The official "STRONG LANE COMBOS" thread!

[RadicalEdwrd]

Picking and structuring a well balanced team is one of the most important parts of playing Heroes of Newerth. However, in most average skilled pubs (1450-1650 PSR) a well coordinated, strong lane that plays well early game and completely shuts down their laning opponents can dramatically increase their own team's chances at winning -- pubs have a harder time recovering from strong lanes since they can be demoralized so easily by a strong early performance.

I would like this thread to not be full of spam posts that only post lists of portraits. This is meant to be something of a community compounded guide so there should be a brief explanation attached to each combo explaining why it works so well!! New players come here to learn, don't assume they know "the obvious"!!

Definition of a Strong Lane: A lane that forces the enemy to play overly cautious through extensive harassment or the threat of a fatal combo attack if successfully landed, causing your opponents to get a ridiculously crappy farm while you reap the rewards of free creep waves. Common strong lanes are usually lanes with two heroes that both have stuns or long range spammable nukes/DoT spells that are hard to avoid and easily whittle away at their laning opponents' health.

:jera::glac: ~ Jeraziah & Glacius
Recently I played as Glacius with a Jeraziah in the lane. Glacius's mana aura is incredibly helpful to not only his entire team, but especially to Jeraziah early on. Using the combo of stun + heal, you can easily shut down an enemy lane with this combo (melee carries beware). Also, in addition to good offensive capability, this lane is also incredibly hard to kill with Glacius's stun being used defensively and Jeraziah's heal and magic immunity charm!

Feel free to post more combos. :)

THE List of Strong Combos:

:magm::pyro: ~ Magmus & Pyro
-Aggressive double stun lane.
-Forces enemy to play cautiously to avoid Magus -> Pyro double stun.
-Allows Magmus an unhindered farm to acquire blink key (2150 gold) as early as possible.

:slit::swif: ~ Slither & Swiftblade
-Aggressive high DPS lane.
-Forces enemy to play cautiously to avoid Slither slows -> Swiftblade spin.
-Allows Swiftblade an unhindered farm to start beefing up early on.
-Difficult to gank (wards to spot ganks from flank and Swiftblade's high DPS spin combined with magic immunity along multiple slows from Slither make it easy to escape).

:engi::hamm: ~ Engineer & Hammerstorm
-Aggressive double stun lane.
-Forces the enemy to play cautiously in order to avoid an incredibly deadly double ranged AoE stun combo from two incredibly pissed off Scotsmen.
-Allows Hammerstorm an unhindered free farm to start beefing up early on.
-Difficult to gank due to two AoE stuns, Hammerstorm's Galvanize ability giving a speed boost to escape any trouble, and Engineers turret able to watch the flank for an upcoming gank indefinitely.
-Double beard lane for maximum manliness.

:blac::thun: ~ Blacksmith & Thunderbringer
-Harassment heavy double nuke lane.
-Blacksmith's magic armor reduction combined with his own & Thunderbringer's nuke spam ensures that enemy heroes will be consistently and heavily harassed. We're talking almost instantaneous 600+ burst damage at level 5. Disgusting.

:pupp::deme: ~ Puppet Master & Demented Shaman
-Harassment & CC heavy hard hitting double ranged lane.
-Puppet's Puppet Show syncs well with Demented Shaman's heal, forcing the enemy to close in and attack creep waves in range of a massive heal nuke.
-Severe amounts of Crowd Control, DSham's heals and two fairly quick footed ranged heroes make this lane difficult to gank successfully.

:poll::pebb: ~ Pollywog Priest & Pebbles
-Incredibly strong double stun lane.
-Pollywog Priest's Tongue Tied ensures that Pebbles will land his stun -> throw combo. First blood is guaranteed in this lane unless your opponents play overly cautious.

:witc::pebb: ~ Witch Slayer & Pebbles
-See above, yet another easy-to-land ranged stun that ensures will land his stun -> throw combo.

:slit::pest: ~ Slither & Pestilence
-Harassment heavy AoE stun lane.
-Slither's Toxic Spray (not wards) allow Pestilence to close in and land an easy impale. A well placed Toxic Spray can hit both of your opponents at the same time, and a quick followup by Pestilence can ensure that they are both stunned as well.

:blac::hell: ~ Blacksmith & Hellbringer
-Double magic armor reduction lane.
-Severe magic armor reduction leads to gross amounts of magic damage from both Blacksmith and Hellbringer's spells.

:glac::dead: ~ Glacius & Deadwood
-Easy stun -> root combo.
-Mana regeneration from Glacius along with his stun allows Deadwood to excel at harassment. Landing a Glacius stun followed by a Deadwood root is fatal after the second occurrence.
-Deadwood can get an easy free farm to start roaming and ganking early on with beefy items.

:pred::pyro: ~ Predator & Pyromancer
-Incredibly dangerous burst damage lane.
-Predator leaps, Pyro follows up with an easy stun, enjoy your first blood.
-Forces the enemy to play cautiously, allowing Predator to get a free farm early game.

:vind::bloo: ~ Vindicator & Blood Hunter
-Strong harassment lane.
-Blood Hunter's DoT combined with Vindicator's AoE DoT ensures heavy DoT damage while disallowing a specific target from casting spells and negating Vindicator's DoT.
-Gives Blood Hunter an INCREDIBLY EASY free farm early on to start beefing up and ganking.

