View Full Version : Arachna
saden99
08-07-2009, 12:59 PM
No joke. I'm bringing Arachna up again.
Every time someone says she is overpowered there is someone else that always brings up her low melee armor and low health. Played quite a few games with her. My first time I died maybe twice and killed about 10-15 people. Now when I play her I don't die unless I get ambushed at the beginning and if I get enough money then everyone on the other team is screwed.
There are few heroes that can counter her well (Magebane is pretty good at it, but who wants to play him every time someone goes Arachna?). The damage on skills needs to be looked at. Webbed shot doesn't have any damage on it (according to skill), but it does around 50-60 even at the beginning of the game and it can be spammed. It also slows you and you're basically screwed unless the Arachna decides not to kill you.
Hardened Carapace should be toned down or modified. Keep the magic armor but slow the Arachna down 20% for each level. So when you've got 35 magic armor you should be moving at 20% normal speed unless you have + to movement speed. The slow can be countered, of course, with the items but you'll still be slower then someone chasing after you. Maybe it can increase magic armor and decrease melee armor?
Precision is fine. Can't see why it should be nerfed or modified. It's a great skill to have around your group.
Spider sting: Ahhh...yes. Spider sting. Whenever my Arachna got to level 6 I knew right then and there that I could pretty much wipe out anyone that tried to kill me. Even if there were two people I could still work with that. Spider the stealther (unless there wasn't one in which case spider the caster) and web shot the melee or...other caster if there is one. What's better is if I got higher level I already have hardened carapace so the caster isn't going to do well against me anyways.
Another issue seems to be the damage. I don't know what it is about the Arachna but I never seem to have mana issues. EVER. On every other caster type (int classes) I do. Arachna is an Agility class though which doesn't quite make sense and I never have isssues. EVER. With the int casters I have to get items with +mana and +mana regen. And even then I easily run out.
Not with Arachna. In a 5v5 fight where every Hero meets I can gaurentee that if just one person doesn't know what to do on the other team that they will all die. By the time a 5v5 lasts long enough I've got my damage at 230-260 and I'm killing people easily. If anyone runs then they're dead anyways thanks to webbed shot and enhanced marchers (if I get them).
All in all Archna is a very stable Hero. But she needs to be modified so that she isn't unkillable or so she can be run from if needed.
Bali1
08-07-2009, 01:04 PM
You know what Arachna needs?
A COMPLETE REWORK.
xxzxcuzx_me
08-07-2009, 01:10 PM
Arachna thread again ... >_>
I fear this will never stop
Nuk_Duck
08-07-2009, 01:14 PM
All in all Archna is a very stable Hero. But she needs to be modified so that she isn't unkillable or so she can be run from if needed.
Wow. Is it me or does everyone on this game have a bug that hides "Homecoming Stone" from their supplies shop.
Hibi1
08-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Arachna isn't as good as people say. Just like madman. I mean in any competitive line up you build do you see mad man? Nope. Mad man and archna are fine. Don't feed them, gank them often, and you'll be fine.
xxzxcuzx_me
08-07-2009, 01:20 PM
Arachna isn't as good as people say. Just like madman. I mean in any competitive line up you build do you see mad man? Nope. Mad man and archna are fine. Don't feed them, gank them often, and you'll be fine.
This
Chris
08-07-2009, 01:25 PM
Carry a tp. It's the ultimate win counter to Arach. The sooner you learn this the sooner you can stop complaining.
Chronos is win vs Arach by mid game. Her ult is useless against him and he has enough slow/disable to counter her slow. Just learn to play him.
Rhaegor
08-07-2009, 01:25 PM
People just need to learn how to play against her better. When she is on the opposing team, you better beware of her slow. If you don't watch out for it, and play properly, yes, you will get owned. If the other team plays well against her, she will get worked over early and is a non-threat.
SolarFlare22
08-07-2009, 01:27 PM
Wow. Is it me or does everyone on this game have a bug that hides "Homecoming Stone" from their supplies shop.
So it would seem.
Arachna is a pubstomper that sucks if the opposing team knows what they're doing. She is no different from Viper or Drow. Learn2Play and carry a TP.
Gallifrey
08-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Arachna is a new Hero NOT made by Icefrog, so it was supposed to be... weird.
S2Games should just copy DotA Heroes.. Still waiting for my Enchantress.
Rengan
08-07-2009, 02:06 PM
give her ult a 45sec-1min CD or make her webbed shot apply a nonstacking 40% slow and she'll be fine. Really though, she doesn't need any changes, people just need to get used to fighting her and learn how to counter.
Hrimfisk
08-07-2009, 02:12 PM
Skill 1
retarded amounts of movement slow, no cooldown, low mana cost = continous slow with no chance of either running away or to arachna
Skill 2
28% + damage. seriously? just think about that for a second. imagine if arachna had, lets say, wingbow? that boosts her attack at lvl 10 to like 200
Skill 3
not that overpowered but ive actually pretty much absorbed a fully leveled and boosted blazing strike with this skill
Skill 4
this stupid spider can run at TOP speed, so no matter what can hit you. and on top of that has like 50 damage and insane movement speed? and on top of that the cooldown is REDICILOUSLY low for a skill like that. come on, thats just asking for complaints
Overall:
Arachna is the hero to complain about
On a side note:
ive played Arachna, and went 20/0. ive played against arachna, and they went like 15/2...seriously?
Temptation
08-07-2009, 02:28 PM
My brother just summed up my thoughts exactly:
Balance in DOTA was there, and it was because even if you got a shitty hero..you could man up and still own
Honestly some heroes are better than others, and some are better depending who is using them. Do I think Archna is OP? Yesssssssss but not to the extent that she cant be beaten.
SMACKD0WN
08-07-2009, 02:39 PM
Skill 1
retarded amounts of movement slow, no cooldown, low mana cost = continous slow with no chance of either running away or to arachna
Skill 2
28% + damage. seriously? just think about that for a second. imagine if arachna had, lets say, wingbow? that boosts her attack at lvl 10 to like 200
Skill 3
not that overpowered but ive actually pretty much absorbed a fully leveled and boosted blazing strike with this skill
Skill 4
this stupid spider can run at TOP speed, so no matter what can hit you. and on top of that has like 50 damage and insane movement speed? and on top of that the cooldown is REDICILOUSLY low for a skill like that. come on, thats just asking for complaints
Overall:
Arachna is the hero to complain about
On a side note:
ive played Arachna, and went 20/0. ive played against arachna, and they went like 15/2...seriously?
your playing noobs?
Sadpandas
08-07-2009, 02:40 PM
Well Archana is a favorite of mine and I am not one of these FOTM types, I played her pre buff when people said she sucked. She is a great hero and now possibly a lil bit over the top but not much really.
Early game you need to make sure you have the right heroes laning against her. Often times Ill have two melee who have no disables to really toss at me and run the second I hit em with a web, this makes my life very very easy and leads to me getting tons of gold and xp and being scary.
If you lane against her properly she becomes much less of a threat. Early game Archana is terribly squishy. If you can close on her, she is dead. You need to get some ganks on her early and have someone set to make a lot of denies. This will slow her down and make her far less a problem.
Most people just get smacked by web and run for the hills.
Late game I find her pretty average. Her spider ult late is easily killed by most heroes very quickly (though again most people just let the spider live and attack then). Late game she is still good against some heroes like Thunder bringer where hardened carapce and a shaman headress makes him a kitten. However endgame other heroes have more damage output, stronger ults, better disables and so on and I feel endgame she is as I said pretty average for a agi dps hero.
