Serpent Guard

[SUNSfan]

As always, please vote on the concept and not the numbers (as they are subject to change).


Preface


I was trying to think of an item that would allow intelligence heroes to be a little more viable when it gets into late game, which is when the high DPS carries completely take over. Let me be clear, I don't have an issue with the direction this game is going but I do feel like there should be more options for the squishy heroes when late game arrives. I think a big reason I thought of this item is because of the fact that the Shrunken Head is extremely effective and is used so consistently. If there is an item, such as the Shrunken Head, that is bought in just about every game in order to counter magic damage, shouldn't there be one to counter the autoattacking ability that some heroes possess in late game? Some of you will read this and say, well what about the Void Talisman? My response would be that the Void Talisman is a complete niche item that is not nearly flexible enough to be used on a consistent basis.


This also provides a good opportunity to use the Snake Bracelet and Major Totem in another recipe. So without further ado, I give you the Serpent Guard.


Item


Snake Bracelet (1800)
http://www.hackztor.com/shannon/hero/Item_SnakeBracelet.jpg

+

Platemail (1400)
http://www.hackztor.com/shannon/hero/Item_Platemail.jpg
+

Major Totem(540)
http://www.hackztor.com/shannon/hero/recipe.jpg
=

Serpent Guard(3740)
http://www.hackztor.com/shannon/hero/Inv_chest_mail_02.png

Passive Bonuses:
25% Evasion
10 Armor
5 Strength
5 Agility
5 Intelligence

Activation:
75% Evasion for 6 seconds (Superior Magic)

Manacost: 75
Cooldown: 60 seconds


Explanation

This item provides armor and evasion in a single package, which by itself would be useful to many heroes. The activation of this allows for the wielder to evade an overall 75% (that would be +50% on top of the original 25%). This is an item that could be used in so many different ways, making it extremely versatile. For example, you could use it to take less damage as an initiator or you could use it on a caster in order to survive an onslaught from the opposing carry. Either way I think this provides a good counter to hard carries in many aspects.

Balance

I was thinking that the Shrunken Head (3900 gold) has no real counter other than physical damage; and since the Serpent Guard has a similar price, it should provide the opposite (aka no counter aside from magic damage). Thus, I don't think the Savage Mace should go through the 75% activatable evasion. Because of this, I made the evasion Superior Magic. Keep in mind that the Savage Mace would still counter the passive 25% evasion when the item is not activated.

Please leave comments regarding the concept of this item. Thanks :)







Changelog:



2-25-10: Lowered manacost from 100 to 75

2-25-10: Lowered Evasion from 80 to 60 and then back to 75 :)

2-25-10: Implemented major totem into recipe (thanks daywiss)

[xMarti]

I think superior magic won't help against savage mace imho

[SUNSfan]

I think superior magic won't help against savage mace imho

You may be right. The point I was trying to make is that, if implemented, the activatable portion of evasion should not be counterable by Savage Mace.

[Verisi]

I kind of find it boring and pointless.

Reasoning:
Void Talisman.

You really think NT is a niche item that doesn't fit more situations than ones your suggestion would fit in? Void Talisman gives stats (decent for the price) and generally helps under more various circumstances. Your item is less consistent and less useful, as you'd need to make yourself threatening before farming for this (as it does not help in any aspect other than self-protection), thereby making it extraneous, especially due to its cost.

[SUNSfan]

I kind of find it boring and pointless.

Reasoning:
Void Talisman.

You really think NT is a niche item that doesn't fit more situations than ones your suggestion would fit in? Void Talisman gives stats (decent for the price) and generally helps under more various circumstances. Your item is less consistent and less useful, as you'd need to make yourself threatening before farming for this (as it does not help in any aspect other than self-protection), thereby making it extraneous, especially due to its cost.


We'll agree to disagree I suppose. I agree that the 7 stat bonus from void talisman is nice but I also think the passive evasion and armor you gain from this item are nothing to scoff at. Prices can change and I think the ability to attack while the item is active makes it more viable on more than just intel heroes.

