The List - Common Misconceptions

[TheConquero1]

BECAUSE READING IS HARD, OR YOU NEVER READ THE FORUMS UNTIL NOW AND YOUR ABOUT TO MAKE THE 8 OR 9TH THREAD ABOUT ONE OF THESE ISSUES.

Greetings fellow players of HoN, I have here what I hope will, with your help, be a complete and relatively up to date list of many common misconceptions. And I am not talking about misconceptions like Scout is OP, I mean actual game mechanics, either intended or of unconfirmed intention. This is not a thread for bugs.

Why the hell can I not re-size images, these things are huge.

LET'S GET STARTED THEN!

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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/ice-imprisonment.png
Glacius - Ice Imprisonment - Does NOT silence the target. The freeze animation is misleading. This is the same as it was in DotA (whether or not it should be is a debate for another thread). The immobilized portion of the spell disables blink-like spells (Flash, Courageous Leap, etc.).

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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/root.png
Keeper of the Forest - Root - Does NOT silence anyone in it at all. This is also the same as it was in DotA..
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http://wikiwiki.jp/hon/?plugin=attach&refer=image&openfile=blade-frenzy.png
Swiftblade - Blade Frenzy -Does MAGIC damage, a unit that is immune to magic damage, such as a unit with Jeraziah's Protective Charm on it, will take NO DAMAGE from this ability.
-Pausing Swiftblade (such as with Chronofield) will not end his blade frenzy like it did in dota, it will still do damage and he will be magic immune.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/7/7e/Swiftbladeskill2.gif
Counter Attack - Counter Attack does not block/evade the attack when it procs, it simply enables Swiftblade to attack the enemy with his regular attack (without resetting his attack cooldown or slowing down his movement speed).


http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Swift-Slashes.png
Swift Slashes - If you get high enough attack speed you can attack in between hits of Swift Slashes, up to 3/5/8/10 extra attacks once you reach +325 attack speed.


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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/protective-charm.png
Jeraziah - Protective Charm - Unlike the DotA equivalent, Jeraziah's Protective Charm does not dispel his own ultimate: Sol's Blessing. It does not for that matter, dispel ANY positive buffs from unit it is cast on.

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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/blood-crazy.png
Blood Hunter - Blood Crazy - This is a buff. Attempting to purge it from an ally with Protective Charm, Cleansing Shock or Fire Shield has no effect, the target retains the damage boost and remains silenced, Protective Charm WILL stop the damage per second.

It can be dispelled from enemies.
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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/webbed-shot.pnghttp://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Spider-Sting.png
Arachna - Webbed Shot - Spider Sting - Both these abilities are physical and can be used on magic immune targets.


Webbed Shot is only considered physical when on auto. Manually casting/orbwalking will be considered magical for all intents and purposes.

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Game Mechanic - Stacking Slows


Myth #1: I don't know where people are getting the idea that webbed shot stacks with itself. I believe it was a tooltip error, that has been fixed. Similar to how toxin ward says it slows, but it doesn't. Webbed shot is IDENTICAL to Drow's frost arrows in dota. IT DOES NOT STACK WITH ITSELF. For you unbelievers, do me a favor and run a single player test, buy a warpcleft, level up to 5, and attack a creep with autocast, and note how both movespeed and attack speed (in the interface) will only drop ONCE. In fact I believe the devs have even removed the stacking statement




Myth #2: Slows stack diminishingly. It just blows my mind that someone can actually think you can achieve 240% slow by level 3 ult and autoattack. Have you ever seen a hero come to a complete stop after being hit by webbed shot and level 3 spiderling? I sure haven't. The slows do not add up directly, but diminishingly. A hero effected by both spider sting and webbed shot (assuming both maxed out) will have 40% ms deducted from the 20% ms left over from spider sting...A total of 88% slow. You can stack other slows like hack n slash and frostwolf skull on Arachna, but they add up on the same way, diminishingly.

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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/cursed-ground.png
Voodoo Jester - Cursed Ground - This ability cannot be dispelled by any debuff removing abilities. Magic immunity will prevent the damage.

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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Flame-Consumption.png
Accursed - Flame Consumption - Any source of damage that would kill you from above 400 health will do just that, KILL YOU, Flame Consumption will not trigger automatically. You must be under 400 health and take damage for it to automatically trigger.

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http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/decapitate.png
Legionnaire - Decapitate - This ability does not do damage to you if you are below the threshold, it simply kills the unit. This allows it to go through all immunities (Flame Consumption, Sol's Blessing, Protective Charm its not even magical for Christ's sake)

http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/taunt.png
Taunt - This ability is physical and penetrates spell immunity. Also breaks invisibility of any invisible units caught in its radius.

I used to have a section here about fixed issues, but people kept thinking they were still live and complaining. Reading comprehension is difficult.

What's that? I'm missing something? I have an erroneous statement? Tell me what it is, and I'll see what I can do.
http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/
I need your help to keep this list up to date.

[Guldbonden]

Another one:

Swiftblade - Blade Frenzy:
This does NOT make you invulnerable to physical damage, level 25 heroes WONT run from you if you do it and it deals LESS DPS then if you auto attack in Late game (if you're not really crappy farmed). Thus running into 3 heroes with it is not to recommend in lategame ;)

[TheConquero1]

That's more the kind of thing to be put in a Hero Guide, anybody who gets the idea it makes you immune to physical has about the same logic of assuming Protective Charm gave you physical immunity simply because they ignored every word but "immunity".

Nevertheless, thank you for your effort.

[BimBam]

Protective charm does not remove Sol's blessing unlike in dota.

Magebane can use his blink in Tree ulti and in glacius' ice imprisonment unlike in dota.