Her strongest moments are early game against people who allow her to contol the lane and mid game where her ult is hard to deal with and she can control and kite easy with web.
xxzxcuzx_me
08-07-2009, 02:40 PM
On a side note:
ive played Arachna, and went 20/0. ive played against arachna, and they went like 15/2...seriously?
That's really representative.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 02:43 PM
Carry a tp. It's the ultimate win counter to Arach. The sooner you learn this the sooner you can stop complaining.
Chronos is win vs Arach by mid game. Her ult is useless against him and he has enough slow/disable to counter her slow. Just learn to play him.
Wow. Is it me or does everyone on this game have a bug that hides "Homecoming Stone" from their supplies shop.
"How do I counter Arachna?" "Run."
THAT'S NOT OK.
Chris
08-07-2009, 02:48 PM
"How do I counter Arachna?" "Run."
THAT'S NOT OK.
Protip - Yourdoinitrong.
The only way time you should have to counter her is when you are in a position where you are going to get ganked.
She is BEYOND useless in teamfights as she can't disable and does single target damage.
So tell me, why are you complaining that when she tries to gank you, you cant lolwtf turn around and kill her? Imo, running is fine in the only situation where she is a threat.
xxzxcuzx_me
08-07-2009, 02:49 PM
"How do I counter Arachna?" "Run."
THAT'S NOT OK.
Thats just the case for a 1on1 situation and ur the weaker one... i can't say it often enough: think -> post.
U don't run if u face hero x 1on1 and u know that u will lose? It's just that u can't escape her 1on1 without help or a tp, that's all.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 03:02 PM
Protip - Yourdoinitrong.
The only way time you should have to counter her is when you are in a position where you are going to get ganked.
She is BEYOND useless in teamfights as she can't disable and does single target damage.
So tell me, why are you complaining that when she tries to gank you, you cant lolwtf turn around and kill her? Imo, running is fine in the only situation where she is a threat.
I'm just replying specifically to people who use the arguement of using a tp or running. Ya sure you can stun her, but if you're a str hero, well you can basically say GG. Also in a team fight, what's stopping her from hiding in the jungle and focusing on ONE guy? If she does that it can become a 4v5 no problem. Or she can single target each enemy hero and slow them, providing easier nuke opportunities for her team.
Thats just the case for a 1on1 situation and ur the weaker one... i can't say it often enough: think -> post.
U don't run if u face hero x 1on1 and u know that u will lose? It's just that u can't escape her 1on1 without help or a tp, that's all.
To use a Tp don't you have to not have taken damage for 3 seconds? What if she slow's you and she's pelting you with auto attack, what then? In most cases, that's what's happened.
Chris
08-07-2009, 03:07 PM
I'm just replying specifically to people who use the arguement of using a tp or running. Ya sure you can stun her, but if you're a str hero, well you can basically say GG.
To use a Tp don't you have to not have taken damage for 3 seconds? What if she slow's you and she's pelting you with auto attack, what then? In most cases, that's what's happened.
Or tp out... Just don't fight her one on one if you know you are going to lose. Run. Live to fight another day. TP out.
If you can't take auto attack damage for 3 seconds you're still doinitrong.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 03:13 PM
Or tp out... Just don't fight her one on one if you know you are going to lose. Run. Live to fight another day. TP out.
If you can't take auto attack damage for 3 seconds you're still doinitrong.
That's the thing, she doesn't let you. Q-autoattack-kite-Q-autoattack-kite-Q-autoattack-kite. She doesn't even kite if you're trying to use a TP.
xxzxcuzx_me
08-07-2009, 03:16 PM
That's the thing, she doesn't let you. Q-autoattack-kite-Q-autoattack-kite-Q-autoattack-kite.
She can't stop u from porting out?
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 03:17 PM
She can't stop u from porting out?
You have to NOT take damage for 3 seconds, her autoattack can be quicker then that...
I agree with Liquor. This whole "RUNNING FROM ARACHNA MAKES HER BALANCED" is ridiculous. If the only thing you can suggest for a person jumped by her is to carry a Homecoming Stone at ALL TIMES, then the game is "doinitrong"
Should every hero be able to kill Arachna 1v1? No. Should every hero stand a chance at least getting away? Yes.
Chris
08-07-2009, 03:24 PM
You have to NOT take damage for 3 seconds, her autoattack can be quicker then that...
On a blink not a homecoming stone good buddy.
I agree with Liquor. This whole "RUNNING FROM ARACHNA MAKES HER BALANCED" is ridiculous. If the only thing you can suggest for a person jumped by her is to carry a Homecoming Stone at ALL TIMES, then the game is "doinitrong"
Should every hero be able to kill Arachna 1v1? No. Should every hero stand a chance at least getting away? Yes.
The whole concept of being able to fight her when you are jumped is ridiculous imo. It's a gank for a reason. If you simply can't bring yourself to carry that tp then you don't deserve to get away. So what if you can't saunter your way to a tower because she is slowing you, alternate methods are there for a reason.
Dota has an orb slow and noone cries about it. You know why? People understand that it's not imbalanced.
Alright, to clear up some confusion for everyone - here is my 2 cents.
Stuns always have, and always will be the alpha and beta factor in winning any game. Arachna THRIVES on a solo lane, simply because there is no 'Tinker' in this game yet, don't allow the Arach to solo. 2-man mid and don't risk the game being in the hands of a 1v1 solo mid scenario. Chances are if the arach is beating her lane, you're going to have a much harder time dealing with her later.
To anyone that's saying "l2p, arach eZ mode lol" I'll ask you this: What happens when their team is working together just as well as yours and they have an indefinite slow / carry hero? You have a hero that can only be *effectively* killed (And I'm talking mid / late game) by other carries and physical damage. (Note: Webs dispell any debuff on arach) and she has a massive magic resistance if they player is clutch.
In my honest opinion, I think Arach is a little over powered at the moment. The noobs in this thread bashing noobs about simply 'buying a tp scroll' to *COUNTER?* this hero need to smarten up. Sure, you tp'd out and now arach is still free farming - it'll save your hide but it boils down to if you let the hero control her lane early on she'll start controlling the map.
My 2 cents.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 03:30 PM
Alright, to clear up some confusion for everyone - here is my 2 cents.
Stuns always have, and always will be the alpha and beta factor in winning any game. Arachna THRIVES on a solo lane, simply because there is no 'Tinker' in this game yet, don't allow the Arach to solo. 2-man mid and don't risk the game being in the hands of a 1v1 solo mid scenario. Chances are if the arach is beating her lane, you're going to have a much harder time dealing with her later.
To anyone that's saying "l2p, arach eZ mode lol" I'll ask you this: What happens when their team is working together just as well as yours and they have an indefinite slow / carry hero? You have a hero that can only be *effectively* killed (And I'm talking mid / late game) by other carries and physical damage. (Note: Webs dispell any debuff on arach) and she has a massive magic resistance if they player is clutch.
In my honest opinion, I think Arach is a little over powered at the moment. The noobs in this thread bashing noobs about simply 'buying a tp scroll' to *COUNTER?* this hero need to smarten up. Sure, you tp'd out and now arach is still free farming - it'll save your hide but it boils down to if you let the hero control her lane early on she'll start controlling the map.
My 2 cents.
This.
Chris
08-07-2009, 03:32 PM
Alright, to clear up some confusion for everyone - here is my 2 cents.
Stuns always have, and always will be the alpha and beta factor in winning any game. Arachna THRIVES on a solo lane, simply because there is no 'Tinker' in this game yet, don't allow the Arach to solo. 2-man mid and don't risk the game being in the hands of a 1v1 solo mid scenario. Chances are if the arach is beating her lane, you're going to have a much harder time dealing with her later.
