6.66 Thoughts

[Kild]

http://www.playdota.com/forums/151974/6-66-changelog/



http://www.playdota.com/img/changelogs/categories/heroes.jpg
:bat: Batrider (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/batrider)
- Flaming Lasso cooldown decreased from 130/90/50 to 90/70/50

:beast: Beastmaster (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/beastmaster)
- Wild Axes now properly hits invisible units

:bh: Bounty Hunter (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/bounty-hunter)
- Jinada cooldown improved from 22/17/12/7 to 21/16/11/6

:cw: Clockwerk (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/clockwerk-goblin)
- Rocket Flare cooldown decreased from 30/25/20/15 to 20/18/16/14

:dirge: Dirge (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/undying)
- Added Aghanim's Scepter for Undying.
Regular Plague Aura
- Plague Aura amplifies up to 20% / 25% / 30% max and heals for 6% of heroes and 2% of creeps
Scepter Upgraded Plague Aura
- Plague Aura amplifies up to 25% / 30% / 35% and heals for 10% of heroes and 3% of creeps

:doom: Doom Bringer (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/doom-bringer)
- Reworked and rebalanced most of his abilities
Old Devour:
===========
Creeps: Up to level 1/2/4/6
Bonus Gold: 10/20/30/40
cd: 30/25/20/15
manacost: 50/45/40/35

New Devour:
===========
Creeps: Up to level 2/4/5/6
Bonus Gold: 40/60/80/100
cd: 60/55/50/45
manacost: 60

Gains the abilities of the target neutral creep has until you devour another creep with abilities to replace it

Old Scorched Earth:
====================
Large aoe castable.

MS Bonus: 10/15/20/30%
AS Bonus: 10/15/20/30%
Deals: 1/2/3/4 dps
Heals: 1/2/3/4 dps

Duration: 20
CD: 10
Manacost: 60
Cast Range: 800
AOE: 700

New Scorched Earth:
====================
Temporary effect around you. Earth is scorched wherever you are walking.

MS Bonus: 20%
Damage: 15/20/25/30
Heals: 15/20/25/30

Duration: 8/10/12/14
Cooldown: 60/50/40/30
Manacost: 60
AOE: 600

Old Doom:
==========
Regular
-Duration: 12/14/16
-DPS: 40/60/80
-Cooldown: 160/130/100

Scepter
-Duration: 14/16/18
-DPS: 50/70/90
-Cooldown: 90/80/70


New Doom:
==========
Regular
-Duration: 14
-DPS: 30/50/70
-Cooldown: 110

Scepter
-Duration: 14
-DPS: 50/80/110
-Cooldown: 90/80/70


:es: Earthshaker (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/earthshaker)
- Echo Slam no longer counts corpses for damage Echo damage (They used to count them for partial damage)
- Aftershock AoE from 280 to 300
- Enchant Totem damage increased from 50/100/150/200 to 75/150/225/300
- Added Aghanim's Scepter to Earthshaker's Echo Slam (echo bounces twice for each hero it hits)
- Echo Slam's Echo damage increased from 35/45/65 to 40/55/70
- Echo Slam's unit search aoe increased by 75 (this is not the damage aoe, just the initial unit search aoe)
- Note: The main idea with most of these changes is to emphasis the timing aspect of the echo slam more. Some other buffs are done to compensate for the reduced power from the corpse count loss.


:enchant: Enchantress (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/enchantress)
- Movement speed increased from 295 to 305
- Enchant's slow effect increased from 10/20/30/40% to 20/30/40/50%
- Enchant's slow effect duration decreased from 7 to 5.5 seconds

:void: Faceless Void (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/faceless-void)
- Timewalk slow increased from 10/20/30/40% to 25/30/35/40%
- Timewalk cooldown rebalanced from 13 to 19/17/15/13


:voke: Invoker (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/invoker)
- Invoke cd from 30/25/12/5 cd to 22/17/12/5
- Invoke manacost from 20/50/80/110 to 20/40/60/80
- Alacrity bonus damage increased from 20-80 to 30-90
- Alacrity duration increased from 8 to 9
- Chaos Meteor damage improved:
Main damage from 40-130 to 55-145 every 0.5 seconds
Burn damage from 8-26 to 11-29 per second
- Cold Snap now applies an initial ministun on cast
- Forged Spirits Armor is now based on Exort and Range is now based on Quas
- Ghost Walk manacost reduced from 300 to 200
- Ghost Walk slow rescaled from 10-40% to 20-40%
- Ice Wall manacost increased from 125 to 175
- Ice Wall cooldown increased from 20 to 25
- Sun Strike damage rescaled from 75-450 to 100-475
- Tornado range increased from 700-3100 -> 800-3200
- Tornado duration increased from 0.6-2.2 -> 0.8-2.5
- Tornado damage increased from max of 375 to 400
- Quas per instance regen from 0.75 to 1

