[Map] Elemental Tower Defence

[Severon]

Hey everyone, I've recently had the notion to start making a copy of Elemental TD from WC3. Now this is going to be a long process and I?m going to need feedback(hence this post) So feel free to give me suggestions and what not, I'll add screen shots and information as I go.


If you're interested I could use some molders to create models for towers.

Game Info

Building Towers:
Buy Tower from shop
Item Tower = x amount of gold
Item Tower has 1 charge(like mana potion)
Item Tower ability = to Engineer's turret ability
Item tower radius = to tree radius on engineer's turret radius to trees(prevents stacking(I think), I know you wanted to)

Element Towers:
After killing an Elemental boss it drops an element shop item of the type of boss killed equal to level of boss killed. Place the item in the shop area and you will be able to buy that element.

Upgrading:
Upgrading is like courier upgrade. You have to buy the recipe and place it on tower to upgrade or combine in inventory before placing.

Element mixing:
Will be handled just like the recipes in game. Lvl 3 Element x + lvl 3 element X = Mixed element lvl 1. (I looking at at a way to implement this to a tower already on the ground, I believe it will work but haven't tried it. Giving tower and upgrade recipe to the tower on ground and then upgrading like a courier)

Armor System:
Not sure how this will be seen in game, but basically
Hero= Water
Melee=Fire
Range= Earth
Siege= Nature
Structure=Light
Tower=Dark
Neutral=Composite

Screen Shots!:P(just of terrain in the editor)
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv91/Severon/savage22010-02-1616-22-14-67.jpghttp://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv91/Severon/savage22010-02-1616-21-16-60.jpghttp://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv91/Severon/savage22010-02-1616-22-28-81.jpg
These are a little old seeing how I had to make it bigger, but its still exactly how it looks


umm that covers it for now, I'll try to keep this fairly updated with my progress(post below)


You should play as Engineer, forgot to take other heroes out.....XD

How to use this map:
First thing you need to do is download it(here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uhiwwzyjmoj)).
Once you finished downloading just put the file you have into your HoN's map directory


Things you might want to know: (This will get updated with feed back)
Shops kill the trees to the top right of map and replace them with well the shop.
There is only one wave boss per element, currently having problems implementing a three boss system:S
Waves only go up to 35 and there is no counter atm, though expect one shortly(last wave is moon queen for the moment)
"b" is the hotkey to open up the shop and accessories is the Composite shop.
You buy bosses for the elements at relic shop

[Severon]

Change Log:


Added the remaining waves(up to 61)
*Note:Once the waves reach a certain hp they look like they don't have the full health. They do, but the game won't display this for some reason, but believe me they are still hard to kill.
Fixed a few cosmetic bugs
Added Arrow Tower Elements


Okay Progress report
Right now all I"m working on is getting the entities ready for the map:
Last Change:3/2/10

I currently have

All Water Towers
All Light Towers
All Darkness Towers
All Fire Towers
All Earth Towers
All Nature Towers
Lives
Arrow Towers
Wave Announcer System (credit goes to cartoonic)
All Waves (No abilities are in the game yet)
Creep Pathing (though had an error when I tried to teleport back to start)
Terrain(Turned out much better than I imagined, but is still plain with few details, though I think I got the dimensions right)

I currently don't have
Alot of text reading and changes :'(
Element Mixes
advanced composite building and cannons

[Rawrcake]

Armor System:
Have a couple ideas for this, but not sure if either will work, and one is kinda sloppy.
Idea 1) Apply buff to runner per element type and apply another buff per element on each tower. Now when buff type 'x' attacks buff type 'y' it amplifies damage by 'z%'
So if water tower attacks a runner with fire buff the runner takes z% more damage from that tower.
Idea 2)create a global aura per level that grants x% damage to towers of type 'y'.
Example: Level 5 - Armor Type - Fire
Great a global aura giving water towers x% more damage.
Idea one will work just fine if you use a condition test to check for a state on the runner and amplify/reduce damage accordingly. It may vary slightly depending on how you're planning to set up the towers. As soon as the SDK is released it should easen it up by quite a bit. Good luck with your project.

[Severon]

Alright thanks for the information that was the one I was going to try and fall back on idea 2 after I had exhausted my limited knowledge

[BlacRyu]

Armor types for HoN are listed in the file resources0.s2z\base.gamemechanics

Not sure if you want to mess around with that, but I thought I'd let you know in case you want to take a look.

ex:


<combattypes list="Hero,Melee,Ranged,Siege,Structure,Tower,Neutral">
<combattable name="Hero">
<attackmultiplier target="Hero" value="1.0"/>
<attackmultiplier target="Melee" value="1.0"/>
<attackmultiplier target="Ranged" value="1.0"/>
<attackmultiplier target="Siege" value="0.5"/>
<attackmultiplier target="Structure" value="0.5"/>
<attackmultiplier target="Tower" value="0.5"/>
<attackmultiplier target="Neutral" value="1.00"/>

[Isin]

I could ask Karawasa if he'd allow me to send you the terrain for the map (since I made it), if that would be helpful to you.

[Severon]

Edit:BlacRyu actually that helps a lot thanks Might not have to mess with buffs 7 armor types is what I needed, but I didn't think to count neutral as an armor type(I wrote the op while on campus at my college and couldn't look up the different armor types manually so just went with with the assumption that there wasn't 7


By all means Isin do so, also if he would rather take over this project I will let him do so, I'm not trying to steal credit and planned to credit the makers of Elemental TD upon completion, I was just planning to make a tower defense that you could play solo and this one came to mind

[Yuichi]

This is great idea and if you can get the original creators approval/help with this it would be even better. :)
Also couldnt you just make custom base.gamemechanics mechanics file and let the map use that one?
Im asking because Im curious and dont know if you can do that.

[____`_`____]

awesome, please keep it up :)

[Severon]

This is great idea and if you can get the original creators approval/help with this it would be even better. :)
Also couldnt you just make custom base.gamemechanics mechanics file and let the map use that one?
Im asking because Im curious and dont know if you can do that.

I assume you could, but I'm not as good at this type of stuff as some people are and I'm kinda learning as I go, and asking alot of questions on IRC, Generally I understand how to change and edit values create skills, units, all that good stuff, but its more of the game mechanics that I haven't really tried to edit yet.

[Electrician]

Just make the shop aura cover the entire map
give towers infinite range to place them
allow certain buff items on towers in combination with upgrading them? :P

[Severon]

Comments are in Quote and yellow:


Just make the shop aura cover the entire map That was the plan well atleast for the "composite" shop the element shops would only cover the players playing field
give towers infinite range to place them Eh i might do this might not, if i don't it will be for nostalgia just because the builder in wc3 had to move:P
allow certain buff items on towers in combination with upgrading them? :P What I meant by courier type upgrade,unless i misunderstand you here

[AngryWeasel]

Cant' wait for this to be out gotta love TD :D

[Roozi]

Can you please post the version you currently have, because i really want to try it.

[Severon]

Unfortunately I don't have one to give atm, I just started this project well when I posted this, and the main reason for that is I figured if I put into writting what I was going to do and get it out to people I would have more motivation to finish when things started going wrong, and just to kinda help formulate everything in my mind and keep people up to date, but since you asked I will get working on a release now, though keep in mind it will be very very very very rough and incomplete. and things like armor was planned to be done once I got all the tower files created and shops and creep waves created.
Anyway I hate to give a release date and then have to keep moving it back, so I'll just say I'm working on one and I will get it out as soon as I can Roozi.

[Roozi]

Awesome...Thanks

[Severon]

Screen shots of the terrain i just completed

[Severon]

Well good news and bad news I ran a test last night and half the things I wanted to work didn't work, but I was able to actually load the map with correct starting gold and see some of my items, though they didn't work... I have this weekend off so Friday night and most of Saturday I will be working on it so hopefully I will have some significant progress by Sunday.

[Yurixy]

I think is better to wait for the editor to come. Its about 100x the effort to make without an editor. But TD ROX! Let the Tower Defense beginnnn!!!

[knallfrosch]

Tower defense maps with 2 tower models currently in-game.

Yeah...

[BlacRyu]

Tower defense maps with 2 tower models currently in-game.

Yeah...
Most TD's in Wc3 used units as towers.

[knallfrosch]

Most TD's in Wc3 used units as towers.
Lazy Creators :(

[Severon]

Most TD's in Wc3 used units as towers. This is what I planned on doing, though I've been asking around for people to make models and no luck so far. BlacRyu if you want to make something that looks like one of the elements used I'll be glad to receive it:)


I think is better to wait for the editor to come. Its about 100x the effort to make without an editor. But TD ROX! Let the Tower Defense beginnnn!!!
I agree the editor would make things easier, but I enjoy messing around with this type of stuff, so I'm doing it for the enjoyment and not for the ease of doing it. if that makes sense.

[Gelash]

Sounds very good.

Keep up the work!

[SkryZr]

I love it already! pls finish it!

[TheReaper]

I can model a couple of towers for you no problem. What I do need to know is how you want them.

I used 3dsMax so is it ok if I just give you the .obj? I can also give you the .max file and all the textures/materials and maybe you can export it yourself?

Feel free to drop me a pm, just remember that I have no idea how to import a model in HoN, or the Sav2 editor for that matter.

