Would you consider Games, Art?

[LolMaliken]

In This Article (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27133/The_Art_History_Of_Games_Games_As_Art_May_Be_A_Los t_Cause.php#comments)certain people that are apparently game develpoers themselves (of the ever so infamous deer MMO) consider games NOT art in any fashion or turn of the phrase comprehensible AND also consider games a waste of time.

How people become game developers just to consider games a waste of time baffles me but I'd like to know everyones opinion on games, art, any combination of the two or anything inspired by my slight rant.

[whistle]

Spend enough time debugging a game and it sure as hell won't feel like art

[Pyrate]

most of the world thinks art is stupid, so it doesnt really matter. I mean seriously, a piece of canvas painted entirely in white paint was sold for $18k a few years back, thats not art, thats just practising for painting a house.

If you can call that art, you can call making video games art

[VWoolfShirt]

just because YOUR games are not art does not imply that all games are not art

[Evil_Coral]

Everything's a waste of time anyway, at least games are fun. Well some games. I still don't get HoN =|

[whistle]

Pick hero, buy items, kill creeps, kill players, buy more items, kill more players, kill base

[TheReaper]

I'm not a game developer, but I am a graphic designer, and I do know how games are made, and I can also model, texture and could hold my own in a game developing company.

I just didn't get the chance to do it so far.

Maybe they don't think its art because they work on MMO's, games that are always generic in nature, and bring little innovation to the table. But from my own experience, painting a texture for a detailed game character that has a good background story, and great depth is nothing short of art.

Just as writing is an art, creating a story or even an entire game world is art, just as painting is art, bringing a character you worked on for 2 months to make it perfect is art.

They're just either to young to remember good games of the past (where storyline actually played a part, and difficulty was, well difficult), or are just people that ended up being a developer by chance and not desire. If you don't like what you do, you will never look up to it.


EDIT: games ARE a waste of time, that doesn't mean games aren't art. A painting is a waste of time, you just look at it after its finished, but its still beautiful, and a game can be beautiful to.

Btw, meet Caleb. You're gonna need a mop and a bucket when he's done with you.
http://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.png

Baddest ***** that ever walked the earth.


tl;dr Caleb.

[Ethereal_Int]

In This Article (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27133/The_Art_History_Of_Games_Games_As_Art_May_Be_A_Los t_Cause.php#comments)certain people that are apparently game develpoers themselves (of the ever so infamous deer MMO) consider games NOT art in any fashion or turn of the phrase comprehensible AND also consider games a waste of time.

How people become game developers just to consider games a waste of time baffles me but I'd like to know everyones opinion on games, art, any combination of the two or anything inspired by my slight rant.
What is the infamous deer mmo? Can you put a link or something - sounds lulzy. Also, I do consider games an art form just like movies are considered an art form. They have pretty complex story-lines, wonderful worlds and effects, so why should they be any less of an art form compared to movies. The fact that they are a waste of time applies to nearly any activity that is fun - movies, music, and any other art form included (unless you go pro in whichever of these, but that applies to games too)
Also there is a subsection of the gaming market dedicated to casual games - games that are made to do exactly that - relax and waste time.

Spend enough time debugging a game and it sure as hell won't feel like art
This pretty much covers why the developers may feel games are not art.

most of the world thinks art is stupid, so it doesnt really matter. I mean seriously, a piece of canvas painted entirely in white paint was sold for $18k a few years back, thats not art, thats just practising for painting a house.

If you can call that art, you can call making video games art
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I had shitloads of cash pouring in from everywhere I would probably buy some crazy art too - like asking Bali (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=16913)- the guy who originally got the blacksmith bug to draw a blacksmith face with his probably low skills and calling it abstract art due to it's low quality.

[LolMaliken]

What is the infamous deer mmo? Can you put a link or something - sounds lulzy. Also, I do consider games an art form just like movies are considered an art form. They have pretty complex story-lines, wonderful worlds and effects, so why should they be any less of an art form compared to movies. The fact that they are a waste of time applies to nearly any activity that is fun - movies, music, and any other art form included (unless you go pro in whichever of these, but that applies to games too)
Also there is a subsection of the gaming market dedicated to casual games - games that are made to do exactly that - relax and waste time.

