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T0x
01-23-2010, 04:29 AM
*Special note to S2 staff*
If this hero is implemented in the future I would like to be the one who does the voice set for him. I'm sure it'd be nice to be able to release a new hero with it's voice set on the same day. :)



The Sadist
Hellbourne affiliated tank, aggressor & initiator

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae43/toxicity802/TheSadist-Portrait.jpg

As the war rages on in Newerth, the Legion's call to arms goes out even as far as their prisons and dungeons. Releasing the most brutal criminals to utilize their animalistic fury in battle; the Legion called upon one known only as 'The Sadist'.
Who upon his release, betrayed the ones who set him free... Slaughtering them and escaping into the night. The Sadist's misdeeds had not gone unheard of by the Hellbourne, they swiftly tracked him down and recruited the deranged mind that is The Sadist.
Why did he say yes? Who needs a reason to kill their own brethren?

Str: 25 + 2.6
Int: 12 + 1.6
Agi: 18 + 1.5
Dmg: 45 - 51

Base HP: 524 | 0.82/s HP regen
<( 25{base} + 2.4{lvl1} ) x ( 19 HP per str )= 524.4> | <( 25{base} + 2.4{lvl1} ) x ( 0.03/s HP regen per str )= 0.82>
Base MP: 177 | 0.54/s MP regen
<( 12{base} + 1.6{lvl1} ) x ( 13 MP per int)= 176.8> | <( 12{base} + 1.6{lvl1} ) x ( 0.03/s MP regen per int)= 0.54>
Base attack speed: 0.68 attacks per second
Base Armor: 1.42 | Dmg. Reduction = 8%
Base Magic Armor: 5.5 | Magic Dmg. Reduction = 25%
Attack type:Toggle; Melee (range 100) & Ranged (575)
Movement speed: 295
Turn speed: 0.3
Cast speed: 0.4



Sadism




Type: Active(toggle).
Target: Self.
Mana Cost: 75(activation) | (8/7/6/5 per second while active.) | Will not drain mana below 15%.
Cooldown: 2(toggle)

Description:
The Sadist's twisted mind derives immense pleasure from physical pain. Every attack makes him yearn for more, pushing him further into battle. Extreme conditions do tend to slow him down though.


Effects:
On successful physical attack against The Sadist
- Heals self for 2/4/4/6% of your current* HP.
- Every 5/6/6/7 attacks against the sadist will apply "Wrong spot!" to The Sadist.

* Current meaning how much HP you have remaining as opposed to your maximum hp.

"Wrong Spot!" Effects
-Minus 21/18/15/12 movement speed for 1.5 seconds.


Visuals
Active: When activated The Sadist should drip a small amount of blood behind him as he walks and every attack made against The Sadist should tint him a dark red for a split second.
This ability is the major contributor to The Sadist's tanking ability and theoretically is balanced out well by the mana upkeep and guaranteed 'self-slow'.
Sadist's tools




Type: Active(toggle)
Target: Self
Mana Cost: 0
Cooldown: 1(toggle) | 14/12/10/10(ammo respawn)

Description:
A master of many torturous implements, The Sadist favors his axe and tomahawks over all and often carries both into battle.


Effects:


Melee - Axe (Default)
- 0.3% chance (per base agility point) on attack to apply "Viscous wound" to the target for 4 seconds, may stack up to 2 times. On proc, viscous wounds enters a cooldown of 6 seconds similar to bash properties.
* 54 (lvl 25 base agi) x 0.3 = 16.2% chance to proc

"Viscous wound" Effects
- Inflicts physical damage every 2 seconds equal to 30/45/60/75% of The Sadist's base strength.
* <75% of 87.4{lvl25 base str} = 65.55>; <65.55 x 2(damage ticks) = 131.1>; Maximum damage before armor calculation = 131.1 over 4 seconds.
- Minus 0.5/0.6/0.7/0.8 armor.
* Only the minus armor stacks


Ranged - Tomahawks
- Increase attack range from 100 to 575
- Minus (20 - 25)/(20 - 20)/(15 - 20)/(15 - 15) base damage
- Increases attack speed by 10%
- 5/8/12/16% chance for 1.6x critical strike

***Mechanical note: The Sadist's ranged attack is dependent on ammunition. A single Tomahawk(ammunition) will accumulate every 14/12/10/10 seconds with a maximum of 10/14/18/22 accumulated tomahawks.