:mali::hell: ~ Maliken & Hellbringer
-Heavy harassment lane.
-Hellbringer's DoT ensures heavy harassment of the enemy, while his Life Void reduces the magical armor of your opponents, allowing Maliken's Sword Throw to deal additional damage and finish off weak targets.
-Allows Maliken an easy free farm as an item dependent semicarry.

:plag::vind: ~ Plague Rider & Vindicator
-Strong double ranged spell harassment lane.
-Two AoE spells that deal a considerable amount of damage used by heroes that excel at harassing their laning opponents. Consider your enemy shut down when they face this combo.

[Sauron`]

postin the obvious
:pyro: + :magm:

double stun. very common lane in comp. games

[Trysaeder]

:slit::swif:
Level 1 wards = perma 10% slow + block.

You don't have to sacrifice a ranged support like with :elec:

[Zekkei]

:engi::hamm: or :blac::thun:

[yyr_]

:pupp: :deme:

I think is the best laning combo in the game. Massive range advantage with 2 brilliant animations and high base damage. Demented supplies heals and if the creeps surround a hero a massive nuke. He also brings a fat slow/stun to the combination.

Puppet has two disables with great synergy to dementeds, and purely by him winning this lane he will win you the game.

This lane is borderline unbeatable due to disables and heals with range advantage, and it guarantees an easy farm on puppet which is game breaking post laning phase.

Im so shocked nobody has ever posted this :P

[iGame]

Bsmith and TB, would love to try that lane ;D

[yyr_]

:poll: :pebb: is a fun one, not sure if id call it one of the best though but depending on other teams heroes its harsh.

Toss polly
He shackles there stunner
Pebbles avalanches after net wears off
Lightning for the kill.

5-6 seconds of disable and alot of nuke damage. Very easy to instegiate because of throw.

[PerfectBlue]

:deme::pest:

[Mepp]

:plag: + anything

[Vulpes]

:jera::glac:

Wasting a Babysitter on another Support, plus saying Glacs Aura (Hint: GLOBAL) makes it "even better". No, it's not good.

For your usual Baddie Pubs, the following is a GENIUS STRONG Lane: 1 Range, 1 Melee. At least 1 Stun.

Advanced Rule:

1) Pick one: :blac: :pred: :mali: :swif: :behe: :magm: :phar: :madm: :pest: :hamm: :zeph: :dead: :pebb: | :accu: :jera:
2) And another: :glac: :poll: :plag: :witc: :deme: :slit: :vood: :hell: :pyro: :nymp: | :fors: :pupp: :engi: :defi: :valk: :corr: :soulr:

Pair 2nd Part of 1) only with 2nd Part of 2) (Feel free to Pair first Part of 1) with 2nd Part of 2)) - You just got yourself a decent Lane.

E: Have never seen Pebbles as a strong Laner. Oh well, he got a Stun I guess.

[yyr_]

Vulpes add pebbles to 1) i)

[Blazinghand]

I saw a :hell: :pebb: lane work out pretty well in a game. It takes a few levels to get off the ground, but then hellbringer would drop the magic armor into the negatives and pebbles would deal a ton of magic damage.

Might want to add :keep: to the list of melee babysitters there.

[RadicalEdwrd]

Wasting a Babysitter on another Support, plus saying Glacs Aura (Hint: GLOBAL) makes it "even better". No, it's not good.

For your usual Baddie Pubs, the following is a GENIUS STRONG Lane: 1 Range, 1 Melee. At least 1 Stun.

Advanced Rule:

1) Pick one: :blac: :pred: :mali: :swif: :behe: :magm: :phar: :madm: :pest: :hamm: :zeph: :dead: :pebb: | :accu: :jera:
2) And another: :glac: :poll: :plag: :witc: :deme: :slit: :vood: :hell: :pyro: :nymp: | :fors: :pupp: :engi: :defi: :valk: :corr: :soulr:

Pair 2nd Part of 1) only with 2nd Part of 2) (Feel free to Pair first Part of 1) with 2nd Part of 2)) - You just got yourself a decent Lane.

E: Have never seen Pebbles as a strong Laner. Oh well, he got a Stun I guess.
The reason Jerry + Glacius works well is because it has good offensive capability as well as good defensive capability. It's very difficult to kill and very difficult to avoid a heal nuke once you're stunned by Glacius and Jeraziah comes tromping in. It's not wasting a babysitter on support if you put it in your dangerous lane to go up against their carry + babysitter, since Jeraziah can easily dominate the carry with Glacius's help if it's a melee carry. With invul charm + heal and Glacius' imprisonment/AoE slow its easy to avoid even some of the most dangerous ganks as well, if you don't completely turn them around yourself with both Jeraziah and Glacius's ultimates stacked on top of one other. In later phases Glacius can blink in with Charm on, imprison himself and ult away without any worries as well -- the combo works well at almost all phases of the game.

[True`Hero]

Bah!

:blac:+:hell: = retardedly epic hurasment lane with huge dmg due to - magic armor early.

[ImANinja09]

postin the obvious is fun...

:pred::pyro: = pretty common combo with our friends... Pred with Early boots + proper stun from Pyro on a soft hero = easy FB

:andr::arac: = nope no aura stacking anymore... so yeah.. pretty basic slow + stun lane there...

