¨ and so on rofl..

Well, I agree that too many skills are dependant on the summoning but one would be okay, like with Luna and her ulti.

So how about this: When you pick Rehire, you automatically get "You're fired" as a subspell, sort of like when you get Lanaya's trap or Soulstealer's Shadow Raze?

And then you can create another last spell, for example, why not remove the speedaura on the snotters and give it to the Snotter Lord instead?
Name it: Encouragement, as the Snotter Lord encourages his workers to move/attack faster.

-Guybrush Threepwood

[PsiRedEye22]

This is the most unbelievably good idea in the entire history of HoN hero ideas. S2 would be amazing to implement a summoner hero like this.

[[S2]Nidhogg]

That's doable, and makes it so you don't feel like you have to pick between both.

You're Hired / You're Fired seems like a good naming scheme for it.

His 3rd skill can be an aura based on the current workforce size. Up to a max of 8. +4 move speed and attack speed per minion. Makes him incredibly efficient as an autoattacker with his workforce, and less buff without his guys around.

I'd draft it up like this:

You're Hired!
Spawns 5 Snotter minions from a nearby corpse to do your work for you.
You get a subspell "You're Fired!" That is an ability of each snotter minion and a main ability of the Snotter Lord (Think Techie mines... you can individually explode or mass explode).

You are allowed a max of 8 minions at any one time of any type (be it Executive or Minion). If you have 4 executive snotters for example and try to use You're Hired! You'll only get 4 minions instead of 5.

The 3rd passive would be:

Deadline
The Snotter Lord needs things done and done now!
For each minion in your workforce, you gain +1/+2/+3/+4 move speed and +3/+4/+5/+6 attack speed. For a max of 32 move speed and 48 attack speed.

I don't want to make it an aura at this point because that's kind of crazy in team battles. Your snotter minions don't need help catching people, they can have a 350 base move speed and you can slow them with Lord.

[Threepwood1]

That's doable, and makes it so you don't feel like you have to pick between both.

You're Hired / You're Fired seems like a good naming scheme for it.

His 3rd skill can be an aura based on the current workforce size. Up to a max of 8. +4 move speed and attack speed per minion. Makes him incredibly efficient as an autoattacker with his workforce, and less buff without his guys around.

I'd draft it up like this:

You're Hired!
Spawns 5 Snotter minions from a nearby corpse to do your work for you.
You get a subspell "You're Fired!" That is an ability of each snotter minion and a main ability of the Snotter Lord (Think Techie mines... you can individually explode or mass explode).

You are allowed a max of 8 minions at any one time of any type (be it Executive or Minion). If you have 4 executive snotters for example and try to use You're Hired! You'll only get 4 minions instead of 5.

The 3rd passive would be:

Deadline
The Snotter Lord needs things done and done now!
For each minion in your workforce, you gain +1/+2/+3/+4 move speed and +3/+4/+5/+6 attack speed. For a max of 32 move speed and 48 attack speed.

I don't want to make it an aura at this point because that's kind of crazy in team battles. Your snotter minions don't need help catching people, they can have a 350 base move speed and you can slow them with Lord.

Great work man!
Nice name btw, fits in with the hero's style more than Encouragement
And yes, and Aura with those stats would be insane, but it's a great spell for the Snotter Lord itsellf!

Will the minions get the attack and/or movespeed as well or is it for the Snotter lord only?
I think you're really onto something here, let's check out all the numbers and calculate maxdmg etc. for now!
By the way, maybe the ulti should buff the Lord as well in some way? Not some major buff, just something small, so that the hero itself actually benefits from picking promotion. For example, the executive snotters could buff the Lord with about 3/5/7 extra damage per executive snotter?(Adds up to a total of 24/40/56 extra damage with 8 executive snotters)
I'm not sure about those numbers, but it's just a suggestion for now!

-Guybrush Threepwood

Edit: Changed some of the numbers.

[[S2]Nidhogg]

I decided on a passive mana regen (at level 16 and a full force of 8 Exec snotters it grants 1.8 mana regen. Not huge, but keeps the mana up for all that hiring and firing he must be doing.