EDIT: read some stuff around these here parts, and found out how S2 does their texturing/normal mapping/etc. Still I do not own max 8, so you will have to import the model in the game yourself. Will get on it probably this week-end after I install Max at home as well(currently at work).

[Severon]

I can model a couple of towers for you no problem. What I do need to know is how you want them.

I used 3dsMax so is it ok if I just give you the .obj? I can also give you the .max file and all the textures/materials and maybe you can export it yourself?

Feel free to drop me a pm, just remember that I have no idea how to import a model in HoN, or the Sav2 editor for that matter.

EDIT: read some stuff around these here parts, and found out how S2 does their texturing/normal mapping/etc. Still I do not own max 8, so you will have to import the model in the game yourself. Will get on it probably this week-end after I install Max at home as well(currently at work).
Uhh I yeah I"ve been talking around and no one says they do models so idk if it is possible to import atm, but then again I have no idea how to go about it or what the file types are, but I do know how to use the files once I have them. I've talked to some of the texture people the blacRyu and they say the just mess with effects and textures, so they couldn't make me custom models, but said they could change textures of already existing units to look different. Those work for me as well seeing as I don't want to just use random models that look close to what I had in mind. I'll go ahead and contact you via PM to see what we can get going and give ideas and what not. thanks for your interest/help:)

[Yuichi]

I could try doing some tower models when I have time.
(Might not be so soon since Ive been pretty busy with work.)
Could use Wc3 towers as reference which would make my job little easier.
I imagine most people would like it if the towers resembled the Wc3 ones.

[Severon]

I imagine your right, and I planned on keeping the names the same though the models I wasn't going to be picky about unless they matched the name and the elements combined into them in some why.

[TheReaper]

First WIP of a Light tower:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/TheReaperr/light1.jpg


It is still rudimentary as it has only been a 20-30 minute job at it. I'm getting used to working from my home computer which is currently on the floor since i recently moved. So yea, it's hard to model properly :))

Still, criticism welcomed.

[Darxio]

Wouldn't it be easy to import some of the Savage 2 towers to save some time?

You got Strata Spire, Static Spire, Chlorophilic Spire, Arrow Tower, Siege Tower, and Shield Tower. That's 6 towers right there.

[Yuichi]

Wouldn't it be easy to import some of the Savage 2 towers to save some time?

You got Strata Spire, Static Spire, Chlorophilic Spire, Arrow Tower, Siege Tower, and Shield Tower. That's 6 towers right there.
Good Idea and I think that they would fit pretty well in HoN.
They might be a bit too high on the polygon count especially for a TD map.
TD maps are know for using lots of resources because there can be lost of different things happening at the same time.

[BrockSamson]

Are the map editing tools available? I thought they were not until release...

If they are why have there not been more custom mods yet?

[TheReaper]

Are the map editing tools available? I thought they were not until release...

If they are why have their not been more custom mods yet?


you can do "some" modding with the Sav2 editor.

As for those towers that isn't such a bad idea, they would have to be edited to lower their polycount, but that shouldn't be such a tough job. But that should be done regardless, you don't want 100 towers to make you lag.

Made an idle video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85cWIFcmkQk

This could be the tower attack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ooB-WFxkA

Ignore the speed of the animation

[Oloko]

Are the map editing tools available? I thought they were not until release...

If they are why have there not been more custom mods yet?

No official map editor tool are available for now, I made my own version of the editor that is available in the ressource section if you want, but its a lot of work to get it working.

[Severon]

I think it looks good for a rough copy reaper:)

[BlacRyu]

There are 4 model detail levels for each building/unit in savage 2

[____`_`____]

Tower defense maps with 2 tower models currently in-game.

Yeah...

a tower doesn't necessarily means "tower". Anything can be used as one. From Hero models to trees, the computer doesn't care about form, I mean we don't have to have 60 models of different towers just to have them looking like some kind of towers. I think mixed Towers/Hero models worked great in W3. Off course, having many tower models would always be a good thing, but you can say this about any models, trees for example... There are infinite kinds of trees... Let's not limit ourselves to traditional thinking :)

[Severon]

Progress Report:

Well I have three Elements of Tower Working and in map, this includes:
The Towers themselves
Tower Item
Item Upgrade(This is how you upgrade towers)

I am almost done working out bugs on the spawn for the creeps, I only have 3 waves currently done, but once I get the bugs out of the spawn I'll get more in.
I am also currently working on Blocking the Path so That you can't place a tower there.
I currently do not have the elements set up so that you have to kill a boss first. This is because I do not have a system set up to do this Yet and Currently working on ideas(Most likely will be a separate shop that sells these, but I'm not sure how to make it available only every 5 levels, so default mode might be random mode in which case disregard this whole statement)


As far as A working map is concerned....I'm trying right now the biggest block to that goal is the spawn system.

[Day7]

Tower defense maps with 2 tower models currently in-game.

Yeah...
find theme with new skins of tower, include that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSku8F8kQY&feature=related

p.s. Wanna that tower in map xD

[William]

First WIP of a Light tower:




It is still rudimentary as it has only been a 20-30 minute job at it. I'm getting used to working from my home computer which is currently on the floor since i recently moved. So yea, it's hard to model properly :))

Still, criticism welcomed.
It looks as a light tower, and the important part is that it represents what it's supposed to. Great job, elemental TD was my favorite TD in WC3! :D

[Severon]

find theme with new skins of tower, include that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSku8F8kQY&feature=related

p.s. Wanna that tower in map xD

Lol I will see what I can do, it reminds me of a Light and Dark combo the "Trickery" Tower so good bet as to it will be in there if Ryu doesn't mind if I use it.


It looks as a light tower, and the important part is that it represents what it's supposed to. Great job, elemental TD was my favorite TD in WC3! :D
My thoughts as well, though Idk if it was my favorite TD, but it was one of the best solo TDs

[Toonic]

HUZZA! Idea Stolen! Oh well.

I got really tired of coding/mapping mine and gave up.

+4 To you.

[Severon]

+4 lol thanks:) If you have any advice/tips/hints I would gladly appreciate it, and also I should think you for some of your work since Oloko sent me a file that I think you did or helped with and I"ve used it as a reference of sorts.

[TheReaper]

I would really appreciate some concept's on the towers. It's gonna be hard to think this many tower models without any assistance.

Almost finished another tower model (Darkness) but that's at home, so I will finish it tonight, and maybe start the texturing on the light tower. It will look a lot better with texture/bump mapping so you guys just wait and see.

Currently at work, in no mood to do actual work, might model another tower if I get some freaking inspiration.... hmm... neeed coffeeee

[Severon]

Okay Well for single element towers:
Nature: Some type of tree structure maybe a bush with thorns so that its projectile could be thorns or if a tree it could be a root coming from the ground if I can find that model.
Fire:Something like pot of fire or even just a fiery pillar
Earth:Like a stalagmite or small rock out cropping and If you wanted you could make 5 separate models for each level of the pure slowly growing in size till its a mountain model.
Duals I can post later if you want ideas for them

[TheReaper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyvciMv2sEY

Thought this would look like "Magic Tower". Gonna get to texturing it tonight

Severon, those seem interesting ideas, if you find pics you like, don't be afraid to post them, so we can mimic the look of them. There will be about 70 different tower models. I might draw some inspiration from the Wc3 ones as well.

[Severon]

@TheReaper, I will look for pictures soon,


as of now I've got good news I know have the first 5 waves done and the spawn system is working properly, but I still don't have the boss spawn in yet, but I have an idea for it so should come around sometime

[TheReaper]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/TheReaperr/2-2.jpghttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/TheReaperr/1-1.jpg

Magic tower completed, I even managed to export it in HoN. But somehow the moment I add the textures in the folder it makes the game crash when I spawn it.

Works very well without the textures.

[Severon]

Looks nice:)


Edit:Idk what to tell you with that crash, except talk to BlacRyu or Warchamp

[Toonic]

I think your Magic Tower needs a texture Upgrade :P

[Roozi]

Not really, it's good already.

[TheReaper]

I think your Magic Tower needs a texture Upgrade :P


It's a 512 texture, the normal mapping is a bit strong, but I think it looks ok. I can't see it in the game to tell if it's ok, need's to be brighter etc. Also it will NEVER be that big on screen, maybe if you zoom it a lot or something.

Plus, I can't make it really high detailed because there will be 200 of these on the screen at one time, you still wanna be able to play right? I can do it better, a lot better actually, but it won't be of much use, and it won't be actually useful. There are way to many tower to concern about the fact that the textures aren't high quality or something.

[Oloko]

Giving a random idea: maybe your crashing because of the shadders in the .material file of the tower.

[Yuichi]

I think you should lower the size to 256x256.
It would still look when you look at it from far away.

[TheReaper]

Giving a random idea: maybe your crashing because of the shadders in the .material file of the tower.

I've got no idea how I'm supposed to bring it textured in the game. I just took all that max 8 exported, and it worked, the moment I added the textures it crashes the moment I try and spawn it.

@Yuichi I am not completely satisfied with the texture, I just want to see it in the game, and then I will work on it some more. I will most probably shrink it to 256x256, as there will be a lot of towers (not all custom made, but still) and I guess we do want the map to not be 150MB :D

[Oloko]

I've got no idea how I'm supposed to bring it textured in the game. I just took all that max 8 exported, and it worked, the moment I added the textures it crashes the moment I try and spawn it.


