Demoralizing Trinket

[NovaX811]

(Vote based on concept, not on numbers.)


http://i38.tinypic.com/qq4dnl.jpg
Abyssal Skull
[2050g]
+
http://i33.tinypic.com/2ms27hz.jpg
Chainmail
[550g]
+
http://i37.tinypic.com/ic8ls6.jpg
Punchdagger
[500g]
+
http://i38.tinypic.com/ofvxad.jpg
Recipe
[300g]
=

http://www.creativedesignsvw.com/store/images/A1/29/A12966B-md-b.jpg
Demoralizing Trinket
[3400g]

Stats:
17% Lifesteal Aura (+2%)
+18% Base Damage Aura (+3%)
+8 Armor Aura (+3)
+0.80 Mana Regen Aura (+0)
-13% Enemy Base Damage Aura (New!)


*Continues the change of Abyssal Skull in stripping regen to allow for Aura effects.
*Unique support effect - would encourage faster upgrading of Abyssal Skull


Changelog
*1/12/09
> Item Posted
> Recipe Change:
-1 Helm of the Victim
+1 Chainmail
+1 Recipe
> +2 More Armor to Aura
> +3% More Enemy Damage Reduction

[HbG1]

This item with Succubus smitten would do an hero like madman useles.
I like.

[Xozzen]

the concept of an upgraded abyssal like that is good, but (i know thats numbers), atm the additional effects are not worth 1500 gold.
I think you should add some more armor and increase the enemy aura

[Gowerly]

I'm worried that you actually get a better reduction from the helm than you get from the finished item. Yes, it's an aura when finished, but you're losing 4 armor and 3 health regen for it.

[NovaX811]

Hmm, I see what you mean.

I increased the Armor Aura a bit (trying not to make it too horribly strong) and increased the amount of -Damage% on the enemy aura.

Another idea I'm considering, would be to use Chainmail instead of the Helm, and then maybe a small recipe cost.

EDIT: Actually, going to change it to that, recalculate some costs, see how it adds up.

Replies:

I'm worried that you actually get a better reduction from the helm than you get from the finished item. Yes, it's an aura when finished, but you're losing 4 armor and 3 health regen for it.
Good point. You now lose 2 armor and 0 regen with the new recipe.


the concept of an upgraded abyssal like that is good, but (i know thats numbers), atm the additional effects are not worth 1500 gold.
I think you should add some more armor and increase the enemy aura
Interesting to consider. With the reworked recipe, the increase is now only 1350g, and the effects are slightly improved. Giving an Aura like this is touchy though, as you must consider, the item essentially counters itself. Also, Armor is a powerful effect to give away in an AoE.

[serrath]

Good anticarry item. It's like a daemonic breastplate for attack damage. Solid design and the numbers work. And this would (quite helpfully) make tanks using it a real target.

[Alondite2]

I feel like if you put those things together it is very unlikely that what comes out will look anything like a "trinket." More like a scary suit of armor thing.

[NovaX811]

Well obviously the name can be changed :P And yea, I feel like this combined with a Mock would really entice your opponents to take down the tank first, which would really help in their role during teamfights. It would also help so much into the endgame when carries get to "that point".

[WSLaFleur]

the concept of an upgraded abyssal like that is good, but (i know thats numbers), atm the additional effects are not worth 1500 gold.
I think you should add some more armor and increase the enemy aura

-13%?

[NovaX811]

-13%?

When he said that, it was only -10% if I remember correctly.

[bunnyhunter]

nice nice nice, make abyssal more useful, T-up

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

No no no no no no no! This is actually a good time to say that commenting on numbers is commenting on the concept (yes, it's actually true for once!)

You want a better abyssal skull which means you want it to have better numbers. Wtf, this is hax. It gives a better armor aura than a daemonic breastplate, and it's damage change is WAY too big.

100 dmg vs. 100 dmg
With this item,
118 dmg vs. 87 damage, they went from even to one have 31 more, that's just ridiculous. And in the scope of late game the change would be more likely in the 60's and 70's. Not to mention the ridiculous armor boost is making your team even harder to hit.

I know that abyssal skull wants to be a late game item, but it can't be. The whole point is that it gives a lot of really useful stuff early game. By making it late game, it's becoming too good for all of its bonuses.

It seems to me the only original idea here is to add a -13% damage for the other team, which is really unrealistic because an armor aura is effectively giving their team a -whatever % in damage (could be over 13% depending on the person affected).

Sorry, but abyssal skull should stay where it is, if you don't like it that's too bad.

[NovaX811]

So what you're saying is that the entire concept of a -Damage% aura is broken, which is an acceptable point of view.

However, I contest that the item is sound. My reasoning is this (relating each point back to one of your arguments):

1) Increasing the damage difference is the point of every DPS item in the game. Saying that it increases/decreases the damage too much is simply number balancing, which as always, can be changed at the drop of the hat for balance.

2) The armor boost is only defensively greater than Daemonic BP, and lacks the incredibly valuable offensive aspect that DBP does. DBP essentially puts a Shieldbreaker debuff on every enemy (and building) within radius, while still leaving them susceptible to more -armor for an actual Shieldbreaker or other gear. Abyssal's armor buff is already as strong as it, because the defense isn't the most valuable part of the item.

3) -% melee damage is a powerful effect, but not uncounterable at all. Any time your opponent buys a certain item, what do you do? Change your strategy to handle it. Your opponents are stacking Shrunken Heads? Your team refocuses to do melee damage faster. This would essentially just provide an opposite effect. This would make your team change strategy to focus on magic first on the Trinket holder.

Of course, you also must remember that this item counters itself. If both teams have a well placed Demoralizing Trinket, they would both end up with +5% damage.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

So what you're saying is that the entire concept of a -Damage% aura is broken, which is an acceptable point of view.

However, I contest that the item is sound. My reasoning is this (relating each point back to one of your arguments):

1) Increasing the damage difference is the point of every DPS item in the game. Saying that it increases/decreases the damage too much is simply number balancing, which as always, can be changed at the drop of the hat for balance.

2) The armor boost is only defensively greater than Daemonic BP, and lacks the incredibly valuable offensive aspect that DBP does. DBP essentially puts a Shieldbreaker debuff on every enemy (and building) within radius, while still leaving them susceptible to more -armor for an actual Shieldbreaker or other gear. Abyssal's armor buff is already as strong as it, because the defense isn't the most valuable part of the item.

3) -% melee damage is a powerful effect, but not uncounterable at all. Any time your opponent buys a certain item, what do you do? Change your strategy to handle it. Your opponents are stacking Shrunken Heads? Your team refocuses to do melee damage faster. This would essentially just provide an opposite effect. This would make your team change strategy to focus on magic first on the Trinket holder.

Of course, you also must remember that this item counters itself. If both teams have a well placed Demoralizing Trinket, they would both end up with +5% damage.

To the shrunken head comment, so you're suggesting turning witch slayer into a physical dps hero?

[NovaX811]

Not at all. If your team is properly composed, your melee DPS should excel at that point, while witch slayer shifts his items to a more support-like setup, rather than a magic-nuker type build.

But this isn't the strategy forum, so further discussion would probably be a bit off topic.

[SLASHER`]

i've been feeling like abyssal skull isn't as useful as I used to think. Perhaps making it upgradable is a good idea. I like the item. +8 armor aura is very beefy!!!

T-UP
btw Abyssal Skull gives +15% lifesteal, not 16%.