Wretched Hag

[jay`t]

Chaosmongler / jay't 's Guide to the Wretched Hag!


This guide is written for Normal Mode 5v5 play.


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8894/hagstats.jpg



Table Of Contents - To jump to a section, press 'control-f' and type in the code next to the section:


.1a Introduction
.2a Pros and Cons of Wretched Hag
.3a When Should I Pick Wretched Hag?
.4a Skills
.5a Core Analysis
.6a Skill Build
.7a Early item build and philosophy
.8a Playstyle Guide
.8b Mid Game and Beyond - Luxury items and more
.9a Replays
.10a FAQ!
.11a Wretched Hag 30 Second TLDR Guide
.12a Changelog and Credits

Introduction: .1a
Wretched Hag is based off the DOTA hero Akasha, Queen of Pain, with some subtle differences; most notably her Ultimate applying the Haunt debuff to its targets (mass aoe slow and DOT) and that her third skill, Sonar Scream, hits units that are fogged and invisible.

Wretched Hag is one of the most versatile heroes in the entire game. A strong nuking semi-carry with amazing chasing ability, she maintains relevance throughout the game, and she is one of the heroes that has the ability to step on the throat of the other team before their carries even have a chance to breathe. Should the early game go awry, she is one of the best ward hoes around.

This is my first guide, and I hope it is helpful. If you have any feedback, please let me know!

Pros and Cons of Wretched Hag: .2a

+Massively strong early and mid game
+Even scales well into late game!
+Good runewhoring abilities
+Hero is fun to play - highly mobile hit and run!
+Just about any item works good on her!
+Great voice! Also carries a weird thing on her back!
+Very good chaser!

-Squishy! Even with lots of health she goes down quick in a stun
-Hard to play! Constant mana problems, not a great animation, and MASSIVE positioning requirements!
-Some people don't like the model!
-No innate hard disable!
-Did I say that she's squishy?

When Should I Pick Wretched Hag? .3a
Wretched Hag is a high burst damage semicarry that has no innate stun. She requires early farm. Hag fits into lineups that need a semicarry, and that already have good crowd control.

Hag is especially punishing to squishy teams that lack immobilizing heroes. Hag is a fair matchup with many popular mids, due to her blink and ability to push the lane. Hag is a great pick if you have a hard carry, as she can counterpush well, and can fend off the enemy team while your carry farms. Hag also combos with any initiator, for example, with :behe:, the fight is over before it begun.

Immobilizations tend to last longer than straight stuns, and are especially brutal to Hag due to her requiring to be so close to the enemy. Heroes like Glacius and Puppet punish hag by shutting down her ability to blink. Vindicator cuts down Hag's burst significantly just by being present - being silenced between casts is not a fun thing when you're the Hag. Electrician's long duration disable really hurts if your team isn't there to stun him every time he does it, and unfortunately, Hag has no innate disable to counter him.


Skills:.4a
Learns Haunt, Flash of Darkness, Sonar Scream, Bat Blast

http://honwiki.net/w/images/1/10/Wretchedhagskill1.gifHaunt: The Wretched Hag haunts a target unit with a bat, slowing its movement speed and dealing periodic damage.

Target: Enemy Unit
Type: Magic
Range: 400
Mana cost: 80/100/120/140
Cooldown: 20/17/14/11 seconds

Deals 50/70/70/100 initial Magic damage, then applies Haunted to target for 15 seconds.

Haunted:
10/20/40/50 Magic damage inflicted every 3 seconds.
20/30/40/50% Movement speed initially, which wears off over 10 seconds.

Notes: Haunt is a scaling slow (meaning you need to get points into it for it to slow a lot) that does crap damage at low levels. It also has a short range. At max rank though, it does 350 damage and applies a brutal slow. Additionally, her ultimate applies the haunted debuff to all targets hit, dependent on your level of Haunt.


http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8765/hauntq.jpg
400 range is really short.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/d/da/Wretchedhagskill2.gifFlash of Darkness: The Wretched Hag disappears in a flash of darkness, only to instantly reappear at a target location.

Type: Target position
Mana cost: 60 at all levels
Range: 800/900/1000/1150
Cooldown: 12/10/8/6 seconds
Teleports self to target position.

Notes: Hag's playstyle is heavily dependent on positioning. Without blink, she would be a very poor pick. With blink, she can chase, initiate, blink into the woods and TP away, farm lanes, etc. This skill has a nice quick cooldown, but not quick enough so that you can blink in, unload, and blink out. You're vulnerable for a few seconds in between.


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7817/blink.jpg
The wards show distance for each rank of Flash of Darkness.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/0/04/Wretchedhagskill3.gifSonar Scream: Unleashing a high frequency scream, the Wretched Hag damages all nearby enemies.
Target: Point Blank AOE -> affects nearby enemies
Type: Magic
Radius: 400/450/475/500
Mana cost: 140
Cooldown: 7 seconds at all levels
Deals 85/165/225/300 Magic damage to targets in radius.

Notes: This skill is what allows your early and mid game dominance. Note that the radius increases by 25% from Rank 1 to Rank 4. You can hit people from rather far away with this skill at Rank 4, as shown in my picture below:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8518/sonarscreamrange.jpg

Please note that unlike Hag's counterpart in DOTA, this skill DOES hit units in the fog or stealthed. It goes through trees and cliffs. Combined with your blink and your haunt, nobody escapes the Hag.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/6/62/Wretchedhagskill4.gifBat Blast (Called Bat Swarm when it's boosted by Staff of the Masters): The Wretched Hag lets loose a torrent of magical bats in a target direction. Enemies caught within the blast are heavily damaged.

Target: Target Position
Range: 700
Mana cost: 250 / 350 / 500
Cooldown: 135 at all levels (120 / 100 / 80 with Staff)

Deals 290/430/600 (340/530/725 with Staff of the Master) and applies Haunted to targets in a line, up to 800 units away. Radius of the damaging line starts out at 100 and ends at 300.

Haunted Effects: Pretty much is just the debuff portion of Haunt with OUT the initial cast damage.

This picture shows Bat Blast range. Like our friend Sonar Scream, bat blast range is LARGE

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/8465/batblastrange.jpg

Notes: This is the skill that will cause your enemies to mass mystic vestments. The skill is aimed similarly to Defiler's Wave of Death, but does far more damage. Additionally, it applies haunt to your targets (though not the initial haunt cast damage, just the debuff), allowing you to slow their team. Haunt does stack with this ult, meaning if you ult someone, then haunt them, they will be taking a load of damage. You have to level haunt for the ult to apply the debuff to the target.

Finally, a quick note regarding targeting: If you target a point outside of where the ult would be able to reach, Hag will walk to a point where it would hit, and then cast. There is a small cast time on this skill, so be careful when you aim it or you'll look like a big noob when you whiff it!


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6649/ultho.jpg
The enemy team found themselves in a poor position, enabling this ult initiation to get our team three easy kills.

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Core Analysis: .5a
This is where we analyze hero-specific stuff like stat/stat gain and movespeed.

Wretched Hag's starting stats are fairly average or below average. She has a good starting INT at 24, but a poor starting STR of 16. Both her INT gain and STR gain are poop, at 2.5 and 1.7, respectively.

Hag's agility is an oddity in the INT world. She starts at a fairly good 18 and gains 2.0 per level. As Hag gains levels, and you start putting points in stats, her attack speed becomes quite decent.

Hag has 300 movespeed, low base damage, and crap armor. As if this wasn't underwhelming enough, her range is 550, and her attack animation leaves something to be desired. Finally, sonar scream has a static mana cost, meaning you can't spam it early to get last hits.

So what do we do with this hero, whom seemingly has so many beginning-of-the-game disadvantages? Hag is a ranged blinker that nukes fairly hard early and needs farm early. She needs the middle lane and thrives on runewhoring.

We will build and play Hag to compete in the mid lane, crush the other lanes, and farm enough to maintain relevancy in endgame. We will not waste our dominance. Our job is to own hard for the first forty minutes of play, and then hand a winning game over to a carry so they can right click end it for us.

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Skill build: .6a
1: Flash of Darkness / Sonar Scream / Haunt
2: Sonar Scream / Flash of Darkness
3: Sonar Scream
4: Haunt / Flash of Darkness / Sonar Scream
5: Sonar Scream
6: Bat Blast
7: Sonar Scream (maxed out)
8: Haunt / Flash of Darkness
9: Haunt / Flash of Darkness
10: Haunt / Flash of Darkness
11: Bat Blast
12-14: Haunt / Flash of Darkness
15: Stats
16: Bat Blast (maxed out)
17-25: Stats

[COLOR=yellow]Explanation: Hag's skill build really depends on what you are comfortable with, and the enemies you're facing. Many people enjoy getting haunt early, and sometimes maxing Haunt before Flash. However, I've found that against most teams, extra ranks of Flash are better than haunt - and rank 1 Haunt lets people deny kills off your ult.

Even the very first point is debatable. If you're going for rune bloodlust, it's possible that a super early rank in haunt or scream is good. If you're against a strong mid, you might want that level 1 rank in sonar scream to grab a last hit you'd otherwise miss. Keep in mind when skilling Hag that your goal is early-mid game dominance, not just merely survival. You NEED those early last hits, you NEED that early gold, and you NEED to hit 7 before the enemy does. Period. If there is one thing you learn from this guide, learn that Hag is all about knocking down the enemy, then kicking them in the nuts. Have I repeated that enough?


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Early item build and philosophy: .7a
Hag's core is really simple: Bottle, Marchers, TP stones and early INT.

Thing is, Hag can farm. Hag has the best chasing mech in the game with blink, and a built in slow. Her sonar scream HURTS, and is spammable. She has a 2.0 agility gain, and will have a respectable autoattack later on.

What am I saying? This hero isn't Glacius. You don't buy bracers / wards and 'support'. You have to be aggressive through the entire game. This means farming open lanes, grabbing early kills, killing neutrals when nothing else is around. Hag isn't the 'ricing' type carry where she sits safely near a tower for 20 minutes denying creeps. She blows apart a wave or two, then blinks around the map looking for more targets - preferably heroes.

Starting Build:

http://i36.tinypic.com/33o4aro.jpghttp://i36.tinypic.com/33o4aro.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/33w07z4.jpg http://i33.tinypic.com/33w07z4.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/dxmz3k.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/dxmz3k.jpghttp://i38.tinypic.com/313jh2d.jpg


or http://i35.tinypic.com/20879ea.jpg / http://i36.tinypic.com/3128cp2.jpg http://i33.tinypic.com/33w07z4.jpghttp://i36.tinypic.com/33o4aro.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/dxmz3k.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/dxmz3k.jpg http://i33.tinypic.com/qnsb61.jpg or (your preference!)

You can get runes of the blight instead of the healing pot, if you prefer

The two above permit an aggressive bottle rush, using sonar scream to grab last hits and harass, then use the pots to refill. Either way you go, work towards your early game items.

[COLOR=yellow]Early Game items:

http://i38.tinypic.com/5n51zp.jpghttp://i36.tinypic.com/96cj9v.jpg

Once you get your bottle, you're given more leverage for spamming sonar scream to get hits and harass your opponent. Your blink will let you get most of the runes, and if you're still running dry on mana, feel free to crow the bottle back and forth. Get your :Marchers:. While you're good for ganks now, you'll need additional mana to cast multiple screams or to chain all spells together.

Blood Chalice, yes or no??:

Blood Chalice is good in combination with bottle, but is very dangerous to use against other nukers. Since you will eventually be buying mana and mana regeneration items, think carefully if Blood Chalice will be a good purchase in the game. 150 health lost is quite a bit on Wretched Hag.

then to your CORE - you need FAST int:

Want some early stats?
http://i36.tinypic.com/13yfq5x.jpghttp://i36.tinypic.com/13yfq5x.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/sff52q.jpg + steamboots

Want to try something different? Get http://i35.tinypic.com/w0n86t.jpg.
Always get http://i36.tinypic.com/w7mvsi.jpg. Get wards if necessary.

Exile stacking is a cheap and easy core build that will get you the mana you need, fast, and on a skeleton farm.

I'd like to discuss :TabletOfCommand:. The tablet is cheap, and is a great item for your early-mid game. You get a lot of INT and good attack damage out of it, and the on use ability is phenomenal in just about every matchup. I strongly recommend :Bottle::PowerSupply::Steamboots::TabletOfCommand: :HomecomingStone: as your first buys, as it makes you deadly quickly, and leaves you room for your first part of a luxury item, usually blessed orb or glowstone.

Luxury items will be discussed below!
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Playstyle Guide .8a

[COLOR=yellow][SIZE=3]Laning: [COLOR=white][COLOR=cyan]Solo mid, baby. A Hag without a solo lane is an underleveled underfarmed shadow of what she could be. Hag isn't a particularly great 2v1 hero, either, as she is vulnerable to harass and has weak starting damage. Finally, Hag's ability to runewhore is among the best.

Hag might have some trouble vs a few other popular solos. Melee solos are particularly troublesome, as they can deny with hatchet. Against solos like :phar::madm::devo::pebb::pand: you cannot afford to make a mistake. Clip the hero with your sonar scream, if you can, when you use it to last hit. Also of concern are popular mid solos like puppet and deadwood that have immobilizations. Your goal in the early early game is to NOT DIE and to get FARM! Use your mana potions and sonar scream to accomplish this! Hag's early nuking is strong, and clipping a hero a few times with sonar scream can lead to an early tower dive and surprising bloodlust in your favor.

Once you get bottle and boots, it's go time. Starting from level 7 onwards, every time your ult is up, use it to get a kill or two. A pair of level 5s have no chance against a level 7 hag that's blinking in from the fog with her allies around. Remember that your blink likely has a 10/12 second CD at this time so don't put your squishy self in a position you can't escape from!

Between 7 and 14 you're the God of the Battlefield. When you show up, people die. Do not waste this time free farming lanes!! Don't be afraid to blow up creeps or neutrals if there's no targets, but make your priority enemy heroes. Keep your mana topped off in case you're needed to TP defend your carry, push a lane, or punish an opponent's lane that's pushed too far. Do not squander any opportunity to kill enemy heroes!

Team fights: Generally, you want to dump your ult onto as many as possible, but always try to nail people you know you or your team will be able to kill. Follow your initiation hero, but don't be afraid to initiate yourself if you see an opportunity that you can escape from! Don't let people get away - use your blink and tablet to chase them down!

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9844/lvl6gank.jpg
This screenshot shows the power of good positioning with Wretched Hag. I've nailed both with a sonar scream, and now the two enemies are prey to an easy ult. A couple auto attacks with my double damage rune and Archer's toast. Chronos tries to juke me in the woods, but nobody escapes the Hag. Note two important things about this image: this is a level 6 gank on two carries, and that the archer in the screenshot was hit by Sonar Scream, even though the graphic of the spell is nowhere near her.


[SIZE=4]Mid Game and Beyond - Luxury items and more: .8b
Once you're at the 15-20 minute mark or so, you really need to start assessing the game and where it's heading, so that you can sap momentum from the opponents, or try to end the game if you're dominating them. Hag cannot win a game herself under most normal circumstances, so it is important to pick your luxury items with this in mind.

Wait - why not http://i36.tinypic.com/22ncjd.jpg??
An early STOM will allow you many more ults during the time they're most effective - midgame. Get this too late, and your ult will be doing less significant damage, whether because of magic armor or just HP. I really do NOT recommend this item, ever!

[jay`t]

Are you GETTING dominated hard? Consider getting hp/mana, wards, and maybe cheap CC
http://i36.tinypic.com/3128cp2.jpg http://i35.tinypic.com/256s1g2.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/2qlve5f.jpg

Items like barrier idol and Astrolabe are poor on Hag because she does not sit with her team in fights. She is an opportunist that skirts the edges of the field, clipping enemies when able, and chasing down runners. Hag will never be a good carrier of items that require your team to be near.