:jugg: Juggernat (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/juggernaut)
- Blade Fury cooldown reduced from 30 to 30/28/26/24

:aa: Kaldr (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/ancient-apparition)
- Cold Feet manacost increased from 90 to 90/100/110/120
- Ice Blast impact delay is a little slower now
- Ice Blast no longer pierces Shallow Grave
- Ice Blast debuff is now purgable

:ogre: Ogre Magi (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/ogre-magi)
- Fireblast Multicast upgraded cooldown improved from 15/12/9/6 to 12/10/8/6

:od: Obsidian Destroyer (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/obsidian-destroyer)
- Essence Aura no longer has a lower chance to trigger when autocasting Arcane Orb

:potm: Priestess of the Moon (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/priestess-of-the-moon)
- Moonlight Shadow manacost from 200/250/300 to a constant 175

:pug: Pugna (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/oblivion)
- Decrepify cast range increased from 550 to 550/600/650/700

:qop: Queen of Pain (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/queen-of-pain)
- Scream of Pain now effects Decrepified units

:sb: Spirit Breaker (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/spiritbreaker)
- Nether Strike now makes Spirit Breaker magic immune for the second that he is fading out during its cast
- Charge of Darkness decreased manacost from 120 to 75
- Charge of Darkness cast mechanic reworked
Charge of Darknessnow charges up in place for up to 4 seconds and then you move out at a speed relative to how long you charged it for. (Total movement bonus is the same as before, it just depends on chargeup time now instead of increasing slowly over time)

:murloc: Slark (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/murloc-nightcrawler)
- Pounce Leash now gets removed if the target blinks or teleports away
- Shadow Dance passive no longer works if Slark is Doomed

:ursa: Ursa Warrior (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/ursa-warrior)
- Undid previous cast animation change on Overpower
- Fixed a bug in the recent Overpower rewrite that prevented it from being removed by purge/euls

:visage: Visage (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/necrolic)
- Soul Assumption damage per charge decreased from 130 to 110
- Soul Assumption manacost from 100/120/140/160 to 100
- Soul Assumption cooldown from 7/6/5/4 to 4
- Familiars Bounty reduced from 150 to 100
- Familiars now magic reduction from 70/95/95% to 95% at all levels
- Familiars bonus damage attack count increased from 6 to 7
- Familiars now have a small (160) ranged attack instead of melee
- Gravekeeper's Cloak recharge time improved from 14/12/10/8 to 10/9/8/7

:lock: Warlock (http://www.playdota.com/heroes/warlock)
- Fatal Bonds damage increased from 3.75/7.5/11.25/15% to 15%
- Fatal Bonds link count reduced from 5 to 2/3/4/5



http://www.playdota.com/img/changelogs/categories/items.jpg
:agha: Aghanim's Scepter (http://www.playdota.com/items/aghanims-scepter)
- Added Undying and Earthshaker

:divine: Divine Rapier (http://www.playdota.com/items/divine-rapier)
- Can no longer be destroyed by attacking the item
- If a player other than the original owner of the Rapier picks it up, they cannot drop it

:forcestaff: Force Staff (http://www.playdota.com/items/force-staff)
- Double clicking force staff now acts as if you clicked on yourself

:mael::mjoll: Maelstrom (http://www.playdota.com/items/maelstrom) & Mjollnir (http://www.playdota.com/items/mjollnir)
- Increased max bounces from 3 to 4

:phaseboots: Phase Boots (http://www.playdota.com/items/phase-boots)
- Cooldown from 12 seconds to 10 seconds
- Duration from 6 seconds to 5 seconds
- Movement bonus from 10% to 12%

:tp: Scroll of Town Portal (http://www.playdota.com/items/scroll-of-town-portal)
- Double clicking on scrolls now automatically targets your fountain


http://www.playdota.com/img/changelogs/categories/gameplayandcosmetics.jpg


* Switch now only works as long as the items of the leaver remain intact. Once someone leaves, the inventory of that hero becomes locked. Players can use an -unlock command, but once that is done switch cannot be used on that hero anymore. Once this feature is used enough to be considered stable, switch will be usable by default (-so mode won't be required) with the restrictions described above. The gold that the leaver is carrying is also frozen until the hero is either unlocked or swapped.

