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View Full Version : Slither DPS calculation - is this correct?!



T0x
01-26-2010, 04:22 AM
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/8/icon_128.jpg (http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=8)

Ok now I am no maths guru and there is a very good chance that my findings may be inaccurate to a degree. If they are please refrain from being a d1ck about it, instead show me where I went wrong for future reference.
(Please also note that I am suffering from a mild neurological defect that can cause serious and complete lapses in concentration)


So today I got to thinking... "Which agi hero is high enough in dps to carry but takes more than just a right click to achieve this?"

I decided to number crunch for Slither... This is what I came up with.

For this example we will assume that the only items on Slither are Hakron's Blade and SotM and that your enemy has no +magic armor items.

Also, to achieve this kind of dps we must use a tactic that involves:
- toggle Hakron's Blade on for one attack
- While your projectile is in flight, quickly toggle Hakron's Blade off before your next attack begins so that 'Toxicity' is applied instead
- As soon as you see the Hakron's Blade debuff disappear, start again at step one and repeat.

Slither's 'Toxicity':
20 magic dps

Slither's 'Poison Eruption':(+ SotM boost)
108 magic dps

Slither's 'Poison Spray':(single tick)
50 magic damage

Slither's 'Poison wards' attack damage: (3 placed attacking in perfect unison)
102 - 126 | Let's say the average damage per 3-way synchronized attack is 114

Slither's Attack damage:(level 25, +10 damage from SotM, + 25 damage from Hakron's Blade)
163-165 | Let's say the average damage per attack is 164.

Slither's attacks per second:(after item bonuses)
1.25

Magic damage reduction of 5.5 magic armor: (base magic armor for all heroes)
24.80%

Magic damage reduction of 5 magic armor: (Hakron's Blade debuff is -5 magic armor)
(approx)22.54%

So lets start the equation.

20 + 108 + 50 = 178 Magic damage per second(on the tick second of 'Poison Spray') before calculating magic damage reduction.

(164 / 1.25) + 114 = (approx)235.2 physical damage per second.

178 + 235.2 = 423.2 dps before any reductions

24.80 - 22.54 = 2.26% magic damage reduction

2.26 % of 178 = 4.02 magic damage per second lost to magic damage reduction

178 - 4.02 = 173.08 Magic dps after reductions on the second that 'Poison Spray' ticks

173.08 + 235.2 =

~408.28 achievable DPS




Because heroes' are diverse when it comes to their base armor we cannot accurately predict physical damage reductions.
But if I have done everything else right this should give you an accurate look at Slither's DPS capabilities as a hero not considered a 'hard carry'.

Now I am well aware that Hakron's + Sotm is possible the most impractical idea ever conceived... But hey look at the dps for yourself(assuming I didn't stuff up too badly).

Found an error? LET ME KNOW!!! (please note that some numbers were rounded off to save having unrealistic numbers that HoN does not actually calculate)

firefart
01-26-2010, 04:24 AM
Indeed, I think he is a bit OP now.
But is it really that much ?!

Cataclysma
01-26-2010, 04:24 AM
Im pretty sure the Harkons Blade debuff doesn't allow Toxicity to stack.

T0x
01-26-2010, 04:26 AM
Im pretty sure the Harkons Blade debuff doesn't allow Toxicity to stack.
Toxicity is magic damage
Hakrons lowers magic armor, thus magic damage reduction;
Hakron's Blade SHOULD increase the damage of 'Toxicity'

There is also absolutely no mention of it not applying with 'Toxicity'.

T0x
01-26-2010, 04:27 AM
Indeed, I think he is a bit OP now.
But is it really that much ?!

That's what I'd like to confirm, hoping someone here has less of a life than me to double check. xD

Hat_Truck
01-26-2010, 04:30 AM
Hammerstorm or Puppetmaster at level 25 could achieve a much higher DPS with the same gold in items.

Madman as well.

Paradigm_
01-26-2010, 04:32 AM
Hammerstorm or Puppetmaster at level 25 could achieve a much higher DPS with the same gold in items.

Madman as well.


Slither doesn't need to be close to those levels to deal that much dps.

Hat_Truck
01-26-2010, 04:33 AM
I know, I'm just saying that he calculated this all at level 25, at which several other heroes could out DPS slither easily.

