Best mid option vs Corrupted?

[Jayrod]

Ok, I'm not talking about 1500 players, im talking about GOOD corrupted disciple players that actually know how to last hit. What heros are you sending mid against him. His animation is perfect and his harass is strong. Id say engineer has a similar animation, but not nearly the harass. Normally I can compete as soulstealer, but it really limits the rest of the lineup, especially if sidelanes need ganks, since hes best served mid and CD is a superior ganker.

Please when you give your .02 assume your skill is 100% equal to your opponents. What kinds of things do you do to put him on the defensive?

My account hovers around 1750 and the disciple choosers I have trouble with are around that PSR or higher.

I usually go mid with Pharaoh or Deadwood, never ran into a corrupted disciple that didn't **** his pants the moment I reached level 6. Theoretically Nymphora can also work. I suppose any hero with untargetted nukes will work on disciple, since it takes away the third skill from the fight and leaves him with just conduit(which doesn't work against heroes that use spells to harass). So defiler and wretched should also do a fair job of keeping disciple busy with other things than last hitting.

[DemoniWaari]

Pick dual stunners mid and laugh.

[MABManZ]

Slither or Pyro should do fairly well against him (non targeted spells and plenty of dot harass potential)

[FireSoup]

KOTF - Living Armor, buckler. CD won't be able to hurt you.

Or Slither, wards will hold that lane, remove his speed buff, and you can harass him with toxicity, he doesn't have a ton of HP's or damage early game.

Vindicator too - Sage's Lore forces him to cast his AOE (which he can only cast once or twice before being out of mana) then you keep harassing him with Sage's Lore, send him back to the fountain. You have about 4-5 casts of Sage's Lore before running out of mana. The first two will be to drain his mana and force a cast, the last three will be to harass him back to his fountain.

[link1313]

torturer , no joke. it takes a weird skill build though. chains / spikes / chains / spikes / spikes. Dont even go for your small aoe stun, you won't be able to hit him. Im actually really good with cd (usually never go anything under 10-1) and a torturer actually managed to get the first 2 kills against me mid (finished the game 7-2 but still was annoying).

match id: 31295236

[Iseldiera]

Corrupted conduit, with a range of 600 and mana cost of 20, is CD's answer to Vindicator's sage lore.A good CD who is mid vs vindicator will take conduit at lvl 2 rather than static discharge. So you can scrap that.

I was going to say SS but you mentioned you want other options.

I disagree with KOTF, even with living armor and buckler, heavy harrassment will have him running for tango, since CD can suck his dmg to himself and hurt him quite bad with the aoe magic.

Blood Hunter is 1 possibility with chain silences (which dmg him too) and the ability to heal yourself with some bold last hitting.

[Andycrapped]

Pharaoh. Harass, harass, harass. Your ability to harass and creep kill at the same time is invaluable. If you got a decent ganker on your team start sending him down when you're six and CD is about half dead. Zip in, hellfire and block off the ramp with mummies.

9/10 times he'll panic and try to run up near the top run to get away, by then your ganker should be up there or near the cliff wall ready to attack.

[Qwernakus]

Corrupted conduit, with a range of 600 and mana cost of 20, is CD's answer to Vindicator's sage lore.A good CD who is mid vs vindicator will take conduit at lvl 2 rather than static discharge. So you can scrap that.

Except that it can only target heroes, and that vindicator has around 1200 range, and that no other of your team is near, and exp range is 1000.

[Kingkongb]

Scratch bloodhunter. conduit makes him useless. Defiler, slither or maybe arachna should do allright but honestly I think that CD is the best mid in the game.

[Twiggie]

deadwood. keep creepwave at your ramp, and deny EVERYTHING.

[hatz]

Wretched Hag. Play passively and blink to the runes. If you out rune whore him he won't be able to do much. Remember, runes set up ganks. Plus your survivability middle is strong with your blink.

[Toobaditsmeh]

I would say :wret: or :souls: are good choices. Anyone with spam-able nukes to let you get creep waves. They also rune whore well, letting you stay in lane. Cd has to come past your creep wave to harass you. Especially hag: you port right next to him, scream to harass and take creeps. Cd doesn't like to be right next to you: he likes to be right in attack range, thats where his tide does the most damage and lets him chain that into an ult. Get close with a nuke and he will retreat to attack range. Retreat from there and repeat.

[stevnpham]

If you can last hit just as well as he can, then Blacksmith isn't a bad choice, risky but his higher end base damage makes it easier for you to deny and last hit. That happened to me and I got owned x.x

[RogerDodger]

Melee heroes are an extremely bad idea in any case since his conduit will rape you if you ever come to the creepline.

I'd go with Arachna since she has orb-walk and better damage for lasthitting.

[Winformula1]

Most likely Arachna, if you're fast enough then you can use your harden carapace when he is spamming his electric tide to nullify alot of his damage. Also after a couple of levels you can start counter harass him with your webbed shot witch will force him to either;
1 Be more defensive.
2 Go and gank at an other lane to get xp advantage.
3 Set up a gank on you.

