Sacrificial Dagger

[xCTBxMav]

Sacrificial Dagger

http://bentqz85.blog.friendster.com/files/btnbloodyknife.jpg


Please vote on concept, not numbers.

This item would be the ultimate sacrifice for any support hero

Item Description:
Your hero experiments with blood magic and learns to sacrifice his own health for an allied hero.
The targeted allied hero takes the amount of health you sacrifice in full.

Targeted Effects:
Your hero takes 500/750/1000 damage and heals the targeted ally 500/750/1000

Items Included:
:NeophytesBook:(1000g) + :IconOfTheGoddess:(3300g) + Recipe (700g) = Total of 5000g for the level 1 item
Recipe can be purchased 2 more times for upgraded item


Stats Given:
Passive:
1/2/3 Health Regeneration
10/15/15% Mana Regeneration
450/500/550 Max Health
400/450/500 Max Mana
10/15/20 Intelligence
Activation:
Sacrifices 500/750/1000 health and heals equally to a targeted ally
Mana Cost: 200

Animation:
I feel it is appropriate to use an animation similar to this video at 1:10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_-TZbRcyRU)


Other:
This Item is Non-Lethal
This Item will only take as much as you can offer (if you have 500 health it will only take 499 health)
This item will only heal an ally to max health
This item has a range of 600

Any Questions?


Changelog:
Changed Numbers and item build

[Fearz]

What happens if the support hero has this @ lvl 3, and has lets say 200 hp.
then uses it on the carry (I assume this is direct removal, not damage to self)

EDIT: didnt see non lethal thingy, so another question: if you have 200 hp and you use it on enemy carry, you get to 1 hp and he gets 1000? or only 199?
saving my vote.

[xCTBxMav]

What happens if the support hero has this @ lvl 3, and has lets say 200 hp.
then uses it on the carry (I assume this is direct removal, not damage to self)

EDIT: didnt see non lethal thingy, so another question: if you have 200 hp and you use it on enemy carry, you get to 1 hp and he gets 1000? or only 199?
saving my vote.

This item can only used on allied heroes and can only heal the amount you give

[DjVirus]

I must say this is a really nice item idea, but it's kinda risky for a player to use his money and his health in the total interest of another player... only if you have in team your "last" chance hero who could change the balance of battle. And I think it's a bad idea the case when u are left with 1 hp (worst scenario) or even 100.. Blood hunter will kill you, scout, pharaoh, etc. What range will be between ally and caster?

[xCTBxMav]

it's kinda risky for a player to use his money and his health in the total interest of another player...

This would be an item that will be used in team play, not pubs. This is also why it has its name.


What range will be between ally and caster?

Great question, I forgot to add this. I figure the range will be somewhere around 600 (The equivalent to the average ult)

[Vulfe]

Potentially problematic when purchased on Accursed.

[Fearz]

Potentially problematic when purchased on Accursed.
this.you could just make " cant buy this sexy thingy on accursed"
same as you couldnt buy port key on andro and devo on dota.

[xCTBxMav]

Potentially problematic when purchased on Accursed.

How so? When healing accursed or using as accursed?

[Vulfe]

this.you could just make " cant buy this sexy thingy on accursed"
same as you couldnt buy port key on andro and devo on dota.
Oh, of course. I just thought I'd point it out. Plus, HoN has no hero-specific item bans as of right now (as far as I know). And I mean using it as Accursed. You could heal yourself for 1000 and damage an enemy for that as well, which is extremely overpowered (especially since Accursed is good support in the first place).

[VitaTimH]

For Accursed, maybe make it direct HP reduction (I THINK Soul Reaper's aura still hurts Accursed under ult?)

I think the numbers are a little too big, but I like the idea. T-up.

[xCTBxMav]

Potentially problematic when purchased on Accursed.

HoN has taken the stance that no items will be banned on certain heroes. The way this would work with accursed is that it would be shown as on cooldown while Accursed's ulti is going.


I think the numbers are a little too big, but I like the idea. T-up.