I might change it to something else, or get rid of it entirely. Not sure he really needs it, and it's getting hard to keep track of all the little buffs everyone gets. I don't want him to be a headache to play.

Edit: Oh and if anyone wants to run numbers, please do! I would love if S2 considered this guy as a potential hero.

[[JAC]ClownFoot]

i like the idea of deadline a lot more. fits with the heroes theme of using his minions and attacking en masse

[[MME]FuryClaw]

not bad i like it

[Threepwood1]

I decided on a passive mana regen (at level 16 and a full force of 8 Exec snotters it grants 1.8 mana regen. Not huge, but keeps the mana up for all that hiring and firing he must be doing.

I might change it to something else, or get rid of it entirely. Not sure he really needs it, and it's getting hard to keep track of all the little buffs everyone gets. I don't want him to be a headache to play.

Edit: Oh and if anyone wants to run numbers, please do! I would love if S2 considered this guy as a potential hero.

Hmm, 10-4 on that statement man..
I might run the numbers later tonight but if anyone feels like doing it later, no problem! ;P

I'll report in later if I have any questions!

-Guybrush Threepwood

[bittersweets]

If a mod reads this, please change my no vote or remove it, I did it spitefully after a terrible misunderstanding and regret it very much =(

[Threepwood1]

Okay, working some on the numbers but I have a slight problem!
There are no starting-stats in the description!
Anyways, as the gain is:

• 1.2 - Strength
• 2.3 - Intellect
• 0.8 - Agility

(These stats are WAY to low btw)
I've decided to set the starting-stats to:

• 20 Strength
• 23 Intellect
• 16 Agility
• 42 - 48 Damage
• 530 Health(150 Base)
• 299 Mana(0 Base)

At level 6, with the current gain, the stats will be:

• 27 Strength (27.2)
• 37 Intellect (36.8)
• 21 Agility (20.8)
• 663 Health
• 481 Mana
• 56 - 62 Damage

At level 10, with the current gain, the stats will be:

• 32 Strength
• 46 Intellect
• 24 Agility
• 758 Health
• 598 Mana
• 65 - 71 Damage

At level 16:

• 39 Strength (39.2)
• 60 Intellect (59.8)
• 30 Agility (28.8)
• 891 Health
• 780 Mana
• 79 - 85 Damage

And at level 25:

• 50 Strength
• 81 Intellect (80.5)
• 36 Agility
• 1100 Health
• 1053 Mana
• 100 - 106 Damage.

At level 6, with 3 skillpoints in "You're hired/You're fired" and 2 points in "You're late" and 1 in "Promotion" the damage would be something like:
5 Minions, no executive: 400 damage.
5 Minions, 1 executive: 450 damage.
5 Minions, 3 executives: 550 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 640 damage.
8 Minions, 1 executive: 690 damage.
8 Minions, 3 executives: 790 damage.

And if you add You're late to this, you're "lowest" damage would be a total of 480 and the "highest" around 860 damage.

I've only calculated with a max of 3 executives as you probably won't just hang around and not level to get executives so I supposed that 3 executives would be what you would probably have at most times. Depending on if you're going for kills or if you just want to farm of course!

At level 11, with 1 point in "Deadline", 4 points in "You're Fired/You're Hired", 4 Points in "You're late" and 2 point in "Promotion", the damage would be something like:
6 Minions, no executive: 540 damage.
6 Minions, 2 executives: 740 damage.
6 Minions, 4 executives: 940 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 720 damage.
8 Minions, 2 executives: 920 damage.
8 Minions, 4 executives: 1120 damage.

This is an incredible amount of damage seeing as we can add the damage from "You're late" which gives our "lowest" damage a total of 660 damage and our "highest" a whopping 1240 damage. (The maxed out damage would actually go up to 1640 damage.)
This is all magic damage though and with Hood of Defiance(Now called Shaman's Headdress), the "highest" damage would be about 820 damage or so. This is still insane.
Anyways, I won't even go into the damage at level 16, I can conclude right now: We need a nerf of the damage and a slight buff of the statgain. at least give the agi about 1.0 - 1.3 in gain, as 0.8 is ridiculous.

Rework the numbers as you wish and tell me again and I'll redo the numbers with you again ;P

-Guybrush Threepwood

Edit: Added starting damage and gain.

