Blood Chalice (An upgrade for the Bottle)

[A`nub`is]

http://i38.tinypic.com/5n51zp.jpg Bottle (600)
http://i38.tinypic.com/ofvxad.jpg Recipe (400)
=

http://monte.d2nsa.de//HoN/Suggestions/Items/BloodChalice.jpg Blood Chalice (1000)


Restores 170 Health and 70 Mana on self over 3 seconds. Dispels upon taking damage.
Contains up to 4 charges. Must be filled at the Well or by picking up Runes.
On obtaining a kill the Chalice refills 1 charge.

On obtaining an assist the Chalice refills 1 charge.

Notes:
-An upgrade for bottle that makes it more offensive/gank/roaming orientated (would be a shame to use it only to be able to stay in your lane ;)).

Alternative Icons/Names:
Blood Bottle / Demonic Bottle
http://monte.d2nsa.de//HoN/Suggestions/Items/BloodChalice-BloodBottle.jpg http://monte.d2nsa.de//HoN/Suggestions/Items/BloodChalice-DemonicBottle.jpg

Changelog:
20100324 - Bloodthirst dropped. Recipe price reduced by 100g.
20100405 - Reduced number of charges gained for a(n) kill/assist from 4/2 to 1/1.
.C

[ARCHAON]

sounds very good, a worthfull upgrade to the bottle, but might making gankers a little too overpowered, not having to rely on runes for filling the bottle

but i like it!

[noobscoutmid]

As long as blood thirst does not apply to an enemy scout, I say good item.

Otherwise, OP

[MADD411]

overpowered. make recipe like 1.5k for the vision effect

[Wabisuke]

Imo remove the vision that's a little OP.

but great item for roaming gankers!

[docterj208]

I like the on kill and effect and the general bottle upgrade.

however, I don't think it should completely refill on a hero death, should probably just give 1 charge (same with assists).

Another thing is that it shouldn't give bloodhunter passive ability, that is just lame.

Make it give a different themed passive. I can't think of one, but not reveal.

T-up btw.

[docterj208]

how about something like, "While under 40% hp, you gain +2 hp regeneration per charge"


Edit:

On second thought, you don't really need a passive on this. Its a bottle, and the recharge on death is a GREAT passive already.

[Gungehammer]

Take away the BH effect and then just 1 charge on kill and 1 charge on assist. Otherwise it's one of those MUST HAVE items kinda thing, sort of like boots, if you don't have boots you're left behind. The same would be with this.

But T-UP for more ganking ideas.

[Blaky039]

OP, bloodthirst is the most Op thing I've seen no joke.

[laserblade]

Remove passive. Too OP. o_O

[FiskOgHon]

This item really encourages ganging. I vote yes!

[Pwntheon]

The way it is now, i love it. However, swap it to:

- On kill it fills up
- If someone dies within (same radius as blood stone) you gain 1 charge

That feels more "uniform" with items and abilities (like silencer aura too) that work similarly. And even if you run to gank, you often score a kill or two, so getting 1-2 charges alone in addition to the 1 extra max charge is already worth the extra 400g in my opinion.

[TeXmeX]

I think the killing thing is way to overpowered for a only 400+ recipe!!

Balanced should be like:
On kill refreshes two charges, and assists one charge.
that would be acceptable

[Aewar]

t-up, i like it :)

[Adam`Colton]

this is too OP

[Adam`Colton]

I would agree on Blood Chalice "IF" an assist wont refill this item. Second if a kill replenishes this item.. it should be like 500 gold for recipe. 150 heal and 80 mana over 2.5 seconds would be better per charge and a maximum of three and i think it would be cool if it can hold a rune 1 minute longer than the usual bottle. Opinion only so it would not be OP but still it will promote gank and a better HoN experience to all :D

for me:

Blood Chalice (500g recipe)
Restores 150 hp and 80 mana over 2.5 seconds (dispells upon taking damage)
Contains up to 3 charges
Can hold a rune 1 minute longer than the usual bottle.
Restores 3 charges if the user gets a hero kill.

[A`nub`is]

:TabletOfCommand:

[EroticMonkey]

So much op

[BoundSoul]

I guess every hero would buy the bottle then...make it little more expensive and only 1 charge per dead hero arround. Else each carry would buy this item and will allways have full hp/mana

[Qwernakus]

Too cheap.

Need atleast 2000 combined cost. Slap a few punchdaggers on it? Iron Buckler? Sustainer?








