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blueseph
02-20-2010, 01:34 AM
The Zen of Mindgames
Mindgames are a very difficult subject to cover. I cannot teach you every single form of mindgames that there are, but with this guide I hope to "open your eyes" to them and allow you to practice and improvise your own. The majority of this guide assumes that you have enough experience to predict your enemies movements and to react accordingly. Even so, it may take you a few games to solidly grasp the concepts. If you aren't experienced enough to pull off these moves well, don't be put off. Time and practice.

Why zen? Playing in an incredibly focused fashion is not the best way to juke well. If you're relaxed and able to think calmly, you'll be able to play much, much better. A tetris trance, or a "zen-like state".

What are mindgames?
Mindgames are definited as an act or series of acts of calculated psychological manipulation, especially in order to confuse or intimidate. This is done primarily through using a disparity of information. Juking, for example, is a prime example of a mindgame. You use the fact that you know where you're going and the fact that your opponent has to guess where you're going to shake him off your trail.

There are two "types" of mindgames. Defensive mindgames and offensive mindgames

Defensive
The goal of defensive mindgames is to escape alive. You don't have the tools to seal the deal and you're just trying to buy yourself 3 seconds of free time to teleport out or wait on a defensive cooldown to hopefully get out of a bad situation.

Offensive
Offensive mindgames do just the opposite of defensive. You use quick psychology and usually a multitude of tactics to overpower an opponent. The tools are various and the techniques varied but the end result is always the same: dead badguys.

Are mindgames useful?
Aside from ingame benefits, mindgames are incredibly demoralizing. The enemy turns a sure death around and lands a double kill on both of you. A carry with barely any HP sits out in the open and you slink in to snake the kill and get triple stunned to death. Your entire team is chasing a low HP int hero who seemingly disappears into the trees.

Frustrated (lmao nt)? Angry (umad?)? That's the entire point. Someone who's frustrated doesn't play nearly as well as a level headed player. Everyone gets frustrated. Not everyone seeks to exploit that.

Do I have to be 2k+ to use these?
No! Not in the slighest. Even at 1500 mindgames come in handy. Just realize that the players in the 1500 bracket think differently from the players in the 1800 bracket. In the 1800 bracket they EXPECT you to juke. In the 1500 bracket they may not know what juking is. An 1800 player expects you to abuse the fog. A 1500 may assume you just disappeared. Learn to differentiate between them and choose your tactics accordingly.

Fundamentals
Use Homecoming Stones
You would never leave base without any items, right? It's suicide. You can easily get overpowered, and it's absolutely foolish! So why would you leave without a Homecoming Stone? It costs 135g and can save you a whole lot more. It denies your enemies a lot of gold, a sizable chunk of experience, and a good amount of time. There's no more devastating mindgame than being able to simply teleport away in front of a pair of gankers. You don't NEED to be hidden for the full 3 seconds. You just need to be hidden long enough to get away.

Being prepared includes knowing who can STOP you from doing something. Many heroes have stuns or ministuns that can stop a teleport dead in its tracks. Knowing when it's safe to teleport is as important as being able to teleport. If they've used up all their chain stuns and ministuns, teleport away!


Example
http://i50.tinypic.com/2en7v5j.gif
Abusing Fog of War
Fog of War an essential part of mind games. If an enemy loses sight of you in the fog of war, they stop attacking/chasing. If an enemy tries to go through a path in the fog that's blocked, they go a different route, rather than the straightforward way. If at a certain point in your attack animation the enemy becomes "fogged", the attack cancels. Due to these limitations imposed by the fog we are easily able to abuse these to our advantage.

The easiest way to slink into the Fog of War is to hide behind a tree or go up a ramp. This very temporarily renders you invisible while your opponents regain vision on you. At this point you can continue to hide behind trees or move up z-levels to maintain the fog advantage.

The one thing you NEVER want to do is be predictable. Running a predictable manner allows your enemies to predict your movements and be one step ahead of you. If you have to and it's safe to do so, backtrack. If you run back towards their base instead of beelining it towards yours, they most likely won't predict this and you'll have shaken them. If you ALWAYS head for their base first they'll eventually wise up and catch you. Be variable and unpredictable in your juking.


Example
Swiftblade is in some deep ****. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MucfQeSN9Yw) Two disablers are on him, and if he gets stunned at all, he's dead. No doubt about it. He has nowhere to go and backs himself into a corner. Hammerstorm and Electrician aren't stupid; they know he's there. As they charge into him, Swiftblade spins, rendering them unable to disable him. He knows he won't be able to get to the tower before the spin is over, so he gets to a spot where he'll be able to juke a lot more. He downs a tree and slips into the neutral camp, waiting for his enemies to follow exactly where he went. They don't, however. He predicts that they went the opposite way and sits back for a second, picking up the minotaur and another level. As they go the long way around, they're spotted by his pulled creeps. Swiftblade stays hidden in a little cubby. After not seeing him, they think he went the other way. Both go on a wild goose hunt, and after that juke Hammerstorm loses interest. Electrician sticks with him, and after a quick juke from Swiftblade FINALLY gets his Static Grip off, but Hammerstorm is nowhere to be found. With no damage, Electrician gives up the chase and heads back to his lane.

Unpredictability
You could have pulled off the greatest juke of the century. You know it was solid, clean, and you are definitely going to lose them. There's no way anyone can follow you after that move. But lo and behold, their entire team is waiting for you right as you come out. It's your best juke! It's worked three times before, there's no way it could have failed you!

A big part of playing mindgames and beating someone who plays them is to predict their thoughts. The best way to avoid being beaten is to be unpredictable. If you usually go one way, go the other. If you always blink a certain direction, blink another. If your first instinct is to go one way, go another, because your opponent's first thoughts would be "he's going to go here, so if I stun here i'll get him". The ability to stop tunnel-visioning and realizing you might be doing something predictable is the first step to being able to play mindgames well.

Turning around at unexpected moments also plays a big part. People are greedy. Normally, if you KNOW you have a good chance of killing someone, you're willing to take a tower hit or two. If they keep running, you back off. If they turn around, however, you might be inclined to chase again just because your chances improved. This cycle won't repeat forever, but the few tower hits really can be a large part in turning the fight around in your favor.


Example
http://i39.tinypic.com/2mzw76o.gif
Baiting Intelligently
Baiting is simple. You sit out at low HP and die, so that your team has a chance to kill them. You trade yourself for a possible kill and maybe a double if you get really lucky. This is not favorable for you in the least.

Baiting intelligently is the exact opposite. The end result of intelligent baiting is always the same: you survive and either you net hero kills, your team nets hero kills, or the enemy runs with their tails between their legs back to the fountain pissed as all hell.

What's the difference? Preparation and risk management. If there's a Defiler who can kill you in a single nuke, you may not want to be bait. If you can survive a Defiler nuke and have sufficient HP to soak one auto attack, you're in prime position. If they can disable you from start to finish, it's not a good place to be. If you can avoid the chain disables by slinking into the fog as one disable comes at you, go for it.

Sometimes randomness does happen. Blacksmith gets a multicast and dominates you. Thunderbringer pops his ult from way across the map. Things happen, but the majority of the time it's worth baiting.


