Forest Phantom

[T0x]

Forest Phantom
The forests of Newerth will never be safe again

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae43/toxicity802/ForestPhantom-Portrait.jpghttp://mattstone.blogs.com/photos/christian_art_goth/goth_crown_of_thorns.jpg
Affiliation - Neutral wanderer protecting the forests of Newerth, thus helping The Legion indirectly.
Role(s) - Semi-carry, roamer, ganker, pseudo-support


A reclusive entity, the Forest Phantom has spent countless eons stalking the forests of Newerth. Now as the war spills into his eternal dwelling we find that the Forest Phantom is not happy with all the destruction... beings of Newerth, beware the forests you once thrived in...



Stats and specifications:



Agi - 24 | +2.2
Int - 17 | +1.9
Str - 21 | +1.8
Dmg: 49 - 55


Base HP: 433 | 0.68/s HP regen
<( 21{base} + 1.8{lvl1} ) x ( 19 HP per str )= 433.2> | <( 21{base} + 1.8{lvl1} ) x ( 0.03/s HP regen per str )= 0.68>
Base MP: 245 | 0.75/s MP regen
<( 17{base} + 1.9{lvl1} ) x ( 13 MP per int)= 245.7> | <( 17{base} + 1.9{lvl1} ) x ( 0.04/s MP regen per int)= 0.756>
Base attack speed: 0.71 attacks per second
Base Armor: 2.1
Base Magic Armor: 5.5
Attack type: This hero will have a semi-unique style of auto attacking; This hero uses a thorned-vine whips (see picture next to hero for reference) so in a sense is a melee class hero... However, being a whip it should have some sort of extended range. Let's say... 250
So I guess technically this hero is ranged.
Movement speed: 295
Turn speed: 0.2
Cast speed: 0.5



Spells:


Forest Concoction


SCRAPPED PENDING REMAKE

Mastery of Thorns


The Forest Phantom is an adept warrior, most at home when fending off enemies in his dense dwellings. Over the years he has learned to use many weapons, but none more lethally than thorned weapons and armor.



Usage and mechanics:
- Nothing to really put here it's a very straight forward skill.


Technical info:
Target: Passive(self buff)
Damage type:Physical & True damage return
Mana cost: NA
Cooldown:('Vine-wrap') 5.25/4.50/3.75/2.75 after proc
Cast time: NA
Cast range: NA


Effects:


Passive
- 4/8/12/16% chance to wrap your whip around the enemy, dealing an extra 25/45/60/70 physical damage and holding both the target and Forest Phantom in place for 1.25 seconds. May only proc when attacking enemy heroes.
- Increases attack range by 0/50/100/150
- Melee attackers take true damage equal to 5/15/25/35% of their base strength every time they strike Forest Phantom.
- Incoming physical projectile(range) damage is reduced by 3/6/9/12%
Tree stalker


Centuries of fighting in the forests have given Forest Phantom a unique style of jumping from ground to tree. Over time Forest Phantom has learnt the pivital point of impact needed to topple a tree, often using this knowlede to crush his foes.



Usage and mechanics:
- The player targets a tree within range and The Forest Phantom leaps to it, crushing it when he lands; dealing damage to and slowing all enemies within the AOE.
- Forest Phantom becomes disjointed from the game during flight. (Invulnerable and complete magic immunity)


Technical info:
Target: Tree
Damage type: Physical
Mana cost: 110/125/140/155
Cooldown: 20/16/13/11
Cast time: 1 second flight time + base cast speed
Cast range: 450/500/550/600


Effects:


Impact
- Deals 75/115/145/185 damage in a 400 AOE around the center of the targetted tree
- Applies "Tree-dazed" to enemies in a 400 AOE around the center of the targetted tree for 3 seconds

"Tree-dazed"
- Slows movement and turn speed by 25/25/30/30% initially, returning over debuff duration.
*Ult* Phantom of Newerth


Living in the forests for so long it would be stupid to think that Forest Phantom has not developed an almost supernatural camoflague technique. This technique not only effectively cloaks him but increases his already dramatic element of surprise.