[ClownFoot]

getting killed by a hero in 1v1 does not mean the hero is overpowered, it just means you shouldnt 1v1 it

[Targuil]

Arachna's spiderling can be cast on blade frenzied swiftblade. Intended or not, but it's possible. Also spiderling can miss if target fades invisible when spiderling is launched.

E: Legionnaire's ult passes accursed's ult and over 400 dmg dealing nukes can kill ult ready accursed without ult activating at all.

These are more or less no-brainers, but deserve their place here I think.

[Forgot10]

You should list everything phase boots can do ;P
Fissure, hooks, mummy wall, valk spear

[ElementUser]

Glacius - Ice Imprisonment: Does not last 10 seconds on creeps like in DotA (it should last 10 seconds on most creeps) :/

Zephyr: Wind Control does not slow enemies like it says it does in the tooltip (and if it does slow, it's not noticeable)

I didn't know the above facts about Jereziah and Chronos, thanks OP!

[Targuil]

It's possible to autoattack between swiftslashes' strikes if you have enough attack speed.

Wildsouls' Booboo is able to take rune.

Defiler's ghosts and towers work inside Chronos' ult.

Slither wards currently have zero aggro. (Will change most likely)

[R1C3]

dark lady's charge attack can destroy runes

malphas can pick up runes

[Raekanishu]

Warbeasts hellhounds can pick up runes, pretty sick if your a runestealer :D

[TheConquero1]

Bump because I just read 4 threads pertaining to 4 things I've mentioned here.

[iOP1]

I Hate You, Phase Boots. THREAD SHOULD BE POSTED...l

[Zwox]

It's possible to autoattack between swiftslashes'

Please explain this one, I don't get it.

[_Archangel_]

Please explain this one, I don't get it.

If his attackspeed is high enough Swiftblade can perform a regular physical attack between the magical slashes that he performs during Swift Slashes. These apply Attack Modifiers such as lifesteal, Shieldbreaker, Frostwulf's Skull, mana combustion and Thunderclaw if you have them.

[Rippsy]

Phaseboots were "mostly" fixed in this patch.

Runes: curiours can also pick them up, so can the demons from puzzlebox.

No need to bump; stickied :)

[LoveShackles]

HoD'd creeps can also pick up runes.

[Killroy]

I think you should mention the orb stacking in here, where you can explain that life steal, armor break and feedback from nullfire can stack all together if I am not mistaken. And there was also a thread on how nullstone completely nullifies venomous leap. So no leap at all.

P.s. very nice list.

[TheConquero1]

I'm not 100% on how orb stacking (i.e. attack modifiers versus buff placers) works. If someone wants to go into detail and explain every orb then be my guest, I'll try and condense it all into a table or flowchart or some such thing.

[TurpinoS]

If his attackspeed is high enough Swiftblade can perform a regular physical attack between the magical slashes that he performs during Swift Slashes. These apply Attack Modifiers such as lifesteal, Shieldbreaker, Frostwulf's Skull, mana combustion and Thunderclaw if you have them.

Actually, Swiftblade always performs regular attacks in between slashes, but the more AS he gets, the more regular attacks he can drop in between, if I am not mistaken.

[TurpinoS]

I'm not 100% on how orb stacking (i.e. attack modifiers versus buff placers) works. If someone wants to go into detail and explain every orb then be my guest, I'll try and condense it all into a table or flowchart or some such thing.

Basically.

Shieldbreaker and Frostwull's Skull dont stack.
The same orb doesnt stack with itself (i.e. getting 2 different lifesteal items wont stack, the highest % will be taken into account)
EXECPT for abyssal skull which is an aura.
Everything else stacks.

[Kumbee]

Hi I played swiftblade and Blade frenzie'd a repeled jereziah. Im pretty sure I damaged him because it was a 1v1 fight on a river with no one else there and I got his life from full to about 10% red. Might need to confirm this though as it could be a glitch.

[TheConquero1]

You were 1v1 river, do you mean Swift Slashes? or 1v1 because you want to be clear there was no interference?

swift slashes works on protective charm

[Kumbee]

Hi I meant blade frenzy(blade frenzy is the one spinning right? I'm not sure). And I'm pretty sure it's one on one so no one else is doing damage(no thunderbringer too) which is why I'm also a bit puzzled about it since I know it shouldn't damage(juggernaut's fury doesn't damage). Anyway I did this again and even saw a friend on a game that has Jereziah vs sb and confirmed that it does no damage. I thought about it some more and remembered that we have slither(name check) who may have pulled his ulti on the jereziah without me noticing but I'm not sure if that's the cause since charm should cancel debuff. I must have missed something or this is one of those rare glitches. Either way I couldn't double check it since I don't know how to save replay here(And I'm not even sure we can have replays)

In any case you can disregard my post first post since I've pretty much proven that it is magical like yurnero's.

[livmew]

Nice and helpful thread, cheers.

I would add that Puppeteer's Hold can be escaped by blinks.

[Zengal]

Arachna's spider-ulti can be killed by Tempest's elemental spawn

[TheConquero1]

I would classify Tempest's Elemental spell killing Spiderling, Booboo, etc as a bug. As I'm guessing this isn't intended, i would find it hard to accept that it is intentional, for now I'll be leaving that aside.

[Hi2]

In DotA, you can attack magic immune objects, such as Towers, while using Blade Frenzy. It might be the same here, I haven't checked.

[Verbati]

Arachna's spider-ulti can be killed by Tempest's elemental spawn

didn't that get fixed? pretty sure they did :/

[Colinthetank]

didn't that get fixed? pretty sure they did :/

tempest used to be able to kill Booboo instantly with his spawns too. That got fixed kinda quick.

