Robe of Reaction (Castspeed item)

[Blyth]

http://i38.tinypic.com/2v8fsjl.jpg Apprentice Robe (450)

http://i38.tinypic.com/k54dg0.jpg Pickled Brain (1000)

http://i38.tinypic.com/ofvxad.jpg Robe of Reaction recipe (700)
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Robe of reaction (2150)

Passive Bonuses
+8 Intellect
+4 Strength
+4 Agility
+250 Max Mana
+25 Cast Speed
12% Evasion


Utility
A relatively cheap item with cast speed, which is the rarest stat which few increase :p. Great item giving you an advantage over your enemies by doing everything a little faster. Some evasion for survivability, it is a Robe of Reaction after all.

Really helpful in almost every situation, but still, getting 25 cast speed isn't a huge boost, hence the price.

Preferably bought by any INT hero with lots of AOE spells, really helpful to get everything of a bit faster. But still boosts many heroes that isn't INT ^^

Rework: I decided to change the ring of the teacher to a Pickeled brain, again to make the item more unique, and now it will be better for mana dependant heroes early-mid game. Also the name is a pun on the ingredients (get it?) xD

Good item for: :pyro::pebb::witc::fors::hell::dark::pand::deme:

Please comment and don't get to stuck on numbers they can always be changed, comment on the concept! Also thx to Nome for the template, really good!

[McNaab]

genius! dunno if theres a reason that no castspeed items exists yet but I love it anyway :D

[Mythar1]

Behemoths heart on int heroes.

[serrath]

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Change the items required. No int hero wants attack speed (Except maybe puppet master) but he doesn't even really need fast attack speed. Because you want this to be useful to int heroes with aoe spells, I would have to say change the gloves of the swift to a ring of the teacher, cut out the devotion aura and damage, increase the brilliance to lets say, 1 or 1.1, and then you have an item of the same price that now targets the audience you want it to.

(Also, if you don't think cutting out ring of the teacher's armor and damage is a good idea, just think of shaman's headdress and refreshing ornament, both cut out essential stats that you want from the original items, but you just have to deal with it).

Good luck

[Blyth]

Mythar: Hmm forgot behes heart :p but since it only applies for INT heroes and this applies to all heroes u could stay say that it's kind of new xD

Shadow: Guess you're right :p Saw that most itn heroes go for some manareg/survival items, maybe too late to change, but then again it's not that that matters, but the aura, think most people that like the idea likes the aura so maybe it's free to change. Check back l8er!

Edit: There we go, think u had a good point, like it better now?

[Twiggie]

imho drop the damage, add the armour from the ring

[Blyth]

I kinda thought that the ring contributed with 10 damage and 1 mana reg after the recipe upgrade, sine it's 6 damage and 0.65 mana reg pre upgrade, and the gloves + attack speed converts into cast speed, kinda thought it would be more damage-oriented than survivalist, but ultimately it's all up to s2 so if they see it fit they'll prob do what they want :p

[SLASHER`]

I like it but maybe the cast speed bonus is a little high when compared to behemoths heart buff.

[Shixax]

Make the mana the aura and the cast speed increase on that hero only, if not all team gets benefit from not paying, though it's the same with nome's, I fill that way would be more balanced.

[Blyth]

SimAnt: Hmm I think it's fair, behemoths heart gives u a ton of additional buffs, 15% reduced cooldown, a ton of health and reg, and it's 3k more expensive, This is basically just castspeed. On the other hand it's for the whole team, but still 25 cast speed doesn't make an extreme difference and I think the main bonus from behemoths heart is the reduced cooldown, who knows how valuable castspeed is : /

Still if someones item is implemented it's balanced by s2, so rly nothing to worry about, just a concept and im glad u like it : D

Shixax: The mana and damage is for the holder of the item only, and the aura is there for every ally hero within 600 radius, it's kind of meant to be a team-item so I wont change it xD But still this Could just as well be a self-bonus item, but then it'd have better stats I think

But overall items that give a team bonus is more fun :p like nome's wisdom or skull

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Don't understand why the gloves are still in the recipe... I know that the item you're making is a pair of gloves, but you can either change the item to lets say a robe, or just make apprentice robe turn into the gloves. (Not all combinations make much sense, and gloves of the swift should be apprentice robe, and this item should give either 6 or 8 int).

