Tracker's Gloves

[spiralJunkie]

http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Gloves-of-the-Swift.png + http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Bound-eye.png + http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Bastard-Sword.png = http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9751/huntsman.png


Tracker's Gloves:




Gloves of the Swift (500)
Bound Eye (700)
Bastard Sword (1400)

Total Cost 2600

+15 Attack Speed
+21 Damage

Cooldown 2 seconds


On Attack Impact

33% chance to deal 25 Physical damage to target and apply Tracked to target.


Tracked

Target is revealed for 3.5 seconds

This item contains Bashing properties.

This item, unlike brutalizer, works equally well on ranged as well as melee Heroes.

The implementation is two-fold. It can be a decent mid-game item as a good counter to any hero who can turn invisible, and makes ganks from people such as NH and Scout a lot less likely, forcing them to maybe think about a bit more teamplay. An easy vanish isn't on the cards any more. I like stealth heroes, but I feel they can be a bit overused, and this could help. It also means you're more likely to engage a hero who can stealth, and hope to get a decent reveal on them so you can then CC them.

The other use is for chasing. This is an excellent anti-juke mechanism, because if I'm following you with a ranged character, I hit you sometimes, all I need is a lucky reveal to keep on going.

[Spaztick]

http://www.b2bcoaching.co.uk/thumbs%20up%20low%20res.jpg

[StereoStar]

Does it keep the passive Truesight from the Eye?

[spiralJunkie]

Changes:

21.3.10
Changed stats to match ingredient stats, increased reveal time (Arachv0id)

[spiralJunkie]

Does it keep the passive Truesight from the Eye?

No, I think it may be too powerful then, although a low-range reveal (similar to blue wards) might work if we knocked the on-chance duration?

[sage62]

if stealth characters are the problem, I think most people would just stop at the eye, seeing the stealth character coming is better than having a chance of revealing them for 3.5 seconds. Though the reveal would be useful for chasing

[Aquea]

Don't make the eye a component for this item. It seems more like an anti-juke mechanism than one for revealing an invisible target. Dust, Eyes and Wards are still going to be more reliable than this.

Other than that T-Up

[docterj208]

I have to agree, remove the Eye. This makes it cheaper and much easier to build (since you can die without having to buy a new eye)


A better item might be Glow stone (so you can say it has a "Fairy Fire" theme)


Also, one last thought.

You might want it to just vision in general and have a 33% chance to reveal. This would make the ability more reliable overall with the added benefit of giving true site by chance.

[Izual]

Keep the eye IMO, it can pass as a recipe cost.

[docterj208]

Keep the eye IMO, it can pass as a recipe cost.

Good point.

[spiralJunkie]

Yeah, I like the eye as part of the recipe, it feels on-theme, and also it's no longer drop-on-death

[Kserijaro]

o lol noooo....eye is too powerfull item,thats why it drops forr a reason(just like doombringer) You killed the point of having an eye since it wont reveal heroesthat are a bit further away.But wait! It reaveals them when they are near! Thats awesome! So you hit then and have a chance to....omfg double reveals them but for 3.5 seconds!How did you though of this >_< you amaze me bro! For instance like scout silences you and disarms you and you cant do ****,and you some how manage to apply Tracked on him he goes invis and sprints back to base! OR OR! Nighthound is tracked and he blink strikes his creep to run away and place a fog behind him so u can beat AIR!....OR OR i have another Valk is tracked! She jumps uses ulti and runs away! Her team rapes your team while the emerge from Prism. You a dumb kid Junkie. :D

[MADD411]

like it alot. good call. Good to add more reason to buy an eye.

[RobertDownyJ]

The concept is nice, but losing the functionality of the bound eye seems pretty harsh if you're going to include it in the recipe. Personally, I'd keep it as is with two changes;
1.) Have it grant an aura in a 500 radius. This aura grants true sight in a 200 range to all nearby allies. The primary function of the aura would be to use creeps to scout out invis heroes for you as opposed to just being able to see them right out. It weakens the effect since you no longer drop it on death, but still grants true sight.
2.) because of the above change, I would reduce the duration of revealed on the target to 2.5 seconds.

