View Full Version : Building a decent team around War Beast
SpEks
02-13-2010, 04:21 AM
Let's assume the War Beast will be jungling in this game from level 1. Item build could either be the zoo War Beast with Whispering Helm and/or Puzzlebox + Shieldbreaker/Savage Mace + Shrunken or the usual build. You would obviously need two strong solos, so perhaps :plag: mid and :deme: bot, :warb: popping out every now and then to gang with Shaman healing him + his hellhounds to deal damage and obviously rooting the enemy?
Top lane could be any decent double stun lane. I would think :andr: (Her aura would be nice for War Beast late game) + :pest:/:magm:/:behe:/:hamm:.
Does it look like something you could sink your teeth into? :confused:
KopfHand
02-13-2010, 04:29 AM
Why you want DShaman go alone? He is such a nice babysitter (Plague is also nice babysitter)
Pyrate
02-13-2010, 04:46 AM
both Plague Rider and Dsham are pubbie solos. They are much more valuable to a team in a duel lane, where Plague denies 2 heroes xp as well as keeping the enemy on the back foot with his nuke, allowing his partner to rake up the last hits.
Dshams strong auto attack is excellent for harassing and having a heal means he and his lane mate can be more aggressive. His healing wave also keeps the enemy away from the creeps, as if they get to close a well timed cast can take more than half their hp away.
A lot of teams who go with a Jungler go with a melee mid. Pharoah is probably the best out of the bunch, it also gives you a great ganker and initiator. Going Melee mid also lets you have 3 melee 2 range, or a 3 range 2 melee, with a double range lane.
SpEks
02-13-2010, 07:48 AM
So if it was Pharaoh solo mid and War Beast in the bushes, what other 3 heroes would you have?
I wouldn't go Pharoah with Warbeast, their playstyles actually detract from one another in a fairly big way, as well as some serious countersynergies.
Any solo mid works, really. Something often forgotten is that ANY hero at all can solo mid. Why not Deadwood, his -armour based abilities would work well with Lycan, as well as the extra map control he'd generate because of his heinous ganking potential middle game allowing Lycan more farm.
Bottom lane I'd consider Torturer to be the optimum hero, his abilities synergise very well with Lycan in a passive way. Lycan kills towers and makes people back off, Torturer kills towers FAST when people are backed off. Lycan WILL soak a lot of aggro in teamfights, Torturer KILLS teams who don't focus him. Torturer screws with positioning and causes spreading, Lycan EATS people when they spread.
Whatever, I'm theorycrafting.
Winformula1
02-13-2010, 08:45 AM
Bottom lane I'd consider Torturer to be the optimum hero, his abilities synergise very well with Lycan in a passive way. Lycan kills towers and makes people back off, Torturer kills towers FAST when people are backed off. Lycan WILL soak a lot of aggro in teamfights, Torturer KILLS teams who don't focus him. Torturer screws with positioning and causes spreading, Lycan EATS people when they spread.
Whatever, I'm theorycrafting.
How does torturer create spreading? I mean he really pulls them all together with his agonizing bonds.
If you want to go push start then I would probably use slither for his amazing push and for his abillity to create ganks with a war beast out of the woods. If you want more of a lategame carry style based game then i would send puppet solo bot. His Cc and damage really synergizes well with warbeast imo.
akitoes
02-13-2010, 09:40 AM
both Plague Rider and Dsham are pubbie solos. They are much more valuable to a team in a duel lane, where Plague denies 2 heroes xp
what does pubbie mean ?
also,
2*(x/2) > x ?
Pubbie means public game where people are not as cordinated like an in-house game.
oh ok thx.
so that probably means the guy who wrote that post plays inhouse games on a regular basis ?
Winformula1
02-13-2010, 09:50 AM
what does pubbie mean ?
also,
2*(x/2) > x ?
Pubbie means public game where people are not as cordinated like an in-house game.
And plague riders skill Extinguish actually denies 100%xp that would. That makes them lose more exp if that was what you meant.
If you just meant that a solo lane and a double lane lose the same amount of xp from the skill deny then.... yeah.... :blac::blac::blac:
Kaelillidan
02-13-2010, 01:37 PM
Hellbringer, Glacius, Legionaire, Wretched Hag + War Beast.
KnowingCrow
02-14-2010, 01:48 AM
By basing your entire game and team on War Beast, you are asking the enemy team to ward and gank War Beast constantly.
Perhaps would work in pugs.
By basing your entire game and team on War Beast, you are asking the enemy team to ward and gank War Beast constantly.
Perhaps would work in pugs.
So you build a team that can abuse a team that tries this.
e.g. at least one roamer, good early/midgame heroes. e.g. Puppet, hag, succubus, deadwood. Or swap puppet for andro.