This pretty much covers why the developers may feel games are not art.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I had shitloads of cash pouring in from everywhere I would probably buy some crazy art too - like asking Bali (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/member.php?u=16913)- the guy who originally got the blacksmith bug to draw a blacksmith face with his probably low skills and calling it abstract art due to it's low quality.
this is the deer mmo (http://tale-of-tales.com/TheEndlessForest/)

its not so much a game as it is you walking around as deer for no reason... and its ownd by kids spamming the moan sound to have "deer cyber".

as far as how THESE guys are saying games arent art? they say anything defined by rules or stipulations inherently cannot be art, so they develop "un-games" to be able to still develop but make art. right there their logic is flawed because no matter what you're GOING to have rules in a game even if its as simple as a movement speed cap, min. a ground and roof, some sort of physics engine, theres always room for creativity THEREFOR always room for artistic expression THEREFOR room for art.

I think these guys are full of **** and trying to make themselves stand out by trolling the conference they went to and saying "lol games arent art and a complete wastre of time" i mean srsly, who goes to a game conference and says that?

[Ethereal_Int]

this is the deer mmo (http://tale-of-tales.com/TheEndlessForest/)

its not so much a game as it is you walking around as deer for no reason... and its ownd by kids spamming the moan sound to have "deer cyber".

What the hell! Did that deer have a human face? Oh gawd that's beyond twisted. Not art - art is supposed to be beautiful, but this is just wrong!


as far as how THESE guys are saying games arent art? they say anything defined by rules or stipulations inherently cannot be art, so they develop "un-games" to be able to still develop but make art. right there their logic is flawed because no matter what you're GOING to have rules in a game even if its as simple as a movement speed cap, min. a ground and roof, some sort of physics engine, theres always room for creativity THEREFOR always room for artistic expression THEREFOR room for art.

Hmmm, they haven't heard of pixel art and chiptune music then, two art genres defined by rules. Anyway there is nothing in this world (or any virtual one) that's free of rules, nothing.


I think these guys are full of **** and trying to make themselves stand out by trolling the conference they went to and saying "lol games arent art and a complete wastre of time" i mean srsly, who goes to a game conference and says that?
And if normal games are a waste of time then what the hell do you call the deer mmo? Waste of brain cells maybe. God, they go to a gaming conference and expect people to play un-games? Un-games like that one are some sort of cruel experiment that's supposed to be closer to art then games, but it's worse than art, and worse than gaming. It is pure and utter fail. I mean, it's on about the same level as screen-savers, and honestly, when is the last time you used a screen-saver?

[Narfle]

http://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.png



Oh hi, giant spiderthing cocooned my loved one, i better drink her digested insides, okty?

"Oh thank you, you saved us from the evil one!

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW"

Yes, games are clearly art, but i really cba to write 800 words explaining why, especially considering this forum. So i'll write simply one.

Morrowind.

tldr: caleb

[Narfle]

Not art - art is supposed to be beautiful

Double post nessecary to illustrate stupidity.

(my comment in this post is art)

[TheReaper]

Oh hi, giant spiderthing cocooned my loved one, i better drink her digested insides, okty?

"Oh thank you, you saved us from the evil one!

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW"

Yes, games are clearly art, but i really cba to write 800 words explaining why, especially considering this forum. So i'll write simply one.

Morrowind.

tldr: caleb


yes, PEW PEW PEW, but with class, and artsie, and Caleb. Caleb, if I was a woman...

Morrowind aswell, I lost so much time just looking at that game.

I guess you can call most of the games today no-art. But there are still some exceptions, like movies. You can't call a summer blockbuster art, but you sure can call Silence of the lambs as an ex. a work of art.

Ah... Clarice... and Caleb.

http://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.pnghttp://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.pnghttp://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.png

[Narfle]

Ah... Clarice... and Caleb.

http://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.pnghttp://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.pnghttp://blood.wiki-site.com/images/4/4c/Caleb-moon.png

My god, that move needs to be made asap.

Even if Uwe Boll made it, it would still be awesome.

"And then... The lambs went silent...

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW"

EDIT: Everything in Blood was ultra awesome. I went around screaming "Jojo? JOJO! I WANT JOJO!" for weeks.

Ah, if only i had a real life idiot circus boy. For now, this foram will have to do.

[Surger]

Art is human expression.

Nature is not art.
Human development is not art.
Human Industry is not art.

Pretty pictures are not necessarily art.
Little diddies are not necessarily art.
TV shows are not necessarily art.
Puzzle games are not necessarily art.

Art is created by humans to express emotion. It relays a feeling, with good art you should get a profound understanding of the emotions and conditions the artist is trying to convey.

Art is not about an action it's about expression. Most major titles are certainly not art. Mario Kart is not art. Art should make you feel and open up a window to another plane of existence.