Also checked up on Demented Shamans stats at level 6:
25 Strength
44 Intellect
29 Agility
625 Health
572 Mana

We're a bit low in other words.

[Sufferr]

At level 6, with 3 skillpoints in "You're hired/You're fired" and 2 points in "You're late" and 1 in "Promotion" the damage would be something like:
5 Minions, no executive: 400 damage.
5 Minions, 1 executive: 450 damage.
5 Minions, 3 executives: 550 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 640 damage.
8 Minions, 1 executive: 690 damage.
8 Minions, 3 executives: 790 damage.

And if you add You're late to this, you're "lowest" damage would be a total of 480 and the "highest" around 860 damage.

I've only calculated with a max of 3 executives as you probably won't just hang around and not level to get executives so I supposed that 3 executives would be what you would probably have at most times. Depending on if you're going for kills or if you just want to farm of course!

At level 11, with 1 point in "Deadline", 4 points in "You're Fired/You're Hired", 4 Points in "You're late" and 2 point in "Promotion", the damage would be something like:
6 Minions, no executive: 540 damage.
6 Minions, 2 executives: 740 damage.
6 Minions, 4 executives: 940 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 720 damage.
8 Minions, 2 executives: 920 damage.
8 Minions, 4 executives: 1120 damage.

This is an incredible amount of damage seeing as we can add the damage from "You're late" which gives our "lowest" damage a total of 660 damage and our "highest" a whopping 1240 damage. (The maxed out damage would actually go up to 1640 damage.)
This is all magic damage though and with Hood of Defiance(Now called Shaman's Headdress), the "highest" damage would be about 820 damage or so. This is still insane.
Anyways, I won't even go into the damage at level 16, I can conclude right now: We need a nerf of the damage and a slight buff of the statgain. at least give the agi about 1.0 - 1.3 in gain, as 0.8 is ridiculous.

Rework the numbers as you wish and tell me again and I'll redo the numbers with you again ;P

-Guybrush Threepwood

HUmm don´t know IMO... summons are complex, for example War Beast´s are OP early and suck late..

I think he should try to make their stats a low % of snotter lord´s, (health, mana bla bla)
this would require a lot of maths for balancing but IMO would be alot better, cause then if u are farmed and item OPed you will be able to own as you should, and if u are weak at items.. well you are weak...

and this makes them not OP early and balanced late..
^^
just some ideas...

[[S2]Nidhogg]

Okay, working some on the numbers but I have a slight problem!
There are no starting-stats in the description!
Anyways, as the gain is:

• 1.2 - Strength
• 2.3 - Intellect
• 0.8 - Agi

(These stats are WAY to low btw)
I've decided to set the starting-stats to:

• 20 Strength
• 23 Intellect
• 16 Agi

With a basemana of 0 and a basehealth of 150.
This will result in 530 health and 299 mana at the beginning.

At level 6, with the current gain, the stats will be:

• 27 Strength (27.2)
• 37 Intellect (36.8)
• 21 Agility (20.8)
• 663 Health
• 481 Mana

At level 10, with the current gain, the stats will be:

• 32 Strength
• 46 Intellect
• 24 Agility
• 758 Health
• 598 Mana

At level 16:

• 39 Strength (39.2)
• 60 Intellect (59.8)
• 30 Agility (28.8)
• 891 Health
• 780 Mana

And at level 25:

• 50 Strength
• 81 Intellect (80.5)
• 36 Agility
• 1100 Health
• 1053 Mana

At level 6, with 3 skillpoints in "You're hired/You're fired" and 2 points in "You're late" and 1 in "Promotion" the damage would be something like:
5 Minions, no executive: 400 damage.
5 Minions, 1 executive: 450 damage.
5 Minions, 3 executives: 550 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 640 damage.
8 Minions, 1 executive: 690 damage.
8 Minions, 3 executives: 790 damage.

And if you add You're late to this, you're "lowest" damage would be a total of 480 and the "highest" around 860 damage.

I've only calculated with a max of 3 executives as you probably won't just hang around and not level to get executives so I supposed that 3 executives would be what you would probably have at most times. Depending on if you're going for kills or if you just want to farm of course!

