Pocket-Chiprel + Chiprel Snack

[Beiz]

http://fattiboy.net/~beiz/projects/newerth/pocket-chiprel.jpg

[Beiz]

Questions and Answers

Q: What is this?
A: It's much like a :WardOfSight:, except it's a one-time purchase that cannot be destroyed but it can be captured. It cannot be placed on cliffs or unaccessible areas, which makes it's use somewhat different to a :WardOfSight:.
Q: Huh, no cliffs?
A: Yeah, no cliffs, not even with a blink hero or hero with :Portalkey:, why? Because it may only be summoned within your base pool. This also means that the :chip: will follow normal pathing.
Q: Why doesn't it reveal stealthed units?
A: There are already numerous ways to counter stealth, this is not one of them, this is a map awareness tool at the price of 30 minutes from normal :WardOfSight:.
Q: If I feed him, for how long can I move him about?
A: The "move" ability on :chip: is charged by Snacks, for each snack provided to the :chip:, he gains +1 move charge. This ability works like a target ground ability, as in, he will only move if given the order through this specific ability.
Q: What's this about capture?
A: Each team may only purchase a :chip: once, the :chip: is not affiliated to any team until provided with a Snack. Once a Snack has been granted to the :chip:, he will grant whatever team gave him the Snack vision and a charge to "move". If the opposing :chip: has been located by a team, they in turn can feed him a Snack, which will grant them vision, instead of the opposing team. In other words, whoever last gave him a Snack will have control over him.
Q: Hmm.. ok, so, is the entire team in control or only the buyer?
A: Since no one can really move him unless he has been fed, it basically boils down to whoever gave him a Snack!
Q: The cliffs again, some cliffs are still accessible, they might give him unobstructed sight, isn't that a bit too good?
A: Not really, if :chip: was implemented into the game, it would be wise not to place him on "common" spots, as to not have him stolen from your team.
Q: So how can you reveal the :chip:?
A: He cannot be revealed by hero abilities, however :BoundEye:, :DustOfRevelation: and :WardOfRevelation: works just fine. Care to note however that reavealing isn't enough to take him, you need to feed him a Snack in order to capture him to your team.
Q: Will the Snack work on normal :chip:?
A: No. Originally, I had planned for there to only be Snacks. But in order to maintain a more appropriate and balanced concept, I decided to stick a tame, buy-able, :chip: in there as well. This should make it more relevant to :WardOfSight: compensation and a parallel to :BoundEye:.
Q: Will this block Neutral Spawns?
A: As with every persistent model afaik, it should block Neutrals as well. That might be a risky position however, and just adds flavor to the tactical aspect of the :chip: :)
Q: So, how many Snacks can I buy and how many charges can I add?
A: As many as you can afford since it's a 50g price, It will stack indefinitely as well, but since it can be captured by the opposing team, that might be a risky move, yet tactical if used correctly. Again, it just adds flavor to the concept ;)
Q: What's the cast range on the summon and the Snack?
A: Since :chip: can only be summoned within the pool, the cast range should correspond to that, Snacks are melee, because it wouldn't make much sense if you could throw the Snacks half cross the map now would it ;)
Q: What's this with no moving inside base thing?
A: In order to prevent abuse from the opposing team, the :chip: may never return into yours or enemy team base, once it has left the area.
Q: I stacked a bunch of charges on the :chip: but the enemy team stole it?
A: The charges will persist. Don't play it too risky ;)
Q: How fast will the :chip: move?
A: Since I'm not the game designer, and I can see some tactical use with a well fed :chip:, I would say 300 movement speed. Care to note that he is "neutral" however, so no auras and the like will affect him.
Q: My question wasn't answered :(
A: Please write your question in this thread, and I will gladly answer. I check 4-5 times a day, so you'll get your answer within 24 hours ;D

[docterj208]

so.... this is a moveable never ending site ward?

[Beiz]

Close, it's a ward that may, or may not, have a significance to the gameplay as a whole - if anything, counter-warding earns a new definition and greater importance.

EDIT: I would like to point out that the cost for the Chiprel + Snack is equal to 30 minutes of normal wards, with the difference that it "should", "hypothetically", be easier to counter-ward the Chiprel, and that the actual "presence" of the Chiprel plays a different part of the game (which can make the cost cheaper, equal, or greater, to a normal ward, depending on how the game unfolds).