Remember: Talented Person != Artist.

There must be expression in the work in order to be artistic.

Edit: Art is not beauty art is expression and emotion. It may invoke the feeling of awe at beauty but something disturbing and ugly can be artistic

[Ethereal_Int]

Double post nessecary to illustrate stupidity.

(my comment in this post is art)


Edit: Art is not beauty art is expression and emotion. It may invoke the feeling of awe at beauty but something disturbing and ugly can be artistic
Maybe art in that respect. But that deer/human hybrid was just too much wtf for something that is marketed as artistic in terms of images of nature and forests, rather than something posted on /b/ as artistic.

[Narfle]

Ethereal, once you learn something about the subject, and maybe grow a little bit older, you'll see the error of your ways.

just because something is very wtf doesnt exclude it from being art. Case in point, andyman.

Also, i disagree with virtually everything posted in this thread (caleb being excluded obviously) and in some way, that makes this thread art. Because it makes people think (a tiny bit).

Anyhow, i read the article that was in OP and its clear its a troll article. Majorly ****ing stupid **** going on there.

A clever troll, sure, but still merely a troll.

tldr: troll + art isnt just about expression, its also about provoking thought.

[Ethereal_Int]

Ethereal, once you learn something about the subject, and maybe grow a little bit older, you'll see the error of your ways.

just because something is very wtf doesnt exclude it from being art. Case in point, andyman.

Also, i disagree with virtually everything posted in this thread (caleb being excluded obviously) and in some way, that makes this thread art. Because it makes people think (a tiny bit).

Anyhow, i read the article that was in OP and its clear its a troll article. Majorly ****ing stupid **** going on there.

A clever troll, sure, but still merely a troll.

tldr: troll + art isnt just about expression, its also about provoking thought.
K, this time I back down.

[Juular]

In This Article (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27133/The_Art_History_Of_Games_Games_As_Art_May_Be_A_Los t_Cause.php#comments)certain people that are apparently game develpoers themselves (of the ever so infamous deer MMO) consider games NOT art in any fashion or turn of the phrase comprehensible AND also consider games a waste of time.

How people become game developers just to consider games a waste of time baffles me but I'd like to know everyones opinion on games, art, any combination of the two or anything inspired by my slight rant.


Games are a waste of time, but in a sense, so is art - they're both forms of enjoyment, but in the long run don't really contribute as much to societal advancement, with the exception of mentally (and in an indirect way, economically).

That being said, I definitely do think some games are made to be artistic (Eufloria is a great example), and they do a great job - some games (99% of shooters) are just meant for mindless enjoyment.

Neither of these is really a "bad" thing - our goal as human beings is to be happy, and if we're having fun, we tend to be happy.

[Narfle]

Games are a waste of time, but in a sense, so is art - they're both forms of enjoyment, but in the long run don't really contribute as much to societal advancement, with the exception of mentally (and in an indirect way, economically).

See kids?

This is what happens when you post without thinking.

This is your brain ODing on crack and acid at the same time.

Posting without thinking isnt cool kids, dont do it.

Download the Promise Plugin now.

[Kelebek]

You can throw something on the floor and it's art, but a game can't be?

Art is about creativity. With games you have a blank slate, and you put your creativity into coding, along with all the modelling, texturing, sounds. All to create, for example, a whole expansive, enthralling world, from nothing. How is that not art? I spend a damn lot more time playing any game than I do looking at a painting.

Games are art in the exact same way films, music and even city building are imo.

[Cheeseburger]

Vidya games are art to me.

[Narfle]

Okay, so just in case people are reading this thread and dont know what to post, let me help you.

"Art is about [whatever word you like]"

just substitute the relevant parts, and youre good to go, dont worry, you wont be more retarded than most posters in here. Virtually nobody knows anything about the subject anyway, so just use whatever word you like.

Ill begin.

Art is about rice.

I could also have gone with

Art is about wifi.

You get the point, now you go make a good post! No knowlegde nessecary, just post post and post.

[VWoolfShirt]

LD50 of acid is at least 120 tabs, more depending on concentration

and it would make it p hard to post

[PROc]

Art is meant to surve no other purpose other than being art. Games have other purposes other than looking nice.

[Ularg]

Music does more than just sound nice, yet it is still an art.

If you wish to be broad, I would say that the creation of anything with a sense of free direction (within a scope) can and will be art.

[LolMaliken]

im confused, are you agreeing with me foofoo? or just saying everything present is a crock of crap?