* Added a new command, "-controloff"/"-controlon", to disable control help in the game (to prevent stuff like adding summoned units to your current selection: Invoker, Techies, Lanaya, etc)
* Added a new test command to toggle creeps spawn off and on -spawnoff/-spawnon
* Restored -mc, but with more detailed statistics to match up with the recently changed Multicast chance system
* To prevent some abuses with -unstuck, it no longer works if your taking damage during the first few seconds after you enter the command

* Doubled Satyr Trickerster manapool and purge manacost (primarily affects just stolen ability via Devour)
* Fixed the teleport effects sometimes being visually on an angle
* Fixed Nightcrawler status buff text format
* Fixed Tango visual buff being slightly inaccurate (this is just a cosmetic improvement/fix)

* Added a visual effect for allied players to indicate which creep you infesting
* Added a new sound set for Furion (91160 (http://www.playdota.com/forums/91160/soundset-furion/))
* Added a new sound set for Clockwerk
* Added a new visual effect for Spirit Lance
* Added new charge icon for Soul Assumption (137459 (http://www.playdota.com/forums/137459-page2/interface-soul-assumption/#post660251))
* Disabled visual charge indication if the cooldown for Soul Assumption is not ready
* Added a new overhead indictor for Soul Assumption (137459 (http://www.playdota.com/forums/137459/interface-soul-assumption))
* Added an visaul effect when Eclipse misses to help players keep track (109017 (http://www.playdota.com/forums/109017/animation-eclipse/))
* Phantom Assassin images now have the proper fade visual effect (114120 (http://www.playdota.com/forums/114120/visual-mortreds-illusions/))
* Improved Eyes In The Forest cast animation (95740 (http://www.playdota.com/forums/95740/visual-treant-protectors-casting-animation/))
* Added new visual effect for Flesh Golem (51874 (http://www.playdota.com/forums/51874-page2/animation-dirge-flesh-golem-plague-aura/))

* Game mode status, rune messages and a few other misc strings are now externalized properly to allow for more flexible translation choices
* Added replay parsing data for assists (Format: "Assist"+I2S(KillerId),DyingId)


http://www.playdota.com/img/changelogs/categories/bugs.jpg

* Fixed a few areas where you could get stuck in using TP scrolls
* Fixed Malefice not reliably working if the enemy is fogged
* Fixed Last Word from firing off on the precast for Ice Blast and Unstable Concoction
* Fixed Ice Blast indicator staying at edge of map until you release it
* Fixed Ice Blast debuff from overriding Time Lapse
* Fixed some Dark Pact bugs
* Fixed Essence Shift from piercing Shallow Grave
* Fixed Essence Shift sometimes not registering properly at high attack speeds
* Fixed Murloc sometimes not attacking the pounced target
* Fixed dispersion damage on creeps
* Fixed bugs with Charge of Darkness interaction with euls and ghost scepter
* Fixed some mac specific bugs

[Slayman]

I did not know that this was the official DoTa forum.


EDIT:

Good. mods moved it.

[LolMaliken]

off-topic?

[Dyloc]

Think people who care about DoTA are back that way <----

[Sacred123]

lol. i agree with ^^^

[Jewbaca]

jeez shaker with aganims. gonna kick asses o_o

[pakoito]

He got nerfed a bit.


Doombringer...once it's in game there's no way to get rid of it ^^

[SausageEx]

No Demonic/Diabolic/Number of the Beast theme? wtf icefrog is on drugs.

[Kild]

Well he did change Luci.

[MavercK]

:phaseboots: Phase Boots (http://www.playdota.com/items/phase-boots)
- Cooldown from 12 seconds to 10 seconds
- Duration from 6 seconds to 5 seconds
- Movement bonus from 10% to 12%

this was a hon change?
nice to see dota and hon exchanges with each other

[Nuclear]

surely the doombringer thing is abusable? someone other than who'd normally need it buys it, dies to roshan, carry picks it up...undroppable doombringer

[LightRain]

@slayman: people often comb through dota changelogs for changes that would improve hon

@changelog: yes please pharaoh buff

chronos change to make him a better ganker with one level of leap?

