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Weenoman
07-31-2009, 11:17 PM
I really don't care about the leets who are going to tell me I'm wrong. From the games I play, this is what I think:

Need a nerf:
Torturer - too much potential damage even late game, awesome laner/ganker, and can deliver more pulsing AoE damage than pudge, without doing ANY damage to his own health. 177 per second, And the AoE blade spikes. Too much

Valkyrie- The spear stun needs to have a smaller maximum stun, higher minimum stun. How about a 4 second max, with a 2 second minimum.

Hellbringer- Utility AoE skill is way too good, the BEST laner, ok ganker because of DoT and snare, awesome lategame seiger. Refresher stone on this guy, woops!

Electrician- My favorite hero hands down. But WAY too good. 5 second channeling stun is fine, and its kinda his signature move. But his AoE nuke should probably turned into a crappy passive. He's way too good late game as a tank because of that, but his manashield isnt the issue its that sweet AoE nuke.

Moon Queen: Just her ult. Little too good considering how sweet her other abilities are. She's not as bad as the others, just needs to lose either some ult damage, or something else.

These are whom I think are the baseline, well balanced heroes that shouldn't be moved much:

Warbeast: Great hero. Balanced summons make him a decent laner, good passive, good buff, and his ultimate gives him an escape move. He can be suppressed early which balances him out, he can't just keep spamming dogs early on, unless he wastes money on mana, and he also feeds you extra money and exp in doing so. Good at what he does, but isn't a hero that can do it all like some are.

Puppetmaster: Good hero, that isn't invincible, or good at too many different things. Decent laner, awesome ganker, but isn't a huge tower pushing nightmare at the same time.

Now for the list of Buff heroes that I've seen:

Blacksmith: I have no idea how this hero doesn't get serious love. Why in God's name would you make a character this luck dependent? a 1.5 second stun on his nuke??? Bad secondary AoE DoT? Ok, his buff skill is pretty good, but would you really take him over torturer, or even thunderbringer, or pyromancer, oh, and he's MELEE. What??? Buff big time!

Pebbles: Yea, the notorious pebbles. I think he needs a buff. They took away his stellar passive without giving him back a normal amount of armor. His nukes are good, but you have to itemize more mana to make them really good, which puts him behind everyone else. He's close to par. Just needs the normal or just slightly lower than normal amount of armer.

FulgoreSama
07-31-2009, 11:43 PM
Iunno arch. He's a pretty good pusher. Just not to an organized team

tddvisme
08-01-2009, 12:37 AM
Disagree on Moon Queen(Luna). She's fine the way she is, very soft but high damage.

I think Zephyr needs a buff. He doesn't really fulfill any good role in the game.



...
yeah
i love the owl but maybe it need buff
the ulti have long cds, quite short duration and not very infective
the 2nd skill of the owl is great, i love it ^^
if it is buffed, it will be a very nice hero

Darkstrand
08-01-2009, 12:42 AM
Whoah whoah whoah..

Are you saying each and every Arrow Valk makes should always be atleast a 2 second stun? Talk about imbaaa

SyyRaaaN
08-01-2009, 01:22 AM
[QUOTE=Weenoman;79431]I really don't care about the leets who are going to tell me I'm wrong. From the games I play, this is what I think:

Need a nerf:
Torturer - too much potential damage even late game, awesome laner/ganker, and can deliver more pulsing AoE damage than pudge, without doing ANY damage to his own health. 177 per second, And the AoE blade spikes. Too much



Nah he does not need a nerf right now. Now that his chain lightning doesnt hit invisiable units nor units in fog he is fine. I would rather see his diabloic edict buffed to its dota level of 50 damage per second.



Valkyrie- The spear stun needs to have a smaller maximum stun, higher minimum stun. How about a 4 second max, with a 2 second minimum.
No, but its issues with phaseboots and invis units need to be fixed. Also starfall hitting fogged units and invis is currently broken. Her arrow needs to stop hitting siege units and gets its aoe slightly fixed.