Example
In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8LQk5gd6M), Armadon does lots of little things that really turn the fight around in his favor, going from being in incredible danger to scoring a triple kill. Taking a few hits from the tower brings his HP down to a bait-able proportion, enticing Thunderbringer to finally come out of hiding and focus on Hellbringer. After the melees have used their blinks, Armadon begins to spam quills, staying in line of sight of the enemies, taking a few hits to the back to load up Armordillo a little, but most importantly to bait a futile chase. After Hellbringer drops, all the enemies lock onto Armadon. Hook, line, and sinker. Armadon takes off, leading them into a good, open area where juking is near impossible and the quills will hit them all. As Magebane gets low, Armadon quills and quickly hits the stop button, just long enough for Predator to hit him and set off Armordillo. Repositioning for one last set of quills pockets all three kills, leveling Armadon twice, from five to seven, and giving him a 700g~ lead.


Illusions
Illusions are a strong resource in your arsenal, but it's very difficult to use well. Using a bottled illusion rune to mitigate a Moon Queen's ult can save your life and turn the tide of a fight around. Using a single illusion to soak up the entire ult is going to have an even stronger effect on the Moon Queen. Any spell used on an illusion means one less spell used on you, so baiting with an illusion pushes you even close to a victory.

If you want to bait with an illusion you have to remember that illusions deal less damage and take more. If you deal any damage that isn't a last hit or you take any damage you've given up the goose. Playing a little defensive with the illusion and then suddenly "making a mistake" makes your opponent think he has a window of opportunity to pounce, and he's going to. When he makes his mistakes, jump in and capitalize.

In addition to baiting, you can pull off a risky maneuver to possibly throw people off your trail. If you're fighting someone and they pop an illusion rune, you're going expect one of them to run away and the others to stay and fight. They've obviously moved their real character and abandoned their illusions, right? What if they didn't? If they left the real one attacking as a decoy, you'd be wasting your time, mana, and cooldowns on a wild goose chase, putting more distance between you and the real one. He's gone and you've just been baited by an illusion.

If you're able to slink into the Fog, you can pop an illusion and run it a completely different way to throw someone off of your trail. You need to hide your hero and your other illusion for your mindgame to be effective. If you run your illusion in a semi-believable route, the enemy will chase you and buy you a bunch of time to escape.

Pay Attention
Moreso than any other item, any other technique, any other idea, the one single fundamental skill that's going to win you games is the ability to zoom out. Zoom out of just focusing on lasthits and denies and learning to incorporate everything in this guide into your gameplay. Learn to make a note of things. Does Defiler have enough mana to kill me? Can Pollywog Priest kill before I can kill Pestilence? Why did I just gain a Power Supply charge? Will anyone interfere negatively with my plan? The ability to have court vision and map awareness will impact your skill more than I could ever hope to teach. Force yourself to realize you're focusing way too much on last hitting and denying, and take a second to survey your surroundings. Take a quick enemy headcount. Check your positioning, mana and health on both sides, items, possible surprise ultimates. Being prepared will win you a fight much, much more than sheer luck will.

A big part of learning to be prepared and catching your opponent offguard is to make a move as you're about to level up. This affords you more mana, more HP, a stronger nuke/disable, and harder auto-attacks. Leveling up affords you one or two more attacks and a good charge of mana towards another nuke.

Within the first 30 seconds of laning with and against someone you have a decent ballpark estimate of how good they are. If your opponent suddenly gets overly aggressive when it's not a logical step, you know something's coming. Back up, run away, do whatever you can to be defensive. If your overly aggressive opponent gets very defensive, he might be afraid of a gank that's not coming. Be more aggressive at that point. Be aware of people who "fake" these things, however. If your opponent plays defensively to bait you into attacking recklessly, you can easily get caught in a 3v1 situation. Be aware, and be prepared.


Example
http://i39.tinypic.com/sbsrhx.gif
Items
Runes of the Blight/Logger's Hatchet

Description
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/09/Runes_of_the_Blightitem.gif/60px-Runes_of_the_Blightitem.gif
Target: Trees
Range: 100
Heals self for 115 Health over 16 seconds. Destroys target Tree.
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/04/Logger%27s_Hatchetitem.gif/60px-Logger%27s_Hatchetitem.gif
Target: Trees
Range: 100
Cooldown: 15 seconds
Destroys target tree.

Use
Both these items will knock down a single tree (multiple runes knock down multiple trees), allowing you to sneak through previously impassable routes. This is invaluable for juking, opening up dead ends and creating new juke points.

The runes give you the added benefit of increasing your regen, giving you 115 extra HP if the fight lasts 16 seconds, which is equivalent to one extra bracer's worth of HP. The hatchet, in addition to giving you enhanced farming capabilities, doesn't run out. The trade-off is that hatchet has a cooldown, while the runes have limited use and their regen override each other.

Example
See Abusing Fog of War.


Power Supply

Description
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Power_Supplyitem.gif/60px-Power_Supplyitem.gif
A charge is gained every time a nearby enemy casts a spell. When activated, all charges are removed while health and mana are restored.

Cooldown: 17 seconds
Restores 15 health and mana per charge. Maximum of 15 charges.

Use
Powersupply is, without a doubt, the most overpowered item in the game. No other item under a thousand gold instantly heals you, instead requiring time to cure your wounds. With this in mind, we can effectively add (charges*15) HP to your total. This does not protect you from large nukes, but it does give you the boost if something is whittling away at your HP in small, calculable chunks.

Powersupply should be used very defensively. If you save your powersupply until the very last hit, you bait your opponent to continue fighting. Ideally 225 damage HP should give you enough HP to turn around and finish your opponent off. The 225 mana should also give you enough for a nuke, and in combination really turn a low level fight around entirely. Even if your nuke is on cooldown, the HP provided should buy you a second or two of time.

Example
This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4ZHWjIM3NU) is an example of good power supply usage. Hellbringer knows that Deadwood's team would be in no position to help, and though his team is injured they will be able to provide sufficient help. Hellbringer sits around mid, waiting for Deadwood to try his luck. As Deadwood log throws, Hellbringer turns around and begins to run, baiting Deadwood into a chase which puts him in a very bad of position. A good falconpunch would put Hellbringer down before any of his team really can help, so it's a sure bet for Deadwood. The root lands, and he winds up. Hellbringer pops his powersupply, giving him enough HP to survive his punch and enough mana to land a Life Void. The Void gives him enough buffer to survive one auto attack, and his team mops up Deadwood. A sure kill turns into a frustrating death.


Bottle

Description
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/66/Bottleitem.gif/60px-Bottleitem.gif
Cooldown: 0.5 seconds
Restores 135 Health and 70 Mana on self over 3 seconds. Dispels upon taking damage.
Contains up to 3 charges.

Use
Bottle is the most versatile item you can buy. You gain both mana and health in one swig, and at a relatively quick rate. The downside is that once you take damage the regen stops. Having three charges means three chances to regen, a very lenient item. The fact that it cancels due to damage can be exploited in multiple ways. If you have a DOT that does damage in set intervals, you can drink in between ticks to regen a bit. If you're juking through the forest, it's the perfect time to drink. You can come out of the forest with more HP and enough mana for a nuke or two to completely change the fight around. Even if you cut through the fog for a second, it's an advantageous time to take a swig. Any bit of HP/mana will help.