The four best big items on hag are?http://i37.tinypic.com/f4fbdl.jpg http://i36.tinypic.com/n2o7bm.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/rlg900.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/hufwk7.jpg

The mighty :Puzzlebox: deserves a mention and a paragraph of its own. This item makes Hag into a terrific pusher, but it also adds a load of damage in teamfights. Please for the love of Christ, use the green dude's mana burn. Please. An early puzzlebox can end a game almost as much as an early SToM, and its usefulness remains even when the enemy begins to get magic armor. This item also lets you counterward for free! (Just make sure to use your blink to get to higher areas).

:FrostwolfsSkull: is probably my favorite item for Hag. This truly accentuates her role as a chaser, makes her Haunt slow by a ~LOT~, gives godly amounts of HP, MP, gives good autoattack damage, gives good agility, and so on and so forth. This item also uses a glowstone, which is something I like to get early anyway. One VERY important thing to remember is that the movement and attack slow go through shrunken head, making this a potent anti carry item.

:Nullstone: is a very popular choice in all levels of play, and is a natural fit for Hag. The mana tube and blessed orb are great items for Hag, and this item solves your mana regen problems. This item is ALWAYS situational though, so make sure that the enemy team has spells that are actually worth blocking!

:KuldrasSheepstick: hard disables are never a bad thing, and neither is permanently fixing your mana problems. This item is hard to build, though, and doesn't give a ton of HP.

Super Luxury - Survivability problem solved, buff your autoattack: http://i34.tinypic.com/zu9ts.jpghttp://i37.tinypic.com/ib9ufp.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/bhf482.jpg
If the game got to this point, you just pick whatever you think will help the most. A lot of people think of hellflower as trash, and it sometimes is, but consider a long game where you've rushed Frostwolf skull. The hellflower will amplify your already decent autoattack, give your team a damage buff, and solve the mana regen problem that frostwolf doesn't.


Situational Items! Sometimes even Amelia Earhart had a detour:

http://i38.tinypic.com/143q5it.jpg - great against magic damage! you can upgrade this to shaman's headdress if you'd like

http://i36.tinypic.com/2ilm0i1.jpg - Situationally useful against a team that outinitiates you late game, OR if you've gone the 'hard carry' route and need to be able to trade blows with people.

http://i38.tinypic.com/nnml3n.jpghttp://i35.tinypic.com/1iogwj.jpgCarries getting you down? Try one of these, or both! Be careful with void talisman, as it reduces your magic armor. Generally, frostwolf is better than frostfield as an anti carry item.

http://i34.tinypic.com/x1hmkg.jpghttp://i36.tinypic.com/15wkzrt.jpgA hag with her HP problem solved is a good bound eye carrier. She can also blink to popular ward spots to get sight of them easily.

Always consider extra HP on Hag. Bracers are cheap and keep you alive!



NONO items for hag:
:AlchemistBones: you have too much stuff to worry about early to rush this. go gank!
:Codex: fun, but too expensive!
:SacrificialStone: or :BehemothsHeart: neither one is AWFUL, but you could do so much for the money. Sheep's better than sac stone for regen, and Frostwolf trumps heart in overall usefulness. People like the CD reduction on Heart, but neglect to remember how little your 300 damage nuke really does late game against magic armored enemies. Sac Stone additionally does little to benefit your auto attack and the heal on death requires you to die, which isn't really your goal.


:HarkonsBlade: Generally a bad idea because it offers no survivability and requires another heavy mana regen to even be able to use, this item CAN be good if you don't have an attack modifier, but you are already heavily farmed. Most times this is out of reach, but keep it in mind if for whatever reason you have 20 kills and the game won't end.
:Thunderclaw: no survivability at all, and hag's AOE is already great.
:RingOfSorcery: trash on hag
:RestorationStone: don't even think about it!!! a double ult will cost you ungodly amounts of mana, thus ruining your ability to chase. why get this when you could get something more useful like sheep or frostwolf?
:HackNSlash: not so great for int carries since agi and str grant no damage. Also, hag has no cool passive that would make breaking this down into geos worth it.
:StaffOfTheMaster: You know, I see people get this all the time on hag at like the 35 minute mark or even later. It adds a whole 125 damage to your ult. The cooldown reduction IS significant, however, if you haven't rushed this item, you won't be needing the fast cooldown (later on, fights tend to be team vs team a few minutes apart, as opposed to frantic ganks earlier in the game that can happen at any time). Remember - this item is good for EARLY domination, where every cooldown of ult is additional kills. Later on, your ult is not going to be guaranteeing kills.

Remember! Your job is to carry the team for 40 minutes, so that your 'real' carry can take over! Stop their pushes, kill their carry, and be all over the map! Abuse your on demand damage and six second blink! Abuse your ability to farm out creep waves! Abuse the enemy :nymp: that thinks she doesn't need to stack bracers! If you do your job well, EVERYONE else's job becomes cake!

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9051/craftyescape.jpg
a crafty tablet of command escape from a mean blood hunter while my blink's cooling down!

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Replays .9a

THIS SECTION NEEDS TO BE UPDATED ONCE I PLAY SOME GOOD HAG GAMES =O


=


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FAQ .10

Hey! Can you talk a little about Hag in competitive play?
Hag in competitive play is mostly the same as I've outlined, but there are some key differences that need to be highlighted. Hags in competitive play rarely are the main warder, and are generally picked as a solo mid, or a side solo lane (not 1v3, though).

Hag is a fair pick in competitive play because her mass aoe damage is especially punishing to underleveled supports.

Competitive Hags tend to build a bit tanky. Two bracers, power supply, bottle, steamboots is not uncommon before the hag starts to really get down and dirty. Nullstone tends to be the item of choice for competitive Hags.


Do Haunt and Bat Blast stack? What are the exact mechanics?

Here is the answer, Supplied by ElementUser:




The mechanics of Bat Blast & Haunt stacking is the following:

-Bat Blast and Haunts' individual DoT's will tick on their individual timers.
-Applying Bat Blast after Haunt (or vice-versa) will reset the slow timer. This means that if you cast both spells on the target at once, they won't be slowed for twice as much in the same duration (the slows still stack diminishingly though)


When should you dual-lane Hag? How does a Hag dual lane play out?

I'm so glad you asked! Dual laning Hag is not recommended for obvious reasons. There are only a few times when you'd dual lane hag. These times are:

*Blood Hunter or some other mid is destroying you.
*You have soulstealer on the team, or another person that's even more mid-reliant than you (aka AR or SD or some BD games where you can't have perfect lanes)
*I think that's about it :)

In any situation, the person laning with Hag has to not gobble up all the farm. Getting Hag's early int, early bottle, and early marchers are important no matter what lane she's in. The lane has to play extremely defensively. If you have a Soulstealer mid, for example, our friend the Hag would likely be in the dangerous lane, and likely against double stunners.

Think about a lane such as :wret::poll: vs :pyro::magm:. Even though Poly is capable of offensive plays vs the double stun, the Hag Wog lane will be more defensive since Pyro Magmus is offensive. Positioning (as always with this hero) is super important. The good thing about this is that Hag and Wog can unload a crazy amount of burst if they make a mistake. If magmus makes a poor charge or Pyro misses a stun, Wog can sheep the other and they can unload, with a good chance of a kill using blink. Remember that Hag, even in a side lane, is still a ganker, and try to get out of the lane ASAP and start roaming that map :)

ARG! I can't win vs heavy nuker solo mids! Help!

To answer your question, against heavy nukers like Plague, Thunderbringer, and Pyro you harass when you can with your nuke, and use the monkey to ferry bottle back and forth. Items like mana battery are good, and you may need an extra bracer you weren't planning on.

Finally, don't sit there going blow for blow with someone that's got a chance to beat you. Ganking the sidelanes will give the game's momentum to your and your team and null the effect of a strong mid against you.

Against Vindicator, your blink costs 60 mana. His Sage's Lore costs 75-135 depending on level, and has a 14 second cooldown at all ranks. Save your blink for his crap, and you're good to go.

Why Sonar Scream first? I max Haunt first and it guarantees early ganks with your ult. Sorry bro, your skill build is wrong!

This is one I've seen pop up now and again, and I see Hags in game skilling Haunt first. Haunt first DOES make your ult hit harder, slow more, and do more total damage. The problem is that Haunt's damage is done over fifteen seconds, in 3 second intervals. This means, if your opponent is good, they can sip bottles between ticks to stay alive, much like Slither's poison nuke. Sonar Scream does its damage up front, and has a seven second cooldown. While Haunt may do more damage PER CAST than Sonar Scream, Sonar Scream does far more TOTAL because of its short cooldown.

Finally, if that isn't good enough for you, Sonar Scream is AOE, and increases your farm by a million (yes that's mathematically proven :D).

The best build for Hag right now is Max scream at 7 with 1 point in blink and Haunt along the way. After that, it's all personal preference.

TOO MUCH WALL OF TEXT! PICTURES PLZ!
Hey, this isn't a question, but your wish is my command! Guide tidied up and pictures added :)


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Wretched Hag 30 Second TLDR Guide! .11a

-> Solo mid. Start with stats and a bit of regen. Courier if necessary. If you HAVE to dual lane, play defensively and with someone who doesn't need loads of farm.
-> Get bottle fast. Get lots of last hits through whatever means necessary.
-> Skill Built: Sonar Scream first then Haunt or Flash next depending on opposition. 2 ranks of blink then max haunt is good, too. Ult when able.
-> Grab marchers and gank hard all game. 7-14 are your money levels, make em count.
-> Ward only if necessary. You are a carry. Gank a lot.
-> Item Build: Early INT -> steamboots -> nullstone/puzzlebox/kuldra/sheep -> luxury. Work on autoattack dmg late game. Only get staff of the master if you can rush it FAST.... or just dont get it at all.
-> Win!

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[/QUOT
Changelog and Credits

2.09.11 - Updated the guide to be more relevant to current hon.
7.13.10 - Big update :D
3.30.10 - Added notes about Nullstone and Harkons.
2.25.10 - Pictures are back!
2.01.10 - Typos!a
1.31.10 - Has anyone ever said you guys are picky :) :) :) Changing the format of the guide to have more pictures and less words. This is a bit of a process!!
1.31.10 - Added a bit more to 30 second guide. Added more screenshots with captions. Added Haunt vs Sonar Scream question in FAQ.
1.30.10 - Changed 30 second guide a bit
1.29.10 - Added more content and screenshots! Edited Staff of the Master a bit to reflect significance of cooldown, credit to Elementuser for pointing this out

Special thanks to:
TinyBlkTears for letting me copypasta his guide format
Jesus and Baby Jesus for their inspiration
Elementuser for Haunt + Bat Blast Mechanics

[ElementUser]

I like the guide, but SotM's 55 second cooldown reduction is not what I would call "a bit" (it's actually quite a lot).

Also, what if QoP has to dual-lane?

[jay`t]

I like the guide, but SotM's 55 second cooldown reduction is not what I would call "a bit" (it's actually quite a lot).

Also, what if QoP has to dual-lane?

You're right about STOM. I'm editing that to reflect this.

Dual laning isn't something I think hag should do, obviously, but consensus is that she can pull it off. I'm going to research this a bit and try out a few hag dual lanes, and I'll add a section. Or perhaps the community might lend a hand here with a bit of information :)

thanks for your feedback:wret:

[Stove]

great guide, definitely love playing hag
maybe some heroes that counter her? and how to counter them?
idk, maybe like a section on how to counter vindi or a really aggressive TB @ mid
or even a well played SS
i feel like these heavy nukes ( vindi aside) have the potential to outlane you mid considering hag's terrible base str and str gain

thoughts on this?

[_Alice]

max haunt + blink = kick ass
max sonar + Blink = too bad -,....,-
really , try out haunt lv 4 + ult lv 2 , u can triple kill -,...,-

[Steffen]

nice guide ;)
but maybe you could make a clear list of your must-have items in your "30secs guide" (the post #2), it is partly hard to follow your itembuild^^

and itembuilds are also the most interesting part in a guide :D
but do it get this right that the haunt-ulti slow stacks with the normal haunt-slow?
its been some time since i played her, i enjoyed it often though...

[ElementUser]

You're right about STOM. I'm editing that to reflect this.

Dual laning isn't something I think hag should do, obviously, but consensus is that she can pull it off. I'm going to research this a bit and try out a few hag dual lanes, and I'll add a section. Or perhaps the community might lend a hand here with a bit of information :)

thanks for your feedback:wret:

Yeah it's just the problem of when Dual Laning Hag would be better than Soloing her that's the main thing I want you to talk about :).


nice guide ;)
but maybe you could make a clear list of your must-have items in your "30secs guide" (the post #2), it is partly hard to follow your itembuild^^

and itembuilds are also the most interesting part in a guide :D
but do it get this right that the haunt-ulti slow stacks with the normal haunt-slow?
its been some time since i played her, i enjoyed it often though...

The mechanics of Bat Blast & Haunt stacking is the following:

-Bat Blast and Haunts' individual DoT's will tick on their individual timers.
-Applying Bat Blast after Haunt (or vice-versa) will reset the slow timer. This means that if you cast both spells on the target at once, they won't be slowed for twice as much in the same duration (the slows still stack diminishingly though)

[KingDerp]

I love hag (She just looks SO HOT). She's certainly my favorite hero.

Good job, great guide! =)

[jay`t]

great guide, definitely love playing hag
maybe some heroes that counter her? and how to counter them?
idk, maybe like a section on how to counter vindi or a really aggressive TB @ mid
or even a well played SS
i feel like these heavy nukes ( vindi aside) have the potential to outlane you mid considering hag's terrible base str and str gain

thoughts on this?

To answer your question, against heavy nukers like Plague, Thunderbringer, and Pyro you harass when you can with your nuke, and use the monkey to ferry bottle back and forth. Items like mana battery are good, and you might need to get a second courier for your team if you are hogging the first too much.

Finally, don't sit there going blow for blow with someone that's got a chance to beat you. Ganking the sidelanes will give the game's momentum to your and your team and null the effect of a strong mid against you.

Match 24187876 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=24187876) is a good example of what to do against enemy nukers that just don't quit. Watch the first 12 game-time minutes (the first 13 on the replay control clock) to see how you handle someone. Pressure his other lanes and make him pay for his positional mistakes.

Against Vindicator, your blink costs 60 mana. His Sage's Lore costs 75-135 depending on level, and has a 14 second cooldown at all ranks. Save your blink for his crap, and you're good to go.

I've added your question, and Element's question of the Dual Lane hag to the FAQ. Thanks for your feedback and questions!

[ElementUser]

Hehe, well maybe I should edit my slowing a bit for Haunt & Bat Blast.

The "slow regeneration rate" stays the same on each debuff, but the slows stack diminishingly (the same way Iron Buckler stacks diminishingly with the (1-x)(1-y) formula). So you still won't get much out of double slowing the enemy.

Sorry chaos :3

[JellyBeans]

great radius diagrams, never realised sonar scream truely was that large because the effects only show a small radius around her. interesting

[Namtar]

<- Support for premium guides (this is by far the best hag guide I've seen yet and there's no hag guide in the premium section)

Only thing I disagree with (and it's a pretty big one) is you recommending hellflower.

Hellflower is terrible, even as luxury. Items that are better:
- Totem of Kuldra
- Puzzlebox level 3
- Frostwulf Skull
- Fortfield Plate
Even harkon's blade is a better item by the time you could consider hellflower.

Otherwise excelent guide and good analysis on the different item builds.

[Well_Shebber]

Love the guide. I play Hag all the time, and still learned a bit from this (notably the size of Sonar Scream at max rank, and trying out a Tablet on her). I fully agree with your skill build and items otherwise, with the exception of starting items; I go :ManaBattery: :RunesOfTheBlight: :ManaPotion: :ManaPotion: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem: or :ManaBattery: :MarkOfTheNovice: :MarkOfTheNovice: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem: usually, depending on the other mid (and upgrade them to Power Supply/Talismans). I rarely grab a Bottle on her, but perhaps I'll give it a shot.