Usage and mechanics:
- When activated causes Forest Phantom to fade in and out of invisibilty while in range of trees, ideally being in the fade time itself for the most part.
- This ultimate can be used while under the effects of hold/grab style moves such as Static Grip, Devour, Shackle, etc.


Technical info:
Target: Self buff
Damage type: Physical
Mana cost: 200
Cooldown: 90/70/50
Cast time: Base cast speed.
Cast range: NA


Effects:


On activation
- Applies "Phantom of Newerth" to Forest Phantom for 10/15/20 seconds
- Dispells all debuffs
- Disjoints from any hold/grab style move.

"Phantom of Newerth"
- Causes the Forest Phantom to fade in and out of invis when he is within 250 range of a tree. 1s fade time + 0.75s invis time
- Attacking while in this etheral form does not break the stealth effect(using abilities does though) and each attack will ignore the targets armor by the amount equal to 50% of your own armor.
- 5/10/15% chance for 1.4x/1.6x/1.8x critical strike
- Applies "Phantom Presence" aura; effecting enemies within 450 range

"Phantom Presence"
- Causes enemies within range to have a 4/8/12% chance to miss their attacks even on flat surfaces.

FAQ:

This ulti's invis is overpowered, why would you do such a thing?

There is several reasons why this spell is more balanced than it seems, especially when compared to the likes of other heroes' invis abilities.
But let's start with internal reasons:



He must be within 250 range of a tree for the invis to activate at all
He is constantly fading in and out of invis and actually spends only 0.75 seconds invis at a time versus a 1 second fade time
Because of the constant fading in and out, range restriction to trees and no increased MS; he is VERY easy to follow even without the easy to buy invis detection items.
50 second cooldown - 20 second duration = 30 second overall cooldown at skill-level 3... much longer than any other invis ability.



Now for some hero comparisons:



Scout - semi-permanent windwalk when you buy some piss cheap mana regen items, +MS and when breaking this invis with an attack scout enters a state of insane IAS for x hits.
NightHound - permanent invisibility at lvl 6 and only half a second longer of a fade time at lvl 16.
Valkyrie - Global invis that is also unbreakable by attacks/abilities only lasting 3/6/9 seconds less than FP's.
KotF - Can be cast on allied units and lasts 15/30/45/60 seconds. Also note that KotF may cast abilities without breaking his stealth.


So now I ask you... Is FP's invis REALLY that bad?Is he meant to be so damn situational/dependent on trees?

YES! I cannot stress this enough. Theme and role wise, Forest Phantom is a roaming-ganker whos purpose in Newerth is to stalk and terrorize it's dense forests. If you cannot grasp this concept then obviously it is a t-down from you.PLEASE, stop commenting on this as if it were a mistake or a totally unfathomable concept.

--Change Log--
Dates are in Australian format (dd/mm/yyyy)


25/01/2010

Hero suggestion created and posted
Roles and story specified
Damage specified: Dmg: 49 - 55
Added mechanic to Forest Concoction:
- Consequently, if he is not near any trees he may only throw potions from the trees he was near last. (so if he runs from legion neuts into river he will only be able to throw healthy tree concoctions)
Added visual reference for Forest Phantom's whip
Fixed some general inconsistencies in spell text
Clarified/reworked button scheme/mechanics of Forest Concoction, visual reference provided.
Changed Mastery of Thorns to fully passive and rebalanced, to save hotkey space.
Changed the 'whip wrap' of Mastery of Thorns so that it may only proc when attacking enemy heroes.
FAQ section started in light of misconceived "OP" cries.



26/01/2010

Changed armor ignored while under the effects of "Phantom of Newerth": - Attacking while in this etheral form does not break the stealth effect and each attack will ignore the targets armor by the amount equal to 50% of your own armor.



27/01/2010

"Forrest Concoction"; scraped pending ability remake

[T0x]

*BUMP* because this is my second hero suggestion yet below my first on the list... This made me somewhat unhappy :P

[MrSmith]

Overall I like the Hero but i also think that the ult is too strong. Stealth should break when attacking...

