View Full Version : Sacraficial stone on madman
Saeth
02-17-2010, 01:42 PM
Thats good or bad ? People start to build it more and more. I am confused. Its always good to have mana and health, but there are much better items ?
TreeHorse
02-17-2010, 01:45 PM
It's viable... it works fine if he's being played as a semi-carry / ganker. Unlimited mana and tons of regen to constantly harass & tower dive.
Most of the time, however, building a quick Runed Axe for less gold will net you much more success as you can then farm like...well...a madman.
JanuaryJones
02-17-2010, 01:46 PM
ofc there are better items, but everyone knows: Madman gots mana problems!
So how to fix this:
Bottle
Runed Axe
Sacrificial stone
But in my opinion bottle is enough, so you can get a savage mace fast :P!
Like people have said, it's viable, especially with the new +hp regen buff; however, the Runed Axe and Steamboots build works much better since you have more farming ability, more damage (which you need) and the option to get a quick boost of str/int/agi.
I wouldnt be going sac stone.
My personal choice for when im playing a mana intensive game of madman is to get a bottle asap, and first item after boots is a glowstone. Glowstone gives you a nice boost to your mana and hp. It also can be used in a sac stone or frostwolf skull lategame and these two items cost under 2k.
The problem with going sac stone is that it costs about 5k to build and it really sets your damage items back abit. This means your team has to hold out longer before your really powerful in your teamfights.
Apostate
02-17-2010, 10:36 PM
I would never build it on him. While he is pretty mana intensive, he is more effective as a hard carry and he shouldn't NEED lots of mana. Later in the game when you come out into the open you'll have all the mana you need, anyways.
Lolololage
02-18-2010, 12:00 AM
ofc there are better items, but everyone knows: Madman gots mana problems!
So how to fix this:
Bottle
Runed Axe
Sacrificial stone
But in my opinion bottle is enough, so you can get a savage mace fast :P!
Dont forget BKB,silly without it.
kirbyruled
02-18-2010, 12:10 AM
It's viable... it works fine if he's being played as a semi-carry / ganker. Unlimited mana and tons of regen to constantly harass & tower dive.
Most of the time, however, building a quick Runed Axe for less gold will net you much more success as you can then farm like...well...a madman.
No it is not viable. Not one bit. This will get you up to speed: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=37043
Even though :madm: is but a shadow of his former yet balanced self, you should still build him the exact same way. Just expect mediocre results while :pupp: has over 100 damage @ 7 with only a HoD, multiple CC, auto-win lane presence, instagib ult, etc...
akitoes
02-18-2010, 07:23 AM
Dont get Sac Stone, silly with it.
TreeHorse
02-18-2010, 12:47 PM
No it is not viable. Not one bit. This will get you up to speed: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=37043
Even though :madm: is but a shadow of his former yet balanced self, you should still build him the exact same way. Just expect mediocre results while :pupp: has over 100 damage @ 7 with only a HoD, multiple CC, auto-win lane presence, instagib ult, etc...
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. It works fine in lower level pubs where self-sufficiency is key and a strong gank presence can win it for you.
I'm not saying it's the best or even a good option, but it definitely works.
DenyTheTruth
02-18-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. It works fine in lower level pubs where self-sufficiency is key and a strong gank presence can win it for you.
I'm not saying it's the best or even a good option, but it definitely works.
Change "it definitely works" to "it's viable/plausible". It won't always "work" and going for it and failing is a waste of a LOT of money.
With the amount of smurfs going around (uh huh, you know what I'm talking about) this strat is going to get shut down very quickly unless you're playing against scrub-a-dub-dubs.
akitoes
02-18-2010, 01:28 PM
Don't get Sac Stone instead of Runed Axe, it's like scratching silex instead of a match when you have both and need to light something up fast.
My first post was constructive and witty but treehorse deleted it and I'm too lazy to rewrite it. I was ranting on opportunity costs and made a horatio joke if you want to know what was in it.
DenyTheTruth
02-18-2010, 05:01 PM
Don't get Sac Stone instead of Runed Axe, it's like scratching silex instead of a match when you have both and need to light something up fast.
My first post was constructive and witty but treehorse deleted it and I'm too lazy to rewrite it. I was ranting on opportunity costs and made a horatio joke if you want to know what was in it.
Treehorse did not delete your post.
Stop trying to bait him.
fookn_prawn
02-18-2010, 08:03 PM
get hellflower, slightly less damage, more atk speed all the regen you ever need, and you can spam skills on creeps to farm, and you get a nice silence to shut down a target. Also the cheapest component is 900 so its really easy to get.