Visuals
Melee: The Sadist should carry a large 2 handed, bloodstained, rusted axe in melee form.
Ranged: The tomahawks thrown by the sadist should have a noticeable but small arch in their flight and have a slightly smaller bleed animation on hit than that of the melee hits.
Yes I realize that this is the same basic concept as Troll Warlord's(DotA) melee/range toggling, hence why I tried to twist it up a bit without having another right-click-and-win hero.
Bloodlunge




Type: Physical damage/self and target stun.
Target: Enemy unit.
Mana Cost: 100/110/130/170.
Cooldown: 20/18/16/14 seconds
Cast time: Instant cast for melee | 1 second channel for ranged | Lunge time equal to movement speed
Range: 450/500/550/600
Damage: 90/145/180/215

Description:
Channeling his rage and bloodlust into a mighty lunge, The Sadist lashes out at his target impaling them with his axe with such force that even The Sadist is thrown off balance and must regain himself.


Effects:
On cast
- Lunges at the target dealing damage on impact and stunning them for 0.6/0.9/1.2/1.5 seconds.
- Applies "Off balance" to self for 1/1.3/1.6/1.9 seconds
***Mechanical note: Can be cast on magic immune units, however;
- The target will only take 50% damage from the spell
- The target will not be stunned
- The Sadist will still have "Off balance" applied to him

"Off balance" Effects
- Minus 20% attack speed for entire duration.
- Minus 2 armor for 1 second


Visuals
Active: The Sadist should glow a faint red during the channel and air time, upon impact the target should bleed profusely for 3 seconds and leave behind a small blood puddle at the location of impact.
This spell is again much like that of another hero(Pandamonium's 'cannonball' to be precise) in the way that after such a versatile and powerful stun is cast, your hero is also immobilized so as to limit the magnitude at which this heroes skills may be cast in synergy.
*Ult* Lust of the Sadistic




Type: Superior magic.
Target: Enemy unit.
Mana Cost: 150/175/210.
Cooldown: 60/75/105 seconds
Cast time: 1
Cast Range: 250/275/300
Charge gain Radius: 550

Description:
The Sadist's lust for blood and gore is insatiable. The more death he sees, the more he craves... his addiction often causes him to lash out in an unconsolable rage.


Effects:
Passive
- Whenever a hero dies around The Sadist he gains one 'Large body' charge towards "Lust of the Sadistic". Cap of 6/7/8
- Whenever a creep dies around The Sadist he gains one 'Small body' charge towards "Lust of the Sadistic". Cap of 5/10/15
- Plus 0.4 HP/s regen per 'Small body' charge.
- Every attack you make while under the effects of "Unconsolable" will consume one 'Large body' charge and all 'Small body' charges are dispelled after all 'Large body' charges have been depleted. Note that all charges are lost upon death.

On activation
- Focuses on the target, immobilizing them for 0.4/0.8/1 seconds and rendering The Sadist unable to attack any other units until all charges are depleted or until the target dies/becomes disjonted from the spell.
* If any charges remain after the target has died or become disjointed, The Sadist's focus will change to the nearest unit and use any remaining charges. If the new target is an ally they will take 75/50/25% of the damage you would normally deal to an enemy.
- Applies "Unconsolable" to The Sadist

"Unconsolable" Effects
- Plus 20/40/60% increased attack speed
- Plus 10/20/30 damage and 1/1.25/1.5% lifesteal(will stack with all life steal items) per 'Large body' charge.
- Damage taken increased by 20/15/10%


Visuals
Active: The Sadist should let out a deep gutteral roar and appear to throb all over during the cast time. During the attack itself The Sadist's attack should have a mild motion-blur effect and the target should bleed a little more than Bloodhunter's 'Hemorrage'.
After some thought I reworked the ulti into this... .
Strategy
Roles this hero would excel in:
- Gank initiator
- Team fight initiator (also good at singling out a target during a team fight)
- Lane aggression
- Misdirection