:vind::bloo: = Blood Crazy + Sage's Lore = silence with damage per second + get hurt while being silenced

:blac::vood:

[Bloodbowl10]

:andr::arac::moon: = OMG stacking auras?? :)))


They don't stack anymore.

[ImANinja09]

They don't stack anymore.

oh good. I forgot...... <____> this is something very very good.. no wonder I don't see those stupid aura lineups anymore...

thanks for informing me...

[Lightening]

:nymp: + :swif::pebb::thun::moon:

Spamming your nukes when your lvl 4 is so much fun.

[LightRain]

Why don't you spend two minutes in practice mode before you post stupid misinformation?

:arac: aura stacks with :moon: aura stacks with :andr: aura
you just don't see it often because it's an awkward team.

[EGNesTea420]

:pupp: :deme:

I think is the best laning combo in the game. Massive range advantage with 2 brilliant animations and high base damage. Demented supplies heals and if the creeps surround a hero a massive nuke. He also brings a fat slow/stun to the combination.

Puppet has two disables with great synergy to dementeds, and purely by him winning this lane he will win you the game.

This lane is borderline unbeatable due to disables and heals with range advantage, and it guarantees an easy farm on puppet which is game breaking post laning phase.

Im so shocked nobody has ever posted this :P

Really the reason why no one uses that is it's just borderline unnecessary. You're better off using demented shaman on some melee hero that has a harder time taking care for it's self and using puppet to solo (as he is a very efficient solo hero). Sure, it's a great lane if you're only looking at laning but looking at the entire game it's sort of pointless.

If I were to put puppet with a babysitter I'd rather him go with :accu::jera: personally. That being said I don't think puppet should be put in a dual lane.


I found :dead::glac: a solid combo recently. Mana regen for deadwood, an easy stun > root combo and some high damage and harass.

[Lightening]

Why don't you spend two minutes in practice mode before you post stupid misinformation?

:arac: aura stacks with :moon: aura stacks with :andr: aura
you just don't see it often because it's an awkward team.
There auars stack, me and my friends do it sometimes. Its amazing the amount of dmg they do when there all 3 together. Get a Pestilence(something that can stun) and its pretty much gg.

PS: I haven't tried it since the patch.

[Lightening]

:pred::jera:
Good ol' Pred bombing.

[vidividi]

:slit::vind:

It's good because it prevents the enemy team from getting any creepkills.

[Timbo_]

:deme: + Everyone, except other support ;P
:plag: + Everyone, except other support ;P
:behe: + :vind: = just awesome... Behe blocks path and vindi harrass like hell... no fun against these two.
:wret: + :accu: = Fun game. Shield + Blink + Nuke etc
:soulr: + :accu: = Double Healer/Nuker
etc etc

[AAA_Boy]

:deme: + Everyone, except other support ;P
:plag: + Everyone, except other support ;P


Have you ever played a lane with or against glacius/demented or glacius/plague? I guess not=) Try those combos and laugh horribly when your combo completely annihalates you opponents.....

[Vulpes]

Have you ever played a lane with or against glacius/demented or glacius/plague? I guess not=) Try those combos and laugh horribly when your combo completely annihalates you opponents.....

Same case as with the aforementioned :jera::glac: or cheesy Lanes such as :hell::vind:.
Sure you can Harass a Lot, and will probably get superior CS. But you won't be able to use them at all. Wasted Supporters.

:mage::accu:

Too bad it's dual melee but the amount of harrass by the shielded magebane makes up for it.

[F1]

Same case as with the aforementioned :jera::glac: or cheesy Lanes such as :hell::vind:.
Sure you can Harass a Lot, and will probably get superior CS. But you won't be able to use them at all. Wasted Supporters.
The question, though is what lane is the "strongest" not what lanes will make use of your heroes full potential.

[FunkOff]

:fors::pebb:

:pyro::blac:

:zeph::nymp:

:slit::pand:

:magm::wret:

:pupp::dead: ( this one is just SICK but Dead must be Roaming )

[Vulpes]

The question, though is what lane is the "strongest" not what lanes will make use of your heroes full potential.

Guess what? The strongest Lane is not the one with the best CS, but the one that wins the Game for you.
:magm: :pyro: forces the enemies to play extremly cautious, gets good CS, offers great Teamfight Synergy. Strong Lane.
:mali: :hell: is a superb lane synergy, will dish out good damage while being almost unharassable, Maliken (SemiCarry) will get 'FreeFarm'.
:jera: :glac: is a mildly annoying lane that gets pretty good CS, but thats it. Jera will get good Farm, but he can't use it. At best decent.

Better example:
:pest: :plag: very good Lane with strong Harasser, high Damage output, Pest getting farmed etc. Yet you'll rather want
:pest: :deme: as a Lane. Why? While laning, they don't have any striking Synergy. Yet, the Lane is stronger - because it offers better Teamfights.

[SolasWay]

me and a friend had a really nice lane with :blac::swif:
stun and swirly

[RadicalEdwrd]

Same case as with the aforementioned :jera::glac: or cheesy Lanes such as :hell::vind:.
Sure you can Harass a Lot, and will probably get superior CS. But you won't be able to use them at all. Wasted Supporters.
I still don't understand how it's wasted support if these guys lane against your opponents short/safe lane. Hellbringer + Vindicator can prevent a carry from getting farmed at all. That's not a waste. Who would you rather lane there?