Powerful runes will win you a fight, but if used incorrectly could lose you a kill. Popping a double damage right as the fight starts will probably equal your opponent running in fear. Popping it as soon as you start to "lose" the fight almost guarantees the opponent will stay until the end, convinced that they can do more damage than you can. Little do they know that your DD rune will put you miles ahead. Save Illusions for being able to block your enemy from running or pumping out even more damage.


Portal Key

Description
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/6e/Portal_Keyitem.gif/60px-Portal_Keyitem.gif
When activated, teleports user a short distance to a targeted location.
Range: 1200
Mana cost: 75
Cooldown: 14 seconds

Use
A Portal Key allows you to instantly move to any position up to 1200 units away. This affords you perfect positioning and a disjoint, both of which are abusable. The positioning aspect allows you to land a difficult-to-hit stun easier, juke an area based (not unit based) stun, or slip ahead of the enemy to buy yourself some more auto attacks and even an extra spell. The disjoint can entirely avoid a nuke/disable provided it's missile based (such as Andromeda's Comet).

Portal Key juking requires immaculate timing. If you see Pestilence flying full steam right towards you, you know he's going to land a stun. If you blink too early, he's going to save his stun and get you regardless. If you activate it too late, nothing will happen; it deactivated. If you pull it off right, he's going to stun air, and you'll have a much easier time punishing him for his mistakes.

Portal Key is gotten a lot later in the game than the previous two items, but it scales a lot further late game. HP is quickly outpaced, but you can never replace prime positioning.

Example
http://i47.tinypic.com/312i6f4.gif


Storm Spirit

Description
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/fa/Stormspirititem.gif/60px-Stormspirititem.gif
When activated, traps a targeted hero in a Cyclone for 2.5 seconds.
Radius: 600
Mana cost: 75
Cooldown: 30 seconds

Use
Storm Spirit is generally used offensively, allowing you to place traps (Pollywog's Wards) or time hard-to-lane stuns (Pyromancer's stun). While a fine use of the item, it really shines when used defensively. A 2.5 second immunity to everything is invaluable to avoiding a really nasty combination, and if you have a Portal Key you only have to buy half a second of time to be able to blink to safety. 2.5 seconds also buys you a good amount of time for your cooldowns to come back up.

Example
http://i48.tinypic.com/2mx2w7s.jpg



Geometer's Bane

Description
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4e/Geometer%27s_Baneitem.gif/60px-Geometer%27s_Baneitem.gif
Mana cost: 165
Cooldown: 50 seconds
Spawn 2 Illusions of self. The illusions take 3.5 times normal damage and deal 33% of your attack damage, and inherit properties from you. The Illusions have a 20 second life time.
Dispels all Buffs and Debuffs on use.

Use
Geometer's gives you illusions on demand. This is generally used offensively to increase your damage by a large amount, but it doesn't have many mindgames options. It can be used defensively, however, for a variety of things.

First and foremost, it can be used all the ways stated above in the Illusions section. Using your Geometer's and running away with an illusion is particularly effective, as most people forget to control the illusions while fleeing for their life. Secondly, Geometer's Bane dispels all buffs and debuffs, including DoTs and dust of revelation. This item has a disjoint built in, meaning if timed right you can avoid a killer stun, but it can also be used to dispel a deadly DoT. It's also very good if you're a stealth hero (or have the ability to stealth), dispelling dust and allowing a clean getaway. Be wary of wards though, as geometer's does nothing against this.


Closing
The majority of the time, luck does not play into mindgames. Sometimes, yes, legionnaire gets one extra spin, or blacksmith gets a multicast, but most of the time its a skill vs skill game. Quick reflexes, mental math, and calm play are much more dominant in determining the decision of a fight.

You aren't going to start off as a pro. You are going to mess up a juke, going back and forth for a second or two, giving your opponent an easy kill. You think you're being unpredictable when you're being very easy to read. If you keep being killed when you try to play mindgames, it's not luck that's sided against you, it's your inexperience. Don't be discouraged. Every good player started off being laughed at and ridiculed. With time comes more experience and an increased confidence in what you do. Always remember: good player knows when to press his luck and when to run with his tail between his legs

Be aggressive, but controlled. Be confident. Let your opponents know that you'll fight tooth and nail at any amount of HP. You aren't going to be pushed over, because when push comes to shove you're going to outplay them.

Every.
Single.
Time.

blueseph
02-20-2010, 01:35 AM
reserved

LoveFoolf
02-20-2010, 01:55 AM
Awesome post. I really enjoyed the read, it's cool-y laid out too.

I'd offer critique but I'm about to start a game ;)

KT

Blue_Aura
02-20-2010, 02:33 AM
I also enjoyed the read, can't wait till you finish it :D

blueseph
02-20-2010, 07:41 PM
is that gif not loading all the way for anyone else? pestilence is supposed to stun, but it doesn't load that far for me.

D0ri
02-20-2010, 09:36 PM
nice read

that gif works for me.

ElementUser
02-20-2010, 09:55 PM
Nice thread, didn't finish reading the whole thing (I will tommorow though) :).

It's fun blinking away at the OPTIMAL time to see your opponent waste spells (potentially ultimates sometimes LOL) on you.

iGame
02-20-2010, 10:11 PM
Great read. Interesting to read something about this apsect of the game :)

Nolifer
02-20-2010, 10:35 PM
Good read, well written.

Well_Shebber
02-21-2010, 10:39 PM
Awesome guide. I'll direct some of my friends here :D

LegoPirate
02-21-2010, 10:50 PM
well done, especially on a topic so hard to teach/quantify as mindgames.

Shadz
02-22-2010, 03:41 PM
Quite helpful =]

blueseph
02-25-2010, 02:26 AM
new gif up. i seriously remade it like seven times because for some reason fireworks wanted to repeat frames over and over. this is the best i got it in seven attempts. i'll probably try to go back tomorrow and fix it, but for now this is fine.

MindBender
02-25-2010, 03:27 AM
I found that using StormSpirit and Assassins Shroud is a better combo for baiting. In other words use SS on yourself and then cue your AS. Works 4 out of 5 times

Metnahsin
02-25-2010, 06:24 AM
People should read totallnewbie's guides back on the Dota-Allstars Forum. I'll post them here if I find them, can't remember my account details.

ElementUser
02-25-2010, 06:41 AM
Nice Stormspirit timing lol.

blueseph
02-25-2010, 10:38 AM
Nice Stormspirit timing lol.

good old predictability.


I found that using StormSpirit and Assassins Shroud is a better combo for baiting. In other words use SS on yourself and then cue your AS. Works 4 out of 5 times

it's really hard to find a hero where this item combination works well on. at that point in the game though your money might be better spent on survivability over tricksy games. i don't prefer to buy crazy items on heroes that normally wouldn't get them. i like to work with what i've got (or should have).

dearjohn
02-25-2010, 01:41 PM
i really enjoy your guides and appreciate the effort you put into them blueseph. it's nice to see someone ruminating on the less direct ideas of game play while both writing it well and maintaining some sort of utility in their ideas. hope to see more!