Vulpes
02-14-2010, 06:56 AM
If you are building a lineup, why exactly would you want to include a bad hero such as War Beast, plus as "core"?
Winformula1
02-14-2010, 09:23 PM
oh ok thx.
so that probably means the guy who wrote that post plays inhouse games on a regular basis ?
Well I don't know if he plays alot of inhouse games (my guess is that he doesn't), but it is common knowlege that when you play an inhouse game the skill level goes up alot.
The main reasons why you wouldn't want to send demented shaman or plauge rider solo mid are:
1. They are not very gear dependent and thus doesn't need as many creep kills as for instance arachna/puppet master/moon queen.
2. They have great lane presence and they are both good at protecting their lane partner therefore you might wanna lane them with heroes that would have a hard time farming in a solo lane. Examples of thoose heroes are magebane/chronos and panda.
The only reason you might want to have plague rider solo mid is because you want him to hit lvl 6 very fast because of his great gank potential, but usually send pharao or someone that also needs the creepkills and that benefits alot from gaining that early lvl 6 ulti.
If you want a team built around beast master I could sugest you getting heroes that lowers armour since beast master deals alot of physical damage. Try sending demented shaman with pestilence on top lane if legion and bot if hellbourne the heal from demented shaman will hurt alot when you send your hellhounds to attack and the armour reduction will make you do an insane amount of damage.
Final note: when you are jungeling dont stay in woods for 30min and then get into teamfights. Gank from time to time helping your teammate that is solo against a double lane.
Good luck and tell me how it went!
Shwin
02-15-2010, 03:42 AM
I really wouldn't recommend "building a team around" a hero like War Beast. Just my 2 cents.
Tripwyr
02-15-2010, 12:36 PM
If your plan is to build a team around Warbeast, I would personally go with Demented Shaman bot, Soulstealer mid, and Magmus/Pyro top.
Soulstealer can rock the early game allowing Warbeast to farm, Magmus and Pyro are an extremely strong lane who both double as solid turtlers late game. Demented Shaman is the strongest laning partner capable of soloing. Make sure you gank bottom lane plenty for extra gold and to help Demented maintain lane dominance.
canikizu
02-15-2010, 02:25 PM
Go nymphora to get him heal and mana regen, saving him money and time to creep.
Let him and nymphora go jungle lane. Warbeast can jungle so fast that he will be able to handle jungle and lane at the same time.
And for other heroes, I think magnus, soulreaper, and some tank hero like arcursed or zeyphyr will be good. Pebble for mid is a good choice too.
Proxymate
02-15-2010, 03:08 PM
Pubbash:
Bloodhunter mid
Hellbringer long lane
Pyro/Magmus short lane
fatrend1
02-15-2010, 03:25 PM
Since Warbeast needs farm and your team needs to 4v5 till he gets farmed you need strong counter-push oriented heroes.
I would think a line up like:
Plague Rider solo bot(legion)
Defiler Mid
Slither/Engineer+Magmus/Behemoth Top
This way you get 4 powerful ultis that can be used for offense or defence and have powerful synergy. All of their ults are really scary for the opposing team if they decide to try and push your tower. Plague can deny two heroes at bottom alot of xp ecspecially with warbeast pulling. Defiler is a strong mid and can get early tower kills to help farm up Warbeast. Slither or Engineer are both really good at ganking and defending or attacking towers (slither wards engi ult). Magmus or Behemoth give solid initiation and counter initiation.
iForkyou
02-15-2010, 03:44 PM
You should actually try to get jereziah. Repel turn warbeast into god.
Building entirely around Warbeast:
(Legion)
:warb: - Jungle
:jera: - Top
:witc: - Top
:hell: - Bot solo
:phar: - Mid solo
That gives a nice mid solo as well as ranged in each lane. You'd push towers quickly with Warbeasts beasts and Malphas. Warbeast would become unstoppable when repelled and theres enough slow/stun from the surrounding heroes to work.
So when you say build a team around War Beast, essentially what you want to do is create three strong lanes using four players that will be able to hold their own and essentially 4v5 the opposing team until mid-game. After that, you want a team that can take advantage of War Beast's ability to turn into a screaming cruise missile. Here's my take: (Reverse for Hellborne)
:warb: Jungle bottom (Betchya didn't see that coming!)
:deme: Bottom - Babysitting your carry and securing bottom lane
:dark: Bottom - Carrying. I choose DL as the carry because her ultimate takes FULL advantage of War Beast's ult. You isolate players, allowing War Beast to rush in and make it a 4v5 or 3v5 very quickly.
:defi: Top - One of the best side-solo heroes available in my opinion. Build her as a tank and use her to push. Make the opposing team react to her lane presence, taking pressure off of other lanes.