[T0x]

Overall I like the Hero but i also think that the ult is too strong. Stealth should break when attacking...

I'd like to direct you to Valk's ulti for a moment...



Valkyrie's Prism

Valkyrie bends light itself, shrouding all allied heroes on the map in stealth

Action
Global

Type
Ally Heroes


Cast Time: 1.3 Seconds
Mana Cost: 200 / 250 / 300
Cooldown: 160.0 Seconds
Required Level: 6 / 11 / 16

Activation
Applies Prism to all allied heroes for 7 / 9 / 11 seconds.
Prism Effects
Does not expire from attacking or using abilities

Also note that FP is constantly fading in and out of invis, is only invis within range of tree's and it is not a global spell...

[My_Name]

Yeah but valks ult has a quite short duration...how long does this ult last?

[T0x]

Yeah but valks ult has a quite short duration...how long does this ult last?
An extra 3/6/9 seconds BUT need I remind you again that for the entire duration Forest Phantom is fading in and out of invis.

He is only invisible for 0.75 seconds at a time with a 1 second fade time....

Not to mention how easy it is to counter an invis hero... ESPECIALLY one you can actually follow because of the constant fade in/out.


Just incase you missed my point again...

HE IS FADING IN AND OUT OF INVIS AT A RATE THAT MAKES THIS SPELL FAR FROM OVERPOWERED, especially in comparison to Valks global, constant & unbreakable invis.


NOT TO MENTION>>> He must be near trees in order for the invis to activate at all.

Edit:
Some more comparisons for ya...
Scout - semi-permanent windwalk when you buy some piss cheap mana regen items, +MS and when breaking this invis with an attack scout enters a state of insane IAS for x hits... Yet you call uncontrollable fade in/out, restricted area invis op?

NightHound - permanent invisibility after lvl 6... Yet you call uncontrollable regular fade in/out, restricted area invis op?

[T0x]

BUMP

58 views and still only I have voted... wtF?!

[Izual]

First of all, I like the idea of the first skill.
Now critique:

Skill 1, (all based if I understood it completely) would the hold time of a potion (poison, whichever its called) by infinite? If not, it would further his dependence on trees which is a big setback.

Skill 2, good skill useful for teams fights and such.

Skill 3, very tree dependent which would be bad if 1st skill was not infinite because half of his skills would rely on the opponent being and remaining near a tree.

Skill 4, just read this after typing the above comments out. So I change it to 75% of this heroes skills would rely on fighting near and remaining near a tree. Though there are plenty of trees in the current maps, there are also many spots that are not close to them. This would force FP to be helpless if the fights/targets move into those zones.

So I like the idea but he is very dependent on trees. But T-Up for the creativeness.

[T0x]

First of all, I like the idea of the first skill.
Now critique:

Skill 1, (all based if I understood it completely) would the hold time of a potion (poison, whichever its called) by infinite? If not, it would further his dependence on trees which is a big setback.

Skill 2, good skill useful for teams fights and such.

Skill 3, very tree dependent which would be bad if 1st skill was not infinite because half of his skills would rely on the opponent being and remaining near a tree.

Skill 4, just read this after typing the above comments out. So I change it to 75% of this heroes skills would rely on fighting near and remaining near a tree. Though there are plenty of trees in the current maps, there are also many spots that are not close to them. This would force FP to be helpless if the fights/targets move into those zones.

So I like the idea but he is very dependent on trees. But T-Up for the creativeness.

First off I would just like to emphasis the fact that his large dependence on trees is 100% intended and part of the hero's actual theme.

1) Yes the hold time is infinite
2) Thank you, I was expecting people be a little upset by it if anything.
3) Again this is 100% intended, given the uneven spread of the lane tree's and the density of the neutral forest areas; I believe this skill will be very useful for a roamer/ganker such as FP. (think when people hide in that path at the 1st tier legion bot tower or when up against a decent juker.)
4) FP is certainly not helpless without trees, His passive + the ability to still throw potions when not near trees should be more than enough to give him a chance away from trees.
If all else fails get portal key?