To anyone that's saying "l2p, arach eZ mode lol" I'll ask you this: What happens when their team is working together just as well as yours and they have an indefinite slow / carry hero? You have a hero that can only be *effectively* killed (And I'm talking mid / late game) by other carries and physical damage. (Note: Webs dispell any debuff on arach) and she has a massive magic resistance if they player is clutch.
In my honest opinion, I think Arach is a little over powered at the moment. The noobs in this thread bashing noobs about simply 'buying a tp scroll' to *COUNTER?* this hero need to smarten up. Sure, you tp'd out and now arach is still free farming - it'll save your hide but it boils down to if you let the hero control her lane early on she'll start controlling the map.
My 2 cents.
You just missed half of what we have been saying bro. Sure, if she is dominating your lane and you tp out she is freefarming you you are going to suck. We are talking about getting away from her gank. If you play smart she can't dominate your lane regardless.
Bali1
08-07-2009, 03:36 PM
She is BEYOND useless in teamfights as she can't disable and does single target damage.
Your opinion is invalid.
You are the weakest link, goodbye.
The whole concept of being able to fight her when you are jumped is ridiculous imo. It's a gank for a reason. If you simply can't bring yourself to carry that tp then you don't deserve to get away. So what if you can't saunter your way to a tower because she is slowing you, alternate methods are there for a reason.
Dota has an orb slow and noone cries about it. You know why? People understand that it's not imbalanced.
A gank is when you get killed more than one person. The reason a gank is understood to be nigh impossible to get away from without prevention is because you are outnumbered and obviously outpowered.
Arachna can create this effect by only having one of herself.
Let's look at an Arachna gank scenario:
1. Arachna jumps you, you try to run/disable. She slows you and kites you until you are dead. Arachna gets an XP bonus, a gold bonus, another kill and can now free-farm
2. Arachna jumps you, you use Homecoming stone. You live, and are now far from each lane (unless you have PH). Arachna can now free-farm
3. Arachna jumps you, you somehow saunter back to your tower. She flees. You are now farther from your farm spot, Arachna can now free-farm
Can anyone come up with a number 4 that doesn't completely suck for the gankee?
sheee issss going to get nerfed!?!
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 03:42 PM
sheee issss going to get nerfed!?!
I hope.
A gank is when you get killed more than one person. The reason a gank is understood to be nigh impossible to get away from without prevention is because you are outnumbered and obviously outpowered.
Arachna can create this effect by only having one of herself.
Let's look at an Arachna gank scenario:
1. Arachna jumps you, you try to run/disable. She slows you and kites you until you are dead. Arachna gets an XP bonus, a gold bonus, another kill and can now free-farm
2. Arachna jumps you, you use Homecoming stone. You live, and are now far from each lane (unless you have PH). Arachna can now free-farm
3. Arachna jumps you, you somehow saunter back to your tower. She flees. You are now farther from your farm spot, Arachna can now free-farm
Can anyone come up with a number 4 that doesn't completely suck for the gankee?
4. You jump arachna, she slows you, uses her ult, you try and run, she kills you, proceeds to free farm the lane
Oh wait...
You just missed half of what we have been saying bro. Sure, if she is dominating your lane and you tp out she is freefarming you you are going to suck. We are talking about getting away from her gank. If you play smart she can't dominate your lane regardless.
So then what you're saying is, it's not tp scrolls that are the counters - it's wards.
So all of my said points stand, and I also gave you the only reasonable situation where she won't be dominating her lane.
2v1.
Slawtastic
08-07-2009, 03:55 PM
God... balance discussion should be locked to anyone who hasn't played enough to realize a Hero like Arachna isn't overpowered at all.
Single target slightly above average DPS with decent range, no stun, escape mech or lane-staying power, completely useless in a teamfight and impossible to gank with as long as people are bright enough to carry a Homecoming Stone. Can easily be outlaned by most nukers, or anyone bright enough to stay back and only attack when needed, instead of running up to auto-attack or something equally retarded.
Arachna is only dangerous in 1v1 situations, or when she is insanely fed. Ever met an insanely fed Jereziah? Defiler? Electrician? Madman? Pretty much every hero out there except the pure support ones become unstoppable if you let them feed all game. How do you keep her from being fed? Gank her. Just f*cking gank her. She has NO escape mechanism, and can at most, by wasting ulti, keep two of you slowed. Her ulti goes down in a few hits, and one or two heroes with a decent stun/disable is enough to pretty much insta-kill her before she can do anything.
Also, stop using 1v1 situations. If you're good, there won't be any 1v1 situations except early-early-early game.
God... balance discussion should be locked to everyone but me.
Fixed.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 03:58 PM
God... balance discussion should be locked to anyone who hasn't played enough to realize a Hero like Arachna isn't overpowered at all.
Single target slightly above average DPS with decent range, no stun, escape mech or lane-staying power, completely useless in a teamfight and impossible to gank with as long as people are bright enough to carry a Homecoming Stone. Can easily be outlaned by most nukers, or anyone bright enough to stay back and only attack when needed, instead of running up to auto-attack or something equally retarded.
Arachna is only dangerous in 1v1 situations, or when she is insanely fed. Ever met an insanely fed Jereziah? Defiler? Electrician? Madman? Pretty much every hero out there except the pure support ones become unstoppable if you let them feed all game. How do you keep her from being fed? Gank her. Just f*cking gank her. She has NO escape mechanism, and can at most, by wasting ulti, keep two of you slowed. Her ulti goes down in a few hits, and one or two heroes with a decent stun/disable is enough to pretty much insta-kill her before she can do anything.
Also, stop using 1v1 situations. If you're good, there won't be any 1v1 situations except early-early-early game.
Her slow is her escape mechanism, stacking 4 times (i think?) on a single target basically LET'S her get away. Even then she just might try and push her luck to successfully kill you.
Slawtastic
08-07-2009, 04:01 PM
Her slow is her escape mechanism, stacking 4 times (i think?) on a single target basically LET'S her get away. Even then she just might try and push her luck to successfully kill you.
Because you, for some reason, are ganking a 1v1 DPS hero alone? Her slow can't stack 4 times on two heroes.
Also, Predator, Jereziah, anyone with blink, not to mention stunners. They can all reach her even though she is trying to slow them. Don't bring her ulti into this, since it is only ever good in a 1v1 situation, and you shouldn't ever gank a 1v1 dps alone.
Volff
08-07-2009, 04:01 PM
How that web shot? It shouldn't stack so much! Not to mention that drow's frost arrow DOESN'T stack for a reason.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 04:03 PM
Because you, for some reason, are ganking a 1v1 DPS hero alone? Her slow can't stack 4 times on two heroes.
Also, Predator, Jereziah, anyone with blink, not to mention stunners. They can all reach her even though she is trying to slow them. Don't bring her ulti into this, since it is only ever good in a 1v1 situation, and you shouldn't ever gank a 1v1 dps alone.
I didn't say any of that. Did you even read what i said? You said she didn't have an escape mechanism, i was merely correcting you.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 04:07 PM
It is my understanding ... that Arachna is almost certainly going to get "Balanced" next round of nerfs/buffs.
How that is going to play out? I have no idea. But rest assured, it's all but guaranteed at this point.
...
Uh, source?
saden99
08-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Wow this thread shot off rather quickly.
I've read all the posts and I agree with everyone. I agree with the people that say you can carry a Homecoming Stone to get away from her and I agree with the people that think it's odd that you should carry a Homecoming stone for the sole purpose of getting away from someone.
