Tempest wrecked by Vindi - how to deal with him? [Archive]

Mynk

01-31-2010, 11:45 AM

I played a game with Tempest yesterday and was utterly destroyed by Vindicator's passive and ult silences. No blink + ult for me, and simply walking up to their team to ult failed as well (lol I had to at least give it a shot -_-).

The only solution was to try to ward and gank Vindi in order to remove him from the picture, or to try to have him focused first. Unfortunately, Vindi was butt-buddying with his team, or hanging out in fog during team battles...gg.

Don't get me wrong - it was a pretty good game, but when your team depends on your ult to win, not being able to get your ult off is totally frustrating =P

Aside from hitting the concede button, what other options are out there?

(As an aside, this was the lineup: :slit::magm::temp::vood::souls: vs. :succ::hamm::dead::thun::vind:)

Extreme_Cake

01-31-2010, 11:56 AM

None, you're screwed. You can't ult unless you know you'll get him, in which case you should go for it. This won't happen with a good Vindicator though.

IMaTRUCK1

01-31-2010, 12:18 PM

Have somebody initiate a fight with a bad skill,potentially sacrificing him,and run back asap,making Vindi use his silence.U might lose one guy,but u can hopefully ult without gazilion seconds of silence

Ghork

01-31-2010, 12:25 PM

Mardhyn

01-31-2010, 12:27 PM

Remember, Vind is the only real counter to tempest, and a soft one at that.

fatrend1

01-31-2010, 12:34 PM

With your team meteor is very minor, the rest of your team should easily put out enough damage to kill them in your ult. Would Blinking in and ulting be all that hard? Just wait till they're all hitting your tower and grouped up.

Second option is have Soulstealer insta-gib ulti Vindi or have magmus initiate as vindi will probably panic and ult.

Side-note:Does Shrunken make you immune to Vindi's silence?

Extreme_Cake

01-31-2010, 12:35 PM

Soft? How much harder a counter do you want? He completely screws your ult from anywhere on the map.

Zato

01-31-2010, 12:47 PM

Theres nothing you can do, a good vindi will stay back and save the ultimate for when you ult. The only real advice is to ban him or pick him in your team if you really need tempest in your lineup.

Grizfang

01-31-2010, 01:07 PM

u cant really meteor + ult vs vindi, but getting your ult off with dagger shouldn't be a real problem. If he uses ult to stop u from engaging fall back do it from a different position different time when his ult isn't up. Now if they engage it can be a problem however, so make sure you ward nicely and you get the initiation off.

using portalkey inside his aura will silence you before you can ulti, on that note iirc the range on portalkey is a bit bigger then his aura so it is possible to get it off, however if im up against vindi i prefer getting a assasins shroud on tempest rather then portalkey to counter the silence from blinking if you misjudge.

and shrunken head doesnt stop his aura silence or hit ulti afaik.

Mynk

01-31-2010, 01:08 PM

Yeah, their Vindi was a fairly decent player (and I can't say the same about my teammates lol, for instance Voodoo didn't get Cursed Ground until level 7, and that was only after we had realized it and made him get it T_T).

Forgive my ignorance - either their Vindi had great timing with his ult, or everytime I blinked in to ult and Vindi was nearby, I was instantly silenced (Ult would never go off). Is that due to Vindi's passive silence or was it just a one huge coincidence after another?

In that game, I'm certain Vindi saved his ult only to counter mine. Our team battles would go back and forth - without my ult we would get owned, and with my ult we owned them.

Pretty sure shrunken head won't counter Vindi's silence.

EDIT:

using portalkey inside his aura will silence you before you can ulti, on that note iirc the range on portalkey is a bit bigger then his aura so it is possible to get it off, however if im up against vindi i prefer getting a assasins shroud on tempest rather then portalkey to counter the silence from blinking if you misjudge.

and shrunken head doesnt stop his aura silence or hit ulti afaik.