[War_Mech]

Ok I read through this all, and first off I have to say that its kinda hard to read, but mostly only that first skill.

I like the whole effect of skill 1, on how you account for what side of the map your on.

Skill 2 is basic passive in a cool way,

Skill 3 is neat, but utterly realize on trees.

Skill 4 also realize on trees.

So only the passive is able to be used while not near trees?

Something neat would be having his passive, or some ability that allows him to spawn a tree (whether it be a proc on attack or on a place able location) of course the tree would only last for a set time, say 10 seconds. Maybe even make it so the tree can be destroyed in 2-3 hits, so you must react properly with your abilities in time.

Only real complaint I have is that the ult and how it ignores ALL armor, maybe 50-75% would be more reasonable. If you don't go with the spawn able tree idea I suggest at least a small benefit from this when not near trees, or like the further you are from a tree the lesser the effect. So if your within like 200 units of a tree you get max bonus and at something like 1000 units away you get the least of the benefits. Something like every 50 units further away from any trees you are you get 2% less armor ignorance .1 less crit damage and .5% less miss chance from the aura.

The numbers will need tweaking on that of course, but you get the gist of it.

[T0x]

****in bump kay?

Changed armor ignored while under the effects of "Phantom of Newerth": - Attacking while in this etheral form does not break the stealth effect and each attack will ignore the targets armor by the amount equal to 50% of your own armor.

[Twilight33]

alright her are my suggestions.


Skill 1 has too much going on and if it doesnt confuse a player gives the hero way to much utility for 1 skill point. cut the later two effects of the potion and keep the first two. change the mechanics so if you click on a dead tree it changes the make potion skill to Poison of Newerth or if you click on a healthy tree it changes the make potion skill to Enchanted Resin
Change Skill 1's name to harvest or Nature Lore current name just seems wierd to me idk why
Skill 2 i like it but i think having the Psuedo bash and the thorns ability in one skill might be a bit much. Hard to say without testing.
Way way to situational change it to something that makes tree like furions skill from dota that traps people in a ring of trees. make it produce trees opposite of what the area usually has IE legion side it makes ring of dead tress and hellborn side makes ring of living trees. this creates synergy with skills 1 and ult
i feel differently then everyone else. the invis part feels underpowered and the attack bonus seems overpowered. my immediate reaction is i dont like the ult because while it isnt exactly the same as KotF invis it has the same kind of feel to it.

[Chickenfoo]

Second skill is a little To powerful i think.

[T0x]

alright her are my suggestions.


Skill 1 has too much going on and if it doesnt confuse a player gives the hero way to much utility for 1 skill point. cut the later two effects of the potion and keep the first two. change the mechanics so if you click on a dead tree it changes the make potion skill to Poison of Newerth or if you click on a healthy tree it changes the make potion skill to Enchanted Resin
Change Skill 1's name to harvest or Nature Lore current name just seems wierd to me idk why
Skill 2 i like it but i think having the Psuedo bash and the thorns ability in one skill might be a bit much. Hard to say without testing.
Way way to situational change it to something that makes tree like furions skill from dota that traps people in a ring of trees. make it produce trees opposite of what the area usually has IE legion side it makes ring of dead tress and hellborn side makes ring of living trees. this creates synergy with skills 1 and ult
i feel differently then everyone else. the invis part feels underpowered and the attack bonus seems overpowered. my immediate reaction is i dont like the ult because while it isnt exactly the same as KotF invis it has the same kind of feel to it.



1 - I would very much like to keep it with 4 potions, it promotes players to develop multiple in-depth strategies/play styles. I will first look into simplifying the overall mechanic before I look into removing any concoctions.