Doombringer? :p

[Khser]

price is ok, 4 charge is good but i think it will be too much op if it refills itfels that much on kill/assist. tho it could charge up 1 if any hero dies in, like, 1100 range or maybe 1600.
</div>

[A`nub`is]

:TabletOfCommand:

[Shadowedsoul]

I'm going to hold off voting for right now. It's simply too strong for the price. It needs to have a higher recipe price (and/or some other sub-components).

Or if it's going to stay that price, it needs to have its regen lowered a bit, and it needs to gain 1 charge on assist and 2 on kills... not 2 and 4. I just can't help but think that 2/4 is just too much.

[docterj208]

just to give some more logic, this can already be refilled via runes. It doesn't need to be refilled on hero kills either as Hero kills aren't something that comes once every 2 min? 5 min?

You get my point.

[TheNDC]

Too OP Oo

[PowerOutage]

I really like this idea, makes the bottle less useless late game.

But the heath and mana restored should be maybe 50% more?

Or if not, the buff duration should be .5 or 1 sec less, same amount regeneration

And you should only receive 2 charges for a kill and 1 charge for an assist but no more!

[A`nub`is]

New Changes:
-Reduced number of charges gained for a(n) kill/assist from 4/2 to 1/1.

So for the 400g recipe your bottle has 4 instead of 3 charges and heals slightly more and you get +1 charge for every hero kill you are involved in.

I think it's pretty balanced in this form now :)

[MajuiF]

I totally agree. Makes the Bottle viable mid-late game.
T-UP :D

[KohdCilver]

400g seems way too cheap for this. I would say more like 900 or so adding a charge and gaining charges from assists seems like a very very good item

I like the idea but like the poster above me 400 is way too little for what that item provides. ~1000 gold is somewhere more in the ballpark IMO

[MajuiF]

I like the idea but like the poster above me 400 is way too little for what that item provides. ~1000 gold is somewhere more in the ballpark IMO
Agreed, I was thinking about it. Early game, it would be devastating and would grant you too much lane power if you could upgrade it with 400.
Maybe also add a "cooldown" in the shop that makes you only able to buy this item at 5min? 10min?
Just a suggestion.

[Forfeit]

Bottle is my favorite item in HoN, I buy it on almost every hero. But this is OP. Way OP.

[Phase1Skeith]

I likes the concept so you're having my T-Up BUT it needs balance tweaking.

[Saxke]

t-up, yes

[Shadowedsoul]

I like the changes that you made balance-wise on the charges. I feel that this is in line now with the price tag. +1 from me

[Reminator]

So much win ! I agreee. But after team fight you get like 510 hp for free + mana
Recipe should cost more.

[Blue42]

bottles are fine as is imo

[Zarent]

Moved to Popular Suggestions!

[Eirem]

I love bottle! /signed

[WarKirby]

I think it'd be nice to see it refill on creep kills somehow. like one charge every 10-20 ck

Aside from that, it seems a bit odd that kills and assists give the same number of charges, kills should be more, no?

[Eirem]

I think that kills give the same charges as assists so as not to have to choose between the ganker/roamer or the guy who needs gold (maybe the carry, or the initiator for his portal key) getting the kill.

[jewfail]

it's good how it is now,
it's just your average bottle...plus a bit.

[Tomoharu]

Refilling once from an assist seems much to me.

[GGreenBass]

Imo Assists bonus shouldn't equal Kill bonus. Kills should refill 2 charges, it should be almost twice as expensive as current bottle.

[logosloki]

I vote yes on the concept. I believe though that the recipe should be the same cost as the bottle since it also refills on assists.

This is an interesting item as it helps out if you are roaming/ganking but is also a solid item for support classes since it gives on assists.

It has decent pro's con's (nonstat item but allows refills from being active).

[zhurai]

+1 here

[Runesinger]

I think you should remove the assist getting charge part.

[flibble]

Favourite idea on this forums. Good job.

[GGreenBass]

Actually, I changed my mind. If you get KS'd you won't get punished, and if you help a teammate you'll get rewarded. It is a team game, after all.

[SHiRKiT]

I would prefer if the recipe was like 600g. And max 3 charges.

[argnoferich]

On obtaining an assist the Chalice refills 1 charge.

Only I'm thinking this is too strong? Genocide = Super refill?

[Draptok]

Yeah... but if you remove the refill on the assist it would promote kill-stealing with whoever had the chalice, which would be dumb.

Bottle upgrade = win.

[Dr`Delicious]

Refilling once from an assist seems much to me.

This. I like the whole suggestion though, just needs tweaks.

[argnoferich]

Yeah... but if you remove the refill on the assist it would promote kill-stealing with whoever had the chalice, which would be dumb.

Bottle upgrade = win.

Promote kill-stealing for who? Newbs, ksers? Those will always exist...