Recommended items (Core):
http://i33.tinypic.com/2vxhv9f.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/2wd9esz.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/2wd9esz.jpghttp://i34.tinypic.com/sff52q.jpghttp://i36.tinypic.com/2ilm0i1.jpghttp://i35.tinypic.com/1zoezx5.jpg

Recommended items (Luxury):
http://i38.tinypic.com/2d6zvb.jpghttp://i33.tinypic.com/1z4byme.jpghttp://i35.tinypic.com/1iogwj.jpghttp://i38.tinypic.com/iqdg7r.jpghttp://i38.tinypic.com/qq4dnl.jpg

Early game lane partners:
:andr::valk::vood::deme::jera::elec: Any hero that can assist you in an aoe/disable/heal fashion will be invaluable to your early game. A hero like Demented Shaman would also be one you could look to an early first blood with.


Q and A

Why have you blatantly ripped off several abilities already in DotA or HoN?
While these abilities will most certainly remind you of other heroes, I'd like to think the way I have integrated them into The Sadist's theme plus modifications is an acceptable concept.

What exactly is this hero's role meant to be?
Much like Predator, Maliken or Kraken; The Sadist would be used well as an aggressive lane tank and team battle/gank initiator.
Focusing mainly on taking down singular targets and misdirecting incoming enemy damage is the general forte here but The Sadist also has moderate team support with his lunge and ult.

Wow... another hero with 3284763289 effects per spell, seriously?
Yeah I admit some things may seem a little over the top, but surely you can see I've at least tried to have a negative self effect on every spell?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________




--Change Log--
Dates are in Australian format (dd/mm/yyyy)


23/01/2010

Hero suggestion created and posted
Added cooldowns to the toggle of Sadism(2s) and Sadist's Tools(1s)
Added visual descriptions for all spells.

Altered base stats from:
Str: 23 + 2.4
Int: 16 + 1.7
Agi: 18 + 1.5

Base HP: 535 (23 x 19 = 473 | + 62) | 0.69 regen (23 x 0.03 = 0.69)
Base MP: 208 (16 x 13 = 208) | 0.64 regen (16 x 0.04 = 0.69)

to:
Str: 25 + 2.6
Int: 12 + 1.6
Agi: 18 + 1.5

Base HP: 524 | 0.82/s HP regen
<( 25{base} + 2.4{lvl1} ) x ( 19 HP per str )= 524.4> | <( 25{base} + 2.4{lvl1} ) x ( 0.03/s HP regen per str )= 0.82>
Base MP: 177 | 0.54/s MP regen
<( 12{base} + 1.6{lvl1} ) x ( 13 MP per int)= 176.8> | <( 12{base} + 1.6{lvl1} ) x ( 0.03/s MP regen per int)= 0.54>
Rebalanced "Viscous wound"
Reduced chance per agi to 0.3% and to only factor base agility.
Now only the armor debuff will stack, not the damage.
Increased damage from 2/4/6/8% to 30/45/60/75% of The Sadist's base strength. (Original numbers were applied before the actual damage was calculated)
Calculated max damage for reference and added a cooldown to the proc.
Decided on 45 - 51 for base damage.
Strategy section added.



24/01/2010

Increased and rescaled chance to crit while using tomahawks from 3/6/9/12% to 5/8/12/16% chance for 1.6x critical strike
Rescaled mana cost of "Masochistic rage" from 160/185/235 to 150/175/210.
Specified turn speed; Turn speed: 0.45
Specified cast speed; Cast speed: 0.4
Remade ultimate entirely

*Ult* Lust of the Sadistic




Type: Passive(charge)/active(self buff/enemy debuff).
Target: Enemy hero.
Mana Cost: 150/175/210.
Cooldown: 60/75/105 seconds
Cast time: 1
Range: 250/275/300

Description:
The Sadist's lust for blood and gore is insatiable. The more death he sees, the more he craves... his addiction often causes him to lash out in an unconsolable rage.