I don't know if you did, but you should look in your console.log to see if there is not more information on your crash.

[theli]

[RwR]TheReaper , just upload your model with textures and well see what is wrong there

[TheReaper]

[RwR]TheReaper , just upload your model with textures and well see what is wrong there

Thanks theli, will do the moment it get home. I haven't got it finished here at work.

[Severon]

Just to let you know I'm still around I'm posting here, but I'm also going to have to pause/do very little on this map for the next couple of days well most likely till about monday and some late night friday/saturday because of Midterms and having stuff do to on the weekends, I haven't forgotten about it don't worry, just have other things that need done first.

Edit: O and no I'm not ignoring anyone, but other people have seem to have taken care(or volunteered to help) of the issues so I will let them seeing as Oloko, Theli, and Yuichi have alot more experience than I do and Reaper and I are talking outside this thread.

P.S. Thanks guys^.^

[TheReaper]

So here is the download link

http://www.mediafire.com/?wkzgioh0rlk

I placed the max 2009, the max 8 projects, as well as the exported .mdf/.model/.material that were exported from Max 8 using s2exporter.


I am a total noob at modding HoN. :D

[theli]

well, it stops crashing for me once i convert those dds to tga

[theli]

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1873/shot0005a.th.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/shot0005a.jpg/)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mwzmyojqylz

[TheReaper]

I think I got it, the .dds version might be wrong.

Will try with other options, if not, tga it is.

Now to apply the smoothing groups and finish the texture. Doesn't really fit :p

[theli]

I think I got it, the .dds version might be wrong.
well, it was loading diffuse texture and crash when tried to load normal map

[BlacRyu]

I made some quick idle effects for fun (even though there's no bones to attach them to).

I couldn't download theli's link so I used Reaper's, converted the textures to .tga and made an entity file and it worked fine.

Projectile is just taken from legion tower.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8089/shot1069.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/?wfmnm1ozxln

[Yuichi]

That is beautiful :)

[Severon]

epic BlacRyu love it:P

[Amour]

Wtf amazing idea. :dead:

[TheReaper]

I forgot to apply the smoothing groups, so it looks blocky. But I will edit that when I get at home. Still dunno what the problem is with the normal map..

Will experiment when I get home.

P.s. Love what you did BlacRyu

[Yuichi]

Well its a building made of bricks so ofcourse it should look a little blocky :P
Btw I just realised that hey we have engineers turret and ulti that we can use too. Yeah Im a little slow. :)
Edit:
Also If you want to make cannon towers like in Wc3. The ones that rotate their cannon to shoot in right direction.
It seems that you have to make 2 separate models for that.
1 model for the base.
1 model for the rotating part that follows the enemy.
Engineers turret is good reference for that.
I might be horribly wrong about this though. :P
Just sharing things that I find interesting.

[Severon]

I was thinking of throwing in the hellbourne meatball somewhere, but that might because I'm hungry atm

[TheReaper]

@Yuichi (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=270830) there is no need for 2 separate models from what I know, just 1 model with 2 parts and the top part is animated "seek" its target.

Ex. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ooB-WFxkA

I have no idea how to export the animations or code this into HoN. My modding experience = 0. I'm just a graphics artist lulz who never moded another game.

While I do understand how HoN works, I don't have the time to learn it's in's and out's, and find out how it interprets animations etc.

[theli]

you only need to make several meshes in .model file when you want to have different materials on them

[Yuichi]

Hmm meatball is interesting.
You can easily alpha out the meatball if you dont like it and just add some cool effect in its place.
There is a bone in the middle of the meatball.
For example you could just replace the meatball with pyromancers projectile and scale it up a little.

Edit: Well the turret works with 2 models. I have no idea how to make it with only 1 part and animations while making it face the target.
Btw I started to use blender about 4 weeks ago so Im definitely not a pro with it and I can be wrong about many things. :)

[theli]

Yuichi, you are right .. i just misunderstood you ...
turret is split in two parts (with base attached to top as effect) so that top can be oriented without affecting base
its not about animation but orientation the model in the shooting direction

[Yuichi]

Yuichi, you are right .. i just misunderstood you ...
turret is split in two parts (with base attached to top as effect) so that top can be oriented without affecting base
its not about animation but orientation the model in the shooting direction
Im glad that someone understood me!
Your explanation is also much better than mine.

[Kartalov]

hmm this would be great, tower defense on HoN lol... Keep it up ! :)

[TheReaper]

Yuichi, you are right .. i just misunderstood you ...
turret is split in two parts (with base attached to top as effect) so that top can be oriented without affecting base
its not about animation but orientation the model in the shooting direction

So the game actually has 2 different models attachet to one another, I looked into the turret folder and found out what you guys mean.


I can model something similar with no problem, still the coding and attaching them to one another is a different matter. I will have to rely on someone else for that :p


P.S. still waiting for some of that concept art..

[theli]

So the game actually has 2 different models attachet to one another, I looked into the turret folder and found out what you guys mean.


I can model something similar with no problem, still the coding and attaching them to one another is a different matter. I will have to rely on someone else for that :p


P.S. still waiting for some of that concept art..

well, there is no need to split such models as you already did .. since there is no need to have parts of it oriented in shooting direction

[Yuichi]

Attaching them is pretty easy. Attaching btw is pretty wrong term here.
They are not really attached to each other.
You just have to make sure that the root and scene_root bones are at same place.
Yes both of the models have these bones.
It helps a lot if you just build it in a single model at first and separate them later.
That makes sure that they are connected to each other at right place.
Hope that made some sense. :P

Anyways I have a question. Does anyone know how to make projectile spawn from one specific bone and not from the center of the model.
Lets say that I have cannon and I want to make the projectile spawn just outside the cannon and I already have a bone in there.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2679/cannonm.png
It rotates. Now just to fix the projectile... and texture it...
Made this just for fun and to see how things work.

[theli]

Yuichi, isnt it attackoffset attribute in entity file?

[Yuichi]

Yuichi, isnt it attackoffset attribute in entity file?
Hmm how did I miss that... Must be the fever...
Ill see if it works.

Edit:
Attackoffset works perfectly.
Thanks.

[Severon]

I almost said that but wasn't sure, so I kept my peace, I really do need to start being a little more assertive, lol

[TheReaper]

Yuichi I have no idea what you said, could you send me the project please? I could use this in the future :)

Btw what is your tri count? Don't go to high or it might lag the game to much, there will be a ton of these on screen at the same time.

@Severon your project is growing, rejoice !

I did some experimenting tonight, apparently saving in 24bit format stops the crashing from the dds, but the texture fuks up. Might also have something to do with the mip map setting. But I don't know.

Late night nao, have some moar towers for you guys tomorrow, expect a molting experience as well as some darkness coming your way. :o

[NooBSAiBOT1]

You should use the Burbenog Tower Defense as a guide. It was always my favorite. http://war3.incgamers.com/?p=mod&m=2508

[Yuichi]

Yuichi I have no idea what you said, could you send me the project please? I could use this in the future :)

Btw what is your tri count? Don't go to high or it might lag the game to much, there will be a ton of these on screen at the same time.

@Severon your project is growing, rejoice !

I did some experimenting tonight, apparently saving in 24bit format stops the crashing from the dds, but the texture fuks up. Might also have something to do with the mip map setting. But I don't know.

Late night nao, have some moar towers for you guys tomorrow, expect a molting experience as well as some darkness coming your way. :o
Ill put up a download link when I think its finished.
Might take some time though since Ive been pretty busy lately.
Only got this done because I had a day off due to a fever.
Ill try to get this finished sometime during the weekend.

Btw my tri count is 320. I think its pretty low.
Might end up adding a few details and smoothing some edges.
There are some unneeded faces that Ill probably end up removing.
Oh and the texture is 256x256.
Which reminds me that Ill have to do better uv map too.


You should use the Burbenog Tower Defense as a guide. It was always my favorite.I wouldnt be working on this like I have if it werent for the fact that its Elemental TD.
My all time favorite TD map. :)

[BlacRyu]

I wouldn't worry so much about models being too detailed, I really don't think it will cause that much of a performance drop, except for maybe longer load times. I would make things as detailed as you want to now and if you find later on that the game starts to lag when there are a lot on-screen then you can just reduce the quality a bit or just make 3 model quality levels and let the user decide using the game options (which can be changed mid-game, as opposed to wc3 where I believe you had to restart to change most video options).

Savage Maliken's model file is about 10x the size of your magic tower model, but only caused about twice the fps drop when I spawned 100 of them. 100 malikens took me from ~40 to 20 fps, 100 magic towers took me to ~30 fps. So adding twice as much detail as you have now would probably only cause a small loss in performance.


Basically, my computer is pretty average and I can handle this:
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7720/shot1089.th.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/shot1089.jpg/)
So having a hundred or so towers on screen shouldn't be a problem :)


Also, one idea I had is to make a kind of laser tower that does it's damage over time as opposed to using a projectile (and not just by giving it 0.01 attack cooldown and 1 damage). I think that would be pretty interesting and not something I remember really seeing in Wc3 (or in HoN yet).