[Dukamok]

The kill = assist is a great idea for like some are saying: it will promote ganking from gankers without them going for killsteals which ruins the point of roaming in the first place. Encouraging assists just as much as kills is great.

Good idea. Only thing I'm hesitant about is the 4th charge, as it adds a lot and would become something "everyone would buy every game", but it does make it worth it for gankers and promote movement. In the case of 4 charges, maybe increase the recipe cost, but it is a great idea. T-up

[Electroid]

Too cheap.

Need atleast 2000 combined cost. Slap a few punchdaggers on it? Iron Buckler? Sustainer?








Doombringer? :p


why the hell would it need to have a 2k cost? that's underpowering it, look at what it does and look at that cost. then no one would buy it, yeah great idea dum ass.

good idea, I think it should be 2 charges, i mean you just killed someone and drained their blood? shouldn't that = 2 charges? 1 charge for assist tho.
THIS WOULD NOT IN ANY WAY KEEP A CARRY MAXED OUT ON HEALTH AND MANA, if you think that go back to playing em, and just ignore the forums.

I would honestly prefer it to have a little more regen then the norm bottle, and a shorter time in which it gives it to you. but stick with only three chargers.
Cost seems good IMO i mean you just spent 1k on a bottle that only gives ever so slight bonuses over top of the norm bottle. shouldn't be to OP

[CheshireCat]

I like the idea of an upgradeable bottle, bottle being a common early game item that wears off slightly lategame. Something nice would be if it were combined with another inventoryspace-consuming early item (perhaps any of :TalismanOfExile::FortifiedBracelet::SoulscreamRin g: ) instead of just plain recipe.

Just a thought :P Love the idea, t-ups

[ParanoiaHoT]

I really like the current build.
400 for an extra max charge and the ability to refill 1 charge for kills/assists is neat.
Perhaps a little overpowered on the refill for an assist though, perhaps just a kill?
That or raise the cost to 500-600

[Codemonkey]

here is my idea for this topic

Blood Chalice:
1xBottle (600g)
2xMinor totems (106g)
1xBlood chalice recipe (1000g)

OR

Blood Chalice
1xBottle (600g)
1xMajor totem (540g)
1xBlood chalice recipe (600g)

The blood chalice has 8 charges (heals half what a normal bottle heals pr charge, equivalent of 4 normal bottle charges) and gains 1 charge every time an enemy hero dies in a 1600 range. The blood chalice also gives +1 to all stats pr bottle charge and fills all 8 charges if a rune is picked up. The blood chalice gains 3 charges if you kill an enemy hero.

The blood chalice gains it power from blood, and a bottle charge is regained pr 10 creep killed.

Comments: This item would be the new mana battery for carries farming a lane. Sure enough, the item is expensive, but it grants a good stats boost (when the chalice is filled) and allows heroes to stay away from pool at longer intervals.

COMMENTS PLEASE

[Saifox]

Really like this idea but definitely think it needs to cost more. Or remove the refill on assist.

[KeY533]

I think its nearly Perfect at the moment but it should give a bit more mana then the normal bottle because on the most heroes where u buy the bottle u buy it because of the mana. si i think it should give like 80 or 85 mana per charge

[Saifox]

Actually after thinking about it some more I think it would be balanced if the charges were just kept at 3. 4 just seems a bit too much.

[Mr_Jupiter]

Too powerful. This item restores mana quickly in exchange for kills and assists. There's a reason no other item does this. By allowing gankers this much access to health and mana, you remove their only limiters and make it way to easy for them to continue their momentum.

[Codemonkey]

Read my contribution on page 3 please

[Gurrgy]

bump but make recipe a bit more exspensive

[masyy]

my opinion is you should make it more endgame by increasing the healthgain to 200 and managain to 100but also increasing the recipe cost alot.

[FAkEnGAYdude]

This item really nerfs the incentive of counter-ganks, due to the ridiculous regen gained after a kill early game.

Then again, I may be wrong...

Not voting yet.

[desmondzki]

Not voting yet. Though I see Pharaohs firing Tormented Souls in other lanes just to get an assist and a free refill...

Too early to decide. Needs a bit more tweaking.

[Cavallero]

I loved it...

I use bottle almost every game. And after some time, it just loose its use...

Bu, I think the assis recharge should be removed. Like, when you kill, you get the blood from the victim, but if another one kills and have same item, both will get charges???

Anyway... I loved it... T-Up...

[Afterword]

As this effectively combines both the idea for an Urn port and provides a decent upgrade for a bottle, I think that this is a good idea.

In need of tweaks though.