[spiralJunkie]

The concept is nice, but losing the functionality of the bound eye seems pretty harsh if you're going to include it in the recipe. Personally, I'd keep it as is with two changes;
1.) Have it grant an aura in a 500 radius. This aura grants true sight in a 200 range to all nearby allies. The primary function of the aura would be to use creeps to scout out invis heroes for you as opposed to just being able to see them right out. It weakens the effect since you no longer drop it on death, but still grants true sight.
2.) because of the above change, I would reduce the duration of revealed on the target to 2.5 seconds.

yeah, I think this is a decent compromise. You need some sight for the initial tag.

[Blazz]

I'm thinking an activatable ability on the item that acts as dust around your hero - say a 400 radius - that applies revealed to any enemy hero in the area for the initial 3.5 seconds. From there, you could just attack the "invisible hero" and hope for a kill.

I mean, nighthound is still a pain in the ass, even if people had the ability to occasionally get a "lucky reveal" in on him and attack him. And considering the item is only a 33% chance (although likely to happen late game with agi ranged heroes quite fast - imagine an engineer's sentry gun with one of these?) it seems fair enough.

Perhaps reduce it to 25% chance for ranged heroes, 33% for melee. Melee heroes going up against a nighthound/scout need the advantage, and slither/puppet/whoever else uses an assassin's shroud to gank you is likely going to rape you anyway if they're that close.

Just some thoughts - but I like it. I like anything that makes me not need to buy a bound eye or wards or dust -_-

[spiralJunkie]

One of the really strong balances for this item is the fact that it uses Bashing, so traditionally high attack-speed heroes like chronos and rampage can't use it at all, and them some who tend to get brutaliser have to decide on stunning or a more support-oriented tool

[gmastaub]

what if you left it with a passive aura, but it only gives vision to the owner? and maybe had a shorter radius of sight...

or you could just make it a clickable single target vision reveal for xx time (longer than dust otherwise its worthless)

[Splendid]

great item. love it soo much. right now the only useful item with sight is Puzzlebox, which is just not practical on too many heroes.

on a side note... why is it called "Bound Eye." It isn't bound to the player... as it drops on death, and it certainly is no longer bound to a socket.
Should be "Unbound Eye."

[spiralJunkie]

what if you left it with a passive aura, but it only gives vision to the owner? and maybe had a shorter radius of sight...

or you could just make it a clickable single target vision reveal for xx time (longer than dust otherwise its worthless)


I tihnk I like the Bashing mechanic, plus it's only really worthwhile if you're engaging the hero. Dust him, ward him, once you see him, ENGAGE

[spiralJunkie]

Tweaked a couple of numbers, keep the suggestions coming

[papwned]

Don't make the eye a component for this item. It seems more like an anti-juke mechanism than one for revealing an invisible target. Dust, Eyes and Wards are still going to be more reliable than this.

Other than that T-Up


this

[SinsofSanity]

No. Nobody would ever buy it, it's way too expensive for the minimal benefits it give.
If you want to kill stealth heroes, you can just buy dust for 180 gold and have just as big a chance of killing them as you have with this item. And paying 2600 gold for +15 attack speed and and +21 damage.

[CharlieM]

longer reveal time, good iteam, nice idea. should be an attack modifier, to allow loong reveal times, like 8 secs or something

[Kalium]

Great! Add an activatable ability to reveal in a AoE around, with a big cooldown of course, just like Dust.

[Ghidoran]

Why does the game need more counters to invis?

Like I can see why people like the concept of the idea, I personally think it's pretty neat too, but you have to question whether it would be a good addition to the game, and I for one don't see how it is.

The 2 main invis heroes are Scout and Night Hound, and fluke games aside they are considered pretty low tier heroes. Even when they do shine, their invisibility is not a factor, so what is the point of having MORE anti-invis items or skills? They are already so easily countered its not even funny, and the last thing they need right now is something to stop them even more.

I just don't see any reason for this item to be in the game, unless maybe you change it to reveal invis heroes in an AoE around the holder when it procs(this would allow it to counter heroes like Keeper and Valk who are considerably more of a threat, and also a tool to counterward).

No choice but to rate down atm, sorry.

[howerut]

I agree with ghidoran, scout and night hound are already really bad when countered with anti stealth that more anti invis that has no benefits over eye, dust or wards is not necissary. and if anti-juking is worth 2600 to you your doing wrong.