[Severon]

Also, one idea I had is to make a kind of laser tower that does it's damage over time as opposed to using a projectile (and not just by giving it 0.01 attack cooldown and 1 damage). I think that would be pretty interesting and not something I remember really seeing in Wc3 (or in HoN yet).

You mean sort of like say it does 2 damage in the first second it would do 4 more damage in the second second then 8 in the third and so on? so after 5 seconds it would have done 2+4+8+16+32=62 damage?


You should use the Burbenog Tower Defense as a guide. It was always my favorite. http://war3.incgamers.com/?p=mod&m=2508
Hmm I liked that one as well, but I was looking for a solo td since I don't know of a way to make this multiplayer until the editor/sdk come out



@Severon your project is growing, rejoice !

Rejoice? now the pressure is on. lol O well I'll see what I can have out for you guys to test, by lets say the end of next week?

[Yuichi]

Rejoice? now the pressure is on. lol O well I'll see what I can have out for you guys to test, by lets say the end of next week? Dont worry you are not the only one with some pressure.
I kinda signed myself in this project the moment I uploaded that picture or atleast thats what Id like to think.
Thinking like that makes me work harder and also puts some pressure on me since now I pretty much have to finish that tower.
Which is a good thing? I guess...

For that laser tower.
Kinda like does 0 dmg but applies debuff that while in range of the tower does 20 dp/s. Debuff ends when tower changes target.
Something like this?
Tower wouldnt even need attack projectile so attack speed could be very low. Just take Witch Slayers mana drain effect , tweak it a little and put it on attackstarteffect="".
That should work?


You mean sort of like say it does 2 damage in the first second it would do 4 more damage in the second second then 8 in the third and so on? so after 5 seconds it would have done 2+4+8+16+32=62 damage?Deathboil tower? :D

[Severon]

Dont worry you are not the only one with some pressure.
I kinda signed myself in this project the moment I uploaded that picture or atleast thats what Id like to think.
Thinking like that makes me work harder and also puts some pressure on me since now I pretty much have to finish that tower.
Which is a good thing? I guess...

For that laser tower.
Kinda like does 0 dmg but applies debuff that while in range of the tower does 20 dp/s. Debuff ends when tower changes target.
Something like this?
Tower wouldnt even need attack projectile so attack speed could be very low. Just take Witch Slayers mana drain effect , tweak it a little and put it on attackstarteffect="".
That should work?

Deathboil tower? :D

Lol your right now I am working on this project maybe more than I should be... with school and all and your help is welcome, but if you guys end up making the same model don't be hurt when I chose one over the other(hmm Might even put up a poll or something, which means I might need a forum with admin access, hmm guess clan forums aren't very active with clan stuff anyway...)
Lol Deathboil tower didn't think of it that way, and about what you said about the laser tower a single target immolation?

[BlacRyu]

You mean sort of like say it does 2 damage in the first second it would do 4 more damage in the second second then 8 in the third and so on? so after 5 seconds it would have done 2+4+8+16+32=62 damage?Well that would be cool too, but I just meant simply that instead of something doing 50 damage 'per attack', it does 50 damage per second to whatever it is attacking, without the need for any projectiles or attack speed. Something like this would work well for a flamethrower or lightning/laser beam.

It would be like if Electricians grip were his regular attack but without the disable.

Something like this probably isn't possible right now with the way HoN works, I just thought it would be a cool thing that I'm pretty sure couldn't be done in Wc3.

[Yuichi]

I dont really mind if my models dont make it.
It just means that I need more practice.

Yep pretty much a single target immolation or atleast thats how I see it.
With epic lazor beam effect applied to it ofcourse.
This way of doing it might be a little less resource intensive than having tower with 0.1 attack speed.

[Severon]

Hmm I wonder if you can take the immobilization out of electricians grip... See look now your getting me side tracked....:(

[BlacRyu]

Hmm I wonder if you can take the immobilization out of electricians grip... See look now your getting me side tracked....:(
Lol don't worry about it, I'm sure there are ways you could do it using autocast skills or whatever, I just thought it would be cool if it could actually be implemented as a characters default physical attack. It was more of a suggestion for S2 than for you :P. Just wanted to throw the idea out there.

[TheReaper]

Dont worry you are not the only one with some pressure.
I kinda signed myself in this project the moment I uploaded that picture or atleast thats what Id like to think.
Thinking like that makes me work harder and also puts some pressure on me since now I pretty much have to finish that tower.
Which is a good thing? I guess...


Don't worry, I kinda let myself sucked into this as well, and with a lot of crap to do at the moment :D

Anyway, I don't see any reason to rush it, might as well get the SDK sometime soon.

@Ryu I see wut u did thar, that's my towaaah !!!

Btw, should I add bones to the towers that won't move at all?

And Severon, I don't think we will make models for the same tower, if we get some sort of a better communication (except this thread), we could all post what are we currently working on so we don't override each others work. Imo we should finish it first, then we can update it with better models, new towers etc.

[Severon]

Alright good point Reaper I'll see what I can do on that one, have to check with clan leader just to be sure, but I think I got a forum we could use a section of, considering i'm the main admin on it, but its for the clan so should probably check first.

[Yuichi]

If I start working on something else than the cannon tower Ill pm you or something to ask if you are already doing it :P
I doubt that we are going to make 2 identical towers and having more towers in the reserve is always a good thing.
Try to think of the other TD map makers too. :D

You should add atleast scene_root bone to every model.
Im pretty sure that the attackoffset="" uses this bone.
Ofcourse if you want to add any effects they use bones too.

Forgot to mention. I was at work today and my fever came back.
Ill probably spend the weekend sleeping...
Just when I thought I would get something done...
Now Im just too tired to do anything else than write and read...

[Slayman]

Wow man.
I can't wait to try this out!

Keep up the good work!

[IceOut]

i just cant w8 for the good old td maps i believe that s2 will try and make some cool maps also after they release the game

[Tehwildcard]

UI I started working on (would be one for each element) This would be darkness of course
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9707/darknesstd.jpg

Artwork (http://onikinew.deviantart.com/art/Wc3-elemental-td-load-41457785)

[Toonic]

UI I started working on (would be one for each element) This would be darkness of course :P

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9707/darknesstd.jpg

Looks Interesting. Coming from someone who is working on it with him. If you could some how make it so theres at lest.. 8? 10? Spell slots in the bottom right I'd be amazed.

Currently were still trying to work out the hole buying tower situation.

[Tehwildcard]

If you could some how make it so theres at lest.. 8? 10? Spell slots in the bottom right I'd be amazed.


Yup easy stuff.

[Toonic]

Yup easy stuff.

Alright then! I will see it when its done then.

I know he wont be on much this weekend, out for most of it. So yeah. Ahaha.

[Tehwildcard]

Alright then! I will see it when its done then.

I know he wont be on much this weekend, out for most of it. So yeah. Ahaha.

Just a quick example. Will look better in final ver.



Chains:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4864/bar3m.jpg
Darker:
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9358/darknessbardarker.jpg

Lighter:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1355/darknesstdbar.jpg

[Severon]

That looks nice^.^ let cartoonic said I won't be on much this weekend, this is just quick check up on things, but do you plan to make one for each Element?

[Yuichi]

Once the mapmaker gets out it should be possible to give different UI to each player.
Just like with the terrain. Just an idea.

[Tehwildcard]

Yup, there will be a different UI for each element. The UI can be changed on the fly too.

[TheReaper]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/TheReaperr/skully.jpg

Meet George. He will be one of our darkness tower? (not yet finished)


And maybe merging fire + darkness will get you a flaming skull like Ghost Rider ?

[Toonic]

Deff Looking good guys! I'm just finishing up/working out some tweaks in the "Announcer"

Anyone have any formats they'd like to see?

Currently it is set out to be like.
Level [1]:KongorzElement Type:Fire
Next Wave:Pokemon!Element Type:Water

Of course thats not actually how it is, but yeah thats the sort of how the layout is. Got any suggestions throw them my way!

[Roozi]

I think this is fine...Maybe just type their weakness too.

[Toonic]

I think this is fine...Maybe just type their weakness too.

That would be in the tower description.

[Roozi]

Yeah i know, but i think it would better to type it even in the announcer

[IceOut]

awesome

[Severon]

I've had a little time to work on it this weekend and I've got a couple of things done

[Roozi]

Can you please tell How much time do you need to release at least some pre-alpha version of this map? Because i am REALLY looking forward to it.

[Nicosbz]

Pretty nice proyect, hope u can get it done :)

Good luck

[Severon]

Well I've been discussing it with some people Roozi and I would say you should have something to mess with by end of this week. Unless for somereason everything goes terribly wrong

[Roozi]

Aweeeeeeeesoooooome....Thanks

[Severon]

Update second post to include more of the things I have done.

[TheReaper]

Don't know what darkness tower you got in the game atm Severon, but I completed George anyway.

Here's how he looks :D

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/TheReaperr/shot0018.jpg

Tell me if you need him or not (He still needs some of that nifty coding these guys do :o)

[Auron]

Also did you manage to sort out a tower sell skill in the end? I managed to create a skill with Jash but couldn't get it to give the gold back.

[Severon]

We are still having problems with the gold giving backslasher and TheReaper you can go ahead and send me the file if you want, but I think I might wait and see if I can use it for one of the combination towers

[TheReaper]

We are still having problems with the gold giving backslasher and TheReaper you can go ahead and send me the file if you want, but I think I might wait and see if I can use it for one of the combination towers


Will add the bones tonight and send you the file, I was hoping we could make him turn his head and look at who he's firing at with flames coming out of his eyes.