The numbers have to be fairly large or it will be a worse version of astrolabe

[Cassius1]

sick idea!

[xCTBxMav]

bump

[xCTBxMav]

bump

[Skyve]

I can't help but wonder what Quickblade is doing in the Recipe, since agi-heroes are the last ones that are ever going to buy this. Also, with the formulation "Your Hero takes XYZ damage", Demented should be able to use his Arcane Hide to reduce damage taken, so could Accursed with his shield, which is probebly problematic.

In addition: When buying the recipe again to upgrade, the stats of the item should be upgraded too, not only the health transfer.

[reeceboy]

I agree, it should use neophytes book not quick blade. And also it should go to cooldown if accursed gets and his ulti is activated. Otherwise great item

[Apostate]

I don't think this item fits in HoN very well. Just the concept of having an item like this. T-Down.

[xCTBxMav]

I can't help but wonder what Quickblade is doing in the Recipe, since agi-heroes are the last ones that are ever going to buy this. Also, with the formulation "Your Hero takes XYZ damage", Demented should be able to use his Arcane Hide to reduce damage taken, so could Accursed with his shield, which is probebly problematic.

In addition: When buying the recipe again to upgrade, the stats of the item should be upgraded too, not only the health transfer.

Ya good idea

[Just_The_T1p]

I like this idea but it would see barely any action in regular online play. People when playing support heroes online dont like the idea of dying for a teammate (even if it is a carrier)

[xCTBxMav]

Thats the main thing I like about the item, this is a higher level item which could change the course of the game. This gives support heroes something new to offer to the team.

[xCTBxMav]

bump

[MrCosgrove]

for the price of this items it's fairly useless
this item wont be used at high-level games just because of the high price and the very small benefits it gives
support heroes are normally the most squishiest heroes,
damaging them to heal an ally is not an option for them, because the longer they live, the more they can support
also support heroes would only be able to get this item as a luxury item but:
for the price you are 90% of kuldras what is in every way a superior choice
T-down from me

[Pancakeslp]

Depending on attack type, how would this work with either shrunken head, barrier idol, or void talisman ?

[NV07]

one of the very worst suggestions in a while. go away.

[MADD411]

t-up!

[trYggpAz]

I don't like it sorry

[Corn]

Really is kind of a last resort type of item. Too expensive. Players should be worrying about themselves EXPECIALLY if they are support. A team can get supported if the support is dead.

[jorge69696]

I voted no because it is SO situational. A support hero is much more useful alive than death. Maybe make it take mana away instead of hp.

[Bohun]

nice idea, but i think numbers are a little bit too big.. 1000 hp heal is alot, isnt it like twice as much as ophelia ult heal [on 1 person] ?

also about accursed - cuz it seems the biggest problem imo - maybe instead of banning him from using this item just make him NOT LOSE this 1000 hp if he is under the effect of his ult instead of dealing this damage [ in fact healing him for 1000]

[IAmLadyGaga]

Nobody would get this over sheepstick, sorry. (well, except Accursed if he wasn't prevented from using it somehow...)

[W1S3B0Y]

I really like this item idea, but this is the sort of item that would be used on a hero that doesn't need kills or xp right? So that's say... a support hero. What's the niche about support hero's? Oh yea, they get no farm, and the little farm they do get is spent on wards, and other more important support items (think astrolabe/nomes).

Hence, there is little or no way that this item at its staggering price (and staggering amount of hp loss to cast) will likely ever be bought on any hero.

I suggest making it less expensive (2000-3000g) to make it more viable, and reduce the amount of hp given as a result.

I will however, vote yes because like you said, vote for the concept, and not the numbers.

[Offler]

I'm really skeptical about the price and the amount healed/damage taken. It seems very extreme and I don't think that this item as it is now fits very well into HoN. a 1000 hp heal to me seems extreme based on the kind of healing abilities/items currently present in the game. Even just by concept, a high price, high healing item that deals high damage to user doesn't work for me. Furthermore, I don't see why this item should be able to be upgraded... when would you really need to heal someone for 1000hp? when is a 500hp heal not enough? why would you take away 1000hp from yourself making you really fragile in any teamfight? 500hp makes more sense but still seems extreme. Another point is, what's the cooldown of this item? is it long or short?