[failtard]

Thanks for the guide, was looking for something updated on Hag! Always have had fun games when I got the chance to play her and I'm planning to get a few more Hag games in shortly. Damn pubbers speedpicking all these heroes who don't mesh with her..! :P


Love the guide. I play Hag all the time, and still learned a bit from this (notably the size of Sonar Scream at max rank, and trying out a Tablet on her). I fully agree with your skill build and items otherwise, with the exception of starting items; I go :ManaBattery: :RunesOfTheBlight: :ManaPotion: :ManaPotion: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem: or :ManaBattery: :MarkOfTheNovice: :MarkOfTheNovice: :MinorTotem: :MinorTotem: usually, depending on the other mid (and upgrade them to Power Supply/Talismans). I rarely grab a Bottle on her, but perhaps I'll give it a shot.

Not to criticize too much without seeing it done first, but how do you avoid getting harassed out of lane if you only have battery for regen, as per the 2nd build? And how do you get by without bottle for rune control and mana? I mean, not all mid heroes are spell spammers and even if they are casting fairly regulary like Pharaoh, Plague or TB, those 12-15 hp per spell don't seem to measure up to counter the damage done... or do you lane instead of controlling mid? Or ferry regen items with courier?

[Well_Shebber]

Like I said, it depends on the other mid. If it's anyone I can avoid (Devo, Pebbles) or outharass/last hit (SS, Vindi), I go with the second until I get Power Supply. I use the first one much more often.

[jay`t]

I've updated the guide with a couple screenshots, and range images of blink and haunt.

RE: Namtar - Only thing I disagree with (and it's a pretty big one) is you recommending hellflower.

It's not per se a recommendation as it is taking over shieldbreaker or savage mace in the extreme endgame. Let's say your items are :TabletOfCommand: :Steamboots: :Bottle: :VoidTalisman: :HomecomingStone: :FrostwolfsSkull: and it's getting late in the game. Hellflower would be the perfect item in this case, as it would dramatically increase your autoattack, solve the mana regen problem you'd be having, and give you a damage amp (also provide a good counter to other blinkers). Also note that every one of your items listed was recommended before Hellflower, and frostfield is listed as an item to get if it's late and carries are making you sad.

Really, it's in the 'ultra luxury' section for that reason only. I would never ever suggest a hellflower rush, as you're asking for worlds of pain with your 1000hp.

[Uber_LOL]

This is a wonderful guide and has helped me get better with a hero I always thought was a bit underpowered but this obviously isnt the case and you've shown me otherwise thanks again!

The content is fantastic, however, maybe it could be a bit more noob friendly by dividing some of the larger sections (i.e. mid game and beyond) into smaller sections like

1. what to do if youre getting /facepalmed

2. what to do if youve got early farm (sotm nomes etc.)

just to make it that much more readable because as it is that block of text is rather daunting. If thats implemented i think this could very well be the premium wrteched hag guide everyones looking for.

[jay`t]

This is a wonderful guide and has helped me get better with a hero I always thought was a bit underpowered but this obviously isnt the case and you've shown me otherwise thanks again!

The content is fantastic, however, maybe it could be a bit more noob friendly by dividing some of the larger sections (i.e. mid game and beyond) into smaller sections like

1. what to do if youre getting /facepalmed

2. what to do if youve got early farm (sotm nomes etc.)

just to make it that much more readable because as it is that block of text is rather daunting. If thats implemented i think this could very well be the premium wrteched hag guide everyones looking for.

This isn't a bad idea. I am going to make the item images cleaner and a bit larger so people just glancing through have an idea of what I'm talking about:)

'thanks for your comment

[ElementUser]

Yeah personally I'm not a fan of "If this happens, get <insert item icon in the middle of the block of text here>" and stuff like that. I prefer subtitles followed by larger icon images :).

[inDe_eD]

Fantastic guide. Could probably use more details on the nuances of dual-laning (pubbers rarely let you solo as Hag, plague solo "more important"), but fantastic nonetheless. +1 for premium.

[jay`t]

Fantastic guide. Could probably use more details on the nuances of dual-laning (pubbers rarely let you solo as Hag, plague solo "more important"), but fantastic nonetheless. +1 for premium.

Lost a game today that I tried dual laning hag. We went :nymp::wret: vs (from what I recall) a popular dual stun setup. Even with loads of mana from nymphy, we couldn't establish control, or get a kill, and I didn't have the level or item advantage, and went into midgame at equal or lesser level.

I agree that there needs to be more written, and i'll write more when I know more. What what I'm guessing, a hag dual lane has to consist of a strong ranged disabler / nuker that doesn't need a load of farm.

Potential candidates:

:andr: :deme: :slit: :vood: :valk: :pyro: :thun: :poll: :plag: :succ: :elec: :witc:

[noodle0117]

so which boots should i get after marchers? or should I just stay with ordinary boots until I get my other core items?

[ElementUser]

Here's a dual-laning Hag replay (although a bit unfair cause it was levent` and k`t in the same lane, with levent` playing Hag)

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=21875355

It was Hag + Panda vs. Engineer + Blacksmith btw.

Upgraded boots aren't THAT important on hag, but any sort of boots work on her IMO. Normally I find myself staying on regular boots until I pick up some other useful items.

[Jayrod]

Maybe dual lane hag should consist of a 'non-helpless' carry (like swiftblade and madman and NOT sandwraith) and just play her as sort of support/ganker beginning in that lane and relying on her abilities for mid-game ganking.

Basically, I think she's mostly ability driven for the first 25 minutes rather than item driven. blinkers are allowed to be squishy for a little while. She has SUCH good harass that if she MUST (not recommended) double lane maybe have her get the hard carry farmed while harassing with sonar (or throw 1 point in haunt for the swiftblade first blood potential in that lane). Then once its roaming time (7 imo) you go off and gank while farming with sonar in between.

The main problem with this is obviously mana constraints. If you have no items early you wont have the proper regen, save a decently quick bottle. What do you think is better though? Having a great harass and maybe taking a gold hit briefly early on while you harass (IMO you should still be trying to last hit vs your hardcarry as their time to really farm is the mid-game) and keep two of them at bay? Or being put in a lane with you as the early-mid carry... where likely your job will likely consist of harassing AND farming gold at the same time.

Hag should always be mid imo, and if there is a better or a shoe-in type mid already on your team you should trust them to be the ganker and not pick a second solo mid. Deadwoods a good example as a deadwood mid strengthens your outer lanes and provides the same ganking ability as hag. I know when Chaos picks hag we give him mid he wins the early game while I farm up the carry (either as the carry or babystting one). We have the most success with this set up and I don't recall many good double lane games from a Hag.

Sorry for rambling, I think there are better babysitters than hag for the hard carry but his early game hero damage makes him a better harass and could possibly lead to more last hits for your hard carry or something pushing them out of the lane altogether. Let me know how it goes... i'll probably be on after work to hear all about it.

Good guide, I'm gonna mess with her a bit on my alt account and see if I have any success with this.

P.S. Make an eloquent post about why we can't get people to port in to defend towers regularly (oh noes I gave up our strats)

[Verith]

Absolutely fantastic guide, you're tips on how to play, skill, and build hag are all spot on. I especially like how you mention a few times how great an early glowstone is (even if you aren't going to use it right away). This is one of my favorite things to do, especially grabbing an early glowstone to use in a frostwolf's later on, but making something else in the meantime.

One of the best guides I've read, thanks for that. Also, I think I might start trying tablet of command more on hag. The stats are perfect, and she often could really use a way to stop a channeler (especially when you're doing everything for your team and this is the one thing you can't do).

[TreeHorse]

Nice guide bro. This basically captures everything that happened when I've had a good game or a bad game with Hag.

[Pinilla1]

You might want to also mention that if you blink and try to Sonar Scream too fast, the animation will go off, you will lose mana, put the spell on cooldown but won't do any damage.

[TreeHorse]

You might want to also mention that if you blink and try to Sonar Scream too fast, the animation will go off, you will lose mana, put the spell on cooldown but won't do any damage.

This is false unless you are screaming prior to the blink cast.

The spell has been changed to affect invisible & Fogged units so the fog refresh timer is irrelevant.

[chibiemo]

its just like akasha of dota ^^

[Bonburner]

I personally love Hag myself .. of course I just screw around in the pubs nowadays.

:Steamboots::HarkonsBlade::ChargedHammer::KuldrasS heepstick::BehemothsHeart::FrostwolfsSkull: Is my dream build hehe.

I tend to end the games with ..

:Steamboots::TalismanOfExile::TalismanOfExile::Sac rificialStone::FrostfieldPlate::BehemothsHeart: Not too sure why I get sac stone now that I think about it hehe - like I said I just go with random gears.

Starting with :TrinketOfRestoratio and then :ScarabRing:. Then I get marchers / 2 :TalismanOfExile::TalismanOfExile:.
I don't remember when I stopped buying tangoes and such and started just buying a trinket ... a constant 2 hp regen I find to be more useful and I can keep forever until I don't need it.

I personally think you're underestimating the power of harkon's blade .. it also helps the team's nuke overall. Plus late game people still have on average more physical armor than magical armor.

[Uber_LOL]

Yay, you got premium guide status, well done! Great job!

[Von_Moltke]

Deserved.

[Stalker]

im not getting any preaty pictures though :(

[King_Fear]

Congratulations for having your guide premium'd. I'll have to pester sucker to give you the award. ;)

[Khakhan]

Great guide!!
http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae27/chaosmongler/hag_guide/batblastrange.jpg
Might be the greatest picture for displaying ability range ever.

[izzmad]

All aspects covered nicely.
Good work.

[jay`t]

Thanks for the kind words, all :)


im not getting any preaty pictures though :( Do you have photobucket firewalled? Is there a different service I should use?

[Nexus1]

good guide. But I do like cyclones on her. For the following reasons:

- easy to built and solves manaproblems
- easier to iniate, blink in spam sonar and ult, cyclone yourself and let your team come in. If things go wrong, your blink cd is at least almost over
- cancling homecoming stones, very handy because you are always on their heels.
- every second count, on many occasions you need to survive just a few more seconds to get another blink off, but every second counts, with cyclone you can buy yourself some more time by cycloning yourself.

Has a lot of utility, something that fits a cunning, disgusting hero like hag.

[ElementUser]

Congrats, you should thank me :)

[Drasha]

Congrats, you should thank me :)
i was looking at his guide before you pmed me :P

[Warslug]

Excellent guide !

I never thought about getting a tablet but now that you tell it, it sounds obvious... I tried it and it's awesome :)

[GsusC]

Great guide ! i've been playing hag since few days, tablet is a good idea to get improved

[recharge1]

Is Hag supposed to do something mid solo against Corrupted Disciple and Puppet Master ?

Seems I just cant get them, CD aoe hits too hard, and I cant handle to blink out most of the times plus he outhits me, and puppet is always strong with 2 disables + splash.

I go ok with him after lane phase, but I just can't outfarm most of heroes of mid, and I usually have to end w/o barely creep kills near my tower / going side lanes too soon like roaming getting no exp at all. I use blink+scream to lasthit + harass but most of the heroes hit harder after I've used skills and I've to port out / run if he decides to stay&fight.

When I get bottle + courier it goes better, but still, not much.

Any tips on this?

[jay`t]

this is a really good question, and puppet and CD can be two tough matches for hag.

You're not going to score a kill on CD, unless you way outplay him, so scratch that off the list. Good CDs are going to have mystic vestments and like 750hp at level 7, and no amount of towerdiving will keep you alive. On top of that, haunting him makes you slow to a crawl and he nukes HARD.

Luckily, CD has even less range than you, and his nuke pushes the lane hard. Don't worry about using blink and scream to harass. Your job vs disciple is to survive the lane, get last hits with scream, then kill the side lanes. If he's pushed you to the tower, use your attack to get the ranged creep low enough to kill it + at least one melee creep with your scream. Being that disciple might have the same idea as you, make sure your team has good warding, and call misses frequently. I'm going to look through my replays to see if I have a good one vs a good disciple. Unlike my plague rider replay, blinking to the CD is suicide.

Puppet is a natural counter to Hag with his strings and show. Luckily, he's just as squishy as you, doesn't have shaman headdress as a core item, and if you've been harassing him with Scream (while using it to get last hits), you can net a kill at six or seven. Make sure to know the radius of your Scream, don't let him puppet strings you out of range!

Tablet of command is a counter to his puppet strings, and they will get you free. Turn and run from him a bit, then tablet yourself. Like William Wallace, puppet can never take your freedom!

Puppet can only kill you through attrition. He might whiplash you every fifth hit, or hold + auto a bit, but you always should know when its coming. Use that bottle to keep your health high, and don't let him strings+show+ult you at 300 life.

One more thing about Puppet is that since he's a carry, feel free to do whatever you can to get kills on him. Dont be afraid to ask your Andromeda or Slither (or any stunner, really) to sneak mid to get a kill, and don't be afraid to swap lanes to 2v1 the puppet.

Sometimes, you won't flat out outfarm most mid heroes, and that's okay. Your goal is to secure your early-midgame dominance. Remember, you're a ganker - If your farm is particularly poor, don't be afraid to just stack exiles. You'll do fine.:)

[Well_Shebber]

Is Hag supposed to do something mid solo against Corrupted Disciple and Puppet Master ?

Seems I just cant get them, CD aoe hits too hard, and I cant handle to blink out most of the times plus he outhits me, and puppet is always strong with 2 disables + splash.

I go ok with him after lane phase, but I just can't outfarm most of heroes of mid, and I usually have to end w/o barely creep kills near my tower / going side lanes too soon like roaming getting no exp at all. I use blink+scream to lasthit + harass but most of the heroes hit harder after I've used skills and I've to port out / run if he decides to stay&fight.

When I get bottle + courier it goes better, but still, not much.

Any tips on this?

This matchup isn't actually as hard as it seems, you just need to alter your mindset a little bit. I'll throw up some replays of Hag vs. CD and Hag vs. Puppet when my match list stops crapping out, but until then, here's some tips.

Hag vs. CD
Most CDs will go something like a couple Runes and a bunch of stats, meaning that they're going to hit harder than you. His animation is also better than yours, meaning you're going to have to master Hag's animation to even compete with an equally skilled CD. Against an equally skilled CD, you will most likely not be able to kill him. Don't try too hard, and never tower dive him. Gank instead.

Get Blink and max out Sonar Scream first as per the guide. Backpush as much as you can, you want to be on your ledge while he is in the river. Sneak hits on him from the ledge whenever you're not last hitting; he won't be able to hit you back 90% of the time due to the fog and the miss chance up hills. Use the fog to get close enough to him to Sonar him, then beat on him with autoattacks. If he AoEs, Blink out to avoid it. If he doesn't, either trade attacks with him (he is attacking up hill, so you should come out on top in terms of HP) or chase him back up his hill.

Best time to kill him is when he goes to gank/get runes. He can't escape Bat Blast in the tight river. Only blow your Blast if you can actually follow up and kill him with Sonar and autoattacks.

Lastly, be careful about Haunting him, as it will do more (initial) damage+slow to you than to him. Def. use it when chasing him down though.

Hag vs. Puppet
Same problem here; he does more damage than you and has a better animation. The difference is that Puppet has crap for HP and no defense (CD runs fast) other than his Hold.

This is a fairly similar matchup, with a few key differences. First of all, Puppet's HP is so hilariously bad that one scream at levels 5-7 will take him down to half HP. This means that if you're using the same strategy of using backpushing and the fog to harass him, he won't even be able to get close to the creeps.

Good Puppets will Puppet Show you and either last hit some creeps or hit you a few times. Bad Puppets will spam hold on you and autoattack you until it breaks. If he is a Bad Puppet, stand and fight when he holds you. Sonar if you can get in range. When you get him to ~50% HP, feel free to go for the kill with Blast + Sonar. Puppets usually don't like to leave the lane until they farm a few items, and will often give you rune control for little or no effort. If you get a good rune or have an opportunity, go for a kill from behind (either the ancients ledge on legion side or the jungle ramp on hellbourne side). Open with Bat Blast, blink in and Sonar. You will likely have to tower dive him a little bit, but don't dive past 2 or 3 hits. If he Holds + Ults you next to his tower, you're toast. Remember that his Hold disables your Blink.

When you're ganking the side lanes, feel free to pass by mid and hit him with a Sonar to keep him on low HP (and thus scared and less likely to try to farm!)