Awesome, thanks for clarifying that for me. Assassin's Shroud sounds pretty viable; I'll have to give that a shot next time I'm up against a Vindi.

MotleyFOOL

01-31-2010, 01:43 PM

Vindi's squishy, tell your team to focus on him first. If you can burst him down quickly then you can mop up with your ultimate, even if you lose 1 - 2 guys in the initial engagement.

Manastrider

01-31-2010, 01:47 PM

You cannot pull off your Meteor + Void combo, but I don't see what's stopping you from blinking in and using Void. If you're sure he'll use Last Chapter when you're blinking in, drop a meteor. His Last Chapter will overlap with his Glyph of Silence, so it's basically a waste of his ultimate. But probably the best thing you can do is stun him, have your team focus fire on him, and get him down as soon as possible. The rest of the team should be easy.

PS. It should be really easy to kill him. Cursed Ground + Soulstealer's ultimate will take him down in seconds.

Zato

01-31-2010, 02:01 PM

Ih he knows his stuff he will just stay back at a safe spot and ulti when tempest ulti, the global silence will interrupt it. He is probably the hardest counter to tempest.

Th3Th1ng

01-31-2010, 02:06 PM

Remember, Vind is the only real counter to tempest, and a soft one at that.
:hell: and :phar: are very ashamed of you

Pi1

01-31-2010, 02:26 PM

Send a scout ahead and harass him.

Vindicator may not be with the other 4 heroes, but he should be close for his aura to work.

Best case would be that their allies panic and decides to get close to vindi to help him and there is your chance.

Worst case scenario if they have pharaoh or hellbringer outside of tempest ulti range.

garblax

01-31-2010, 03:53 PM

A good Vindicator will

Save his ultimate for Tempest
And not be next to his teammates

So the only way to get a good ultimate off is if the Vindicator is in your ultimate, or dead. Otherwise you are ****ed. He's a pretty hard counter to Tempest.

Eindbaas

01-31-2010, 05:38 PM

:hell: and :phar: are very ashamed of you

Could u go into details please? I'm still new to this game and have no clue why those heroes would be upset at the poster haha...

I'm missing crucial info that makes me understand your post, or I failed to see the joke.

ForTheSwarm

01-31-2010, 05:45 PM

Could u go into details please? I'm still new to this game and have no clue why those heroes would be upset at the poster haha...

I'm missing crucial info that makes me understand your post, or I failed to see the joke.

Both of their ultimates stun through shrunken head (canceling Tempest's channeled ultimate). In addition, they have fairly large ranges, allowing them to stand back and not get caught in the ultimate.

@OP. Portal Key doesn't trigger Vindicator's aura. He must just have good reflexes.

hzzzln

01-31-2010, 06:10 PM

Could u go into details please? I'm still new to this game and have no clue why those heroes would be upset at the poster haha...

I'm missing crucial info that makes me understand your post, or I failed to see the joke.

pharaohs soul is also extremely good to harass tempest, so he cant dagger for ult. having HBs dot on temp is good to, but you need to get quite close to him, so i wouldnt suggest that.

pharaoh and vindi counter tempest pretty much, but you need quite some skill for that...

Th3Th1ng

01-31-2010, 07:43 PM

Could u go into details please? I'm still new to this game and have no clue why those heroes would be upset at the poster haha...

I'm missing crucial info that makes me understand your post, or I failed to see the joke.
:phar: = Soul to stop blink ults. Hellfire active makes it impossible for temp to ult cause the ministun may hit him. Pharaohs ult has massive range and he can choose to initiate on tempest and stop the ult from ever happening or hang back and counter tempest initiation.

:hell: = Ult has massive massive AoE and a huge range. Hellbringer simply stands way in front of his team or way in back and waits for tempest to ult.

Eindbaas

01-31-2010, 08:41 PM

Awesome feedback guys, thanks!