[pro_Noun]

Idea. Item gives out timly waves of sight - revealing invisable heroes' presence.

E.g. Every 3 seconds, sends a wave outwards from teh hero (doesnt have to be a visiable wave)... but like a wave from magmus' Ult... And it will reveal all enemies that it comes into contact with for 0.5seconds. Just to let u know they are there. However, this would also prove very powerful in anti-juking, so not sure how u' balance that....

You could perhaps leave the anti-juking to the %chance thing that you already have, then have the other abilites wave effect be stopped by trees / cliffs. So it only shows u invisable heroes that are in ur sight area.

Nice item.

[Ninja_Style]

Using bound eye in the recipe is questionable to say the least. I like the machanic of having the risk of losing your eye, risk of wasting your wards/dust. Having an item that has a chance to reveal does not feature the same risk/reward situation. Looks very :blac:ish and is sort of counter-inuitive in a competitive game in my opinion.

Holding vote to see where you are going with this.

[Mummeh]

Damn, I want this item. NAO

[spiralJunkie]

I actually really like the idea Tullip and Ghidoran have mentioned. Instead of applying reveal to the target, it's like placing a 0.5s blue ward on self when it procs. that's really cool, and different.

Also, this stacks with Bash. really really remember this

[Omerta]

make the target visible through FOW & you'll have something. Just "revealing" for 3.5 seconds is so bad. Make it work like skadi on spells too that would also make this item worth getting. AKA one of the best items for thunder bringer. I like the concept but it seems under powered & almost a waste of gold/item slot. Just like nomes wisdom.

[spiralJunkie]

everyone still gets nomes :p

This would be Revealed in the same way as Pesti's ult. is that Visible too?

[Chasity]

great item. love it soo much. right now the only useful item with sight is Puzzlebox, which is just not practical on too many heroes.

On a side note, :Puzzlebox: is one of the only items that is viable on >90% of the heroes

[Pharaoh]

we are amused :D


LOVE IT

[Tyno]

I like the AoE reveal idea, ignoring terrain and trees on proc. I am not sure how you would use it to counter ganks, wards or harrass invisible heroes though, you would have to have something to attack for it to work, or already see them. Voted up, will be watching this thread.

[pmkaboo]

good idea but if you want something good against invise heroes then it should be::BoundEye: + :DustOfRevelation: = dusty eye -> true sight in 300aoe around the wielder and dust effect on use (infinite charges)

[Pineapple]

really good concept.. however u should increase duration of tracked.
33 % chance for 3.5 secs reveal is just not worth 2600 gold imo

[Pfannzor]

make it on proc activate a dustlike effect around your hero

[HeavySoul]

Great idea.

As others have said the Bound Eye poses some questions. Personally, I think that losing the all-time Truesight is a bit much - even in exchange for it being undroppable.

Thoughts:
1) Keep the Truesight but make it deactivate if you die - so you have to repurchase an Eye to restore it.
2) Add a temporary, cooldown-based Truesight like Dust - a Recipe cost would likely need to be added in that case. (Preferred.)

-HS

[drunky]

this item doesn't need rng; it could be functional in several other ways. Also, this item is overpriced for what it does; for the price of 3 items you gain the exact functionality of 2 of them and lose functionality on one of them.

suggestions to make it work:


make it everything third hit guaranteed or make it activated with a duration slightly longer than it's cool down.
make it work more like dust; gem is ae and this item is single target, which makes it feel like you give up a lot for a bad proc.
take this item's ability and put it on something cheaper, for example something around 600-800g worth of components for this awful proc on some minor stats (say +4 all) or a comparable amount of damage/attack speed.

frankly the item as described is worse than dust and costs substantially more. You are not likely to able to chase an invisible hero around for 12 seconds hitting him without the proc falling off, which would be required for this item to beat the 180g dust in a particular encounter, and the gloves would require initial vision on the target.

[Ezio]

The idea is good... but maybe you should change it to an attack modifier rather than a bash property, it doesn't stun the target, and a ministun would make it too overpowered.

If you can stack this with Frostburn or just frost brand, you can basically slow slow someone through an entire forest because of the high chance of being tracked.