DOnTAsk
02-25-2010, 02:01 PM
Another tip I like to throw in:
When you're juking in the forest with a hatchet, people expect you to dig into the trees to try to hide. A great way to be unpredictable is to cut a tree when you're in fog (since they can still see the tree go down) without actually going into the juke spot. You can bait them into chasing you into a juke that's not actually happening! This works even better if you have blink, since you can do it when you actually need to be running. Blink near forest into fog, chop a tree and continue running. You could escape high ms chasers this way by distracting them.

blueseph
02-25-2010, 05:32 PM
i really enjoy your guides and appreciate the effort you put into them blueseph. it's nice to see someone ruminating on the less direct ideas of game play while both writing it well and maintaining some sort of utility in their ideas. hope to see more!

http://i47.tinypic.com/zloubt.jpg

thank you for the kind words. i really appreciate them.

also fixed the gif

_Archangel_
02-26-2010, 04:50 PM
This is actually an excellent guide, better than the mindgames one I read on DotA forums long ago, but probably needs more examples and/or pictures. I won't hesitate to premium once you add more content. :)

blueseph
02-26-2010, 07:40 PM
the plan is to include a gif example of every item, with the exception of powersupply.

Whisi`Wang
02-27-2010, 08:20 AM
its because Witch slayer, blinks away using the portal key, that he is not stunned.

EspritFort
02-27-2010, 01:43 PM
You could add a section concerning possible foolarounds with Illusion-runes/Geometer's

blueseph
02-27-2010, 03:04 PM
its because Witch slayer, blinks away using the portal key, that he is not stunned.

yes. also updated for illusions.

mirger
03-01-2010, 02:27 PM
Great guide! Well written and visually attractive. Reminded me of a lot of things you don't think about on a regular basis, while giving me some new ideas too. Would love to see more .gifs and and images.

_Archangel_
03-01-2010, 06:44 PM
I was thinking of pictures/examples/videos (Doesn't have to be animated gif, YouTube video is fine) of defensive and offensive baiting, abusing fog of war, illusion baiting, etc; not just the item mindgames. (Come to think of it, you didn't mention Insanitarius in your item mindgames :D)

As for Logger's Hatchet/Runes of Blight juking, check out TN vs UOK (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25050309) in Alienware tournament; Swiftblade pulls a couple of amazing Logger's Hatchet jukes.

blueseph
03-01-2010, 09:50 PM
animated gifs flow better with the guide. the problem with gifs is that i like to limit them. the vindicator was one of the longer gifs i've made.

gifs are better than pictures, as you know exactly what to do and don't have to extrapolate much. i haven't forgotten about the guide. i just haven't had a real, solid amount of time i could dedicate to playing to maybe get some gifs out of it.

_Archangel_
03-02-2010, 12:07 AM
I see what you mean, but I definitely think you should use YouTube for the Logger's Hatchet jukes. It worked fine for the Hellbringer Power Supply bait example; in the replay I posted above there's a part where Swiftblade gets ganked by all five of the enemy heroes, starts spinning just at the right time to escape being disabled, walks around a section of forest, cuts a tree down and walks back through to his team who genocides them and Swiftblade survives.

blueseph
03-04-2010, 08:49 PM
and we're back. i have the swiftblade videos uploading, and i'm gonna start to play and get some more gifs.

hurray

Vulpes
03-04-2010, 09:12 PM
I just love your guides. Thanks you so much :)

Oh, and I just tested in in Practice Mode: Geometers Bane got a Disjoint.

blueseph
03-04-2010, 09:44 PM
uh... what happened to my guide? oh god please don't let this be permanent.

Well_Shebber
03-05-2010, 12:06 AM
uh... what happened to my guide? oh god please don't let this be permanent.

I agree- what happened? Where did all the gifs go?

Hope this gets some attention. Such a good guide.

_Archangel_
03-06-2010, 12:16 AM
Edit: Espritfort handled it, should be fine now... no idea how he did it @_@

blueseph
03-07-2010, 10:37 PM
hurray! uploaded my armadon gif (slow for some reason), and gonna upload my swiftblade video overnight. good fun.

HueHang
03-08-2010, 08:42 AM
very interesting guide,thanks :)

akitoes
03-10-2010, 04:50 PM
Bump for great justice !
(do you have match id of vindicator dodge ?)

OhBob
03-12-2010, 11:28 PM
What the hell? Don't suck my knowledge out of my brain and show everyone!

Nice guide =P

BombsO
03-14-2010, 12:31 AM
wow didn't know you could use cyclones like that

blueseph
03-16-2010, 03:03 AM
man i've uploaded this swiftblade video at least 6 times. it's never 100% uploaded.

ugh.

edit: at my dad's office. the armadon and vindi gifs load perfectly and play at a good speed, but the witch slayer gif is going at 100 miles an hour. does anyone else have that problem? also uploading two videos from here. hope they go through!

Walla
03-16-2010, 03:49 AM
two thumbs up

SomaMelo
03-16-2010, 01:40 PM
Its really wonderful reading this. It just makes me wanna play HoN much more! :).. Nice Mindgame topic man.. <3U! haha. See ya in Game.. SomaMelo.. 1500+PSR only :)

blueseph
03-16-2010, 07:49 PM
fkn finally. a big thank you to labcorp international for providing the bandwidth to upload these videos.

Vulpes
03-16-2010, 09:13 PM
Couldn't you use the New Pwn_ (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=83268) Video for the Swiftblade Juke? That looks way cooler.

blueseph
03-16-2010, 09:25 PM
i don't like the main pov. i prefer it to be in the "eyes of the player", so that anyone reading this guide can understand it a little better. seeing it in the eyes of the person being juked doesn't really teach anything. seeing how a player does it, in my opinion, does.

Vulpes
03-16-2010, 10:51 PM
That's why the New Video shows both perspectives.
The one you uploaded opens some questions*, which are answered by the "New Pwn_" video**

*why didnt he grip immediatly at the first time Swift popped out
**Swift was actually still fogged (pretty hard to see from his perspective imo)

blueseph
03-16-2010, 11:04 PM
unless i clicked the wrong video, you can barely see the swiftblade pov. it's in a tiny box on the bottom right side which makes it hard to tell what's going on from swiftblade's perspective.

Bombastik
03-17-2010, 03:12 PM
i really like the bit about baiting, most informative thing ive read on these forums. tyty

blueseph
03-19-2010, 12:01 AM
i'm missing five more clips. one i know i have somewhere, two of which can be the same if it comes down to it. i have an idea for what i want the bottle clip to be and i can play around until i get it. in the end i'd be missing one more. i also want to do a segment on timing, since i really liked that one guide that i read. hm.

Leetard179
03-20-2010, 07:14 AM
awesomeee

thanks for that.

premium worthy

FlamePhoenix
03-20-2010, 12:18 PM
I see by the movies that most of the enemies were newbs or lacked team play.
If hammer had helped electrician and not abandoned him they would have the kill. Had deadoowd understand that there was a Blade Master hiding in the trees (he saw that) perhaps it would be a good idea to not enter, and not chase an enemy alone. Simple examples, like this, with armadon as well. Had magebane used his ulti armadon would have died.
This tutorial seems pretty basic to me.
Yet, I agree that it can help some people. It is a good work, lots of examples.
If I could, I would vote it for premium.

