Mana spirit! The first item of its kind!!!

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

MANA SPIRIT!!!

This icon is in its early creation stages, this is just a concept.

http://i47.tinypic.com/4t8sn5.jpg
The master of a Mana Spirit becomes a master of mana, and may choose who will suffer to achieve that title.


EDIT: Changed mechanics of the activation.

This concept of Mana Spirit came to me while thinking about what HoN was missing as far as items went. It occurred to me that there are not many items that deal solely with mana, the only one I could really think of was Ring of Sorcery, and its uses are very limited and is rarely seen.
Going even farther than just dealing in the realm of mana, the intel hero currently has the narrowest spectrum for item choices. (What I mean by this is that intel heroes have the biggest restriction for buying efficient items early/mid game, I do not want to get into an argument about how any hero can get anything, I AM GENERALIZING).

Because of all this I thought to myself, an item that dealt with mana and was an affordable and useful item for an intel caster would be very useful, and to go beyond this even useful for a semi-carry or ganker. And from that, the concepts below were born, check them out!



OPTION ONE:

Components:

Ring of the Teacher: (500)
http://i33.tinypic.com/110zubq.jpg

Great Arcana: (1675)
http://i36.tinypic.com/1pa1qs.jpg

Recipe: (900)

http://i38.tinypic.com/ofvxad.jpg

THIS ITEM IS UPGRADABLE FROM LESSER MANA SPIRIT TO MANA SPIRIT TO GREATER MANA SPIRIT!!!
Total cost: 3075/3975/4875


Item Properties:

Stats:

Intelligence: 16/19/22
Damage: 10/12/14
Attack speed: 12/14/16
Mana: 100/160/220
Brilliance aura: 1.2/1.35/1.5

Activation:
The Mana Spirit is released upon an enemy unit at a blinding speed, drains 160/240/320 mana from the target over 2 seconds at a cost of 80/120/160 mana from the caster. The caster receives half of the mana drained, and if the target's mana hits 0 before the drain is complete, the remaining time of the 2 seconds become a stun, has a 35/30/25 second cooldown.




OPTION TWO:


Components:

Ring of the Teacher: (500)
http://i33.tinypic.com/110zubq.jpg

Mark of the Novice: (150)
http://i33.tinypic.com/33w07z4.jpg

Mark of the Novice: (150)
http://i33.tinypic.com/33w07z4.jpg


Recipe: (500)

http://i38.tinypic.com/ofvxad.jpg



Item Properties:

Stats:



Intelligence: 6
Brilliance aura: 1


Activation:
The Mana Spirit is released upon an enemy unit at a blinding speed, steals 150 mana from the target at a cost of 75 mana from the caster, has a 30 second cooldown.


As many of you will understand, it is not easy to balance an item's stats. I am actively trying to balance this item to make it an item that will not sit in the, "almost never used item class." I appreciate all suggestions and input, and when I have gathered a sufficient amount I will make a final thread of the most popular choice and see how it goes.


More options coming soon...

At this current moment I cannot go into too much depth as to what this item is good for, but I can give the general idea and some of the heroes it would work well with.

This item is intended to be a mid/late game item or early/mid game item (depending on which option you're looking at), that can be widely used and be very useful. At the moment, there are not many items except the Ring of Sorcery that can increase your mana in bursts. This item, not only can do such, but can also serve as an offensive mana draining item against enemy heroes.

Essentially, it is almost like an early game silence against those low mana early and mid gamers, and you can also use that mana stolen to help finish off the gank.

Because of this, option two becomes a very viable item to mana reliant heroes. I will not go into too much depth of why, but I will give the faces and leave the figuring out to you. All of these given heroes would not necessarily get this item, but could certainly find use from it (basically, I am not saying that it will dominate other item options, but could be substituted as a different strategy). :valk::tort::pyro::hamm::dead::thun::moon::glac::m age::blac::pred::mali::behe::poll::wret::witc:: phar::madm::devo::andr::pest::legi::slit::pebb::kr ak::pand::dark::sand::temp::succ: I AM SORRY THAT SOME OF THE PICTURES ARE MESSED UP, ITS THE THREAD EDITOR'S FAULT!


This is indeed a big list, and to articulate my reasons for picking these heroes, the best thing I can say is that they all function well with a large mana pool more than most, and would be assisted by a mana drain from their opponent. Most of the heroes I have listed are gankers, but there are still other support and semi-carry heroes that also greatly benefit from it.

If you don't like my picks I'm sorry, I made this list in about two minutes.

Please comment!