To the people saying that Arachna is great when 1v1'ing a lane and not 2v1'ing....you're pretty much wrong at least in the games I've played. I always try to solo my lane, but if someone wants Precision then so be it. And if someone DOES duo with me in a lane then whoever is in the same lane on the other team is NEVER going to level and will probably die as soon as I hit level 6.
Arachna is a "burst" DPS. In saying that I mean only her Ultimate. It does a lot of damage for the time that it is alive and the Arachna can spam Web Shot on the target to kill it. There are counters to Arachna that I know full well. I've been killed by some and I've also killed them...usually only need 1 teammate to help out and distract or keep targets stunned/disabled.
I don't want Arachna made useless. I want her skills modified slightly. The Harden Carapace is a bit much. Makes an Int completely useless against her for...9 seconds? 6 seconds? More than enough time to kill them unless they have...O' wait a Homecoming Stone. I suggested tacking a slow onto it. It's easy to get marchers or even post haste to counter that slow and since it only lasts for 9 seconds it isn't THAT bad. Would just make her less efficient when she comes into contact with a caster-melee duo.
My comment on webbed shot was purely out of question. I might not have read it correctly, but I don't see any mention of it doing damage, just a slow that stacks. And yet it can be spammed and it does a lot of damage. Is the damage determined by her Agility? By the damage stat that you have?
Forgot to mention that on top of being able to easily get 220-250 damage I can get much higher atk speed and she then becomes completely ridiculous if you EVER happen to meet her 1v1. And NO ONE try to say that even in pro-games you don't meet people 1v1. It happens. It can be rather random but the chances of you winning are slim to none unless you're a counter-hero that knows how to play.
Chris
08-07-2009, 04:28 PM
A gank is when you get killed more than one person. The reason a gank is understood to be nigh impossible to get away from without prevention is because you are outnumbered and obviously outpowered.
Arachna can create this effect by only having one of herself.
Let's look at an Arachna gank scenario:
1. Arachna jumps you, you try to run/disable. She slows you and kites you until you are dead. Arachna gets an XP bonus, a gold bonus, another kill and can now free-farm
2. Arachna jumps you, you use Homecoming stone. You live, and are now far from each lane (unless you have PH). Arachna can now free-farm
3. Arachna jumps you, you somehow saunter back to your tower. She flees. You are now farther from your farm spot, Arachna can now free-farm
Can anyone come up with a number 4 that doesn't completely suck for the gankee?
1. I had to work for like 30 minutes and forgot what we are talking about.
2. I still don't remember what I was going to say, so good game.
Chris
08-07-2009, 04:32 PM
God... balance discussion should be locked to anyone who hasn't played enough to realize a Hero like Arachna isn't overpowered at all.
Single target slightly above average DPS with decent range, no stun, escape mech or lane-staying power, completely useless in a teamfight and impossible to gank with as long as people are bright enough to carry a Homecoming Stone. Can easily be outlaned by most nukers, or anyone bright enough to stay back and only attack when needed, instead of running up to auto-attack or something equally retarded.
Arachna is only dangerous in 1v1 situations, or when she is insanely fed. Ever met an insanely fed Jereziah? Defiler? Electrician? Madman? Pretty much every hero out there except the pure support ones become unstoppable if you let them feed all game. How do you keep her from being fed? Gank her. Just f*cking gank her. She has NO escape mechanism, and can at most, by wasting ulti, keep two of you slowed. Her ulti goes down in a few hits, and one or two heroes with a decent stun/disable is enough to pretty much insta-kill her before she can do anything.
Also, stop using 1v1 situations. If you're good, there won't be any 1v1 situations except early-early-early game.
THIS THIS THIS THIS.
All put together into a nice post.
You can't even argue against it. She isn't this unstoppable force you all make her out to be, and the simple fact that she is so easily countered proves it.
THIS THIS THIS THIS.
All put together into a nice post.
You can't even argue against it. She isn't this unstoppable force you all make her out to be, and the simple fact that she is so easily countered proves it.
Agreed. I knew this would happen as we get more players - more noobs join, and they become the whining voice of the majority. Newer players tend to feed agi heroes or let them farm, and then think they're "overpowered" as they fulfill their roles as the carry. She's actually one of the worst heroes in the game right now, since she contributes absolute jack in a team fight and there are better gankers. Just a single stun to initiate and she's dead. She doesn't even have lane presense without her orb-walking anymore.
Homecoming stone isn't a "counter" to arachna. It should be carried at all times regardless. If you haven't realized this yet you haven't been playing long enough to post in balance discussion IMO.
Efertin
08-07-2009, 04:51 PM
The only thing that feels OP to Arachna about me is the ult, it's a guaranteed kill at 6-9 and past that the cooldown is just stupidly low. It does insane damage. slows, reveals stealth and has a very low CD.
Webbed Shot isn't really that hot, neither is the carapace imo.
Chris
08-07-2009, 04:59 PM
Agreed. I knew this would happen as we get more players - more noobs join, and they become the whining voice of the majority. Newer players tend to feed agi heroes or let them farm, and then think they're "overpowered" as they fulfill their roles as the carry. She's actually one of the worst heroes in the game right now, since she contributes absolute jack in a team fight and there are better gankers. Just a single stun to initiate and she's dead. She doesn't even have lane presense without her orb-walking anymore.
Homecoming stone isn't a "counter" to arachna. It should be carried at all times regardless. If you haven't realized this yet you haven't been playing long enough to post in balance discussion IMO.
TP is an escape if you can juke, as well as fast movement between lanes. In the situations they propose where Unstoppable killing force Arach has somehow got you 1v1 and you are apparently underfarmed enough to not survive I would consider TPing out a perfectly viable option.
It has gotten TERRIBLE in pubs. Just yesterday I am Chronos and had pushed up farther than I should have been. You know who comes to try and kill me? An Arach and Accursed. Seriously? I wish there were emotes so I could /lol as I tp away freely because they have no stun.
The ult is decent but not OP. It's only a guarenteed kill if someone pushes out far enough for you to throw it on them, and chase around with webbed shot. There are other heroes that can just as easily kill someone at level 6 in the same situation, and it becomes useless if the opponent is tower hugging because the spider dies easily to tower shots. She's just a really mediocre hero at best.
@Chris - Yeah, people don't realize stuns win games so everyone picks the carry and thinks they'll "pwn" everyone.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 05:08 PM
TP is an escape if you can juke, as well as fast movement between lanes. In the situations they propose where Unstoppable killing force Arach has somehow got you 1v1 and you are apparently underfarmed enough to not survive I would consider TPing out a perfectly viable option.
It has gotten TERRIBLE in pubs. Just yesterday I am Chronos and had pushed up farther than I should have been. You know who comes to try and kill me? An Arach and Accursed. Seriously? I wish there were emotes so I could /lol as I tp away freely because they have no stun.
They probably wanted to do /lol at chronos.
But seriously. Using a TP just to get away if kind of pointless, i still think it should be used to get into the fight, not out of it (if you have some sort of snare).
Chris
08-07-2009, 05:15 PM
They probably wanted to do /lol at chronos.
But seriously. Using a TP just to get away if kind of pointless, i still think it should be used to get into the fight, not out of it (if you have some sort of snare).
Eh, -AR means you don't always get the best heroes. But their complete failure to get a gank off on me meant that by mid game I was much more farmed than I should have been and proceeded to steamroll them.
Surviving and denying the opposing team is not pointless. Especially as you can just TP to another lane and continue farming.
1. I had to work for like 30 minutes and forgot what we are talking about.
2. I still don't remember what I was going to say, so good game.
What the heck? Troll harder.
THIS THIS THIS THIS.
All put together into a nice post.
You can't even argue against it. She isn't this unstoppable force you all make her out to be, and the simple fact that she is so easily countered proves it.