At level 11, with 1 point in "Deadline", 4 points in "You're Fired/You're Hired", 4 Points in "You're late" and 2 point in "Promotion", the damage would be something like:
6 Minions, no executive: 540 damage.
6 Minions, 2 executives: 740 damage.
6 Minions, 4 executives: 940 damage.
8 Minions, no executive: 720 damage.
8 Minions, 2 executives: 920 damage.
8 Minions, 4 executives: 1120 damage.

This is an incredible amount of damage seeing as we can add the damage from "You're late" which gives our "lowest" damage a total of 660 damage and our "highest" a whopping 1240 damage. (The maxed out damage would actually go up to 1640 damage.)
This is all magic damage though and with Hood of Defiance(Now called Shaman's Headdress), the "highest" damage would be about 820 damage or so. This is still insane.
Anyways, I won't even go into the damage at level 16, I can conclude right now: We need a nerf of the damage and a slight buff of the statgain. at least give the agi about 1.0 - 1.3 in gain, as 0.8 is ridiculous.

Rework the numbers as you wish and tell me again and I'll redo the numbers with you again ;P

-Guybrush Threepwood

Your starting stats sound fine - I'll edit that in.

The numbers for the You're Fired is and will be tricky. We could lower it by a flat amount and then late game he turns from an explode-ball micro into an ophelia-esque "minion-man" where his primary damage goes from detonations to buffs and attack speed. I kind of like the idea of having a choice of playing the nuker or the buff guy.

Not sure how to work the damage to reflect this however. I used Slither as a starting point for ult damage, as at max he can do around 800 non-lethal damage to everyone in an aoe. This requires one click however, and microing enough snotters to get in and do damage (and not be killed / aoed etc... as having exec snotters is the only surefire way to not have your fellas die to one swoop of a Pyro) I figure lethality is fine.

I like the bonus damage from Execs, as it is a huge incentive to promote your minions. Maybe make You're Fired! Do less damage in a radius?

Perhaps:
60/70/80/90 in a 100 aoe and 75% of that in a 175 aoe and 50% of that in a 300 aoe (the spells max aoe distance).

So you gotta get your snotters close to do max damage.

Sound fair?

[[S2]Nidhogg]

• 20 Strength + 1.8
• 23 Intellect + 2.9
• 16 Agility +1.7

At level 6 Should yield:
31 Str
40 Int
26 Agi

Close to Shaman.

At level 11 it would be:
40 Str
55 Int
35 Agi

[Threepwood1]

Your starting stats sound fine - I'll edit that in.

The numbers for the You're Fired is and will be tricky. We could lower it by a flat amount and then late game he turns from an explode-ball micro into an ophelia-esque "minion-man" where his primary damage goes from detonations to buffs and attack speed. I kind of like the idea of having a choice of playing the nuker or the buff guy.

Not sure how to work the damage to reflect this however. I used Slither as a starting point for ult damage, as at max he can do around 800 non-lethal damage to everyone in an aoe. This requires one click however, and microing enough snotters to get in and do damage (and not be killed / aoed etc... as having exec snotters is the only surefire way to not have your fellas die to one swoop of a Pyro) I figure lethality is fine.

I like the bonus damage from Execs, as it is a huge incentive to promote your minions. Maybe make You're Fired! Do less damage in a radius?

Perhaps:
60/70/80/90 in a 100 aoe and 75% of that in a 175 aoe and 50% of that in a 300 aoe (the spells max aoe distance).

So you gotta get your snotters close to do max damage.

Sound fair?

I also love the idea of having a nuker/buffer as he can both farm quite well or go for nuking and thus getting some earlygame kills!
And question is: How many minions will die if you charge in with all of them? They have 400 hp and are vulnerable to magic as ordinary minions which I think is fine, most heroes will be able to get at least 2 or 3 of them down and probably escape from their lethal explosions but the executives will be harder, which I think is good, if we were to nerf them, Snotter would be worthless. And as you earlier stated: Lethality seems to be fine for now. If not, it can just be edited!