Danielvutran
03-21-2010, 04:20 PM
man i've uploaded this swiftblade video at least 6 times. it's never 100% uploaded.

ugh.

edit: at my dad's office. the armadon and vindi gifs load perfectly and play at a good speed, but the witch slayer gif is going at 100 miles an hour. does anyone else have that problem? also uploading two videos from here. hope they go through!

yeah that witch slayer vid is going insanely fast lol

blueseph
03-21-2010, 08:13 PM
I see by the movies that most of the enemies were newbs or lacked team play.
If hammer had helped electrician and not abandoned him they would have the kill. Had deadoowd understand that there was a Blade Master hiding in the trees (he saw that) perhaps it would be a good idea to not enter, and not chase an enemy alone. Simple examples, like this, with armadon as well. Had magebane used his ulti armadon would have died.
This tutorial seems pretty basic to me.
Yet, I agree that it can help some people. It is a good work, lots of examples.
If I could, I would vote it for premium.

hammerstorm and electrician had been chasing swiftblade for a long time, and for all they knew he had totally juked them. they hadn't seen him for a good 5+ seconds. it was safe at that point for hammerstorm to assume swiftblade was gone. while it's true electrician had kept chasing, they were only level 4 and were missing a lot of xp for a failed gank.

deadwood was chasing a combo-able hellbringer. the just-rezzed devourer (not swiftblade, as you stated) started to port in out of deadwood's fov and by the time deadwood was able to falconpunch hellbringer, the channel had finished and devourer was able to assist. swiftblade did next to nothing compared to the devourer who ported in.

in the armadon video, magebane's ultimate was on cooldown.

there are a lot of little things that i can't entirely include in gifs and videos.

Kaushal
03-21-2010, 09:56 PM
Good guide. I enjoyed it.

blueseph
03-21-2010, 11:15 PM
okay. that's the last of the gifs i have. it'll be at least a week before i can get any more. enjoy for now folks!

FlamePhoenix
03-22-2010, 10:31 AM
hammerstorm and electrician had been chasing swiftblade for a long time, and for all they knew he had totally juked them. they hadn't seen him for a good 5+ seconds. it was safe at that point for hammerstorm to assume swiftblade was gone. while it's true electrician had kept chasing, they were only level 4 and were missing a lot of xp for a failed gank.If your mate keeps a chase, you help him. If 1 goes back, all go back. 5 secs without seeing an enemy is bad, but I never return to a lane without my mate. So far, I've never regretted this decision.



deadwood was chasing a combo-able hellbringer. the just-rezzed devourer (not swiftblade, as you stated)I explained myself badly. What I mean is that deadoowd decided to make a 2vs1 obvious attack. Even if he could succeed, the other member of the team could damage him enough for a team kill.
Personally I think deadoowd was a bit noob, I would never do such an attack, however I admit the teamwork on hellbringer's team is something I enjoyed seeing, It is something very beautiful and rare and I am happy you got that into a gif-that what makes pros what they are, team work :P
I also made a juke last game, I had 3 enemies chasing me and I was with hammerstorm. I remembered this tutorial and that saved my life. I managed to lose them in one of my best jukes -> I thank that to this tutorial.



in the armadon video, magebane's ultimate was on cooldown.That being the case, I remove my statement. That armadon guy was making a nice map control.

blueseph
03-22-2010, 11:22 AM
If your mate keeps a chase, you help him. If 1 goes back, all go back. 5 secs without seeing an enemy is bad, but I never return to a lane without my mate. So far, I've never regretted this decision.

I explained myself badly. What I mean is that deadoowd decided to make a 2vs1 obvious attack. Even if he could succeed, the other member of the team could damage him enough for a team kill.
Personally I think deadoowd was a bit noob, I would never do such an attack, however I admit the teamwork on hellbringer's team is something I enjoyed seeing, It is something very beautiful and rare and I am happy you got that into a gif-that what makes pros what they are, team work :P
I also made a juke last game, I had 3 enemies chasing me and I was with hammerstorm. I remembered this tutorial and that saved my life. I managed to lose them in one of my best jukes -> I thank that to this tutorial.

That being the case, I remove my statement. That armadon guy was making a nice map control.

he was missing lots of xp, swiftblades team was missing from the map, they hadn't seen him for a long time. it was not at all a bad decision to return to the lane.

in the deadwood gif, a teamfight had just finished. deadwood was dead when it started, so he ported in when it was just about over (evidenced by his high but not perfect HP). there was warbeast (no innate disable), swiftblade low on hp/mana, and a soon to be dead hellbringer. he could easily have combo'd hellbringer and gotten out because the only danger to him would have been auto-attacking heroes with no disables. and yes. that devourer saved my life and got us the kill. if i didn't already have a teleport gif, that would have been it. he was paying attention, had a tp ready, and saved my life. devourer is the sole reason i survived and deadwood died. dude is a good player.

i'm glad you enjoyed the guide. i hope to make more, but no promises :)

edit: suggesting this guide for premium! wish me luck!

FlamePhoenix
03-22-2010, 05:35 PM
that devourer saved my life and got us the kill. if i didn't already have a teleport gif, that would have been it. he was paying attention, had a tp ready, and saved my life. devourer is the sole reason i survived and deadwood died. dude is a good player.
You were hellbringer !? OMG, so you are also armadon and swift as WS as well? :p


edit: suggesting this guide for premium! wish me luck! You'll have my vote, that's fore sure!

blueseph
03-22-2010, 09:36 PM
i was not swiftblade nor was i soulstealer. everything else was me.

edit: premium! :D

wunjay
03-26-2010, 05:12 PM
Inspiring

Nekhekt
03-27-2010, 01:48 PM
Love this guide. Hope I can learn somethin from it.

LargeE
03-28-2010, 12:03 PM
Very nice guide :)

dearjohn
03-28-2010, 03:20 PM
congratulations on the premium blueseph

Solidsneak
03-28-2010, 09:35 PM
Good and fun read, enjoyed the video examples.

And the disgusting Armadon-triple.

blueseph
03-31-2010, 09:55 PM
this got a lot more popular than i thought it would! i'll be home from my vacation tomorrow so expect more good things. i'm almost done with the guide, but i'm still open to suggestions as to what to write on, and this includes my next guide as well (i probably won't be doing hero guides, though.)

JarJar
04-01-2010, 01:22 AM
Awesome peice of information. Loved it! ++

ElementUser
04-01-2010, 08:06 AM
34700027

9:33 to 9:58 (Replay Time) Mindgames! :). phe`V as Night Hound

Really good with Power Supply though, you should add that into your guide.

Sentura
04-03-2010, 01:02 AM
well written, sun tzu would be proud. the heart of the battle lies in determination and awareness.

Exalion
04-03-2010, 08:36 PM
Fantastic guide. Running backwards really throws the pubnubscrubs.

I've found the 'mindgames' I play with enemy trolls work too. Someone starts trashtalking on all talk, especially after you asked them to remake when someone left at the beginning of the map. Troll him back whenever an opportunity prevents himself, and every time you kill him he's likely to rage quit, bringing it to a 4v4.
Trolls got troll'd.

once again, good guide.

blueseph
04-03-2010, 09:56 PM
34700027

9:33 to 9:58 (Replay Time) Mindgames! :). phe`V as Night Hound

Really good with Power Supply though, you should add that into your guide.

oh my.

MajuiF
04-04-2010, 01:32 AM
I love the GIFs.
Great guide, gotta love playing mindgames. I wish more players would read this. I see too many people running in straight obvious lines towards their base. Makes Sniping with long-range spells (Pharaoh's missile, hook, devourer's hook or valk's arrow, to name a few) so easy.