[dxiver]

Behemoths Heart does add cast speed....(as long as your int) but i cant see agi or str heroes getting this item...

[Blyth]

Shadow: Well I have the gloves for the + attackspeed, which with the recipe is turned into castspeed xD Why would you prefer a robe and + intellect instead?

dxiver: y I forgot about behe's heart, but then again thats only for INts, but should prolly change that in the description anyway.

Ofcourse it is best for pure stun/nukers, but I could still se lots of other heroes benefit from the aura that it provides, like Forsaken, engi, andro, panda, magmus (if it does shorten channeling time, does it?) and probably pebbles, to mention a few. Im not an expert but I think they would all benefit from being able to perform their spells faster.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Point is that it gives no attack speed, and that's all that gloves should give. And if a caster gets it, they'll want an int boost.

Making a reference to another item, take sheepstick. Why does it turn people into teeth? I don't know, has nothing to do with what goes into it, it just does.

Why does a sustainer and a great arcana make an item that takes all of your stuff off cooldown, but costs a ton of mana and removes the int boost you need from the great arcana? I don't know.

Point: The item is too expensive, pretty much all you're paying for here is increased cast speed, and that's not worth 1900. Give it 6 or 8 int, make it a 1.1 brilliance aura, take out the gloves, put in apprentice robe, and get rid of the 10 damage.

Just my opinion, but I hope it helps.

[Lostthegame]

I said yes, but change the stats and items around a bit. Good concept though

[Blyth]

Hmm many don't like the items in in, but the concept.... Fine Ill change it one more time, just a question to you shadow lance, what is brilliance aura???

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Brilliance aura is the aura that gives mana. Like Glacius' mana regen aura but with a smaller range. It would give allies in a 600 or 700 aoe 1.1 mana regen per second. That's a brilliance aura.

[Blyth]

I c, perhaps it should have the same range as the castspeed buff, will change it one final time, thx for the feedback!

Edit: There we go, seems perfected to me! : D

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Final comments: The recipe is an issue, solely because it costs almost as much as the components, that should not happen.

Your stats are good, but please just cut out the damage, PLEASE! It's good enough without the damage and the ring of the teacher's damage boost can be cut out.

Only thing I think you need to do is throw in another item and lower the recipe. I do not know what this item should be however...

Best recommendations: Now that I see the price vs stats, I think that the robe should be the book, that would boost the price of components and a 12 int bonus would be fine.

Other would be a scarab, but because it's already pretty widely used I'm not totally sure.

So please take out the damage, and either make the cast speed not part of the aura or take out the defense completely, either one has to be done for balance.

Gl

[Blyth]

Hmm, I see what you mean, a common price for a recipe is about the cost of one component, and a common number of components is 3, so a third... You Could make it an auto, but I think u rly need the recipe to explain the "conversion" :p The recipe can also be much cheaper than the components, even if I think that's not rly a good solution. So maybe if I added a fourth item? Like a major totem and give it passive +6 str/agi and +12 int, boosting all +stats by 2 after the convertion, and lowering the cost of the recipe by 300, rly wanna keep the robe, becouse the whole thing is a robe :p And also remove the damage

That would make the total cost ~2090, giving it about the same passives as Nome's wisdom, -4 int and -50% mana reg. Nome's wisdom is still 200 gold more expensive, and getting healed for 25% of mana used it prob more valuable. I just fear that it will become to much like Nome's wisdom, the passives are about the same, so is the aura, pretty much the only big difference will be the "special" aura.

But still alchemist bones have a recipe for 900 gold, and 2 components for 500, so it's not really unthinkable.

Id say that the higher the total cost of the item is, the more important is it that the biggest expensive isn't the recipe, becouse you need some stats to fill in between, but 900 isn't much at all really, so perhaps it's not a big deal?