[Duey]

Im not sure if i totally understand how this works, but i like the idea and creativity so t-up

[Beiz]

Here's a little "guide" on how to use the Chiprel. I hope you understand it better... I threw it together in about 10 minutes, so it's not really detailed or anything :P
http://fattiboy.net/~beiz/projects/newerth/howto/howto_chiprel.jpg

[da_bombboyz]

very nice mini guide! like the idea, it's like a better version of bound eye that can move around and has standard vision instead of reveal. I like!

[Beiz]

I wonder if the vision is too big right now though. A hero has 1800 vision during day and 800 during night (I think? old data), a ward has 1600 vision regardless, and this has a 1300 vision.. however you can't place it on unaccessible ground, so to gain full view without obstruction isn't possible... hmm...

[dandylion]

Could always plop it on cliffs (accessible ones) to still gain some pretty big benefits. I.E. Kongor area, Legion ancient spawn cliffs, and Hellbourne forest entry cliffs to name a few.

[Kaliuz]

Different. Original. Creative.

Thumbs up!

[MADD411]

there is no reason to not put this in the game. at the very least for a fun item.

[yyr_]

t-up from me, innovative and funny.

[Khser]

liked it, funny, useful, and . . . i liked it

[Shockfire]

Funny item...T-UP.
Great job for the mini-guide..!

[Beiz]

I wasn't expecting this many T-ups! Thank you everyone ^^;

I've cleaned up the presentation a bit, should be slightly easier to read now :)


Could always plop it on cliffs (accessible ones) to still gain some pretty big benefits. I.E. Kongor area, Legion ancient spawn cliffs, and Hellbourne forest entry cliffs to name a few.All those cliffs are prone to counter-warding, which is risky for the Chiprel - I see nothing wrong with that :) I intended to showcase this in the miniguide, but changed my mind since it would use even more panels, that's why Panda has a Hatchet :D

[FlaMeSticK1]

love it this needs to be in game

[Crazyloon]

This is interesting to say the least, how long does the *ward* get move? If you keep it perpetually in motion, will it ever lose the ability to move?

[Beiz]

This is interesting to say the least, how long does the *ward* get move? If you keep it perpetually in motion, will it ever lose the ability to move?Good question, I think I messed up on the details. Basically, the Chiprel is stationary by nature, it won't move. the "Move" ability is a target ground function, that allows you to move it to that location, once it has been moved, it can't be moved again unless you refill his move charge ;) edit: tactically, you might want to stack up a few move charges so that you can utilize him for certain situations, ex. you use him to reveal the bottom ward, but you suspect a kongor in action and want to take a peak.

[dandylion]

Other question: Would this also stop neutral spawns from spawning, just like other wards? I'm only going to assume the answer is yes, but I figured I should be thorough!

[Beiz]

Other question: Would this also stop neutral spawns from spawning, just like other wards? I'm only going to assume the answer is yes, but I figured I should be thorough!Well yeah, afaik, everything including corpses blocks neut spawns, so I see why not?

This actually gave me an idea for a tactic, you purchase the Chiprel and feed him 2x snacks, when the enemy is assumed to have dust as a counter-measurement, you move him to fill another purpose :)

Simplicity + Depth = Flexibility = Win :D

Just to add; the entire balance focus of this item (considering it's a permanent ward), is the risk of losing it. It's "probably" a great item to have every game, the question is it's placements. Since due to the risk, there really can't be any "common spots", ever, period :eek:

[FlaMeSticK1]

gonna make 2 more accounts to vote for this guy this is true genius :D

[Beiz]

Thanks, I guess? :P fabricated votes :D

[Beiz]

Whooo, popular :)

[dandylion]

Gratz on popular! This is such a wicked idea, glad it made it!

[Rinsaku]

Like the idea.
To be honest its still fuzzy in your main post, which I think you should try to clear up so people that just skim the forum don't have to read through the first bunch of pages, however I do get the concept and I like it.

Things that need to be addressed:


Chipward cast range

Does the chipward reveal invisible units, or is it purely a sight ward.
Will the chipward+chipsnack be a combinable item(hungry chiprel perhaps?) before placement in order to "stack" movement charges as you call them, and if so, how many would be able to be stacked before placement.

If a chipward is captured, will the movement charges be carried over with the team conversion

How fast is the chiprels movement speed while moving, and is there a possibility the chiprel will have any skills such as a flying courier does

Is the player who bought the chiprel in control of it, or is the whole team; and furthermore, when a player captures the ward is he in control, or is the entire team that captured it

If a hero with a blink were to have the chipward in their inventory and they blinked atop a cliff, could it be placed up there

When a hero blinks or is moved into an area that it does not belong you can move out of the area running with no clipping, would the chiprel(assuming it would be placed atop a cliff by a blinking hero) have this effect if it were moving, or would it simply be stuck, making its move ability useless in that situation

As an alternative addition, can we give the chiprel a pair of binoculars and make him look around?!?!?
After all thats pretty much what his job will be anyways correct?