[gl455]

I feel like the price is too low given that you gain the ability to continuously refill your bottle through ganking and an extra charge. The total item cost feels like it really should be at least twice the cost of a bottle.

Going to vote yes because I like the concept, but I think prices need to be tweaked.

[HyperMusic]

too cheap, nways, i would love to see that

[Krypteia]

I hate all these items that reward on kills. You already get gold and exp and are crippling the enemy team by killing their hero. Why scale pwn?

[Codemonkey]

It's only a temporary reward dude. Like bloodhunter's feast, this item will just reward it's user by retrieving some lost health (plus mana) after a gank or teamfight. I think it's great that one can buy items that give you an ability from a hero, like morph and sheepstick, stone-skin and shrunken head or codex and pyro/ws nuke ult.

If this item were to 100% clone bloodhunter's feast ability, I would STILL vote yes as can offer another way to build carry heroes. And if it turns out too OP, just NERF it.

I hate it when people oppose change. Specially when the change is just ADDED features.

My 2 cents

[TreasonK]

Add a little cost and its perfect.
lol.

[ObiTuarY]

so cool

[Grioja]

I think instead of a kill/assist (harder to code for that imo) that it should proc off any enemy hero death within say... 1000 units

[Fish641]

I really like the concept, but right now it just seems a BIT too strong in relation to price

[Bobopedic]

unnecessary and overpowered.

[Eyelashes]

Hey dude, this kinda looks like your item doesn't it?


:gaun: :ramp: :engi: :fayd: are all on our lists for the next patch. They are all getting a lookin at in some way or another.

Oh, and introducing a new item:
http://i48.tinypic.com/214pg1e.jpg


HMMMMMM....

[Asrial]

Grats mate, you created a new item! :D

[Good_Apollo]

^Yup can't wait to see this thing in action.

[ktN]

This item won't be in the next patch, confirmed by S2Games. The Blood Chalice is not this item.

[Atrim3ntus]

Cool item, would like to see in game in the future

[Woobles]

I was really excited that this was the item. I'm now a little unhappy, even if it is the Urn.

[Lo12d_Nav]

I think it's the Soul Ring or something like that, not Urn of Shadows.

On Topic:
An interesting item for sure, I like the idea of filling up charges by getting kills. However, I'm just not sure the bottle needs an upgrade, especially one this strong.

[Bulls_Eye]

I presume it can still pick up runes? And will it fill up 4 charges when doing so?

[CinexZz]

In my opinion, the price is okay,

However, my suggestion to "improve" this item is to:
- Cancel off the +1 charge for killing a hero,
and instead,
- giving charges Only to assists.

This would ultimately:
1. Improve the importance of assists around the game,
2. Introduce a more friendly environment amongst teammates,
3. Promote team play,
4. Make up or balance for the price of the item.

There are still a lot of people out there in pubs of course, that focuses of KDR and do not care about assists/winning at all, this change could enlighten everyone passively.

Hope this post gets a deep thought in it.

[phLOx]

Congrats! It would seem that this item is being added to the game tommorow!
Good thing too, cos it looks like a kick-ass item. At last, bottle can be useful mid- to lategame again.

[MindBender]

Congrats! It would seem that this item is being added to the game tommorow!
Good thing too, cos it looks like a kick-ass item. At last, bottle can be useful mid- to lategame again.
The new item is not this item. It is Soul Ring from Dota

[PoopyDesires]

OP's item isn't the one being put in game.

Just sayin'.

[Kozon]

i was very sad to see this isnt the item being implemented... T.T

i would change the charges from 4 to 3... if your getting charges for assists and kills you dont need the 4?

[fevian]

I like this item...Might change the name now though. :D

[MaXi]

good idea, but name is fail :D

[Tamachan]

dont you wish this was the actual in game item now ;)? BC is trash

[Nuggi]

Yeah, way too stupid to implent into the game. Will make heroes like hammerstorm immortal

[WigglyFace]

voted yes for the 1k total gold version that gets 1 charge each from kills/assists and otherwise functions exactly like bottle.

[vinrek]

change the name; there is already an item called blood chalice

[Phogue]

change the name; there is alreadopy an item called blood chalice

Look at the post date fool

[Pazuzu]

Would rather see this as bottle alternative than an upgrade Bottle is already strong

[HonchoBob]

Just having a bottle upgrade with either an extra charge, more health/mana per charge, an additional benefit to using a charge, or gain charges/refill on enemy death would be a worthwhile addition to the game.

[Mazi`]

Tbh the recipe would have to cost about 750-1000, since it gives a lot of benefits

[yeahscience]

you guys complaining probably never heard of Urn of Shadows...