[VWoolfShirt]

Art is meant to surve no other purpose other than being art. Games have other purposes other than looking nice.

art being useful for something does not invalidate it as art

it merely extends the metaphysical experience

[Ularg]

Games ARE an art. It is a creation of something that starts soley from an idea, a concept. Something that grows and is nurtured by it's artists, or in this case, game developers.

Now it doesn't particularly pertain to just the art of the game. To truly bring a painting to life you must have the outline, you must have the base layers, then shadows and more over (I can't paint for crap so please just go along with my analogy). Now you have the concept artists that lays out the idea, or framework, a shot of what they want. Then you have the modelers who make these things inside the game, and then you have the animators give these things life, either it's just a tree swaying or a character doing a backflip. After that you have sounds like the ruffle of grass under your feet or an orchestra playing to your epic adventure. All these things and more are elements of what make a game art. Each game is different in it's own way, either by art or how you interact with it.

And please, any game developer that says "Making games is a waste of time" is not a game developer by any standard. He is just the kid who throws paint on a canvas and calls art "easy"

[Narfle]

im confused, are you agreeing with me foofoo? or just saying everything present is a crock of crap?

Im pretty much agreeing with you on the topic of the article.

Then im also emo-crying about how stupid people are in this thread as well.

------------

To almost all posts after my recipe for posting in this thread:

Good job guys, you didnt quite nail it yet, but youre showing good effort.

[LolMaliken]

well than we are on the same page. <3 foofoo

[Narfle]

Its also a bit silly that they got taken seriously, considering their portfolio.

"Hi, we make games as artful as possible, and go to extreme lenghts to do so. Btw, games are not art."

Cool games they make tho, although i have only played the Little Red Riding Hood one, i still enjoyed it very much. It made me -feel- and had nice immersion.

But i enjoy just about anytime someone tries to do innovative stuff.

[LolMaliken]

my favorite little "kids" game to this day (thats recently made) is still plants vs zombies. im doin another play through again, heh

[Ularg]

Obviously some of these kids really needs to not be able to speak, they just embarrass the rest of us.

[Jayschwa]

Asking if games are art is like asking if nudity is art. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it's just gratuitous, hardcore f---ing.

[magnakaser]

Depends on the game. Flower? That's art. ****ing awesome art.

[Narfle]

Hell, you could even consider Spore art.

Or Postal.

Was UO art for being the first true MMORPG? In some way, yeah. (im mainly saying this to be able to call EA art-bashers). So EA are art-bashers, what dicks.

Does a game have to look artsy to be art? Hell no. Traditional art doesnt even have to look artsy to be art.

But heres a good idea to root out some dumbasses, lets all start naming games we think are art.

[Ularg]

Shadow of the Colossus anyone?

[Narfle]

Is that the console game where you fight gigantic creatures by attacking pressure points?

Its cool, no doubt about it, but i fail to see why its art. Your enemies are much bigger? Doesnt make it art.

Hella pretty game tho, ill give you that.

If im way out of line, just let me know, i never played it myself, only watched a friend play it and only for like 4 hours so he could show it to me.

Cool and pretty, but from what i could see, not art.

EDIT: Wikipedia pretty much says its art. Why the **** is it art? Enlighten me prease. And in another way than saying "its soooooo pretty".

[Ularg]

It's because the gameplay was so simple, but the visuals and the settings were stunning. You were a small person against impossible odds, watching the largest beings fly passed and around you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKec85onNw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7GByRPN-E4&feature=channel

It was going through huge terrain to find this giant infront of you, even with the limitations of the consoles at the time.

[Narfle]

It's because the gameplay was so simple, but the visuals and the settings were stunning.

You realize you just described just about any car racing game (or sports game) ever made, right? A genre I hope we can agree on not being art, unless they change it radically or add other stuff which would then be the reason the particular game could be considered art.

And dont you go find some really old car/sports game and say "omg visuals not good hier!" because they were for the time it was released in, and i said "just about any" anyway, not "all".


You were a small person against impossible odds, watching the largest beings fly passed and around you.

Although the odds werent really that impossible, now were they? Your 2nd vid linked to the 13th boss the player would fight and it didnt even fight back. I really wouldnt call that "impossible odds". Sure, you might see something big and think "ohnos is gonna smax me", but then you remember its a game and games are supposed to be somewhat balanced and you sigh a breath of relief. Then you get to the 13th monster whom doesnt fight back when you kill it and you go "WTF! And i thought there would be impossible odds because they so big!".

