Mossdemar (Ganker/Initiator)

[dandylion]

Mossdemar, Ancient Golem

Dream Link (http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/hero/dandylion/Mossdemar)

Thanks to everyone that voted and supplied feedback!
This wouldn't have gotten to popular if it weren't for you!


http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8554/golemedit.jpg


Affiliation: Legion
Main Attribute: Strength
Attack: Melee
Move: 305
Base Stats:
Strength - 20 (+2.4)
Agility - 15 (+1.3)
Intelligence - 18 (+2.1)

Story:
Slumbering in the murky depths of the Great Swamps of Newerth, Mossdemar's peaceful slumber has been broken by the drums of war. The Hellbourne have disturbed his swamps and have disturbed the life force of the world, and for that, Mossdemar shall bring his earthy wrath.

Role:
Great as a ganker, pulling people away from their towers and splitting up groups. Also works well as an initiator via his ultimate, or a combination of his other abilities.



Skill 1 - Vicious Vines
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2088/vinewhipedit.jpg

Mossdemar manipulates the force of nature itself to cause vines to burst from the ground, twist and flail, and violently blast away any enemies caught in their path.

Spell: Active
Target: Ground/Unit
Damage: 60/90/120/150 Magic Damage
AOE: 250/275/300/325
Cast Range: 800
Spin Duration: 2/2/3/4 sec
Stun Duration: 1/1/1.5/2 sec
Mana Cost: 120 mana
Cooldown: 20/19/18/17 seconds
Other Notes: After cast, takes 1 second for vines to completely grow out and begin "spinning". Any enemy unit inside the aoe, or entering it while the vines are "spinning" will be pushed back to the outside limit of the spinning vines and be knocked down (read stunned). If a unit previously hit by the vines re-enters the aoe while the vines are still spinning, they will suffer damage and be stunned again. (because of the duration of the spin and the stun, the most anyone could ever get hit per cast is twice).


Example Picture:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/164/golemvinewhip.jpg

Uses and synergy: Great to cut off escapes, or break up a group for initiation. Good to keep people where you want them for Earth's Wrath or Rolling Stone.

Skill 2 - Rapid Growth
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3500/golemmossedit.jpg
Mossdemar's body is covered with vines and thick moss, allowing him to regenerate quickly, and hinder his enemies.

Spell: Passive
Target: Self/enemies
Passive Effect (self): Regenerates 5/10/15/20% of damage taken over 5 seconds.
Passive Effect (enemy): On attack, places a stacking debuff on enemies called "Mossy Growth". Effect can stack up to 3 times.
Mossy Growth debuff: Reduces attack speed and movement speed by 1/2/3/4% per stack, lasts 3 seconds.

Uses and synergy: All around useful as a melee hero, taking 20% of the brunt off of attacks over time makes it balanced, also partially neuters carries and stops people from fleeing easily.

Skill 3 - Earth's Wrath
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3434/golempulledit.jpg
Mossdemar uses his power over nature to cause the earth to create a giant wave, pulling enemies to him and disorienting them for a short period.

Spell: Active
Target: Ground/Unit
Damage: 100/175/250/325 Magic Damage
AOE: 600
Other Effects: 50% initial movement speed decrease, slowly tapering off over time
Slow Duration: 1/1/2/2 sec for 50% slow, reduces to 0% linearly over next 2 seconds
Cast Range: 700
Mana Cost: 140 mana
Cooldown: 26/24/22/20 seconds
Other Notes: Effect occurs in a 600 unit curved line area in the rear, pulling units caught in the wave to the original casting point. Effect takes 2.5/2.2/1.9/1.6 seconds to complete. (This means the speed of the wave is 280/318/368/437.5) Units are immobolized and disarmed while being pulled, but not silenced (you can cast stuns/blinks/other abilities that aren't channelled) after being caught in the wave for the duration, but are immune to physical damage until deposited at the casting point. The damage is dealt during the duration, so the farther they move while in the wave, the more damage they take.

IE: A unit caught at 600 units away would take 279 magic damage and a unit caught at 400 units away would take 186 magic damage.