Damage, attack speed, regen and a silence for not so much gold??? easy as
awayish`
02-18-2010, 08:04 PM
it's terribad. if you need regen, get a sustainer. hellflower is bad too. i'd even get crit shards for crit while you crit than these 2 items. your ulti already gives attack speed, you need dmg and bkb.
Apostate
02-18-2010, 08:09 PM
Madman is a carry. Play him like one; just because he has skills which are useful for ganking does not qualify him as a ganker. He is much better off farming rather than trying to find hero kills.
Pandabro
02-18-2010, 09:50 PM
Madman is a carry. Play him like one; just because he has skills which are useful for ganking does not qualify him as a ganker. He is much better off farming rather than trying to find hero kills.
Ehh that's debatable. Even as a carry you should seize every opportunity to participate in ganks as possible.
Runed Axe and Hellflower is better imo
kirbyruled
02-18-2010, 09:58 PM
No no no lol. Don't teach new players bad builds because they "work", Codex on BH "works" too.
TreeHorse
02-19-2010, 12:19 AM
Kirby, ricing builds don't work for new players. Their teammates don't know how to turtle or babysit and they don't know how to farm.
Building Sacrificial Stone on Madman is a very poor choice.
The only thing this item does for Madman is fix his mana problem and make him a bit more of a tank. it does not help him farm, it does not synergize with his skills, and most importantly it does not help him to carry.
Runed axe is better because it allows him to farm, fixes the mana problem, and gives him great damage.
Thunderclaw is better because it allows him to farm, increases attack speed, and it's proc synergizes amazingly with his ult.
Shrunken head is better because it gives him survivability, damage, and the ability to stick to people as he tears them apart with his ult.
Savage mace is amazing for the same reason as the thunderclaw, only more single-target oriented.
Really, just don't get a Sac Stone on Madman. Your teammates will hate you for it because you won't be able to carry the late game, which is what a properly built Madman is amazing at doing.
LightRain
02-20-2010, 08:21 PM
Kirby, ricing builds don't work for new players. Their teammates don't know how to turtle or babysit and they don't know how to farm.
They have to learn somehow. "Runed Axe on Madman gives you good farming ability since you can quickly take out lane creeps and neutral creeps, and it gives you mana regen so you can constantly use stalk" is a good start.
Speaking of which, I wish they'd unnerf that.
Personally I don't like sac stone on madman because it doesn't go with his crit and ultimate. Runed axe does, hellflower sorta does. sacstone just gives raw hp and mana.
Pebbles
02-20-2010, 09:41 PM
Stay away.
kirbyruled
02-21-2010, 12:39 PM
They have to learn somehow. "Runed Axe on Madman gives you good farming ability since you can quickly take out lane creeps and neutral creeps, and it gives you mana regen so you can constantly use stalk" is a good start.
Speaking of which, I wish they'd unnerf that.
Personally I don't like sac stone on madman because it doesn't go with his crit and ultimate. Runed axe does, hellflower sorta does. sacstone just gives raw hp and mana.
This. Why teach them to play in a bad way so they can later go "wow that was bad" without gaining anything. It's not like they have to reach 150ck/30 minutes (he's a bit of a gank carry, so if you gank this would be pretty solid I think) to still play a farming Madman, they can just kinda think about getting the gold in front of them at their own limited pace, but at least they would get why they're doing it.
Edward
02-21-2010, 02:22 PM
it's good not great. frostwolf skull is the way to go.
Scripture1
02-21-2010, 04:20 PM
It really comes down to your teams line up and where you are laning.
I would only grab a Sacrificial Stone on Mad Man if you were laning mid and your team already has another solid carry.
Then you would be able to fill the semi-carry/ganker role and roam a lot.
Juke_Box
02-23-2010, 07:14 AM
ofc there are better items, but everyone knows: Madman gots mana problems!
Bottle ( not worth it unless your mid, loses worth in late game) bottling runes is 70%+ of the value of bottle!
Runed Axe ( worth it but should be rushed asap, by means of stacking)
why do people get this? is it the regen? no. Its the cleave for farming and late game teamfights
Sacrificial stone ( overkill for regen. you should not need this at all frankly)
fail on madman.
N> HP regen on madman? get whispering helm ( lifesteal) instead.
N> mana regen on madman? maybe go abyssal instead of whispering.
( ring of teacher early game)
are you solo farming mid? get a bottle, rune whore to refill and also to gank.
problem solved.
noodle0117
02-23-2010, 09:43 AM
sac stone is overkill for madman in mana regen.
bottle + powersupply is enough for 90% of situations.
runed axe if u can farm it fast enough, also works.
lifesteal for ur hp.