View Full Version : The lets not be gay and go harkons Puppet Guide!
:DThis is for non em any map.
Lane mid, or get babysit.:pupp: I prefer mid for xp, and I rely on myself to carry as puppet. Make sure team wards and courier. Maintain rune control if possible depending on opponent(s)
Skill Build:
1 Hold
2 Show/Crit
3 Show/Crit
4 Crit
5 Crit
6 Ult
7 Crit
8 Show
9 Show
10 Show
11 Ult
12 Hold~
Item Build (NON GAY HARKONS)
Starting = 2x peaseant crowns, 2x runes, mana pot or minor totem
Farm boots, bring em with courier. THis helps A LOT with animation canceling early on and helps snag kill/gank. Trust me
Continue to finishing steamboots.
From here you can either finish 2x Bracers, or Build Thunder Claw
This is where it gets interesting, AFTER Tclaw, Build Puzzle Box, continue til lvl 3.
After Puzzle Box, Finish charged hammer
Next item is whispering helm (DONT FORGET TO STACK)
Game should b gg by this time, if not finish a shrunken head or make a symbol of rage.
And thats the not lame and usually harkons build! It works and aint OP
Optional Items = Alch bones if Ophelia, Shrunken Head before tclaw if you dont need the early dps and are facing mass nuke stuns
Replays (more added later)
31292136 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=31292136)
Will probably make this guide very pretty and what not later on
iaguz
03-09-2010, 07:55 PM
What I disagree with your guide is that you don't explain why your choice of items is stronger then the accepted items used nowadays. Why not harkons? When you whiplash, people die. Why farm up puzzlebox? Puzzlebox does the same amount of dps on any character regardless of whether they are a carry or a support (unless you're warbeast of course) so there's no point getting puzzlebox on puppet (it is a ****ing good item nonetheless!) Why no whispering helm? Stacking ancients and farming them fairly early and easily is one of puppets strengths.
What I disagree with your guide is that you don't explain why your choice of items is stronger then the accepted items used nowadays. Why not harkons? When you whiplash, people die. Why farm up puzzlebox? Puzzlebox does the same amount of dps on any character regardless of whether they are a carry or a support (unless you're warbeast of course) so there's no point getting puzzlebox on puppet (it is a ****ing good item nonetheless!) Why no whispering helm? Stacking ancients and farming them fairly early and easily is one of puppets strengths.
Okay then ill explain it here
Why not harkons? Because its OP. Lets be honest. Hence the title of the thread. Tired of the cookie cutter Puppet build, done it plenty.
Why get puzzle box? Well usually in 1600-1700 pub games your m8s dont get puzzle box. If some1 is, then you can skip it and finish your hammer and shrunken/helm quicker.
Charged hammer allows you to farm even faster and ancient stacking isnt always needed if your farming great. It takes some time away from ganking, in those couple minutes you can do a lot of other things, such as kongor, gank, push, etc. Often times a teammate doing the ancient stack can be a bad thing.
iaguz
03-09-2010, 08:11 PM
You've explained why you don't get puzzlebox in certain situations, but again you don't actually mention why you should get it in the first place.
Fair enoguh on harkons though.
You've explained why you don't get puzzlebox in certain situations, but again you don't actually mention why you should get it in the first place.
Fair enoguh on harkons though.
Okay, puzzle box adds a fair amount of survivability as well as damage (as well as mana burn, buffs, etc) making it a very great item.
Just dont get it if your teamates are, thats that
iaguz
03-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Hmm, well, I imagine with puppet's disables he can keep someone in place while they beat the shite out of him. Still, I reckon you should go for straight up dps items but w/e. Whatever floats ye boat.
Who8MyRice1
03-09-2010, 08:38 PM
..So your reasoning for not getting Harkons is because it's TO GOOD of an item on him? And instead of simply making a thread to state your opinion, you spent all this time making a pretty worthless build(lol not rushing a Whispering Helm to maximize your farming)? Not to mention you advise getting a Thunder Claw, one of Puppet's worse item choices?
How is your rating so high?
..So your reasoning for not getting Harkons is because it's TO GOOD of an item on him? And instead of simply making a thread to state your opinion, you spent all this time making a pretty worthless build(lol not rushing a Whispering Helm to maximize your farming)? Not to mention you advise getting a Thunder Claw, one of Puppet's worse item choices?
How is your rating so high?
Listen, this guide is just for those ppl that are tired of the OP harkons blade. It's a pretty absurd item on puppet.
Doing the ancient stack has its downsides.
This item build has worked for me. Perhaps its my skill that helps. Thats how my ratings so high.
dearjohn
03-09-2010, 09:21 PM
this guide is for people who like to intentionally hamper themselves in a bare minimum of three ways while playing puppet master
tanis1
03-09-2010, 11:35 PM
Before the introduction of Harkon's, I used to like getting Shieldbreaker on Puppet. Then there was that lovely period of time where Riftshards stacked with Whiplash...
kirbyruled
03-09-2010, 11:37 PM
Puzzle is really good on Puppet, actually. You don't have to get Harkon's, trust me. The hero is pretty top notch.
