Crushing Defender (STR equivalent to Iron Shield)

[A`nub`is]

http://i35.tinypic.com/30l17ia.jpg Iron Buckler (250)
http://i38.tinypic.com/314p3b5.jpg Crushing Claws (150)
http://i38.tinypic.com/314p3b5.jpg Crushing Claws (150)
=

http://i49.tinypic.com/14c8zs4_th.jpg Crushing Defender (550)


6 Strength
Gives a 60% chance to block 20 attack damage (only 10 dmg is blocked for ranged heroes).



Shield Bash (Active Ability):
For 3 seconds, the next attack against you is blocked and the attacker stunned for 1s.
Mana Cost: 25 | Cooldown: 30s


Notes:
- It blocks ONE attack. NOT every attack in 3s, only the first one.
- Shield Bash may also trigger on creep attacks, so use with care.
- Mana cost prevents this to be used on Booboo (unless you buy him also a Pickled Brain ;)).
- Only triggers if an attack actually hits (concerning evasion, uphill misses or "TOO BAD" misses due to being out of range).
- Only triggers if attacked directly (not via splash or glaive bounce) and works on melee and ranged attacks.
- The Bash is of physical nature, therefore it helps (well, gives you 1 sec longer to live) against some crazy magic
immune Rambos like Predator or Warbeast.

Good item on the following heroes:
Every hero, that can spare the item slot and wants protection against creep attacks.
Personally I'd get it on most STR/INT heroes instead of a fortified bracelet.
AGI heroes have Iron Shield as a more offesive alternative.

Make sure to also check out my other suggestion that completes this "set of items" since it is an INT version: the Magic Mirror (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=66275)

http://i47.tinypic.com/b51o3n.jpg

.

[Blizzinam]

Seems like a fine idea to me.

[Xozzen]

for the mirror, it would maybe make it 70% and 20 damage, because the dmg block shouldn't be lowered

[TheDeadguy25]

550 for a stun item that, within skilled hands, will be super overpowered. I'd say a reduction in auto attack damage from the next attacker or something. Not a stun

[SLASHER`]

i like the idea, but I agree that it's pretty cheap for a stun item. maybe it would be good to make the stun a slow and make an upgradable version give a stun. idk. just a thought.

[HahaYouDied]

I don't really like the STR shield, imagine your being chased and you activate it just before the guy hits you and you get away, doesn't take much of a brain to do it and it basically takes him off your tail for only 550 gold.

I think its a bit too much

[A`nub`is]

I don't think a 1 sec stun against a non magic attack every 30 seconds will not make you escape that easily. And even if, it still might be turned down to 0.5 seconds for example. You know the famous sentence: Vote on concept, not numbers.

Ne~?

[OhBob]

Too strong. This would rape late game (way more than iron buckler.)

[Alystair]

Yeah, I can see this being a dirt cheap escape route item, I'll agree with SimAnt that it should be a slow and not a full on stun, or perhaps maybe even drop that entirely and just make it so it can block full dmg every X seconds, to limit it's late game use... Neat concept so I'll withhold my vote for now.

[Thysios]

I don't think a 1 sec stun against a non magic attack every 30 seconds will not make you escape that easily. And even if, it still might be turned down to 0.5 seconds for example. You know the famous sentence: Vote on concept, not numbers.

Ne~?

Wait people actually vote on concept?!?! when did this happen

[HahaYouDied]

Yeah so I'm saying the concept of easily wacking someone off your tail for 550 is not my ideal concept and i consider it to be a bit too cheap.

Maybe it shouldnt be a counterpart to the Iron Shield.

Buts its not my idea so..

[N3uRosiS]

I really like this! the str shield would be op, but if nerfed to the level of the other two this would be a great addition to the game. Thumbs up!

[KingMoscow]

Yeah the stun is FAR too powerful for 550g. Probably turn it into a disarm.

[CaptainHero1]

I love it! It's like ShieldBash on Monks in GW :) I love destroying Sin combos with it!

Anyway, it should also only proc on attack-SKILLS not Autoattacks to make it balanced for the price.

[Kalk5]

nice early item and still usefull in mid and late with stun gj

[A`nub`is]

If it really turns out imba, the mana cost / cooldown / stun duration / etc can just be adjusted =)

[ARCHAON]

am i the only one who think its just OP with an item to 550 that does something other than blocking a little damage? look at iron shield, it gives +6 agi, a minor block, which is have less chance when attacked by creeps...
compared to your suggestion which not only gives +6 str, a minor block, but ALSO a stun! thats just way too OP, also the iron shield have no bonuses other than the stats from what items was used for it!

generally, NO, way too powerfull! remove the activate ability and just make it a str version of iron shield, not something completely different

[Zarent]

Moving this to popular suggestions.