[ElementUser]

Make sure to know the radius of your Scream, don't let him puppet strings you out of range!This might be difficult because Scream has a radius of 400/450/475/500 and Puppeteer's Hold has 600 range (though Puppet Master still has to reach his cast point, but that's usually negligible). Of course that's assuming you want to hit Puppet as well as the creepwave.

You might have to rely on the hill & fog advantage more when you're against CD or Puppet. Oh the person above me covers it really nicely too.

[jay`t]

This might be difficult because Scream has a radius of 400/450/475/500 and Puppeteer's Hold has 600 range (though Puppet Master still has to reach his cast point, but that's usually negligible). Of course that's assuming you want to hit Puppet as well as the creepwave.



You can wiggle around a lot in his Hold and often times take a step towards him and hit him with your Scream, which will probably do more damage than his autoattacks. The positional error that I meant was getting held completely out of range and not being able to retaliate at all :)

HonDB lsits hold as having a 400 radius, so there's quite a bit of wiggle room if this is true

[izzmad]

Replays .9a

Match 23983450 - Decent hag play on my end, made a lot of mistakes but maintained relevancy throughout the game and ended up winning. Even 60 minutes in the game, hag is a lethal hero. Build: Tablet of Command -> Glowstone -> Wards -> Nullstone -> Frostwolf. Features raging by yours truly!

Match 23830598 Very poor beginning game, had to buy cheap items to turn it around and eventually win. Build: Exiles/Supply -> Glowstone ->Steamboots ->Nomes ->Frostwolf. Featuring an accursed that is totally stoned and KSs me a bunch!

Match 24187876 This is what I would consider a perfect laning phase as Hag. The game itself was poor, but the first twelve minutes of gametime in this replay are a very good example of how to survive against an aggressive mid using crow bottling and tangoes, ganking the side lanes, runewhoring, using the crow to scout the runes, and getting a kill vs the opponent solo when he moves just slightly out of position. If you need help laning mid, watch the first 12 game minutes of this replay (or around 12:50 on the replay clock).

I'll try to get some more


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Playing Hag mid vs Pyro. Denied the shiEt outta him and lured out some stuns.
Ended up as Champ of Newerth, carrying the game with roming and warding against a 17-8 chronos.
19-5 Hag with Staff, Sheepstick and Harkons, 1550 game though. Normal -AP mode. Some of them were easy prey, but the replay will help ppl understand Hag better.

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25010993

[_Alice]

why NOT maxing Haunt first , i found it better than Scream -,.....,-

[izzmad]

why NOT maxing Haunt first , i found it better than Scream -,.....,-

this is adressed in the guide. but I'll help you out with a simple note:

max scream over haunt when you feel more like ganking and much teamfights are not be be expected early. this way you do more damage to single or double targets on a lane with scream (most likely you are able to scream him/them 2 times), than you could ever with haunt. If played right and mb a stun ally, you dont need your maxed-out-haunted-ultimate to finish off 2 ppl on a lane.

[esJ]

played a game earlier hag solo mid vs vindicator, he pretty much shut me down with constant dots, didnt seem to be much I could do. Any pointers? He was spamming sages at lvl1 and kept my mana/hp low all through the laning phase until I got my (horrendously late) bottle.

[jay`t]

vindicator mid is not an easy fight, however, your blink costs less mana than his sages lore and even at level 1, has a shorter CD than sage's lore.

play defensively and stay back. don't let him get glaive autoattacks off on you. conserve mana until you get your bottle.

just so you know, in general, vindicator is a decent pick against hag when the game enters teamfight stage. being silenced for 3(?) seconds between casts is really unfun. you need to play differently against him, similarly to how you play differently against heroes like behemoth and tempest

from PMs and the responses here, it seems people have difficulty playing hag solo mid. I'm going to add more strategies to the guide and find some more replays to add. Also, i'll look at the replay listed above, seems good!!

[Icx]

After playing her a couple of times, and thinking she was a bit underwhelming as a hero, I read the guide again, watched replays, and when I get her in SD tried her again.

Went against pyro in mid, he was quite aggresive thinking I would go down fast, never had any trouble + killed him.

Early game was quite akward, didn't get much chance to gank, the other team started pushing very early.

Went 12/4/13, and made some mistakes that costed me my life.

Conclusion, I absolutely love her, when you get the hang of her she is such a great hero.

bought a tablet of command in that game, and it's such a great item on her, still have to use it more often, because I'm not used to it, but it has so many good uses that i'll prolly be getting it everytime

Only downside to her imo is her attack-animation, I always end up cancelling the whole auto-attack :p

match-id: 2534624
(for people that are interested in it, and tips are always welcome)

[ElementUser]

Yeah more information regarding her attack animation & projectile...

0.56s attack point, 0.41s cast backswing, 0.45 turn rate, 1500 projectile speed (units/second)

While she does have a high attack point, her fast projectile speed sort of compensates for this.

[BattleHungeR]

this guide is awsome great work:)

[sPloOsH]

for dual laning i like to go for linkens and stat items... build her up to be a farmer asap... skill build is debateable.... since you level so much slower... i avoid getting the ult early since it costs so much mana

[Cerbere]

Excellent guide! Allows great killing/surviving potential.

[jay`t]

After playing her a couple of times, and thinking she was a bit underwhelming as a hero, I read the guide again, watched replays, and when I get her in SD tried her again.


Went 12/4/13, and made some mistakes that costed me my life.


bought a tablet of command in that game, and it's such a great item on her, still have to use it more often, because I'm not used to it, but it has so many good uses that i'll prolly be getting it everytime


I'll check this and the other replay out when I get home, computer been on the fritz. I'm glad you tried tablet :) Such an underrated item


Yeah more information regarding her attack animation & projectile...

While she does have a high attack point, her fast projectile speed sort of compensates for this.

Thanks for the numbers, Mister element! Hag can kind of 'sneak in' hits because of her high projectile speed. It's weird, but it lets you survive tough mid lanes against 600 range nukers.


this guide is awsome great work:)
thanks!


for dual laning i like to go for linkens and stat items... build her up to be a farmer asap... skill build is debateable.... since you level so much slower... i avoid getting the ult early since it costs so much mana

The imfamous dual lane hag dilemma. Tried this again a couple times 25491890 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25491890) ( i think?) was a dual lane hag game (against my will, mind you), that went awful. Once I FINALLY got some items, I started to do okay, and we eventually won, but the lane I was in got smashed. IIRC, (cant check it here), my build was mass talismans of exile + power supply to glowstone and steamboots to luxury. Final stats 7/7/25 162ck/12cd 524xp/min 223 g/min. This is just something I have to get better at =\ I could see the usefulness of linkens on Hag, but you'll not get that in lane, and honestly, once you've acquired 5k gold or so, you should have plenty of items to make yourself useful.


Excellent guide! Allows great killing/surviving potential.

thanks! bolded the surviving part because people seem to think that just because you have blink, you're unkillable. A popular (and wrong) early build with Hag is to mass scarabs and build to hellflower. Congratulations, you are now level 12 and have lik e900hp =\. Being a quasi-initiator with pbaoe spells, you're going to be in the thick of the action and are going to inevitably eat stuns.

i disagree about harkons...my typical build is steamboots, SoTM, sheep stick, harkins, 1 +6 int necklaces, wards/homecoming. and it is absolutely amazing. if they get magic armor, harkins reduces 5 magic armor, magic their shamans less effective. with that item build listed above you have enough mana/regen to leave harkins on constantly. and 5 magic armor is something like 22% iirc...so bat blast, and sonar scream hitting 22% harder seems like a good deal to me. and its easy to be in fog as their team is rushing, she someone from fog, auto attack their support then ult/sonar and insta gib support heroes.

oh and going SoTM and then sheepstick you get a lot of +str(20 or more). so you gain a significant amount of survivability. adding harkons just allows you to blow people up...especially if you are doing a little mid/late game ganking...as 1v1 you will wreck anything with a harkons.

[jay`t]

Playing Hag mid vs Pyro. Denied the shiEt outta him and lured out some stuns.
Ended up as Champ of Newerth, carrying the game with roming and warding against a 17-8 chronos.
19-5 Hag with Staff, Sheepstick and Harkons, 1550 game though. Normal -AP mode. Some of them were easy prey, but the replay will help ppl understand Hag better.

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=25010993

Nice replay, had some great chases in there and some good ults. I'd fight with you over STOM rush but that's really splitting hairs :)

I'll try harkons out again

[jay`t]

match-id: 2534624
(for people that are interested in it, and tips are always welcome)

couldnt find this one =\ glad to see other people trying tablet out on her, though!

[Hi]

great guide!

[NaNNy`]

what can i do when I found Moon Queen in the middle? Whit her first skill, 6s of CD and a big range, I'm always in trouble.
Any suggestion?

[ElementUser]

You have more range than Moon Queen and your Sonar Scram harass should be much more potent than her Beam spam.

[Numerio]

thx for that guide... maybe will make me a good hag player someday :)

[Armsved]

Im doing haunt over sonar, but nice guide anyway.

Had 2 pretty nice games today.

26296784: 1600+. Pretty sweet game, pure ownage with some luck :) Ended 25-8-24

26339787: 1650+ Didnt get mid and enden up dead 3 times in a row, didnt die after that and ended 13-3-11.

However the support heroes are playing very very good in both games.

Hag is the best <3 And thx for making a guide.

[NaNNy`]

You have more range than Moon Queen and your Sonar Scram harass should be much more potent than her Beam spam.

I tried but it's always a fail: if she have bottle and the player has a good rune control it's over.
Her moon beam has 6s CD, 90/100/110/120 of mana cost, 800 range, 75/150/225/300 of dmg
Hag's sonarscream has 7s CD, 140 of mana cost (at all level), 400/450/475/500 radius (not range), 85/165/225/300 of dmg

The mana consumption is in favor of Moon, the range and CD too. Also the damage it's only 10/15 over the sonar at the first 2 lvl and then it's equal, too little benefit.

Now, we all know that the first problem for the hag is mana, very very low and the mana potion regen is slow.
If I had to fight Moon like you said I must, first of all, be more close to her and that's the second problem: she saw me, she do moonbeam, I'm stun for about a second, she is fast and can easily reach me to attack.

Really, it's an hard battle

[RTBardic]

I tried but it's always a fail: if she have bottle and the player has a good rune control it's over.
Her moon beam has 6s CD, 90/100/110/120 of mana cost, 800 range, 75/150/225/300 of dmg
Hag's sonarscream has 7s CD, 140 of mana cost (at all level), 400/450/475/500 radius (not range), 85/165/225/300 of dmg

The mana consumption is in favor of Moon, the range and CD too. Also the damage it's only 10/15 over the sonar at the first 2 lvl and then it's equal, too little benefit.

Now, we all know that the first problem for the hag is mana, very very low and the mana potion regen is slow.
If I had to fight Moon like you said I must, first of all, be more close to her and that's the second problem: she saw me, she do moonbeam, I'm stun for about a second, she is fast and can easily reach me to attack.

Really, it's an hard battle

Moon Queen has very little attack range, so you should be able to hit with Scream easily. In addition, before MQ hits 6 you should be getting the majority of runes because of your blink. This matchup will come down to who gets more runes -- it's your job to ensure that person is you. If that means giving up a creep kill or two, do it anyway as full bottle > 100 gold anytime.

[NaNNy`]

any replay to see?

[ElementUser]

I tried but it's always a fail: if she have bottle and the player has a good rune control it's over.
Her moon beam has 6s CD, 90/100/110/120 of mana cost, 800 range, 75/150/225/300 of dmg
Hag's sonarscream has 7s CD, 140 of mana cost (at all level), 400/450/475/500 radius (not range), 85/165/225/300 of dmg

The mana consumption is in favor of Moon, the range and CD too. Also the damage it's only 10/15 over the sonar at the first 2 lvl and then it's equal, too little benefit.

Now, we all know that the first problem for the hag is mana, very very low and the mana potion regen is slow.
If I had to fight Moon like you said I must, first of all, be more close to her and that's the second problem: she saw me, she do moonbeam, I'm stun for about a second, she is fast and can easily reach me to attack.

Really, it's an hard battle

Just beat her to the runes, there's no reason why she should be beating you to the runes.

Yes it's true Moon Queen has a better attack point than Wretched Hag (by 0.16s), but you have more range (220 more), a faster projectile speed (by 600) units/second) and a better spell for harass & to push the lanes (so if she still wants to go for the runes, she would be losing experience & gold). Just make sure you use Scream on the wave (and MQ if possible) a few seconds before the rune spawns. You forgot that Scream is AoE while Moon Queen's Beam is single-target, which means that you have the power to decide when to push the lane.

It's also true that Moon Queen has 8 higher minimum base damage and 6 higher maximum base damage, but all that means is that Moon Queen is using hill advantage and just outlast-hitting you. You should harass her more with your superior range and take the hill advantage for yourself.

Unless your lane control skills fail, you shouldn't have a problem 1v1 against MQ solo mid

[TreeHorse]

I will say that I've been chewed up by a MQ mid who bottle-crowed. It wasn't fun.

[jay`t]

Yeah, an equally skilled MQ mid can be tough just because she can nuke as hard as you, and your mana situation isn't great.

Honestly, since they're putting their squishy no-escape-mech carry in mid, a good idea is just to get a stunner to occasionally stop by and squash her. Having MQ on your team is a late-game investment, and if your team actively hunts her down early, their returns wont be as good. Additionally, skilling beam early pushes back her midgame ricing, which basically gives your team additional time.

So if you're having a tough time:

*Play to survive. 400g mystic vestments should be a priority if you're getting hurt.
*Ask for assistance from other lanes (killing their hard carry is always good). She has low Hp and no escape mech. A slither or andro coming her way will ruin her day!
*Try to get the runes, but please dont get caught at a rune against a level 6 queen with your blink on CD.
*Bottle-crow is good too!

[ElementUser]

Yeah Bottle-Crow Moon Queen is a different story though

[NaNNy`]

sorry but I don't follow you, what is bottle-crow? Bottle + pretenders's crown?

[TreeHorse]

Draining a bottle, then using a flying courier to take it to the fountain and bring it back to you. It really is ridiculous. You get a full bottle every ~30 secs or so.

[jay`t]

upgrade to pro

hmmmmmmm no idea what to do !:*(

I'll look into this tomorrow

[gattopardo]

Just to point out that wolf is indeed a terrific item for hag. Today I kited to death an Accursed using frostwolf and blinking around him. He ended up making a hellflower just to stop it =D

[belanglos]

Pros:
Also carries a weird thing on her back!

NOW THATS DEFINATELY A HUGE PRO ;D

nice read though - well done!

[Debbye]

I would like to add,that post haste is a good choice for hag. Adds a lot of mobility to her. Coupled with her blink and sonar scream,you can farm astonishingly fast. 95 movespeed bonus is also quite nice.I always try to get post haste on her,you should mention that it is a viable choice.

[Fepsion]

Nice guide only thing that i disagree was the skill build.
Mine is 1 blink, max haunt and sonar scream, ult max ofc when you can last i will put points to blink. I use it as a escape skill. Cool guide one more time =D

[esJ]

Why would the guide say that posthaste is a viable choice ... when it isnt?

[nickknife]

no staff , no competition.

staff is a must have on hag

[KopfHand]

no staff , no competition.

staff is a must have on hag

^this

[jay`t]

NOW THATS DEFINATELY A HUGE PRO ;D



I thought so!!


I would like to add,that post haste is a good choice for hag. Adds a lot of mobility to her.

Thing is, hag has a lot of issues she needs to deal with before posthaste is even an option. She really needs to get some kind of early mana, she needs some sort of HP fairly quickly, she might need to ward, etc etc. This gobbles up all her early gold, and then her midgame is spent roaming and wrecking people.

Look at it this way: From levels 7-13, what do you need more, post haste movespeed and port, or steamboots + glowstone? Every single time, the answer is the latter because you're initiating ganks, you're constantly in combat, and you need that hp/mp to cast more spells.

Post haste is only a real option, in my opinion, if the game has gone super late.