[Verbati]

yeah, i know the booboo part, and that it was fixed, but thought they did it with arachnas ulti at the same time...

but oh well, probably will be fixed failry fast :P

[HuMAn_INsANe]

Here's a few, that I think should be put on that handy list.

-Not sure if this was fixed or intended, but does Voodoo Jesters ult still continue after VJ has died? Can Voodoo Jester use shroud (Lothars) while casting his ult?
-Is it intended that you can see some effects being cast in the fog? IE: Pyromancer's spells or Madman's attacks while his ult is activated.
-Does silence stop any particular item from being cast?
-What attacks or spells if any stop Night Hound from going invis? Does silence stop this?
-Swiftblade/Moon Queen - Both ults seemingly cast their spells only on heroes when surrounded by creeps.
-Does restoration stone remove the CD of items? If so, which?
-Is it intended for Behemoth fissure hit box to not hit targets behind Behemoth?
-Demented Shamans entangle physical?

Many of these are probably known throughout the community, but they would make a nice addition to the list.

[TheConquero1]

-Not sure if this was fixed or intended, but does Voodoo Jesters ult still continue after VJ has died?

As far as I know, no.



-Can Voodoo Jester use shroud (Lothars) while casting his ult?

No, but he could in DotA.



-Is it intended that you can see some effects being cast in the fog? IE: Pyromancer's spells or Madman's attacks while his ult is activated.

My guess is no, as this makes forest ganking and Kongor ganking too easy. However, I'm not a dev, so it's just my theory.



-Does silence stop any particular item from being cast?

No.



-What attacks or spells if any stop Night Hound from going invis? Does silence stop this?

While already invisible, the only ability I know to reveal Night Hound is Chronofield.

While visible, Silence and Stun prevent him from re-entering invisibility.



-Swiftblade/Moon Queen - Both ults seemingly cast their spells only on heroes when surrounded by creeps.

While I notice this trend too, I've also seen it be random between heroes and creeps sometimes. So I don't know.



-Does restoration stone remove the CD of items? If so, which?

Dunno. I think it did in DotA, but don't quote me on that.



-Is it intended for Behemoth fissure hit box to not hit targets behind Behemoth?

Don't know. Don't think so.



-Demented Shamans entangle physical?

Yes. Also, using a debuff removing ability during the first portion of this ability causes the second portion to start immediately.

[rhave]

-You can Blade Frenzy and then use town portal (thus making you immune to any interruptions from stopping you)
-Puppeteers hold is physical because Arachna's hardened shell doesn't remove the ability.

[Verbati]

can't prove if this is true or not, but it feels like pyromancers stun doesn't stop NH from re-entering invis.

[TheConquero1]

get me enough independent confirmation and ill take the time to test it myself

[chinaNET]

swiftblade - ultimate does not cancel channeling with the first strike

swiftblade - may not attack during whirlwind, i.e spin and hit tower/hero

behemoth - fissure does not do its own 275 damage to heroe's/creep immidiately behind him

all three of these where cool parts of dota, now gone

[TheConquero1]

swiftblade - ultimate does not cancel channeling with the first strike

i can confirm/add this, as people might expect this to some disappointment


swiftblade - may not attack during whirlwind, i.e spin and hit tower/hero

this one's ill leave aside, at my own discretion of course.


behemoth - fissure does not do its own 275 damage to heroe's/creep immidiately behind him

i presume this is a bug, as he also sometimes doesn't even hit targets immediately in front of him

[KARTlK]

Perplexed does stop item use though.

[Inoko]

One Misconception I'm seeing thrown around a lot the past few days is the Behemoth Ult not bouncing off corpses. This is false as shown here (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showpost.php?p=126374&postcount=61).

[Verbati]

Voodoo Jester CAN use shroud when he is using ulti, atleast he was stealthed every time he used ulti last night when i played against him, and he had shroud :(

[Szadek1]

the hit caused by the swiftslash is dealt, then with enough AS u do a normal hit, if u have even more AS u can do 2 hits, attack modifiers work on the swiftslash hit aswell. only diff is swiftslash does a set 150-250 dmg. all hits in swiftslash can crit.

[Akiry]

Regarding Orb/morph attacks -> Magebanes attack is solely a mana combustion morph, meaning other morph attacks can be added to him. (Which wasn't the case in Dota)

While the tooltip for Nullfire Blade and Charged Hammer mention that they don't work together (meaning Charged Hammer will work alone), it doesn't mention that 2 of either would or wouldn't work together (increasing the percentage). This is, however, not how it works. Instead, the usual tooltip on the item "On attack: blablabla" wont appear on the second item.

Autoattacks with web from Arachna seem to cancel out Nullfire Blade, although it isn't a "morph attack". (Unsure about other morph attacks)


Assassin's shroud can be used with most ulties; like


Moon Rider's ulti -> Use ulti, Use shroud

And the more famous:


Voodoo Jester's ulti -> Put ward, Use shroud


Unlike Dota's Dominator, Whispering Helm doesn't have a timer on its converted units. Useful for heroes like Ophelia (bigger Zoo) and War Beast (passive buff to all his units).

[Ryoma]

can't prove if this is true or not, but it feels like pyromancers stun doesn't stop NH from re-entering invis.

While already invisible, the only ability I know to reveal Night Hound is Chronofield.

While visible, Silence and Stun prevent him from re-entering invisibility.

Your Silence statement is correct, Stuns on the other hand don't prevent Night Hound from re-entering stealth. (That's why Pyromancers Stun for example didn't work.)

[TheConquero1]

i was given the opposite impression, as i know that electrician's stun (which, mind you, is channeled) reveals the unit

i need some independent confirmation

[Akiry]

i was given the opposite impression, as i know that electrician's stun (which, mind you, is channeled) reveals the unit

i need some independent confirmation

Pretty much anything that 'grabs' will reveal the target for the duration of the debuff. That includes Pollywog's hold, Electrician's hold, Devourer's devourer and a thing like Booboo's snare. Other than that, it's silence and a few ulties (Keeper of forest?, Chronos?) that reveals while spell is active..