[volcan33]

str shield need tweaks i think... anyway the concept to make one specific shield is nice, so t-up

[Snikmorder]

i voted yes for the concept, but i think the numbers need tweaking

[sasimi]

I like the idea, but i agree with most of the post's. The stun in competitive games would absolutely dominate. Giving heros with out a stun the ability to stop ports or interupt skills. Putting this on arachna will prevent them being able to port away.

[A`nub`is]

I like the idea, but i agree with most of the post's. The stun in competitive games would absolutely dominate. Giving heros with out a stun the ability to stop ports or interupt skills. Putting this on arachna will prevent them being able to port away.

How are you gonna stun someone with this, that doesn't attack you? You don't.

[Hanza]

Great idea!

[SteveGarbage]

Shield that can stun, I see great use for that. The numbers would definitely need some tweaking though, I think.

Let's face it, this item would completely put the Iron Shield out of business. There would be no reason NOT to get this item on any hero all the time unless you really, really want that measley six AGI (compared to the extra HP though from 6 STR, why would you?). Forget that second Fortified Bracer too, because this has far more utility as an HP booster also with a sweet ability.

I know I would use it. I know a majority of people would use. But why does it still feel wrong to me? As if chasing isn't hard enough some times, adding this too just seems to make it even worse.

I'm not going to vote yay or nay because while part of me says it's useful and would get use, the other half of me says that I don't want to have to deal with it every game.

[nikoPSK]

I like the idea of different attribute blocks, especially the int one.

[ImWhite]

I think the stun is a bit much, especially since the stun allows it to greatly outlast its agi-counterpart into late game.

Perhaps a "Daze" (20%-ish slow) effect could be just as powerful early game, and not too powerful late game, like a stun could be.

Could also just change it to a "knock down+daze" and add a mini-stun with a slow effect.


Voted yes. I like the idea of a str and int counterpart to the iron shield. Some tweaking should be done to put them all on level playing field though.

[SteveGarbage]

The solution could be as simple as, instead of a different secondary effect - how about just making the Iron Shield attribute switchable like the Steamboots? Wouldn't that solve the balance problems of deciding whether or not the stun is too much or too little?

If the purpose of the item is to cater to stats, the solution is to just make the Iron Shield able to have STR or AGI stat boost through switching (like Steamboots) or through build, while keeping the same effect.

If the purpose of this item is to introduce a new item that has an active defensive stun, then it's basically a whole new item and the concept of keeping it akin to the Iron Shield is moot. An item with that ability is not on the same tier as the lowly Iron Shield and therefore should have a different build and higher cost because the stun shield is infinitely more useful throughout the game.

So I guess the question to pose to A`nub`is is that. Instead of us arguing the merits back and for of a STR Iron Shield with a stun, I guess you might get to the core of what you really want. STR or INT Iron Shields or a items with active stun or damage reflection? Because either option is more powerful and useful than the Iron Shield and if that's the case, you should hit the drawing board and rethink the recipe a bit to reflect those abilities.

[docterj208]

I have a problem with items which stun and cost less than 600 gold....

[Kaesetorte]

I know that one might ask himself:
"Why is there a AGI version for that shield but not a STR or INT one?"

About the Crushing Defender: I believe that if there was a 6 STR item with a block chance EVERYONE would get it instead of a bracer just because its 6 STR and adds awesome survivability.
I can see the new itembuild for all supportheroes with this item implemented:

Instead of 2 Bracers they would now get 1 Crushing Defender and 1 Powersupply.
This does not even consider the fact that there can be a STUN applied on use.

In case of Magic Mirror I can see a lot of tanky heroes (Maybe Legionaire because he desperatly needs INT and can use the block) using the item or even some AGIcarries who need some survivability and can use the + 15 dmg on attack more then +6 attackdamage.
Not to mention that INTcarries would profit even more from this item.


As you can see from the stated above I like the idea of the Magic Mirror (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=66275) (YES), but i consider the Crushing Defender (NO) too strong and can see it beeing overused to some extend.
Since this vote is about the Crushing Defender i voted NO.

[A`nub`is]

I know that one might ask himself:
"Why is there a AGI version for that shield but not a STR or INT one?"

About the Crushing Defender: I believe that if there was a 6 STR item with a block chance EVERYONE would get it instead of a bracer just because its 6 STR and adds awesome survivability.



Funny Story: If you search (through forum search) you may find an earlier version of the strength shield that only used one claw and only gave +3 strength and it was slammed down by the people b/c it didn't use 2 claws/+6 str.