Nice guide only thing that i disagree was the skill build.
Mine is 1 blink, max haunt and sonar scream, ult max ofc when you can last i will put points to blink. I use it as a escape skill. Cool guide one more time =D

To each his own, I really think a 7sec cd 300 dmg nuke is too good to pass up:) Remember, sonar scream not only does more damage overall than haunt, but you can use it to blow the occasional creep wave apart.


Just to point out that wolf is indeed a terrific item for hag.

I build frostwolf probably more than I should :)



no staff , no competition.

staff is a must have on hag

Many, many people like staff on Hag, and it DOES keep your ult relevant longer. The thing is, against good players, they WILL spend 400g to negate part of your ult damage, and at that point, you're better off buffing your autoattack and chasing.

Remember: Going staff is a conscious choice to delay your sheep or frostwolf. Hag is already deadly strong midgame and she tapers off mid-late to late. Only pick staff if you're going to end the game with it. Staff is situational, just like everything else about this hero (except max scream at 7 and ult when able:))

appreciate the comments. I havent really had any good hag games lately to add to the replays section, which is a shame. (I've also been trying to learn other heroes:P)

I have got to do something about bandwidth exceeded.

[enche]

one of my fave guides :D

[blueseph]

congrats on premium!

[Kaelillidan]

I honestly find QoP to be ineffective if she does not get the necessary mana regeneration to constantly nuke. I think the very first thing you should begin to build on her is her maga regen items like Sustainer (Nullstone works spectacular, and gives you resistance vs. alot of aimed spells - even omnislash :O) While bloodstone honestly doesn't deserve it's spot in QoP's item build, the SotM should do fine, reducing her ult cooldown / improving it, and giving her additional HP and Mana. I would honestly probably end up with a Frostwolf Skull, super amazing at catching runaway tanks.

[izzmad]

I honestly find QoP to be ineffective if she does not get the necessary mana regeneration to constantly nuke.
First, it's wretched hag, not QoP anymore. Second, a bottle is (or should be) enough to use your skills with precision. Youre not supposed to spellfaarm the **** outta waves and push them stupidly, as well as youre not supposed to Frostwulf-chase people to death with 10 autoattacks. Seriously, Frostwulf buff works on more or less any INT as it works on Hag. There is nothing special about FW+Hag. You dont need to tank. You dont need to attackdamage in the first place. You do not want to chase down enemies just for the frost-slow. You need to strike fast, get in - (ult) - damage damage - (ult) get out and leave corpses and/or watch them die by your damage-over-time. You got blink. If you need frostwulf to chase people and think thats by any means necessary then i got bad news for you: YOURE DOING IT WRONG!
At the point u got Steamboots you are most likely able to blink in, scream and haunt, then blink out or scream again and gtfo of crimescene. Thats the way to play hag. Useless to make an item core like nullstone, which (in this case) is just to bypass any effort of positioning to pull off your spellcombo. Staff asap. Always.
In the following is yesterdays +1600 game where I randomed Hag and got mid vs archer, ending up 11-1-16 (couldve been quite more but at some point it was not necessary to backup my allies with drawing attention to me), Mana Batt + Bottle + Steamboots + SotM + Kuldra + Harkons.

Match ID: 27539952
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=27539952

I missed like 1 or 2 runes all game and rushed SotM as usual, but this time only at 25min. Our enemies were not that good (y well its 1600 only..) but I'm convinced without the early game overall presence of mine, the game would have had a different outcome.
However, the damage and low CD when its boosted allows you to "waste" it on single heroes or to instantly pushback creepwaves when enemy is in push. I strongly recommend getting mana battery on Hag, cause it fulfills every purpose to this character. Blink in -> spread damage while enemy actions boost your battery -> finish them -> uncharge battery and get out. This character has to be used right situational, thus relying on an item like nullstone is just wrong and less beneficial than mostly anything else.


ps: Notice the Hatchet :D. :wret: Hatchet Hag!!! 8^I

[Pancakes`]

I followed this guide to the letter when I read it, over time I made a couple of alterations but my early game stays the same pretty much. Boots+Bottle+Early Int is all you need to start racking up the kills. I love her playstyle, very fun, the guide works. Just played a game where we were getting crushed early so I went with the guide's recommendations of "Getting dominated hard?". Several kills later, we were pushing 2 of their lanes down and got a genocide in our favor.

Harkons is a solid choice after Nomes I think, if the other team doesn't have much cc.

Awesome guide. Thanks.

[esJ]

Just finished a game where I dominated midgame with hag, vs a pubstomp (they were kinda bad, but still). Check teamfights from 10min->35min for examples of nice ulti placement and positioning. Lots of of invis rune skullduggery went down in that game.
Finished 30-6-12, 2x champion of newerth etc

MatchID: 27911958
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=27911958

[Omnom1]

Seriously, Frostwulf buff works on more or less any INT as it works on Hag. There is nothing special about FW+Hag. You dont need to tank. You dont need to attackdamage in the first place. You do not want to chase down enemies just for the frost-slow. You need to strike fast, get in - (ult) - damage damage - (ult) get out and leave corpses and/or watch them die by your damage-over-time. You got blink. If you need frostwulf to chase people and think thats by any means necessary then i got bad news for you: YOURE DOING IT WRONG!
At the point u got Steamboots you are most likely able to blink in, scream and haunt, then blink out or scream again and gtfo of crimescene. Thats the way to play hag. Useless to make an item core like nullstone, which (in this case) is just to bypass any effort of positioning to pull off your spellcombo. Staff asap. Always.
In the following is yesterdays +1600 game where I randomed Hag and got mid vs archer, ending up 11-1-16 (couldve been quite more but at some point it was not necessary to backup my allies with drawing attention to me), Mana Batt + Bottle + Steamboots + SotM + Kuldra + Harkons.

Match ID: 27539952
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=27539952

I missed like 1 or 2 runes all game and rushed SotM as usual, but this time only at 25min. Our enemies were not that good (y well its 1600 only..) but I'm convinced without the early game overall presence of mine, the game would have had a different outcome.


So you pretty much followed the guide's advice about sotm > frostwolf's. Nice! Doesn't make it any less of an above-average choice on her when it applies on haunt (and haunted? fairly certain). Also, lol 1-14-3 chronos.

[jay`t]

frostwolf on hag is fantastic because it buffs both your auto and your casting, makes you tankier, and lets you chase them down with less distance. She can also farm it a lot easier than most. it fits every single thing hag needs (except mana regen). thus, yes, frostwolf is better on hag than most ints.

also, had a funny game earlier. don't actually watch the replay cuz it was kinda lame.. but the items are funny

when things get bad, buy a doombringer.

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=27924843

[Debbye]

My usual item buid on hag , when soloing mid : (I should probably note that I am not much of a team player)
Sustainer (under 8-12 min) -> Post Haste (under 20) -> Staff of the Master -> Null Stone -> Frostfield Plate -> Behemoth's Heart -> Kudra's sheepstick.
Check out my last match,it is a good example of my gameplay style with hag. I farm hell of a lot, never stay in one place, always blink on cooldown (when mana is not an issue,ofc)
In the above mentioned match, we had lost, and there was a good part of my fault in this defeat, but I am a selfish son of a *****, I never got killed after all, and scored 13 kills, which means bloodbath.

[ElementUser]

frostwolf on hag is fantastic because it buffs both your auto and your casting

Well it only makes Haunt a super slow for the first 3 seconds lol. And allows you to cast more spells because of increased mana pool. Not saying Frostwolf isn't a good item (because it is a good item on Hag)

Any advice on soloing mid against Soulstealer? I had to use Scream much more often against him to prevent him from getting last hits. Of course this lets me out-rice him pretty easily for the laning phase :)

[jay`t]

Sounds like you did what you had to do, soulstealer is one of the mids that you grab rank 1 sonar scream at level 1 and not be afraid to use it to keep him from denying you to death. An early mana battery is the only 'unusual' thing I do vs him, as those frequent double nukes will fill it quickly.

But if the SS is just an awesome player, he's going to outfarm you as he hits 5 and 6. At that time I'd just roam let others take over.

One more thing about SS is that harassing his jungle is effective against him. usually you can go, or you can bug your long lane to check it when he goes missing for some surprise sex

LASTLY the frostwolf buffing your casting is referring to the max mana it adds, which is something you really need all game. :)

[Debbye]

By the way, I played queen of pain the other day and I noticed how stronger than her counterpart hag is. First of all, cooldowns. Sonar scream cd in Dota is 10 seconds, whereas in HoN it's 7 seconds. Her ultimate doesn't apply slow to your enemies there. Haunt cooldown is something like 16 seconds.
And the her blink/attack animation blows back there in Dota.Though she looks somewhat sexier =)
Enjoy her while she is as she is.

[ElementUser]

Scream of Pain's cooldown is also 7 seconds in DotA. Shadow Strike's cooldown matches Haunt's cooldown.

The only things that REALLY differentiate QoP from Hag is Blink cast point, Scream hitting invis/fogged units in HoN and the Ultimate debuff

[Debbye]

Must be changes in the recent patches, since I played 6.59.

[Hi]

I like to level haunt earlier instead of scream.

Haunt helps alot with the ult for level 6 ganks. Slow is awesome

[SK_UC]

Replay - 28144247

Average psr 1650-1750

19/2/9 hag, went nomes, frostwolf, then half of savage mace

The bloodlust is kinda cheesy, but there is a lot of good hag play, and an amazing 2v4 where my ult hits 4 and leads to quad kill.

Always go frostwolf skull, shooting snowflakes intimidates the other team.

[jay`t]

Replay - 28144247


Always go frostwolf skull, shooting snowflakes intimidates the other team.
QFT :FrostwolfsSkull:

[ElementUser]

In case you're curious Chaos, here's my Wretched Hag replay vs a decent Soulstealer mid.

27661617

Yes I did die 2 stupid deaths (didn't think Shadowraze/Demon Hand would do that much damage at level 3) and the one where Soulstealer just "decided" to go uphill on my side of the river. Then again though, the first Ward placed bot failed & couldn't see the rune. I almost died a third time (lol) when I tried to kill Soulstealer's courier.

However, despite these deaths I still madly outfarmed Soulstealer throughout the game (especially early-mid). And I went ganking a lot too. Shows how imba her ricing can be :)

[Neru]

Nice-ish guide. Very bold statements like "NEVER get Ghost marchers". I get them for the early damage and early chase. In my opinion they just make your early game even stronger, and if you really have to you can sell and buy Steamboots later (never done this though). You get like 420ms + blink meaning NO-ONE can run or hide.

[jay`t]

Some people like ghost marchers on lots of heroes. I'd never ever recommend it, but if you are comfortable enough with handling a low-hp hero with ghosties, go for it. Personal preference trumps everything (especially with this hero), and a guide is just that - a guide :)

Very bold statements are there to drive the point home, and bring attention to things they might otherwise overlook. It forces the reader's attention.

Also: Got the pictures fixeD:)

[WhoWasPhone]

That is so wrong, Hag is a crazy Late game hero, U just have to built him the right way

[commy]

Hey, great guide.

I've found jereziah to be the best laning partner if you're forced into a dual lane. Hags blink allows for easy heal nukes, with hag following with her own.

[Zholistic]

Great guide; Hag is my best hero by far. I pretty much always go bottle->steamboots->nomes->nullstone.

I like nullstone because it is a beefy item and the buildup for it has great stats and great mana regen. It is of course better against certain teams but really the only thing that kills hag is a strong disable which nullstone usually blocks.

[ElementUser]

For the first time ever I bought Null Stone on Hag (mainly because I was getting owned in the beginning). Worked pretty well after I got SotM first because I needed the stats from it & the ult CD reduction.

[jay`t]

Hey, great guide.

I've found jereziah to be the best laning partner if you're forced into a dual lane. Hags blink allows for easy heal nukes, with hag following with her own.

Thats actually not a bad idea, lol

Regarding nullstone, I can see how it can be good, and I've used it a couple times with fairly good results. I just have a hard time accepting it because its sooooo expensive:)

i gotta play with it more, thats for sure

[ElementUser]

Thats actually not a bad idea, lol

Regarding nullstone, I can see how it can be good, and I've used it a couple times with fairly good results. I just have a hard time accepting it because its sooooo expensive:)

i gotta play with it more, thats for sure

Prepare for cost reduction next patch!

[jay`t]

cost reduction would tilt it from being a "boy this item would be good if i could ever afford it" to a "buy this item a lot" item, especially if it keeps its sustainer component.

[wala]

Been playing hag recently and I like her a lot.

Does she have a terrible attack animation? (I think it's called attack point) Because though I'm getting used to it, half the time I try to harass by cancelling it doesn't attack at all. I think if my opponents aren't terrible last hitters I'll have trouble lasthitting too.

I think it's like zeph and tb's attack.

[ElementUser]

0.56s attack point (the time it takes for the attack to actually take place) is higher than most heroes. In HoN I'd say 0.4 is the average, with anything lower than that being really good and anything higher being slightly worse

[jay`t]

for the record

puzzlebox is really good on hag

gonna play a few more games with it but dayummm

[RealTechN9ne]

You are suggesting Shieldbreaker as a luxury, yet put Harkons in the "not recommended" section? Wtf

[jay`t]

i think this might be an incorrect labeling of harkons

gotta test it ya know

[danneyO]

Good guide

[Saharez]

Harkons is a very situational item on Hag, I believe it should only be bought when your carry decides to go harkons aswell, unless thats the case shieldbreaker seems to be the superior choice because it improves the carries damage output aswell as your own.

[Noob4u]

Im interested to see a skill/item build for a DPS hag. Recommendations any1?

[venonat]

Really like the guide. Hag is definitely the strongest early-mid game hero in my opinion. I always rush frost wolf skull though. i start with two null talismans strength steam boots. than grab +10 to all stat item. followed with slow than glowstone. The reason for the +10 is so that you can have the mana you need to be porting and blinking around the map ganking. The most important thing to remember about hag is that you NEED to solo. and you NEED to carry homecoming stones!!! a hag that doesn't gank is pointless. in most team fights hag is the deciding factor. Also i always get lvl 4 haunt before i lvl sonar scream. Hag really doesn't have the mana in my opinion to be spamming. she should be saving mana to go to the next lane and killing with ult/haunt. not many heroes can survive that,especially if there is an ally around. After froswolf skull i get charged hammer for several reasons. 1 the attack speed. hag can pummel enemy heroes and also push lanes unrealistically fast with her lightning. 2. if you hit 3 heroes with your ult. after auto attacking you should trigger atleast 1-2 lightnings adding additional damage to the situation. 3. hag can only carry if she match the dps of other carries, so grabbing charged hammer than riftshards you can really take out intel heroes late game in a matter of seconds. IDK huge hag fan watch some of my hag replays usually starts out with a blood bath if im lucky.

[OhBob]

About the "NONO" items.. I disagree.

Heart isn't bought for regen, it is bought for CD decrease. And that is so freaking strong for her. Not only she'll blink faster but she'll also ult faster, so it is a good option.

And for Harkon's/thunder... got an amazing farm? Don't buy shieldbreaker! You have 3 nukes, you really should get Harkon's, even if th e other team has magic armor (5-5 is almost as good as 10-5).

Now, you bought Nome's Wisdom right? Now think with me. Harkon's manacost is 100 per hit. So, not only you'll have "true damage" for HITS AND SPELLS (cancel enemy's armor) but also you'll regenerate 25HP for each hit, and that's a huge "lifesteal". Well, with charged hammer (thunderclaw sucks by itself for her) you'll hit incredibly fast, so yea, you'll be a mad carry.

Note that this is only for some exceptional games that you farm and kill a lot since the early game.

Think about those 3 items together, and maybe you can state it as an alternative build.

[ElementUser]

^

Actually, Harkon's Blade only costs 50 mana per attack now.

[jay`t]

tried going nomes harkons but got harkons too slowly and it wasnt that great

gonna try again!

[Blessed_]

(or you could just get puzzlebox)

[wala]

One game I went 24-0 where I went bottle-marchers-nomes-steamboots-staff-harkon's.