When he goes for that rune simply follow him and orb-walk him to death, after that the runes are all your.

[KorokFanNr1]

Puppet Master, Wretched Hag, Soul Reaper, Arachna

[Tamachan]

Pyromancer or zephyr. Simply because zeph will be untouchable if you can reach level 3 without suffering.

[Killstealing]

deadwood. keep creepwave at your ramp, and deny EVERYTHING.

against a good cd you won't be able to consistently leash the creeps towards your tower
by the way he will just put a ward on your ramp so he can lasthit anyway (only 30% miss chance IF he's on lower ground)

[Kudryavka]

Powerful melee heroes could work if you're wary of conduit, since I don't think there are any ranged heroes that match CD in last hitting. Maybe :succ: could with the right item build, and :pupp: once he gets a few points in Whiplash. Any hero that nukes down creep waves like :soulr::defi::souls::tort: wouldn't be nearly as crippled by CD's superior last hitting, either, so they could work, too.

[antelopes]

Hellbringer should be able to put up a good match with the right item build.

[_Alice]

Ss pwn any other mid with decent last hit / deny and proper rune control

[BlazingEagle]

blood hunter

[billcosplay]

Defiler can kick him out of the lane with decent rune control

[Vodka]

When playing CD mid, I found Wildsoul to be tough to handle because you can barely do anything when that damn bear runs at you. If you try to harrass him back, the damage he and the bear put out make it a losing situation, so you have to run back. Also, his last-hitting is very strong with that bear.

[Stickyrolls]

Lot of people saying slither. Don't take slither mid unless your playing a noob game. He's got virtually no rune control and the only way your gonna win your lane is with ward spamming. If he's good hes gonna get a mana-battery. Also the wards will keep the lane pushed (kinda good for rune control) but will let him last hit with ease at his tower...not something you want.

There are a lot of lineups that aren't good. Some heroes trump other heroes in mid...it's the natural way of things. SS and CD usually comes down to the better player.

[Deathbeproud]

Lot of people saying slither. Don't take slither mid unless your playing a noob game. He's got virtually no rune control and the only way your gonna win your lane is with ward spamming. If he's good hes gonna get a mana-battery. Also the wards will keep the lane pushed (kinda good for rune control) but will let him last hit with ease at his tower...not something you want.

There are a lot of lineups that aren't good. Some heroes trump other heroes in mid...it's the natural way of things. SS and CD usually comes down to the better player.

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=32347793

Tell Angrytestie not to take Slither middle. No rune control? LOL he is the definition of rune control. Place 9 wards just outside of tower ranged and the creep wave dies before yours arrives. Sure you push it into their tower but that has never stopped a good SS. Not to mention you can easily place wards at both exits of their lane meaning if they try to outrun you for a rune you slow them and see them. And if they every try to leave their tower you take it almost instantly.

[TinyOnTour]

Very Rareley posting here, but in this topic i may help u. I?m playing very often CD mid, and dominating many 1850 SS at mid. Hag have to be very strong to have a chance vs a good cd. CD owns DW and firends eez with conduit, for me CD is the best antimelee at the middle lane. But the guys who said slither are so ****ing right!It?s just awsome to play vs a good slither at mid. I?ve got nearly every game the best creepstats and denies, but a good slither just harrassing u out of the lane, got 100% rune and choke controll. Just thought about posting a thread to ask others what u think about this OP slither at the middle lane..

[Marylinn]

When playing CD mid, I found Wildsoul to be tough to handle because you can barely do anything when that damn bear runs at you. If you try to harrass him back, the damage he and the bear put out make it a losing situation, so you have to run back. Also, his last-hitting is very strong with that bear.
this seems like the winning post to be honest

also hey look, more "CHU AND HIS BUTT BUDDY DID IT THAT MEANS ITS GOOD" cockriders.

[Togashi]

:vind::pyro::slit:

I especially like pyro because he puts out so much early dmg and easily gets the lvl 6 kill because CD just can't get enough hp fast enough to stop it. If I'm pyro mid against an equally good CD I skill Fervor first for early harassment but only to level 1 then standard nukes from then on. I then try and goad his nukes since he can only get about 2 with his base mana. Harass at max range and if you're quick you can avoid all damage by outrunning the wave. Once he's even missed one wave he's gonna be heavily gimped because you've got your DoT and two nukes against his one. Even if his comes off c/d he probably doesn't have enough mana for another unless he pops a bottle in which case just try to get another bad wave out of him.


Corrupted conduit, with a range of 600 and mana cost of 20, is CD's answer to Vindicator's sage lore.A good CD who is mid vs vindicator will take conduit at lvl 2 rather than static discharge. So you can scrap that.

Blood Hunter is 1 possibility with chain silences (which dmg him too) and the ability to heal yourself with some bold last hitting.
A good vindicator casts lore from max range and moves back after the cast anyway. I have been mid against a conduit CD with vindi and he only got off one before I got wise and kept my distance from it. I sent him back to base @ 5 mins and again @ 8 mins, and that was him with bottle.

