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Originally Posted by Rilian
Why will this not happen?
"If you PSR is higher then mine, you obviously don't have a life.
You are a looser and probably a virgin."
For the same reason that some ppl never win the lottery even if they played more than enough times, statistically.
On topic:
im not so good at maths and it's kinda tiring to follow up
the equations, so so far what's the damage point where Riftshards takes over?
so you get a six every 6th time you roll the dice?^^
it's the thing with statistic, it will become true with great numbers, but you cannot rely on the % with the though of "I didn't get a procc the last 10 attacks, so now it should procc!"
for more see Wiki: Law of Large Numbers
btw: it's different in DotA
afaik it's this post, so it's around 96-97 dmg
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited [...]." - Albert Einstein
We are a nation of thinker, because we always think about what others are thinking about us. - Gerhard Uhlenbruck (*1929) - german aphorist
The practical cutoff is between 150-250 depending on attack speed.
Very interresting thread
I think Truestrike (100% no miss) and the fact Savage Mace can interrupt channeling spells should be mentioned too
Riftshards have "only" the dps boost
My Fayde Alt. Avatar suggestion "Hassassin Fayde":http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=14811835
Yea however riftshards can provide high burst damage rather than just sustained damage which can be very usefull when taking out a high priority target.
^This is pretty much the range. I would use 177 damage before you purchase either as the general rule though. 177 damage assumes you have +100 attackspeed before you purchase. For example, 75 agility, +25 from steamboots. Or 45 agility and a warpcleft (+55).
This is both informative and useful. Thanks!
Ps. I Love you guys, I tried to keep up with the math but you lost me.
''
Don't forget the fact that savage mace is way harder to farm: Every part in savage mace costs more than any part in riftshards.
Introduction:
I'm tired of people postulating suggestions or ideas based on "feel", or half-ass mathematical analysis based on poor assumptions. There have been threads about Riftshards vs. Savage Mace in the past. Some people neglected speed factors. Nearly everyone failed to recognize that this game has an economy, so damage needs to be normalized by gold costs.
I will not make ANY assumptions. My calculations below factor in attack speed as well as the gold cost of the items (even though 5500 vs 5400 is close to negligible).
NOTE: ARMOR HAS NO EFFECT SINCE THE PROC FROM BOTH RIFTSHARDS AND SAVAGE MACE ARE BOTH PHYSICAL
The Acronyms and Variables:
SM = Savage Mace
SMd = Added damage output, including all factors, that SM adds
SMv = Value of SM = SMd / 5400
RS = Riftshards
RSd = Added damage output, including all factors, that RS adds
RSv = Value of RS = RSd / 5500
D = Damage BEFORE purchasing any of the items or components
S = Attack speed bonus BEFORE purchasing any of the items or components
(includes everything... so if you have 80 agility and +30 attack speed worth of items, S = 110)
The Basics:
SMd = 88+.35*100+{15*[(D+88)+35]}/(100+S)
SMv = 88+.35*100+{15*[(D+88)+35]}/(100+S)/5400
RSd = 75+(D+75)(.2)(2.4-1) = (.28D+96)
RSv = 75+(D+75)(.2)(2.4-1)/5500 = (.28D+96)/5500
The Method:
[indent]To solve the problem of which is better, we have to find the trend line where the values SMv and RSv are equal to each other. Since we have only two variables (D and S), we can simply solve for S in terms of D. The result will be a plot of S vs D.
Basically it boiled down to this:
1) Set SMv = RSv
2) Solve for S in terms of D
The Results:
All points above the curve favor Riftshards. All points below the curve favor Savage Mace.
The Conclusion:
As you can see from the graph, there are very few instances where Riftshards will provide more damage per gold spent. You'd have to hit for 190 at 100% increased attack speed BEFORE purchasing your item. This is a rare situation.
Also, Savage Mace has better intangibles... it provides a channel stopping mini stun, and has better reliability and consistent output (35% procs vs 20%). Finally, Savage Mace makes it so that you NEVER MISS... attacking uphills or against a hero with evade will no longer have an effect.
All this together means that Savage Mace generally gives more additional DPS per gold spent.
Exceptions:
If you have high attack speed or high base damage Riftshards is more viable. For example, if you are Soulstealer, your passive damage boost + damage from Assassins Shroud + 30% ias from steamboots = you may want to get Riftshards as your next major item instead of Savage Mace.
Hope this was helpful! If you have questions or private comments please send me a message and I'll try to get back to you.
Last edited by MacroHard; 10-10-2011 at 11:43 AM.
Merged with the other thread lol
You must have missed it
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Tech Support and Customer Support: https://www.heroesofnewerth.com/support/
Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
Wow you act fast! I even named my thread the same title lol. Crazy...
Actually I renamed the thread to that since it looks a lot nicer
Thanks for your contribution though.
S2 Games: Dedicated employees serving dedicated gamers. Continuous development. Never-ending improvement.
-----------------------------
Tech Support and Customer Support: https://www.heroesofnewerth.com/support/
Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
You seem to believe Savage Mace's 100 damage on proc bypasses damage mitigation, this is false. Armor shouldn't factor into the comparison at all.
Damage per gold analysis is a good idea, though. I should have thought of that.
Last edited by edxs; 05-07-2010 at 03:10 PM.
The Savage Mace's proc damage is true damage and bypasses armor and magic armor reduction. The calculation stands unless one of the code reading guru's says otherwise.
People constantly bring this up as fact, but it's been refuted countless times. It isn't true, and it hasn't ever been true. It's a separate instance of 100 Physical damage.
The changelog and item description says otherwise. Would a moderator mind stepping in and clarifying the issue?
If it is indeed physical there would be no added benefit against higher armors, and you may use the 0 armor trend line on my graph for comparison.
Later tonight I will do an in game test in practice mode... level 1 Soulstealer with savage mace (~130 damage) attacking a level 25 Pebbles with 6x Frostfield plates (~100 armor) and see if I can see the 100 damage boost.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...2&postcount=17
I was wrong saying it's never been true.Version 0.1.26
--------------
- Savage Axe's triggered bonus damage will no longer trigger on structures
* Fixed a bug causing Savage Axe's triggered effects to deal True damage instead of Physical
The description doesn't say anything about True damage.
Post #17
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...2&postcount=17
Darn edxs ninja'ed me. I am sad now
S2 Games: Dedicated employees serving dedicated gamers. Continuous development. Never-ending improvement.
-----------------------------
Tech Support and Customer Support: https://www.heroesofnewerth.com/support/
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