vVv inhouse game (1700+)

[Testknight]

vVv inhouse game. Lanes for Hellbourne end up contrived due to miscommunication which leads to odd circumstances.

Enjoyable game for me. Not going to spoil much, hate replays that have EPIC COMEBACK OMFG WATCH THIS or people who talk silly amounts of trash.

@25187357

one bot is match id link obv, but dont look or you might spoil it:

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25187357

[ma5]

vvv is bad

[uLSe]

You had nice farm the whole game

[Testknight]

vvv is bad

That makes you even worse Boston.

[AeiOwnedU]

vvv is bad

Damn - Within hours of the post. Insta-flamez! RAWR!

[ma5]

I'm the number one flamer of vVv.

I swear I'm not in the clan.

[kthxkevin]

Pretty enjoyable replay, despite a few noticeable mistakes you played well throughout the game. Mage coulda gotten better items but even then I think you would've outcarried him.

I'd like to see a good mage replay from you, however you don't seem to play him much. Would it be to much to ask for a request? As long as you farm well and it's 1700+; thats all I need.

[Testknight]

Pretty enjoyable replay, despite a few noticeable mistakes you played well throughout the game. Mage coulda gotten better items but even then I think you would've outcarried him.

I'd like to see a good mage replay from you, however you don't seem to play him much. Would it be to much to ask for a request? As long as you farm well and it's 1700+; thats all I need.

I'll see what I can do :mage:. Expect something soon.

[Vesper25]

Is the evasion thing with wingbow still around? Is it because of that you got rewind at level 24?

[Colin_tank]

Is the evasion thing with wingbow still around? Is it because of that you got rewind at level 24?

Kirby just hates rewind. That's all there is too it.

[Testknight]

Kirby just hates rewind. That's all there is too it.

Ya it never proc'd for me before hand AND it was nerfed. Throw in the amazing new time nuke (for farming, mostly) and the HP + Mana of stats is better imo.

Of course to each his own, mathetmatically it is a loose +25% ehp.

[ElementUser]

Too bad your Arachna thought Hardened Carapace dispelled Entangle :(

[Testknight]

Too bad your Arachna thought Hardened Carapace dispelled Entangle :(

Ya he got mad, it was funny how hard everyone was on him (besides the ever-compassionate kirby of course) considering he was solo long lane against dsham + magebane.

[ElementUser]

Yeah well just to let you know, you can cast any spell/item without breaking channeling if you have the following line of code in the spell/item.entity file:


noninterrupting="true"

It happens that Shrunken Head is one of these items

[Testknight]

Yeah well just to let you know, you can cast any spell/item without breaking channeling if you have the following line of code in the spell/item.entity file:


noninterrupting="true"

It happens that Shrunken Head is one of these items

Ooh nice, thanks for that. You're a genius @ the technical side of HoN (as everyone knows).

[Testknight]

Pretty enjoyable replay, despite a few noticeable mistakes you played well throughout the game. Mage coulda gotten better items but even then I think you would've outcarried him.

I'd like to see a good mage replay from you, however you don't seem to play him much. Would it be to much to ask for a request? As long as you farm well and it's 1700+; thats all I need.

Second attempt: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25736991

@25736991

First attempt: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25676987

@25676987

Neither one was terribly satisfying for me, and my Magebane build for second game was a bit off beat due to what I explained as "imitating a baddie to mess with them".

The first was a sorta low rated AP, I couldn't find a higher rated AP at that moment without hitting my ping over 200. Regardless, farm fest, clan mates flock into my pub and make it stupidly easy as dsham versus magebane facrolls an extremely weak dual melee lane. x2 Runed Axe 'cause I was feeling gimmicky. Not a recommended watch.

The second is much better, 1700+ BP no ab. Not a faceroll game, in fact my lane goes quite poor. Watch and see for yourself, I hate spoiling. If you want better I can try a more straight forward game/build where I don't waste blink only to get curse + grip'd in the first 10 seconds of the game.