Hellbringer- Utility AoE skill is way too good, the BEST laner, ok ganker because of DoT and snare, awesome lategame seiger. Refresher stone on this guy, woops!We need diffusalblade charges to kill this beast as in Dota or atleast damage it for a great portion, like 1k damage to summons. And its charges reduced. This one is simply to beefy. Better than nerfing it, is to give us some kind of counter to it.



Electrician- My favorite hero hands down. But WAY too good. 5 second channeling stun is fine, and its kinda his signature move. But his AoE nuke should probably turned into a crappy passive. He's way too good late game as a tank because of that, but his manashield isnt the issue its that sweet AoE nuke.His lategame capabilites are low. Who would focus Electrician in a teamfight except for a single stun when he channels his ensnare? Only bad players.




Moon Queen: Just her ult. Little too good considering how sweet her other abilities are. She's not as bad as the others, just needs to lose either some ult damage, or something else.Her ult is dealt with by killing her or fighting near creeps. She is paper. If Luna is fed, then its over. Shaman headdress and BKB works fine vs it.



These are whom I think are the baseline, well balanced heroes that shouldn't be moved much:

Warbeast: Great hero. Balanced summons make him a decent laner, good passive, good buff, and his ultimate gives him an escape move. He can be suppressed early which balances him out, he can't just keep spamming dogs early on, unless he wastes money on mana, and he also feeds you extra money and exp in doing so. Good at what he does, but isn't a hero that can do it all like some are.

He is useless due to the overpowered jungle. The jungle needs to be easier.




Puppetmaster: Good hero, that isn't invincible, or good at too many different things. Decent laner, awesome ganker, but isn't a huge tower pushing nightmare at the same time. He is fine.




Now for the list of Buff heroes that I've seen:

Blacksmith: I have no idea how this hero doesn't get serious love. Why in God's name would you make a character this luck dependent? a 1.5 second stun on his nuke??? Bad secondary AoE DoT? Ok, his buff skill is pretty good, but would you really take him over torturer, or even thunderbringer, or pyromancer, oh, and he's MELEE. What??? Buff big time!Ogremagi never should have been ported. Either to weak or to broken.





Pebbles: Yea, the notorious pebbles. I think he needs a buff. They took away his stellar passive without giving him back a normal amount of armor. His nukes are good, but you have to itemize more mana to make them really good, which puts him behind everyone else. He's close to par. Just needs the normal or just slightly lower than normal amount of armer.They need to nerf his avalanche to how it was before, but making toss seeking its target so it cant miss. They just need to do an exact dota port of thisone (except 3rd skill, craggy exterior) to make him balanced.

Jo
08-01-2009, 01:31 AM
No on all accounts except make pebbles less buggy.

tddvisme: if you hear about whine about unkillable electricians (also fine) you should see a owl that knows what he's doing.

Guile
08-01-2009, 01:47 AM
threads like these make my day. I think you guys need to watch some high level dota / hon and tell pros some of the stuff you are saying here... would be funny

tddvisme
08-01-2009, 06:06 AM
No on all accounts except make pebbles less buggy.

tddvisme: if you hear about whine about unkillable electricians (also fine) you should see a owl that knows what he's doing.
what do U mean?
i think that mageban can solve this problem easily, electrician just like medusa, anti him by using a dame dealer with mana burn orb.
furthermore, i don't think a owl can anti electrician :-?. And if it can => the owl is made just for antiing electrician :|
nonsense

Level5Pidgey
08-01-2009, 08:25 AM
It may just be me, but I'm finding Puppet Master unbearable to lane against at the moment. Great animation, great damage, can trap someone for quite long at level 1 and beat them down a little.

I dunno, might just be me, but I think his base damage should be bumped down a little early.

Weenoman
08-01-2009, 01:21 PM
threads like these make my day. I think you guys need to watch some high level dota / hon and tell pros some of the stuff you are saying here... would be funny

Because pros never complain about balance.

Oh wait, they do constantly.

gg

Grizzlyman
08-01-2009, 01:50 PM
you're dumb
i disagree with all those "needed" nerfs
l2p and stop qqing cuz you got owned by those heroes