Effects:
Passive
- Whenever a hero dies around The Sadist he gains one 'Large body' charge towards "Lust of the Sadistic". Cap of 6/7/8
- Whenever a creep dies around The Sadist he gains one 'Small body' charge towards "Lust of the Sadistic". Cap of 5/10/15
- Plus 0.4 HP/s regen per 'Small body' charge.
- Every attack you make while under the effects of "Unconsolable" will consume one 'Large body' charge and all 'Small body' charges are dispelled after all 'Large body' charges have been depleted. Note that all charges are lost upon death.

On activation
- Focuses on the target, immobilizing them for 0.4/0.8/1 seconds and rendering The Sadist unable to attack any other units until all charges are depleted or until the target dies/becomes disjonted from the spell.
- Applies "Unconsolable" to The Sadist

"Unconsolable" Effects
- Plus 20/40/60% increased attack speed
- Plus 10/20/30 damage and 1/1.25/1.5% lifesteal(will stack with all life steal items) per 'Large body' charge.
- Damage taken increased by 20/15/10%


Visuals
Active: The Sadist should let out a deep gutteral roar and appear to throb all over during the cast time. During the attack itself The Sadist's attack should have a mild motion-blur effect and the target should bleed a little more than Bloodhunter's 'Hemorrage'.
After some thought I reworked the ulti into this... .

Added new mechanic to "Lust of the Sadistic": * If any charges remain after the target has died or become disjointed, The Sadist's focus will change to the nearest unit and use any remaining charges. If the new target is an ally they will take 75/50/25% of the damage you would normally deal to an enemy.

T0x
01-23-2010, 09:07 AM
28 views, 2 votes... and no feedback AT ALL?!
C'mon guys, someone MUST have something to say about this?

T0x
01-23-2010, 10:55 AM
Strategy section added.

Twilight33
01-23-2010, 11:39 AM
idk balance wise what this would do but i think theme wise it would be better if you changed Skill 1 to heal based on % of missing health imo.

His ult seems a bit weak for an ult and the mana cost is pretty high.

T0x
01-23-2010, 11:50 AM
idk balance wise what this would do but i think theme wise it would be better if you changed Skill 1 to heal based on % of missing health imo.

His ult seems a bit weak for an ult and the mana cost is pretty high.

Well themewise it would suit more, yes. But looking at the balance of it; % remaining basically just means it takes a little longer to get The Sadist to low hp and the lower his HP the less he is healed.
However if we went with % missing, the closer he is to death the heavier he will heal. thus creating another Maliken.

So instead I went with harder to get down rather than harder to keep down, if that makes sense.

With the ult, the mana cost is high because overall he only has low-medium mana consumption for a str hero.I've never been a fan of seeing str heroes that never have mana issues with their ult.

This hero focuses a lot on physical combat not so much the mana up keep, if he had a good physical combat AND low mana costs; he would be like Maliken was on his first day... a shitstorm of OP and fail.

Having said all that though, considering it was the first bit of feedback given... I shall take it on board and re-scale the mana cost accordingly. :)

Regomantis
01-23-2010, 12:24 PM
The numbers are awful... He would probably be the most underpowered hero ever... His first skill is really cool but the rest are too bland. Also, I can't figure out what the tomahawks are there for. Seems like his ulti is the crappy version of Malikens if this sadist turns on his mohawks... 2.5 armor reduction is nothing...

Also, concept's abit too kinky for my taste.

T0x
01-23-2010, 12:49 PM
The numbers are awful... He would probably be the most underpowered hero ever... His first skill is really cool but the rest are too bland. Also, I can't figure out what the tomahawks are there for. Seems like his ulti is the crappy version of Malikens if this sadist turns on his mohawks... 2.5 armor reduction is nothing...

Also, concept's abit too kinky for my taste.

Could you please give at least a couple of examples of "awful numbers"?
By too bland do you mean not unique enough? or just flat out lacking in utlity...

The tomahawks are more-so a way to entice people to try multiple strategies with him. They kind of just scrape into the theme I know, any suggestions how to make them more suitable/alluring?