2 - Yeah now that you mention it, it is a tad silly. Will rename when I work on the mechanics

3 - Well keeping in line with other bash properties, this one also has a cooldown to prevent permabashing (which I will actually increase aswell). As for the other bonuses, I'll look into an alternate scheme for it or perhaps just make it only a weapon oriented buff. (range+snare)

4 - That's the point though, it is MEANT to be that situational to emphasize this hero's role as a roaming ganker.
Again though I must point out that there is still plenty of opportunity to use this in a lane you just have to time and aim it right.

The ideal targeting cursor would be an aoe marker with a dot in the center(click point) to assist in aiming the ability.

5 - It's actually a bit stronger than you think... Should you run into combat with him while he is fading in and out, to actually fight you'll have to keep clicking on him as he fades in and out.
Or if he is chasing someone and their ally tries to disable him it could be somewhat hard to target him in time.
His ult is basically designed to make him a real pain in the ass to kill when he is in dense forest or trying to escape/chase a lane.
But not so much as to have him ridiculously hard to kill.

[T0x]

New FAQ:


Is he meant to be so damn situational/dependent on trees?

YES! I cannot stress this enough. Theme and role wise, Forest Phantom is a roaming-ganker whos purpose in Newerth is to stalk and terrorize it's dense forests. If you cannot grasp this concept then obviously it is a t-down from you.PLEASE, stop commenting on this as if it were a mistake or a totally unfathomable concept.

[OhBob]

So many quotes, I'm dizzy!

Stop adding a million low chance effects to abilities, make something more consistent.

[T0x]

So many quotes, I'm dizzy!

Stop adding a million low chance effects to abilities, make something more consistent.
With heroes that have any sort of luck based ability especially one such as a bash... It is just stupid to give them a high chance to proc. That is just begging for a skilless permabash hero.

Not to mention there may be times where you do not really want to immobilize yourself for 1.25 seconds. A high proc chance could actually do more harm than good to FP in the wrong situation...

The crit chance is low because being an agi with a passive crit even if for only a few seconds can be stupidly painful, take madman and scout for instance.
The chance to miss is also low because rather than a self buff 'evasion', it is an enemy debuff 'chance to miss' and thus, will stack with evasion properties.

[Nytemair]

Very nice hero, T-Up.

[Beiz]

Ability one;
Yes, and No. I like the concept, it's a great idea overall, the problem is the balance in actual gameplay. I understand you are fine with it, but I would personally avoid playing a hero that changes depending on side I choose, which is the outcome I can see will happen. While admittedly, he can run all the way from legion side into hellbourn side and vise versa, the problem is that he has to run all that distance in order to properly use this ability.

In my opinion, if you want this ability to work properly and fair, you need to have the map re-modelled somewhat with a few dead trees on Legion side and a few alive trees on Hellbourn side.
Idea: Grant him the ability to change the status of a tree from healthy to unhealthy, in order to fully take advantage of this ability at any given time.

Other than that, the ability is fine and interesting.


Ability two;
It's ok I guess, feels to fit a more massive hero however.



Ability "tree";
This is actually pretty interesting, as it forces enemy players to avoid trees in order to make you less effecient, and is epic if you can find a good spot to hide and leap from!

However, this ability also makes his playstyle somewhat boring, with one ability that requires a lot of running back and fort to be used potentially, a passive ability (passives are never interesting), and this one that cannot potentially be used often enough due to "IF" factors.


Ultimate;
Does it break on abilities? or are they regarded as attacks? In either case, I like this ability as a stand alone concept. but I fail to see how it synergises with ability 2 and 3, especially 2 :P Ability 1 also somewhat doesn't seem that amazing in combination.. :/

[T0x]

Ability one;
{Yes, and No. I like the concept, it's a great idea overall, the problem is the balance in actual gameplay. I understand you are fine with it, but I would personally avoid playing a hero that changes depending on side I choose, which is the outcome I can see will happen. While admittedly, he can run all the way from legion side into hellbourn side and vise versa, the problem is that he has to run all that distance in order to properly use this ability.