Also, as you can see the passive and auras are pretty similar to nome's wisdom, which could be considered a defensive/supportive item. So keeping some damage could give it a more ofensive approach, which would distinct it from Nome's (althought it has +10 damage, which is kinda weird, perhaps showing that s2 rly don't want to cut away the initial items bonuses, maybe...)

[Strier]

blacksmith gets +castspeed.

pretty decent idea tho.

[Tanubis]

I very much like the idea, but I also worry about it competing and losing with Nome's Wisdom. +25 cast speed is a minor buff, nowhere near the benefit of 25% manacost in heals. It costs close to Nome's too. I'd tweak it to take a void talisman - keep the activated effect of void talisman, remove the recipe cost so it is just robe + void talisman + ring of the teacher (450+500+1500 = 2450), and remove the + damage and let it keep void talisman's stats (+7 to all). Would make it a decent int survival item.

*Edit: It'd be really cool if the benefit for the aura increased while in void talisman's affect. Maybe juice it to +55 cast speed while you're phased out.

[Blyth]

Strife: Ah, forgot about him too xD

Tanubis: Hmm, it does kinda lose to nome's wisdom, but I really wanna have a recipe and keep the items as they are : / What if I lowered the armor aura to +2 instead, cut the recipe with 200 gold. That would make it pretty much cheaper than Nome, but still keep the main bonus. Guess the cost on an item is kinda hard to balance :p

Btw lowered the mana reg to 1 instead, becouse of price n such

[Blyth]

Almost popular! :p

[OJPhoenix]

despite that you keep saying Behemoth's only gives cast speed to Int heroes, this item is mostly going to be bought on Int heroes, as it should be, thus the argument about Behemoths not giving it Str and Agi heroes becomes somewhat Irrelevant.

I can see this being good for support ints anyway, I'm going to vote yes, I like the idea :D

[Blyth]

Yeah It's supposed to be bought by Int but it will help everyone :p as u said it's a support item for the whole team but bought by Int's. And the behe thing is still true :p It only gives bonus cast speed to int heroes whilst this will be for everyone, and certain strength heroes and agi heroes would benefit alot form castspeed too

[Blyth]

Popular! Please if you vote No state why or else it's useless....

[Porada_Ninfu]

good idea

+25 cast speed = 25 ms faster = 0,025 seconds (or not? correct me if I'm wrong)

giving skills without cast time 75 ms delay (instead of 100)

i think this is hard to recognize.

for skills like Soulstealer ulti it would be good to give like 10% less cast time, but not to give 25 ms.

i think this item needs a %-value, but this is just my opinion ;)

[Blyth]

good idea

+25 cast speed = 25 ms faster = 0,025 seconds (or not? correct me if I'm wrong)

giving skills without cast time 75 ms delay (instead of 100)

i think this is hard to recognize.

for skills like Soulstealer ulti it would be good to give like 10% less cast time, but not to give 25 ms.

i think this item needs a %-value, but this is just my opinion ;)

I don't think it works that way, but Im not sure, however 25 castspeed is noticeable, just a run practice game with pyro and compare his stun with lvl 0 in fevor and lvl 3 and you'll see :p

[Varp]

Oh cool, an item which requires Ring of the Teacher, cool idea.
T-up.

[Porada_Ninfu]

I don't think it works that way, but Im not sure, however 25 castspeed is noticeable, just a run practice game with pyro and compare his stun with lvl 0 in fevor and lvl 3 and you'll see

Ok u are right, it rly does not work like this.

So anyone knows how this cast speed thing is calculated in seconds?

[Blyth]

I wonder if they shorten the duration of channeled abilities.... would be rly useful for most heroes with channeling ulties like vodoo or FA, but bad for Tempest xD

[Caboose]

I wonder if they shorten the duration of channeled abilities.... would be rly useful for most heroes with channeling ulties like vodoo or FA, but bad for Tempest xD

Channels are not affected by cast speed. You can test it out by going into Chronos' ult which reduces cast speed by 90%. The time it takes you to start channeling the move will be slower, but the channel will not last longer.

You can't test this in practice mode though since all heroes are considered to be you (even enemy heroes) and will not be slowed by the ult.