I'm not trying to be confrontational Vulpes. I'm still learning HoN. Something beyond "its a waste of a support/babysitter because you're pairng two of them together" as an explanation for why such a lane is bad would be appreciated. Putting two strong laners against the enemy safe lane seems like anything BUT a waste, so...I remain confused.

Is it a waste because free farm goes to heroes that don't necessarily scale as hardcore with free farm as others? An early farmed Jeraziah (or any other support) can sport a lot of early support items that can make your team much more difficult to handle in a team fight...isn't that worth the free farm on a support character?

[LightRain]

There auars stack, me and my friends do it sometimes. Its amazing the amount of dmg they do when there all 3 together. Get a Pestilence(something that can stun) and its pretty much gg.

PS: I haven't tried it since the patch.
I verified that they stack in training mode before posting (something more people should do)

My friends and I used to love that set of three, but... that was in EM.


----


Vulpes, it's not "wasted support" if the purpose is to win the lane and more importantly, stop the opponent from winning the lane. Support is more than just helping the carries through the laning phase. Behemoth needs his portal key, Jereziah with a RoS or Nome's is way better for the team than a Jere with boots+powersupply, etc. You can't call the lane a waste until you see the rest of the team.

btw in GR tourney VIII, LAO sends Vindi+Behemoth mid to shut down PLageu+Chronos mid.

[jay`t]

:slit::pupp: in the hard lane is one of my favs cuz of the nasty harass + slither can go through the woods and gank mid while pup gets some solo lane experience



edit - did anyone else interpret the thread title as strong lane aka short lane combos? I was a bit surprised to see people listing pyro magmus and stuff hahah

[havoc]

:succ: + [:devo::arma::vood:]

Sleep + rot/quill spray/cursed ground; none of these break sleep but still do damage. Hilarious pair in pugs because while it's not particularly great, it's super awesome to make people very sad. If you get your quill spray to 3 or so and then sleep you can usually get it to 6 or 7 before sleep breaks :eek:

[Vulpes]

Is it a waste because free farm goes to heroes that don't necessarily scale as hardcore with free farm as others?

Precisely.
To put it simple: Having 50 CK on :glac: 10 Minutes in isn't half as good as 40 CK on :pupp:.


An early farmed Jeraziah (or any other support) can sport a lot of early support items that can make your team much more difficult to handle in a team fight...isn't that worth the free farm on a support character?Don't get me wrong: It is no horrible Lane. It just provides too less, and thus isn't STRONG. Compare :jera::glac: to :magm::pyro: -

:jera::glac:
- Harasses Well, almost no Killing Power
- Low Ganking prowess (If :glac: goes to gank Mid, :jera: has to Solo)
- :glac: needs no Items, :jera: needs an Item that comes in easy parts and can be farmed with a SemiCarry on Lane

:magm::pyro:
- Harasses slightly worse, incredible Killing power (at lvl3 can push a Hero from 100% to 0%)
- Strong Ganking (both Pyro + Magmus excel at it)
- Magmus needs a 2150 Item that comes as one block. Difficult to farm if you are not really allowed to take Last Hits

Of course lanes such as :hell: :vind: might work situationally (ex Enemies play Heavy Turtling with just 1 Hardcarry). But situational isn't STRONG.
The strongest Lanes need a Melee (Hatchet power), overall Lane Synergy,
most of the time at least one Stun & Teamfight Synergy as well.
:magm::pyro: control their Lane, instantly allow lots of Ganking, provide masses of Damage + 2 AoE Stuns for Teamfights.
:jera::glac: control their lane, .. are both pretty useful in Teamfights without any real synergy .. that's it.
I can explain to you why :magm::pyro: is better than :magm::tort:, :hamm::pyro: etc.. Can you tell me why :jera: in :jera::glac: is more useful than :magm:?

The strongest Lane would be something like :zeph: :hell: :ophe: anyways. Or :magm: :pyro: :temp: - you get the Picture.

[fasteddy]

plague + vindi

[LightRain]

:jera: :glac: has killing power. two slows, a hold, and a pure damage nuke. Glacius does way more damage with his attack now, so he can actually harass people low enough that a kill attempt will work, or at least drive them back.

:jera: may be better than :magm: when you pick jere as a partial counter to a -armour team, or to go well with your solo mid Defiler in a pushing team, if you have strong stuns on your other lane. It depends on team makeup.

Currently there are enough ranged that rape melee that you don't need the hatchet advantage so much. Puppet/Soul Reaper combo for example will harass any melee out of lane, hatchet be damned.

The stable strategy is to pair :magm: and :pyro: , make sure melee carries get a ranged babysit, etc. But to simple say "that lane is bad" without any qualifiers is imprecise.
You can say "that lane would only be run with a specific team makeup, and in pubs your team makeup is going to be all over the place, so it's better to focus on strong, self-contained lanes rather than overall synergy." That statement is true. But you can't just say "two supports in lane that aren't dedicated killers is wasted support", because that's not true, and I don't believe in feeding people watered-down information in the hopes that later they'll learn the real version.