Your unarguable point is sounding like a broken record.
TP is an escape if you can juke, as well as fast movement between lanes. In the situations they propose where Unstoppable killing force Arach has somehow got you 1v1 and you are apparently underfarmed enough to not survive I would consider TPing out a perfectly viable option.
It has gotten TERRIBLE in pubs. Just yesterday I am Chronos and had pushed up farther than I should have been. You know who comes to try and kill me? An Arach and Accursed. Seriously? I wish there were emotes so I could /lol as I tp away freely because they have no stun.
Arachna and Accursed now have some free farming. Good job! You're a winner.
Eh, -AR means you don't always get the best heroes. But their complete failure to get a gank off on me meant that by mid game I was much more farmed than I should have been and proceeded to steamroll them.
Surviving and denying the opposing team is not pointless. Especially as you can just TP to another lane and continue farming.
You like to play EM don't you?
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 06:48 PM
Eh, -AR means you don't always get the best heroes. But their complete failure to get a gank off on me meant that by mid game I was much more farmed than I should have been and proceeded to steamroll them.
Surviving and denying the opposing team is not pointless. Especially as you can just TP to another lane and continue farming.
I never said denying was pointless, i actually think denying is an essential, and needed part of the game. But TPing to another lane is fine, just TPing back to base to avoid ONE hero is useless.
Arachna and Accursed now have some free farming. Good job! You're a winner.
So he was supposed to let them kill him? He already admitted he pushed too far. If you're going to try to troll someone, at least make sense.
Oh wait, I just fed the troll. Nicely done, sir.
cripling
08-07-2009, 08:43 PM
They're probably gonna lower her agi per lvl gain and change her ulti into something that doesnt give her as much burst/killing power on single targets early/mid game. Maybe the Drow ulti with agi?
That's what I'd do atleast :P.
People'd still QQ about her slow though.
But I seriously dont see the OPness in Arachna, sure she rapes pubs.
But she has very low hp, no escape mechanism, no stun, no usefulness in teamfights. Any ganking crew with 2 ppl can completely shut her down. Playing Arachna is a tad bit psychological aswell, making people believe you're dangerous as ****. Even though she ain't.
She's useless in teamfights unless she's been feeded. She's good at chasing/kiting and 1v1, That's it.
Yyouseff
08-07-2009, 09:00 PM
But I seriously dont see the OPness in Arachna, sure she rapes pubs.
But she has very low hp, no escape mechanism, no stun, no usefulness in teamfights.
I thought completely raping a caster by jumping him from a forest and turning a 5v5 into 5v4 is pretty substantial.
LiquorQ
08-07-2009, 09:55 PM
I thought completely raping a caster by jumping him from a forest and turning a 5v5 into 5v4 is pretty substantial.
I KNOW, RIGHT!... Not useful in team battles my ass.
LordMoldador
08-08-2009, 12:12 AM
Well I haven't seen the other Arachna topics, so I'll write it here.
Today I've played like 10 times and Arachna was ALWAYS picked! The teams that had Arachna have won about 8 times and Arachna was always the top fragger!
Well, it seems like it's a little overpowered, doesn't it?!
REMAKE IT! Seriously! I'm not whining, since I can pick it too, but the Heroes are supposed to be balanced!!!!!! Do something, quick!
LiquorQ
08-08-2009, 12:17 AM
Well I haven't seen the other Arachna topics, so I'll write it here.
Today I've played like 10 times and Arachna was ALWAYS picked! The teams that had Arachna have won about 8 times and Arachna was always the top fragger!
Well, it seems like it's a little overpowered, doesn't it?!
REMAKE IT! Seriously! I'm not whining, since I can pick it too, but the Heroes are supposed to be balanced!!!!!! Do something, quick!
I can't tell if you're a troll or not, because I've seen this happen...
Rhaegor
08-08-2009, 12:37 AM
It is my understanding ... that Arachna is almost certainly going to get "Balanced" next round of nerfs/buffs.
How that is going to play out? I have no idea. But rest assured, it's all but guaranteed at this point.
...
You misunderstood.
Shadowcamsy
08-08-2009, 03:12 AM
So like... lol? Arachna solo is horrible against a majority of solo's, including (but not limited to) Soulstealer, Thunderbringer, Defiler, Hellbringer, Jester, the list goes on. If you're any of these heroes and you're losing to Arachna it's a matter of player skill and you deserve to lose. Arachna is easily ganked, she has 1 spell that removes debuff and a short duration magic resistance, apart from that she's got a slow that takes time to be useful, and a spider which screams "don't 1v1 me or you die". Her health pool is pathetic, a Pyromancer can holy combo her by suprise and she dies. The only time you should die is when you stupidly go within range of her 1v1, even then you can buy a homecoming stone. In 2v2 she's no different to any other hero with a slow, Armadon slows even more than her stacks and I don't see anyone calling him overpowered.
If you're playing a melee hero and wondering why you're dying so much to her, it's because she's specifically in the game to counter you. Her as slow is designed to reduce your effectiveness in team battles, Bane elemental from dota is exactly the same, enfeeble reduces your attack damage by 120%, he has a 7 second disable, steals 300 life from someone and can disable another hero at the same time for 5 seconds, and Bane Elemental is at least 3x more effective than Arachna.
Arachna is very very weak against pusher teams, if you have hellbringer, tempest, pollywog, you just outpicked your enemy and won the game. There are at least 10 heroes with more balance issues than Arachna. Like Hellbringer's rediculous lifesteal, Scout being useless for everything except killstealing, Predator doing more damage than new naix, Electrician's cooldowns being stupidly short. Imo quit your whining about Arachna, fix the other heroes then review her later. Stop the farm -> stop the carry -> win the game, same for all heroes no matter which agi hero you are.
Pyromancer can holy combo her by suprise and she dies. The only time you should die is when you stupidly go within range of her 1v1, even then you can buy a homecoming stone. In 2v2 she's no different to any other hero with a slow, Armadon slows even more than her stacks and I don't see anyone calling him overpowered.
I doubt armaddon gives a 80% slow with a single spell.
The difference armaddon slows over time, and it takes longer for him to get maximum slow from his skill.
Also, Pyro won't be able to kill you all that easily if you have your magic armor leveled. It's like +35 magic resistance, which should leave you with plenty of HP left after he has burned all his skills on you.
Her slow is also bugged. It goes through most escape abilities. It even slows through Jereziahs shield if she cast a web just when he cast his magic shield.
armaddon with a glacius wins early on so easilly. His spines/slow wreck any hero combo early. His slow does slow a lot, obiosuly not 80% but niether is arachnas.
MooFreaky
08-08-2009, 04:31 AM
Arachna is basically a port of Drow Ranger from DotA, rather than an entirely new hero. Like Drow, she is an effective carry/subcarry - ganker (depending on team combination) hero if she is allowed the time to farm up. She can get huge DPS, coupled with a very effective slow this allows her to smash any hero that is caught operating alone. She can also be useful in teamfights (with a proper team slection) as she can concentrate on pumping out a lot of damage very quickly.
She also has the ability to be used in conjunction with a number of other heroes to effectively control a lane and deny opposing carries any real freedom to farm. So yes, she is a good hero.
But how do you counter any carry hero? You ****ing harass the **** out of them early before they can item up. If you are against Arachna with a hero that cannot easily counter her, then why not call for a lane change? Send Pyro, Thunderbringer etc to nuke her down a bit. When she changes lanes, change again and follow her. You dont' let a carry/subcarry just farm up, you take action to stop it. PUBs often let them farm too much and then they become super powerful and start stomping an entire team (or hitting one or two, before running away briefly before coming back to smack another one or two).