[Mr_Sir]

I think this item will be kinda useless.. You need to see the invis unit before you can attack it. And even then there is a chance that you won't reveal them.. And this item does not contain a bashing propertie :) The concept is good but still 3.5 sec is not very long. It could be nice with an item that reveal around yourself every time you used a spell, kinda like dust but with like 25 % chance of working and without limits

[Hemothorax]

I'd approve if you bumped it to 35% for melee 18% for ranged.

[fevian]

Using bound eye in the recipe is questionable to say the least. I like the machanic of having the risk of losing your eye, risk of wasting your wards/dust. Having an item that has a chance to reveal does not feature the same risk/reward situation. Looks very :blac:ish and is sort of counter-inuitive in a competitive game in my opinion.

Holding vote to see where you are going with this.

This.

[XSkiBBiDyx]

I want this item, and I want it to be just as it says. Make it simply reveal the person for like 3-4 seconds, in the same manor that Pestilence's ult works. NO bash though. I also say lower the % for ranged heroes to like 18-24. Increase the cool down on revealing/damage to like 8 seconds. Seems like a good way to counter Scout and Night Hound, Magmus etc., but not too ridiculously. Also not bad for chasing some one like Wretched Hag, or Chronos, since they blink.

[Yaqu]

Underpowered for the price. Need tweaking, still good idea imo. What sux is that it disencourages juking :/

[Evergoth]

I'd like to suggest lower duration, cheaper item, and not a proc but a cooldown. So that first hit always reveals for like two seconds, enough for your team mates to get there and cast some more reliable reveal like iceblock or some sort of hold. This would serve the purpose of forcing you to teamplay to get the stealth hero down. It would destroy the stealth heroes if all if took to make them completely useless was this item.
Also I'd like to suggest that it also works on spells, still with the cooldown and low duration, so that if you know he's there, cast some aoe and he's revealed long enough that your team can get something on him, unless they're sleeping. Again teamwork will be key as it should.
I don't like it as it is now, so I'm holding my vote.

[RUSty_]

Ok. I assume this gives vision of the target and not just revealing stealthed heroes.
I think the concept is quite interesting and will need more discussion to find out what impact this could have on stealth/flash skill heroes as well as fog juking in general (because an average stun/disable will give you enough attacks to ensure a proact of this ability.) NH will be hit the hardest with this because his stealth ability doesn't provide any other benefits while also having a longer fade time than any other stealth ability/item (excluding Valk).

Item build-up: Do not like it. Bound eye makes sense but as part of an item is pretty horrible, I'd change to recipe instead. I would also strongly consider using Halberd instead of Bastard Sword as you have the chance property (physical damage proact) there from the get-go to pass on to Tracker's Gloves (like Brutalizer.)

reserving vote for now.

[Saunamajuri]

To be honest. I see this item as abit underpowered actually. Compared to more powerful anti-stealth items like Puzzlebox and good old plain Dust. Of course its arguable better than either one but it requires him to initiate you so you can even acquire the possibility of hitting him and getting the revelation debuff. Maybe it could work with cheaper mats, as with for example instead of bound eye, it would cost 2x Dust of Revelation.

[Sku1l]

I don't like that item for 2 main reason :

1: bashing properties on an item that do not have chance to stun (just suck for every basher)

2:For that kind of bonus (On Attack Impact 33% chance to deal 25 Physical damage to target and apply Tracked to target) i'd see the recepies component be like :Halberd:+:DustOfRevelation: + :GlovesOfTheSwift:

[Token]

i personally would never buy this item, i'd prefer having a 700g eye and seeing them at all times

[ZerglingOne]

I would say, change it to a halberd if you're gonna do the bash chance, however I believe this should be more like what Bloodhunter's ult used to do. Essentially you'd know they were in the area, but couldn't ACTUALLY see them or target them specifically. This is less powerful than pure true sight, but doesn't drop on death. Keeps more with the "tracking" theme too because when you're tracking someone, you're looking for signs of where they've been. In the case of a nighthound for example, Defiler could have picked this up and whenever she sees NH's track symbol, she casts silence in the area thus revealing him. It could also help ward off ganks by those characters. It would also not be used to counter ward like a bound eye can be used.