[ElementUser]

- Blade Fury cooldown reduced from 30 to 30/28/26/24

So, who's copying who?

[Jewbaca]

So, who's copying who?

ye cause he can now attack while whirling... no, wait

and btw, how can u write such a bullshit phrase. i dont know what u are (moderator => working for s2? if so i cant believe ur declaration) but the whole ****ing game is a copy of dota and even if icefrog would change something because of hon its not copying since its his game.

@phaseboots the speed boost is the same as in hon but the cd /duration is actually a backwards change. also the phasing still cancels after using a skill.

[Isin]

The PotM change made me happy.

Isin alerts the HoN devs.

[Colin_tank]

I like the changes to behemoth, Enchant Totem needs to be buffed from 200%. It's too weak, even at higher levels.

[evK]

I need my Invoker/BeastMaster/Huskar fix ;(

[RetardDrool]

who plays dota still...

[CoCo4]

So, who's copying who?

Actually this was a change in DotA beta well before HoN did it. There were some people leaking 6.66 changes on IRC. Someone either suggested it to the HoN devs and they copied it, or it was a coincidence.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page140/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/#post695170

[Sai]

doom change is amazing

need doom

[djudjud14]

So, who's copying who?

i knew someone is gonna bring that up..
but yeah.. the change was made during the beta map, before S2 made the exact same change. ( same issue with potm's starfall )

anyway..
love the changes on 6.66.
the new doom looks amazing.. surely he can be use more often in competitive games now.

T-up !!

[Pho3n1x]

Actually this was a change in DotA beta well before HoN did it. There were some people leaking 6.66 changes on IRC. Someone either suggested it to the HoN devs and they copied it, or it was a coincidence.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page140/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/#post695170

My guess would be coincidence tbh. Dota and a dota clone are always going to make similar changes

[Idejder]

Actually this was a change in DotA beta well before HoN did it. There were some people leaking 6.66 changes on IRC. Someone either suggested it to the HoN devs and they copied it, or it was a coincidence.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page140/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/#post695170
Actually not true, the changes were part of a collaborative discussion between a lot of high end players and ourselves. Thanks for the rumor mongering though.

If you are going to do that sort of thing, at least go back to Playdota to do it. No reason to sink to that level here if you are that mad we have the same line of thinking and are actually good at balancing/making changes.

EDIT: Funny part is if you read the next dozen posts of that thread, Nome shuts you down pretty hard.

[JOSHPFANBOY]

Actually not true, the changes were part of a collaborative discussion between a lot of high end players and ourselves. Thanks for the rumor mongering though.

If you are going to do that sort of thing, at least go back to Playdota to do it. No reason to sink to that level here if you are that mad we have the same line of thinking and are actually good at balancing/making changes.

EDIT: Funny part is if you read the next dozen posts of that thread, Nome shuts you down pretty hard.
:engi:

[Idejder]

Engineer approves.

[JOSHPFANBOY]

guessing nome is venom?

edit*** nvm he is just nome ;_;

he was just so far back

[Idejder]

No, Nome is Nome

[Hash]

free nome

[Flat_Head]

lol at the new doom, looks really fun. Not only can he get purge, stomps (and that gigantic damage aura) but he can turn on a 20% ms boost? that's absurd speed

yeah he can basically grab a centaur and run up from behind at 20% ms boost. boom, instant slardar.

He takes an alpha wolf and goes with lycan and wrecks towers in three seconds.

Maybe I should reinstall wc3.

[HaroldBishop]

" Force Staff (http://www.playdota.com/items/force-staff)
- Double clicking force staff now acts as if you clicked on yourself"
Need this in HoN

[Drasha]

this is my favorite part
http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page141/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/#post699434

[kevs926]

the divine rapier change is not what u think.
3 things can drop the DR
-owner
-other hero
-DR itself (it drops self if owner died)
the 2nd one is now disabled

[kevs926]

version 666 is about lucifer

[Zyzzx]

Actually this was a change in DotA beta well before HoN did it. There were some people leaking 6.66 changes on IRC. Someone either suggested it to the HoN devs and they copied it, or it was a coincidence.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page140/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/#post695170


"Just for the record," unless you happened to be involved in the development processes for both HoN and DotA, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm guessing you realized your mistake about the time Nome was asking if he should adjust the position of your shoe enema. I'm also betting that's why you ducked tail and haven't popped back up in the thread on your forums, and instead tried to glide in under the radar over here.