Also if your teammates are worth their salt, then they should be killing that spider pretty damn quickly too.
On a related note, far too often a team blames one person (or one lane) because they allowed a hero to farm up. So many times its not that persons fault, the nukers just didn't do their job to stop a carry from actually being able to do their job.
krucifix
08-08-2009, 05:04 AM
I would compare her more to Viper, than Drow....
Attica
08-08-2009, 05:30 AM
Her orb needs a cooldown at lower levels like viper does. Her attack animation should be slower as well so players have to orb walk with her to do well.
I can only sign this topic.
If she manages to ambush you, you have a very, very little chance of killing her.
The slow makes it impossible, to get away from her, and she can win team battles, just by being there.
Also, I have played some games with her, and its very easy to last hit, much much more then any other hero.
She needs a nerf, that's it.
SloanParker
08-08-2009, 07:55 AM
Arachna thread again ... >_>
I fear this will never stop
it wont stop until it's balanced, welcome to life.
I would compare her more to Viper, than Drow....
i'm pretty sure you know very little of what you're talking about.
Chris
08-08-2009, 09:50 AM
What the heck? Troll harder.
Your unarguable point is sounding like a broken record.
Arachna and Accursed now have some free farming. Good job! You're a winner.
You like to play EM don't you?
You are trying WAY too hard to upset me while not making any valid points. Arachna and Accursed can go ahead and "Free farm" that lane that I pushed up way too far. You know why? Because it isn't safe to be there right now anyway.
No, I don't. I know how to last hit / deny a lane. You should try it sometime, I find it really helps with your farming. People will probably laugh at you a lot less if you don't have to buy those stout shields and jungle with every char you get anyway, helpful advice as I have played with you before and KNOW you are bad.
The difference armaddon slows over time, and it takes longer for him to get maximum slow from his skill.
Arachna doesn't get an 80% slow until level 3 of her ult. Until then she has to waste her ult + orbs to get the effect, and guess what? TP to a different lane when she tries to kill you with this and laugh in allchat. Armadon's slow is stronger than her orb as it adds negative armor which is devestating early game.
The slow makes it impossible, to get away from her, and she can win team battles, just by being there.
I can't tell if this is a troll or if you really believe what you just said. Either way, it's terrible.
Verne
08-08-2009, 11:14 AM
Difference between Armadon's slow and Arcahna's slow is that Armadon's does no damage and it has a cooldown. On top of that Armadon is a melee hero while Arachna is ranged.
However when I play as Armadon against Arachna I tend to win just because Arachna always tries to run away for whatever reason (scared of her own medicine?). :P
iamrawr
08-08-2009, 11:19 AM
her shot shouldn't go through magic immunity. There is also armor reduction that stacks on armadon's slow.
sweatshop
08-08-2009, 01:43 PM
she mostly needs the slow dropped slightly, and her range possibly reduced. also her final needs a significantly longer cooldown. also, why does it not debuff with predators stone skin?
Lethe
08-08-2009, 02:29 PM
she mostly needs the slow dropped slightly, and her range possibly reduced. also her final needs a significantly longer cooldown. also, why does it not debuff with predators stone skin?
Spider does physical damage. Stone skin=magic immunity, so spider goes right through it for max effect. Same applies for shrunken head/protective charm.
whorequeen
08-08-2009, 02:55 PM
i get that the damage remains, but why does the slow not debuff with predators spell? blood seekers does, so why not hers?
megacannibal
08-08-2009, 03:05 PM
So what I hear from people is everytime you see arach you should waste 185 gold to survive? Oh that's not OP at all.
CloudKen
08-08-2009, 03:09 PM
i hear a bunch of flaming and not enough creative thinking.
u go ahead and waste ur time trying to kill my arachna, ill go black king bar (not sure how it is in HoN) and assasins shroud and laugh while u try to focus fire me.
LiquorQ
08-09-2009, 01:42 PM
how do i shot web??
Oh god i was waiting for someone to say that lol
Lethe
08-09-2009, 02:29 PM
i get that the damage remains, but why does the slow not debuff with predators spell? blood seekers does, so why not hers?
It's the same thing as if you attacked a magic immune target with frostwolf skull. They will still be slowed.
xxzxcuzx_me
08-09-2009, 02:35 PM
how do i shot web??
Made absolutely my day :D
Walshie
08-09-2009, 02:45 PM
Same here. I think that Arachna is way to OP'ed(Overpowered). Her Webbed Shot is too strong... especially when it simply does not need to cool down, and you can constantly keep using it over and over until you totally run out of mana. Also her spider is way too strong. The cooldown is very short compared to many other heroes ult's.
Arachna needs to be completely remade, and not as powerful than any other hero out there.
Maybe the Webbed Shot should have a cooldown, and a certain amount of time the Webbed Shot lasts depending on how strong it is.
-Walshie
DesuEagle
08-09-2009, 02:59 PM
May be just make higher manacost of Webbed Shot? At least at the start it will nerf her a little. At the late game there is some heroes that can defeat her/
PowerofDeath
08-09-2009, 03:04 PM
Put a cooldown on webshot until level 4 that way she can't orb walk you to death.
And her ultimate isnt too bad.
Ragnarok17
08-09-2009, 04:02 PM
Wait a second. A whole ton of people got the TP thing wrong.
You can get damaged, slowed, debuffed, as MUCH as you want during a TP. The only thing that stops your TP is a disable, such as silence or a stun (including ministun).
And anyway... you don't always have to run. You could even just run up to her if you're close enough, and kill her, or at least do a ton of damage to her so that your teammates could catch up and finish her off. Anyway, if you're a str hero (who usually don't have projectile stuns), you can still run up to her, stun (which should be at least 2 seconds), and by the time she gets out of her stun, her web on you will have went away, allowing you to run.
Kojen2
08-09-2009, 04:06 PM
so your going to port every time she starts attacking you nice plan gl getting exp on a lane
Darqion
08-09-2009, 04:07 PM
run up to arachna when you are slowed? Im a huge noob and ive kited people around. Its easy when they`re slow. especially if the spider's out too
Verne
08-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Wait a second. A whole ton of people got the TP thing wrong.
You can get damaged, slowed, debuffed, as MUCH as you want during a TP. The only thing that stops your TP is a disable, such as silence or a stun (including ministun).
And anyway... you don't always have to run. You could even just run up to her if you're close enough, and kill her, or at least do a ton of damage to her so that your teammates could catch up and finish her off. Anyway, if you're a str hero (who usually don't have projectile stuns), you can still run up to her, stun (which should be at least 2 seconds), and by the time she gets out of her stun, her web on you will have went away, allowing you to run.
lol, that is all.
Kleenex1
08-09-2009, 04:40 PM
May be just make higher manacost of Webbed Shot? At least at the start it will nerf her a little. At the late game there is some heroes that can defeat her/
If you make it a higher mana cost... then you might as well make it have a cooldown too :P
-Kleenex
Weenoman
08-10-2009, 01:38 AM
I think the developers were trying to make her ult counterable by attacking the spider, but the spider takes too long when your attack speed is slowed the way it is.
Just needs 1 small nerf. Glacius has 280 starting movement speed, I think having arachna at 285-290 would balance her fine. Forces her to get boots, and then good boots, to catch people. Makes it so the hero can't easily get kills early on, but their skills are skill useful later on.
Airwalker
08-10-2009, 01:48 AM
I know im not adding anything new here, but i just finished a game with an Arachna on my side and my behemoth didn't have to do anything. Arachna just went all over the map killing everyone. OK, opponent team were not the best players in the world I'd have to admit, but still... I say it's overpowered. (And no, it wasn't my first game at all)
Since it's half like a DOTA's drow, i guess changing the ulti would do it (that magic immune spider is unstoppable in 1v1). AGI bonus maybe?