Other:
Devourer's hook 'can' hit a target that is just behind you when you cast.
Valkyrie's arrow 'can' hit a target.....

[Mittsies]

A lot of these things should be fixed; especially the pseudo leaps not updating positions until they finish. Good list.

[Ryoma]

i was given the opposite impression, as i know that electrician's stun (which, mind you, is channeled) reveals the unit
Those are classified as "shackles" in DotA and not as stuns. In HoN on the other hand those spells have multiple effects to mimic DotA mechanics.
Electrician's grab for example has those attributes:
Stunned
Silenced
Perplexed
Disarmed
Immobilized
Revealed (<-- this is pretty much the reason you see invis units)

...same goes for Pollywog's grab.

Normal Stuns like Hammerstorm's Hammer Throw lack those extra attributes and can't reveal invis units because of that.

(For some reason Devourer's Devour doesn't have the attribute "Revealed", so I'm not even sure if it's revealing invis units.)

It's like Akiry said, pretty much anything that 'grabs' or 'roots' will reveal the target like Glacius' Ice Imprisonment, Keepers' ulti, Booboo's passive, Electrician's grab. Some 'grabs' or 'roots' simply have the extra "Stunned" attribute.

[Dreadlord]

OMG on Orb stacking O M G.

That needs to be nerfed ASAP, before more DotA players come here and see this awful truth and stop not believing the confusing descriptions about orb stacking.

[Domherren]

im not a 100% sure but it seems like the mana regen aura from the ring used for abysall skull is stackable with different hereos. dunno if its intended.

[LegoPirate]

the hit caused by the swiftslash is dealt, then with enough AS u do a normal hit, if u have even more AS u can do 2 hits, attack modifiers work on the swiftslash hit aswell. only diff is swiftslash does a set 150-250 dmg. all hits in swiftslash can crit.


there was a chart posted somewhere on playdota.com that showed how many extra slashes jugg(swift) can get while ulting, and its based on attack speed. not sure how the mechanics work on here tho.

also, you could kill jugg while he was ulting if your attack speed was fast enough to aquire him and hit him while he was slashing in between his blinks. (ergo he wasnt really invulerable). again not sure if it works the same way in this game, as the only hero i could do it with in dota was troll, and theres no troll equivalent in here.

[LegoPirate]

OMG on Orb stacking O M G.

That needs to be nerfed ASAP, before more DotA players come here and see this awful truth and stop not believing the confusing descriptions about orb stacking.


sorry for double post

id have to agree, as that was probably one of the positive limits of the wc3 engine is that it prevented stacking orbs, which made picking your orb a key in your strategy.

[Maxter1]

again not sure if it works the same way in this game, as the only hero i could do it with in dota was troll, and theres no troll equivalent in here.


Troll's equivalent in attackspeed here would be madman.

[LegoPirate]

troll with his ulti (especially the new ulti plus his passive) attacks wayy faster then any madman ive ever seen.

[Alsn]

While this may not fit the theme of this thread I thought I'd point out a quirky thing with any ability that requires you to eat a tree(keepers third skill, runes of blight).

If you are not already in range to eat the tree the game will always try to path you to the north side of the tree(if possible) and once there eat the tree. If you at any point during your walk to the north side come in range to eat the tree then and there it will stop and eat it however so it doesn't matter on lone trees or trees that have their north side blocked.

Basically what this means is that in certain spots your hero will react very weirdly to a simple "go eat tree" command and try to path all the way around a small group of trees in order to get to the north side of the tree. The main problem spots are bot lane near Legions outer tower(at the juke path at the northeastern edge of the forest north of the tower) as well as top lane on the opposite side of the shop(where you can path through two lines of trees).

[Domherren]

u can blink away from scouts ulti he gets cd manacost and ull get no dmg or debuff.. just count to 3 and blink. bet ut works with alot of other spells in game 2 thou.

[SpeedyMcFast]

I've got one for Keeper of the Forest.
His ultimate requires line of sight, despite the spell graphic implying that anyone who touches the area when cast will get rooted. That is not the case, which means it functions like it does in DotA. Though, the spell graphic is much more explanatory there, since it only shows up on the targets instead of on the ground like in HoN.

[``kiko``]

nice

[Domherren]

I've got one for Keeper of the Forest.
His ultimate requires line of sight, despite the spell graphic implying that anyone who touches the area when cast will get rooted. That is not the case, which means it functions like it does in DotA. Though, the spell graphic is much more explanatory there, since it only shows up on the targets instead of on the ground like in HoN.

and ppl can use skills in root to blink away and leap and stuff

[Bigonion]

and ppl can use skills in root to blink away and leap and stuff

Really? isn't it the same as dota (where it's a complete disable)?

[Alsn]

Really? isn't it the same as dota (where it's a complete disable)?No, roots in this game(also includes Glacius' Ice imprisonment) do not disable blink style abilities whereas in dota the standard wc3 limitation that "if you can't move, you can't blink" was in effect.

Some pseudo blinks like Kraken's rush do get blocked however but in the particular case of Kraken's rush the spell still triggers, his position just simple doesn't change. I.e. if you use the rush ability in order to finish someone off with say, 10 hp you will actually hurt him but you will still be rooted in place. At least this was the case a few patches ago and I have seen nothing in the patch notes that suggest this was fixed.