I agree that the strength version currently seems stronger than the other versions, especially Iron Shield.
I like the proposal of someone who said it should stun but slow for 2 seconds or so (while the "Strength" actually doesn't come from the stun but from the buildup including the +6 str).

Here's the first version:

http://i35.tinypic.com/30l17ia.jpg Iron Buckler (250)
http://i35.tinypic.com/30l17ia.jpg Iron Buckler (250)
http://i38.tinypic.com/314p3b5.jpg Crushing Claws (150)
=
http://monte.d2nsa.de//HoN/Suggestions/Items/Crushing_Shield.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/14c8zs4_th.jpg Crushing Shield (650)


3 Strength
Gives a 80% chance to block 20 attack damage (only 10 dmg is blocked for ranged heroes).



Shield Bash (Active Ability):
For 3 seconds, the next attack against you is blocked and the attacker stunned for 1s.
Mana Cost: 25 | Cooldown: 30s

More balanced imho... but people hated this version^^

[albanoid]

i think this idea is great gj keep it up !

[PhilJFry]

I like the concept, but it needs to be a more expensive item. Escape stun for 550? I'd buy that on almost every hero.

[Thisisdota]

horrible idea, i have no idea how it got this far---------------instead of different 1s just make it take 3 sticks or a stick and a circlet or 2 circlets but buff it or something like that

[DooPY]

Way too cheap for the bonuses it gives. Give it a recipe cost or remove the stun.

[KSlidz]

ok so the idea of stunning someone out right is too op but how about pushing them back 250 units if they are melee and a 1s 60% slow and disarm

[GauntElakor]

It is to powerfull, but KSlidz does have an idea, maybe a 1 sec disarm would be better. The disarm also sticks with the theme of the shield, greatly helping the hero with relevant defense , but it does not stop the attacker from using magic.

[SeBa]

Horrible idea, stun for 550g??? I mean compare this item to it's existing counterpart iron shield, which is nothing as close to as powerful as an actual stun. I would not mind seeing a str and int version of iron shield but they should do the exact same thing minus the fact that they are +6 str or in instead.

I mean seriously you're about to get ganked by warbeast or sw or something, you pop the shield, he gets stunned and your run away. All for 550g, seriously... bad idea for an item :D.

[BiggDogg]

I have always believed that there should be a str and intel shields. But I think the items need balancing.

[SmashFiles]

Here's the thing, iron shield doesn't need a str equivalent. Iron shield is the agi equivalent of Helm. Iron shield doesn't need 3 different types of it.

[BlindDr]

I think you should change the 1s stun.

Perhaps make it similar to Rampage's ult which would make more sense of the name "Shield Bash"

**Next attack on a unit will trigger a push of some distance**

Not quite a stun, forces hero with item to actually do something not just get a free stun.

[Schyler]

Remake the strength shield to disarm for 1.2 seconds rather than stun and increase its mana cost to 40.

[BadGuy13]

I think the whole concept is creative and has the possibility to change the way a lot of heroes can be played.....it will end up being an op item because str heroes seem to be designed to be built this way anyway, I can just see every lego, raxus, and arma carrying one around, FORGET IT if they have a stun! Might as well turn every match after this item is made into a wrestling match....

[LightofdaY]

1 second is way too long. I'd say .5 is enough. Imagine a team battle. with 5 people with that shield.. that's 5 seconds of stun before any spells are cast! I guess u don't remember that time when. 2-3 heroes in every game made Nomes.

[HonchoBob]

Adding a +6 str and int version of the shield is probably enough.

[PrestonLee]

stun is way too strong; voted no.

if there was a "crushing defender," then even without the active almost every hero that picks up iron shield would pick it up by default instead as it gives +6 strength and the block.. the block would have to stay at 60% imo to make iron shield stand as a viable pickup and not get completely overshadowed, as 80% is just a 'slightly less reliable' 100%.

the fact is +6 strength AND block for 550 gold on one inventory slot is too cost effective; it's basically a bracer in terms of strength but it has block (well yeah it doesn't give +3agi/int like a bracer would, but still it's not taking up the extra space an iron buckler would, and people tend to stack emergency bracers for the health survivability, not the other stats).

i'm not actually completely against it, but i agree with above, just adding the +6 str and int version without giving them any actives is enough, MAYBE give the int one some small bonus or something a small +2 magic armor or mana regen or something to make up for ints uselessness when not picked up by an int/mana-dependant hero.

just keep in mind, you're talking about REALLY cheap cost-effective blocking items here, they don't need (and shouldn't have) big perks on them to make them 'cool'

my 2 cents