Pilliars_CzE
08-10-2009, 02:05 AM
Arachna is unbalaced, haves chance kill him: onli hero used teleport: Chronos, Magebane, Dark Lady. Why? Arachna have unbalaced ultimate skill. Remake this...
ultimate: slow enemi + dmg + visible - invisible + speed spider.
Level5Pidgey
08-10-2009, 02:32 AM
Make the Spider die easier.
An Arachna totally spidered Zeus on my team, and I couldn't kill it before it did the 5 hits.
I was like "Alright, yeah, a few hits should do it" no, no they did not.
LegoPirate
08-10-2009, 04:14 AM
The main problem with arachna is the fact that she has 2 stacking slows. if shes gonna be a drow copy then just give her drows +15 agi per level. the double slow is impossible to counter in the ganking phase, and she does enough damage that tping away might take too long depending in your hero.
at this point, the only thing that counters arachna fully is a disable, but if she can get her hands on a bkb, theres nothing you can do once she has you slowed.
'main point: 2 stacking slows for 1 hero = bad
I would say that making her a copy of Drow would be a good idea.
Sadist
08-10-2009, 07:26 AM
The level of discussion in this thread is worse than kindergarten. The only valid balancing suggestion is to give her cooldown on the orbwalk until level 4 and maybe reduce the agi growth a bit (since she got buffed from 2.7 to 3.2 i believe. make it go back to 2.9 or 3.0).
She's quite fine otherwise.
All the bashing morons have no sense of balance whatsoever and probably never played with Dota's Viper to make such retarded suggestions like "HURF DURF LETS MAKE HER MAGIC RESIST SLOW HER BY 80%". "DAMAGE CANCELS TP HURF DURF".
Seriously kids, stay out of this forum.
Verne
08-10-2009, 09:32 AM
The level of discussion in this thread is worse than kindergarten. The only valid balancing suggestion is to give her cooldown on the orbwalk until level 4 and maybe reduce the agi growth a bit (since she got buffed from 2.7 to 3.2 i believe. make it go back to 2.9 or 3.0).
She's quite fine otherwise.
All the bashing morons have no sense of balance whatsoever and probably never played with Dota's Viper to make such retarded suggestions like "HURF DURF LETS MAKE HER MAGIC RESIST SLOW HER BY 80%". "DAMAGE CANCELS TP HURF DURF".
Seriously kids, stay out of this forum.
You should follow your own advice. It's very childish to come here and call other's kids when you yourself don't really give any proper argument.
Killroy
08-10-2009, 09:39 AM
I love the fact that she had 2 buffs and all of a sudden arachna is totally OP? She is right now one of the strongest 1v1 heroes in the game and an excellent ganker with a double slow. She can finally be the dps-er of your team. I only find her magic armor spell a bit too much right now. She is dps-er and an anti-dpser but with her magic armor she can stand up to pyro and thunder combined and still kill 1 and get away from the second one or maybe even kill that one too. The other good suggestion is indeed a cd on her web shot so you can't orb walk too much. Orb walking makes her incredible easy to play.
Verne
08-10-2009, 09:40 AM
Arachna was pretty damn great before the buffs already, just that no one seemed to play her (everyone preferred the easy mode heroes like Madman and Swiftblade).
EvilPenguin
08-10-2009, 09:54 AM
Her ult is WAY to op.
1k nuke, 30s cooldown, 80% movespeed and att speed debuff, prevents stealth, for 250 mana from 500 range on an agility hero
I have no idea what the developers were thinking with this and how some people say that's ok.
I also think lower lvls of webbed shot should have a slight cd max out at 30% ms and aura range buffed to 700.
_Wolf_
08-10-2009, 12:05 PM
she was fine before the recent patch that brought in Valkyrie, they buffed her to much. My last game she wiped out my entire team by herself. that = overpowered.
CassiveMock
08-10-2009, 01:20 PM
I cant help but lol at this thread.
Its almost like you people dont even play the game.
Give her ult a longer cool down. Problem fixed.
Infinity
08-10-2009, 01:24 PM
if there are this many whine threads why cant you just admit that there may be a cause for them, and, seriously, in higher tier games she's only better cos of her ridiculously fast animation and projectile speeds.
CassiveMock
08-10-2009, 01:35 PM
Only shes not good in higher tier games, at all. Infact shes very bad.
kikomir
08-10-2009, 02:22 PM
The slow needs a slight nerf and the ulti a longer cooldown. Nothing else.
NexorBr
08-10-2009, 02:58 PM
DUdes, i played a lot of matches with arachna after reading these threads and
i gotta say...
is she op? NO!
the webbed shot in fact can give u a lot of trouble when combined with the ult... that is, if u are alone! she has almost no hp, not even in late game, that is because most ppl do additional damage and critical for her, so even in lvl 25 she has like 1500hp
if 1 stunner and 1 nuker comes to here, it's death garanteed
played a game couple days ago, i was completely op, with a perfect build for arachna, could take a pudge with 5.5k hp down in like 7 hits
but... a behemoth blinked near me, stun, and then mq used ultimate...
then i'm dead!
arachna is one of the best heroes to take down other heroes that are ALONE, in that scenario, almost no hero has any chance against her, unless it's got some good escapin mechanism, or arachna player really sucks :P
but when a team gets together and pushes a lane, and they have 1 stunner...
arachna can just sit back and enjoy the show of they destroyin the whole base without doing almost nothing :P
Verne
08-10-2009, 04:30 PM
DUdes, i played a lot of matches with arachna after reading these threads and
i gotta say...
is she op? NO!
the webbed shot in fact can give u a lot of trouble when combined with the ult... that is, if u are alone! she has almost no hp, not even in late game, that is because most ppl do additional damage and critical for her, so even in lvl 25 she has like 1500hp
if 1 stunner and 1 nuker comes to here, it's death garanteed
played a game couple days ago, i was completely op, with a perfect build for arachna, could take a pudge with 5.5k hp down in like 7 hits
but... a behemoth blinked near me, stun, and then mq used ultimate...
then i'm dead!
arachna is one of the best heroes to take down other heroes that are ALONE, in that scenario, almost no hero has any chance against her, unless it's got some good escapin mechanism, or arachna player really sucks :P
but when a team gets together and pushes a lane, and they have 1 stunner...
arachna can just sit back and enjoy the show of they destroyin the whole base without doing almost nothing :P
So it's ok for the enemy group on single Arachna but Arachna herself is not able to have her team mates with her? Arachna can still be a ***** even in the 5v5 team fights; fast attack speed and projectile, spammable slow and amazing ulti, not to mention the aura for ranged heroes. She can easily stay back spamming slows on melee heroes or try to flank the enemy and take out their casters.
lol arachna probably isn't all that OP in organized matches, but she is without a doubt a pubstomper. All she needs is one bad player who does not respect the damage output of arachna for easy kills and once the feeding begins it wont stop. The ultimate is out of control and if the arachna happens to solo mid and ding level six any caster or agi hero who gets targetted can say gg.
She's not overpowered, she's broken. Her ult is way too strong. Her HP is way too low. I think that the ultimate should be completely reworked and her base STR should be buffed.
And arachna is very good in organized games. She isn't anything close to OP, but she's a decent pick, especially with good support. She's a bit like soulstealer... but with slows.
Helgeran1
08-10-2009, 05:06 PM
She's not overpowered, she's broken. Her ult is way too strong. Her HP is way too low. I think that the ultimate should be completely reworked and her base STR should be buffed.