:witc: Mid - Can be a difficult lane depending on who he's up against, but he's there because he has great ganking abilities and strong late-game control for a team which has minimal stuns.
With this team you can push mid-game if War Beast rushes puzzlebox and go for the early win, or you can build War Beast as mid-game carry and gank hard. This will open up the late game for Dark Lady who will dominate if the game goes beyond War Beast's carrying ability.
kitchen
02-15-2010, 04:25 PM
And plague riders skill Extinguish actually denies 100%xp that would. That makes them lose more exp if that was what you meant.
It denies the same amount of exp against a solo as it does against a dual lane.
SpEks
02-16-2010, 03:26 PM
Thanks for all the replies and strategies, I'll be sure to try them out when I get the chance.
I was looking at the use of War Beast in this competitive match (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=77957,). What are your thoughts on it? I think people need to branch out a little in hero choices, War Beast can't be that bad, he was even used for a brief stint in competitive DotA. (Did the armour nerf really hurt him and his wolves that bad? I forget what else they nerfed on him in DotA after they reworked him into the current version. :confused:)
arieLOL
02-16-2010, 03:34 PM
war beast peaks earlier than most heroes youd want a team that could win in 25-30 min
Jungle lane: Warbeast + slither, WB can effectively clear the jungle when he is lvl 3, slither can play defensively enough to solo lane. He should be maxing wards + toxicity.
Mid: Defiler, want her for her ult to push thru towers.
Non Jungle: Nymphora + Magmus Nymph will be keeping peopel alive during pushes, Magmus is just a good stunner for initiating and the like.
Pretty much as soon as your side lanes are 6 (if not earlier) WB should kongor and then start pushing every defiler ult. Nymph can use TP to grab some ganks if they took a turtle team and you need one before pushing. Slither can push towers by himself and I'd almost have him pushing a seperate lane to make them choose if / how they want to split up to defend.
SpEks
02-17-2010, 10:30 AM
What do you people get when you jungle at level 1 with War Beast? I once saw one get x5 mana potions + a health potion, I've seen one get Logger's Hatchet + :GuardianRing: and 2 mana potions and then I've seen some get 2x mana potions and a full Ring of the Teacher...
What do you people get when you jungle at level 1 with War Beast? I once saw one get x5 mana potions + a health potion, I've seen one get Logger's Hatchet + :GuardianRing: and 2 mana potions and then I've seen some get 2x mana potions and a full Ring of the Teacher...
I generally don't play him, but if I remember from DotA years playing Lycan.. you'll want a Logger's hatchet.. Two mana pots and a Guardian Ring?
You can then build Ring of the Teacher asap for + armour on your wolves and more regen, and you should be set.
Will play a practise now and tell you for sure though :P
Magnets1
02-17-2010, 10:43 AM
I wouldn't really build a team around warbeast, he can be situational because he has no disable/slow, but is great against squishy heroes.
If you are going to do it anyway, then just get 3 decent ranged/stunner heroes that can also push/resist pushes well. Include 2 support/int heroes that will buy wards/courier.
Nothing worse than the solo guy losing his tower fast and the jungle getting locked down.
Right. Just checked, you want to get a Buckler:IronBuckler:, Logger's Hatchet:LoggersHatchet: and 2x Mana potions :ManaPotion:. You'll want to kill the small creep camp first, and make sure you pull them out of their camp a bit before killing so you get to kill the 1:00 minute spawn as well.
If you don't have a monkey/flying monkey courier from your team, its going to be harder, just make sure the first time you go back to the fountain you buy one as it improves your experience gain greatly.
:+1luck:
MotleyFOOL
02-17-2010, 03:20 PM
I agree with DSham bottom next to Warbeast in the jungle. He's not only helpful to initiate ganks with his entangle, but he can also save Warbeast's ass if bottom lane sneaks into the jungle to gank.
I'd follow up with a double stun up top and a good roamer at center. Build a push team imo -- Warbeast, DSham, polly up top with someone else, etc, gank early and often, then push early into the game after everyone gets a bit of farm.
http://honcast.com/2010/02/gr-tournament-2-season-1-semi-finals-dy-vs-5/
Theres a replay of Warbeast in action from Clan DY against Clan 5.
AngryDad
02-18-2010, 06:32 AM
Warbeast
Plague
SS mid
top Electrician/WS
deweylewie
02-18-2010, 07:46 AM
Last time I played with a warbeast was:
:deme::arac::keep::ophe::warb:
I went to the enemy jungle as Ophelia, ganked top and middle, War Beast went solo bottom. Tree ult amazing for letting wb do his thing, plenty of auras from minos/arachna (andro may have been better), WB buffing ophelia's creeps, abyssal skull buffing ophelia too. I don't remember using a wolf commander but it would be great.