[ElementUser]

:succ: + [:devo::arma::vood:]

Sleep + rot/quill spray/cursed ground; none of these break sleep but still do damage. Hilarious pair in pugs because while it's not particularly great, it's super awesome to make people very sad. If you get your quill spray to 3 or so and then sleep you can usually get it to 6 or 7 before sleep breaks :eek:

No, this is all false (except for the not-breaking Sleep part).

Mesmerize gives the target IndirectImmunity, which states the following:


<immunitytype name="IndirectImmunity" immune="DOT Splash"/>Devourer's Decay is a Magic DoT, so it will not do damage to the enemy Mesmerized target (but will still debuff the target with the slow).

Armadon's Spine Burst has the effect type "Physical Splash", so it will not damage the Mesmerized target nor apply the Spine Burst state to the Mesmerized target.

Voodoo Jester's Cursed Ground has 2 portions in the spell: a Magic DoT which is constant over the duration of the State and 3 instances of Magic damage, separated by 4 second intervals from the time when the State was applied. The Magic DoT effect will not damage the Mesmerized unit, but an instance of Magic damage will damage the target and wake the target up. The exception to this is when the Magic Damage Instance impacts the enemy close to the start of the Mesmerize state, which applies an Invulnerable state to the Mesmerized target for 0.9 seconds.

On-Topic: Succubus + Valkyrie/<Insert Hero with AoE Stun here>

Strong setup, but not really a good lane combo; rather, Succubus is a good gank-setup hero.

[Akingboy]

:pand: + :slit:
FB team, really powerfull... Trust me..

[Tripwyr]

Are you planning to update the original post with the combinations listed?

[Vulpes]

You can say "that lane would only be run with a specific team makeup, and in pubs your team makeup is going to be all over the place, so it's better to focus on strong, self-contained lanes rather than overall synergy." That statement is true. But you can't just say "two supports in lane that aren't dedicated killers is wasted support", because that's not true, and I don't believe in feeding people watered-down information in the hopes that later they'll learn the real version.

So I should not tell people that :nigh: is a pretty bad Mid Hero and they shouldn't use him,
but provide them with a two pages long essay on when he is doable Mid and what his Team needs to do for him to work,
pumping him full with information he won't need until at best 6 months later, where he'll have forgotten it anyways?

These are the Training Grounds. People have to learn Basic Rules - exceptions to the Rules may come a good bit later.
I prefer to tell people ":Marchers: first is bad" rather than ".. except when you are Swiftblade in a good Lane, or a Roamer, or ..",
since they won't be able to use this information anyways. Some day they will become better, watch competitive Games and ask:
"Why did Chu`go :Marchers: first" - but till then, they don't need to know the exceptions to the rule.

Oh, and if you call :jera::glac: a Lane with killing Power, EVERY Lane has it.
Their combo are 2 Slows, an IMMOBILIZE (1.5s) and 320 Damage at level 3.
:magm::pyro: are 2 Stuns (3.75-3.25s) and 316 Damage at level3. That sounds close.
Now, most of :jera::glac:s Damage comes from a Melee Range Spell with casting Time. So :glac: will have to set up, with Jera walking there.
:magm::pyro: doesn't have this problem, their Melee is instantly at his target, then Spells can be unloaded. This leads to a LOT more Autoattacks going in.
Hell, a :sand::deme: Combo has 2 Slows (later even a Stun) - not unlikely! - a 350+ Dmg "Nuke" at lvl3, and you wouldn't call that a Killer Lane.

[Neru]

:swif: + :pebb: is awesome. Chuck Swiftblade, stun enemy, swift spins.

[Vulpes]

Have fun surviving with your 0.26 Armor Pebbles in a Dual Melee Lane.
Besides, if you are in Range to Stun the Enemy, and Chuck Swift, you chucked Swift like.. 10 units.
Plus you won't have the Mana to Stun+Chuck until lvl5+ anyways, and there you can just solo People, no need for the :swif:.

[Babada]

Have fun surviving with your 0.26 Armor Pebbles in a Dual Melee Lane.
Besides, if you are in Range to Stun the Enemy, and Chuck Swift, you chucked Swift like.. 10 units.
Plus you won't have the Mana to Stun+Chuck until lvl5+ anyways, and there you can just solo People, no need for the :swif:.

Unless you do it like a decent pebbles and get bonus int to be able to combo earlier.

Tho I agree, it's not a good lane. It's a waste of pebbles full capability, a slither/dsham/glacius would be alot better to have on the lane for swiftblade.

[Neru]

Oh sorry, I totally forgot this was lanes T_T Was thinking of just fun/strong combos generally in game. Yeah just replace Pebbles with any ranged stunner/slower and you're set.

[RadicalEdwrd]

Are you planning to update the original post with the combinations listed?
If you'd like.

edit: @Vulpes, on Glacius/Jeraziah --

The one key feature you are overlooking about this lane is Glacius's regen aura allowing these heroes to use their spells far more often. The difference between a DSham + Sandwraith or Magmus + Pyro from Glacius + Jeraziah is two fold.

1) Neither of the aforementioned combinations possess the mana regeneration to consistently pepper the enemy with their harassment. The amount of damage between the aforementioned lanes when they combo their spells might be similar, but the amount of times they can combo their spells is dramatically less.
2) Magmus + Pyro or Sandwraith + DSham is easier to kill compared to Jeraziah + Glacius. This allows Jerry + Gla to harass with some serious balls, while other combos might have to be worried about slipping up.