Oops.

[ElementUser]

Actually this was a change in DotA beta well before HoN did it. There were some people leaking 6.66 changes on IRC. Someone either suggested it to the HoN devs and they copied it, or it was a coincidence.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page140/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/#post695170

Not true for the Swiftblade thing.

There was a topic discussed in another forum, Idejder suggested 30/29/28/27 on numbers at first. I personally suggested 30/28/26/24 myself and they agreed on that because 30/27/24/21 is too much cooldown reduction. So it IS a coincidence for Blade Fury/Blade Frenzy.

Unless you're implying I'm a beta tester for DotA? I'm not btw, not enough time to do that (let alone play HoN)

[Nome]

Actually this was a change in DotA beta well before HoN did it. There were some people leaking 6.66 changes on IRC. Someone either suggested it to the HoN devs and they copied it, or it was a coincidence.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page140/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/#post695170

This is like a game of he-said/she-said, except it's like 3X she-said and then you overheard it while in a bathroom stall next to someone on his cell.

In other words, you really, really should not talk with such conviction unless you know what you're talking about--and you don't.

[joshfiles]

id like to point out the changes to doombringer, not necessarily that they changed him (new devour = awesome), but that there is a hero named DOOMBRINGER.

hons needs more doom? yes plz.

[SausageEx]

there is an item called doombringer.

[joshfiles]

thats messed up

[knallfrosch]

Actually this was a change in DotA beta well before HoN did it. There were some people leaking 6.66 changes on IRC. Someone either suggested it to the HoN devs and they copied it, or it was a coincidence.

Reading comprehension ftw!

I always wondered, do you need reading comprehension to moderate a forum?
Or to develop a game?

The answer lies within this thread, just look for colored names posting here.
edit: more flaming

[King_Fear]

Reading comprehension ftw!

I always wondered, do you need reading comprehension to moderate a forum?
Or to develop a game?

The answer lies within this thread, just look for colored names posting here.
edit: more flaming

If you read his post(s) on PD, his tone is far less conciliatory, as he's one step away from bold-facedly accusing S2 of stealing DotA's beta changes. Idea theft is a pretty hefty allegation, even in this case, and you can't blame either side for getting slightly heated about it.

[Nems]

There are enough coincidences to start pointing fingers because of the repetitive instances, I initially thought the same thing as CoCo with the changes made at the same time, but until proof of these changes is shown you will not stop hearing about this.

The whole discussion of a beta tester for Icefrog leaking info is interesting because how easy would it be to test for both games and suggest to one dev team the thoughts of the other. Bashing Coco with walls of text and obvious descriptions of why changes should be made doesn't prove anything at all.

Gotta love this high school drama, I am looking forward to more conspiracy theories.
Ask questions, Get answers!

NiG

[EternityDre]

WTB the pharoah, behemoth, and valk changes.

[knallfrosch]

Idea theft is a pretty hefty allegation, even in this case, and you can't blame either side for getting slightly heated about it.
Idea theft in this case would be ... they copied the whole game and most changes since they had even a slight idea of what HoN should look like.

You cannot blame him for thinking they copied some changes again.
There are many DotA fanboys who think S2 could never balance their game.

I don't think he changed his opinion, but that's just me.



And lol @ earthshaker needs even more skill.

[LordThanatos]

Did anybody notice this

The current version of DotA is 6.66 ... that is 666 ... THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST

And it was released on the first 13 th *13th of January 2010 .... Janyary 2010 -01 2010 -> 0 + 1+ 2 +0 + 10 = 13 OHOHO

So many bad omens....so many evil sings AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Beware ... beware

[djudjud14]

As I said in the other thread in which Elementuser drastically misunderstood(and then it was mysteriously locked hmmm), OMFG they nerfed Doom FU Icefrog.

I don't see what the need to nerf Doom was.

I don't really care about the other changes.



...

nice. u just ignored the other changes (buffs) to his skills.

[King_Fear]

Idea theft in this case would be ... they copied the whole game and most changes since they had even a slight idea of what HoN should look like.


Ahh, but who does the original idea belong to now? The entire history of DotA (and AoS) is a series of adaptions and ports. S2 has simply taken it towards a more commercial direction and they're not even the first. Or the last, if the rumors are to be believed.