Please don't mistake this as me trying to bash your idea, because I like it a lot. I just feel those are a few things that should be addressed(minus the added binoculars suggestion by myself).

Overall, got my vote :smile:

[Beiz]

Q: Chipward cast range?
A: Since it can only be summoned within the Legion or Hellbourn pool (as specified in the tooltip), and upon summon, is not affiliated with neither side (and invisible), I figured I didn't need to specify a cast range, especially since you won't see him unless you're at the pool/near your own towers :)

Q: Does the chipward reveal invisible units, or is it purely a sight ward?
A: I only ever mentioned 1300 Sight Range (Vision), so there's no reason to assume it would have True Sight or Reveal.

Q: Will the chipward+chipsnack be a combinable item(hungry chiprel perhaps?) before placement in order to "stack" movement charges as you call them, and if so, how many would be able to be stacked before placement?
A: I'm not exactly sure how this would work, or even what would lead anyone to believe it worked in this way. The snack, as mentioned in the tooltip, is used on the Chiprel, and consumed on use, this will grant the chiprel +1 in his move ability. Stacks indefinitely, and no maximum on charges (if you want to spend hundreds of gold on Snacks, then it's your own fault if it gets stolen :P ).

Q: If a chipward is captured, will the movement charges be carried over with the team conversion?
A: Yes, it's a risk to be considered.

Q: How fast is the chiprels movement speed while moving, and is there a possibility the chiprel will have any skills such as a flying courier does?
A: I didn't really bother with movement speed consideration, because I think it's rather irrelevant, it could move all from 200 to 522 for all I care (it's not like you will be able to utilize his movement to a great extent unless you spend tons of gold on it anyway). He has one ability, the Move ability :P

Q: Is the player who bought the chiprel in control of it, or is the whole team; and furthermore, when a player captures the ward is he in control, or is the entire team that captured it?
A: Good question, since you wont really be able to control the Chiprel without Move charges, I would say the entire team is in control. Whoever feeds him, gets to move him. I know I didn't specify this but... The only way for the opposing team to actually gain control over his sight is to feed him, this will add up to the already existing charges, if there are any.

Q: If a hero with a blink were to have the chipward in their inventory and they blinked atop a cliff, could it be placed up there?
A: Not sure how you thought of that, but since you can't summon him outside of team pool, that might be a bit hard to execute, don't you think? :P

Q: When a hero blinks or is moved into an area that it does not belong you can move out of the area running with no clipping, would the chiprel(assuming it would be placed atop a cliff by a blinking hero) have this effect if it were moving, or would it simply be stuck, making its move ability useless in that situation?
A: Already answered.

Q: As an alternative addition, can we give the chiprel a pair of binoculars and make him look around?!?!? After all thats pretty much what his job will be anyways correct?
A: This would reduce the tactical importance of his positioning, It's a cool idea, but I think it would be too powerful :/


The only thing that hasn't been "detailed" in the actual suggestion post is the capture of a chiprel, but I think the guide did a decent job on that :P If not, I could add it to the description.

[CHR0N0S]

Its excdlent man !

[Beiz]

Added a Q:A right after the first post, on the first page :)

[Rinsaku]

Hmmmm, I must have overlooked the part where you said it could only be cast in the pool haha. Thats my bad, sorry.

The only thing I don't understand:
Q: As an alternative addition, can we give the chiprel a pair of binoculars and make him look around?!?!? After all thats pretty much what his job will be anyways correct?
A: This would reduce the tactical importance of his positioning, It's a cool idea, but I think it would be too powerful :/

Lol is this sarcasm?
*Note
The binocs I was suggesting were for visuals only, and had no effect on his view distance or anything.


Edit: Good Q&A. Cleared a lot up, for me at least =D

[flibble]

Cool idea. Read the whole thing and it really does add a new element to the gameplay. Good job.

[schila]

i dont want more ****ing wards, no thank you

[Beiz]

Well, it's more like an alternative, that adds a new flavor of gameplay, rather than just "another fukn ward".

But to each his own, I guess ;)

[Beiz]

bump.

[SuperStag]

Good concept. The fact that it's a chiprel only adds to it.

[Typhy]

It's a fun concept. With some quick thinking, I already have a few places I could put this little bugger to maximise effectiveness.

[Vulcan]

Pretty amazing, but how much would this actually cost?