5/5 :P
No wonder why it's Premium :P

Exalion
04-04-2010, 05:20 AM
good point traMe, the gifs are excellent, as are the short videos. Nothing worse than a guide which wants you to watch an entire game in low res video as an example...

resp
04-05-2010, 09:44 PM
really nice read. applaud

Delfofthebla
04-05-2010, 11:19 PM
Excellent guide man. I love mind games! :D

RamenPirate
04-06-2010, 06:36 AM
Indeed an excellent guide, i believe this could widen perspectives for many players. kudos blueseph

NoldorSword1
04-06-2010, 02:42 PM
just awesome

Myxfig
04-07-2010, 01:16 PM
I think it is a really nice strategy :D I'm a dota veteran but i stille learned something, so really good job. I didn't even get bored reading o0 The only flaw is that i don't consider those things mind games, but that's probably just me. ^_^10/10

TapWater1
04-10-2010, 07:58 PM
Hey nice guide! I would like to add my story about mindgames.

I got the illusion rune ( there can be some many mindgames with that one :O) so yeah i throwed one of my illusion out there they killed it, nothing special, so there was the real me and my illusion and they found me ( near the rune, they were 3) and i knew i had nothing to escape them except... i backed the illusion and didn't even moved my hero, they all went for the illusion, because they though i backed the real, so yeah, that was really funny i escaped them doing this :D.

So just a personal experience :D, Thanks for the guide btw !

ElementUser
04-10-2010, 08:55 PM
Popping Illusion Rune from Bottle when you're alone & when Swiftblade uses his ultimate will cause him to do less damage than he thought he would do, letting you potentially kill him right after :).

Void Talisman/Stormspirit on self would accomplish similar things.

p0w1
04-11-2010, 02:13 AM
Powersupply is, without a doubt, the most overpowered item in the game. No other item instantly heals you, instead requiring time to cure your wounds

Nice thread, i loved the storm spirit idea with tb.

oh and btw just being nit picky, but you said powersupply is the only item that instantly heals you, well there is mekanism (ergh cant remember the hon name).

FlamePhoenix
04-11-2010, 09:08 AM
but you said powersupply is the only item that instantly heals you
In deed, this information is wrong. Astrolabe (mekanism) also heals you instantly.
Please fix that section of the tutorial. There are 2 items that give you instant heal.

blueseph
04-11-2010, 10:16 AM
Hey nice guide! I would like to add my story about mindgames.

I got the illusion rune ( there can be some many mindgames with that one :O) so yeah i throwed one of my illusion out there they killed it, nothing special, so there was the real me and my illusion and they found me ( near the rune, they were 3) and i knew i had nothing to escape them except... i backed the illusion and didn't even moved my hero, they all went for the illusion, because they though i backed the real, so yeah, that was really funny i escaped them doing this .

So just a personal experience , Thanks for the guide btw !

if you have the replay of it and it looks good, i'd include it as a gif in the section on illusions.


Nice thread, i loved the storm spirit idea with tb.

oh and btw just being nit picky, but you said powersupply is the only item that instantly heals you, well there is mekanism (ergh cant remember the hon name).

whoops! updated to be slightly biased to my standpoint.

KADOONK
04-21-2010, 02:35 AM
very nice guide. the video examples are much more detailed and easier to get the gist of.

this guide has covered all the jukes and "mindgames" anyone could really think of.
<3

blueseph
04-21-2010, 11:04 AM
i guess you could say it was a doozie of a guide! oh ho ho ho

oh man i crack myself up sometimes.

thank you for the positive feedback!

Infigo
04-23-2010, 10:23 PM
may be the best guide i have ever seen. I learned from dying so much how to do this basically, but this improved it all.

`Smite
04-25-2010, 05:43 AM
Excellent guide. nuff said :cool:

Leoros
04-25-2010, 07:21 PM
This item has a disjoint built in, meaning if timed right you can avoid a killer stun, but it can also be used to dispel a deadly DoT.

How can you avoid a stun with Geometer's Bane? Also, does this mean Geometer's Bane can dispel Arachna's ult?

blueseph
04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
you can't dispel her arachna's ult, but you can disjoint it.

http://i42.tinypic.com/so8xhd.gif

http://i44.tinypic.com/2rp7dpt.gif

please excuse the quality of these gifs. they aren't going in the guide. just for show.

FlamePhoenix
04-28-2010, 04:58 PM
The gifs are so awesome ....
So, the ONLY way to avoid that is using the illusions WHILE the projectile (comet or spider) is flying in your direction right?
This way the projectile will hit a random illusion right?

This is just ... WoW, I always thought illusions were useless (besides escaping from swift and MQ ulti) until now :P

AusKipper
04-29-2010, 12:34 AM
You forgot the easiest mindgame of them all!! !! (being a retard and "accidentally" saying something in the "all" chat)

EG:

[Team]: Ok guys, ignore what i'm about to say next, lets gank witch then push bottom
[All]: Looks like 1/2 of us are low on mana and scouts nearly dead, lets go back to the fountain then push mid.

*your team mates
[All] kk

Or even better, when everyones full health and at the fountain and the enemy has a TB

[All] Scout stop farming with 100hp before someone sees you, if TB ulties your going to die even if you can outrun them

*Tb wastes ulti*

*you smile*

Didiuz
04-30-2010, 06:21 PM
Purely brilliant. Just fukin awesome

Vulpes
05-05-2010, 11:25 PM
So, the ONLY way to avoid that is using the illusions WHILE the projectile (comet or spider) is flying in your direction right?

Yes.


This way the projectile will hit a random illusion right?

No, it will hit nothing at all. The Comet will just vaporate, the Spider sit there and do nothing.


I always thought illusions were useless

You know that they do 33% of your Damage as well, essentialy being a 66% Damage increase?!

Rereading what you said, I think you got something wrong.
These aren't Illusions from a Illusion Rune, it's Geometer's Bane.

FlamePhoenix
05-06-2010, 06:40 AM
Rereading what you said, I think you got something wrong.
These aren't Illusions from a Illusion Rune, it's Geometer's Bane.
Still, you can use a bottle to store the illusions. Will it work as well ?

Zora
05-07-2010, 04:51 PM
This is a great post but sadly i cant utilize all of what has been said because of goddamn Aus latency. avg 250ms on a USW server ftw? Too many times have i tried to blink away from a gank, have the blink animation start then end up going nowhere >:(

WTB AUS SERVERS S2 THX.

blueseph
05-07-2010, 05:50 PM
:(. i wish i could lend you my connection, my friend.

ElementUser
05-07-2010, 07:06 PM
blueseph YOU'RE SLOWLY FADING AWAY! :(

(refers to grey name)

blueseph
05-07-2010, 07:14 PM
=[

I MAY BE GONE BUT MY WORDS WILL NEVER FADE

[/cheesy]

FlamePhoenix
05-08-2010, 09:18 AM
Any answer to my question please?