And then of course, a list of heroes this would be effective on would be helpful for me to see potential in this item. I don't see too many support heroes that have 1000hp to give away or would rather risk being a very easy target in fights for a 1000hp heal.

Finally, blood chalice seems to cover many of the situations this could be used in. Any support hero with healing abilities and blood chalice can easily get a quick mana burst to heal an ally at the cost of hp.

In my mind, most of the practical uses of this item have already been covered by other items/skills. I don't see it being in HoN.

[Mangs]

Nice idea, but it needs a bigger range, 600 is not enough considering you might go down to 1 hp and this makes you a very easy target for other heroes if you're still in the fray, thus making the item kinda worthless.

Increase the range to 900 maybe, and it will be a lot more usefull for its price.

[radiantice]

I think to make the item more practical as the recipes increase a toggle function should allow you to select the 3 different levels of sacrificing HP. So you could toggle rather then an all or nothing huge burst of HP.

[painkiller`]

Lower the cost, and this will be a solid support item. The support is already giving all his health to heal another hero, it shouldn't take a mountain of gold to make otherwise no support will ever be able to make this.

Upped though.

[razveck]

Since the concept makes it viable only on team games (clans, scrims, etc) and not on pubs, this assumes the supports will actually do their jobs, warding, not stealing farm/kills. Then, this costing 5000 for just the lvl 1 seems kinda unreasonable since no good support hero would ever manage to farm this amount of money in a decent game. Just lower the price somehow, either remove the recipe or change the components.

t-up though

[InsPirati0N]

And what about non-lethal dmg.... Look I'm Accursed i have 800HP.... And i want to heal up Darklady.... DL gets some healHP and Acc Non-Lethal amount of dmg.
FOR EX. ACC 800/1900 DL 200/1400
(1000dmg/heal)
AFTER USAGE. ACC 1/1900 DL 999/1400

[Woozer]

I dislike this item primarily because of its cost. It's gotten by support heroes who want to essentially suicide every fight but it cost like 5k for level 1 of the item. When do they get that kind of farm. I just don't see the point; especially when astrolabe is a portion of the cost, helps everybody's survivability, and has a much easier build-up.

[Tamuz]

i would vote yet but it needs you to make a set ammount , 1k is a good chunk of HP

[Dgenerate`]

Eh. I think this would be too OP.

[fevian]

I don't think it should have upgrades, but I like what you're trying to do. I'll give a T-Up.

[Llama]

Cooldown is going to be important. Might wana throw some numbers out there for that

[Theburned]

Potentially problematic when purchased on Accursed.

make it have a shared cooldown with accursed's ultimate problem solved also make it true damage !!!! (or the damage degeneration idea)
otherwise just go shitload of magic/physical armor and whoops OP item
, nice item on :sand: 200 instant damage to units in 1000 range and gives 1000 healing to an enemy, just get enough regen/health to make this useful.

[winDy]

bad. and why? It's so much hp sacrificed. It's price is insane and the only hero i can see it on is accursed or defiler (as a pure support) but wtfbacon really. bad item concpept I'd say.

But if you change items / prices etc. MAYBE but there's still others more worth things to do ^^

[Kuhvacako]

this.you could just make " cant buy this sexy thingy on accursed"
same as you couldnt buy port key on andro and devo on dota.

you couldn't get blink dagger on pudge and vengeful in dota to prevent you perma disabling some one by hooking or swapping them on to one of the warding platforms

[EchoX]

i'd say it would be a good item it it sacrificed less hp.

plus in games you usually sacrifice more life and heal less to the target(500 sacrificed, 300 heal etc).

[N]

It would make support much more useful, especially late game. But 1000 health is a lot of health. Most heroes have less than 2000 by the time the game ends.