You cannot blame him for thinking they copied some changes again.Good, we've agreed that you can't blame anyone involved. Except the hypothetical DotA beta leaker, which I'm disinclined to believe in because all of the matching suggestions seem to be coming from different sources.



There are many DotA fanboys who think S2 could never balance their game. Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/284-Silent-Hill-Homecoming) makes an interesting comment about fans in his Silent Hill: Homecoming review. ;)

---

EDIT: Regardless, I don't necessarily represent the views of S2 on the matter, I'm just a forum moderator, so take me as you find me.

[Atrim3ntus]

New Devour:
===========
Creeps: Up to level 2/4/5/6
Bonus Gold: 40/60/80/100
cd: 60/55/50/45
manacost: 60

Gains the abilities of the target neutral creep has until you devour another creep with abilities to replace it

Echo Slam's Echo damage increased from 35/45/65 to 40/55/70
- Echo Slam's unit search aoe increased by 75 (this is not the damage aoe, just the initial unit search aoe)
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Earthshaker's Echo Slam (echo bounces twice for each hero it hits)He calls that Balance? And about time he lowered Batrider's Ult CD, took him what? a year?

...I want batrider :(


I am looking forward to more conspiracy theories.The Bilderberg Group and their depopulation plan is the real end of the world.

There's a good one for you

[Lo_Pan]

If you read his post(s) on PD, his tone is far less conciliatory, as he's one step away from bold-facedly accusing S2 of stealing DotA's beta changes. Idea theft is a pretty hefty allegation, even in this case, and you can't blame either side for getting slightly heated about it.

First...we are on a forum where you can not say what feeling did the replier felt because we can not see or feel. It is a mistake to assume things even if we speak to the person face to face and even worst in a forum.

Second...He is not accusing S2 of stealing DotA's changes; we can not say what he was trying to do. We can say that S2 copied change logs before if I'm not mistaken. If we look far back...S2 had already taken changes from other change logs in DotA and applied it to HoN. I remember reading on a DotA forum where the general consensus was that IceFrog was getting upset about it because he kind of considered his changelogs his intellectual property.

The developers who replied to this thread got heated about the whole debate but in my opinion whatever argument there was it is disqualified by the fact that HoN is a clone of DotA. No need to argue about it!

What would be constructive is for the developers to answer numerous threads posted by different users that get erased or locked. They are usually negative feed back. It would be awesome if the developers would leave their feed back more often in those threads and close it positively. The eagerness to debate whether HoN copy this from DotA or that is pointless. They could use that eagerness to form answers for the real questions that abound in the forums. There are those who say that most of those threads are issues that S2 is already aware about them. It is the moderator's job to close a thread and remind or inform that new comer who posted the thread the steps that S2 will take in order to solve the issue. It is of no good when the moderator closes a thread without any reason.

Edit: Nome shows that the replier is accusing S2 of stealing DotA's changes. What difference does it make? If we are to speak in those terms then...can a copier of change logs all of the sudden stop copying change logs? DotA is HoN stable platform...why are we arguing then? the truth is that HoN will need DotA's change log until their developers start getting a feel of balancing...which Icefrog has tons of experience and no offense...since I'm a beta tester of HoN i must say that S2 balancing is far behind from Icefrog's polishing acts! To make and copy DotA was probably easy and Icefrog was a smart guy not opposing it since he knew he had no grounds to argue about it. But what he knew better was that the true core of making the game playable was balancing it correctly or even coming close to the form correctness. This he knows and knew that will either make or break HoN. This he knows that if you copy it...players will know it and the better for Icefrog. Make no doubt that Icefrog knows that this will buy him and his Valve team time to remake his own DotA and since he is already king at balancing...the community will not have much issues with it and flock to him like the second coming of Christ. Icefrog is no fool, let me tell you. He practices Sun Tzu very well and I'm at awe at how well his plays it. I hope my reply was of use to them developers and S2. I wish to fufill my role of Beta tester in every way possible!

Thanks

I have some possible solutions on how to help S2 become better and even break DotA. But I don't think is worth mentioning it! and so far S2 has been doing a not so smart job on dealing with the Icefrog shadow phenomena!

[Nome]

Reading comprehension ftw!

I always wondered, do you need reading comprehension to moderate a forum?
Or to develop a game?