Could we engulf him in flames using the effects and call him Darkness + Fire :P


I li3k George

[Severon]

Lol I was thinking about using him for the poison tower which would be dark and water, but I was going to have basically wretched hags ultimate coming out of his mouth as his attack projectile ^.^ just because I thought that would fit the skull quit nicely.

[IceOut]

when its finished how will it be played ? on some users server or will s2 make special servers for this map :p

[Oloko]

when its finished how will it be played ? on some users server or will s2 make special servers for this map :p

"Private" servers aren't currently supported by the game, so you can only play custom maps in practice mod if its not hosted on a official S2games server.

[Toonic]

"Private" servers aren't currently supported by the game, so you can only play custom maps in practice mod if its not hosted on a official S2games server.

Thoughhhh *Makes voice all nerdy and pretends to pushes up glasses*

According to my calculations this map will be able to fit 3 "Rows" on top and 3 "Rows" on the bottom allowing this map to be able to play with 6 People.

Though we wont be able to make it so everyone has their own lives untill we get an SDK / Map Editor.

[_DamNation_]

at last a tower defense!

[Severon]

Atlast a load of errors narrowed down to 2 icon bugs...Download link will be up if everything goes well within the next 20 min

[Severon]

Download is Live!

[_DamNation_]

we're can we download it?

[Altazor]

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jizz-in-my-pants-andy-samberg1.jpg


Thank you OP. From the heart.

[Toonic]

Ahaha. Oh ****. SORRY SEV!

Some **** poped up IRL and I couldn't get around to actually doing the **** I said I'd do. Sorry man!!

[Severon]

DamNation

Its on the first post toward the bottom the text thats orange and underlined

Cartoonic

Its all good I just replaced the custom icons I had planned with other icons.

[Altazor]

Just played it. I think for a first approach, and hence that is made from an unofficial (bogus) way, it's AWESOME!

One of the main issues is that I don't know what wave I'm, and sometimes creeps get stuck at the start. I was thinking about using some kind of Echo command or chat all to display the current wave...

But I must say that for an alpha release it's fully playable.

Good Job!

[Oloko]

Awesome job guys!

I was able to get to the last wave and I must say that for an alpha version it was quite enjoyable.

I have some suggestion for you:


Make the world tree unselectable: isselectable="false"
Set the night vision for the reveal gadget: sightrangenight="99999999". I was the one who made the mistake in my first version of Enfo's map, sorry about that.
You should change your texturescale in the worldconfig file to texturescale="16.0000" from texturescale="2.0000". It will make your map textures a lot more natural to HoN. You should really try it out.

Once again great job there! :smile:

[Roozi]

I just finished it and i have to say Good job!
I really appreciate your work. Thanks.
BTW : I found a bug, the light tower isn't able to buy anything.

[Severon]

I just finished it and i have to say Good job!
I really appreciate your work. Thanks.
BTW : I found a bug, the light tower isn't able to buy anything.
Ahh yes thanks for reminding me its because the towers are invulnerable and forgot to change that and apparently the target scheme of ally_units and all_units can't target invulnerable

@Oloko if I change the scaling won't it earse the map terrain?

[Severon]

Just played it. I think for a first approach, and hence that is made from an unofficial (bogus) way, it's AWESOME!

One of the main issues is that I don't know what wave I'm, and sometimes creeps get stuck at the start. I was thinking about using some kind of Echo command or chat all to display the current wave...

But I must say that for an alpha release it's fully playable.

Good Job!

I forgot to answer last night I was half asleep and rushing through, but we currently have a fix for that its just a matter of putting it in which I didn't get done before I released it so expect and up date soon.

I'm really surprised at most the positive feed back. I myself thought that it was okay, but still needed alot of work but maybe because its something I've worked on. I still have bugs with the boss waves and I need to figure out the tier system and adding dual towers in.

[TuN]

I wish I could see Pudge ( Devourer ) Wars in HoN :) Would be awesome :P

[_DamNation_]

awesome

[Active`]

Really imba map!

[Tehwildcard]

Alright, Earth one nearly done check it out: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4155997/EleTd/Example.jpeg <-- (Full Res Screenshot)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2307/exampleps.jpg

Less boring on left side
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4155997/EleTd/Example2.jpeg (Full Res)
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4512/example2l.jpg

[IceOut]

the ui is a bit un interesting

[Tehwildcard]

the ui is a bit un interesting

open for suggestions ;)

was going simple, but efficient so it didn't take away from the game.

[Oloko]

Ahh yes thanks for reminding me its because the towers are invulnerable and forgot to change that and apparently the target scheme of ally_units and all_units can't target invulnerable

@Oloko if I change the scaling won't it earse the map terrain?

No it won't, the texture scale tells the engine how your terrain texture is scaled, this means that your terrain will be at the same spot, but it will repeat itself less frequently. The textures in HoN are made to have a scale of 16, so it will look like its supposed to look like.

I don't know if I explained it right, but anyway just try it you will see for yourself, there is only one spot that will look strange in your map because of this, but I think the rest will look way better.

[Slayman]

Awesome!

[TheReaper]

Well here's the final version of George, with bones and all(hopefully they will work the way I know they should).

http://www.mediafire.com/?tjgvtqzjinw

Severon, when I made the model I didn't make it with its mouth open, if you still want to make him shoot poison out of it, I will edit the model and make him with the mouth open, teeth and all :) .

Here's a preview of him in-game:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/TheReaperr/george.jpg

@Tehwildcard I could help and do some of the other themes, I would just need an example of the UI before it's sliced. I have no coding experience with the way HoN works, but I can draw it :) and then you can edit it and place it in game yourself :)

EDIT: Sorry for being so absent guys, had some RL problems, damn work is getting to me :P

[itaQ]

Doesn't work at all for me, just seeing the map and nothing else happening. Is it supposed to be like this because it isn't finish or ?

[TheReaper]

Doesn't work at all for me, just seeing the map and nothing else happening. Is it supposed to be like this because it isn't finish or ?
It should work, you sure you left the resourcesxxx.s2z in the folder?

[theli]

it didnt work for me on first launch ... it worked after hon restart :-/

[itaQ]

It should work, you sure you left the resourcesxxx.s2z in the folder?

Ye, i have the Resource.s2z and elementTD file in maps folder. I can start it but thats all, tried to play it with Engineer but nothing happens, no creeps spawns and can't see any way to build towers.

[FuN_GaM3r]

really nice map

i love to play this xD

i hope that this get the same status as in wc3 ;)

[theli]

Ye, i have the Resource.s2z and elementTD file in maps folder. I can start it but thats all, tried to play it with Engineer but nothing happens, no creeps spawns and can't see any way to build towers.
i had the same problem
dunno what fixed it but it just worked after hon restart

[Severon]

Ye, i have the Resource.s2z and elementTD file in maps folder. I can start it but thats all, tried to play it with Engineer but nothing happens, no creeps spawns and can't see any way to build towers.


i had the same problem
dunno what fixed it but it just worked after hon restart


That's interesting I'm not sure whats going on itaQ I never had that problem, but just to clarify things a bit you said you have the resources.s2z file and elementTD file in the maps folder. the folder order that I believe suppose to work is

for the resource file: heroes of newerth/game
for the map file: heroes of newerth/game/maps/

maybe you had it like that, but thats the only problem I can currently see and the problem you describe sounds like HoN isn't reading the resource file correctly, so I'd say just make sure its in the game folder and not the map folder. This might not be the case sense theli got it to work:S




Severon, when I made the model I didn't make it with its mouth open, if you still want to make him shoot poison out of it, I will edit the model and make him with the mouth open, teeth and all :smile: .Hmm I could have the poison or stuff come from his eyes or somewhere close to that, but I'm currently on my spring break and in another state visiting family, so I'm not really able to work on it atm, but if you want to make it with his mouth open then your more than welcome to if not I can work with what you have.

[Amana]

Hm it didn?t work on the S2 servers so i can?t play with my clan mates:(

[Toonic]

Hm it didn?t work on the S2 servers so i can?t play with my clan mates:(

Thats correct. The game can only be played in Practice mode. ONLY.

Also Sev. Message me when you can >.< I've had a lot of **** going on in my life so sorry I haven't been on

[Severon]

Hm it didn?t work on the S2 servers so i can?t play with my clan mates:(

You have no idea how much I wish I could make it so:(, but don't worry that will be my first project when ever offical support for custom maps comes out(this would be with the offical editor most likely)

[Brule1]

Well here's the final version of George, with bones and all(hopefully they will work the way I know they should).

http://www.mediafire.com/?tjgvtqzjinw

Severon, when I made the model I didn't make it with its mouth open, if you still want to make him shoot poison out of it, I will edit the model and make him with the mouth open, teeth and all :) .

Here's a preview of him in-game:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/TheReaperr/george.jpg

@Tehwildcard I could help and do some of the other themes, I would just need an example of the UI before it's sliced. I have no coding experience with the way HoN works, but I can draw it :) and then you can edit it and place it in game yourself :)

EDIT: Sorry for being so absent guys, had some RL problems, damn work is getting to me :P

i want this as a hellborne tower model on hon later, can you do this please?

pretty please?