I don't like BH because buffing CD's damage just to avoid his nuke for a short period is really not a good idea. He's gonna harass you and chase you, then nuke once the silence is off.


this seems like the winning post to be honest

also hey look, more "CHU AND HIS BUTT BUDDY DID IT THAT MEANS ITS GOOD" cockriders.
It does work against CD, but honestly, Wild Soul is so gimped otherwise. If the game makes it to mid-late then CD has probably won. I also know if I were the CD then I would call an any level stunner to come and it's an easy gank on the Wild Soul if you focus him.

[Armsved]

Defiler is the only one I've had trouble vs. Dont really see melee as an option.

[Earthyy]

id like a strong mid harass. something like a defiler, thunderbrindger, pyro. not necessarily to compete with his attack animation, but just to rune control and harass him out of mid as effectively as possible.

[FireSoup]

Corrupted conduit, with a range of 600 and mana cost of 20, is CD's answer to Vindicator's sage lore.A good CD who is mid vs vindicator will take conduit at lvl 2 rather than static discharge. So you can scrap that.

I was going to say SS but you mentioned you want other options.

I disagree with KOTF, even with living armor and buckler, heavy harrassment will have him running for tango, since CD can suck his dmg to himself and hurt him quite bad with the aoe magic.

Blood Hunter is 1 possibility with chain silences (which dmg him too) and the ability to heal yourself with some bold last hitting.

Corrupted Conduit has a long CD, Vindicator can re-cast Sage's Lore on you well before the CD is ready again.

[LightRain]

Corrupted Conduit has a long CD, Vindicator can re-cast Sage's Lore on you well before the CD is ready again.
then you use your circle nuke on him, no?

[Forfeit]

Corrupted Conduit has a long CD, Vindicator can re-cast Sage's Lore on you well before the CD is ready again.
Conduit, Tide, Conduit. He can counter it to an extent. But yes, you would probably end up draining him by about level 3.

Vindi mid is kind of a waste though.

Best counter is just to dual lane mid and solo bot, imo.

Arachna, SS, Hag, Pharaoh.

Hag is especially deadly if you're controlling runes. The waves can spam him down and keep him tower hugging.

[Jayrod]

Conduit, Tide, Conduit. He can counter it to an extent. But yes, you would probably end up draining him by about level 3.

Vindi mid is kind of a waste though.

Best counter is just to dual lane mid and solo bot, imo.

I was thinking about this and just picking up a mid hero that can theoretically beat him (SS and Defiler) and sending them bottom vs. 2 and doubling up on CD who has better mid-game ganking as it is. Gives him less gank targets too so if he goes missing you know exactly where hes going. As long as your SS and Defiler are good enough it should be no problem since they have nukes letting them last hit despite the presence of two heros. Only problem is it pushes the lane, which limits your farm for several seconds at a time. Could be worth it if the CD player is exceptionally scary (talking pugs here)

I think we might try this as long as our "mid solo" hero that goes bottom isn't a ganker hero. We'd probably still send that option mid against CD since he would always have the option of just leaving to roam.

Also, I dont know who it was, but someone mentioned leave to gank and gain XP advantage. I dunno if thats going to net you XP advantage and its very risky. You are giving a powerful hero free farm and xp. The only advantage you gain is if you manage to kill someone in a sidelanes, then that is only relative advantage. You will quickly become underleveled unless your ganks are hugely succesful. Very difficult to do against teams with proper warding.

[Deathbeproud]

I was thinking about this and just picking up a mid hero that can theoretically beat him (SS and Defiler) and sending them bottom vs. 2 and doubling up on CD who has better mid-game ganking as it is. Gives him less gank targets too so if he goes missing you know exactly where hes going. As long as your SS and Defiler are good enough it should be no problem since they have nukes letting them last hit despite the presence of two heros. Only problem is it pushes the lane, which limits your farm for several seconds at a time. Could be worth it if the CD player is exceptionally scary (talking pugs here)

I think we might try this as long as our "mid solo" hero that goes bottom isn't a ganker hero. We'd probably still send that option mid against CD since he would always have the option of just leaving to roam.

Also, I dont know who it was, but someone mentioned leave to gank and gain XP advantage. I dunno if thats going to net you XP advantage and its very risky. You are giving a powerful hero free farm and xp. The only advantage you gain is if you manage to kill someone in a sidelanes, then that is only relative advantage. You will quickly become underleveled unless your ganks are hugely succesful. Very difficult to do against teams with proper warding.

The best heroes are those that discourage ganking and enforce map control. Trying to go gank for gank with him will usually result in you losing. He is insanely powerful 1v1 and can get out of control fast.

:souls::fors::slit::defi:

Are your best options. CD has no true counter middle making him pretty tough. But if he leaves to gank pop everything you got and take his tower. This means if he returns to middle it is a more dangerous lane for him to be in. Grouping up early, Map control, Wards are your best defence.