The answer lies within this thread, just look for colored names posting here.
edit: more flaming

Posts from the same guy:


Just for the record, the following changes were stolen from the DotA 6.66 beta 1 version that Ice posted in the private beta forums a couple of weeks ago:


Bladefury 30 -> 30/28/26/24
Fatal Bonds 15% constant, 2/3/4/5 links
Phase Boots movement bonus

Would be nice if DotA beta changes weren't leaked and copied by HoN. The same thing happened on a couple changes during 6.65 beta. We know you don't mean harm, but it is very insulting to us beta testers and to IceFrog who is quite upset about the leak. Whoever is leaking the private dota beta info to HoN devs, please stop.


Yea, if they were so logical, why weren't they done before? Why were they done exactly the same right after IceFrog did it in beta? More than a coincidence, there is a leaker. Same exact thing happened right after IceFrog posted a beta with potm starfall fix, it was copied immediately after. It not just a coincidence when heroes like potm or jugg that haven't been changed in ages, then get a beta change and instant copied. There is a leaker spreading the logs.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/3944-page140/heroes-newerth-inspired-dota-again/

I replied in that thread detailing exactly how the HoN team came to make the coincidental decisions. CoCo has yet to reply to them--instead, he came here to make the same accusations.

The burden of proof is with the accuser.

[King_Fear]

First...we are on a forum where you can not say what feeling did the replier felt because we can not see or feel. It is a mistake to assume things even if we speak to the person face to face and even worst in a forum.

...

The developers who replied to this thread got heated about the whole debate but in my opinion whatever argument there was it is disqualified by the fact that HoN is a clone of DotA. No need to argue about it!Isn't this a bit of a contradiction? Unless your point is that I can't tell when someone is being accusive but you can... :confused:

Anyway, I disagree with this point and I'd love to prove how well written text can convey emotion by littering a few expletives here and there but such behaviour is not encouraged by the forum administration. :p

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Regardless, the original issue wasn't that HoN is based on DotA, it was CoCo accusing HoN of somehow acquiring and using confidential information from the DotA beta testing procedure.

S2 has strained numerous times that they're not going to copy balance changes just because DotA makes them, in fact sometimes they seem to go out of their way to find an alternative. But because HoN is based on DotA, naturally the problems of DotA (such as some heroes being imbalanced or extremely weak) have carried over to HoN and they need to be fixed here as well (which S2 is doing with a stunning alacrity).

It's inevitable that the same things will end up getting changed since the developers of both games know what's wrong with them. And because they end up fixing the same things with no inside knowledge of each other, it's natural they can end up with the same solution.

[Lo_Pan]

Isn't this a bit of a contradiction? Unless your point is that I can't tell when someone is being accusive but you can... :confused:

Anyway, I disagree with this point and I'd love to prove how well written text can convey emotion by littering a few expletives here and there but such behaviour is not encouraged by the forum administration. :p

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Regardless, the original issue wasn't that HoN is based on DotA, it was CoCo accusing HoN of somehow acquiring and using confidential information from the DotA beta testing procedure.

S2 has strained numerous times that they're not going to copy balance changes just because DotA makes them, in fact sometimes they seem to go out of their way to find an alternative. But because HoN is based on DotA, naturally the problems of DotA (such as some heroes being imbalanced or extremely weak) have carried over to HoN and they need to be fixed here as well (which S2 is doing with a stunning alacrity).

It's inevitable that the same things will end up getting changed since the developers of both games know what's wrong with them. And because they end up fixing the same things with no inside knowledge of each other, it's natural they can end up with the same solution.

Would you like me to rephrase that sentence for you then? since you are saying that I'm contradicting myself...I could not find a better phrase than to put it that way. I could rephrase it: "The developers who replied to this thread were asses about the whole debate". I made an assumption with a biased towards the developers. I didn't want to put it this way. I believe you can make assumption but with a positive twist to it...negative assumptions is what hurts a debate. That is what I did. The developers lost their cool and were asses in replying to the starter of this whole controversy...when they are suppose to be above that. I decided to make it positive and put it as heated.

I do get your point. Isn't this whole debate pointless when the developers have already copied previous change logs? it is inconsistency to argue that "we did not copy this or that...it was chance"...the argument is destroyed by just the fact of the previous change logs. There is no point in this argument really. Is like if you were denying who your real father was when he raised you?