The enviorement was cool though, i defenitly agree with you on that one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dKec85onNw

Im not disputing that we can consider Concept Art art. Its sorta in its name.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7GByRPN-E4&feature=channel

Wouldnt that battle had been more epic if the monster had... yknow.. fought back? It didnt even really take any actual evasive manouvers untill the player had removed like 70% of its health. Kinda weak dude, kinda weak.


It was going through huge terrain to find this giant infront of you, even with the limitations of the consoles at the time.

Limitations for consoles in oct 2005? Which 'limitations' are you talking about that we dont see nowadays? Wii excluded obviously.

I dunno man, i still dont see the argument for it being considered art. The strongest argument for it is still "omg so pretties", but that doesnt really qualify anyway.

Not trying to dog on your game brah, just trying to debate games as art. I love my fellow OTers, just like any other Son of Heaven.

[Surger]

It's not about a game being pretty.
It's not about a good sound track

Art is not related to talent. It just happens people who are artistic and talented make the best artists.

You can draw incredibly well and never produce something the epitome of artistic.

Art in general is about evoking emotion. Making the observer feel a feeling. Think thoughts. Art expands the human experience whether it be good or bad you meta-physically are a more rounded person for experiencing art. Not all people can appreciate or understand art.

Ergo art is not confined to a medium. A medium is a vessel for the message (while also being the message), art can be found anywhere but it needs to enhance the human experience to be just more than pictures and sounds.

Thats why art can get so messed up. Performance art is a good example how art is anything. It's not about the actions it's about the thoughts and feelings they provoke.

[Narfle]

Ergo art is not confined to a medium. A medium is a vessel for the message (while also being the message), art can be found anywhere but it needs to enhance the human experience to be just more than pictures and sounds.

Smartest thing said in this thread.


It's not about the actions it's about the thoughts and feelings they provoke.

Second smartest thing said in this thread.

[Ularg]

You realize you just described just about any car racing game (or sports game) ever made, right? A genre I hope we can agree on not being art, unless they change it radically or add other stuff which would then be the reason the particular game could be considered art.

And dont you go find some really old car/sports game and say "omg visuals not good hier!" because they were for the time it was released in, and i said "just about any" anyway, not "all".



Although the odds werent really that impossible, now were they? Your 2nd vid linked to the 13th boss the player would fight and it didnt even fight back. I really wouldnt call that "impossible odds". Sure, you might see something big and think "ohnos is gonna smax me", but then you remember its a game and games are supposed to be somewhat balanced and you sigh a breath of relief. Then you get to the 13th monster whom doesnt fight back when you kill it and you go "WTF! And i thought there would be impossible odds because they so big!".

The enviorement was cool though, i defenitly agree with you on that one.



Im not disputing that we can consider Concept Art art. Its sorta in its name.



Wouldnt that battle had been more epic if the monster had... yknow.. fought back? It didnt even really take any actual evasive manouvers untill the player had removed like 70% of its health. Kinda weak dude, kinda weak.



Limitations for consoles in oct 2005? Which 'limitations' are you talking about that we dont see nowadays? Wii excluded obviously.

I dunno man, i still dont see the argument for it being considered art. The strongest argument for it is still "omg so pretties", but that doesnt really qualify anyway.

Not trying to dog on your game brah, just trying to debate games as art. I love my fellow OTers, just like any other Son of Heaven.

Well for one it's a PS2 game, and it had it's own limitations there. And the monsters ARE fighting back, they are constantly trying to shake you off, and in some cases try and crush you. In that fight you had to garb on to shoot arrows under it's belly (Mind you, this is a video edited to look the best, not including the amount of trial and error that went into learning the fight for the first time) then riding along side it and jumping onto it's wings, and climbing on its back to take it down.

And maybe I'm not the best at wording something to seem dramatic or all powerful, but you were literally an ant to these things, who didn't expect you to be any threat, but you took each one of these things down, be they evil or not, to bring your love back to life. And if you look through the story, you can see what I mean by that.

Art of a video game isn't confined to one aspect, it's about each individual aspect, and each one of them working together, and in both instances it can be a beautiful piece of work or a "meh" moment.

And my comment about it being simple but beautiful, it wasn't just confined to the graphics. You can look at a painting of a lighthouse, something that seems so simple and mundane, yet seems so beautiful because of how the creator wished to present it.

And be mindful that with sports games you have EA, and EA has no soul, which is used to create art. Ontop of that they market those games to their respected demographics, which wouldn't give a damn about it, they were only out to make money. Sure there are always exceptions, but it's a glaring bit of information.