[Vodka]

Well, my experience with CD vs. Wildsould in mid was a fairly rare thing I guess, but because WS dominated mid so hard, he basically took over the game. We tried to pull off some lane switches, but then he just kept killing our FA over and over. (I also blame it on horrible horrible play on my part, I was way too careless). Match ID: 32925421

So basically, in response to Marylinn, WS isn't that gimped.

EDIT: Forgot to mention those annoying luckroots.

[MrMephisto1]

He's a pain in the ass. Vs ranged with good animations you would normally take a melee with high base Dmg+Hatchet - forget it. He will steal your damage and laugh =)
You will want a ranged hero with non-targeted spells to harass/last hit such as...
:wret::slit::defi:(getting runes is essential - Hag and Slither achieve this, on Defiler it can be hard)
:souls:(can be tough before you build up souls!)
:soulr::hell::witc::pyro: (but no ideal mids in terms of team benefit imo)
:fors:
won't work as good as maybe expected: :vind:(lvl 1 conduit is so cheap :-/)

[pyrated]

he rapes everyone mid

just try to gank him

one of the most infuriating heroes to lane against, if only because of his retarded attack animation/travel time

[sHoWTiMe]

he rapes everyone mid

just try to gank him

one of the most infuriating heroes to lane against, if only because of his retarded attack animation/travel time

Can you imagine it used to be like what ? 2 or 3 times as fast as it is now!

[pyrated]

yeah, I remember when he was first introduced, it was pretty much instant

it's still way too fast though

[Headbus]

Defiler, Soul reaper, SS (be aware if you nuke creeps your ****ing yourself cuz he'll just rambo you)

Puppet master could also be effective so can slither, recently I've just been banning him he's so strong in mid.

[R4GE]

One of these: :pebb::madm::pyro::defi::souls::dead:

basically dudes who can harass + kill with spells.

[Forfeit]

One of these: :pebb::madm::pyro::defi::souls::dead:

basically dudes who can harass + kill with spells.
Who is :madm:? Haven't seen him picked in quite some time.

[Marylinn]

Who is :madm:? Haven't seen him picked in quite some time.
I think he's Chronos' love slave. He keeps him in the basement like that one guy in Pulp Fiction.

[R4GE]

Who is :madm:? Haven't seen him picked in quite some time.

lol, hes still an amazing midder since he doesnt get slowed if u hit somthing with his stalk.

[FruityLoops]

each time i cd mid its pretty simple, imo no real counter, except maybe a good :succ: or an awesome :souls:

but the thing who really hurts cd is 1 solo top 2 mid...

[FruityLoops]

One of these: :pebb::madm::pyro::defi::souls::dead:

basically dudes who can harass + kill with spells.

:pebb: :no
:madm: :no
:pyro::no
:defi::no
:souls:: imo he's hard to beat with a good player + rune control
:dead:: same

[Toobaditsmeh]

I think he's Chronos' love slave. He keeps him in the basement like that one guy in Pulp Fiction.

It's called a gimp. And Bruce Willis is :behe: who punched his lights out.

[jojo]

i would say only puppet master, and ussually soulstealer gets to me around level 5/6 when he started to get some creep kills due to demon hands

[Croe]

:hell:, :arac:, :dead:, :defi:, :fors:, :souls:, :succ:

The best is probably :succ: but most overall viable would be :fors: IMO. Dont expect poor play to outdo a decent player.

[R4GE]

:pebb: :no
:madm: :no
:pyro::no
:defi::no
:souls:: imo he's hard to beat with a good player + rune control
:dead:: same

would u care to state why?

Succubus would be the last one you'd put against CD as her laning tools will slow her down instantly allowing corrupted to retaliate pretty hard. If you want to force early static discharge from CD for some reason you can put her mid, but expect to lose that lane very quickly.

On the first page I said theoretically Nymphora can also work. I just did it and I sent CD back to base 3 times before level 6. http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=33166544

[WSLaFleur]

Dual mid or choose a heavy nuke such a Pyro, Thunder, SoulStealer, etc and make sure you've got your runes warded and a flying courier to refill your bottle. Be consistent with your nukes and it's likely you can keep him on his toes.

:thun: Would be my primary pick, as he can keep pressure middle, provided you're skilled with courier runs and still manage to support ganks with his ultimate. He seems like a poor matchup at first, but high level play, skill Vs. skill it would be interesting.

[Kaelillidan]

I second a nymphora vs. CD.

(noob post) "but nymphora is a babysitter!"

Yeah, she can babysit herself vs. both side lanes including the one she's laning in, GIVING YOU TIME TO PUSH THOSE LANES IN. (Lord knows how many times I have fended off 3 @ mid, and watched my teammates needlessly continue to last hit; naturally not auto attacking, not pushing the lane, not destroying the tower, not really having any reason to put pressure on the opponents for them to return to their own lane)

[crayze]

I don't think Discharge is that problematic for Succubus to be honest. The damage isn't that much and you still get healed pretty well. I'd send Succubus, Puppet, Soulstealer, Arachna, Hellbringer, maybe Defiler.. vs CD.