But yea you can make them hit your Puzzle minions, the stats are nice (no % mana regen, just stats) and you can still go Dominator/Treads/Supply before Puzzlebox.
laserblade
03-10-2010, 01:47 AM
Before the introduction of Harkon's, I used to like getting Shieldbreaker on Puppet. Then there was that lovely period of time where Riftshards stacked with Whiplash...
<3
Back on topic, I facepalm'd at the thunderclaw. But I understand how mediocre Harkon's Blade tho, and I feel there will be an impending nerf in the future. Best prepare ourselves would a alternative core build when Harkon's Blade gets nerfed.
However, I will never consider TClaw a core item. -__-
As for bracers, they could be replaced with the axe component of Shrunken Head.
Blessed_
03-10-2010, 05:39 AM
Why do you get Whispering Helm so late, it's usually the first item you get so you can start stacking early.
And why would you get Thunderclaw as an item that has about 0 synergy with whipslash when you could get Savage Mace?
Why do you get Whispering Helm so late, it's usually the first item you get so you can start stacking early.
And why would you get Thunderclaw as an item that has about 0 synergy with whipslash when you could get Savage Mace?
IMO, the time stacking can be utilized much better for the team, such as setting up a couple ganks in that time or a push.
Stacking is effective to say the least.
Tclaw is great as its easy to build and adds a fair amount of dps and IAS
Nothing is set in stone, its just a build i been running around with and its been working. Figured id share it with the community. Absorb it as you please.
YawningAngel
03-10-2010, 11:15 AM
I don't appreciate being called a homosexual by someone who is both illiterate and unskilled.
I don't appreciate being called a homosexual by someone who is both illiterate and unskilled.
oicwutudidhere
In terms of unskilled though, my stats > yours
So nice way to contradict yourself.
I assume your one of the noobs in LN, very few good players in that clan.
dearjohn
03-10-2010, 02:05 PM
IMO, the time stacking can be utilized much better for the team, such as setting up a couple ganks in that time or a push.
it takes 3 clicks to use a dominated creep to stack; you lose essentially no time by doing it once a minute
it takes 3 clicks to use a dominated creep to stack; you lose essentially no time by doing it once a minute
CLearing the stack takes a lot of time
Mindfucked1
03-10-2010, 03:38 PM
steamboots, powersupply/bracer, whispering helm are core
i think we all agree on those items
if you want to skip harkons take at least USEFULL items, and not such a crap like thunderclaw/charged hammer
instead build your shieldbreaker/shrunken head straight on (btw no mention of shrunken---->fail)
continue to build what is needed, puzzlebox, savage mace, hellflower, geometers(my favorite), symbol, sheepstick, whatever you want
long story short: get whispering as soon as possible to start stacking.
build a dps item which helps
get shrunken before or after your dps item of choice
get one of the luxurys.
Control`
03-11-2010, 07:55 AM
CLearing the stack takes a lot of time
how you have your rating, il never know.
how you have your rating, il never know.
Watch all of my games if you want to know.
Im not saying this is the best build (cuz harkons is, but gay) , but itsa build that works, least for me.
Goshhhh
`warchild`
03-11-2010, 09:29 AM
yah this argument is pretty lame, if he wants to build a sub-par puppet it is his choice, if u want to build it your way, no big deal. just agree that puppet kiks azz :)
Endroil
03-11-2010, 09:52 AM
*Sigh* What dont you people get? Listen to the man for crying out loud. It's NOT The best build. He NEVER made it for the purposes of owning the Harkons Blade Build. He used this build because he felt like it, and because It works for him. Charged Hammer is definitely an inferior item on Puppet Master. But he likes it, and listen to him, he's SAYING that It's an inferior item. But it works FOR HIM. And It's not ALL that bad.
God sake guys...
He's saying "This build is kewl when u dont wanna haf harkons" basically, and you're all responding "BUT ITS INFEIRIOR TO HARKONS WTF NOOB"
Oh, and time is a relative aspect. What some people consider "alot of time" doesnt neccesarily have to be alot of time according to others. Personally I consider PMaster very slow at clearing Ancient stacks, compared to say uh The Dark Lady? See, It's relative.
Cut him some slack.
PS: Ironically, there is synergy between Charged Hammer and Harkons Blade. :>
yah this argument is pretty lame, if he wants to build a sub-par puppet it is his choice, if u want to build it your way, no big deal. just agree that puppet kiks azz :)
Finally some1 sees my point...