[Dederd]

hurrrrrrrrrrrrr (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElcOkz3LYSI)

[Narfle]

Well for one it's a PS2 game, and it had it's own limitations there. And the monsters ARE fighting back, they are constantly trying to shake you off, and in some cases try and crush you. In that fight you had to garb on to shoot arrows under it's belly (Mind you, this is a video edited to look the best, not including the amount of trial and error that went into learning the fight for the first time) then riding along side it and jumping onto it's wings, and climbing on its back to take it down.

And maybe I'm not the best at wording something to seem dramatic or all powerful, but you were literally an ant to these things, who didn't expect you to be any threat, but you took each one of these things down, be they evil or not, to bring your love back to life. And if you look through the story, you can see what I mean by that.

Yeah my friend showed me the love interest aspect of the story and its all very pretty and all, in the classic way, he will destroy himself to save the love of his life, its been done before, but its still a good story, and they make it work.

I also like the aspect of the giants not nessecarily being evil, but still has to die because that is the quest he has been given.

And i do understand the whole "the puny humie is irrelevant to me, i mega big", but once the player has yoinked 70% of its life, it really should take more drastic measures. Thats the only "realism" issue i'll adress, it would be a pure waste of time to debate the aerodynamics of it flying so slowly while being so big, and also completely irrelevant. But it is still a living creature, so i would like to see it fight for its life, and once 50%+ HP has been removed, it should be quite aware of that it is in fact fighting for its life. Im starting to feel a bit goofy basing it on a single fight though.

I guess i would just have liked to see some giant smashes directed in the players direction, that he would then have to dodge, but i have a notion that this very concept is present in other boss fights.

Oh, and the fact that every single enemy you fight is a boss, is also awesome and innovative. Theyre so big they should have mana bars!


Art of a video game isn't confined to one aspect, it's about each individual aspect, and each one of them working together, and in both instances it can be a beautiful piece of work or a "meh" moment.

And my comment about it being simple but beautiful, it wasn't just confined to the graphics. You can look at a painting of a lighthouse, something that seems so simple and mundane, yet seems so beautiful because of how the creator wished to present it.

I agree wholeheartedly, achieving the status of art is about execution and some pieces will be art to some people, while not being art to other people.


And be mindful that with sports games you have EA, and EA has no soul, which is used to create art.

Hohohoho i feel good about that friend request i sent you 5 minutes ago.

EA has destroyed way too many gaming related things that were dear to me. One is too many, but they didnt stop there.

Killing UO and killing Hitman (IO Interactive being the first game studio we danes could actually be proud of), Narfle was not amused. Hitman was never supposed to have any sequels, but EA likes money so, you know.

And im sure EA has killed lots of other worthwhile material, im still waiting to see how they will deface the Battlefield series.

[Ularg]

I am in the BF:BC2 beta, I am not impressed, but I cant seem to find a game that has the full amount of people to fight with.

[Narfle]

The "newest" one ive played is BF2, and that ended up turning me onto the fanmade mod called Project Reality, which is actually quite interesting. The objective of the mod is to make BF2 as realistic as possible. This means that if you get shot, you will eventually bleed to death, unless your wound is tended to.

If you have a knife, you can puncture supply trucks tires and all that stuff.

And its majorly interesting trying to pilot an attack heli in it.

In general, whatever focus vanilla BF2 had on teamplay has been taken to the most hardcore extremes in Project Reality. If youre not willing to play with your team, you will get -nothing- from playing the game.

I liked playing the pilot class, for example, and flying squads to the sector they wanted to be dropped off in, with a transport heli. The pilot is the only class with a parachute btw, so you have to actually land to drop them off, and you better be -real- careful when landing or you will have 6 guys screaming at you for killing them.

Or i could give the example of someone playing the spec ops class and using their binoculars to place a laser target on an enemy facility, then the guy with the pilot class inside the bomber plane who is already in the air flies over the area and delivers his bomb (he has several different bombs to chose from, naturally) entirely based on the spec ops guys laser targetting.

People take it quite seriously, but sometimes thats funny also. Every role is relevant (if the engineer class doesnt repair the runway after the enemy bombed it, nobody lands or takes off) and everyone is needed. People are generally really nice there also, which conflicts with the amount of srs bsns, but i guess theres little gems like that all over the innernets.