[Domherren]

and ive also seen devourer use hook in root.. so my guess is that spells isnt silenced at all

[Snow_blinded]

Hi I meant blade frenzy(blade frenzy is the one spinning right? I'm not sure). And I'm pretty sure it's one on one so no one else is doing damage(no thunderbringer too) which is why I'm also a bit puzzled about it since I know it shouldn't damage(juggernaut's fury doesn't damage). Anyway I did this again and even saw a friend on a game that has Jereziah vs sb and confirmed that it does no damage. I thought about it some more and remembered that we have slither(name check) who may have pulled his ulti on the jereziah without me noticing but I'm not sure if that's the cause since charm should cancel debuff. I must have missed something or this is one of those rare glitches. Either way I couldn't double check it since I don't know how to save replay here(And I'm not even sure we can have replays)

In any case you can disregard my post first post since I've pretty much proven that it is magical like yurnero's.

If you are standing close enough to your target, and they arent taking "magical" dmg from your bladefrenzy, your hero will hit them with autoattack "physical" dmg. You can notice this by doing whirlwind and right clicking a tower. Your hero will do normal auto attack to the tower while spinning.

I believe the threshold is 100% increased atk speed to start the normal hits in ulti. You need more than 200% atk speed increase to notice yurnero(see him hitting) doing the normal hits.

Both of these things are verified from DotA, dont know whether they carried them as they were to HoN.

[Snow_blinded]

No, roots in this game(also includes Glacius' Ice imprisonment) do not disable blink style abilities whereas in dota the standard wc3 limitation that "if you can't move, you can't blink" was in effect.

Some pseudo blinks like Kraken's rush do get blocked however but in the particular case of Kraken's rush the spell still triggers, his position just simple doesn't change. I.e. if you use the rush ability in order to finish someone off with say, 10 hp you will actually hurt him but you will still be rooted in place. At least this was the case a few patches ago and I have seen nothing in the patch notes that suggest this was fixed.

You can blink, time travel, leap and pretty much use every other magic in 'Ice block' in DotA. Its not classified as a silence or stun. Its just a movement disable.

Verified a 100 times in DotA.

[Verbati]

and ppl can use skills in root to blink away and leap and stuff

you can, but you will still be under the effect of keeper's ulti where you land. However, it can save you ^^,

[Glorify1]

Armor is not diminishing, if you'd like to quote some explanations as to why you can simply go to the how does armor work thread in this forum.

[GoodDayToDie]

You can blink, time travel, leap and pretty much use every other magic in 'Ice block' in DotA. Its not classified as a silence or stun. Its just a movement disable.

Verified a 100 times in DotA.
Technically, any "movement disable" effect will prevent a genuine blink (test it with AM if you like - you'll get a message "Caster movement is disabled"). However, abilities like blinkstrike or timewalk are not coded as true blinks and ignore this restriction. In HoN, I believe all "blink-like" abilities ignore this, although I'm not sure yet.

Also, for those who don't realize this, even in DotA you can use spells (other than true blinks) while frozen or rooted (for example, a rooted Zeus can still hit you with his spells if you're in range). This is still true in Hon. However, in DotA a root effect (such as bear's Entangle or Rooftrellen's ult) will disrupt a chanelling spell (such as Crystal Maiden's ult or a in-progress teleport). In HoN, this is currently (version .37) NOT the case! I watched somebody activate a Homecoming Stone, get entangled by Booboo, and successfully teleport without resetting the Stone's delay.

[VonSoot]

Good list.

[Marty]

dark lady's charge attack can destroy runes

malphas can pick up runes

Actually you can attack the runes with a targeted attack. Hit A then click the rune. This causes the rune to bug out, it will LOOK like it's there but no one will be able to pick it up. I do not know if it messes up the respawn or anything though.

[Verbati]

Actually you can attack the wards with a targeted attack. Hit A then click the ward. This causes the ward to bug out, it will LOOK like it's there but no one will be able to pick it up. I do not know if it messes up the respawn or anything though.

The times I have seen a bugged rune, the same rune spawns at the same place the last rune was destroyed/bugged. Only seen it a few times, so don't know if this is true though.

[Llama]

Just about your cursed ground in the first post. Isint it true damage so it will go thorugh everything? or does true damage just not get resistances but magical imuunity will prevent it doing damage because it is a spell?

Also, malphas and other summoned units count as creeps, so expect 5 sec stuns from things like vodoo jesters cast

[jerzy]

I want my DotA back. Can I please get my DotA back. How about making my DotA work. I'd prefer you tell me, yeah this'll work like it does in DotA, it would really really go along way towards my wanting to buy this game. This game looks really pretty and all, but if you can't get the gameplay right (as in the mechanics of DotA), then I have NO reason to buy it. I don't want some pretty shinny thing just cause it's pretty and shinny, I want it for the GAMEPLAY... which at the moment HoN seems to be seriously lacking in.

[LegoPirate]

cursed ground does true damage? i didnt know that

either way, its a magical effect, so magic immunity will work on it. (just like jeri's heal)

basically magic attacks have 2 types of damage. pure and regular. pure wont be reduced by resistance, but can still be stopped by immunity.

[fille3002]

this was really helpful! tnx alot!

[zellogs]

If your under the effects of hemmorage can you blink and take no damage?

[Larfleeze]

Hemorrhage - This ability can be removed by any dispelling ability in the game.

This is wrong, fyi. Hell, at second glance half the things you listed in the first post are wrong.

[TheConquero1]

Unless this has been changed in recent patches, I have consistently seen Hemorrhage dispelled.

I do need to update a few things, but I have little independent confirmation. And I have no desire to spend all my time testing things, especially since I would need a group of people willing to spend a fair amount of time testing certain abilities against one-another.


Hell, at second glance half the things you listed in the first post are wrong.

Tell me then, be specific.