[Xozzen]

I'd prefer first options because of it slight lategame scale, and mana drain on items is nice :)

[soldat12]

i like both option.

if you gonna use 1st option, you need to increase mana steal for a little. 170 mana steal for 3k gold dont make much sense for me. maybe 210 or so

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

For all of you who are posting no, it's completely useless to me if you don't post why. Please make at least a small comment.

[T0x]

Option one for sure.
Upgradeable items bring a lovely level of diversity to the game and really adds to the item's stipulation.

In my opinion even the numbers are very well balanced.

Having opted for option 1, that does not mean I wouldn't also be happy with option 2.

T-up


For all of you who are posting no, it's completely useless to me if you don't post why. Please make at least a small comment.
Don't ask a retard to take up rocket science dude.
If someone votes no and has nothing to say... Personally I wouldn't want to hear any of their probably uneducated nonsense.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Bump

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Seeing as how option one seems to be most popular so far, if anyone has suggestions on how to improve option 1, by all means please tell me.

[mjukost]

This is one of those items i find totaly awesome. Back in the days when i used to play dota, NA (nerubian assassin) had a skill somewhat like this, except it didn't give you any mana back. I still remember the fierce of facing him on a lane, now bringing this item into the game will change alot of strategies. Something i'm all-in for!

As you've listed, this is not only useful on int heros, but on, to be honest, most heros in the game! This beeing such a powerful item, i also agree on the a bit high cost of it. This one should'nt come cheap! Yet it's a combination of items needed for it, meaning it will be easy enough to get!

I'm talking about option one, which will make it viable even in lategame.

This one gets a T-up from me, no doubt about it.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

This is one of those items i find totaly awesome. Back in the days when i used to play dota, NA (nerubian assassin) had a skill somewhat like this, except it didn't give you any mana back. I still remember the fierce of facing him on a lane, now bringing this item into the game will change alot of strategies. Something i'm all-in for!

Thanks, in all actuality one of the things that inspired this idea WAS NA's mana burn, and how even without the damage it still serves as a weapon for it prevents the opponent from casting a potential spell.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

I would like some mana drain alteration suggestions. The idea behind those numbers is that it's more hurtful to the enemy than helpful to you (you do gain 70 mana, but they lose 170, greatly hurting their mana pool early game).

[Sir_Elhanan]

I like option 1. Theres not enough scaling items in HoN and an activatable mana sap sounds awesome. Would you think about changing the brilliance aura to something cooler? Maybe a mana sapping aura? Anyhow keep up the good work (And also good idea of adding the Ring of the Teacher to your item).

[Swift09]

brilliant... this item would have much potential...scaling can be fixed at any time however the concept is solid. The only problem is that i fear it would severely nerf some of the low int heroes. That could be fixed by drastically increasing the item price. Good Work!

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

I did have the same thoughts about the potential nerf on the low int heroes. The only way I can counter that argument is by saying that a low int hero (who will probably be a ganker) will get a huge benefit from this. Thanks for your input!

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Another no vote, and still nothing but positive responses. PLEASE, leave a message of your opinion of what this item needs or why it is a bad idea if you have voted no!

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

I like option 1. Theres not enough scaling items in HoN and an activatable mana sap sounds awesome. Would you think about changing the brilliance aura to something cooler? Maybe a mana sapping aura? Anyhow keep up the good work (And also good idea of adding the Ring of the Teacher to your item).

Was thinking about that, but at the moment I think a simple aura works. I don't think HoN needs too many new aspects at the moment. A small change could disrupt the balance of the entire game depending on what that change is. But yeah, I am still chipping at that idea to make it refined.

[Xenorun]

I'm refraining from voting atm. The concept I love a lot. The numbers however strike me as OP in its current form.

The main concern I see with option one is the cooldown with rank three. 16 seconds is really potent. I understand it would take quite a bit of effort and gold to achieve rank three of this item, but it seems as if it would be fairly sought after by a large number of heroes. So one could obtain it rather early if they focused it.

What if all numbers stayed the same, except the cooldown never changed from 30 seconds? Do you think that would cripple the concept and the item itself? I'm just nervous about a 400 mana steal with a 16 second cooldown. Thats rather beefy.

[Strills]

This is more or less WS's ability in an item. I don't like the idea of making a skill into an item.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

This is more or less WS's ability in an item. I don't like the idea of making a skill into an item.

What's assassin's shroud? A windwalk ability. What's codex? WS and Pyro's ult. What's Sheepstick? Every hex in the game.

Fail comment, items are supposed to make a hero's ability possible to get. Please think for at least 5 seconds before you make a comment like this.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

I'm refraining from voting atm. The concept I love a lot. The numbers however strike me as OP in its current form.