I see what you're getting at here and I like the idea of him causing less damage in an aoe, but then we should increase the aoe itself to around 400 or so to even it out a bit more in teambattles etc.
I like the idea, as it sort of makes sense aswell.. The longer the snot flies, the less damage it causes ;P

I also think the new improved stats are good, I'll redo the health and mana and see how it looks in comparison to Demented Shaman, Puppet Master and Zephyr(Seeing as all of these can go battle and support, which I suppose will be the primary roles of the Snotter, together with pusher.)

-Guybrush Threepwood

[[JAC]ClownFoot]

would the snotters be timed, or have infinite life time?

[Threepwood1]

would the snotters be timed, or have infinite life time?

As far as I know, infite lifetime(read: until you decide to fire them).
Seeing as if they were timed, would the promotions give them a new timer and in this case: for how long would they be alive etc.

Just a sidenote tho'..
Maybe the cap for how many minions should go up with each level?
Because as it is right now, you will have a quite imba nuke at level 1 - 3.. for example, if you team up with a stunner, you can basically hide your minions away in the forest and then wait for them to push a bit and them: BAM, Stun, Nuke for about 540(at level 1) or 620(at level 3). And if you're level 2 or 3, you could also have put one point in You're late, making this the ultimate firstblood-hero tbh.. a bit too ultimate!

And by the way, when you upgrade the rank of the spell, will the minions automatically be upgraded or will they have to be replaced to be upgraded?
In my opinion, the latter seems to be more fair, as you could just hide away your minions in the forest and wait for your opponents otherwise..

-Guybrush Threepwood

[[DvI]Excalibur]

Hilarious and I love it, however if it's okay with you, I'd like to leave it here a little longer for further discussion and development. If you object, I'll move it into top as-is, but I feel others may have more input to give at this time.

[Threepwood1]

Hilarious and I love it, however if it's okay with you, I'd like to leave it here a little longer for further discussion and development. If you object, I'll move it into top as-is, but I feel others may have more input to give at this time.

We're still developing it some, so it's fine by me(even though I'm not the creator, I'm just a mere contributer!), and thanks for the great feedback, Lucisama will surely finish it up fine so that you just can't say no!

-Guybrush Threepwood

[[S2]Nidhogg]

As far as I know, infite lifetime(read: until you decide to fire them).
Seeing as if they were timed, would the promotions give them a new timer and in this case: for how long would they be alive etc.

Just a sidenote tho'..
Maybe the cap for how many minions should go up with each level?
Because as it is right now, you will have a quite imba nuke at level 1 - 3.. for example, if you team up with a stunner, you can basically hide your minions away in the forest and then wait for them to push a bit and them: BAM, Stun, Nuke for about 540(at level 1) or 620(at level 3). And if you're level 2 or 3, you could also have put one point in You're late, making this the ultimate firstblood-hero tbh.. a bit too ultimate!

And by the way, when you upgrade the rank of the spell, will the minions automatically be upgraded or will they have to be replaced to be upgraded?
In my opinion, the latter seems to be more fair, as you could just hide away your minions in the forest and wait for your opponents otherwise..

-Guybrush Threepwood

I see what you are saying.

Easy fix is you have a cap of 5. Promotion lets you add one more minion to your workforce. So at max rank, you get your 8 minions. At level 6 you control 6 minions. 11 you get 7. 16 you get 8.

It can work like that and I can expand the explosion radius to 400 or so, keeping the 75/50% damage.

So at level 1, you can get at most 5. 5x60= 300, which is fine for a nuke you have to spend lots of mana on (You're Hired twice) AND you have to have a lane partner.

No worse than Swiftblade and a stunner.

Thanks btw for all the help.

Edit: Won't be back till late, but thanks everyone for the contributions / criticisms. We'll get em' polished so he's game worthy

[[Cool]NinjaPants]

Hmm I think the hero has a bit too much forced synergy....not sure though...I think at least his third spell if not his ult as well, should be able to do something if he doesn't have any minions.

This is just a suggestion and you completely ignore it, but what if you switched the 'You're Hired'/'You're Fired!' to his ult and then changed Deadline to just be a buff aura. That way the aura can buff his allies creating synergy with others, and it can also buff his minions, creating synergy with his spells.
I think that the lack of good synergy with others is somewhat detrimental to this otherwise interesting hero.