Oh yeah, and NO CROSSHAIRS. And respawn time is 15 minutes if you kill yourself, and an attack heli respawns every 30 mins. If someone else kills you, though, or you die by an accident (the system is very good at differentiating between an intentional suicide and an accident) the respawn time is about 40 seconds.

And the maps are huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge. Driving from one end to the other in a supply truck could easily take you 10 mins. Transport heli does it in like 3? though.

Actually, that may be why the people playing that mod are nice people, even despite it being so serious. They are all very patient.

EDIT: A link if it has peeked your curiosity.

http://www.realitymod.com/

Its been quite a while since i played it though, so my information is old.

[Ularg]

I played BF2 on my xbox, I am sad to say that they don't support their servers anymore so that game is useless.

Edit: I'm also a big pilot fan, I love dropping people off in helicopters and being their escape vehicle. Along with that I loves to do hot drops, I have yet to be able to actually experience it, but I love flying the VTOL in crysis wars.

[Narfle]

To avoid further derailment (yes, pilots rools!) i'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmuiwOGi5gA

EDIT: And this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYLVb2FcAas&feature=related

[Soubi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq3bXwVPChQ THE MONA LISA IS BURNING!!!

[Juular]

See kids?

This is what happens when you post without thinking.

This is your brain ODing on crack and acid at the same time.

Posting without thinking isnt cool kids, dont do it.

Download the Promise Plugin now.


Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make me an idiot.

He didn't ask for factual statements from someone with an art degree, or someone in the industry.


I'd like to know everyones opinion on games, art, any combination of the two or anything inspired by my slight rant.

He asked for our opinion, which I gave.

[LolMaliken]

holy piss i was quoted without someone yelling @ ME?! mark the day in the calender plox

[SideKick1]

art to me:
SC/SC BW
Morrowind/Tribunal/Bloodmoon
WC3 RoC/TFT
Oblivion/Knights of the Nine/Shivering Isles
L4D/L4D2

[Megumijk]

holy piss i was quoted without someone yelling @ ME?! mark the day in the calender plox

SHUT UP, JERK!!!1

Better now?

Also: Art is whatever you want it to be. Different people have different ideas and reactions to different forms of art.

For example, I think "modern art" [cans of soup] is a retarded waste of time...Yet I can sit and stare at a Caravaggio for hours.

It's all subjective and all part of what makes art a wonderful thing.

[Narfle]

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make me an idiot.

He didn't ask for factual statements from someone with an art degree, or someone in the industry.



He asked for our opinion, which I gave.

Yeah and your opinion was way stupid. Like waaaaaaaaaay stupid. Incredibly stupid. You know how big jupiter is? Your opinion was dumber than that.

Anyway megumi messaged me about it, and heres the convo.

Narfle: what she lacked in the post i replied to was logical thinking skills and critical reasoning skills
quite important skills regarding her allegded field
"but in the long run don't really contribute as much to societal advancement, with the exception of mentally"
any
societal advancement
is mental originally
any advancement at all ever in the history of forever and utterly ever
began with an idea
its mental
also, dogging something because its meant to "mental" purposes
is just incredibly ignorant
its like saying "oh yeah, anything theoretical isnt worth doing"
again, any actual scientific rule/law started as theory
the ***** is a moron, she needs to die
oh, and saying that art and games dont really contribute in the long run? way to go stupid whore, n1, you excell in the field of not thinking about the implications of events
she obviously dont know the history of the computer, for example
games are what drives the computer technology forward, or at least it were for QUITE A WHILE
shes just.. incredilbly stupid
in so many ways
megumi: yeah, now it's an industry again

Narfle: in that post
well yeah its an industry but theres also cool stuff in it
and computing technology is starting to breach into other industries also and all that
and will eventually take them over


megumi: i;d ay something more along the lines of "i disagree with her opinion becuase it isn't drawn from logical conclussions"
but hey, i'm more diplomatic than you are


Narfle: yeah but i dont have babysitting features in my posting
indeed you are


megumi: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=1043439#post1043439
i'm quite annoyed that noone replied with "Art is a blast" and a picture of that gay blonde guy from naruto


Narfle: oh and the reason i havent commented on the "art is a waste of time" is because i dont feel the need to spam you nonstop for the next 40 minutes about how angry i am that another human being can say somethng that stupid


megumi: http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1GGLS_en-GBGB362GB362&resnum=0&q=Deidara&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi


Narfle: yah i know naruto


megumi: art IS a waste of time. But it's a damn good one.


