Logger's Armor

[HbG1]

Logger's Armor
An other name can be made for the item. Logger's Gear as suggested by hideinlight.

http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Iron-Buckler.png
- Shield Buckler 250

+
http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Loggers-Hatchet.png
- Logger's Hatchet 225

+
http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Gaurdian-Ring.png
- Guardian Ring 175

+
http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Minor-Totem.png
- x2 Minor Totem 106

+
- Recipe 444

= Gives Logger's Armor:
Total: 1200

+ 65% chance to block 20 attack damage for melee heroes, 10 if ranged. (+5%)
+ 35% base damage vs creeps. 15% for an ranged hero.(+3% on each)
+ 3 armor. (+1)
+ 3 to all stats. (+1 to all)

------------------------OR------------------------------------------------


+
http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Minor-Totem.png
- x1 Minor Totem 53

+
http://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Crushing-Claws.png
- Gives an 3 extra str in bonus.

+
- Recipe 247

= Gives Logger's Armor:
Total: 1100

+ 65% chance to block 20 attack damage for melee heroes, 10 if ranged. (+5%)
+ 35% base damage vs creeps. 15% for an ranged hero.(+3% on each)
+ 3 armor. (+1)
+ 1 str - 4 str - 1 int. (+1 str)

This item would be great for heroes that needs both some block %.
And the extra base damage for last hit. Also adds and nice early game
bonus to armor and stats.


The look of Logger's Armor

Dont have the skills or program to make my own icon.
But my idea is an Shield Buckler with the totem colors,
with an Logger's hatchet blade in the middle instead of the red dot.


And please come with comments!


Changes:

- Added that 15% for an ranged hero. Wich I forgot. 12.January.2010
- Added ( with bonuses ) for each bonus this item gives in this green color. 12.January.2010
- Added an How will it look text. 12.January.2010
- Added an alternative way to the item. 13.January.2010
- Added an Recipe to both options after price critics. 1.Febuary.2010 (WOOPS COST CAN BE CHANGED!)

- Alternative name: Logger's Gear, suggested by hideinlight

[NovaX811]

I like it. It makes early game tanking a little better, while making it easier for those characters to get the base gold they need.

[HbG1]

My toughts exactly, and glad you liked it : D

Forgot to add that off course if an Range hero buy it.
For example Moon Queen she will get less base damage +

[noodle0117]

this would pretty much be a must for almost all melee carries.
Luv it.

[HbG1]

Thanks noodle, hope many more will like it to.


btw: The one that voted no, i would liked if you said why : D

[Wimpmunch]

This item would be awsome early game :D

[Xozzen]

awesome early game item, would dominate early game for most of the heroes

i think that you have to post why you vote YES may let you gain some less votes there

[Error]

A very nice item!
I'd imagine that it would be used much, and you also get to use Logger's Hatchet (which often is sold/thrown away)!
Also, so far as I see, it's nicely balanced.

[fatrend1]

Can then later be taken apart for items like Power Supply, HOTBL or Ring of Sorcery. Seems very versatile but maybe a little overwhleming putting so many really good early game items together.

[Efertin]

It combines 3 extremely good early game items into another extremely good item, I'd call it overpowered and I'm also a firm believer that hatchet shouldn't be upgradable into anything.

[Helgeran1]

Loggers don't use armor so call it something else.

[HbG1]

Fatrend: Yes it have items that can be used in others.
But more items do, as an Iron Shield or Ring of Teacher.
So dont think this is an problem.

Efertin: The point of this item is to give heroes like str an early game armor.
Now the base damage only works on creeps, and is just slighty better.
This makes an tank who often have less then an Agi hero, able to last hit.
Lets say an random str meets Chronos. Chronos have a lot better chance to get the hit.
Off course Chronos can go for this item to, but in the end what would he end up doing with it? Selling it. The only thing I see right now he can use is Shield Bucker to Iron Shield. But then he rather just get Iron + Hatchet.

Now an possibilty is off course to change it a bit.
1 idea is: That it gives +1 agi and int, but 3-5 str.

2 idea is: Recipe that does it wont be able to get without courier or spawn trip.
But this kind of ruins the main goal of the item early game farming.


[AS]Helgeran
Names can off course be changed, but it was the first name to come in my mind.
But Logger's would use Armor if they went to war.

[dinomoai]

It seems like this item wouldn't be very effective at all later in the game, which is kind of something you want for "Stating" items to have them a bit more viable late game. The problem with this item is it's basically like buying a whole bunch of starting items and shoving them into one...
which you'd either sell or dismantle within a few minutes to make better items that will be much better in the long run. Sure, it's a beautiful early game item, but so is all those items. You're basically just saying,

tl;dr:
"I don't like carrying around all these items and just want them to take 1 inventory slot."

[Yayformee]

2x53 =/= 103
2x53 = 106
fix this and t-up

[balsafresh]

No. We have two buckler-using items for early game already. No need for a third, especially one for keeping melee carries alive (as if the game wasn't carry-centric enough already).

