Zem, the Giant Glacial Worm

[Grigden]

Summary, for people who want the idea without all the reading:

skill 1: Epidermifrost (passive)
-bonus armor: 2 / 4 / 6 / 8
-chance to damage and apply move and attack slow when hit in melee: 25% / 30% / 35% / 40%
-damage: 25 / 50 / 75 / 100 (these might be less if its too high)
-move and attack slow, 4 seconds: 20% / 28% / 38% / 50%

skill 2: Jörmhungar (W)
-devour any creep for regular gold and bonus gold of: 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (only if its enemy or neutral do you get the regular, maybe bonus too)
-this costs some small amount of mana, 30 second CD all levels
-when skill is in cooldown, gain hp/mp regen: 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 (mana regen might half to be a lot less
skill 3: Flollop (E)
wave-like aoe dmg/stun (shape of: defilers wave, a little smaller though)
normal str hero nuke dmg, 2 sec stun
applies epidermifrosts slow when it hits (2 sec of slow left after stun wears off)
-does not change your location

Ultimate (suggested by revirath): tunneling madness
"... you burrow, pop out and "eat" the targeted unit as you jump out of the ground, then "eat" another unit as you burrow back into the ground at their spot...etc." You come out at the target, go in at another target, come out at another, go in at a fourth, then come out at the final one, finishing off in their location

"There is a .75 second delay between each jump. At the end of the chain Zem stuns the last enemy for 2 seconds and spits out everything he collected. Do like 3/4/5 enemies as a progression. Eat jump a unit makes could make it take 75 damage

(alternate) Ultimate: Tunneler
Dive underground from where you are, come out at target location, knocking all allies and enemies away from center of circle a certain distance. dmg and slow to enemies

more details for these found below, along with mana cost and spamming issues, usage, gearing, etc. please read if interested






Zem the Jörmungand

Type: Melee strength hero, scourge equivalent side
Role: Initiator, tank, aoe/support

I made this character because there seems to be a lack of initiation in team battle, and I thought this one could accomplish that, along with some minimal tanking ability, and a defensive/farming capabilities to help it build some survivability. A hero that can start the fight for his team and not be dead before it ends.

keep in mind i only have only outlined the basics of the skills and theme, the numbers are still up in the air. Those arent really my decision. You dont have to vote until it gets more polished, since a few of the skills aren't finalized completely.


Zem, a giant glacial worm; i dont know any lore of this universe, but it probably has frozen northern sections, and thats where this monster comes from. Obscure beast of myth and legend, the Legion didn't believe they were real until one joined their enemy.

STATS:
Strength (primary): start medium, growth medium
agility: high start, low growth
Inteliigence: start medium, growth medium

I think his str and int could start the same, and str grow slightly faster than int.
high starting hp, medium mana, low armor

SKILLS:
Skill 1 (passive): Epidermafrost
This skill is like the old tiny's old craggy exterior, with a 'freezing skin' theme.
Zem has skin so cold it effects anything it touches. Leveling this skill has multiple effects:
1. increase armor
2. sometimes when he is struck in melee, the attacker is frozen in place and takes bonus damage [like glacius ice block, same effect, diff dmg and duration]
[alternate effect: any time struck in melee, attacker gets damaged and slow effect to move and attack speed]
3. ranged attackers get only a minor attack speed decrease

all levels have the same, or increasing chance to proc it. maybe 20% (thanks to darkblade_1 for finding this oversight)
Level 1: 2 armor, .25s freeze and 25 damage, 15% ranged attack slow for 4 seconds
Level 2: 4 armor, .5s freeze and 35 damage, 20% ranged attack slow for 4 seconds
Level 3: 6 armor, .75s freeze and 45 damage, 25% ranged attack slow for 4 seconds
Level 4: 8 armor, 1s freeze and 55 damage, 30% ranged attack slow for 4 seconds
[if its a slow instead of stun, same dmg but some balanced slow. duration of ranged slow can be different too.]