I also believe that an early farmed Jeraziah that gets his mana ring out of the way early and moves onto other support items can easily change the outcome of several engagements. Early on, a farmed Jeraziah is going to have more influence over a half-farmed carry since Jeraziah's strength peaks far earlier. If you're going for a push centric strategy, a babysat Jeraziah would increase your push power IMMENSELY, since he'd be loaded up with support items far earlier than he normally would be.

I agree with your overall point (that a lane isn't utilized to its fullest when two heroes that don't strongly benefit from farm are present in a strong armed free farm lane), however, I disagree with your opinion specifically on Jerry + Gla because they're hard to kill, can dish out nuke damage more consistently than other combos without running OOM, and I because I believe that an early farmed Jeraziah can be stupidly detrimental to the opposing team.

[LightRain]

So I should not tell people that :nigh: is a pretty bad Mid Hero and they shouldn't use him,
but provide them with a two pages long essay on when he is doable Mid and what his Team needs to do for him to work,
pumping him full with information he won't need until at best 6 months later, where he'll have forgotten it anyways?

These are the Training Grounds. People have to learn Basic Rules - exceptions to the Rules may come a good bit later.
I prefer to tell people ":Marchers: first is bad" rather than ".. except when you are Swiftblade in a good Lane, or a Roamer, or ..",
since they won't be able to use this information anyways. Some day they will become better, watch competitive Games and ask:
"Why did Chu`go :Marchers: first" - but till then, they don't need to know the exceptions to the rule.

Oh, and if you call :jera::glac: a Lane with killing Power, EVERY Lane has it.
Their combo are 2 Slows, an IMMOBILIZE (1.5s) and 320 Damage at level 3.
:magm::pyro: are 2 Stuns (3.75-3.25s) and 316 Damage at level3. That sounds close.
Now, most of :jera::glac:s Damage comes from a Melee Range Spell with casting Time. So :glac: will have to set up, with Jera walking there.
:magm::pyro: doesn't have this problem, their Melee is instantly at his target, then Spells can be unloaded. This leads to a LOT more Autoattacks going in.
Hell, a :sand::deme: Combo has 2 Slows (later even a Stun) - not unlikely! - a 350+ Dmg "Nuke" at lvl3, and you wouldn't call that a Killer Lane.

"NH is very very hard to use and very situational. You will almost never run into the right situation to use him. He was seen once in competitive, by phe'V, who is better at HoN than almost anyone."

I KNOW what you prefer, because I see you do it. I just TOLD you what you prefer. I disagree with your preference. I think saying "You, personally, will never have a need for boots first until you don't need this forum anymore, it only ever really works on Swiftblade anyway" is a short and simple way to get the point across.

If you get creeps on a target and Healing Wave, that;s a kill. If you do it in lane, I guess you got a lane kill. Huh?! The reason you don't call that a "kill lane" is the kill isn't reliable.
Glacius slow has a huuuuuge range that easily lets him slow, move up and hold, Jere heal, jere cleaveslow while both heroes attack. It's not as reliable as Magmus/Pyro and the team you would pick them on is not very good right now, but that doesn't mean they have zero killing power.

@edward: Vulpes already point out that since Glacius aura is global, you can put him in one lane and jere in another and jere still gets the benefit.

[RadicalEdwrd]

@edward: Vulpes already point out that since Glacius aura is global, you can put him in one lane and jere in another and jere still gets the benefit.
Glacius's aura is not the only thing that syncs well with Jeraziah, however -- if you throw him across the map in another lane Jeraziah won't reap the rewards of the synergy between his and Glacius's skillsets. Glacius is one of the best early game CC heroes, meaning that he basically guarantees a coordinated Jeraziah to land his heal nuke, which the same cannot be said for many other heroes (puppet comes to mind, though).

All of their skills work really well together. Glacius's long range AoE non-scaling slow (max movement speed debuff at rank 1) combined with his long range long duration DoT/stun make landing a nuke with Jeraziah absolute child's play. Furthermore, both heroes have defensive spells -- Jeraziah has a magic immunity charm, while Glacius has a damage reduction on his Ice Imprisonment. When well coordinated, this makes them hard to gank -- enemies can focus on Jeraziah, and Glacius can simply throw down his imprisonment on Jerry while Jerry's heal recharges and he's still free to cast a charm on either himself or Glacius as needed, taking reduced damage the entire time until he can heal again. Finally, both their ults and defensive spells means that they can potentially turn around an overconfident, sloppy gank attempt when used in conjunction with one another. Jeraziah throws his charm down on Glacius, Glacius shields himself, both players pop the ult, and massacre everything if they position themselves well.

The aura is not the only asset that Glacius offers to Jeraziah, so placing him on the other side of the map "because Jeraziah can still get the aura since it's global" is a mistake, in my opinion, since they work so damn well together. Mind you, there are other combos that work well too involving Glacius and Jeraziah with separate heroes that can all be put on the same team, but I don't believe these combos discount the viability of Glacius + Jeraziah at all.

[Vulpes]

The Ultimates won't help in the laning Phase. They also got no real Synergy (if anything, Charm + Glac Ult got a Synergy).
What exactly does your :jera: :glac: Lane do better than ex a :jera: :pupp: lane with :glac: :swif: bot? What is :glac: doing in a Push Strat, anyways..