And arachna is very good in organized games. She isn't anything close to OP, but she's a decent pick, especially with good support. She's a bit like soulstealer... but with slows.
Glass cannons are cool!
megacannibal
08-10-2009, 05:52 PM
For all of you bringing up homecoming stone look at my example. So in a recent game it was pretty even we were all lvl 11-12 and of course the other team had arach. Now I was laning when arach suddenly came from forest and started webbing me. I, of course had homecoming stone. I used it, but oh I died. Know how? He wasn't exactly farmed, he had steam boots agi and rift shard I think it was (+35 dmg 10% 1.5x crit) on top of his spider which does 100 dmg a hit. I had about 1k hp and he took it down before homecoming stone was done channeling. mhm mhm mhm
Tupimus
08-10-2009, 05:58 PM
People who said "JUST GET TPS LOL" often ignore the fact that the hero actually deals damage as well. And in case of Arachna, the damage she puts out isn't exactly negligible...
Oh, and nukes? As long as you predict the enemies' actions even a bit, you can just pop Carapace and laugh at them doing 0,2 damage per point of mana spent and THEN YOU RAPE THEM.
She isn't squishy, really. Physical DPS can't do a **** because of the slows and Carapace makes nukers kinda redundant.
Cockasauras
08-10-2009, 06:04 PM
The thing i dont like about her is her ridiculous range. It makes it so if you are unlucky enough to be melee in her lane, you are screwed. Hell even some ranged heroes may have a hard time about it.
Tupimus
08-10-2009, 06:19 PM
That, too. Absolutely no bloody effort for what it does and you're practically totally safe while doing it, too. And if Arachna's supposed to be the Drow port, why the hell does she have a nuke AND an anti-magic skill?
Bonburner
08-10-2009, 06:25 PM
How is she a Drow port?
I see more Viper than Drow. Her orb is similar to Drow's because it doesn't do damage. But what I see is that they nerfed Viper many ways. The orb no longer does damage, just slow, the magic armor skill is no longer a passive so it takes skill understanding when you need it, the ultimate is weaker so you can teleport away from it/kill it/make it lose its target.
cocco
08-10-2009, 08:16 PM
lol arachna probably isn't all that OP in organized matches, but she is without a doubt a pubstomper.This. I'm not that hot at this game, neither is my friends I play with but all 5-6 games we played today we got completely raped by arachna. Except once one of us played her and steamrolled instead.
BeberT
08-10-2009, 08:34 PM
arachna need a nerf on the range
noodle0117
08-10-2009, 08:43 PM
Just lower her intelligence and intelligence gain and he'll consider twice before casting web attacks
NecroBr
08-10-2009, 09:37 PM
For all of you bringing up homecoming stone look at my example. So in a recent game it was pretty even we were all lvl 11-12 and of course the other team had arach. Now I was laning when arach suddenly came from forest and started webbing me. I, of course had homecoming stone. I used it, but oh I died. Know how? He wasn't exactly farmed, he had steam boots agi and rift shard I think it was (+35 dmg 10% 1.5x crit) on top of his spider which does 100 dmg a hit. I had about 1k hp and he took it down before homecoming stone was done channeling. mhm mhm mhm
this is called gank, it's made to you get KILLED.
ANY carrier can cause problems if your team( and/or you) feeded him all the game, just dont let the carrier "free farm" and kill you early game, ask help of your team to kill the carrier sometimes and done, carriar no longer carry the team. Aracna is a carrier hero with slow, so learn how to avoid being hit by her's slow, if you know that aracna have a slow let you advance your lane think a little and dont go exept you have a escape skill to get back to safaty until your allies come and you all kill aracna and game a "free farm".
many people think "OH MY GOD ARACNA'S ULT IS TOO OVERPOWERED!!", but the ult doesn't follow you if you have a good escape skill like magabane's blink, chronos's timewalk,...... Viper's ult on DotA follow you until you are dead of it's time is over, and it can't be countered by blinking out of the battle, and drow have and AoE silence that would be much more powerfull them aracna's spell resist. If they nerf aracna too much, as many here said, so i will be one of the players who will come here and ask for a good buff on her, se doesn't have hp and now you want to remove her's way to kill?
verdensbeste
08-10-2009, 10:01 PM
For God's sake! REMOVE Arachna's ulti. I just played scout vs arachna, and managed to get killed 8 times by her alone. Nobody else was even close to touching me.
I mean, seriously? True sight, slow, dmg, hp!? Nerf those little bastards. I sugggest you give them less HP, so that they can be killed easily. This way it would AT LEAST BE POSSIBLE TO COUNTER THE BASTARS.
Bonburner
08-10-2009, 10:32 PM
^ qq more scrubs. Ain't that hard 2 tp away instantly.
Airwalker
08-11-2009, 12:12 AM
I just can't understand why FEW people keep defending Arachna as it is, when there are MANY (really, MANY) people complaining about her... You don't see this much threads complaining about other heroes, so there must be a reason.
I've played DOTA for 5/6 years now and it's very clear how latest versions were so well balanced... no hero was abusive. NONE. So at least I (and many many players) can tell that arachna is, IN CERTAIN CONDITIONS, unstoppable. And that is not meant to happen. ANY hero in the hands of a great player, against certain types of players and certain types of heros can get unstoppable. But the fact here is that Arachna gets IMBA way too often, and way too easy. That sucks. You don't need to be a PRO or to play against noobs to own a game with an Arachna. Why? You guessed right! It's badly made.
What should change? Dunno. There are many things to correct and many possibilities. But please, leave your pride and your PRO feeling outside and accept the facts. I don't care if you used a Blacksmith and killed Arachna 15 times in a row with a x4MC. That's just 1 game, among hundreds of thousands.
I'm sorry for the length of this, I got carried away =P
Evac1
08-11-2009, 08:00 AM
A gank is when you get killed more than one person. The reason a gank is understood to be nigh impossible to get away from without prevention is because you are outnumbered and obviously outpowered.
Arachna can create this effect by only having one of herself.
Let's look at an Arachna gank scenario:
1. Arachna jumps you, you try to run/disable. She slows you and kites you until you are dead. Arachna gets an XP bonus, a gold bonus, another kill and can now free-farm
2. Arachna jumps you, you use Homecoming stone. You live, and are now far from each lane (unless you have PH). Arachna can now free-farm
3. Arachna jumps you, you somehow saunter back to your tower. She flees. You are now farther from your farm spot, Arachna can now free-farm
Can anyone come up with a number 4 that doesn't completely suck for the gankee?
You pay attention to missing calls and stay out of her slow range.You ask for someone to stun her while you nuke her/auto her as well - killing her outright. You ask someone to disable her, while you kill her. You ask someone to help you auto attack her while you slow her. ETC.. she is squish, she can die. Don't be stupid, she is a good 1v1 hero, not many can take her one 1v1, she is made to be godly 1v1 but shitty 5v5, learn that and adapt to it, its a rule of dota.
The reason shitty heroes in 5v5 are allowed to continue is because they are there to kill the very good ones at 5v5 in the game thus reducing their effectiveness for later on or forceing a 4v5 later.
If you are complaining because you picked scout, chronos or some other awful hero and an Arachna is owning you, then you are just a retard.
Lesi1
08-11-2009, 09:51 AM
What i rly dont like is that slow is still intanct after fix actualy. Arachna can slow you to 80% in 4 hits (she hits fast btw) so in 2 sec you are dead snail. What is moronic is that that skill actualy deals damage. If its not OP why cant armadilo get damage on his slow spell? You actualy have to spam damn "spit" 6-7 times for about 10+sec to get same slow as arachna in 2 sec. That is your balance, right?