Skill 2 (W): Jörmhungar
This is like old doombringers Devour
Zem has insatiable and uncontrollable hunger, and he is really large so he eats all the time.
Cooldown: 30 seconds
Zem eats any creep (not ancients), receiving the normal money for the creep, and a small bonus, immediately, (unless its an ally creep, then he only gets the bonus). The gold bonus increases for each level. While it is in cooldown, he has a buff called 'Digestion'

Digestion effects:
Level 1-4: some kind of small hp and mp regen, increasing per level. [this could instead be move or aspd buff. it would be up 100% of the time if ideal, so it cant be too big]


Skill 3 (E): Flollop
This is basically a wave like stun, shape of the defiler or pyromancer wave nuke, but slightly smaller perhaps. Applies Epidermifrost's slow to those affected. (the slow starts on hit, so it starts wearing off before the stun ends. this way the slow is very short after the stun).
One of the immutable laws of the universe is that only Zem can flollop. With this skill, Zem thwacks an area with his huge body, doing dmg and stunning briefly. This also has the effect of putting his frozen skin in contact with his targets.

Cooldown: medium to low,
mana scost (120 maybe)
Level 4: 2 sec stun 250 dmg, [applies Epidermafrost slows]
[if the slow from his armor is 4 sec, after the stun itll only have 2 seconds left]



Ultimate (as suggested by Revirath): tunneling madness

"... you burrow, pop out and "eat" the targeted unit as you jump out of the ground, then "eat" another unit as you burrow back into the ground at their spot...etc." You come out at the target, go in at another target, come out at another, go in at a fourth, then come out at the final one, finishing off in their location

"There is a .75 second delay between each jump. At the end of the chain Zem stuns the last enemy for 2 seconds and spits out everything he collected. Do like 3/4/5 enemies as a progression. Eat jump a unit makes could make it take 75 damage. So at level 16:

Zem hits Unit 1, it takes 75 damage and grabs it.
Zem hits Unit 2, dealing 75 damage to Unit 1 and Unit 2, Unit is also grabbed.
Zem hits Unit 3, dealing 75 damage to Unit 1, Unit 2, and Unit 3, Unit 3 is grabbed.
Zem hits Unit 4, dealing 75 damage to Units 1,2,3,4, Unit 4 is grabbed.
Zem hits Unit 5, dealing 75 damage to Units 1,2,3,4,5, Unit 5 is stunned for 2 seconds.

Summary:
Unit 1 takes 375 damage and was disabled for 3 seconds.
Unit 2 takes 300 damage and was disabled for 2.25 seconds.
Unit 3 takes 225 damage and was disabled for 1.50 seconds.
Unit 4 takes 150 damage and was disabled for .75 seconds.
Unit 5 takes 75 damage and gets stunned for 2 additional seconds at the end of the ult.

*Obviously running out of targets in range would end the ult on as many hops as their is targets.*

Assuming you hit all 5 heroes on the other team, you have their entire team at the same spot, some of the are hurt, and one of them is stunned for 2 more seconds. Now, you are stuck in the middle of them, but Zem is a tank and you should be fine, especially if you follow up with a flollop. "

levels would increase targets: 3 / 4 / 5
high mana cost, 1 min cd at max would be fair


Ultimate (alternate) (R): Burrowstrike, Tunneler, something better. suggestions welcome
These skill details are not finished, there are a couple of options here, but the basics are constant.
Zem digs down from his location, burrows through the ground, and comes up at a target. The force of his expulsion knocks everyone back a certain distance, including allies.

The knock back pushes units out to a certain distance, so everything within, say, 350 units, is knocked back to 350 units away from Zem. this will pile them up, so with unit collision they wont all be exactly the same distance away, but all will be outside of a certain range. Also, it pushes away from Zem in every direction, so there will be a big circle around the spot.

option 1: this skill can or must target a unit to center on, and that unit will be knocked into the air, taking more dmg and getting stunned
option 2: this skill can target anywhere like a blink, and doesnt knock anyone up or stun them

Either way, enemies affected by the skill will be slowed a little and take dmg, like 200, 300, 400.

Cooldown could be 140, 120, 100, with a medium mana cost (175, 225, 275). Range should be kind of high, maybe 1200 at max. this skill is for initiating. Also, some sort of small time between targetting and tunneling/emerging, maybe 1 second. it wouldnt make sense for it to be an instant travel time.