In my opinion, if you want this ability to work properly and fair, you need to have the map re-modelled somewhat with a few dead trees on Legion side and a few alive trees on Hellbourn side.
Idea: Grant him the ability to change the status of a tree from healthy to unhealthy, in order to fully take advantage of this ability at any given time.

Other than that, the ability is fine and interesting.}


{{Ability two;
It's ok I guess, feels to fit a more massive hero however.}}



{{{Ability "tree";
This is actually pretty interesting, as it forces enemy players to avoid trees in order to make you less effecient, and is epic if you can find a good spot to hide and leap from!

However, this ability also makes his playstyle somewhat boring, with one ability that requires a lot of running back and fort to be used potentially, a passive ability (passives are never interesting), and this one that cannot potentially be used often enough due to "IF" factors.}}}


{{{{Ultimate;
Does it break on abilities? or are they regarded as attacks? In either case, I like this ability as a stand alone concept. but I fail to see how it synergises with ability 2 and 3, especially 2 :P Ability 1 also somewhat doesn't seem that amazing in combination.. :/}}}}

{I DO see where the concerns people are having come from, but I'm not sure why it's so... upsetting or intimidating(for lack of a better word, sorry i just woke up).
Even heroes already labeled as 'roaming gankers' are far from this dependent on trees and moving all over the map, I know this...
But isn't one of the best things about HoN's near limitless engine; the ability to have all sorts of conceptual heroes that may not be ideal for line-up A but perfect for line-up B?

However after the amount of confusion/hatred/dislike this ability is getting I guess I have no choice but to abandon one of the key factors of his theme =_= (Yeah I'm a little peeved about this, but I'll take it on the chin like a good 'dev')}

{{ Could you please be more specific about your concerns here/what you mean by "massive hero" }}

{{{ (Did get a giggle at "ability 'tree'" :P)
Again another key element to this hero's concept of being a true roamer/gank hero. Yes it is situational but it is not as useless as everyone is making it out to be... I'm going to actually take some in-game screens to demonstrate this.

What is REALLY starting to piss me off is that people are more than happy to have heroes such as warbeast/temp/scout/KotF/Potm/Pyro who are designed to either neutral alot, stalk enemy forests or roam/gank all game... (Or hell, panda doesn't even need to target a fkn tree, granted he has a self debuff if he fails.)

But heaven forbid someone suggest a hero who is not only designed for this but actually has a strong theme supporting the concept.

He has lived in the forests, stalking them, killing unaware wanderers for centuries... Does it not make sense that he should be 95% centralized around forest ganking/combat?

Is it REALLY that impractical when the tree-line of lanes generally ends up choking to a degree that often have heroes within range of tree's without even noticing?
In the middle of a 5v5 team battle do you really have time to ensure you are not too close to a tree? The chances of SOMEONE being close enough to a tree for this spell to work are so much higher than everyone thinks.
Next game you're in-game, humor me with this; I would like you to focus primarily on staying out of range of trees and tell me just how effective you become when you're shitting yourself at the thought of a tree.}}}

{{{{ Yes it does break on abilities. I'll specify this in the description, Thanks.
It synergizes with 1 and 3 in the sense that it increases his effectiveness as that forest stalking ganker. However I do see what you mean by it being bad for ability 2...
But in a sense it kind of helps balance the combination of the two out a bit.

Ideally the ulti is a mild help to the 'whip wrap' as during the time FP would be imobilized with his target, FP would be fading in/out and thus helping him avoid being butt****ed by someone else in this dual-immobilized state.}}}}

Just as a closing statement for this post; I appologize if I have come across as close-minded about change/rude/immature/"its my idea gtfo".
I'm just baffled by everyone's immediate dislike of a concept that is not necessarily new but being applied in a more restricted way. No one seems to care about a hero such as KotF who's role limitations are very similar to that of FP.
I don't see anyone demanding that he become superman and be buffed in ways that infinitize his strategic roles.
(I also just woke up and may need a little more time to clear my 'morning aggression').
I APPRECIATE ALL FEEDBACK GIVEN even if I do sound butthurt at times by it.