@topic

i am looking foward this, it looks awesome

[Severon]

i want this as a hellborne tower model on hon later, can you do this please?

pretty please?

@topic

i am looking foward this, it looks awesome

Looking forward to this? well I guess it isn't fully complete, but you can already try it out, the download link is in the Original Post

[TheReaper]

I don't have the programming capability to make that into a proper tower in HoN, but if anyone like the good modders we have here feel up to it, just do it, you guys have my permission (just credit me to :D). Btw, that skull is a lot lower poly then the normal HoN towers.

[Severon]

I don't have the programming capability to make that into a proper tower in HoN, but if anyone like the good modders we have here feel up to it, just do it, you guys have my permission (just credit me to :D). Btw, that skull is a lot lower poly then the normal HoN towers.

As of good modder I assume your referring to Oloko whenever he drops in:p, but when ever I get home and get your tower downloaded I'll send you a download link Reaper and you can make a model thread with that download link. it should really only take me a couple minutes to do(I hope)

[TheReaper]

As of good modder I assume your referring to Oloko whenever he drops in:p, but when ever I get home and get your tower downloaded I'll send you a download link Reaper and you can make a model thread with that download link. it should really only take me a couple minutes to do(I hope)


Yeah, but the tower the way I put it in the game just has the generic Legion tower attack and stuff. What I wanted to do was make it rotate towards the target it's actually attacking and making a custom attack, maybe some fire effects using the already in game ones.

Still I have no idea how to do all that, I tired looking at the turret but got lost in all the .entity files :D

[Oloko]

Creating the tower is not too hard since you can take the existing one and change your model. The "hard" part is the attack effect, from what I understood you want it to shoot poison from hits mouth.

The simple solution is to take the n_dragon_master projectile effect and adapt it to your need. I made a little try and only by changing some color value this is what I got:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3491/poisonbreath.png

EDIT: Forgot about the turning around thing. You only need to add:

turnrate="360"
canrotate="true"

With this your tower will turn to target something.

I hope this help you.

[Severon]

Alright guys good news! Well bad news for me... My week of vacation is over, meaning I'll be back home on my computer where I can work on this mod some more.
My next goals are:
Getting waves 36-61 added
Adding Dual Towers in
and Getting you guys a wave spawner so you know what wave your on.(This is basically done its just a matter of refining it and getting it out to you)

[Thatslife]

good work

[Dec0y]

found that the creep would get stuck whenever you would be directly over the spawn, as if your " builder " was a stationary unit, maybe give all creeps, creepwalking? not sure if youve fixed this already, just throwing my 2 cents.

[Albatrozzi]

When i start that map on practise server , i just cant do nothing, cant buy from shop cant move farther than the mid slice where hero spawns any1 help?

[Severon]

When i start that map on practise server , i just cant do nothing, cant buy from shop cant move farther than the mid slice where hero spawns any1 help?

Are you playing as engineer? Do the waves spawn even though your stuck? if not then it sounds like the game isn't loading the resource file and I'm not sure what to tell you beyond the fact to make sure its in the "Heroes of Newerth/game" folder


To the post above yeah I'm aware of that problem:S and I should be fixing it soon

[Oloko]

Wanted to give Severon and everyone else who is scripting in your team a little advice: take a look at the tutorial map file in the test client.

Especially in the game_info.entity, it got looots of good stuff in it. I just opened it 5min ago and I can tell you this will give us lots of possibility when its released on the official. So you should try to take a look at it and plan how to use this soon. :D

Things like : <setscriptvalue name="waypoint_hit" value="1" /> will really simplify everything.

Anyway, I'll look into this this afternoon and talk to Severon about what I was able to find on IRC if I find him.

[Homeblest]

Oh good god, i think i jizzed in my pants.

Tower Defence would be awesome for HoN and i would love to see S2's support on this and possibly add this to the game (with new tower models and creeps of course)


I support this fully and would LOVE to help in any way i can, starting by playing it :D

Good work, don't give up <3


EDIT: This could of course fit into the story of the game, the Legion and Hellbourne are at war right? Its up to the player to choose what side of the battlefield he wants. :)

[Severon]

Wanted to give Severon and everyone else who is scripting in your team a little advice: take a look at the tutorial map file in the test client.

Especially in the game_info.entity, it got looots of good stuff in it. I just opened it 5min ago and I can tell you this will give us lots of possibility when its released on the official. So you should try to take a look at it and plan how to use this soon. :D

Things like : <setscriptvalue name="waypoint_hit" value="1" /> will really simplify everything.

Anyway, I'll look into this this afternoon and talk to Severon about what I was able to find on IRC if I find him.

You mean your making me install the test client to look at this stuff:P(not like it wasn't on my to do list anyway) and yeah I figured they had a way point command somewhere seeing if you blocked off a lane with behemoth they just went around and went to same lane, and the fastest way to hellbourne from legion even from top or bottom isn't their normal path:P


Oh good god, i think i jizzed in my pants.

Tower Defence would be awesome for HoN and i would love to see S2's support on this and possibly add this to the game (with new tower models and creeps of course)


I support this fully and would LOVE to help in any way i can, starting by playing it :D

Good work, don't give up <3


EDIT: This could of course fit into the story of the game, the Legion and Hellbourne are at war right? Its up to the player to choose what side of the battlefield he wants. :)

Lol well they will support this though indirectly when ever they release the map editor and the sdk, cause then they will support custom maps in general.

[_DamNation_]

any update on the waves?

[Severon]

any update on the waves?

sadly no, I haven't had much time to work on it since I've gotten back from vacation i've been busy with school junk check back friday and I should have either an update or another excuseXD

[IceOut]

sadly no, I haven't had much time to work on it since I've gotten back from vacation i've been busy with school junk check back friday and I should have either an update or another excuseXD

why not just rest ur brains till that mapmaker is released ur burnin ur brain for nothin i bet when u finish they gona release it and ud be like WTF :D

[KayKitten]

this is ****ing amazing, i love you

[Severon]

Alright guys next version of alpha is out, though there are probably errors.
Changes waves 36-61 are now in the game
Added Element Arrow towers(these might still be a little bugged haven't done extensive testing on them)
new version here (http://www.mediafire.com/?miqnintmdyd) or in OP

[Barnabus_]

Are you playing as engineer? Do the waves spawn even though your stuck? if not then it sounds like the game isn't loading the resource file and I'm not sure what to tell you beyond the fact to make sure its in the "Heroes of Newerth/game" folderI put it in HON/Game/Maps and picked engineer on practice mode, no waves spawned. Not sure what I should be buying either as the "world tree/shop" just has all the regular items HON has. Oh and I also cant move from the starting point, I can walk around but not off the original platform to move to another one.

[ko]

yo is this multiplayer?

[Severon]

I put it in HON/Game/Maps and picked engineer on practice mode, no waves spawned. Not sure what I should be buying either as the "world tree/shop" just has all the regular items HON has. Oh and I also cant move from the starting point, I can walk around but not off the original platform to move to another one.
the resource file should not be in HON/Game/Maps it should be in HON/Game


yo is this multiplayer?
No, but I will make it multiplayer whenever S2 releases the map editor

[Volt]

This is soooo bad ass. I loved playing this game, definitely a good thing to keep me excited for the real HoN mapmaker and what custom maps will be like then!

[Silk76]

Nice Work ! Really enjoyable :)

I don't know where to ask this, but since you made your own map you may be able to answer me:

1) Is it possible to create Bots and AI the same way you created your Element TD map? (i'm not asking any body to do it i'd like to work on it).

2) Do you know when the official mapEditor will be released? Or where I can get infos about it?

3) Is there a tutorial somewhere about how to create his own map? (I saw some about heroes, addon etc but couldn't fine anything about map)

I know it's not the place to ask for this but after searching for a long time, this is the only place somewhat related with it I found.

Sry for the inconvenience. keep the good work ;)

[Johnny]

last time I looked it was v0.1. where is the change log? add to OP as a code section?

[Oloko]

Nice Work ! Really enjoyable :)

I don't know where to ask this, but since you made your own map you may be able to answer me:

1) Is it possible to create Bots and AI the same way you created your Element TD map? (i'm not asking any body to do it i'd like to work on it).

2) Do you know when the official mapEditor will be released? Or where I can get infos about it?

3) Is there a tutorial somewhere about how to create his own map? (I saw some about heroes, addon etc but couldn't fine anything about map)

I know it's not the place to ask for this but after searching for a long time, this is the only place somewhat related with it I found.

Sry for the inconvenience. keep the good work ;)

1. I answered you on hon.curseforge.com so you can look there. Short answer: yes, but you may be limited, it need testing.

2. The map editor will be coming after the release of the game, no date specified (source (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=80901)). You can find more info about the editor in the Ask S2 #2 (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=39882).

3. I made a guide to make your custom map (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=41011) using the editor from an older game made by S2Games (Savage 2). But let me tell you that its a real pain to get started and its only a workaround. This will let you make the terrain, but the scripting is done by hand with a text editor.

If you need help to get started with scripting then do come on the irc channel (irc://irc.s2games.com/honlabs).

[Silk76]

Thanks again Oloko :) You are everywhere!

I saw your guide with the editor, but like you said it's only to create the terrain, and I'll will start from an official map.