Analysis:
as you can see there are some options for how some skills will work, and few of the numbers are too accurate or balanced, but thats not really my job.
Skills:
skill 1 -The goal is to keep up Jormhungar, for the money and the slight buff,
skill 2 -you want epidermafrost leveled to help farm, and give some help when you burst forth in the middle of a battle.
skill 3 -Flollop is useful to start a fight, finish someone off, or keep someone from running, and good to use after the slow from the ultimate wears off
ultimate -The ultimate would be used to start group fights, you would pop out in the middle, shoving some enemies to your allies, and some away, really breaking up their group. then you could use flollop to keep the others away from the now-stranded heroes close to your team. alternatively, you could use it to push enemies away from the allies they chase, by coming out between them and making them seperate.

Flollop and the ultimate might be expensive, and so hard to spam. he would need a lot of mana and regen to use spam these over and over without returning to base, and he doesnt have a lot of those on his own.


Builds:
initiator, support: This char has a two big spells that could use in team battle, or to gank on your own, so you could build him with lots of mana and regen,
tank, initiate: As an initiator, with a skill that puts you amidst danger, you could go for tanky items since hed be in the middle of the battle, with a little mana stuff so you can get your skills off.
soloist: with something like a battlefury and his armor with proc, he could farm really well, and do a lot of aoe dmg, while having some much-needed regen.

in any case, its between getting the armor skill and devour for money and survivability early, vs getting high Flollop and armor so you can go ganking with friends at 6, there is more that one way to play this char, depending on the situation.

What I'd like from all of you is tips and advice on finalizing some of the skill details, giving numbers that might be more viable. You can vote after some changes are made if you dont like it much now, as I said it isnt fully operational. I'll add a poll later, once i remember how.

thanks:
Revirath
darkblade_1

5 thumbs down from people who didnt say why though one of those was a person who dislikes me, and as such, his vote does not matter, since it has no basis. I'm fine with people who dont like the hero, but at least say why, thats just polite, helpful, and constructive

[[TG]Darkblade_1]

Well, one of the key differences between craggy exterior and the power you have there is that this one reads like occurring every time he's hit. You need to put in the % chances for it to happen each level.

[Grigden]

thanks darkblade_1, i overlooked that when i was typing this down, of course its a chance. what is craggy exteriors proc chance, anyone remember?

[Sufferr]

I think it increases by level.. uh almost 40% level4?

[Grigden]

i wrote too much didnt i, no one wants to read something so long. ill add in a shortened summary at the beginning, so people can get an idea what it is about

[Revirath]

I like the basic idea of the hero, but 2 suggestions:

1) epidermifrost slow may be a tad much..I think it should be more like 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% slow

2) The ult...I don't know if I like knocking everyone back in an AoE from a point. There are a lot of ults that work on heroes being clumped together, seems counter-intuitive. Combine that with the fact that you already have the ability to move forward quickly with your third skill, it feels a bit weird.

I think you should make Flollop the ultimate, buffing it obviously, and come up with a new 3rd skill.

I really like the second skill though, this character is going to be more about support/tank than hero killing so it gives him decent farming ability. I was a big fan of Doombringer =)

[Bracer_Crane]

Jormhungar needs to have a nordic letter. something like Jörmhungar.

[Grigden]

I like the basic idea of the hero, but 2 suggestions:

1) epidermifrost slow may be a tad much..I think it should be more like 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% slow

2) The ult...I don't know if I like knocking everyone back in an AoE from a point. There are a lot of ults that work on heroes being clumped together, seems counter-intuitive. Combine that with the fact that you already have the ability to move forward quickly with your third skill, it feels a bit weird.

I think you should make Flollop the ultimate, buffing it obviously, and come up with a new 3rd skill.

I really like the second skill though, this character is going to be more about support/tank than hero killing so it gives him decent farming ability. I was a big fan of Doombringer =)

1) yeah i dont know the proper numbers to balance slows, so the number is just a general idea, i always doubted those would be the numbers used.
but keep in mind, it only slows things that melee hit you, so you couldnt use it to chase, it is basically to helkp you survive and escape when you need to, and farm

2) the knock back could keep them together if its used on the far side of them. or it can be used to seperate them so you can pick off a few close ones. or the other reasons i said, but i agree, it might mess up an aoe gank from tempest or tree etc.