Bacn

01-31-2010, 08:51 PM

Vindicator wrecks all heroes early game that don't have spammable low-mana skills

Zelfana

01-31-2010, 09:35 PM

:Nullstone: counters :vind: ultimate, FYI also all other Global range spells are blocked.

Th3Th1ng

01-31-2010, 10:25 PM

Awesome feedback guys, thanks!
Most welcome good sir :)

Ghork

02-01-2010, 03:20 PM

using portalkey inside his aura will silence you before you can ulti, on that note iirc the range on portalkey is a bit bigger then his aura so it is possible to get it off, however if im up against vindi i prefer getting a assasins shroud on tempest rather then portalkey to counter the silence from blinking if you misjudge.

and shrunken head doesnt stop his aura silence or hit ulti afaik.

If you are inside his aura you dont need to blink you can just cast it

Extreme_Cake

02-01-2010, 05:02 PM

:Nullstone: counters :vind: ultimate, FYI also all other Global range spells are blocked.
Can someone test this?

Mynk

02-01-2010, 05:16 PM

@OP. Portal Key doesn't trigger Vindicator's aura. He must just have good reflexes.

Can someone verify this? And/or I'll try to test this tonight with someone as well.

:Nullstone: counters :vind: ultimate, FYI also all other Global range spells are blocked.

Yeah...can someone verify this too? =P I thought Null Stone only countered targeted spells. Global spells don't really seem targeted. Maybe I'll try to test this also.

Thanks for the responses =)

Th3Th1ng

02-01-2010, 06:23 PM

Can someone verify this? And/or I'll try to test this tonight with someone as well.

Yeah...can someone verify this too? =P I thought Null Stone only countered targeted spells. Global spells don't really seem targeted. Maybe I'll try to test this also.

Thanks for the responses =)
testing both now

EDIT: You CAN blink inside Vindicators Silence aura and not be silenced. So feel free to blink ult

Yes nullstone blocks vindicators silence

PistoIero

02-01-2010, 06:27 PM

:plag: is also a counter to tempest. (750 range superior magic ministun on ult.)

Mynk

02-01-2010, 07:08 PM

testing both now

EDIT: You CAN blink inside Vindicators Silence aura and not be silenced. So feel free to blink ult

Yes nullstone blocks vindicators silence

Awesome. Thanks for the clarification =)

I guess the Vindi I was up against had either amazing reflexes or premonitions of my ulting.

Nullstone as an option...expensive >_< But, an option nonetheless XD

crayze

02-03-2010, 02:27 AM

Catch Vindicator or alternatively get a Nullstone quickly after Blink and then np. Against a team with Vind, though, you need to make your presence felt outside of simply an ult. Gank earlier using Eidolons and the stun and move around both jungles to keep both sidelanes down.

goldenwitch

02-03-2010, 03:11 AM

Really, you shouldn't ever be playing tempest against vindicator.

Lolololage

02-03-2010, 06:47 AM

looking at the lineup, you were probably too reliant on your ult. Try not picking a team with 4 AOE ults. You only need 2, max. (tempest + SS is just evil, no need for magmus and slither)

02-03-2010, 08:43 AM

using a temp ulti can be really challenging depending on the lineup you are facing.

#1 almost every team will have some kind of stunner, requiring you to either purchase a bkb, or grab all stunners with your ulti.

#2 against a vindicator, a bkb will only defend against his aura, meaning that you need to grab vindicator as well, or his global silence will stop you. this can be especially difficult since vindicator doesn't need to be anywhere near you to cancel your ulti.

#3 any hero on the other team can purchase a 2k item that will cancel your ulti through bkb, anyone with this item needs to be grabbed by your ulti.

A few things that help tons with playing tempest

#1 having a vindicator on YOUR team - global silence + tempest ulti = no skills can interupt your ulti

#2 banning standard counters, i.e. pharoah, hb, etc..

#3 not picking tempest when vindi and other standard counters are available.

#4 null stone/shrunken head.