It really depends on what kind of cooldown it would have. Actually..that is kind of a non issue since the whole concept is that you are giving the hp rather than just healing.

[rooobe]

Wait, my all-killing mate Chronos has lost HP? Full replenishment from a safe range, yeah!!

I would be okay with the amount if it would stun both for 1 second and as the hp travels trees should be destroyed in a large radius to make the sacrificee visible.

[pwn_U_fast]

/support

[dvnt]

This is not a good item. I can think of absolutely no situation where any support hero would want to get this over ANY other item in the game. The price is WAY too high and the damage you do to yourself is WAY too high. When will a support ever just be in a fight and need to kill themselves to heal their teammate. I don't see how this could even potentially be more useful than any item currently in the game. That being said....

Let's step back and break it down for a second.
-Costs 5/5.7/6.4k gold
-3 hp regen
-15% mana regen
-HP
-Mana

Okay, so this item costs a whopping 5k+ gold, gives no stats, has a stupid small hp and mana regen, and soulbooster standard hp and mana. Here's the kicker though, you get to kill yourself to heal someone else.

Please tell me how killing yourself is more useful than just sheeping the enemy that is killing your ally. Honestly, I need some explaining as to what hero exactly would use this and under what particular situation. Please provide me and any other doubting soul the necessary information to make a fair judgment.

Here is a tip from me though that maybe, MAYBE, could make your item viable. Lower the gold cost to something in the range of 2700-3200 and lower the max heal to something like 500-600 and give some sort of buff. Maybe make it cost both hp and mana. It could just give temporary max hp like Devourer's ult which would be all around much more useful as you wouldn't be limited to killing yourself during the battle to save your buddy.

[pwn_U_fast]

^^ didn't read correctly. it does transfers health from you to ally which doesn't mean you will die.

i can think of a million situations where im a lvl 14 support with decent farm but cant buy an item that will really help in teamfights because im so out lvld.

instead, when my carry goes into battle i will just cast, and baby sit him until he needs health and then i will use sacrficial dagger.

what this item does is effectively allows a support hero who has mediocore farm and bad scaling who has been babysitting all game, continue to baby sit into the late game effectively.

[Kalium]

This item would only be viable in near death situations, in which using it would bring you certain death. But in case of death, there is already an item that does that. Sacrificial Stone heals in an AoE around you when you die, and at the first level, its combined heal is more than this item's last level. And, as probably intended, this item shares one name and one recipe item with Sacrificial Stone, which fulfills its role much better. So, sorry, but it wont work for me.

[dvnt]

^^ didn't read correctly. it does transfers health from you to ally which doesn't mean you will die.

i can think of a million situations where im a lvl 14 support with decent farm but cant buy an item that will really help in teamfights because im so out lvld.

instead, when my carry goes into battle i will just cast, and baby sit him until he needs health and then i will use sacrficial dagger.

what this item does is effectively allows a support hero who has mediocore farm and bad scaling who has been babysitting all game, continue to baby sit into the late game effectively.

No, I read it right. I didn't literally mean it kills you, but you will die right after using it, because it will take you VERY low. And no offense, but having 1200 rating kids come in here to defend this god awful item isn't helping this guy. 5000 gold is not something a support hero is going to get easily. You will not see glacius, voodoo, andro with this item ever. Think about this item in a competitive level not some 1200 publevel scrubfest.

[calm]

i think it's op, and also its redundant with andromeda's swap
it's also just a silly concept

[Puchi]

I like the idea but i think that this kind of luxuary support item wont se much action due to the fact that it is to hard to get on a support hero but like i said i like it,.

[xCTBxMav]

I come a very long time after creating this post and now a hero has this ability :D lulz

[MacroHard]

Potentially problematic when purchased on Accursed.

It would be direct HP removal, so Accursed would still lose health while ulting. Same thing happens if Accursed uses Chalice while ulting... his health still goes down.

It is most problematic on Martyr:
Heal ally for 1000 Health -> nuke for max damage/slow -> ult -> both you and ally heal to full health