I just took note of all the similarities between The Sadist's and Maliken's ulti... You're right I'll rework this immediately. In regards to the armor reduction though, if we take into account that at level 16 he is capable of reducing a targets armor by 3.8... Now this might also seem rather underpowered but too much free armor reduction would make "Viscous wound" insanely powerful.
Especially coupled with Daemonic Breastplate or Shieldbreaker.



PS: The concept was toned down quite extensively before I posted :P

T0x
01-23-2010, 02:47 PM
Ok well I'm gonnna be a douche and bump the thread with this post... Oh and I'll be re-thinking "Sadist's tools" when I wake up.

Nytemair
01-23-2010, 10:46 PM
I actually like the idea of having the Warlord's ranged/melee swap in HoN. Very cool hero but i think he's lacking in passives. Sure, if you want him to be like Pharaoh, Keeper of the Forest, Panda, Electrician or Deadwood then by all means, keep him as he is, but i think he has the potential for a cool semi-carry passive or something. Great idea tho ;D
-----------------------------------------------------
By the way, the ammo suggestion for the range/melee swap is a really nice idea, i was thinking of making a remake of Scout like that, but hey, It's scout. :P
T-up.

T0x
01-24-2010, 01:31 AM
Added new mechanic to "Lust of the Sadistic": * If any charges remain after the target has died or become disjointed, The Sadist's focus will change to the nearest unit and use any remaining charges. If the new target is an ally they will take 75/50/25% of the damage you would normally deal to an enemy.

@ Nytemair

"Sure, if you want him to be like Pharaoh, Keeper of the Forest, Panda, Electrician or Deadwood" - What do you mean by this exactly? I'm just curious what comparisons you're making there is all :)

"I actually like the idea of having the Warlord's ranged/melee swap in HoN." / "By the way, the ammo suggestion for the range/melee swap is a really nice idea," - Yeah that's one of the reasons I was trying to bring it in... It's a good concept just insanely OP on troll(IMO).
The ammo thing was a way of balancing it considering the IAS and crit chance, I'm still looking at reworking it a bit so that the range side can synergize a bit better with the rest of the hero.

Caeltos1
01-24-2010, 06:38 AM
Looks like Astaroth to me.

T0x
01-24-2010, 07:35 AM
Looks like Astaroth to me.
The portrait is just something grabbed off the net and a little blood photoshopped in. So there's a damn good chance that it IS a character from another game.
However it does match the desired theme for The Sadist.
A fierce looking, well toned, minimally but brutally armored, bloodsoaked madman.

Caeltos1
01-24-2010, 09:04 AM
The portrait is just something grabbed off the net and a little blood photoshopped in. So there's a damn good chance that it IS a character from another game.
However it does match the desired theme for The Sadist.
A fierce looking, well toned, minimally but brutally armored, bloodsoaked madman.

Or just Astaroth with blood on him. Not very imaginative.

T0x
01-24-2010, 09:26 AM
Or just Astaroth with blood on him. Not very imaginative.
Are you seriously trying to be e-tough or something here?
I used a pre-made picture with some minor editing to help express the desired look of this hero and you're telling me off for it?

So it's ok to explain what you want your hero to look like but damn to the depths of hell, anyone who would dare use an easy to find, accurate image from the net for added reference and visual aid....?

What next? Are you gonna turn around and tell me that andromeda isn't an interesting looking hero simply because she's a floating human with a cosmos-style texture?

Caeltos1
01-24-2010, 12:45 PM
Are you seriously trying to be e-tough or something here?
I used a pre-made picture with some minor editing to help express the desired look of this hero and you're telling me off for it?

So it's ok to explain what you want your hero to look like but damn to the depths of hell, anyone who would dare use an easy to find, accurate image from the net for added reference and visual aid....?



Sorry for expressing my opinion on a forum.


What next? Are you gonna turn around and tell me that andromeda isn't an interesting looking hero simply because she's a floating human with a cosmos-style texture?