I won't use this place anymore since it was not the good one to begin with. Sorry for polluting it.

[Barnabus_]

the resource file should not be in HON/Game/Maps it should be in HON/Game

Ok, how do I load the map then? I put it in the game folder and then couldnt select the map from the map menu so I started a Forest of Calvadar game and I could see the towers and what not to buy, but the map was...forest of calvadar and nothing worked.

Can you put up a quick guide on how exactly to test the alpha map? Someone?

[Severon]

adding how to play the map to OP now and will place change log in second post

[Oloko]

I don't know if you guys are still working on this map, but I have some suggestion for you. With the new patch, we get new commands we can use in scripting and we can make server based scripting.

The first thing I suggest you to do is merge your resourcesX.s2z file with your map file. You can now but the content of your resources file inside your map file by creating a "resources" folder inside your map and drop everything in there. I tested this with my Enfo's and it worked fine. With this people will be able to play your map anytime without the need to restart the game and move/delete the files.

Also you can skip the hero selection phase and spawn a specific hero. I think you will like this since you want people to use engineer. You can find how to do this by looking into the game_info.entity of the tutorial. Here is the basic idea:

Use the <onaddplayer> and the <onentergame> to skip the selection phase and the start the script you want when the player get into the map. You need to add your hero into your map by editing the entity file and add:

<entity angles="0.0000 0.0000 0.0000" dormant="1" index="5419" model="/heroes/pyromancer/model.mdf" name="player_hero" position="1400.9194 1603.2666 111.7578" scale="1.6650" seed="0" skin="default" team="1" type="Hero_Engineer"></entity>

Note the dormant="1", I think it means that the entity will not appear in the game until you "spawn" it by the following scripting command:
<spawn name="player_hero" />. After this you can do <foreachplayer> and do the following:

<setent1 name="player_hero" />
<setinterface entity="target_entity" name="" />
<changeteam entity="target_entity" team="1" />
<setowner entity="ent1" player="target_entity" />
<sethero entity="target_entity" hero="ent1" />
<setscriptvalue name="player_has_hero" value="1" />
<setlevel entity="stack_entity" value="1" />
<pushability source="ent1" name="Ability_AllTheAbilityYouWant" />

Well that's the basic idea. I hope this will help you. :smile:

[Severon]

That can be very helpful! thanks alot Oloko, o and yes I'm still around, working on it casual more than religiously now, but i plan to get another update and release out there within the next month? right now i'm finishing up the wave announcer so that players can see what level they are actually onXD anyway thanks once again!

[Oloko]

That can be very helpful! thanks alot Oloko, o and yes I'm still around, working on it casual more than religiously now, but i plan to get another update and release out there within the next month? right now i'm finishing up the wave announcer so that players can see what level they are actually onXD anyway thanks once again!

I don't know if you saw, but I'm pretty sure there is a new function you can use in script to print a message on screen. I can't look at it right now cause I'm at work, but you can find it in the tutorial.

[Barnabus_]

When I played this, I couldnt actually upgrade my elemental shops past level 1, nor could I figure out if I could do double or triple towers, I didnt know if it was intentional (not implemented yet) or just not working. As of right now, all I can do is build regular towers, upgrade them to max, and build elemental towers and upgrade them to max, regardless of element level.

Can also spawn like an unlimited amount of elementals for upgrades with no time restriction.

I know you havent put in all the levels right now, but the game is insanely easy with just the first 30 levels. You dont have to do anything but build a few upgraded element towers and just afk while you win.

[xCroWx]

sry for asking this question but how do i buy towers? when i press "B" it shows everything gray and i cant buy anything so what should i do?
EDIT: solved the problem but i found a bug: when you summon a monster with ophelia others get stuck and cant go any farther and can't kill the summoned one

[Xenonymous]

That never stopped Warcraft 3 modders.

Hi
i would like to know did u fix this bug?
"when you play forests of caldavar the item shop still has the same items in your map"
can u fix it?

[APKRage1]

*note: You will not be able to play a regular game of HoN without moving the resourcesSevsETDAplpha2.s2z ouside of the game folder. It will disable all items and some skills.

Posted in the description.... You should have read everything.

[Farm4Ace]

it works only alone on practice?

[Oloko]

it works only alone on practice?

Yes that's right, you can't play custom maps with other players.

[MackKnife]

im waiting for a Td clone from wc3 too HoN hope this will come :-)

[GGreenBass]

I'm sure someone's said this already, but (just in case,) you should definitely make a Honmod version of this- that way you don't have to physically move the .s2z out of the folder; you can just Enable/Disable it from the Honmod manager.

[Oloko]

I'm sure someone's said this already, but (just in case,) you should definitely make a Honmod version of this- that way you don't have to physically move the .s2z out of the folder; you can just Enable/Disable it from the Honmod manager.

Well with the release of version 3.0 you can put the resources inside your map file, making them load only when you play the custom map (like the tutorial). I already showed to Severon how to do it so there is no real point in making an honmod version.

[IceOut]

Well with the release of version 3.0 you can put the resources inside your map file, making them load only when you play the custom map (like the tutorial). I already showed to Severon how to do it so there is no real point in making an honmod version.

too bad game goes live soon, will u make more maps when map editor arives?

[Oloko]

too bad game goes live soon, will u make more maps when map editor arives?

I personally will make more maps as soon as the mutliplayer support for custom maps come out for sure if I still play HoN.

[pwnz0r123]

whenever i try to extract to game/map it tells me cannot output file.
i've tried 7zip and winrar.

[Severon]

too bad game goes live soon, will u make more maps when map editor arives?
Yes i do have plans to make more maps, after I finish this one. Which I'll state more below about finishing this one...

whenever i try to extract to game/map it tells me cannot output file.
i've tried 7zip and winrar.
I'm not sure what to tell you pwnz0r123 I haven't had this problem and I'm not sure how to trouble shoot it:( sorry hopefully someone will know when they look in here.

now about this map, I'm sorry for my long absent about post and stuff, but i've been swamped with work,school,life, and getting ready for 3-4 marriages this summer and I've had little to no free time as of late, so i still might work on it from time to time, but for now i guess the status will be on hold until things settle down for me... sorry guys.

[Oloko]

If you saw this, forget I posted it please!

[Garrdakk]

Wonderfull!
A wet dream of mine is to have co-up TD, Puzzlequest and HoN in the same game, then I wouldnt have to buy a new game in ages:P

Thanks alot for making TD in HoN!

[SpockNL]

do any of you guys have problems with unpakking the folder of this TD map??
if I try to extract the folder ElementTD.s2z I get this error:

! ...\Heroes of Newerth\game\resourcesSevsETDAplpha2.s2z: Cannot create maps\ElementTD.s2z
! Cannot find the specified folder. <--translated from own language

the map I specified is ...\Heroes of Newerth\game\maps

atm I use windows vista and the program WinRAR. I checked my rights on the file and i have them all.

any help?

[SpockNL]

nvm, i figured it out. i didnt have all the rights on the maps Heroes of Newerth, game, and maps.
prob solved.

[Boens]

Hey guys..
I haven't tried the map, but looks like great work!
Was just wandering if you have thought of using wards as towers? :)

[Pobzyh]

I'm really excited about this, the problem is that S2 isn't really talking about the map editor.

I think it's either going to be a release surprise or it won't be released at all. Hon is going to be double the game it is now if the map editor is really good.

[Severon]

Hey guys..
I haven't tried the map, but looks like great work!
Was just wandering if you have thought of using wards as towers? :)
Well the way they are placed is similar to wards. in the aspect that you click the item then place them where you want them if that's what your asking, but the way I went about spawning the unit was using engineers turret ability on an item.

I'm really excited about this, the problem is that S2 isn't really talking about the map editor.

I think it's either going to be a release surprise or it won't be released at all. Hon is going to be double the game it is now if the map editor is really good.
I agree If the editor is good this game will be really good. As for the editor they said it will be released, but not till sometime after retail:S, so idk when that will be.

[GGreenBass]

Well with the release of version 3.0 you can put the resources inside your map file, making them load only when you play the custom map (like the tutorial). I already showed to Severon how to do it so there is no real point in making an honmod version.
Ah, OK. I'll control+F through the topic so I can do that, thanks ^^

EDIT: Don't stop the hard work :D

[Wish]

Well the retail is out now xD ... so is there some new progress?..

[IceOut]

y im wondering this too SDK where is it,wheres mapmaker i want play some td and hero arenas god damn it !!

[Severon]

Well the retail is out now xD ... so is there some new progress?..
I know retail is out, but we are still waiting on the editor, I could work on adding new towers, but the tiered element system wouldn't be intact and that would allow people to have pure Darkness or 3 element mixes after round 5. The game is already to easy without adding this...Don't worry though I am not giving up on this project yet just waiting for a time I can make it complete and not just flimsy work around"s" and unbalanced killing.


y im wondering this too SDK where is it,wheres mapmaker i want play some td and hero arenas god damn it !!
As soon as we get these things I believe there will be multitude of maps appear. I've heard considerable amount of people talking about making maps and working on maps not just Enfo's (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=73986), BeHoNeled (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=117575), and this td

[IceOut]

I know retail is out, but we are still waiting on the editor, I could work on adding new towers, but the tiered element system wouldn't be intact and that would allow people to have pure Darkness or 3 element mixes after round 5. The game is already to easy without adding this...Don't worry though I am not giving up on this project yet just waiting for a time I can make it complete and not just flimsy work around"s" and unbalanced killing.