[Static]

+25 cast speed is a LOT for an item that cheap. Imagine it on a hero like pyo or Torturer early game, where by themselves, their stuns are impossible to land against a smart enemy. Get this on them, and all of a sudden they're unstoppable.

Also note Behemoth's heart, a 3200+1100+1200 = 5500g item. It gives a whole what...15 cast speed? And that's a LOT. Giving 25 cast speed for a <2k gold item is ridiculous.

imo: rework to be a survivability item. Maybe have it be an upgrade to frostfield plate, to grant you AS as well?

[laserblade]

Outclassed by Nome's Wisdom in terms stats and aura.
However, I would like an item focusing on Cast Speed so I hope you can find better numbers to make the item at the same level as Nome's Wisdom.

[Jerich]

T-up. I just really like the concept of an item that increases cast speed.

[Blyth]

Static: Behes heart gives 30 Cast speed, 15% lowered cooldowns and lots of health and reg....

laserblade: Yes ofcourse it is, this is much cheaper and the main benefit is the cast speed not the armor and mana aura

[Blyth]

Please give me more feedback so I can improve it! I do feel the aura is a bit to much like Nome's wisdom so any suggestion on changes to that would be awesome!

[Blyth]

More comments plz : >

[Blyth]

Comments on the new changes?

Im thinking maybe to up the price on the recipe from 200 to 500 again, so the total cost would be 1950...

[Blyth]

buuump

[Blyth]

more votes

[Skyve]

I don't really like pickled brain on the item. Generally, Int would be more useful, since it's an item for mainly int heroes, other heroes would probably get sorcerer's ring over this.

Maybe add Major Totem, so it gives all stats and Major Totem gets more use. Actually you could even add 2 Major Totems (together they cost 1080 gold).

[Blyth]

y maybe, although mana is always needed :p major totem doesn't rly fit in, but maybe that doesn't matter so much, and this has int on it too... Its possible to just add some str and agi like it is, codex for example has no components with agi or str but still you get 3 each

[ma5]

No survivability.

Negligible effect (cast speed sucks).

Who would want this?

[Blyth]

lots of heroes with stuns, the effect is kinda big, try pyro, + it adds more than castspeed, int, mana and reg too
But yee maybe it needs some survivability

[Blaky039]

Too expensive for what it does, and also the items are too much Int oriented, maybe Glowstone instead of pickled brain and reducing 200 from the recipe??? dunno.

Holding my vote.

[Blyth]

There, removed some mana and reg, and replaced it with some str/agility, also gave it some evasion for surivability. Now it should be less int oriented, what do you think?

[Blyth]

buump

[Blyth]

any feedback? ;o

[babsa_90]

am i the only one who thinks that the 15% evasion is too good for the cost? if you wan to give them evasion then put in the void talisman in the recipe (more stats too).

[Blyth]

I don't think 15% is too much :/ Snake braclet is the only item that gives evasion, it's abit cheaper but gives 10% more. That's only purchased when you're getting a wingbow, which is a agi-carry item, this is more of a int-ganker item :p Heroes getting this item would rarely go for a wingbow and vice versa, what I mean is that evasion is not as good on ints as on agility, hence not that powerful as it might seem to be...., and remember evasion doesn't stack so even if you got this on a carry you would still want to get wingbow.

Also there is almost no item's with evasion, snake braclet and wingbow is pretty linear, so another option would be great :p

[Splittergal]

the 15% is way over the top imo!

U get sooo much other stuff than the evasion snake braclet gives ya, and they are near same cost.

So lets say 25% evasion cost 1800 gold so 15% evasion would cost around 1080 gold.

Then U get:
+8int
+4str
+4agi
+250 mana
+25 cast speed

for less than 900gold.... aint much items that gives that much fun and games for such a lil amount of money and only takes up 1 slot.(none actualy, just +250 mana is 1K gold)

So either is this item 2 powerful for the money or evasion is way to expensive? either way the amount of different stats on this item makes it an rly good alternative to a bracer if U need mana and cast speed. And if your against a team of non nukers, the evasion will be IMBA OP!

Conclusion:
The item as it is atm, is OP, it gives way to much compared to the price. If you remove the evasion, then it will become worthless as it dont rly give any important abilities or is focused at something.
IMO make the +cast speed AOE and insted of recipe make it a snakebraclet.