Narfle: no its not
it makes people think
making people think is never a waste of time
look up george brandes


megumi: Everything is a waste of time unless it's earning money in the minds of these people.
art is massively important to a civilization


Narfle: unfortunatly you have a very good point there


megumi: it's a sign that there IS a civilisation
art is the reminder to the following generations that "we were here"
So it has a MASSIVELY important anthropological and histolrical element
but getting that point accross to the HoN OT boards is mroe effort than i'm willing to invest into them


I kinda like how messy it looks.

"Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make me an idiot."

Yes, thats exactley what it does. But to be fair, you were an idiot way before i disagreed.

Now go sit in your corner with a duncehat and think about what you did.

Yes thats right, i said "think". It wont do you any good, other than mentally. Get it?

[KnightDavion]

Just like television and movies, some games are trash, some are good enough to be considered art. HoN is in the middle I guess.

[LolMaliken]

where did megu go for like a month? and how long of a span was that conversation narfle?

[Narfle]

it was like 10 minutes, and megu didnt go anywhere, i see megu all over my gtalk pretty much on a daily basis, sometimes on idle though.

[The`Fury]

"It's not about the actions it's about the thoughts and feelings they provoke."


Oddly enough, when I think of art, I think of Silent Hill 3. The creation of the environment, the emotions you feel when you see all the darkness, decay and story created by the developers.

Walking through the hospital as it slowly deteriates, giving a rendition of how someone would feel, or how the artist who created the enviroment helps you experience that emotion of fear, disgust!

That game was art. Shadow of the Collosus was art, it just merely had an interactive enviroment to it.

It's sparked up so much debate because videogames hadn't existed years ago, when such paintings as the Mona Lisa, or when the Sistine Chapel was painted. Videogames are simply a -new medium to express art through means of interaction-.

Video games are art, interactive art. There's all different kinds of arts, expressionism, surrealism to name a couple. Interactive is a new medium, and it helps artists further express the emotion of such a creation.

Take for example a zombie, nemesis from R.E. In a picture he was just a ugly guy with a big smile and a gun, but when you play the game and see this art come to life, you crap yourself!. Simply painted on a canvas it's there, sure it looks kinda gross, but imagine if it walked, flailed its arms, body parts and gore flying, exposed bodily organs moving inside. It would send a shiver down your spine (like the game F.E.A.R, remember the little girl? Draw her and she's just a little kid in a red dress, in F.E.A.R she's so much more then a picture).

So to conclude, I personally believe Video Games are an art, just simply a new canvas introduced to everyone.

[Narfle]

"It's not about the actions it's about the thoughts and feelings they provoke."


Oddly enough, when I think of art, I think of Silent Hill 3. The creation of the environment, the emotions you feel when you see all the darkness, decay and story created by the developers.

Walking through the hospital as it slowly deteriates, giving a rendition of how someone would feel, or how the artist who created the enviroment helps you experience that emotion of fear, disgust!

That game was art. Shadow of the Collosus was art, it just merely had an interactive enviroment to it.

It's sparked up so much debate because videogames hadn't existed years ago, when such paintings as the Mona Lisa, or when the Sistine Chapel was painted. Videogames are simply a -new medium to express art through means of interaction-.

Video games are art, interactive art. There's all different kinds of arts, expressionism, surrealism to name a couple. Interactive is a new medium, and it helps artists further express the emotion of such a creation.

Take for example a zombie, nemesis from R.E. In a picture he was just a ugly guy with a big smile and a gun, but when you play the game and see this art come to life, you crap yourself!. Simply painted on a canvas it's there, sure it looks kinda gross, but imagine if it walked, flailed its arms, body parts and gore flying, exposed bodily organs moving inside. It would send a shiver down your spine (like the game F.E.A.R, remember the little girl? Draw her and she's just a little kid in a red dress, in F.E.A.R she's so much more then a picture).

So to conclude, I personally believe Video Games are an art, just simply a new canvas introduced to everyone.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, im not gonna hate on you or anything and as such I wont massively debunk the majority of your post, because you seem worthwhile, but i will say one thing.

There is a very nice word your post could have gained alot by a few instances of, this word is "some", if you want to hear it in a sentence, the one that springs to mind is "SOME videogames are art".

But i'll also just throw in one little honorable mention, not EVERYTHING that makes you feel ANYTHING is art. Being punched in the face isnt art, although it will probably make you feel either angry, sad, hurt, afraid or confused, sometimes even more than one of them at a time.

Just like no picture of v**** can ever be considered art, even if you feel overwhelming amounts of disgust, shame and pity by viewing it.