The main concern I see with option one is the cooldown with rank three. 16 seconds is really potent. I understand it would take quite a bit of effort and gold to achieve rank three of this item, but it seems as if it would be fairly sought after by a large number of heroes. So one could obtain it rather early if they focused it.

What if all numbers stayed the same, except the cooldown never changed from 30 seconds? Do you think that would cripple the concept and the item itself? I'm just nervous about a 400 mana steal with a 16 second cooldown. Thats rather beefy.

I see this and understand exactly, hope my changes are satisfactory.

[Xenorun]

I see this and understand exactly, hope my changes are satisfactory.

Seems a lot better to me. Though my opinion is just one of many. But having it being a 24 second cooldown at max rank seems fairly balanced. I'd still love to see this get implemented.

T-Up for ya now. Good stuff.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Thanks for your input, and your approval.

[PoopyDesires]

Just not original. Effective yes, but fun and original are what I call the most important things, and a mana grab does definitely not qualify in that category.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Just not original. Effective yes, but fun and original are what I call the most important things, and a mana grab does definitely not qualify in that category.

I respect your opinion, but almost all item suggestions are overblown, overcomplicated, and are too much for the game to take and remain balanced. I was not trying to be original, just trying to suggest something I feel that HoN is serious lacking and could hugely benefit from.

Thank you for your input though!

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

New Question. I would like to improve my icon, does anyone have any suggestions of what I might do to it in order to make it look better?

Thanks

[Scythe]

While it is a nice item since NA is not in HoN, it should NOT be a mana drain like Witch Slayer, it should be a burn like NA. Whether or not it does damage based on that mana burned is up to you.

Mana Spirit already gives you Int and mana regen, but having its active ability not only give you mana but eat opponents' mana is far too powerful unless the base item's stats are weak such as when making a Codex.

Currently, skills/items that can drain enemy mana pools are considered powerful, especially in combination (Vindicator, Electrician, Witch Slayer, Magebane, Nullfire). Heroes/items that restore mana like Nymph, Glacius, Power Supply, and Ring of Sorcery are some of the most powerful support stuff out there. An item like this would do both of these things in one shot, so you definitely need to change it to a hard burn.

Holding my vote, good luck.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

What do you think of this? I understood your viewpoint, but I didn't want to make it too close to codex (meaning that one would be better than the other and the other never used). So what do you think of this change?

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Comments on the new mana drain plz!

[FlyingFury]

i like the concept but the stats and stuff feel weird

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

i like the concept but the stats and stuff feel weird

What do you think can be done? I'm more than open to suggestions.

[FlyingFury]

well i think that HoN is all about balance and makeing it so people can try and counter spells/items as much as they can so how about a draining effect? like say over 4-5 sec? and make it more mana like 190/280/370
the dmg they would take though isnt much so how about a mini stun?
for every 50 or 75 or 100 mana taken there is a .5 sec stun or something with some dmg

just throwing random ideas out there for you..

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Thanks for the ideas, processing a new idea.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Slight modification to ability

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

If anyone thinks a number should be changed, please say so.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Views on new activation effects? Anyone?

[FlyingFury]

gaining only half the mana means that you would spend the same amount being gained. this is a late game item but for some reason i dont feel like it could help out to much during late game. since their are a lot of other items you need before this. I can see the 2nd item being used if you can get it erly enough but the first item i dont see being used to much

[FlyingFury]

i think it would be nice actually if you DID drain all the mana then it is a 2 sec stun
i see this item on witch slayer if that were the case

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

I intentionally put it so that you would gain the exact same mana as it costs, just means that you have to have a certain amount of mana to use it in the first place. To your comment about late game uses for the first option, the idea behind this item would be to give an int hero an item to rush for besides staff of the masters, sheepstick or whatever. Getting to lv 1 isn't that hard, and the boosts are satisfactory as an item. When you get additional gold, either buy other stuff you might need or go back to upgrading to increase the effects of it if you're not in the need of anything else. It's good for a ganker who needs mana, and the requirements are all viable things to get early game, dmg, attack speed, mana regen...

I don't think there's anything about it that makes it unfit for a first item (after your boots and maybe a fortified bracelet or whatever), because of what it costs and how it's priced. And upgrading it is cheap, so if it's working well for you an upgrade would make it even better and help your game, not hurt it.

Late game, essentially the main use would be to bring down low mana heroes who still need their spells (like madman for example).

And addressing the not gaining any mana from casting it, the item itself already gives you a huge boost in mana and regen, I don't think that getting it from the cast will help too much. But numbers are changeable...

Thanks, please respond

[Zarent]

Moving this to Sandbox until you solidify which option you want to take. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.