:glac: strengths are the Following:
- Reliable Slow and Immobilize to set up unreliable Stuns/Damage Spells
- Needs no Items, thus you can let the other Guy in Lane farm
- Strong Ganker
- Global Mana Regen
- Strong AoE Ult for Turtling Teams

:jera: uses the following
- Slow/Immobilize to set up Heal (which will burn your Mana dry after using it once-twice)
- Gets his Items faster! Is a Support, bad Luck
- Can't afford to Solo vs 2, :glac: won't be able to Gank early
- :glac: could be anywhere for this to benefit him
- Can Charm, and can also Ult to win Teamfights even harder.

You know, the really useful stuff (Mana Aura, Charm->Ult Synergy) is applied even if they are in different Lanes.

To repeat myself: It is no terrible Lane, rather decent.
But it's no Lane that I'd pick towards to*,
thus it has no place in a STRONG LANE thread.

*Hey we got Jera, lets pick Glacius for a strong Lane!

[Kattou]

Remember having a really strong lane with :glac::pebb:.

It's pretty much the same as :poll::pebb:, the ice imprisonment allows for an easy 1-2 combo, and the aura also helps a lot for Pebbles because of him being very pressed for mana in the beginning.

[DeviousAlpha]

Since he was rebuffed, madman is a strong dual laner.

:slit:+:madm: is a lane to be feared. Stun, Stalk, Slow, Ward harass, Toxicity harass, babysitting madman(a solid carry). This lane needs to be in the strong list, it really is exceptionally good. Great synergy into later game too.

Another lane:
:pand:+:deme: -> Flick into creep wave (give -armor). Heal does physical damage. Slow, Cannonball, demented harass is excellent, good synergy into later game. Another lane where a semi-carry (panda) should get easy farm.

[RadicalEdwrd]

To repeat myself: It is no terrible Lane, rather decent.
But it's no Lane that I'd pick towards to*,
thus it has no place in a STRONG LANE thread.

*Hey we got Jera, lets pick Glacius for a strong Lane!
Point taken Vulpes. Again, not trying to be confrontational or anything, just discussing. :)

edit: Best to put Glacius with a strong solo lane so that he can roam or something?

[l34Um1]

Me and my competent team mate. The heroes dont matter.

[Isin]

:pred::pyro: ~ Predator & Pyromancer
-Incredibly dangerous burst damage lane.
-Pyro lands his stun, Predator follows up with a slow, enjoy your first blood.
-Forces the enemy to play cautiously, allowing Predator to get a free farm early game.

Don't you think it should be the other way around?

Anyways...

:soulr::accu: very hard to kill, very sustainable with two heals, and a lot of magic-based harassment

:vood::blac: double stun, burst damage from blacksmith increases damage of cursed ground, and his DoT reduces their magic armor

:pand::nymp: double aoe stun, allows panda to use his skills often with constant mana replenishment, high burst damage in aoe, flick/doublestun/heal combo can easily score a kill and often a double

:deme::pest: strong harassment from dsham lets pesti farm, physical burst damage lane, slow/stun blah blah blah... it really gets good at 6 when both heroes have -armor abilities and physical burst damage and can absolutely wreck both enemy heroes

:blac::tort: high magic burst lane, -MA from blacksmith + double stun and nuke, tort is good for harassing

:devo::nymp: supplies pudgey with mana to hook constantly, heal to keep his hp up from rot, extremely good kill combo (especially in a defensive lane near the tower, you can trap the opponents). for what it lacks in harassment it makes up for in kill power.

:arac::witc: overwhelming harass lane. you might not think so at first, but this is an extremely good lane combo. very good mana control as well
:arac::slit: same as above, but with more kill power sacrificing mana control

[bongotrumma]

Pebbles + Tort = Very nice lane(I guess it's almost the same like Pyro and Mag) Had a Pred in the other team ragequit because of how much he got killed.

[Isin]

Pebbles + Tort = Very nice lane(I guess it's almost the same like Pyro and Mag) Had a Pred in the other team ragequit because of how much he got killed.

Pebbles/Tort can fail very easily because both stuns can be dodged. Missing just one of the two can throw your combo (ha ha get it throw? pebbles? HAR HAR HAR)

[yyr_]

A very fun lane, not saying its overly strong but depending on skill level of players its hilarious is:

:nymp: :devo:

Unlimited hooking to tower. Unlimited rotting due to heal.

Hook into tower, nymph drops a heal at your feet, you block and rot. Insane damage and due to nymphs free mana strat you can keep rinse and repeating.

Note: This lane is only good if they arent +) but its alot of fun to play and good practice for your hooking.

[Heavenlapse]

:valk::phar:

Free arrows

[InFlames]

Electrician + Swiftblade is a gunrateed kill early on.

[RadicalEdwrd]

I'll continue to update more hero combos tomorrow sometime when I'm bored.

@Isin: Fixed the Pred/Pyro.