As soon as we get these things I believe there will be multitude of maps appear. I've heard considerable amount of people talking about making maps and working on maps not just Enfo's (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=73986), BeHoNeled (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=117575), and this td

nice i hope there will be like at least 5 maps out when sdk comes

[RattusP]

This is excellent thank you so much for creating this!

[Static]

Whenever I create the game, I uncheck all options and have everything at normal, make it a practice game, and hit start...it then loads about 1/6th of the way, and locks up. Sometimes it'll get to that point and just crash HoN.

Any idea why this is happening? I have all mods removed.

[Severon]

Whenever I create the game, I uncheck all options and have everything at normal, make it a practice game, and hit start...it then loads about 1/6th of the way, and locks up. Sometimes it'll get to that point and just crash HoN.

Any idea why this is happening? I have all mods removed.
Hmm I will look into this and tell you what I find. Is anyone else experiencing this? I will send you a PM if i remember if not check the thread soon.(I'm still fairly busy so this might take time, but I think i have some free time after work tomorrow if not then Monday I will have most the day I believe)

[RattusP]

I can't seem to get to level 37? I get to about 30 every time and they stop spawning... :( Also, I found sometimes I can buy one of the elementals, spawn him and they start again.

[Fav`]

heeps cool cant wait to play!

[Framerate]

So...

From your explanation of installing the map, which I followed, were:
take the file to HoN/game folder; check
now enter the file and find the maps; check
extract the maps to hon/game/maps; check

Trying to load the maps, and it just stops loading.

What the heck

[Static]

Boo =( still can't seem to get it working. Dunno wtf is going on.

[Static]

Alright well I've now completely reinstalled the game, and done everything from scrap, and it STILL breaks.

[Severon]

alright guys i've been working on this today to see where some of the errors where coming from, I doubt i got them all and i bet there are still alot of bugs in here 2, but expect me to update sometime soon

[Severon]

Alright files up with new set of directions too, thanks for the support

Just in case you don't want to go to first post...link (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uhiwwzyjmoj)

[Oloko]

Alright files up with new set of directions too, thanks for the support

Just in case you don't want to go to first post...link (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uhiwwzyjmoj)

You forgot to remove the older map version from the maps folder. You should also remove the loading picture since its not used anymore by the game and only make the file larger.

Keep up the good work.

[Ratmanscoop]

Not working for me on current version. You get about 1 second of being able to see the map then the brightness is set to 0 so you can't see anything. Tried extracting the s2z but this causes HoN to crash on loading the map. :mad:

[Severon]

You forgot to remove the older map version from the maps folder. You should also remove the loading picture since its not used anymore by the game and only make the file larger.

Keep up the good work.
O yeah forgot about the older map ver, also forgot to update current map ver... Thanks


Not working for me on current version. You get about 1 second of being able to see the map then the brightness is set to 0 so you can't see anything. Tried extracting the s2z but this causes HoN to crash on loading the map. :mad:
thats wierd idk whats going on...Oloko might be able to help here. I'll look into it, but i don't get the problem:(

Anyone else have this problem?

[hzzzln]

nice, this is epic man! good job!

[That0neGuy]

Hey, my computer wont let me download from mediafire (no idea why) so can someone upload it to another site please? thanks :)

[Crabski]

Cool stuff Severon! I look forward to seeing this progress as more tools become available.

[Tankie]

this looks awesome, i cant wait until the official map editor is out so stuff like this will be everywhere

[edxs]

this looks awesome, i cant wait until the official map editor is out so stuff like this will be everywhere

The ability to use custom maps will be far more significant in driving development than a map editor. Most of want people want to do is already possible, but there's no way to play it.

[Tomm_svk]

I played it and all i can say is wow! I'd really like to help, just tell me if you need some models.

heres my last doodle.
http://uploader.sk/imagehosting/ucrhjlc3wp59cwfiewwq_thumb.jpg (http://uploader.sk/viewer.php?file=ucrhjlc3wp59cwfiewwq.jpg)
well it doesnt really look like a tower, but it could be used as an environmental piece maybe.
http://uploader.sk/imagehosting/s9mq7i7l8o3utiglnc00_thumb.jpg (http://uploader.sk/viewer.php?file=s9mq7i7l8o3utiglnc00.jpg)
but still had some troubles getting it into hon.

[Tankie]

The ability to use custom maps will be far more significant in driving development than a map editor. Most of want people want to do is already possible, but there's no way to play it.

yeh but i thought, once they release the official map editor, they will allow the custom maps to be played online and downloaded from others.
otherwise releasing a map editor for single player practice mode only would be really pointless, imo.

[edxs]

Well, I was trying to imply that they could allow custom maps (probably means they just need to allow private servers) prior to releasing a nice, polished map editor because a lot of work would get done suddenly.

[Jair]

pretty awesome

[spivz0r]

This is awesome. I can't wait till the SDK comes out. Hopefully even more maps will come out then.

[Gorb]

Holy Jesus on a stick I can't believe I didn't find this map until now.

I'm somewhat addicted to EleTD on my copy of WC3, kudos, props and fresh kittens/babies (your choice; not both, can't be re-negotiated; please call heLL on 666 for further information and warranty statements) for recreating this for HoN :)

EDIT: Whups that's something of a bump. Apologies for that. Just saw the link in your signature in another thread.

[Severon]

Holy Jesus on a stick I can't believe I didn't find this map until now.

I'm somewhat addicted to EleTD on my copy of WC3, kudos, props and fresh kittens/babies (your choice; not both, can't be re-negotiated; please call heLL on 666 for further information and warranty statements) for recreating this for HoN :)

EDIT: Whups that's something of a bump. Apologies for that. Just saw the link in your signature in another thread.

Lol its all good I should probably put in my sig that i'm waiting for the map editor to finish out the rest of the game/balances.(main reason I let thread die)

[``OmgImSoBad]

Great idea. Wish u good luck at work on this project.

[``OmgImSoBad]

delete this plz

[Mur`gul]

What about taking existing models as towers too? Guess the meatball would be a nice darkness/fire combo or some of the legion buildings can be light/nature and so on. Nature towers can throw deadwoods log as attack animation, ...
And is it possible to take the so called "doodads" (like little lamps, runes, ...) as tower models? There are some nice things in the forest i just discovered^^

well i'd like to help you out with ideas like i posted above. if you even need that.
good luck with your project :)

[Oloko]

What about taking existing models as towers too? Guess the meatball would be a nice darkness/fire combo or some of the legion buildings can be light/nature and so on. Nature towers can throw deadwoods log as attack animation, ...
And is it possible to take the so called "doodads" (like little lamps, runes, ...) as tower models? There are some nice things in the forest i just discovered^^

well i'd like to help you out with ideas like i posted above. if you even need that.
good luck with your project :)

I think you can use the props models and use them as tower or projectile, all their models are in ressources0.s2z/world/props. Since they don't have an attack animation it might look kind of awkward, but I guess that it's not too bad, you do what you can with what you have. You could also create some '.effect' file to make it look like they are attacking.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this project is on hold until the editor comes out.

[GauntElakor]

Well, top of the page+TD=must see. And this seems to be full of win, I hope it gets done properly.

[Severon]

I think you can use the props models and use them as tower or projectile, all their models are in ressources0.s2z/world/props. Since they don't have an attack animation it might look kind of awkward, but I guess that it's not too bad, you do what you can with what you have. You could also create some '.effect' file to make it look like they are attacking.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this project is on hold until the editor comes out.

Yes Oloko is right this project is on hold till the editor comes out, for a lot of reasons, one patches end up messing up things, idk how much I'll be able to port from this version into the editor(rather how easily done it will be) so i don't want to put a lot of work into this alpha pre-state just to find out it will be easier to start from the scratch again. those are the two biggest reasons at the moment not to mention college takes a lot of time, so in my free time I like playing a few games.


Well, top of the page+TD=must see. And this seems to be full of win, I hope it gets done properly.

I plan on doing my best with this project once the editor comes out, but I will always be looking for feed back to make it better!


What about taking existing models as towers too? Guess the meatball would be a nice darkness/fire combo or some of the legion buildings can be light/nature and so on. Nature towers can throw deadwoods log as attack animation, ...
And is it possible to take the so called "doodads" (like little lamps, runes, ...) as tower models? There are some nice things in the forest i just discovered^^

well I'd like to help you out with ideas like i posted above. if you even need that.
good luck with your project :)
Yes their are a lot of models in game that will of great use to use, as you mention Hellbourne will have plenty of stuff that could be used as either dark or fire, hardest one to come up with stuff for will most likely be water, though thanks to Kraken and bubbles I at least have a starting point:)

[Amero]

Really really nice,

Still there was some bugs that I did notice.

1st some times the creeps wants to stop move and block the path for the rest of them.
2nd I am eligible to control all of the bosses :)

Keep up good work.

P.s. it's kinda easy map :P

[htk42]

SOOOOOOOO nice!

Good work plz kept working on it !!!!

you are just a GOD !!!

the only thing miss in HON is TD MAP

So need more !!!

Thx for this map