This has anything to do with your hero suggestion? Not sure what you're getting at. Considering that Andromeda's concept art and whatnot was made by artists that makes a living out of it, and didn't exactly steal the design from something (I could be wrong on that) and the actual design was implemented in the game later on. I do not picture Astaroth with blood on him in this game, because I'm fairly sure the stample "Copyright" is all over him. (Intresting about Witch Slayer and Pyromancer, since they are blatant rip-offs from Warhammer Witch Hunters and Bright Wizards, shame on you artists!).

If you want to post a general design, I'd say make something yourself. Rather then the typical youngboy wishful thinking "he is like tis and but cooler!!". Hell, if you even made up something in paint and it looked like crap I would give you some creds for having the balls and imaginative thinking. Onfortunately, in this case. I cannot give you any. :-)

T0x
01-24-2010, 01:18 PM
Sorry for expressing my opinion on a forum.



This has anything to do with your hero suggestion? Not sure what you're getting at. Considering that Andromeda's concept art and whatnot was made by artists that makes a living out of it, and didn't exactly steal the design from something (I could be wrong on that) and the actual design was implemented in the game later on. I do not picture Astaroth with blood on him in this game, because I'm fairly sure the stample "Copyright" is all over him. (Intresting about Witch Slayer and Pyromancer, since they are blatant rip-offs from Warhammer Witch Hunters and Bright Wizards, shame on you artists!).

If you want to post a general design, I'd say make something yourself. Rather then the typical youngboy wishful thinking "he is like tis and but cooler!!". Hell, if you even made up something in paint and it looked like crap I would give you some creds for having the balls and imaginative thinking. Onfortunately, in this case. I cannot give you any. :-)

It was FAR from an attempt to steal that model. Like i said... it is a visual aid to help depict what The Sadist should look like...
In what way does that degrade the look I'm after?

Hell that picture isn't even the exact details I was after but it gives the general idea of what the hero should look like... not the EXACT look.

You can be a douche and t-down because I'm not a professional artist nor going to waste my time on an MS paint that would barely get the idea across.
That defective way of thinking is your problem, not mine. Last I checked proper feedback is more than "Oh you used an image you didn't draw from scratch; bad hero, t-down".

ps: There's a difference between a valid opinion and pointless flaming/griefing... You picked by far the most trivial 'flaw' in this suggestion and are now chewing it to death.

T0x
01-24-2010, 05:37 PM
Buuuuuuuuuump

T0x
01-25-2010, 01:33 PM
And another one.

ma5
01-25-2010, 10:40 PM
Concept fails horribly.. resulting in a confused over-complicated mixed hero that isn't good at any one particular thing.

T0x
01-25-2010, 10:50 PM
Concept fails horribly.. resulting in a confused over-complicated mixed hero that isn't good at any one particular thing.
Care to elaborate a bit better?

The concept is that the hero loves taking pain and also inflicting it in horribly brutal ways. I'd say the skills capture this pretty well wouldn't you?
Skill 1 = He loves pain so much it makes him want to live longer just to experience more pain.

Skill 2 = Brutal utilization of his favored weapons.

Skill 3 = A lunge attack with so much rage and power behind it it even throws The Sadist off.

Skill 4 = Fetish for death + more brutal utilization of his weapons rather than ninja/warrior style combat.

He is good at taking pain and dishing it out. That is his role. Tank as f**k and brutal to the core.

Twilight33
01-26-2010, 01:33 AM
Concept fails horribly.. resulting in a confused over-complicated mixed hero that isn't good at any one particular thing.
i think he is refering to hero roles IE ganker, carry, disabler, etc.

T0x
01-26-2010, 03:08 AM
i think he is refering to hero roles IE ganker, carry, disabler, etc.

Care to elaborate a bit better?

The concept is that the hero loves taking pain and also inflicting it in horribly brutal ways. I'd say the skills capture this pretty well wouldn't you?
Skill 1 = He loves pain so much it makes him want to live longer just to experience more pain.

Skill 2 = Brutal utilization of his favored weapons.

Skill 3 = A lunge attack with so much rage and power behind it it even throws The Sadist off.

Skill 4 = Fetish for death + more brutal utilization of his weapons rather than ninja/warrior style combat.

He is good at taking pain and dishing it out. That is his role. Tank as f**k and brutal to the core.

Note the bolded text.