[tanis1]

Succubus would be the last one you'd put against CD as her laning tools will slow her down instantly allowing corrupted to retaliate pretty hard. If you want to force early static discharge from CD for some reason you can put her mid, but expect to lose that lane very quickly.

On the first page I said theoretically Nymphora can also work. I just did it and I sent CD back to base 3 times before level 6. http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=33166544

sounds like you laned against someone terrible... and surprise! this is who you were laning against:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/player_stats.php?aid=1648762

really, only retards get hit by pod during the laning phase against a solo nymph

[TDA101]

Succubus would handle it well, but would screw u over later if your lineup sux. Past the laning phase it'd be awkward.

sounds like you laned against someone terrible... and surprise! this is who you were laning against:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/player_stats.php?aid=1648762

really, only retards get hit by pod during the laning phase against a solo nymph
He ate only one pod and that was when he would survive it and was planning to use a healing potion already. Perhaps watch the replay and you'd see what I mean.

[arieLOL]

i think
Defiler: lots of harass + silence to stop diving tides
Hag: probably the best rune whorer out there, if you beat him to the wards you limit what he can do.
Succubus: going to be hard to outfarm but he is never going to kill you and you can kill him if you do it right. I also usually dont like giving most succs mid unless they are aggressive gankers

[stefanowich]

torturer , no joke. it takes a weird skill build though. chains / spikes / chains / spikes / spikes. Dont even go for your small aoe stun, you won't be able to hit him. Im actually really good with cd (usually never go anything under 10-1) and a torturer actually managed to get the first 2 kills against me mid (finished the game 7-2 but still was annoying).

match id: 31295236

that Corrupted sucked so hard, really.

[yyr_]

Id definitely take deadwood for your current situation.

Deadwood has double CD base damage which allows you to last hit long before he can, which overcomes the problem of his crazy animation.

Deadwood has a huge base strength and gain making his harassment a little less harsh.

You will kill him at 6 if you land your stun.

D-wood is an amazing ganker to support your sidelanes.

[SilentSage]

Well, I just played CD mid today, and I was outlaned by FA....then again, I think it was a difference in skill rather than the hero itself though....

But on topic, I think a deadwood with a Iron Buckler could compete against a CD

[Kingkongb]

Id definitely take deadwood for your current situation.

Deadwood has double CD base damage which allows you to last hit long before he can, which overcomes the problem of his crazy animation.

Deadwood has a huge base strength and gain making his harassment a little less harsh.

You will kill him at 6 if you land your stun.

D-wood is an amazing ganker to support your sidelanes.

Deadwood just as any other melee hero would get thrown out of the lane after feeding CD a couple of kills. With conduit there is nothing you can do. When deadwood is lvl 6 corrupted will be 8. Deadwood has shitarmor nowadays so he can't really go mid anymore.

FA has decent attackanimation and in that sense she can put up a fight against corrupted. But CD can just put out alot more damage so if archer misses a stun she dies.

Arachna however is a great counter with her armor to take away conduit, slow to keep him at bay and excellent attackanimation.


torturer , no joke. it takes a weird skill build though. chains / spikes / chains / spikes / spikes. Dont even go for your small aoe stun, you won't be able to hit him. Im actually really good with cd (usually never go anything under 10-1) and a torturer actually managed to get the first 2 kills against me mid (finished the game 7-2 but still was annoying).

match id: 31295236

Where do you get off getting stats before conduit? That is sickening dude.

Deadwood just as any other melee hero would get thrown out of the lane after feeding CD a couple of kills. With conduit there is nothing you can do. When deadwood is lvl 6 corrupted will be 8. Deadwood has shitarmor nowadays so he can't really go mid anymore.

FA has decent attackanimation and in that sense she can put up a fight against corrupted. But CD can just put out alot more damage so if archer misses a stun she dies.

Arachna however is a great counter with her armor to take away conduit, slow to keep him at bay and excellent attackanimation.



Where do you get off getting stats before conduit? That is sickening dude.
Deadwood can deal with corrupted just fine. If Corrupted tries anything on deadwood, deadwood can just grasp and take a few steps back. Then if deadwood has good runecontrol he can easily drain corrupted's life and kill him at level 6. Deadwood is one of the fewer heroes that can outlasthit corrupted and withstand his harass at the same time.

[Kingkongb]

Deadwood can deal with corrupted just fine. If Corrupted tries anything on deadwood, deadwood can just grasp and take a few steps back. Then if deadwood has good runecontrol he can easily drain corrupted's life and kill him at level 6. Deadwood is one of the fewer heroes that can outlasthit corrupted and withstand his harass at the same time.

Ridicoulus statement. You have probably played against real shitty corrupteds. With deadwoods recent armor nerf he can't withstand harass from glacius autoattacks. And have you ever heard of conduit?

If deadwood tries to lasthit he will get that nasty thing on him, he will take alot of damage, get his own lasthitting ability nerfed and be forced to fall back. All this for virtually no mana cost from corrupted disciple. With corrupted on lvl 3 and conduit on lvl 2 deadwood will be forced out of the lane. If he tries to go for the runes he better hit his grasps otherwise he is dead.