[Alienbrain]

I want my DotA back. Can I please get my DotA back. How about making my DotA work. I'd prefer you tell me, yeah this'll work like it does in DotA, it would really really go along way towards my wanting to buy this game. This game looks really pretty and all, but if you can't get the gameplay right (as in the mechanics of DotA), then I have NO reason to buy it. I don't want some pretty shinny thing just cause it's pretty and shinny, I want it for the GAMEPLAY... which at the moment HoN seems to be seriously lacking in.

U know what BETA stands for? ...
Relax, they work on gameplay constantly....

[RenoFox]

Good read, nice to confirm things for personal reassurance.

[Ancestor]

If his attackspeed is high enough Swiftblade can perform a regular physical attack between the magical slashes that he performs during Swift Slashes. These apply Attack Modifiers such as lifesteal, Shieldbreaker, Frostwulf's Skull, mana combustion and Thunderclaw if you have them.


Wow, late game this could rape near any hero, considering that you have high phyiscal damage, coupled with Abbysal Skull or something.

[LegoPirate]

Wow, late game this could rape near any hero, considering that you have high phyiscal damage, coupled with Abbysal Skull or something.

abysmal skull only works on base damage, so a whispering helm is a better idea.

[xjjjay]

Leap Style Abilities - Various travel-over-time abilities, such as the Valkyrie's Leap, Electrician's Static Grip possess a very misleading property. The location at which the heroes performing the abilities appear during the ability is inaccurate. They actually remain in the place where they initiated the ability until the ability completes. I.E. If Valkyrie Leaps as Pyromancer casts Dragon Fire on the location where she began the leap, Valkyrie will be hit and stunned by the spell as if she had not leapt at all. However once she lands, her position is updated.

I dont see the logic in why you would design it like this. I hope this isn't intentional, because it's just dumb. At least update the animations so they don't mislead you.

[iOP1]

Eldar Parasite - Mask of MadnessStacks With (sorry cbf looking for references) 'Slardar's Sprint' Unlike in Dota-
Aswell As Any Other Ability That would otherwise over Right it: Like Madmans Ulti-Not Equal to Trolls AttackSpeed Huh..

[iOP1]

Btw Good Looking List Guys.

[FlyWithVicky]

wait wait wait .. why would glacius's ice imprisonment even need to silence? isn't it suppose to be a stun? kinda jacked people can still cast spells in it ..

[Ecole]

Pebble's Chuck (Tiny's Toss) follows direct unit movement meaning if magebane uses blink and you happen to Chuck him a moment after, he will use blink but remain where you chucked him and see the animation of blink (the sphere like air that looks like a deny) (Confirmed while doing it with my brother. Blink went to cd)

[TheConquero1]

that's a bit obscure ecole

[ElementUser]

Mention that Keeper of the Forest's Root hits & reveals invisible units even if you don't have true sight on them

[Cryptys]

Does Electrician's Ult no longer remove Shrunken Head's immunity? I read a post here a few days ago with a guy complaining that it did. But I just tried to purge a bkb'd Soulstealer and still could not grip him afterward.

[ElementUser]

Does Electrician's Ult no longer remove Shrunken Head's immunity? I read a post here a few days ago with a guy complaining that it did. But I just tried to purge a bkb'd Soulstealer and still could not grip him afterward.

Shrunken Head is not dispellable as of 1.41. That's why your thread is closed xD

[ElementUser]

Contrary to popular belief, Counter Attack does not block/evade the attack when it procs, it simply enables Swiftblade to attack the enemy with his regular attack (without resetting his attack cooldown or slowing down his movement speed).

Oh and Swiftblade activates Counter Attack on targetted spells too........HMMMMMMM

Well editing this in the 1st post :)

[TheConquero1]

i wish more mods would do my work for me so i can just sit here and sponge credit ^_^

[Anghkor]

http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/cursed-ground.png
Voodoo Jester - Cursed Ground - This ability cannot be dispelled by any debuff removing abilities. Magic immunity will prevent the damage.
Unlike the DotA equivalent, this actually CAN be dispelled from a hero. I have first-hand experience with Electrician's self-purge, and the rest are unconfirmed at this time.

[Barahng]

Webbed Shot is only considered physical when on auto. Manually casting/orbwalking will be considered magical for all intents and purposes.

[TheConquero1]

Unlike the DotA equivalent, this actually CAN be dispelled from a hero. I have first-hand experience with Electrician's self-purge, and the rest are unconfirmed at this time.

Just tested this now in response to your post, electrician's purge failed to remove Cursed Ground (also tested Accursed Fire Shield's dispel, also failed to dispel)


Webbed Shot is only considered physical when on auto. Manually casting/orbwalking will be considered magical for all intents and purposes.

I am aware, I would suspect most people realize this/have web on auto anyways by the time this information is needed.

[StealthFire]

one of the largest misconceptions, perhaps, is image mechanics. so far we know that all or most orbs work, and perhaps images also inherit non-stat damage/armor

[Barahng]

I am aware, I would suspect most people realize this/have web on auto anyways by the time this information is needed.

This is somewhat common knowledge, but so is a lot of other information in your post. I wouldn't be so quick to assume the majority of people already know that however, ignorant as they are.

[TheConquero1]

alright sold.

[Froozog]

With Swiftblade's counterattack, does it cause damage (at range) when it proc's against a ranged enemies ranged attack or direct spells? Or do you kind just see Swift do the animation...

Edit: Ok so I just read the counterattack tooltip and it's only intended for melee attacks. Is the proc on direct spell casts a bug then?

[iareownage]

Thanks, this guide was very helpful.

[Ghork]

http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/taunt.png
Taunt - This ability is physical and penetrates spell immunity. Also breaks invisibility of any invisible units caught in its radius.