[Vulpes]

Again, not trying to be confrontational or anything, just discussing. :)

Am I talking too aggressive? Or excessively flaming people? :( That sounds like you fear me or something.


edit: Best to put Glacius with a strong solo lane so that he can roam or something?Either that (ex he lanes well with :valk:), or simply lane him as a pure Babysitter & go Gank after your Lane has been Ganked.
So to speak: Your Mid comes Ganking, you kill one & push one down to 50% HP, Carry takes his Freefarm and you just leave your Lane for a bit.
Feeds the Carry a bit of XP, the 50% Guy fears you sitting in the Jungle (=Freefarm for Carry) and you can kill the enemy Mid now.
It IS pretty difficult to find 'the ultimate Lane/Playstyle early' for Glacius, which imo is a good Part of why he is underpicked.

[Mousie1]

:slit: + anything is pretty much an awsome lane
imo slither is the best laning hero in the game for getting first blood
I dont go for wards myself just spray and passive = crazy damage early on

[LightRain]

I dunno, I'd put him second to maybe Swiftblade or Panda.
Which of course is why :slit: :swif: / :slit: :pand: is so strong (although I think :plag: :swif: is actually stronger than :slit: :swif: )

[Desu]

Vindicator plus pretty much anyone.

[Decency]

Carry Lane:
:deme:+:pest: = Minus armor and physical damage combination.
:deme:+:pand: = Minus armor/physical damage/push into creeps for heal.
:deme:+:zeph: = Physical damage/push into creeps for heal.
:nymp:+:madm: = Madman's skills do huge damage when fed mana.
:mage:+:vind: = Mana Drain to allow freefarm
:mage:+:witc: = Mana Drain to allow freefarm
:hell:+:mali: = Minus Magic Armor + Magic Damage/Slow/Leap all in one.
:hell:+:pred: = Minus Magic Armor + Magic Damage/Slow/Leap all in one.
:hell:+:chro: = Minus Magic Armor + Magic Damage/Slow/Leap all in one.
:hell:+:sand: = Minus Magic Armor + Magic Damage/Slow/Speed all in one.
:glac:+:swif: = Freeze + Spin is deadly, plus slow if needed.
:poll:+:swif: = Hold + Spin.
:accu:+:pupp: = Puppet doesn't die.
:accu:+:corr: = CD doesn't die.

:plag:+Carry = Deny exp + pull/stack creeps so they're always at tower + harass.

Offensive lane:
:nymp:+:pebb: = Feed Pebbles mana, Stalagmites hurts.
:nymp:+:behe: = Feed Behemoth mana, Fissure hurts.
:pyro:+:magm: = Easy Double Stun
:pyro:+:hamm: = Easy Double Stun
:pyro:+:blac: = Easy Double Stun + Minus Magic Armor
:pyro:+:elec: = Easy Double Stun + two nukes.
:accu:+:soulr: = Doesn't die and does tons of damage.
:plag:+... = Lich Harasses/Denies Exp and pulls lane out.

[JDnCoke]

I've scanned through this, but haven't yet seen anyone mention :swif: + :elec:. I mean come on, easiest level 1 first blood ever.

[Decency]

That's because dual melee lanes are terrible.

[_blomman]

I've scanned through this, but haven't yet seen anyone mention :swif: + :elec:. I mean come on, easiest level 1 first blood ever.

:poll: has almost the same grip skill as :elec: but he is ranged so he would be a better choice

[RadicalEdwrd]

Am I talking too aggressive? Or excessively flaming people? :( That sounds like you fear me or something.
lol, you're not being aggressive or hostile, I was just continuing to prod and poke with the Jeraziah + Glacius lane combo and didn't want to seem like some stubborn, ignorant noob. I've had similarly themed discussions on other boards about different games where an older veteran and long time forum goer comes in and tosses his weight (reputation) around when talking about strategy, and I usually get flamed to hell and back when I don't abandon ship immediately as someone "PRO" tells me I'm wrong while not offering a 100% clear explanation as to why (like you did a few posts up).


Either that (ex he lanes well with :valk:), or simply lane him as a pure Babysitter & go Gank after your Lane has been Ganked.
So to speak: Your Mid comes Ganking, you kill one & push one down to 50% HP, Carry takes his Freefarm and you just leave your Lane for a bit.
Feeds the Carry a bit of XP, the 50% Guy fears you sitting in the Jungle (=Freefarm for Carry) and you can kill the enemy Mid now.
Sounds like it would work.

[TreeHorse]

:pand: + :engi:
:tort: + :blac:

[`jusatin`]

postin the obvious is fun...

:pred::pyro: = pretty common combo with our friends... Pred with Early boots + proper stun from Pyro on a soft hero = easy FB


dont
buy
marchers
first
:)

ty

[ITAGiangif]

what about :pyro:+:elec: ?

[Flair]

Pebbles/Tort can fail very easily because both stuns can be dodged. Missing just one of the two can throw your combo (ha ha get it throw? pebbles? HAR HAR HAR)
Pebbles stun is so easy to land in comparison to several others.

I can understand missing Pyro's or Torturer's stuns, but I cringe everytime I see a Pebbles miss.

[Blazinghand]

Pebbles stun is so easy to land in comparison to several others.

I can understand missing Pyro's or Torturer's stuns, but I cringe everytime I see a Pebbles miss.

Pebbles stun is easier to land at point blank range since the travel time is less, I think. Still, I'd rather be chaining Tort's stun with an instant or targeted stun like :hamm:'s.

[girls]

Crystal Maiden + Phantom Lancer
Vengeful Spirit + Centaur
Tiny + Centaur
Ursa + Dark Seer

NEVER FORGET