*Sigh* What dont you people get? Listen to the man for crying out loud. It's NOT The best build. He NEVER made it for the purposes of owning the Harkons Blade Build. He used this build because he felt like it, and because It works for him. Charged Hammer is definitely an inferior item on Puppet Master. But he likes it, and listen to him, he's SAYING that It's an inferior item. But it works FOR HIM. And It's not ALL that bad.
God sake guys...
He's saying "This build is kewl when u dont wanna haf harkons" basically, and you're all responding "BUT ITS INFEIRIOR TO HARKONS WTF NOOB"
Oh, and time is a relative aspect. What some people consider "alot of time" doesnt neccesarily have to be alot of time according to others. Personally I consider PMaster very slow at clearing Ancient stacks, compared to say uh The Dark Lady? See, It's relative.
Cut him some slack.
PS: Ironically, there is synergy between Charged Hammer and Harkons Blade. :>
And so does some1 else...ty. Thx 4 the input on the ancient stacks, it takes atleast 1 minute game time, and a lot can happen in that 1 minute as opposed DL clearing it in about 5-10 seconds
Mindfucked1
03-11-2010, 02:31 PM
good for you, who cares?
your itembuild is inferior to atleast 5 items (after harkons)
so why bothering with it? you want to play your hammer, do it. but do not influence others to buy just bad items on heroes.
and clearing the creepstack takes only one minute if you have nothing else except whispering helm and steamboots (a warhammer will quicken it by quite a decent amount)
edit: 1 minute for 2000gold sounds quite fair. it would even be superior if you take two minutes for it!
edit 2:
in one of my posts were several items listed, which are superior to charged hammer. work through them, or test them, they are more efficient in 90% of the cases
steamboots, powersupply/bracer, whispering helm are core
i think we all agree on those items
if you want to skip harkons take at least USEFULL items, and not such a crap like thunderclaw/charged hammer
instead build your shieldbreaker/shrunken head straight on (btw no mention of shrunken---->fail)
continue to build what is needed, puzzlebox, savage mace, hellflower, geometers(my favorite), symbol, sheepstick, whatever you want
long story short: get whispering as soon as possible to start stacking.
build a dps item which helps
get shrunken before or after your dps item of choice
get one of the luxurys.
you can ignore the puzzlebox part, since you considered it already.
AAAAND harkons must be skipped in certain situation. for example if pestilence and another armor reducer are in your team. then you should take shieldbreaker and or another item.
YawningAngel
03-11-2010, 02:37 PM
To be honest, if we all acknowledge that his build is suboptimal, then why even bother posting it? I can give you a suboptimal puppet build very easily - what matters is finding the optimal build.
nimarq
03-11-2010, 02:42 PM
To be honest, if we all acknowledge that his build is suboptimal, then why even bother posting it? I can give you a suboptimal puppet build very easily - what matters is finding the optimal build.
This.
milkheartyou
03-11-2010, 03:17 PM
I dont like this strategy
sHoWTiMe
03-12-2010, 03:37 PM
If you don't want to go harkons, you go geometers + savage mace and shrunken head.
Way better than this thunderclaw build.
Blessed_
03-12-2010, 04:30 PM
If you don't want to go harkons, you go geometers + savage mace and shrunken head.
Way better than this thunderclaw build.
Your build does not really work if there is even one heavy aoe ult, such as zephyr, hag, magmus, behe, etc.
But in most situations it's still more viable than the thunderclaw build.
Mindfucked1
03-12-2010, 06:26 PM
easiest solution, stick to the old build pre buff of harkons.
Shieldbreaker/shrunken and one of the luxurys.
Saturo
03-20-2010, 08:52 AM
Harkons blade makes puppet master the strogest dmg dealer in the game.. I have fun rape face with it so i will get it.. Have fun with ur puzzle box.
Who8MyRice1
03-20-2010, 03:36 PM
*Sigh* What dont you people get? Listen to the man for crying out loud. It's NOT The best build. He NEVER made it for the purposes of owning the Harkons Blade Build. He used this build because he felt like it, and because It works for him. Charged Hammer is definitely an inferior item on Puppet Master. But he likes it, and listen to him, he's SAYING that It's an inferior item. But it works FOR HIM. And It's not ALL that bad.
God sake guys...
He's saying "This build is kewl when u dont wanna haf harkons" basically, and you're all responding "BUT ITS INFEIRIOR TO HARKONS WTF NOOB"
Oh, and time is a relative aspect. What some people consider "alot of time" doesnt neccesarily have to be alot of time according to others. Personally I consider PMaster very slow at clearing Ancient stacks, compared to say uh The Dark Lady? See, It's relative.
Cut him some slack.
PS: Ironically, there is synergy between Charged Hammer and Harkons Blade. :>
So, what you're basically saying is, that he should've made this into a blog instead of making a mostly useless guide and misinforming some new players?
Kk.