Why do people think deadwood even works mid anymore? I mean if you bottle abuse with courier maybe he can get some CS from throwing logs and using grasp against CD but thats about it.

Ridicoulus statement. You have probably played against real shitty corrupteds. With deadwoods recent armor nerf he can't withstand harass from glacius autoattacks. And have you ever heard of conduit?

Perhaps it's just you that plays a shitty deadwood. And I've also played a fair bit of CD, I know about conduit.


If deadwood tries to lasthit he will get that nasty thing on him,
Maybe...

he will take alot of damage,
Not really

get his own lasthitting ability nerfed and be forced to fall back.
Here's the thing, conduit is an effect over time, so you can last hit like 3-4 creeps without issues (because you are deadwood) then walk out of conduit range and if disciple follows you you get a free grasp. 3 of those grasps and CD is dead, unless you were stupid enough to level uproot over rotten grasp.


All this for virtually no mana cost from corrupted disciple. With corrupted on lvl 3 and conduit on lvl 2 deadwood will be forced out of the lane. If he tries to go for the runes he better hit his grasps otherwise he is dead.
Deadwood doesn't get forced for ****, he will be using his regen a lot sure, but there's nothing happening that a buckler and/or some regen can't fix.


Why do people think deadwood even works mid anymore? I mean if you bottle abuse with courier maybe he can get some CS from throwing logs and using grasp against CD but thats about it.
1. Deadwood's main lane is still middle. His opponent has very little to do with that; it's a map control decision, not a farmwise one.
2. When Deadwood has a bottle he has superior harass, it gets even better when he's ferrying that bottle like notailomg did vs wLs's vindicator.
3. Intecepting people heading for a rune isn't hard, you can even push the lane before that and then have them delay their rune approach.

And finally, using skills to obtain lane control is the way to go with deadwood, this is now and this always has been. It doesn't matter who is against you, you'll want to be hitting your grasps on them as much as possible. And when the oppertunity arrives you kill them.

[Rubenros]

match id: 31295236

What was that, a 1400+ game? If you think you did close to good there that's embarrassing, I can tell you right now that a torturer wouldn't stand a chance against me as cd.

[Killstealing]

Perhaps it's just you that plays a shitty deadwood. And I've also played a fair bit of CD, I know about conduit.

Maybe...

Not really

Here's the thing, conduit is an effect over time, so you can last hit like 3-4 creeps without issues (because you are deadwood) then walk out of conduit range and if disciple follows you you get a free grasp. 3 of those grasps and CD is dead, unless you were stupid enough to level uproot over rotten grasp.
Deadwood doesn't get forced for ****, he will be using his regen a lot sure, but there's nothing happening that a buckler and/or some regen can't fix.

1. Deadwood's main lane is still middle. His opponent has very little to do with that; it's a map control decision, not a farmwise one.
2. When Deadwood has a bottle he has superior harass, it gets even better when he's ferrying that bottle like notailomg did vs wLs's vindicator.
3. Intecepting people heading for a rune isn't hard, you can even push the lane before that and then have them delay their rune approach.

And finally, using skills to obtain lane control is the way to go with deadwood, this is now and this always has been. It doesn't matter who is against you, you'll want to be hitting your grasps on them as much as possible. And when the oppertunity arrives you kill them.

DW's strength was his insane base damage, armor and grasp. CD will not get grasped because he will have eyes in his head to look at the incredibly obvious animation. If you want to do it from fog, no dice! A good player will put down a ward on the enemy ramp. His insane base damage + hatchet (if you suck at lasthitting) are still major factors, true, but corrupted will just start draining, and contrary to what you said, "quickly hitting 3-4 creeps before running" means you will have -60 damage (at least!) for a whopping 10 seconds. 10 seconds of dealing less damage than a lvl 1 glacius. Try to lasthit with that, sport. Also armor nerf lololol

DW's strength was his insane base damage, armor and grasp. CD will not get grasped because he will have eyes in his head to look at the incredibly obvious animation. If you want to do it from fog, no dice! A good player will put down a ward on the enemy ramp. His insane base damage + hatchet (if you suck at lasthitting) are still major factors, true, but corrupted will just start draining, and contrary to what you said, "quickly hitting 3-4 creeps before running" means you will have -60 damage (at least!) for a whopping 10 seconds. 10 seconds of dealing less damage than a lvl 1 glacius. Try to lasthit with that, sport. Also armor nerf lololol
During those 10 seconds, there's nothing to kill anyways:p But you should only be within range of the creepwave to last hit, not stay in there and wonder why his conduit is on you. Grasps can be spotted and heard yeah; and that means that you want to predict where disciple is going to run towards if you launch one on him. So while the first is slightly behind him, for 2 reasons: 1. To check whether he's an idiot(he stays) 2. The default fleeing direction is running back.
Once you get his evasive pattern you can put grasp in his path and still get him. If all else fails though, just oakbolt and grasp.