I didn't get to finish harkon in time. Though I probably bought about 10 wards that game, I don't see it being finished D=

But it is a great item on her.

[Sauron`]

Love you Guide and Love queen of pain back in the day.
but I CANNOT stand hags voice, the one hero i have to turn off voices for.

but the model is nice IMO. very detailed with the bats and all

[wala]

Up until now I thought nome's reduced manacost by 25%.

How does rushing sacrificial stone work with good farm? Bottle-marchers-manatube-glowstone-lifetube-beastheart-pickled brain. With Nome's I did have to heal at fountain couple times but with sacrificial I shouldn't have to go back. And with a blink it seems you can retain the charges, making you scale better.

[jay`t]

sac stone is a good item, but expensive, and doesnt give you clicky abilities or increase your autoattack, thus making it not so great on hag. i'd personally rather have nomes + part of a frostwolf than sac stone

[wala]

Played a couple pub games where I rushed sac stone... second game I even skipped boots. I got it around the 22-24 minute mark and steamboots soon came after. With such a late complete core, I can't go staff anymore (though I got it around the 30 min mark, but my team was completely dominating). Still, I'm wondering if it's worth it to go staff because stone and staff give her a buttload of hp and mana + regen and she's set for it.

[pyrated]

not a fan of sac stone

hag generally dies to single target disables, which are countered best by nullstone

having a lot of health/health regen is not really that important compared to avoiding those disables

[wala]

I assume frostwolf's apply to those in her ult?

How do you guys build her then? Rush for it after boots and bottle?

[Avi1231]

Don't care much for your guide. I kinda prefer the way she's built in DotA. I've seen some pretty epic QoP in the past couple months and things like Shieldbreaker are far more viable on her than you give them credit for. Also, I didn't care for the fact that you barely even touched on how useful an item Power Supply is on Hag. She's one of the best gankers in the game and Power Supply is one of the best items for gankers there is (see debate in DotA community on magic stick being OP).

I generally get Sheep if my team is lacking CC or if I find that enemies are escaping with next to no health and I go hardcore DPS if we have oodles of CC. I don't understand your point about Harkon's on Hag. If people generally build Hood against you why wouldn't you get Harkon's? My friends and I recently experimented with Harkon's and Rift Shards on Hag and it's epic rape. You even mentioned in your guide how Hag's agi gain is good enough to net her decent attack speed once she gets some stats.

Last point, Shieldbreaker > BKB and Hag is just one more reason for an enemy team to get BKBs against you.

[Padawanabee]

Frostwolf only applies it's slow on single target spells. So it would make Haunt pretty killer, but would not affect her ult.

Sac stone is overkill on her, definitely better choices out there for Hag.

[jay`t]

Don't care much for your guide. I kinda prefer the way she's built in DotA. I've seen some pretty epic QoP in the past couple months and things like Shieldbreaker are far more viable on her than you give them credit for. Also, I didn't care for the fact that you barely even touched on how useful an item Power Supply is on Hag. She's one of the best gankers in the game and Power Supply is one of the best items for gankers there is (see debate in DotA community on magic stick being OP).

I generally get Sheep if my team is lacking CC or if I find that enemies are escaping with next to no health and I go hardcore DPS if we have oodles of CC. I don't understand your point about Harkon's on Hag. If people generally build Hood against you why wouldn't you get Harkon's? My friends and I recently experimented with Harkon's and Rift Shards on Hag and it's epic rape. You even mentioned in your guide how Hag's agi gain is good enough to net her decent attack speed once she gets some stats.

Last point, Shieldbreaker > BKB and Hag is just one more reason for an enemy team to get BKBs against you.

Thank you for your post. I'd like to comment!

I don't go in depth about power supply. I put a picture of it up there and let it go as is. I personally buy power supply almost constantly on just about every hero, just about every game. Thing is, not everyone likes it, and, please correct me if i'm wrong, power supply isn't a direct port of dota magic wand anymore (mana battery nerfed, supply more expensive). People generally have their own opinions about this item.

Regarding DPS items: It is absolutely true that she DPS's just fine with DPS items, but her spells will do more damage early and midgame. One reason I advocate frostwolf or sheep rush is that the buildup buffs your hp/mp pool while doing your autoattack at the same time. I do not argue that a high level hag with shieldbreaker/sheep/riftshards will tear things up. I simply argue that getting your caster stats up early is going to lead to more early and midgame kills than getting physical dps. (Note that Hag is a fine 4v5 hero because of her mass teamfight presence. She's fantastic for running a game and then handing it over to a harder carry).

I may be wrong about Harkons, but I haven't found many situations where I was wishing I could do additional magic damage, especially (as you mentioned) since enemy teams will be getting things like hood and bkb against you. Also remember that harkons doesn't work with shieldbreaker or frostwolf. Rushing harkons then getting rift shards might be epic rape, but you're looking at what - 7k of items. Rushing nomes wisdom and ganking the living crap out of the other team is epic rape as well, only it comes earlier.

I dunno. Playing this hero as a typical dps carry (travels, deso, crit, harkons) seems wrong since you sacrifice some of your early and midgame. Playing her as a pure caster (staff, sheep, frostfield, nomes) seems wrong since you fizzle out late game. Blending these things (frostwolf sheep crit/mkb) seems the best to me since you maintain relevance lategame without going oom for the first 30 minutes.


Still, I'm wondering if it's worth it to go staff because stone and staff give her a buttload of hp and mana + regen and she's set for it.

Try nomes->frostwolf->savage mace/sheep as luxury. You'll like it a lot.



Frostwolf only applies it's slow on single target spells. So it would make Haunt pretty killer, but would not affect her ult.

Sac stone is overkill on her, definitely better choices out there for Hag.

Both statements are correct. Remember that sac stone does nothing for your autoattack damage, and that Hag isn't going to be tanking anything. It's a really bad item on her.


(or you could just get puzzlebox)
Just gonna have to qft this one right here.

[akitoes]

Thank you for your post. I'd like to comment!

I don't go in depth about power supply. I put a picture of it up there and let it go as is. I personally buy power supply almost constantly on just about every hero, just about every game. Thing is, not everyone likes it, and, please correct me if i'm wrong, power supply isn't a direct port of dota magic wand anymore (mana battery nerfed, supply more expensive). People generally have their own opinions about this item.



Wow you are so timid with your advice lol.
Most 1700+ players get powersupply on 90% of heroes, just man up and take responsibility for what you advocate especially since it's so commonly used

[jay`t]

While I agree power supply is awesome, the intent of the guide is to teach people an effective itembuild and strategy for a hero that lots of people play poorly. :) People have their opinions on power supply, and that's fine. Keep in mind that going power supply is a near 600g extra you're spending outside your starting items, unless you start with mana battery, which really hurts your last hitting.

I can see it both ways.

And yes, I am timid, but that's mostly because everyone here is so harsh.

Anywho, to the meat of my post

I want you all to look at this:

Nullstone
- Recipe cost reduced to 825 from 1325
- Mana regen increased to 200% from 150%
- Now grants +10 damage


So now it costs 500 less, gives 200% mana regen, and ten damage. The item looks as follows:

COST 4675
+15 Strength
+15 Agility
+15 Intelligence
+6 Health Regeneration
+10 Damage
+200% Mana Regeneration
When not in cool down, negates a single Magical targeted spell.

Nullstone really fits the hit and run playstyle, but before it didn't solve all your mana regen problems. The free scarab attached to it + the little extra damage and lesser cost does make this appealing. Might be a half decent item to rush for if you're set on physical carry hag.... build order something like bottle, marchers, supply, manatube, steamboots, ulti orb, lifetube might be fine. Thoughts? This might be a good situational item against certain lineups.

[Mikelsa]

About the "NONO" items.. I disagree.

Heart isn't bought for regen, it is bought for CD decrease. And that is so freaking strong for her. Not only she'll blink faster but she'll also ult faster, so it is a good option.

And for Harkon's/thunder... got an amazing farm? Don't buy shieldbreaker! You have 3 nukes, you really should get Harkon's, even if th e other team has magic armor (5-5 is almost as good as 10-5).

Now, you bought Nome's Wisdom right? Now think with me. Harkon's manacost is 100 per hit. So, not only you'll have "true damage" for HITS AND SPELLS (cancel enemy's armor) but also you'll regenerate 25HP for each hit, and that's a huge "lifesteal". Well, with charged hammer (thunderclaw sucks by itself for her) you'll hit incredibly fast, so yea, you'll be a mad carry.

Note that this is only for some exceptional games that you farm and kill a lot since the early game.

Think about those 3 items together, and maybe you can state it as an alternative build.
i tried harkon's on wretched right now, btw does frostwolf stack with harkon's?
anyway i think that nomes charged hammer harkon's leave you too squishy.. i would replace charged hammer with a def item, i'm thinking about behemoth hearth, sac stone or also frostwolf if it stacks with harkon's, it gives a lot of hp

[Avi1231]

Chaos, appreciate the response. I just don't care for the fact that the vast majority of players don't understand that power supply is seriously core on just about everyone. My team and I lol hard everytime we pick Armadon or some other serious spammer and not a single enemy gets even a mana battery.

Anyway, with the upcoming buffs to Nullstone (I hate S2 unless there's some seriously good reason for this) I have to agree that it sounds like a super clutch item on her now. I don't quite get why you're saying it's great on someone set on physical dps Hag. I think it works both on great. Survivability for when the enemy focuses you as they're bound to try when you're doing that much with physical attacks and epic mana regen to run around.

I simply think this hero rapes so hard without any great mana pool/regen items that it makes sense to just go for some epic physical DPS as you should be farming heroes early and mid instead of ricing. It's basically how Sven and QoP are played in high level DotA. Get the basic items to sustain your ganking with minimal TPs to base to refill and then farm some major DPS.

In the end, ganker's item builds are really situational and you should really just use common sense. Lord knows that's hard to come by with most of the players in this game.

By the way, go Mass!

[akitoes]

Nullstone so good on Hag
underrated item

[kandalf]

Hm. If one rushes nullstone, whats the best dps items afterwards? Harkons+riftshards?

[Grotesco]

Nullstone is the way to go after patch 3.0

[Tantrum]

okay

i max blink and sonar scream first. But i put lvl 1 Haunt for the mini-slow and my ult at like lvl 4.

btw..Bloodstone is a nice item on hag. Since she can kill multiple targets at once..those charges can add up. PLus, the hp and mana make her more likely ot survive. Its a really nice item on her. Plus, POST HASTE i believe is the best boots imo because you get more speed and u can tp anywhere in crucial moments of the game.

[Silthyn]

I've recently begun to play Hag with a haunt build - instead of Scream, I max Haunt first. Is this terrible, and if so - why? Haunt at max level does more damage than Scream (although not AoE), and applies a slow. Also increases your ultis damage by a whole lot.

As far as I can see, we're looking at 300dmg AoE, versus 350dmg single target damage + 250dmg AoE with ulti + slow.

Obviously would the Scream build be better for farming, but is there any scenario where a Haunt build (which, to me, seems better for ganks) is viable? At least it's hell alot of fun to play ^^

[Padawanabee]

Scream has a ridiculously low cooldown, and hits an AoE which Haunt does not. Haunt is more effective in a gank on 1 person, and every 2 minutes your ult will decimate, but Sonar Scream is more reliable in general.

[Well_Shebber]

I tried Tablet > Nullstone yesterday to test it out a bit, and I really liked it. Both items combined fix your mana problem while giving you a bunch of nifty options (not to mention it completely ruins Electrician's day, who was on the other team :D).

I wouldn't do this every game though, as you could get better health on other items for the money. Just another build option to think about.

[commy]

http://hon.esportmedia.com/video/2010/03/26/twl-tournament-match-load-vs-phb.

Chu (as hag) getting decimated by a night hound in mid. The magmus/tempest ganks helped a lot, but its still interesting to see him played as a counter to hag. Do you think there was much more that chu could have done in this situation besides switching lanes/calling for support?

[jay`t]

Tablet of Command counters smoke cloud pretty well, and is something I'd get early if there is an enemy NH. But honestly, the ganks that magmus and tempest were unloading mid were just brutal.

[jay`t]

good god nullstone is $$$$$ cash dollahz against certain lineups

[Atnas]

I played a game in which I was forced to play Hag, thinking "Ugh, queen of pain eh? What a bore" but damn! I had really, really fun with her! It is probably because of the new, improved animations and abilities.

Got over here, decided that "I know nothing about how to play Hag" and found this sweet guide. Do you know what I like best about it?

It actually WANTS me to build a tablet of command. I am not kidding when I'm saying a tear fell from my eye as I realized that no, it wasn't just for the lulz either. I love Tablet of command, but I never felt that I could justify it on the heroes I usually play. I love it, it's easy to build, cheap and provides an ability that can be used both to great success and to pull off some really hilarious stunts.

The only problem I have is what I should build after it. Kuldra is good, but I just seem to get stuck halfway there (saving up for the 2700 mystic staff). I've also tried the frostwolf thing, but I just never really liked it much in the first place.

What can I get instead? I saw someone mention the nullstone, but does it really help all that much? Against certain matchups, perhaps.

Thanks for writing the guide!

[Kabale]

Nullstone's primary benefit is obviously the spell blocking, but it also solves your mana issues rather cheaply and with a very nice build-up (Sustainer + 10 stats).

[jay`t]

I played a game in which I was forced to play Hag, thinking "Ugh, queen of pain eh? What a bore" but damn! I had really, really fun with her! It is probably because of the new, improved animations and abilities.

Got over here, decided that "I know nothing about how to play Hag" and found this sweet guide. Do you know what I like best about it?

It actually WANTS me to build a tablet of command. I am not kidding when I'm saying a tear fell from my eye as I realized that no, it wasn't just for the lulz either. I love Tablet of command, but I never felt that I could justify it on the heroes I usually play. I love it, it's easy to build, cheap and provides an ability that can be used both to great success and to pull off some really hilarious stunts.

The only problem I have is what I should build after it. Kuldra is good, but I just seem to get stuck halfway there (saving up for the 2700 mystic staff). I've also tried the frostwolf thing, but I just never really liked it much in the first place.

What can I get instead? I saw someone mention the nullstone, but does it really help all that much? Against certain matchups, perhaps.

Thanks for writing the guide!

Nullstone saves your ass against certain lineups and it solves your mana regen problem. Going nullstone after Toc + Steams is perfectly fine, but it's not always needed.

I do love frostwolf, but it is a playstyle thing and might not always the best option. An early ToC leaves you squishy and with low mana regen. I think the 'right' next item would be puzzlebox, gives you loads of hp and mana and damage. Alternatively, you could do steamboots, then scarab+major totem + bracer + power supply then go to nomes, solving your issues cheaply.

Glad you liked the guide!!

[levo]

if there slither or armadon or any spell spammer heroes, i like to get mana battery+ power supply really helps a lot :)
btw great guide.

[Blessed_]

puzzlebox + int steamboots will solve all your mana problems, unless you are dumb and use scream on recharge.

Yes, it might leave you squishy, but you don't get ganked as hag, and if you get focused in teamfights, you can still switch to stenght.

[`Sleepyhead`]

They should really change the animation of the 3rd skill. Or at least make the animation show the actual AOE coverage of the skill.

[ma5]

me playing hag vs [loaded]merc as SS

this is probably one of the hardest match ups mid for hag, and i think tis a good exampel of out to survive and get decent farm in higher level play.

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=24864169

[ImmaYeti]

You really should reconsider adding harkons blade as a luxury after frostwolf. Its pretty much instant win

[Mateui]

If the game goes past mid-game stage and into late-game, I feel that Harkons is the way to keep yourself relevant, as let's face it, Sonar Scream and even Batblast don't have as much bite anymore at that point - but the magic armor reduction sure helps out a ton to melt away the enemies.

[husl]

what comes into my mind is the following idea:
become the initiater with stormspirit! just blink in, scream (and ulti) and lift yourself into safe air. maybe ther the enemy team is wasting their (non target) stuns (just like magmus) and in this really confusing situation ur team bursts in. in the meanwhile your skills are ready again and as you touch the ground you can clean the rest of them.

just an crazy idea

[Mateui]

Stormspirit is a nice poor man's BKB on Hag because you can blink in, unload your spells, stormspirit yourself, and then blink out as soon as its over. Very frustrating to play against a Hag that does this.