+6 INT
+4 STR
+4 AGI
+250 MANA
+25 cast speed in 700 AOE
+25% evasion
cost: 3.25K

[Blyth]

I dunno, wingbow is like only gotten lategame on your carry that just sits and takes lots of autoattacks, this item would go on more squishy heroes that tend to go down on spells mostly, making 15% evasion not that good as it might cut out to be, squishy heroes rly needs more survivability lategame anyway and wingbow is rarely an option so I think this is pretty good, but maybe you could just up the price on the recipe a bit

[Blyth]

Upped the price abit, I think it's okay now

[Static]

This doesn't even make sense. You put an item that gives you int with an item that gives you mana...

and it gives you all stats, cast speed, and evasion?

Not to mention, that's a really OP item in the first place. If you added a talisman of evasion and bumped the evasion on the item to 25%, and changed the robe of int to a major totem, that recipe would make sense.

[Blyth]

It does make sense! The recipe is a reaction recipe, so it gives you evasion(reaction=you can evade stuff) and cast speed(reaction=faster thinking), its totally logical ffs. And there are other items that gives you stats out of the blue too, like codex, so it shouldn't be a big deal ;o

So all that comes from the recipe, and it does make sense.

[FSUHookahMan]

Absolutely genius idea, I like the idea of having multiple boots to choose from, could change the metagame a lot.

[Blyth]

wutt

[Blyth]

Everyone seemed to think that 15% evasion was too much for the price, so I made it 12 instead and it's a bit more expensive than at first, too OP now?

[H_Mantis]

Moar cast speed!

[Blyth]

:p It feels asif everyone hates your suggestion ;o But then it's still over 85% that likes it, maybe because only the ones that vote no comments :D But how do you like it now? Any suggestions, comments? A lot more useful than just a no.

[nikoPSK]

Always thought there should be some item with castspeed, t-up!

[Blyth]

bump, more feedback!

[GGreenBass]

700 gold gives you:

+4 Strength
+4 Agility
+25 Cast Speed
12% Evasion

...the pickled brain costs more and doesn't give you that much. the Robe costs a little more than half of that and it doesn't give you NEARLY that much. Want to balance this item?

+5 AGI
+25 Cast Speed
+5% Movement Speed (optional)

[Blyth]

That's the thing with all recipes :p Combining the items gives you a much stronger one with lots of bonuses for a relatively small price :p

If u use that logic, look at nomes wisdom, for only 260 gold you get 25% of your mana spent as health, but that's really not the case, you got to look at the price as a whole

[Blyth]

bump

[Blyth]

bump

[Blyth]

bump

[Clovis]

1st. I don't agree that intellect heroes should get evasion, and the combination of evasion and cast speed is ??
2nd. The amount of wierd stuff get from the recipe is strange. its +4 to all stats, 12% evasion and 25 cast speed for 700g. You say numbers are no object but to make it make sense it would need to cast at least 500g more.

Basically this item makes no sense to me, I cant see a situation where it would be more usefull than other similar items

[Blyth]

Well INT heroes definitely needs some survivability, especially late game from carries that take em out in a matter of seconds, so evasion would be the best way to go.

Secondly, you can't say that it's the recipe that stands for all the bonus stuff, look at Nome's wisdom, do you really get 25% of mana into health, an extra +0.35 and +1 armor aura for Just 260 gold???? No you don't, it's just the recipe that combines the ingredients to make it more powerful, not the recipe that "adds it" for a small amount.

[Blyth]

bump

[logosloki]

There is a suggestion in the popular suggestions for a cast speed gloves basic item (think it was 600g).

I would also chuck in a major totem and drop the recipe price personally, to draw an obvious conclusion where the +str and +agi comes from (plus give major totem more love).

I like the evasion though, a slight amount of evasion for casters is always welcome.

[Abstrakten]

Why should a mana item and an int item give you str and agi and evasion? like the idea but the recipe doesn't quite make sense.

[Conqel]

I guess the agi and str boost is gained by the recipe itself. Great idea, think Panda activating this before ulti'ng. Beautiful sight indeed.