Example Picture:
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6505/golempull.jpg

For clarification, think of the shape and movement of it as a reverse of Pyromancer's flame nuke. It pulls units that are hit by it towards the casting point, and slows them after they land.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6836/golempullmodify.jpg
It's not quite proportional, but the space between the bottom of the circle (600 aoe) and the original cast point would be 400 units.


Use and Synergy: A "get back here!" type spell that sets you up for combos with not only your own spells, but the spells of your teammates. Could be used to pull enemies together for the ultimate, or pulling them into vicious vines.

Ultimate - Rolling Stone
http://www.guildwars.com/images/professions/skillicons/elementalist/churningearth.jpg
Mossdemar rolls himself into a ball, catching everything he passes through in his wake and damaging them.
(Green values are boosted by Staff of the Master)
Spell: Active
Target: Ground/Unit (enemies and allies)
Damage: 14(20)/23(29)/32/(38) physical damage per 100 units traveled; Max of 375/500/600 (550/675/800) physical damage
AOE: 200 + 50 per unit caught in roll (max of 600 aoe)
Mana Cost: 50/100/150 initial, 10 mana per 100 units traveled
Cooldown: 120(100)/100(80)/80/(60) seconds
Other Notes: Starts at 800 movement speed, reduced by 150 every second. Roll ends when toggled off, movement speed reaches zero, when Mossdemar runs out of mana, or if Mossdemar is silenced or stunned. When the roll ends, all units are stunned for 1 second, including allies and Mossdemar. While rolling, Mossdemar ignores terrain and pathing (much like sand wraith's nuke). The damage from this ability is dealt AFTER THE ROLL ENDS not during it. Armor would effect this based on the final amount of damage dealt ie. "600" damage with 50% armor reduction would only deal 300 damage at the end. Trees he moves through while rolling are destroyed as to not "trap" people in the forest.

You can freely control Mossdemar while rolling, just like you normally would, but his turn time would be increased slightly and you can't stop (without ending the ability at least) as to make it possible for enemies to move out of the way.

Note: I'm not entirely sure how this would work in game, it all depends on how it would be programmed in, if even possible, but this is the concept I came up with, and if it needs to be changed to make it work, then so be it! If it would need to be made so that he can only travel in a straight line, then so be it too!

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3517/rollingstoneexample.jpg

Example scenario: Mossdemar uses Rolling Stone and catches an enemy immediately. Mossdemar continues to roll for 5.3 more seconds before he runs out of mana.

Assume max rank.
When he hit the first unit, his roll speed was 800. It was reduced by 150 every second.
all in all, he traveled 725+575+425+275+125+50 = 2175 units.
(2175/100) = 22, 22 X 32 = 704 damage, however the max is 600, so only 600 physical damage could be dealt maximum.

The entire ordeal took 5.3 seconds, put Mossdemar and his target 2175 units away, and dealt at most 600 damage to the enemy, costing 368 mana.

To be more accurate, I'll explain how armor would work with this. Armor reduction would be based off of the total damage, in the above example the 704 damage. If a target had 25% damage reduction from armor, they would take 528 damage. The "maximum damage" clause applies AFTER armor is factored in.

Another example:
Mossdemar uses rolling stone to gank a unit tower hugging at mid. He rolls from the secret shop, and it takes 2 seconds to hit the enemy hero. After he catches the hero he rolls for 3.3 more seconds before ending at the rune spawn at the top river (where his teammates are conveniently waiting!).

When he hit the enemy hero, his roll speed was 500 because it took 2 seconds to reach the enemy hero. It was reduced by 150 every second.
All in all, with the enemy hero caught in the roll, he traveled 425+275+125+50 = 875 units.
(875/100) = 8.8, 8.8 X 32 = 281 damage.

The entire ordeal took 5.3 seconds, put Mossdemar 2175, and his target 875 units away (though they ended in the same spot), dealt 282 damage (ignoring armor mitigation), and cost 368 mana.