[daywiss]

while i dont think this item is pointless, it is a bit boring. i would suggest perhaps replace recipe with major totem, giving you maybe 5 or more to all stats. the active ability i think could be more interesting, perhaps an N second evasion aura to teammates in aoe or something like that, though i dont think sunsfan is going in that direction.

i could see this being used as a decent armor alternative to frostplate/demonic plate, as it is cheaper and possibly makes you more tanky, though its lacking in any sort of team synergy like the other two.

[SUNSfan]

good suggestion on the major totem, i added it ;)

[LightofdaY]

25% evasion is a tad much. Especially if tank is over 4k with life steal. This item could possibly be Chrono's best item.

[SUNSfan]

25% evasion is a tad much. Especially if tank is over 4k with life steal. This item could possibly be Chrono's best item.


The Snake Bracelet gives 25% evasion already, I didn't add to it.

[Saxke]

So... Chronos with 20% evasion, butterfly, and this item... try to kill him :$!!

[Leetkrew]

I think this would be a good item, great for those clutch/close call players.

But on the other hand, this item could prove to be really IMBA if played right.

All in all t-UP!

[SUNSfan]

om nom nom

[SUNSfan]

bumpy

[HeLL_KiLLer]

I voted yes, thought it NEEDS SERIOUS improvement. Too op item(75% evasion will **** up every agi hero, plus armor plus passive evasion), and why the hell major totem?

[ForTheSwarm]

So... Chronos with 20% evasion, butterfly, and this item... try to kill him :$!!

too bad evasion doesn't stack.

[MADD411]

I like the picture for your armor. where's you get it?

[SUNSfan]

I like the picture for your armor. where's you get it?


search for wow wiki on google..its the motherload :)

[sage62]

I can just imagine this things activate on Sand Wraith, 95% evade:D
I like it, seems like a good alternative to Daemonic or Frost

[docterj208]

My only problem for this item (I gave a t-up btw), is that this item doesn't really help you or the team out as much as it should.

Basically, its a survivability item, sure, but it doesn't really give you much else.

The closest comparison to this item I can give would be Helm of the Black legion. Helm costs a bit less, but gives you arguably more/less survivability.

Look at this this way. You are mostly immune for 6 seconds (which is great against physical attacks), but you don't get the power to really do anything about it from this item. Plus, you can still be hurt with any type of spell or disable. (not sure if you can evade while stunned/hexed in this game)

Helm on the other hand gives you lots of health, has a high percentage to reduce incoming damage, and gives you hp regeneration to boot. From an item cost perspective, this is the potential better buy.

The only real hero I can see getting a big benefit from this is Lego with his taunt as that will force a physical attack.




Just figured I would also mention void talisman. Void gives a 100% physical immunity but reduces your move speed (I think) and lowers magical armor. However, its roughly half the cost!

[Izual]

Looks good to me.

[ScythemaN]

i like the idea, might bring heroes like sand wrait back into the game

[Kizetsu]

too bad evasion doesn't stack.

I thought with the recent changes to Chronos' Rewind, it's no longer considered an Evasion Property?

[SUNSfan]

My only problem for this item (I gave a t-up btw), is that this item doesn't really help you or the team out as much as it should.

Basically, its a survivability item, sure, but it doesn't really give you much else.

The closest comparison to this item I can give would be Helm of the Black legion. Helm costs a bit less, but gives you arguably more/less survivability.

Look at this this way. You are mostly immune for 6 seconds (which is great against physical attacks), but you don't get the power to really do anything about it from this item. Plus, you can still be hurt with any type of spell or disable. (not sure if you can evade while stunned/hexed in this game)

Helm on the other hand gives you lots of health, has a high percentage to reduce incoming damage, and gives you hp regeneration to boot. From an item cost perspective, this is the potential better buy.

The only real hero I can see getting a big benefit from this is Lego with his taunt as that will force a physical attack.