[Techies]

Alternative name suggestion : Logger's Gear.
Btw is it usable?

[HbG1]

dinomoai It's the same with late game items, they are all good but better togther. And thats the goal of this item. Making an early game alternative for str heroes.

YayformeetTotal price is still right tho, but fixed it on the text to Minor Totem.

Yayformeet Balsafresh we got Iron Shield thats early, no more nada. HotBL is more mid game. + Why i added an alternative, thats makes the item more for strength heroes.

HideinlightYes, Logger's Gear is an option if new name.


+ Dont vote number 2 at once, say why and then think again : D

[Dabearsown]

all you did was buff an iron shield, dont like this idea

[HbG1]

I did not buff an Iron Shield, made an tanker item.

[HbG1]

Up again! : D

[HbG1]

Well time to get this up again! ^^

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

I wont vote no on this, but I will say why I don't think this is a very good idea.

The main thing people do not take into consideration in these item suggestions is the value of an item slot. for 853 gold or whatever, what you're describing is way too valuable for one item slot.

First of all, I don't understand the pricing, the first option is way better as it gives 2 more intel and agility than the other FOR A LOWER PRICE, at the cost of 1 str. Am I missing something, or is this actually how it was supposed to be set? If the imbalance was intentional, I apologize.

Anyways, the main point is that if a melee hero were to pick this item up (easily doable in 2 or 3 minutes with 603 starting gold, as half of the components are at the side shop, and after buying a heal it will only cost either 250 or 350 more), the effect would be too good.

The reason that the Logger's Hatchet is so cheap is not because it's bad, but because it takes up a whole item slot for a very specific purpose. Giving the Logger's Hatchet secondary effects as an upgrade such as these stat bonuses is too overpowered.

I completely agree with dinomoai, what this is is a bunch of early game items slammed into one and buffed. A nice stat boost, armor, extra creep damage, hero damage block, under 900 gold. To get that currently it would require, three totems, one of each +3 stat items, or a power supply(159/450/503) plus a shield (250 gold) plus a logger's hatchet (225 gold), and for the armor plus a ring of protection (which would still not give as much, 175 gold). Yes, you lose your creep damage protection, but you still get extra damage against the creeps, a better chance to block the heroes, and the most important thing ONE ITEM SLOT!!!

Those items listed (if you went the cheapest way), cost 809 gold, and take up all of your item slots. All of them. You can't just compress all of that into 1 and make it the same price. This is why a +10 stat item costs over double a +6, and a +6 costs 3 times as much as a +3, it's all about item slots. A major totem, same stats as four minor totems cost over 2.5 times more.

Overall, I think that the logger's hatchet SHOULD have a small recipe upgrade that would give it a slight buff, but this is too much.

[Woozer]

This item doesn't fill any need, there is no reason for it to be added. All it does is compress other things that already exist.

[Danvari]

How about an Iron Shield instead of Buckler, Ring and Minor Totem?

[HbG1]

I wont vote no on this, but I will say why I don't think this is a very good idea.

The main thing people do not take into consideration in these item suggestions is the value of an item slot. for 853 gold or whatever, what you're describing is way too valuable for one item slot.

First of all, I don't understand the pricing, the first option is way better as it gives 2 more intel and agility than the other FOR A LOWER PRICE, at the cost of 1 str. Am I missing something, or is this actually how it was supposed to be set? If the imbalance was intentional, I apologize.

Anyways, the main point is that if a melee hero were to pick this item up (easily doable in 2 or 3 minutes with 603 starting gold, as half of the components are at the side shop, and after buying a heal it will only cost either 250 or 350 more), the effect would be too good.

The reason that the Logger's Hatchet is so cheap is not because it's bad, but because it takes up a whole item slot for a very specific purpose. Giving the Logger's Hatchet secondary effects as an upgrade such as these stat bonuses is too overpowered.

I completely agree with dinomoai, what this is is a bunch of early game items slammed into one and buffed. A nice stat boost, armor, extra creep damage, hero damage block, under 900 gold. To get that currently it would require, three totems, one of each +3 stat items, or a power supply(159/450/503) plus a shield (250 gold) plus a logger's hatchet (225 gold), and for the armor plus a ring of protection (which would still not give as much, 175 gold). Yes, you lose your creep damage protection, but you still get extra damage against the creeps, a better chance to block the heroes, and the most important thing ONE ITEM SLOT!!!

Those items listed (if you went the cheapest way), cost 809 gold, and take up all of your item slots. All of them. You can't just compress all of that into 1 and make it the same price. This is why a +10 stat item costs over double a +6, and a +6 costs 3 times as much as a +3, it's all about item slots. A major totem, same stats as four minor totems cost over 2.5 times more.

Overall, I think that the logger's hatchet SHOULD have a small recipe upgrade that would give it a slight buff, but this is too much.


First of thanks for an such big feedback.
And numbers can always be changed so price can be editet.