If you recalculated it at 16, it would be more relevant.

T0x
01-26-2010, 04:34 AM
Slither doesn't need to be close to those levels to deal that much dps.
Actually this equation is based on a lvl 25 slither.
But I don't wanna know who else can carry ffs i wanna know if i worked the potential dps of this scenario out properly...

Is no one paying attention?

Hat_Truck
01-26-2010, 04:36 AM
Barron your equation is missing the point that by level 25, most people are going to have Shrunken Head or at least some kind of extra magic resistance.

It's really cool that Slither can potentially do that much DPS but it's so unrealistic that we might as well be talking about carry Devourer.

Gabula
01-26-2010, 04:36 AM
Hammerstorm or Puppetmaster at level 25 could achieve a much higher DPS with the same gold in items.

Madman as well.

Implying they have anything in common with Slither?

Hat_Truck
01-26-2010, 04:36 AM
See above.

T0x
01-26-2010, 04:41 AM
Barron your equation is missing the point that by level 25, most people are going to have Shrunken Head or at least some kind of extra magic resistance.

It's really cool that Slither can potentially do that much DPS but it's so unrealistic that we might as well be talking about carry Devourer.

Yes I realize this, hence the obvious hypothetical scenario on which this is all based. I just want absolute confirmation that this is infact the potential dps of this scenario allbeit a scenario that will never be seen in a proper match.

If you got the small text at the top of the post you'll get where I'm coming from when I say this is a personal challenge for my head and I would really like to know how I did. =\

Uniq1
01-26-2010, 04:42 AM
As far as I know the harkoon debuff is applied before the attack giving one in ever x attack magidmg and therefore doing more dmg. I can't see that you have taken that in consideration but if you have, nvm

T0x
01-26-2010, 04:45 AM
As far as I know the harkoon debuff is applied before the attack giving one in ever x attack magidmg and therefore doing more dmg. I can't see that you have taken that in consideration but if you have, nvm
Well I saw it working like that in-game but I could not personally work out at what exact point that magic damage would be applied... too much for my head.

Jager
01-26-2010, 04:47 AM
Moving this to Mechanics.

Uniq1
01-26-2010, 04:51 AM
Also how many secs does the toxicity debuff last? Considering that the harkoons attack would do much more it would be optimal to just turn it off when the toxcity runs off

T0x
01-26-2010, 05:03 AM
Debuff lasts 5, toxicity 7

T0x
01-26-2010, 05:05 AM
Moving this to Mechanics.
you should probably delete the dupe i made there to get more help.

Archatype
01-26-2010, 05:19 AM
harkons isn't an attack modifier? I thought it was...wouldn't stack with toxicity if it were.

T0x
01-26-2010, 05:36 AM
harkons isn't an attack modifier? I thought it was...wouldn't stack with toxicity if it were.
they cannot be applied on the same attack but they do indeed work together when applied via separate attacks.

Is that so hard for people to understand?
When modifiers don't stack it simply means they cannot be combined into one super modifier on one hero.
Ever notice how a good team will get several modifiers between them so that they stack as individual attacks?

Trysaeder
01-26-2010, 06:03 AM
I'm overseas so I can't do the stuff for you. Looking over quickly your maths seems ok, but I think this thread belongs in strategy rather than mechanics.

Acinod
01-26-2010, 06:04 AM
omg hi kenny!

Now on topic: Void Talisman and TP?

ElementUser
01-26-2010, 07:34 AM
Just for accuracy purposes, you should use the damage reduction formula rather than subtracting a speculated amount from the magic armor.

5.5 Magic Armor = 24.8%
0.5 Magic Armor = 2.91%

If you're assuming Slither has Harkon's Blade active, then his physical damage gets converted to magical damage, so you have to factor in the magic damage reduction for that too.

Stokkolm
01-26-2010, 08:00 AM
Actually harkon's blade stacks with every modifier in the game besides Arachna's web shot and vindicator's master incantation. So you don't need to turn it off to apply toxicity.

Check this thread, maybe even bookmark it:
Which Abilities and Items Stack (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=49099)

I also tested on practice and i can confirm it works how i said.