Just figured I would also mention void talisman. Void gives a 100% physical immunity but reduces your move speed (I think) and lowers magical armor. However, its roughly half the cost!


thx for the comments, u bring up some good points. you bring up the void talisman, which is good, because this is where I originally got this idea from. I wanted an item that was similar to the void talisman, but that could be used on a more consistent basis. I mean, why do we see shrunken head every game and not the void talisman? the reason is because you are slowed while using it and you cannot physically attack. I also like the comparison you make with helm of the black legion. Helm is very good early-mid game, but tapers off towards the end. When i'm playing with heroes like defiler and I don't want to get Void (b/c of its drawbacks), the Serpent guard would be a great alternative to the HotBL because it provides +5 to all stats, a lot of armor, and a great passive and active evasion. Don't sleep on the armor as you can argue (depending on how low your base armor is) that the passive evasion + armor will give you more survivability than the helm of the black legion (and it scales into late game unlike HotBL). Add to that the fact that you can actively evade 75% of physical damage and I think you have an item that far surpasses the helm.

I still think that the shrunken head would be used far more often than this item as it is still somewhat situational, but overall much more consistent.

[Ashkahn]

cool idea

[Paklu]

Shrunken head is bought often because most competitive teams don't use high dps carries but pack a ton of magic damage. If for some reason players pack a ton of carries there shouldn't be a late game for the team with abilities should win early. Dps carrys are already rarely used so i think they shouldn't be nerfed more.

[docterj208]

is this item purgable?

[SUNSfan]

Shrunken head is bought often because most competitive teams don't use high dps carries but pack a ton of magic damage. If for some reason players pack a ton of carries there shouldn't be a late game for the team with abilities should win early. Dps carrys are already rarely used so i think they shouldn't be nerfed more.


I agree that magic heavy is a very viable strat, but turtling for your AGI carry is still just as viable. weren't you here for the first 8 months of hon competitive play? was all agi carries.

[SUNSfan]

is this item purgable?

I'd say no since shrunken is not purgeable

[AltumDiligo]

I like it

[MichaelBurge]

you could use it on a caster in order to survive an onslaught from the opposing carry

I take it you can cast it on others then?

There are a couple things you might want to think about:

* Should your item stack with magic immunity? If so, then it's not helping squishy INT heroes at all. My Soul Reaper is putting this effect along with a Shrunken Head on Dark Lady and there is literally absolutely nothing you can do to stop her for 6 seconds. Even if I misunderstood you, it still might be too powerful to be almost invulnerable even if you have to buy both items(or pick Jeraziah).

* It might help if you change "gives 75% evasion" to "reduces incoming physical damage by 75%". This is actually a buff, since it would block Deadwood's ulti and other such things. But it would remove all the confusion from Savage Mace not working properly; after all, a Savage Mace isn't magic so why should Superior Magic stop it? Nerf the item in other ways to compensate. Remember also that regular armor stacks with this, making it a mini-Jeraziah ulti(you can instead make it a +30 armor buff or something); and that Harkon's Blade would bypass it entirely(but then you'd get a Shrunken Head instead, right?).

* Void Talisman has the drawbacks that you can't attack while it's activated, you can't cast it on others, it only lasts for 4 seconds instead of 6, and it doesn't stack with Shrunken Head. Is the price increase really worth removing almost every drawback on Void Talisman? And Void Talisman is already the late-game item of choice competitively, because none of these except the 4 seconds are drawbacks for them and it gives great stats for the price. If I'm Demented Shaman lategame, I'll agree the passive is useful, but how does the activateable help me over Void Talisman against an opposing Dark Lady?

* For heroes using this on themselves, the only ones that would buy this item for that purpose explicitly would be Defiler/Soul Reaper/Torturer/Zephyr, maybe a few others. These "tank-carries" are already very strong in competitive play right now. You say it's priced similarly to Shrunken Head, but remember that a Shrunken isn't nearly as helpful when it's not turned on; your item gives 25% evasion, 10 armor, and some decent stats as well. To make it more in line with a Shrunken, you might buff the stats but remove the passive evasion and armor entirely. Feel free to buff the activateable to compensate(maybe throw in a ton of armor as well).

* How does the activateable stack with the passive? Do they not stack at all, stack "linearly"(100% = 25% + 75% with the 25% countered by Savage Mace), or do they stack "multiplicatively"(81.25% evasion = 100-(100-25%)(100-75%)?

I voted yes, though this item is in need of heavy rebalancing.

[CobaltBlue]

I like it.

I guess I'd prefer something like 0.5 second activation, 12 second duration, and 150 second cool-down, but I'm guessing most people wouldn't agree with me. :)