ObeseSheep
05-08-2010, 09:24 PM
Finaly someone does a guide on this. Nicely done. I played many games whos entire life centered on mindgames. SSBM, GunZ The Duel, etc. Gotta love juking. (lol magebane) =D

It`sOver9000
05-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Ah so it's totallnewbie's guide. I remember I thought it was really cool back, some time ago which is not to say I think it's bad now but calling it the "Zen of Mindgames" is a bid of a pomposity given what the guide actually explains. That is, it's mostly just a guide to basics, though that's where I learned those basics (juking, disjoints, and not sucking) plus the art of exploiting greedy noobs (ie. baiting). Now it's not that there's anything wrong with being a 'greedy noob', well except for the noob part. I am a firm believer that greed is good, however I don't think most pros follow that mantra. Well it's understandable, when there's stuff on the line you don't want to risk yourself to get a frag when you can just ignore the low health baiter and just get stand on his side of the creeps, essentially getting a hero kill's worth of free farm. Oh and remove the runes of blight/logger's hatchet part, tango juking got completely raped in HoN because you can see the trees falling in the fog.

blueseph
05-11-2010, 09:34 AM
Ah so it's totallnewbie's guide. I remember I thought it was really cool back, some time ago which is not to say I think it's bad now but calling it the "Zen of Mindgames" is a bid of a pomposity given what the guide actually explains. That is, it's mostly just a guide to basics, though that's where I learned those basics (juking, disjoints, and not sucking) plus the art of exploiting greedy noobs (ie. baiting). Now it's not that there's anything wrong with being a 'greedy noob', well except for the noob part. I am a firm believer that greed is good, however I don't think most pros follow that mantra. Well it's understandable, when there's stuff on the line you don't want to risk yourself to get a frag when you can just ignore the low health baiter and just get stand on his side of the creeps, essentially getting a hero kill's worth of free farm. Oh and remove the runes of blight/logger's hatchet part, tango juking got completely raped in HoN because you can see the trees falling in the fog.


a) read my guide and read his. entirely different. we cover different points. it's similar in the fact that we both cover the same subject, but our approach is very different.

b) regardless of being able to see trees fall in the fog, you mainly use runes/tango to be able to access places previously blocked off by trees. if knock down a tree to hide, you'd be found in dota and in hon.

blueseph
05-11-2010, 09:34 AM
Any answer to my question please?


bottled illusions do not have a natural disjoint. it must be a geometer's bane.

It`sOver9000
05-12-2010, 08:39 PM
a) read my guide and read his. entirely different. we cover different points. it's similar in the fact that we both cover the same subject, but our approach is very different.

b) regardless of being able to see trees fall in the fog, you mainly use runes/tango to be able to access places previously blocked off by trees. if knock down a tree to hide, you'd be found in dota and in hon.

a. No you cover the same stuff but in a different order and with different names. There's no shame in this as totallnewbie's guide was probably the best DotA guide I ever read.

b. No, the point of juking is to confuse your opponent. That's why most juke path have 'notches' so your opponent may run past you. Take for example the network above Hellbourne's outer tower. There is a tree you can eat to access the top right corner juke network, and even exit back out into the lane if you wish. But because you can see it in the fog, you're better off just running around in that juke network than telling your opponents exactly where you're headed.

blueseph
05-13-2010, 09:13 AM
or, you could knock down the tree and trick your opponents into chasing a ghost.

and no, please, like i said, re-read our guides. there are obvious similarities (we're writing on the same exact subject with limited resources), but our styles are different and we cover different topics. it's like saying all devourer guides are the same because they all cover skills and items.

Aftiagouras
05-13-2010, 03:01 PM
Didn't Witch Slayer (in the Unpredictability example) die from that last hit he got from the ranged creep?

Nice Guide btw

blueseph
05-13-2010, 05:07 PM
the creep did not kill witchslayer.

Sonix
06-07-2010, 05:40 AM
Very nice guide, I like it.

Just want to give another nice example with stormspirit usage which has saved my life a few times for sure:

You are very low on hp and an enemy Scout proceeds to ulti you. You see the target icon on top of your hero. If you are ready for it and you time it well enough you can stormspirit yourself right after he shoots it to avoid it and save your life :D

You can also do it right before he shoots but if Scout reacts fast he can cancel it in time. Or he might cancel it just so that you waste it. It's all part of mindgames :D

SilverStars
06-08-2010, 06:00 AM
Scout's ult would auto-cancel if you stormspirit yourself before the projectile fires.

I also have a problem with over-juking. I cut down a tree, walk into the trees, cut down some more trees, blink back, run the other direction straight into the enemy. Sometimes your opponents can be unpredictable too if you don't have vision of them.

babsa_90
06-13-2010, 01:50 AM
Don't forget about the potion of healing! i LOVE buying a health pot whenever i play arach. If you are about to die you just throw a webbed shot at the person and run into the fog and pop a health pot. When they chase in after you, you are already at half hp or more and it is you who is chasing them...

tl;dr the health pot has saved by hide countless times and is a very viable survival technique and mind **** (especially in pubs when people dont check your inv.)

Soul
06-13-2010, 05:43 AM
Great Zen song for a great Guide! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qx2lMaMsl8&annotation_id=annotation_679582&feature=iv

The power supply mind-games are priceless.

MANTOWN
06-23-2010, 02:24 AM
Excellent Guide, Really well written...
I would Refer all noobs to this article for instant assimilation.
your a Legend...

ElementUser
06-24-2010, 10:25 AM
Geometer's Bane now has a 0.1s Invulnerability upon activation.

Now you can finally do some stuff like completely evade Soulstealer/Shadow Fiend's ultimate when timed right :D

Fidel
06-24-2010, 10:32 AM
Geometer's Bane now has a 0.1s Invulnerability upon activation.

Now you can finally do some stuff like completely evade Soulstealer/Shadow Fiend's ultimate when timed right :D

you mean timed to the millisecond :p

Dragnmn
06-24-2010, 11:58 AM
And Pyro's ult, and Witch's ult, and Pyro's, Magmus' and Tort's stuns, and don't forget Codex.

Heaviside
06-26-2010, 04:04 AM
awesome guide pal! I would like to see some comments on my fave item, tablet of command, not a pro using it but its very fun to bring closer someone who thought was only coming to stun-and-run on a defensive maneuver, also to save allies or self from nukes or projectiles like valkyrie or chipper, to juke even more without a 3sec cooldown, and if I'm not wrong it disjoints as geometers, meaning you can evade pyro's ulti and so on, and alas, a perfect item to stop channeling spells like devourer's ulti on your ally, or help your chasing ally to get closer for that last hit on a fleeing enemy.
well you get the point! IMO, a very underrated item, yet a very powerful tool on a mindgamer!

c ya!

Belinox
07-08-2010, 04:17 PM
Sick guide...
Congratulations

Tommy_Piss
07-09-2010, 07:41 PM
ahahHHAAHAA! U MEAN I CAN CONFUSE, AND PLAY THE ENEMY? WOW! I CAN BE WIN EASY WITH TEAM

Angusiasty
07-17-2010, 04:44 PM
great guide! approved by :scou:

balcomb
10-23-2010, 06:56 AM
Now that you can't see trees being cut down, juking has become so fun ;D
My favorite mindgame hero is madman. That 4 second invi puts you and your chaser(s) under intense pressure. Once i was trapped in the outpost area on <50hp with three aoes after me, and three invis later got away ^.^

RogerDodger
10-23-2010, 07:16 AM
gifs would be nice if they weren't extremely slow

you need to make your image sequence 10 frames per second, because that's what gifs play at. If you have a 25 frames per second image sequence it's going to take 2.5 seconds for what should have been 1.

pwn_U_fast
11-01-2010, 08:42 PM
some good juking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuMvuJHaV6w&feature=related

AOoToO
11-11-2010, 02:22 PM
wheres the map that tell me places i can enter in trees???