[kthxkevin]

Second attempt: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25736991

@25736991

First attempt: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25676987

@25676987

Neither one was terribly satisfying for me, and my Magebane build for second game was a bit off beat due to what I explained as "imitating a baddie to mess with them".

The first was a sorta low rated AP, I couldn't find a higher rated AP at that moment without hitting my ping over 200. Regardless, farm fest, clan mates flock into my pub and make it stupidly easy as dsham versus magebane facrolls an extremely weak dual melee lane. x2 Runed Axe 'cause I was feeling gimmicky. Not a recommended watch.

The second is much better, 1700+ BP no ab. Not a faceroll game, in fact my lane goes quite poor. Watch and see for yourself, I hate spoiling. If you want better I can try a more straight forward game/build where I don't waste blink only to get curse + grip'd in the first 10 seconds of the game.
Second game was a good watch due to the tough start and no lanes to farm. What items would you normally have gotten in the second game? Also, do you think there is a certain timelimit where you have to get runed axe in order for it to be effective?

[Testknight]

Second game was a good watch due to the tough start and no lanes to farm. What items would you normally have gotten in the second game? Also, do you think there is a certain timelimit where you have to get runed axe in order for it to be effective?

The devitation between a standard/core build and what I did in the replay basically begins @ Elder Parasite. Elder Parasite is a weak item on Magebane, it does not complement his strengths (1.4 BAT, Blink, farm mobility...) and just makes him even easier to kill when focused down, as you could see in the "lawl teamfight" top when we were genocided nicely.

Probably the most standard Magebane I have ever seen, and the one I try to imitate most closely (mind you I have very few plays of Magebane as you saw) is AngryTestie's.

AngryTestie is the competitive face of the Runed Axe rush, who arguably popularized it through his escapades as Magebane where his farm hit absolutely obscene levels that nobody really expected Magebane to get ("nobody" being the high skill players that are not quite @ testie's level, say...1800+ guys, or rather just any of the observers of the competitive scene).

Anyways not to ramble, the Runed Axe is core on Magebane. This is well known. The GPM increase is absurb so long as you buckle down and never stop farming.

So I would normally have gotten the Runed Axe. I have no idea when the "too late" point is, I personally see the item as core on Magebane and would strive for it every game, even if it will be slow and forced off mostly scraps. The only items that are even really worth getting before Runed Axe are: Hatchet (essential), Power Supply, Iron Shield and maybe Marchers/Steamboots (if you desperately need the HP).

Of course if you were misdrafted and faced against a heavy push/early game domination team you can assume you would not only farm poorly but possibly die and farm very poorly. In this case you would probably need to play more of a gank/teamfight Magebane.

Maybe you could roll with early Hatchet/Treads/Iron/Power Supply, then start working on Frostburn so you can take advantage of the mobility, gank power (slow) and exceptional build up. This is theory, mostly, as I have not played :mage: in a game where I felt my early game assistance beyond basic teamplay (hes in my lane, gank, hes right here, help).

Farming is always my #1 goal when playing carry, and even in a difficult early game like that, I work hard get to that gold, wherever the hell it may be.

So to summarize this rant about itemization and play, the core I would build in a serious game would be...

Item Overview

Runed Axe rush, completed along with Marchers/Power Supply/Hatchet/Shield.
Explained my reasoning for this.
Marchers -> Steamboots
Obvious choice on him for all games, hes a carry with Blink and very high MS to negate the slowness. AGI while neuting, STR while fighting, INT while going "OH **** OH ****" for that 3 mana to blink out and survive a gank.
Helm of Dominator -> Symbol of Rage.
Unlimited neuting with Lifesteal/Cleave. Possess a creep and use it to stack ancients, or use it for 30% damage aura, frost armor, whatever. Eventually work this into Symbol of Rage, the best defensive item on Magebane by far (its very popular on him too). The timing of when you get Symbol of Rage is up to you.