3) flollop doent move you, its just a wave-shape stun/dmg. but i will come up with some more possible skills in case the ult shows itself to be more unpopular

bracer_crane) yeah i could use some nordic letters, but i dont know the char map enough, and didnt look for it. i will change it though, since its needed.

thanks for the feedback

[Backpack]

Suggested Ult. Mirror Image.


Not One, But TWO Jormungar Wyrms!

[Revirath]

1) yeah i dont know the proper numbers to balance slows, so the number is just a general idea, i always doubted those would be the numbers used.
but keep in mind, it only slows things that melee hit you, so you couldnt use it to chase, it is basically to helkp you survive and escape when you need to, and farm

2) the knock back could keep them together if its used on the far side of them. or it can be used to seperate them so you can pick off a few close ones. or the other reasons i said, but i agree, it might mess up an aoe gank from tempest or tree etc.

3) flollop doent move you, its just a wave-shape stun/dmg. but i will come up with some more possible skills in case the ult shows itself to be more unpopular

bracer_crane) yeah i could use some nordic letters, but i dont know the char map enough, and didnt look for it. i will change it though, since its needed.

thanks for the feedback

Ahh, my bad..I thought it moved you in a wave stun, kind of like sand king. I'm still not feeling the Ultimate...

How about a "chain tunneling" where you burrow, pop out and "eat" the targeted unit as you jump out of the ground, then "eat" another unit as you burrow back into the ground at their spot...etc. There is a .75 second delay between each jump. At the end of the chain Zem stuns the last enemy for 2 seconds and spits out everything he collected. Do like 3/4/5 enemies as a progression. Eat jump a unit makes could make it take 75 damage. So at level 16:

Zem hits Unit 1, it takes 75 damage and grabs it.
Zem hits Unit 2, dealing 75 damage to Unit 1 and Unit 2, Unit is also grabbed.
Zem hits Unit 3, dealing 75 damage to Unit 1, Unit 2, and Unit 3, Unit 3 is grabbed.
Zem hits Unit 4, dealing 75 damage to Units 1,2,3,4, Unit 4 is grabbed.
Zem hits Unit 5, dealing 75 damage to Units 1,2,3,4,5, Unit 5 is stunned for 2 seconds.

Summary:
Unit 1 takes 375 damage and was disabled for 3 seconds.
Unit 2 takes 300 damage and was disabled for 2.25 seconds.
Unit 3 takes 225 damage and was disabled for 1.50 seconds.
Unit 4 takes 150 damage and was disabled for .75 seconds.
Unit 5 takes 75 damage and gets stunned for 2 additional seconds at the end of the ult.

*Obviously running out of targets in range would end the ult on as many hops as their is targets.*

Assuming you hit all 5 heroes on the other team, you have their entire team at the same spot, some of the are hurt, and one of them is stunned for 2 more seconds. Now, you are stuck in the middle of them, but Zem is a tank and you should be fine, especially if you follow up with a flollop.

[Grigden]

to zoe: two worms is too scary, i cant in good conscience make that a skill, sorry. thanks for the reply

to revirath
dood i like that alot, ill add that in, but i will to leave the original as an alternate.
thanks!

[[mgt]oENDERo]

i like this idea because i love the idea of creature heroes. the slow idea might be a little op (epidermafrost)

[Shugo_akakak]

The slow is good for tanking.

The devour port is good for tanks who have trouble laning.

The stun is a good set up for his ultimate, which is just cool.

[Tembel]

I definitely like the setup for the stun and ulti combo. Good idea, needs a bit of work but overall i really like it.

If you want to take a look at mine here it is: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=11837

[Pyronius]

I would stray away from associating Jormungar with worms, as that is a Warcraft/Blizzard etymology. The original Jörmungandr was a serpent, and the son of Loki. S2 is definitely doing their best not to port anything Blizzard into the game. Of course you could keep the name and the like and switch it to a serpent, but then you are at the mercy if S2 wants to pull Norse mythology into their game.

[Gangbangjoe]

Feels like my age of conan raiding boss

[[Sav2]Sordak]

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!

because its from WoW

i bet you dont even have an IDEA from where the name is!

go to the shame room! NOW!