Technically it doesn't reveal anything, however they'll be forced to attack, and once they attack legionaire they'll be visible.

if you taunt and run away fast enough so that the stealthed target will never be able to hit you, he wont be revealed

[ElementUser]

That's why it breaks invisibility in that way...it never directly said it revealed them, at all

[TheConquero1]

the addition of the invisibility part was done by a mod, not myself

AND I THINK I KNOW WHO IT WAS TOO! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

yes i am aware it only breaks as a result of causing said invisible unit to attack you thus breaking their invis through an attack order

[Jager]

Glacius's hero page (http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=12) says that ice imprisonment is supposed to silence the target. But the as the list says it doesn't(it's got a ministun though). Are they going to buff it to silence or is this an error?

[Whitesock]

Does Swiftblade's bladestorm still let him attack mechanical units while he is using this ability? So far I've found that it does not.

[Jager]

Does Swiftblade's bladestorm still let him attack mechanical units while he is using this ability? So far I've found that it does not.
No it doesn't, but in DotA it would let him(or rather let Juggernaught). The Dev's might fix the discrepency eventually. They plan to for towers(and hopefully all buildings like DotA).

[Idejder]

Glacius's hero page (http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=12) says that ice imprisonment is supposed to silence the target. But the as the list says it doesn't(it's got a ministun though). Are they going to buff it to silence or is this an error?



revealed="true"
immobilized="true"
disarmed="true"
frozen="true"
silenced="false"


The website just pulls the strings, not the true or false part.

[Jager]

revealed="true"
immobilized="true"
disarmed="true"
frozen="true"
silenced="false"
The website just pulls the strings, not the true or false part.
Well I hope that it will someday! Or rather, why is the string there for the spell if it's doesn't do anything? You don't go around putting silence="false" on all abilities that don't silence do you? :confused:

[Kwaurtz]

Puppet Masters puppet is lethal through Accursed's ultimate.

[Whitesock]

No it doesn't, but in DotA it would let him(or rather let Juggernaught). The Dev's might fix the discrepency eventually. They plan to for towers(and hopefully all buildings like DotA).

Well I hope they fix this then because it helped a huge amount for being competative near a tower during the mid game push phase.

[Brale]

i think you can remove the last thing for arachna. i believe they fixed in a previous patch so it follows units that are temp immune, like blink/mag stun etc.

[assembly]

Well I hope that it will someday! Or rather, why is the string there for the spell if it's doesn't do anything? You don't go around putting silence="false" on all abilities that don't silence do you? :confused:

Object Oriented programming artifact most likely. While all spells are 'spells', they may be doing inheritance of some sort where by default a class of spells will have a feature and you want to make exceptions to the rule.

Just a guess tho.

[Jager]

Object Oriented programming artifact most likely. While all spells are 'spells', they may be doing inheritance of some sort where by default a class of spells will have a feature and you want to make exceptions to the rule.

Just a guess tho.
Ah k that makes sense. Thanks. :)

[Jake]

Accursed - Flame Consumption - Any source of damage that would kill you from above 400 health will do just that, KILL YOU, Flame Consumption will not trigger automatically. You must be under 400 health and take damage for it to automatically trigger.This means also if you have 401 hp and you recieve 200 dmg hit you have 201 hp but ulti will not activate untill you recieve damage again.

[TheConquero1]

Puppet Masters puppet is lethal through Accursed's ultimate.

I will investigate this... in the morning.

[StiXz]

webbed shot doesent slow targest with magic immune.
so that it cant be "cast" on them on auto is fine to mention, but you should also mention that the slow effect would apply

[StiXz]

ow and also.. After the buff, I seem to never be able to blink (any) out of strings.
So I think afer the rework of strings the string section should be looked at.

[Blet1]

nullfire blade does kill malphas (hellbringers ulti ) however it says here it doesnt , which is wrong

[TheConquero1]

Puppet Masters puppet is lethal through Accursed's ultimate.


I tested this for about fifteen minutes under different circumstances and could not kill Accursed through his ultimate with the puppet.



I have also completely removed the section where I displayed "supposedly fixed/changed" issues, since people keep skipping the part where I said they had been fixed/changed and assumed I was still making the claim.

[Chillaxed]

I tested this for about fifteen minutes under different circumstances and could not kill Accursed through his ultimate with the puppet.Ok, I haven't tested this and can't right now (@work) but I reckon it kills Accursed only if a single blow to the puppet takes Accursed from above the ulti-threshold to zero. If so, it's nothing special as that is always the case.

[ElementUser]

As of patch 0.1.51, Swiftblade's Counterattack will no longer proc off spells. :(

[adrift]

Demented Shamans heal is physical. It goes through magic immunity and is not reduced by magic resist. It IS reduced by armor. It does not go through Sol's Blessing.

The bouncing part of it is completely based on friendly creeps/heroes. Healing a single friendly creep/hero inside a wave of enemy creeps/heroes does no more than healing a single friendly with nothing else around.

[MicoBeast]

pestilnce can ulti a catapult for faster takedown!

[Est0]

Swiftblade now dispells debuffs and buffs on casting Blade Frenzy.

[ElementUser]

Updated

[KaiStarkk]

TurpinoS could be right here considering this is how the move scales throughout the game.

In DotA the attacks were his normal attack, so armor degen builds were common.
Now armor degen is made useful by still allowing the debufs from things like shieldbreaker to be placed in the in-between attacks if I'm not mistaken.

[Magnets1]

I'm quite sure that wildsoul bear can't grab runes, anyone know for sure?

[Lucretius]

Runes - Player Controlled Units - All summoned units ie Malphas, Hellhounds, Booboo can pick up runes. Any unit controlled by a player can pick up runes, including couriers and creeps dominated via Whispering Helm.