Nice slows from arachna and -armour from shaman. Has 2 healers on the team too. The only problem if if Oph gets bullied out of the enemy jungle, luckily it didnt happen. We also lost bottom tower fast because beast was alone and went to the jungle a lot.
Replay http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=26476468
How does torturer create spreading? I mean he really pulls them all together with his agonizing bonds.
If you want to go push start then I would probably use slither for his amazing push and for his abillity to create ganks with a war beast out of the woods. If you want more of a lategame carry style based game then i would send puppet solo bot. His Cc and damage really synergizes well with warbeast imo.
Because when torturer pops his stabby knives and his ult then runs into the middle of the enemy team, you'll watch them skiddaddle in every direction to get away from him.
SpEks
02-21-2010, 07:28 AM
Last time I played with a warbeast was:
:deme::arac::keep::ophe::warb:
I went to the enemy jungle as Ophelia, ganked top and middle, War Beast went solo bottom. Tree ult amazing for letting wb do his thing, plenty of auras from minos/arachna (andro may have been better), WB buffing ophelia's creeps, abyssal skull buffing ophelia too. I don't remember using a wolf commander but it would be great.
Nice slows from arachna and -armour from shaman. Has 2 healers on the team too. The only problem if if Oph gets bullied out of the enemy jungle, luckily it didnt happen. We also lost bottom tower fast because beast was alone and went to the jungle a lot.
Replay http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=26476468
Thanks for the posting the replay(finally got round to watching it), though the enemy team did give up pretty early. Ophelia and War Beast do seem to work together pretty well, the problem is sorting out lanes, as in decent and even games a War Beast in a lane will be bullied very badly unless he has a very good baby sitter with him.
Nice job playing Ophelia and carrying the bullied War Beast. :) Strange he didn't buy :Shieldbreaker: but rather :HackNSlash:.
Thanks for the posting the replay(finally got round to watching it), though the enemy team did give up pretty early. Ophelia and War Beast do seem to work together pretty well, the problem is sorting out lanes, as in decent and even games a War Beast in a lane will be bullied very badly unless he has a very good baby sitter with him.
Nice job playing Ophelia and carrying the bullied War Beast. :) Strange he didn't buy :Shieldbreaker: but rather :HackNSlash:.
:HackNSlash: Would be the old DotA pubbers build where you maximize his move speed and attack speed so the switch between ultimate and normal form is nearly nothing.
Shieldbreaker is generally a much better item especially if you're going for a creep war (Ophelia/Warbeast is definitely a force to be reckoned with). Also remember that Warbeasts ultimate gives all his summons 522 movespeed, thats including any creeps taken over by :WhisperingHelm:
Edward
02-21-2010, 02:26 PM
do it like the top teams are doing with scout. pick a lot of strong heroes, that could win a 4v5 anyways.
the only strategy I can see warbeast fitting in is a backdoor strategy, which is very risky.
meaning you'd have a pushing/teambattle focused team (say :slit::souls::defi::tort:) that would go push bot lane, enemy team would engage, warbeast would backdoor top.
i've seen it happeen, it's pretty cool.
SpEks
02-22-2010, 04:54 AM
Quick question: Is it ever a good idea to get Power Supply on War Beast? I've seen some get it and was wondering...
Ympulse
02-22-2010, 11:04 AM
power supply is useful on anyone, but not worth the early gold on jungle carries like Warbeast, imo.
Juke_Box
02-23-2010, 07:06 AM
In pro matchups you commonly see Warbeast come out of jungle with soulstealer and take towers in early mid-game.
Soulstealer destroys creep waves with demon hand, and warbeast tanks tower and buffs self + pets + stealer. towers go down like paper. rinse and repeat.
regarding powersupply, its overkill for warbeast. keep it as mana battery. the recipe cost doesnt make the upgrade worth it. if your jungling mana battery does more than enough for you since it can accumulate charges from jungle creep spells.
Vulpes
02-23-2010, 12:58 PM
if your jungling mana battery does more than enough for you since it can accumulate charges from jungle creep spells.
Not everything that was true in DotA is true in HoN.
akitoes
02-23-2010, 02:14 PM
In pro matchups you commonly see Warbeast come out of jungle with soulstealer and take towers in early mid-game.
Soulstealer destroys creep waves with demon hand, and warbeast tanks tower and buffs self + pets + stealer. towers go down like paper. rinse and repeat.
regarding powersupply, its overkill for warbeast. keep it as mana battery. the recipe cost doesnt make the upgrade worth it. if your jungling mana battery does more than enough for you since it can accumulate charges from jungle creep spells.
i'm interested in such a replay