My fault that the first option is wrong, forgot to add the recipe.
That will rise the cost to more then option number 2.
Will add it once i get a chance, I can just answer you atm.

See your point and as I write numbers can be changed.
So that can be fixed.

Again see your point and I agree Hatchet is an good item.
But with giving recipe to both options this should solve it.
And require an trip back to base.

See your and dinomoai point at the Inventory slot.
But its not like an Nomes Wisdom dont contain good items that you can buy early. Ring of Teacher and Major Totem is cheap but both togther is more expensive and dont give all the bonuses. So an Recipe to both options will be added.

But really think this item would last longer then early game.
If your team is struggling you wouldnt throw away this item.
Since it help you alot vs creeps. And give you a little better chance to survive.

Will add an Recipe cost to both options at making first option to cost 1300.
And the second options (the tanker way) to end up costing 1200.
Hope this will make the item look better and the power fit its price.

[HbG1]

How about an Iron Shield instead of Buckler, Ring and Minor Totem?

Well what i hoped to do was to create an item mainly for tankers.
That would serve them some of the most importants elements.
Strength, armor, block and extra creep damage for farm.
Only thing it dont add is regen but some from the Strength ofc.

[Danvari]

Well what i hoped to do was to create an item mainly for tankers.
That would serve them some of the most importants elements.
Strength, armor, block and extra creep damage for farm.
Only thing it dont add is regen but some from the Strength ofc.

Well I thought more about carries than tanks there with Iron Shield. xD

[deadlyhealz]

Very good combination of stats for early gameplay.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

First of thanks for an such big feedback.
And numbers can always be changed so price can be editet.

My fault that the first option is wrong, forgot to add the recipe.
That will rise the cost to more then option number 2.
Will add it once i get a chance, I can just answer you atm.

See your point and as I write numbers can be changed.
So that can be fixed.

Again see your point and I agree Hatchet is an good item.
But with giving recipe to both options this should solve it.
And require an trip back to base.

See your and dinomoai point at the Inventory slot.
But its not like an Nomes Wisdom dont contain good items that you can buy early. Ring of Teacher and Major Totem is cheap but both togther is more expensive and dont give all the bonuses. So an Recipe to both options will be added.

But really think this item would last longer then early game.
If your team is struggling you wouldnt throw away this item.
Since it help you alot vs creeps. And give you a little better chance to survive.

Will add an Recipe cost to both options at making first option to cost 1300.
And the second options (the tanker way) to end up costing 1200.
Hope this will make the item look better and the power fit its price.

Better, good adaptations. I do think that the armor should be kept at 2 though, and the block kept at 60%. The compression alone should be more than enough compensation for that.

And now, you have a T-up

[KingBobby]

T-up! Exactly what carries need. Rename it though, probably "Logger's Vestments".

[Damage]

It seems to be a huge buff to melee heroes. Often times the 225 and 250 for hatchet has to be made back in creep kills since you cant sell it. If this item is implemented, every melee hero would start with shield/hatchet.

I'll think about it before I vote.

[OJPhoenix]

This is a good item, theres no denying that, what concerns me is that it might be too good, its cheap and offer's melee heroes something they want early on, an easier time creep killing, they've got their hatchet for last hit damage, and now this gives them a shield to block that incoming harassment.

I don't think the Logger's Hatchet was ever intended to be upgraded, not that it can't, its because its an extremely good item, it offers a large bonus to last hitting, one that scales all game remaining effective start to finish. Also the cutting down of the tree is an unbelievably powerful abililty, other than the obvious taking down KotF's eyes, it can make small paths in the trees that previously didn't exist, offering a surprise Juke that the enemy cannot easily predict significantly increasing chance of escaping/hiding, and finally when you put down a ward this can be used to cut down a tree creating shadow, increasing vision by a substantial amount.

It's kinda like Portal Key in a way, a powerfully strong simple item that isn't really designed to be turned into anything else and designed to take up an item slot in order to have said valuable Ability or Abilities, hence I'm concerned this item is too good.

[GeneralGrind]

I vote yes, cause I would have bought it all the time. Thus, it is a good item.

[HbG1]

bump!

[SirJefferE]

It combines 3 extremely good early game items into another extremely good item, I'd call it overpowered and I'm also a firm believer that hatchet shouldn't be upgradable into anything.

I agree. I already buy axe and shield on nearly every melee carry. A small balance to those items is that they really aren't worth much late game. Combining them into one would basically be a must have, and would really be too strong.

It's a nice idea, but yeah, hatchet shouldn't be upgradable.

[nikoPSK]

Tup :keep::dead:

[Nosferato]

I like this item.

[ImmaPwnYou]

Needs to be implemented ASAP. Finally a use for that loggers-hatchet-that-you-dont-need-anymore-from-level-blabla-and-on.

[archkyle]

good use of hatchet, t-up

[HbG1]

Wow, thx for all the good and positive comments. To not forget the yes votes.

[HbG1]

Well, still need more votes.