[Mani4C]

I like the item. Would you consider changing the robe of 450 to the talisman of exile 485?

Since most heroes would get a talisman early game they'd have something to turn it into.

It would also explain the 4+ agi and str on the item.

But i can't see how putting a talisman together with a brain making a robe.

[Pineapple]

cast speed should definately be added to items.. but i think it should be a basic item (component) like glove.. dont think anyone would buy this item for just +25 cast speed.. and the int and the mana can u get by other items.. increase the cast speed so ppl would buy this item and decrease some of the other gains.

[Draptok]

Recipe gives too much in the way of stats right now. Add a major totem and I'd buy this on Pyro any day :D

[Dr`Delicious]

Love this. Some tweaks though probably.

[Otolia]

Passive Bonuses
+8 Intellect
+4 Strength
+4 Agility
+250 Max Mana
+25 Cast Speed
12% Evasion





The item needed doesn't provide agi nor str. So all of these shouldn't be here. Plus you put 12% evasion for a 2,2k item. Overpowered way too much, remember Wingbow is only 30% and it is awful to farm for it.




Cast speed is good anyway.

O
Interessting concept, but I don't understand why you put those stats and the evasion. Reduce the cost, and delete these stats&evasion and we are good. Until then, a big NO !

[FuzioN]

that kind of evasion for that prize + those stats... op and to cheap either remove evasion or add money cost by around 1k.

Other than that good item.

[Blyth]

The item needed doesn't provide agi nor str. So all of these shouldn't be here. Plus you put 12% evasion for a 2,2k item. Overpowered way too much, remember Wingbow is only 30% and it is awful to farm for it.




Cast speed is good anyway.

O
Interessting concept, but I don't understand why you put those stats and the evasion. Reduce the cost, and delete these stats&evasion and we are good. Until then, a big NO !

I've stated many times that you can still get extra str/agi even if none of the components have them and there is already items that do so. By your logic a snake bracelet would be ridiculously OP because it gives 25% evasion for 1.8k while my item provdes half of that for a higher price, + some stats and cast speed.

As to why the evasion is there, it's because this item would be most beneficial for squishy int heroes that turns into mincemeat late-game, this gives them some survivability while also providing other stuff that boosts DPS, and it's a Robe of Reaction... evasion is perfectly logical!

This has pretty much been what everyones been saying throughout the thread, that it's OP because wingbow blablabla, but please read through and reflect before providing "feedback"

[Duey]

The only reason I voted no was due to the castspeed increase being as high as it is.

I've come to realize that cast speed on a cheap item would be VERY VERY powerful, and should be reserved for higher costing items.

Personally I think this item should be around 10-15 castspeed, then it will be fine.

[Blyth]

Since cast speed doesn't stack and the difference isn't that big what turns it really powerful?

[Gorb]

So for 700 gold you're getting +4 Int, +4 Str and +4 Agi, as well as 12% evasion, +25 cast speed and two items combined into a single slot.

Either increase the cost of the recipe a lot, make it require another item or tone down the bonuses. Gives way too many benefits for it's cost currently, regardless of your justifications.

[pineappledan]

imho the recipe gives too many bonuses for its relatively low price:
+25 cast speed
+4 str
+4 agi
+2 int
+12% evasion

all for only 700 gold? for perspective, it's 2 int short of a major totem, and gives an evasion rating 1/2 as good as a 1800 gold item. In addition you have the +cast speed as well

I would add a major totem to the ingredients and make the int gain +10 instead of +8, and reduce cost of recipe to 500-600g
So you'd pay 500-600g for +12% evasion and +25 cast speed

[Corn]

I like how HoN doesnt mess with cast speed. It makes things more predictable unlike LoL. I think there is a reason you need a Beh Heart to start getting into cast speed. If cast speed gets boosted earlier in the game it will just make things way to crazy with people like pyro.

[Blyth]

Honestly the difference wouldn't be that big, and secondly pyro gets into castspeed with his 3rd skill :p

[Gorb]

Frenzy from Blacksmith also gives you castspeed IIRC.

[Blyth]

bump