[HeavySoul]

I would say, change it to a halberd if you're gonna do the bash chance, however I believe this should be more like what Bloodhunter's ult used to do. Essentially you'd know they were in the area, but couldn't ACTUALLY see them or target them specifically. This is less powerful than pure true sight, but doesn't drop on death. Keeps more with the "tracking" theme too because when you're tracking someone, you're looking for signs of where they've been. In the case of a nighthound for example, Defiler could have picked this up and whenever she sees NH's track symbol, she casts silence in the area thus revealing him. It could also help ward off ganks by those characters. It would also not be used to counter ward like a bound eye can be used.

This right here is a great idea. Best form of the item yet.

[P_Jota]

Pretty sure revealed and sighted debuffs are different. If you want it to proc a temporary pesti ulti then it has to make the target both revealed and sighted.
Revelation wards for instance, have a much bigger reveal range than sight range. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Sku1l]

Pretty sure revealed and sighted debuffs are different. If you want it to proc a temporary pesti ulti then it has to make the target both revealed and sighted.
Revelation wards for instance, have a much bigger reveal range than sight range. Do you get what I'm saying?

Like dust provide reveal , but do not give sight when ennemy get in fog of war

(:DustOfRevelation:+:Halberd:+:GlovesOfTheSwift: , and remove the bash shared cool down and ill vote yes on it)

[FuzioN]

id like to say this is REALLY good idea and something needed. instead of forcing the team to save a slot for a ward eye or somthing this gives damage and stats to it really great job.

I was afraid this would be 100% vision like gem but to my suprise this is really balanced.
i would like to say this should get implemented cuz if invisheros know how to stay invis this would not be that good they need to see them and shoot at them to make it useful.

Good job!

[Thysios]

Invis is already extremely easy to counter.
Don't see why they should be indirectly nerfed even more.

[Vodka]

I don't see why I would take a 33% chance to reveal over dust or wards in a gank. I would rather see this changed to a straight-up on-hit reveal effect, but have it occupy an orb.

[CSDragon]

I voted up, but it is in slight need of rework as it doesn't have too much room for use in the current metagame. If tracked did more than just reveal, or worked 100% percent of the time, this would be a great item.

[Byxxi]

I like the concept, but it needs to be changed some, imo the reveal should not be like :pest: ult, but should only reveal them when they are supposed to be inside viewing range.
and also 5 sec cooldown, 35% chance to proc on meele heroes, 20% on ranged heroes.

Since the eye is also in the recipe, the item should have a shared aura of the reveal, meaning that if Pyromancer has the item, and gets a proc on night hound, but night hound gets 800(?) units away, but is still in soulstealers vision, he is still revealed.

I don't really know what range of the aura should be, but 450 sounds resonable.

Should also imo have the eyes abilty, but only a 75unit range, so you can have a chance to see the scounts coming in

[StuKa]

Is nice, I like it!

[Pwn]

Way too expensive. I'll just buy dust for 90 gold a pop.

[Pwn]

No, I think it may be too powerful then, although a low-range reveal (similar to blue wards) might work if we knocked the on-chance duration?

Blue wards actually have a larger reveal radius than an eye.

[xXxRambo]

this item would get really really op when a few ports from dota are made but the intent for the item is good enough maybe give it a max range?? example flint cant use this item but moonqueen can. also having an aura would make it 2 op like it can never be droped so isntead of going eye every1 will go for that item and can be good for low lvl farm and ganking

[Token]

replace eye with a hatchet, and make it use a major totem aswell.

this way its got useful items for buildup, roughly same cost, and can be used as a relatively cheap anti-juke item for gankers.

also, if it applied ON spell use 100% (targetted spells only) that would be good too

[Bidz]

I would make it trigger a AoE reveal along with the tracking, like thunder reveal, that way you can be farming and if it triggers you will be "protected"

[Berger]

I really like the idea, but I am also a gigantic fan of juking people, this would sort of dumb down that part of the game, although buying an item this expensive just to stop others from juking you is not worth it imo.

I voted yes, but I think it needs some more tweaking

(sorry can't come up with any tweaks myself)

[Mathswhiz]

I was just wondering... Eye? Is this so instead of having an eye, you can upgrade it so undroppable and takes away the 'Revealed' around you element.