[bfbfbfbf]

u get 603 gold at start, which means not enough to buy ur starting items^^

[WTFCALLMISS]

my favorite WH item build is this. i've played quite a few games and find this to be my favorite build.

stat items->bottle->steamboots->nullstone->puzzlebox->sheepstick->frostfield

[bear_hugger]

:PowerSupply: is the best investment for any heroes. The charge will be add up rapidly during early-mid game team fight providing a short burst of hp to survive or mana to finish off a running hero. I cant even tell you how epic awesome this item is.

:Nullstone: is a must-have item for hag. It does block Pyro and Witch slayer's ultimate and many single-target hard disable. Yes, it blocks the toss from pebbles.

Personally, i think SotM is somewhat a waste of money. A decent team would farm up barrier idol or their carry would farm up shrunken. So all dmg from your ultimate = 0. Instead with Kundra, you have a hard disable which generally would benefit overall.

Frostwolf > Harkon.

[jay`t]

:PowerSupply: is the best investment for any heroes. The charge will be add up rapidly during early-mid game team fight providing a short burst of hp to survive or mana to finish off a running hero. I cant even tell you how epic awesome this item is.

:Nullstone: is a must-have item for hag. It does block Pyro and Witch slayer's ultimate and many single-target hard disable. Yes, it blocks the toss from pebbles.

Personally, i think SotM is somewhat a waste of money. A decent team would farm up barrier idol or their carry would farm up shrunken. So all dmg from your ultimate = 0. Instead with Kundra, you have a hard disable which generally would benefit overall.

Frostwolf > Harkon.

agreeee =o =o

[Thehummel]

You should propely change the little text about Tablet of Command, since it has been nerfed :(

[Kaerwek]

I love the guide and have started playing the Hag. I'd love to see some tips against popular classes, such as Scout (which I've had problems with).

[Nasty``]

I love the guide and have started playing the Hag. I'd love to see some tips against popular classes, such as Scout (which I've had problems with).


puzzle box vs. scout
you'll see him fail every time he tries to get near you.

basically it works like this:
when you see scout farming a lane or know he's jungling go for him, activate puzzlebox when you KNOW youre close to him. once you spotted him slow him down and nuke, auto attack, nuke and let puzzle minions attack, maybe use ult if you cant get him down else.

but the perfect case is when you can slow him before activating PB, then blink and activate PB -> benefit.

[Kaerwek]

Thanks, I'll give Puzzlebox a try. :)

[MrMcdiddles]

max haunt + blink = kick ass
max sonar + Blink = too bad -,....,-
really , try out haunt lv 4 + ult lv 2 , u can triple kill -,...,-

completely agree i see too many people get away cause after all it isnt like pyro's ult which does 500 damage at level 1

[Ripred]

wrong about maxxing haunt. if you know how to play hag and are playing against competent opponenst, sonar will do so much more.

using sonar, you can chase better because even if they are out of LoS you can still hit them and when they are trying to juke you.

sure, you can go haunt and blink and ult will own 0-3 people every 85 seconds

or you can get sonar which will hit an unlimited number of targets every 6 seconds and allow you to farm, harass, and do lethal damage to enemies. your ultimate at level 6 is just for the blast damage. or if you got one level of haunt for the slow too.

if you think you know better why dont you watch chu's hag? he doesn't even get a level of haunt early, and yet he still owns. that tells you something

[Donn]

for this patch... Starting items -> Manatube -> optional Glowstone -> Nullstone -> Frostwolf sound about right?

[jay`t]

Going to update this guide this weekend with some recent replays (I haven't been playing hag much, unfortunately, been playing lots of thunderbringer though!) and some thoughts about more advanced (1700+) play. (hint: bracers and puzzlebox)

I also need to add a section on map control, but I just might write a new guide for this.

[Farske]

Nomes had a nasty nurf :S
Ive been trying to get these replies but just cant find them.. maybe next time fraps the replays and commentary, then youtube?
just an idea?

Anyone recommend any good hags on youtube or alike?
F

[Pancakes`]

Since Nomes got the mana regen nerf, I think the best first item after bottle/boots/power supply is definitely Stormspirit. It gives you excellent regen, some stats, and the movement speed helps as well. You can blink/run across the map in no time.

The cyclone obviously gives the item general purpose utility in teamfights, but it can also help you set up a perfect ulti. AN ULTI OF NO ESCAPE.

<3 :Stormspirit:

[Fu__plate]

Only good thing about storm is that if you blink into a sticky situation, it'll let your blink get off cd, and maybe let your bottle regen if you need it.

Never actually tried it though, so just theory.

For mana regen though, Nullstone is king. Definately a glowstone before it for the health/mana though. If you're not getting it, a plain manatube is fine. Then onto the almighty Frostwolf.

Follow it up with Khuldra if you're not carrying and need some CC, or Shieldbreaker/Savage Mace/Hellflower if you're raping and just want the auto damage.

My thoughts for the current patch.

I guess tablet could go in there somewhere. Maybe frostplate as well, although I havn't built that on her in ages. Also, I find an early frostwolf > early staff pretty much all the time. Gotta try staff a bit to make sure though, it's been ages since I build it on her.

[Fornozo]

After playing hag a while I seem to do alright with getting :Puzzlebox: after my core boots power supply and bottle. And then going for the nullstone. This because if you can pull of some good ganks while still in the langing phase you maximize the :Puzzlebox: effect allowing you to have a 25-30min LV3 :Puzzlebox: sometimes. After that you go for:Nullstone: as you should be in control of the game and therefore not realy needing the :Nullstone:.
Also, I tend to go this skill build.

Blink/scream>Blink/scream>Scream>blink>scream>ult>scream>slow>max blink then slow with ult the the right levels.

That extra burst dmg you gain from scream gives you more kills than a 10hp/sec dot. And the LV2 blink gives you pretty much every rune once you have your boots.

[Stickyrolls]

Another fail guide, I really can't believe these things are premium. I'm so worried noobs will come here and play heroes the way wrote in these guides.

Never get nomes wisdom on hag, hag has a few select items that are outstanding on her and you should rarely deviate. "having a bad farm, are you needed right away?" ofc you are, your not a hard carry. You are needed the entire game. Your job is to carry your team through the mid game. You should never have a bad farm on hag either, she is an excellent lane pusher.

Talismans, power supply, int steam boots, bottle is what you need. Really you can stick with your marks of the novices so that you don't delay further items if your comfortable with her. Next there are a few routes you can go.

:Puzzlebox: Best item ever made for hag. Your already an assassin and puzzle box is a semi-carry in itself. Especially when you can get lvl 3 ~30 minutes.

:KuldrasSheepstick: I usually get this after puzzlebox. There are a few games where I get it first: a) fantastic retarded farm, b) enemy team has a carry getting out of hand or maybe team lacks disables.

:Nullstone: Hags main weakness is getting disabled so that she can't hit and run. If the enemy team has a lot of hard core single target disables this is a nice item. Also allows you to ditch the bottle and rice lanes forever. If the enemy team has vindicator this is a must. Blocks his ulti.

:FrostfieldPlate: If the game is going really good and I already have puzzlebox and an acolyte staff, don't really need the sheep, than I will get this. Rarely get it but it's not bad. Especially if the enemy team keeps getting away from ganks, team fights with low hp. Great for team chasing. Also adds to your aoe.

Never get hard-core dps items like frost wolf skull, savage mace, etc like the OP suggests. Don't get hellflower, sheep is better for you. Don't get helm of the black legion, super nooby item on her...I would proably vote kick a teammate if they got this on hag. If you need a SH than your doing it wrong. You also don't need storm spirit. Glad I could clear some things up for you guys.

[jay`t]

Another fail guide, I really can't believe these things are premium. I'm so worried noobs will come here and play heroes the way wrote in these guides.

Never get nomes wisdom on hag, hag has a few select items that are outstanding on her and you should rarely deviate. "having a bad farm, are you needed right away?" ofc you are, your not a hard carry. You are needed the entire game. Your job is to carry your team through the mid game. You should never have a bad farm on hag either, she is an excellent lane pusher.

Talismans, power supply, int steam boots, bottle is what you need. Really you can stick with your marks of the novices so that you don't delay further items if your comfortable with her. Next there are a few routes you can go.

:Puzzlebox: Best item ever made for hag. Your already an assassin and puzzle box is a semi-carry in itself. Especially when you can get lvl 3 ~30 minutes.

:KuldrasSheepstick: I usually get this after puzzlebox. There are a few games where I get it first: a) fantastic retarded farm, b) enemy team has a carry getting out of hand or maybe team lacks disables.

:Nullstone: Hags main weakness is getting disabled so that she can't hit and run. If the enemy team has a lot of hard core single target disables this is a nice item. Also allows you to ditch the bottle and rice lanes forever. If the enemy team has vindicator this is a must. Blocks his ulti.

:FrostfieldPlate: If the game is going really good and I already have puzzlebox and an acolyte staff, don't really need the sheep, than I will get this. Rarely get it but it's not bad. Especially if the enemy team keeps getting away from ganks, team fights with low hp. Great for team chasing. Also adds to your aoe.

Never get hard-core dps items like frost wolf skull, savage mace, etc like the OP suggests. Don't get hellflower, sheep is better for you. Don't get helm of the black legion, super nooby item on her...I would proably vote kick a teammate if they got this on hag. If you need a SH than your doing it wrong. You also don't need storm spirit. Glad I could clear some things up for you guys.

hag is a blinker that has good aoe for farming, a good long ranged attack, and a slow.

everything works on hag.

that being said, this guide items are currently outdated. nomes is now awful on her.

[Hippie]

Yeah, Nome's got smacked hard with the nerf bat, but it makes Nullstone even better on her for the 200% mana regen.

My personal build is usually triple totem+runes, early bottle, steamboots, power supply, nullstone. Do with it what you will, I'm not trying to give any advice here, just giving my own build order :p

[Stickyrolls]

Nomes was never good on her...the items I listed solve mana problems and have other utility. Only ever got nomes on people to poor to farm anything else.

Everything does not work on hag. That's some noob mentality.

[commy]

Chaos, I am once more in need of your advice!

In every competitive game I've seen, hags always ignore haunt until level 10.

So is this the right way to do it, or is it situational?

[ElementUser]

It's situational.

If you don't want to gank too much & just speedfarm, I usually get Haunt at level 9/10. I get Haunt at level 8 if I feel like I need to gank soon because level 1 Blink just sucks. If my team REALLY needs ganks, I'll take Haunt at level 4 (which I never do)

[Fornozo]

Chaos, I am once more in need of your advice!

In every competitive game I've seen, hags always ignore haunt until level 10.

So is this the right way to do it, or is it situational?
Competative games are good for learning but you should not always copy everything they do.
LV10 haunt it situational. Sometimes you need that lv1 slow to catch the runes sometimes you don't. Sometimes you need the LV 2-3 blink to stay mobile.
It's situational like everything else in this game. :)

[Capricious]

I used to get a level of haunt early, but I've shifted to

blink, scream, scream, blink, scream, ult, scream, haunt/blink

Since you should be mid and have a bottle, lets you harass/farm with scream and have better burst damage/mobility for your ganks at 6,7,8. The heroes in your lane should have at least 1 stun/slow for the gank.

[Crabski]

I'd like to throw in my two cents about the early level of Haunt. I see a lot of people going for one level of Haunt early (level 4ish) for the extra boost to their ult. I honestly find it useless, as usually all it does is get your targets denied by their lanemates. It costs too much mana and barely slows at level 1 anyway; the extra distance and CD reduction on blink is just better.

[McDuffs_Beer]

I'd say having the slow on ultimate on your first gank is handy, helps your team mates catch up to the fight. And what do you mean it costs too much mana, you said yourself its for upgrading the ult and not casting.

[Saharez]

From my experience going with Haunt at lvl 4 is generally making very little difference, when you gank you will gank a lane with 2 of your team mates assisting you, one of those should ideally have either a slow or a stun, if they do have that then your slow is making very little difference.
But then again if haunt works for you, then by all means go haunt, i personally prefere the extra mobility from a leveled blink.

the lowered cd and increased range makes runewhoring much easier aswell, in addition to that in pugs your opponent usually doesnt call a miss until a few seconds have passed, the extra speed might make the difference between a surprise gank and an expected gank.

[Damage]

Awesome guide.

Null stone is awesome on him... survivability, mana, and a bit of auto attack dps packed into an easy buildup item.

Frostwolf is awesome in concept but is a hard buildup... really only viable when you mana to rack in alot of kills mid game.

[Saharez]

Wrethched hag is one of my favorite heroes, I usually do rather well with hag mid, but whenever i am facing a Soulreaper its an uphill battle, i cant put pressure on him efficiently without losing HP much much faster than him, if i dont i will eventually fall down in HP and he will be able to play aggresively towards me.

I have been on both side on the fence, playing both the soulreaper and the wretched hag, my conclusion is that hag is severely screwed vs soulreaper and should get ganking as fast as possible, leaving soulreaper farming mid (which isnt good either)

If anyone got any advice, I am desperately needing it.

[bear_hugger]

" Bottle Ferrying "

[Saharez]

That is making you last long enouh for the ganking phase, odds are you wont hit 6 before the much esteemed Soulreaper though :<

oh well, guess every hero needs a decent counter :(

[Electroid]

I like the guide, but SotM's 55 second cooldown reduction is not what I would call "a bit" (it's actually quite a lot).

Also, what if QoP has to dual-lane?

It is what i would call a once per team fight, unless your going team fight after team fight, that CD isn't all that worth it. IMO damage/stun/aoe/slow is what i would count on in an ulti.

[jay`t]

Wrethched hag is one of my favorite heroes, I usually do rather well with hag mid, but whenever i am facing a Soulreaper its an uphill battle, i cant put pressure on him efficiently without losing HP much much faster than him, if i dont i will eventually fall down in HP and he will be able to play aggresively towards me.

I have been on both side on the fence, playing both the soulreaper and the wretched hag, my conclusion is that hag is severely screwed vs soulreaper and should get ganking as fast as possible, leaving soulreaper farming mid (which isnt good either)

If anyone got any advice, I am desperately needing it.

soul reaper mid is really rough for everyone, but bottle ferrying should let keep you from doing too poorly, as you're not going to be chasing him around much, and staying in range of his damage/heal.

his aura doesnt prevent your bottle regen either so that's a plus :)

play against him like you would any other dangerous mid - try your best to last hit/deny early, don't fall dangerously low, get an extra exile or bracer if needed

[commy]

You should add this game to the guide...

http://hon.esportmedia.com/video/2010/06/21/dreamhack-day-2-kde-vs-txl-game-2/progressive

Utterly amazing wretched hag play. Started in the safe lane against a pebbles/pyro combo and still managed to get a fair few last hits/denies. Dominated the game from about 15 minutes onwards.

The whole game is amazing from kde actually, but the hag play is worthy of special mention. Also interesting to note is that the hag finished null stone + frostfield while remaining on marchers.

[SpyflueN]

If a game is getting really long and u got good farm (hag most likely always has good farm due to blink+scream), hag should start focusing on her autoattack dmg because she is SO mobile with her blink allowing her to chase everyone.

I think the best itembuild a hag can get late game is (never tried it my self, because I normally always win games midgame with hag): Steamboots on STR - Nullstone - Frostfield Plate - Charged Hammer - Riftshards - Harkons Blade

Good mix of survability, slow, attack speed and damage. Will make you crit for 800.

[Donn]

If a game is getting really long and u got good farm (hag most likely always has good farm due to blink+scream), hag should start focusing on her autoattack dmg because she is SO mobile with her blink allowing her to chase everyone.

I think the best itembuild a hag can get late game is (never tried it my self, because I normally always win games midgame with hag): Steamboots on STR - Nullstone - Frostfield Plate - Charged Hammer - Riftshards - Harkons Blade

Good mix of survability, slow, attack speed and damage. Will make you crit for 800.

o.o you know that's 25k worth of items, right? most late game CARRIES don't rice this much gold.