[Killstealing]

During those 10 seconds, there's nothing to kill anyways:p But you should only be within range of the creepwave to last hit, not stay in there and wonder why his conduit is on you. Grasps can be spotted and heard yeah; and that means that you want to predict where disciple is going to run towards if you launch one on him. So while the first is slightly behind him, for 2 reasons: 1. To check whether he's an idiot(he stays) 2. The default fleeing direction is running back.
Once you get his evasive pattern you can put grasp in his path and still get him. If all else fails though, just oakbolt and grasp.

Are you saying you can lasthit an entire creep wave in 4 seconds? Even with DW, your attack speed is roughly 0.8 attacks per second so even when all creeps are at say, 1 hp, you could only lasthit 3 creeps. This means either 0 denies, 0 lasthits or some eldritch combination of the 2. Add in the fact that creeps spawn at more than 1 hp and you can see why you are outlaned by CD. Also conduit stays on while CD has vision and since he has a ward on your ramp, lulz. As an added note, you eat a slow/damage when you oakbolt CD, and he can just swap 'evasive patterns' if he is smarter than a chipmunk. Honestly, if you play against razors that run back only, you shouldn't talk about strategy concerning them...

[trollfac3]

If you lose to XXHEROHEREXX with Puppet, you are bad.

/thread

[Oppie]

Jayrod couldn't mid his way out of a wet paper bag against me laying corrupted disciple.

[iGame]

Defiler

[Killstealing]

how about soulstealer tbh, even with -20 dmg his nukes still hurt like hell and if you towerdive him he just triplehands you

[Kingkongb]

During those 10 seconds, there's nothing to kill anyways:p But you should only be within range of the creepwave to last hit, not stay in there and wonder why his conduit is on you. Grasps can be spotted and heard yeah; and that means that you want to predict where disciple is going to run towards if you launch one on him. So while the first is slightly behind him, for 2 reasons: 1. To check whether he's an idiot(he stays) 2. The default fleeing direction is running back.
Once you get his evasive pattern you can put grasp in his path and still get him. If all else fails though, just oakbolt and grasp.

Just to give you some numbers through practice mode. I tested using conduit lvl 2 on deadwood that was autoing creeps in the river and then running away with him letting CD follow. They where both on lvl 3.

I didn't run in between hits with CD and neither of them had boots. When deadwood got to his safeplace at the tower he had taken several hits, CDs damage was 90-120 while DWs was 22-25 or something like that. I didn't use electric tide either.

This was with 4 ticks of conduit. All 10 ticks and DW gets - damage while corrupteds damage just gets silly. Now if corrupted places himself in an offensive position of deadwoods creeps how do you expect that tree to get any lasthits at all? As soon as he gets close he will get raped.

This is a shitty test and I know that but good players probably gets more then 4 ticks of conduit. With correct positioning probably all 10. Your logic completely fails since no melee hero can get close to corrupted without getting raped.

And you are wrong midheroes ARE picked to get farmed and hinder others farm. Pharaoh might be the only exception simply because he has so much range with his abilities that he doesn't need alot of farm to initiate ganks. Few picks pebbles mid in tournament games eventhough he is a far better ganker then deadwood.

Good teams ward and stay back when mid calls MIA. DW becomes pretty strong when he hits 6 and that's fun for him but if he allows CD to get freefarm your team will probably lose the game. He wont get many ganks of without portalkey and he sure as hell wont be able to farm it mid.

You have no arguments to support what you are saying while I have given plenty.

[Passus]

cd is too easy mid, 1 skill to harrass with, get a tb and use 2 nukes to bring him down

Just to give you some numbers through practice mode. I tested using conduit lvl 2 on deadwood that was autoing creeps in the river and then running away with him letting CD follow. They where both on lvl 3.

TL;DR

You have no arguments to support what you are saying while I have given plenty.
Ok, here's the key difference: I'm talking about during games, not theory or practice mode. I have played vs CDs, I have played CD myself. If you so much as got a brain with any form of melee mid then avoiding conduit and harass comes pretty natural. You can last hit 4 creeps from either creepwave before being forced to return to your tower and let conduit wear off(that's a limit, not a goal). If CD chases you and reaches your tower range he dies to rotten grasp+tower, if CD stands in an offensive position rotten grasp will be easy to land and hurt him significantly. This is all just standard lane control for deadwood.

[Sauron`]

Defiler seems to be the best option.
I always do well with her against CD

[Kingkongb]

Ok, here's the key difference: I'm talking about during games, not theory or practice mode. I have played vs CDs, I have played CD myself. If you so much as got a brain with any form of melee mid then avoiding conduit and harass comes pretty natural. You can last hit 4 creeps from either creepwave before being forced to return to your tower and let conduit wear off(that's a limit, not a goal). If CD chases you and reaches your tower range he dies to rotten grasp+tower, if CD stands in an offensive position rotten grasp will be easy to land and hurt him significantly. This is all just standard lane control for deadwood.

You dont have time to lashit 4 creeps you have to back as soon as he gets close to you to avoid heavy harass.