Is this still accurate? I think in a recent patch they made it such that you can't bottle Runes using a Courier. Err... I guess that's kinda different. Also, Bearludon can't do anything with runes I'm pretty sure.

[ElementUser]

Nope. Edited.

This is all common knowledge to me; there are actually many more "weird" things that happen (but isn't strange at all if you look into the code)

[Vulpes]

:bloo: Blood Crazy is an unremovable Debuff now (at least that was said in the Patch Notes)

I'd also add :phar: Hellfire not being able to hit Invisible Units (that aren't seen),
I've seen many ppl activating it to catch that low HP Nighthound.

[haschisch]

keepers ulti hits invisible units is a common misconception too.
it does not.

[wads]

is soul reapers ult true damage? can you cast it on someone with magic immunity? can you stack magic armor so that it can only kill you at a lower hp?

[ElementUser]

is soul reapers ult true damage? can you cast it on someone with magic immunity? can you stack magic armor so that it can only kill you at a lower hp?

Magic damage. You can cast it on a magic immune unit, but he'll only receive the stun effect.

Yes the enemy can get magic armor to mitigate the damage done from his Ultimate.

[Simo66]

Just out of curiosity, you say legionaires taunt breaks invisibility, is this like a ward/dust effect, or simply because the invisible unit starts attacking, which breaks said invis?

Also, as the taunt skill is physical, if you have void talisman activated when legionaire taunts, does it affect you?

[ElementUser]

It's because the unit is forced to break invisibility with an attack, so it doesn't reveal until after the unit reaches its attack point.

The taunt skill still works on the enemy if you have Void Talisman on, it's just that they won't actually attack you (they'll still "attempt" to though). You can still drag melee units around for the duration of Taunt

[Simo66]

Hmm, that kind of sucks, you'd think physical immunity would make you immune to physical skills' effects, such as that, such as magic immunity makes you immune to magic skills... oh well, what can you do...

[ElementUser]

Hmm, that kind of sucks, you'd think physical immunity would make you immune to physical skills' effects, such as that, such as magic immunity makes you immune to magic skills... oh well, what can you do...

No it's not that, it's cause the target type is True & the state type is True (for enemies)

[Simo66]

Oh, one other thing, if you have void talisman activated, and invite activated that breaks on attack, when legionaire taunts you an you attempt to attack, but cannot due to void talisman, will that still break invisibility?

[ElementUser]

Oh, one other thing, if you have void talisman activated, and invite activated that breaks on attack, when legionaire taunts you an you attempt to attack, but cannot due to void talisman, will that still break invisibility?

No, but the unit will still attempt to attack & move around with Legionnaire

[resp]

Voodoo Jester - Cursed Ground - This ability cannot be dispelled by any debuff removing abilities. Magic immunity will prevent the damage.

afaik geomancer's removes this. at least last time I used it I remember it did. Am not at a HoN PC atm to test this, but Im pretty sure :/
edit: tested it and its like you said :(

[Vulpes]

You cannot disassemble the following Items: :IronShield:, :BarbedArmor:, :KuldrasSheepstick:, :Wingbow:, :Doombringer:

[Lii1]

Another one:

Swiftblade - Blade Frenzy:
This does NOT make you invulnerable to physical damage, level 25 heroes WONT run from you if you do it and it deals LESS DPS then if you auto attack in Late game (if you're not really crappy farmed). Thus running into 3 heroes with it is not to recommend in lategame ;)

So true, however it doesn't make the spell useless.. I love to run away with it.. magic immune ftw!

[MacroHard]

Common myth: Savage Mace's bonus proc deals true damage.

This is incorrect. It is a separate instance of physical damage.

[ArcGuardian]

what happened when Leg activates Void then Taunt units? (I think it is obvious that they cannot hit him, but I'm curious if it may trigger helix :P due to the attack command)

For some reason, I think Puppet Show can be broken upon casting spell? I've played Puppet thousand times (yeah, a bit exaggerating :P ), and I'm pissed off because the enemy was able to break free from show (lv4) prematurely. I once experience a Show-ed Cronos leaping away -.-"
Hold also breaks when the unit moves too far away (i.e Holding a leaping Valkyrie, not sure about the distance, though)

FYI: I play an old version... it seems 1.66 if i'm not mistaken...

[Tape]

what happened when Leg activates Void then Taunt units? (I think it is obvious that they cannot hit him, but I'm curious if it may trigger helix :P due to the attack command)


It simply activates Void Talisman and when he Taunts he gets the +Armor buff but enemies will not attack him because of the Talisman.

Basically they cancel each other out, however, the taunted enemies will still follow him, just not attack.

[Abstrakten]

Deadwoods ulti being physical thus hitting through magic immunity, like swiftblade's frenzy and Predators stonehide. It is therefor also reduced by armor and not magic armor.

[Hippie]

The statement about Accursed's Flame Consumption is no longer valid - it will not longer trigger automatically regardless.

[ElementUser]

Moved out of Guides & Lists as it's not that up to date

[SmurfinBird]

http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/blood-crazy.png
Blood Hunter - Blood Crazy - This is a buff. Attempting to purge it from an ally with Protective Charm, Cleansing Shock or Fire Shield has no effect, the target retains the damage boost and remains silenced, Protective Charm WILL stop the damage per second.

It can be dispelled from enemies.



Has this been changed? I recall BH's silence being removed but the damage buff remaining when using nullfire on a target.

Another query; could this be alphabetized?

EDIT: Should of read last post. Should this be in the list below FAQs then?

[theli]

Has this been changed? I recall BH's silence being removed but the damage buff remaining when using nullfire on a target.
was changed for a while, its now 2 states (one buff and one debuff), so that you can purge buff (dmg) from enemies and debuff (silence) from allies