Everything becomes less solid here. The best choices would probably be Shrunken Head, Wingbow, Riftshards, Doombringer (!?), Savage Mace or Geometer's Bane. Frostburn is also an option, although I don't really see why you would need it/want it after having HoD/Steamboots/Runed Axe.

Regardless the key is to go expensive because Ricebane with Cleave is an absurdly good farmer. I reached over 500 gpm that game even though I had died plenty and had a very weak start farm-wise. I had a fair share of HKs but regardless the rice was there as well.

Shrunken Head is carrying 101, get it if you need it and you generally will. Riftshards has excellent synergy with Runed Axe/Symbol of Rage. Doombringer is not a total gimmick, it is viable with the DR + Aegis combination. This could be used on a team that had dodgeable stuns or mostly slows or whatever. Yamateh's QoP in DotA stacked DRs and dominated in an iconic match (conditions were lack of silences/stuns, lots of slow on other team; no heroes to threaten QoP, basically), but I won't speak too much about it because I have a weak grasp on competitive DotA these days (don't observe the scene much anymore). Doombringer is flat +damage so it has the highest synergy with Riftshards, Runed Axe, and Symbol of Rage.

The aforementioned farm makes Wingbow excellent, it is a standard on AGI carries and for good reason. Savage Mace takes advantage of his 1.4 BAT, his AGI growth and the Steamboots/Wingbow, assuming we get Wingbow first. Lastly, it counters Evasion on opposing carries.

Geometer's has a lot of synergy with Magebane, the stats are strong and the images burn mana and get Savage Mace.

Anyways here are three decent builds that make use of all the items I green lighted:

Steamboots (STR/AGI) -> Post Haste (if very long game)
Runed Axe
Symbol of Rage
Shrunken Head
Riftshards
Wingbow

or something like this:

Steamboots (STR/AGI) -> Post Haste
Runed Axe
Symbol of Rage
Savage Mace
Wingbow
Geometer's

and then you could always try a DR/Aegis build:

Steamboots (STR/AGI) -> Post Haste
Runed Axe
Symbol of Rage
Riftshards
Doombringer
Aegis

That should do it for ways I would advocate building Magebane.

Well this was quite a lot of typing <-<

Maybe I'll just go write a Magebane guide after this lol. Hope this sums everything up regardless.

edit: fixed

[kthxkevin]

Thanks for the descriptive post, in dota I rarely ever got bfury on any carry, the idea of farming an item to farm more never appealed to me, but after seeing some high level replays, runed axe seems to be very good on a few carries such as chronos/mage. One last question...how do you solve his HP problems? You were rolling around with 800 hp when you had your runed axe, if a pyro found you jungling it would be very easy to get cc'ed by him. Even with steam he still has ~1000 hp, do you just stay back and blink in after for cleanup?

[Testknight]

Thanks for the descriptive post, in dota I rarely ever got bfury on any carry, the idea of farming an item to farm more never appealed to me, but after seeing some high level replays, runed axe seems to be very good on a few carries such as chronos/mage. One last question...how do you solve his HP problems? You were rolling around with 800 hp when you had your runed axe, if a pyro found you jungling it would be very easy to get cc'ed by him. Even with steam he still has ~1000 hp, do you just stay back and blink in after for cleanup?

If you need a Shrunken Head for their lineup, you'll only be fighting in very one-sided fights that are convient to your farm until you have Shrunken Head...then, you can help your team. This is after Runed Axe/HoD, assumedly.

You can't get "found jungling" by Pyro, you have to generally have wards up and stay on top of your awareness, regardless your steamboots should be on STR if you even suspect a gank.

So basically, what I'm saying is you get HP from Treads/Power Supply/Shrunken/eventual Symbol of Rage. You have to play safe, but if you have wards you can still do the farm God rountine and come out on top. If not you're probably getting wrecked map control-wise and might need to settle for some cheap hp (maybe a bracer or two) and help your team out.

edit: Steamboots/Power Supply before Runed Axe might be better in some cases, risk vs reward generally, remember if Magebane stays map aware he's uncatchable.