Oh you mean that root that is less reliable then torturers stun? Yeah that will sure show that disciple. And it deals *gasp* 100 magic damage per second.

So you base your argument on harassing with an unreliable high mana cost root, knowing fully well that even if you happen to land it you can't follow up on it. If you do you will eat max tidedamage and get conduit in your face. Impressive lanecontrol bro.

[Killstealing]

cd is too easy mid, 1 skill to harrass with, get a tb and use 2 nukes to bring him down

you're only nuking yourself :P

[Sauron`]

Dual lane is the BEST way to deal with corrupted, 2 ranged harassers. same with BH mid

[RogerDodger]

Arachna hits harder and can orbwalk him to death, pretty much the only guaranteed counter.

[R3NN11]

Arachna hits harder and can orbwalk him to death, pretty much the only guaranteed counter.

Arachna doesn't hit harder. But she is about the only ranged hero I think can work. Due to the -MS/AS Web + Spider that renders CD nearly useless, and her carapace to get rid of conduit...

[Efertin]

A decent vindi will make him useless, as in, not completely retarded who goes into 600 range after curse, since he can't gank, and pretty quickly, his ability to farm diminishes heavily, too.

Soulstealer can punish him pretty fast as well, if the CD ****s up a bit and soul gets a few souls, but if CD plays very well, soul can't do anything.

You can always put double stun and laugh, but that's the case for any lane. Most disciples are terrible anyway and either get raped mid by any solo or just rice 35 mins before even trying to gank.

[Debbye]

I hate corrupted. I laned with bh twice against corrupted whose skills were equal to mine or higher. And my farm was screwed pretty bad. He just stood in front of the creeps and when i tried to dive the wave he harassed me and denied pretty good. I think a good corrupted is a capable bh mid counter.

[Shipooki]

Defiler is going mid against CD in competive matches.A well played SS is also an option.

[Killstealing]

I hate corrupted. I laned with bh twice against corrupted whose skills were equal to mine or higher. And my farm was screwed pretty bad. He just stood in front of the creeps and when i tried to dive the wave he harassed me and denied pretty good. I think a good corrupted is a capable bh mid counter.
might be because BH isn't that good of a mid hero. Heroes like CD and SS really own the lane, BH depends on the enemy not being able to lasthit, so theoretically a :keep: could lane vs BH mid, he hits much harder than BH so he could out-last-hit BH and every time BH wants to land a hit on tree, he'll get a harder hit back. Harder hits + higher hp would work pretty well I think.
Back to the point, to counter CD you need to be able to score lasthits and slow the ****er down. Something to beat his mana would be pretty neat as well. I'm almost afraid to propose this but.. WS?

[Blazinghand]

Send two heroes mid and have a strong solo in one of the side lanes. With two heroes, you should be able to outlane corrupted disciple.

[garblax]

I don't understand how people are saying any melee heroe has a good chance verus CD. I mean seriously, he has this skill called Corrupted Conduit.

[sHoWTiMe]

:souls::succ::slit::madm::arac::defi::wret:

These can work fairly well.

[Quickfix]

Vindicator does work well against good CD players, but as a mid, he's a poor option because he offers little to help out lanes.

Arachna is a good choice, but you'll want CD harassed enough so that you can finish him off with the spider. If you leave too much health, you won't be able to orbwalk or you'll risk dying, and if he doesn't kill you, he'll get away.

[IIO_OII]

:souls::succ::slit::madm::arac::defi::wret:

These can work fairly well.
srsly :madm:?

srsly :madm:?
As soon as you get conduit on you you go invis and conduit wears off. It's so clever it's retarded.

[Killstealing]

As soon as you get conduit on you you go invis and conduit wears off. But you will get pwned by CD's harass and first skill. It's retarded.
ftfy :D

[R4GE]

Arachna hits harder and can orbwalk him to death, pretty much the only guaranteed counter.

correct me if im wrong, but if u tried to orbwalk him then wouldnt static discharge proc on every hit ?! O_o

[Killstealing]

correct me if im wrong, but if u tried to orbwalk him then wouldnt static discharge proc on every hit ?! O_o
does webbed shot remove sage's lore?

[Blazinghand]

does webbed shot remove sage's lore?

Nope. Against Vindi, take a level in carapace.

[JazzMan]

Puppet Master, Wretched Hag, Soul Reaper, Arachna
agree with that.

:pupp: Puppet is enough harrasive hero to counter cd.
:wret: wretched hag won't die with blink and nice attack range.
:soulr: Soul reaper with heal and good range is also counterable.
:arac: Arachana is strong enough to keep Corrupted away.


I do not propose any melee hero, because of few reasons.
1. CD has really nice harras, even If u play Zephyr u get harmed.
2. Low range, low basic and low HP increase heroes will certainly get punched against him.

[Blackspade]

I play CD alot, and I never have problem from 1-5 with any heroes. But, the only 2 that come to mind are SR and PM, everything else just hides up the hill and fogs.

[Alistair]

:phar: This guy.