[SpyflueN]

Well if you have an average of 350 gold per min, then you will have earned 21000 gold at the 60-minute mark. But yeah, most games wont be that long.

[PermaNoob]

In regards to dual laning hag, it seems to me that :wret::defi: works pretty well.

[Saharez]

In my experience Wretched Hag dual lanes very well with nearly every hero which can pack a punch.

The thing with Wretched Hag is that she does not have enough punch to pose a threat by herself when equally leveled against an opponent which know she is there, in addition to that her primary nuke requires Hag to get a bit close therefore putting her in danger.

Due to this the enemy needs to be pressured from another source than hag, if hag is gonna be a threat, Hags strength has and will always be her ability to close in and get the kill done, that and her nutty farming capacity of cause ^^

So yes, defiler/pyromancer/magmus/witch slayer/ gauntlet/etc.

Both defiler and hag are very strong mid heroes though, so it is a rare occurence for them to lane together.


on another note, I have been experiementing a bit with a shoeless hag, it is much easier to get an early sustainer, if you leave boots behind, sustainer gives hag a surprisingly good staying power especially added together with bottle, and if you priotize Flash of Darkness over Haunt you will be surprisingly mobile just by blinking around, with sustainer the increased strain on your mana pool does'nt seem that harsh.

This gives the possibility to go for an even quicker Null stone aswell, making you especially hard to drive off during a gank.

The downside is of cause that your chasing power is taking a minor hit, yuo can farm more intensively though, since its easier to keep your mana pool topped up.

When i am doing this i often end up never getting those boots, abandoning them in favor of bigger items.

Chaosmongler/jay`t what are your thoughts on this?

After an ingame chat with Chaosmongler I was convinced that Steamboots is in 9/10 situations the choice to make.

The reasoning is that the extra 190 hp from steamboots when towerdiving is huge and against certain matchups the increased speed is invaluable for contesting runes, the 1/10 situation where i would skip boots would be when mid was allready won and there was no serious threat when ganking sidelanes.

[jay`t]

Big update done today :D

guide should be current for current hon

[Crabski]

Excellent guide as always. Still just as useful as it was 6 months ago (or whenever it first came out, it was a long time ago :D).

I should really start trying new stuff for Hag anyway. I've recently (past few months, starting from when it was 825g for the recipe) been getting Nullstone every game as my first real item; it's just such a perfect fit for her!

[jay`t]

hey man eventually i had to stop recommending nomes wisdom rush right :D

I love nullstone on her too, sooo good

[jay`t]

played hag as a hard carry

didnt work so well until i had 3 big items zzzz

[Fu__plate]

I tend to play her as a hard ish carry most games, just pubs

Nullstone for regen, frostwolf for my orb and then riftshards/savage mace (been getting rift as late because lvl 1 is so easy to grab).

Usually works a charm in those lower level games :P

[Llama]

^I thought harkons/hellflower was the way to go :\

[Grotesco]

Kmon Jay?t, why not use this picture instead?
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krmjnn1Zl31qa909xo1_500.jpg

[Fu__plate]

^I thought harkons/hellflower was the way to go :\
Never tried this build, if you can pull it off though, good for you.

I can see it being annoying hitting your target with hellflower, then putting on harkons and hitting the same target+whoever else you want to hit with ulti, then throwing out your spells.

Doesn't seem to give much survivability (whereas null+Frostwolf is huge stats+spellblock) and the combo seems preeeeetty awkward, if effective when you do it correctly.

Depends on whether you want a pub stompy fun dps build or a standard semi carry hag build (gank+farm transitioning into chaser/auto attack lategame, pretty effective with frostwolf and perma blinking).

Another nice build to try could be sheep+shieldbreaker, I'd prefer to play that over harkons+hellflower...

[HonIE]

How about the new boots on Hag, the Striders? I know she is a blinker, but I usually tend not to skill her blink until later levels, which would make Striders a very decent item for extra mobility.

[Lethe]

Meh feel free to use this one: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=4433165

Worth watching not just for my hag play but also that of my teammates. Teamwork wise one of the best pubs I have ever played with.

[ElementUser]

How about the new boots on Hag, the Striders? I know she is a blinker, but I usually tend not to skill her blink until later levels, which would make Striders a very decent item for extra mobility.

Only in very exclusive games where you max Scream/Haunt with 1 point of Blink.

And even then......Steamboots abuse with Bottle is just TOO GOOD

(Plus hag needs all the stat bonuses from Steamboots)

[jay`t]

I'd never get striders on hag. Blink interrupts your run speed bonus.

If you really need bursty run speed, get ghosties, but still steams are usually the way to go. (and by usually i pmuch mean always)

ABout your replay, Lethe, I was unable to actually view it in game. STrange >.<

[Lethe]

Yea I just tried downloading it again. The problems recently with replays seemed to affect that particular replay, unfortunately :(

[Rabboni]

I recently say the Empr v. DrDz game where violation_ (aka Phe`V) got level 4 Sonar Scream and Flash before even putting a point in Haunt.

Why would this be, is this situational? He did have a Slither and Chipper on his team and slows are diminishing. Did he find his Haunt obsolete with two heroes also having slows? Or is there some 1800+ reasoning behind this.

[Loki]

There is. Haunt is applied to everyone hit by your ultimate, which makes it possible for the opposing team to deny each other. By not taking it, you prevent this. You do skip on some damage though, so later on he takes it anyway. Leveling flash and scream early has no disadvantage on it's own, so it's preferred.

Personally, I think one rank of haunt (at least) is invaluable, but I obviously don't play at 1800+ and people don't usually deny each other in 1650+ games.

[Crabski]

I recently say the Empr v. DrDz game where violation_ (aka Phe`V) got level 4 Sonar Scream and Flash before even putting a point in Haunt.

Why would this be, is this situational? He did have a Slither and Chipper on his team and slows are diminishing. Did he find his Haunt obsolete with two heroes also having slows? Or is there some 1800+ reasoning behind this.

I am 1800+ (if that means anything) with Hag as most played, and I can tell you that I never skill Haunt before 10. It adds piss-weak damage and a crappy slow to your ult, and in return lets the other team deny each other (AND it costs you a skill point which could be reducing the cd on blink).

There's literally no reason to get it before 10 (EXCEPT for the occasional rune gank @ lvl 1, but that's pretty rare and most of the time you'll want blink or scream 1 instead).

EDIT: I should say a few things here. First, Haunt is not a bad skill at all. Mid/late it is amazing for chasing, kiting, etc; it just sucks early when you could be getting your other two amazing skills. Second, Haunt might be worth getting if they changed how it scales (20/30/40/50 per tick instead of 10/20/40/50), but she doesn't need more buffs anyway. Just pointing out the weird scaling as the reason it sucks early.

[Homorosvo]

Really liked the tl;dr at the end :)

[Binat]

There is something missing. There is a nice trick with her ultimate. The ultimate isnt a complete animation. So you can circle around while spraying. Pretty nice if you have 3 opponents right in front of you and (I dont know why) there is someone standing next to you, just circle to him. It's not easy to controll, but it works very well.
With this trick it's not hard to kill invis units trying to escape. :P

[ObeseSheep]

There is something missing. There is a nice trick with her ultimate. The ultimate isnt a complete animation. So you can circle around while spraying. Pretty nice if you have 3 opponents right in front of you and (I dont know why) there is someone standing next to you, just circle to him. It's not easy to controll, but it works very well.
With this trick it's not hard to kill invis units trying to escape. :P

That doesn't work. I tried. It's just the animation.

[jay`t]

obese is correct. it looks awesome but doesnt do dmg

[BrutalOne]

What about Codex on her? Could that work?

[jay`t]

It could work, much like codex on anyone, but you're not helping her auto with codex very much, and you're not helping her survivability.

Also, it's far less useful once people get barrier, shrunky, etc

I guess I'm just saying that codex has no real special niche with hag that makes it better for her than for anyone else.

[BrutalOne]

It could work, much like codex on anyone, but you're not helping her auto with codex very much, and you're not helping her survivability.

Also, it's far less useful once people get barrier, shrunky, etc

I guess I'm just saying that codex has no real special niche with hag that makes it better for her than for anyone else.

Yeah, you got some good point. I always forgot that she is auto-attack-dmg-dealer, beside her burs spells, later in the game, thats why she scales so good.

[ElementUser]

Mongly, do you think Hag still fits HoN's current metagame?

:O

[Dorjan]

With the reasoning in this thread, Hag should be nearly always taken against a tri lane...

Underlevelled support heroes vs a hag... free farm?

I've always struggled with hag and I think this guide has made me realise where I was going wrong. Thank you !!!

[jay`t]

Mongly, do you think Hag still fits HoN's current metagame?

:O

I think that when hag is picked in trilane teams, it's more of a player preference thing than a hero fitting the meta perfectly well.

[ObeseSheep]

I think that when hag is picked in trilane teams, it's more of a player preference thing than a hero fitting the meta perfectly well.

I personaly think that :wret: fits into a group of heroes that have similar skills and role. :doct: :wret: :bubb:. Best to worst. :wret: is better then :doct: in certain cases like the need for team fight power.

[TheMaverick]

<- Support for premium guides (this is by far the best hag guide I've seen yet and there's no hag guide in the premium section)

Only thing I disagree with (and it's a pretty big one) is you recommending hellflower.

Hellflower is terrible, even as luxury. Items that are better:
- Totem of Kuldra
- Puzzlebox level 3
- Frostwulf Skull
- Fortfield Plate
Even harkon's blade is a better item by the time you could consider hellflower.

Otherwise excelent guide and good analysis on the different item builds.

Hellflower is situational, remember you are a semi carry...he mentions frostwulf as core, hellflower would be good if you need to dps their carrys late game...you need to help your auto attack.

Problem with puzzle it really is more for pushing power and fortfield plate only gives you armor, generally hag is trying to avoid damage picking heros off rather than relying on armor to save her in the middle of a battle.

[jay`t]

Hellflower also lets you 'jump' a carry that has a shrunky since it now perplexes.

not bad!

[bfbfbfbf]

wretched hag cannot be a semi-carry without bkb+nullstone. when u blink into a fight, or atleast stay near a fight every1 will aim at you becos ur probably will be the squishest one. for the semi-carry role u need to survive trough a team fight which is only done by a nullstone and/or bkb depending on the enemy team.

there is no way you can win mid vs thunderbringer , he pushes you out of xp range with his 1st skill. your only chance is to survive his nukes lategame with your nullstone and gank him. hopefully with some team support, otherwise he is too good to die before you

[Crabski]

My Hag has sucked recently... must get back on the ball!

It's almost a reflex to grab a Nullstone these days, but I really shouldn't. Will be trying Hellflower soon, as it's a lot better than it used to be. The silence seems to last forever and the damage you can put out with it is amazing! Adjusting my playstyle to compensate for the loss of HP is going to be painful though.

[Katboi]

Hag will fit HoN's metagame as long as Chu is there to inspire people to completely annihilate games with her.

Please mention that 90% of high tier HoN players skip haunt until 10; shorter CD and longer range on blink is a big deal; and the opportunity for like ( Bottle Sip ) and an additional Blink + Scream is FAR superior to the crappy slow haunt will apply. NO contest.

[jay`t]

Guide is a bit outdated, I'll work on this after I finish my bombardier guide

[Cub]

I dislike the formatting; the constant popping up of images makes me feel like I'm reading a comic, though I suppose that's not ALL bad considering the style of the game but I'd like something a little but more organized I guess.

In my opinion it is almost never acceptable to not max blink first, another rank in blink is another 2 seconds off of each Blink + Scream and in early game (ESPECIALLY with Chalice being in the game now) that is way more relevant than the pitiful slow Haunt will provide with its minimally invested points will provide.

Bracers are a waste, more than one Talisman is a waste. But as you said this guide is outdated, I look forward to a possible revision and am considering writing one myself.

[jay`t]

I dislike the formatting; the constant popping up of images makes me feel like I'm reading a comic, though I suppose that's not ALL bad considering the style of the game but I'd like something a little but more organized I guess.

In my opinion it is almost never acceptable to not max blink first, another rank in blink is another 2 seconds off of each Blink + Scream and in early game (ESPECIALLY with Chalice being in the game now) that is way more relevant than the pitiful slow Haunt will provide with its minimally invested points will provide.

Bracers are a waste, more than one Talisman is a waste. But as you said this guide is outdated, I look forward to a possible revision and am considering writing one myself.


Agreed with your opinion on skill build, and probably items too.

[d4bidden]

how can i work against vindicator?


his aura made me cry so bad :(

[bfbfbfbf]

how can i work against vindicator?


his aura made me cry so bad :(

u cant he's ur counter, late game u can pwn him with ur puzzlebox

[Cub]

u cant he's ur counter, late game u can pwn him with ur puzzlebox

Oh my.

[ElementUser]

Vindicator is so squishy, just gank him a lot early on. He's free food at that time.

[jay`t]

how can i work against vindicator?


his aura made me cry so bad :(

blink is 60 mana:)

[Cub]

blink is 60 mana:)

Wait...

What does blink being cheap have to do with Vindi's Aura silencing you every time you try to do anything?

[ElementUser]

jay`t thought he meant the Sage's Lore.

Anyway, since the aura is only 800 range and Blink is 1150 range at max level, you shouldn't have a problem blinking into the fight without getting silenced.

[caius_heh]

what about the recent spellshards ? Do they fit hag ? How can I integrate it in the build proposed by the guide ?

[bfbfbfbf]

what about the recent spellshards ? Do they fit hag ? How can I integrate it in the build proposed by the guide ?

no. hag is a semi-carry, spellshards are for heroes who rely on their nukes to gank enemy heroes. wretched hag can boost her autoattack decently to scale into the lategame with her great attack speed. dont ever get spellshards, the gold in it would be a complete waste.

[Cub]

no. hag is a semi-carry, spellshards are for heroes who rely on their nukes to gank enemy heroes. wretched hag can boost her autoattack decently to scale into the lategame with her great attack speed. dont ever get spellshards, the gold in it would be a complete waste.

I haven't seen it in high tier yet, so I'm inclined to agree.

THOUGH

Spell Shards, Behe Heart, and Staff of the Master are hilariously overpowering in mid low tier games (and since 1500s and 1600 players are the only people who would ever look at these guides...) where bad positioning is ever present (during pushes especially) . Staffed , Magic armor ignoring Bat Blast on a minute CD is lul.

Puzzlebox beats everything else though.

[Tyion]

I dont know , i love to get Riftshards after Skull&Nullstone , it makes u to a really , really good carry.

[bear_hugger]

Not sure if anyone realize this but Myrmindon is extremely punishing for hags. At lvl 2, his combo will knock out half of your hp easily. You might have to skill blink at lvl 3 first instead of sonar scream. With 10 sec matching with his magical carp, you are safe for the rest of the game. Before lvl 3, dont even question if you need to blink when he tossed his carp. Just blink.

Also, Post Haste on hag with some odds wards spot can make the other team borderline OCD on ganking you.

Post haste improve your runewhoring, +sonar scream+ward can make you push like a madman. Since lanes are pushed, you gained more map control and your carry are somewhat safe from ganking.

[Cub]

Post Haste needs to be gotten before like 9 minutes to be effective on Hag; delaying her early expensive core items is unwise.

[KoKsInator]

Maybe I'm old with that, but it's funny that author has 44% wins with Hag

[mega_manuel]

Can someone more clever and more into hag than me please explain why nullstone > sacstone. I have never figured that out even when enemy team has lots of single target spells.

[Cub]

Can someone more clever and more into hag than me please explain why nullstone > sacstone. I have never figured that out even when enemy team has lots of single target spells.

Sacstone gives no stats; it only gives HP/MP and Regen, hags auto attacks need to be at a respectable level for late midgame/lategame, Nullstone + Sheepstick sets this up at a horribly efficient balance.

Sacstone is an item you're not going to see very often anymore; Nullstone is cheaper and in most cases, better.