Murre
11-11-2010, 04:57 PM
Thanks. This sure will make me a better player. If only I could give you a +rep or soemthing. :/

pwn_U_fast
11-12-2010, 04:11 PM
^^ The person who wrote this does not need + rep. lol.

Vantec
01-12-2011, 01:32 AM
This thread was stolen from the old dota-allstars.com

everything about his post is the same

Abalabalab
01-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Awesome post. I really enjoyed the read, it's cool-y laid out too.

I'd offer critique but I'm about to start a game ;)

KT


How do you make those videos in your post?, id like to make a similar guide, alot of people does not understand the full potential of their spells and model files.

I am possibly one of the best guys out there who makes some of the most incredible saves.. :legi:i once taunted 3 people with 5-8% hp as legi witch saved witch slayer.. then he gets to stun, and our :defi:'s wave hattricks em all.

:valk:I once made a 5sec stun purposely placed on the guy next to behe fissure in order to block out 5 people chasing down the 2 remaining allies on our team. I do not see this kind of play with spells alot, therefor id like to show you some heroes who have amazing potential if you do not run away to fountain every time you are low on hp and mana.

Flint is ofc the best hero to never back out with.. you can allmost always snipe a kill or 2 in the chaos when you are in the fog and your team is still fighting.

Also i am exceptionally skilled in early game harass with some heroes that you do not fear that much early game. Ive had a 6/0/1 score at the 10min mark as glacius in a 1600+ mmr game.

Also i can teach you the art of blocking other players.. many people do not see the beuty of pesti when he uses his fat body to block those enemy heroes. All heroes can block and even at times attack meanwhile. But more exceptionally all heroes can block chasing enemies, if your ally is low on HP and the enemy starts chasing and haven't got ghost marcher's.. you can make blocks that makes your m8's go omfg wtf was that? ive allready started eating because i thought id die for sure.

Once saved i guy that went afk for 20sec lategame because he was getting chased and he knew he was gonna die so he just clicked fountain and went afk, when he came back both me and himself was still alive.

I can make alot of fun special guides about things that only a relative small pool of the HoN community knows about. But please, if anyone knows how to post video example's i would really really like to know. Write back here, PM me.. whatever.. i will be filled with gratitude :)

This might be one of the best guides if not the best i have ever seen. Nice work Blueseph.

Kakoda
02-06-2011, 06:39 AM
Not bad but i find the juke with witch slayer funny was a good juke but he died 2 the archer creap in the end :D

NightUndead
02-07-2011, 12:07 PM
Perhaps update it with the fact that heroes blocking routes in fog no longer affects pathing? Not that it affects the quality of the guide a lot, but still, new players doesn't have to learn the hard way :)

blueseph
02-13-2011, 06:18 AM
This thread was stolen from the old dota-allstars.com

everything about his post is the same

i challenge you to post them side by side and compare both guides. it would be like comparing two guides on devourer and dismissing one because they cover the same subjects. it's not only about the topic at hand, but the quality of the work.


Not bad but i find the juke with witch slayer funny was a good juke but he died 2 the archer creap in the end :D

he lived! he died shortly after, but the creep didn't kill him. promise.



Perhaps update it with the fact that heroes blocking routes in fog no longer affects pathing? Not that it affects the quality of the guide a lot, but still, new players doesn't have to learn the hard way :)

i plan to do an update of this guide. i sadly haven't played pretty much at all in a few months, but i have a little bit of free time after the 14th, so expect to see an update to this and my other guide.

AntiDefiler
03-06-2011, 06:54 AM
awesome to read, added to favorits :)

yyr_
03-12-2011, 08:51 PM
Amazing guide, i shall be linking you in mine. Brilliant :D

Schm0ftie
03-13-2011, 07:56 AM
Abuse the fact that in obviously situations your enemy expect behaviour from you.
Grimms Crossing:
The Chronos lose vision on me and follow me to the teleporter, he expect that I use
the teleporter to escape, in fact I did speculate that he will think that and simply
stand there without using the teleporter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMwxK9J1oLg

Tweak
03-23-2011, 03:45 AM
A couple of segments of blueseph's mind games premium guide. Best advice i've gotten.




Moreso than any other item, any other technique, any other idea, the one single fundamental skill that's going to win you games is the ability to zoom out. Zoom out of just focusing on lasthits and denies and learning to incorporate everything in this guide into your gameplay. Learn to make a note of things. Does Defiler have enough mana to kill me? Can Pollywog Priest kill before I can kill Pestilence? Why did I just gain a Power Supply charge? Will anyone interfere negatively with my plan? The ability to have court vision and map awareness will impact your skill more than I could ever hope to teach. Force yourself to realize you're focusing way too much on last hitting and denying, and take a second to survey your surroundings. Take a quick enemy headcount. Check your positioning, mana and health on both sides, items, possible surprise ultimates. Being prepared will win you a fight much, much more than sheer luck will.


You aren't going to start off as a pro. You are going to mess up a juke, going back and forth for a second or two, giving your opponent an easy kill. You think you're being unpredictable when you're being very easy to read. If you keep being killed when you try to play mindgames, it's not luck that's sided against you, it's your inexperience. Don't be discouraged. Every good player started off being laughed at and ridiculed. With time comes more experience and an increased confidence in what you do. Always remember: good player knows when to press his luck and when to run with his tail between his legs


Be aggressive, but controlled. Be confident. Let your opponents know that you'll fight tooth and nail at any amount of HP. You aren't going to be pushed over, because when push comes to shove you're going to outplay them.

Every.
Single.
Time.

Flupke
03-25-2011, 08:38 AM
Awesome guide, really nice read and the end just makes me go like: WANNA PLAY NOW

Bwarned
03-29-2011, 09:47 AM
Very neat guide, I'm sure it'll come in handy :)

tommypye
06-11-2011, 07:40 PM
nice little guide with some quality tips

`SunTzu
07-23-2011, 09:45 PM
sick guide bro :D i enjoyed reading it.

Katieeee
10-05-2011, 09:49 PM
Awesome post with awesome examples! I quit HoN for a while and came back relatively recently and this reminded me of a lot of things I had forgotten (like using multiple Runes of Blight as an escape/juking tool).

Iskand
12-23-2011, 05:34 PM
Great guide. Thanks for posting.

blueseph
12-28-2011, 09:16 PM
due to youtube's recent monetization, i am currently living the good life off of the money i get from ads on my videos

http://i.imgur.com/MtH71.png

blueseph
06-08-2012, 06:48 AM
might do a little update to the thread. anything in particular i should touch up?

Clytemnestra
06-21-2012, 03:56 PM
might do a little update to the thread. anything in particular i should touch up?
hm a bit late,you should add videos rather than gifs.Anything that comes through your mind.Also the 1500's should read this.

phildared
10-05-2012, 01:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0kYK_t87vk&feature=player_detailpage#t=32s
Good example of juking.
Kind of making up for my mistakes with all that. hah

Best_Master
10-07-2012, 09:47 AM
Nice Guide... +1

Thank you very much :3