Example Picture:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5443/golemroll.jpg

Use and Synergy: Either a great initiation tool, a chasing tool, or a great damage dealer for using your other abilities to set up. Functional on so many levels!

Q and A:
Q: How would Earth's Wrath and Vicious Vines work together? Would it ignore the vines or would would they get hit out of the wave?
A: The vines would knock the enemies out of the wave, dropping them where they got pushed to with the vines. It would work the exact same way with any other abilities.

Q: Rolling Stone picks up allies too?
A:Yes, it does. The reasons for this are as follows: 1) you can bring your whole team in to initiate, 2) you can save teammates this way, 3) you can use them to make your "ball" bigger, 4) you can bring them along to finish off the enemies you picked up while rolling!

Q: What if while using the ult you run into an area that you can't move out of, or the edge of the map?
A: In that scenario, he would simply roll against the edge of the map and gain no more benefit for distance traveled aka damage done or mana lost. Trees he moves through while rolling do get knocked down, so getting stuck in the forest won't be possible unless you stand there and wait for them to respawn.

Q: (By Derbear)
When I read about the ult I thought about some things. I can't really think of how some other spells deal with this.

-If you roll over someone stunned will they be caught?
-If you roll over someone channeling will they be caught and interupted? allies?
-If you roll into say, chronofield or tempest's ulti, will you pick up people from there?
-If someone you roll onto has a dot and would die while in your roll, what will happen? Will they be damage immune, or where will their corpse "land"?

A:
-Yes
-Yes (both cases)
-No (you'd be stopped, you can be stunned/silenced/immobilized while rolling if they were enemies, and those ults would take priority, meaning you can't pull them into your "ball" while they're caught in another ult. Likewise, if you rolled into a Tempest using his ult that was on your team, you would keep rolling through, and the targets would get sucked into the Tempest ult from yours).
-Yes, they can take damage over time while in the roll, and normal damage while in the roll too (zeus ult/veno poison/whatnot). They're still targetable entities, but when they're moving that fast it gets really hard to hit them/click them. Their corpse would land where the roll ends, but they'd die as soon as their life total hit 0 (even if still inside the roll).

Of course this is all assuming that S2 could make it possible. If limitations were found and exceptions needed to be made, or for balance reasons it needed to be changed, then things would change obviously.

Suggestions and comments are appreciated!

_______________________________________________
Edits:
-Added ranks to the enemy effected portion of "mossy growth"
-Changes to damage of ranks of Rolling Stone and capped the AOE at 600
-Nerfed Earth's Wrath a bit, reducing the slow duration and clarifying the process
-Modified Stat Gain, added Staff of the Master effects to Ult, reduced damage on ult slightly
-Reduced Mossy Growth to only have 3 stacks instead of 5 max
-Changed earlier ranks of Mossy Growth to be 7/13/19/25% instead of 10/15/20/25%
-Reduced the cooldown on Rolling Stone from 120/100/80 to 100/80/60
-Major modifications to Rolling Stone, lowering cap damage to 600, and reducing speed faster, also increasing the initial mana cost to 50/100/150 initial
-Moved to popular with a 45/5 vote, 90% approval
-Reduced AOE on Vicious Vines from 400 at all ranks to a scaling 250/275/300/325
-Increased Cooldown on Rolling Stone by 20 seconds at all ranks
-Minor changes to Rolling Stone to make it scale more appropriately with levels
-Changed defensive portion of Rapid Growth to 5/10/15/20% regeneration
-Nerfed offensive portion of Rapid Growth to 3 seconds from 6 seconds
-Drastic changes to Earth's Wrath, including:
--Reduced range to 700
--Modification of how it works for enemies caught within
--Scaling cooldowns
--New picture!
--Edited math on Rolling Stone as some of the numbers were wrong (note: they're only approximations based on averages, don't rage about that ****)

[ShadowExile]

Bump for great hero. You already know my stand point and T-Up from me.

[dandylion]

More comments :) Thanks for the votes, keep the critiquing coming!

[kidicarus1]

Excellent hero idea! The moves synergize well and fit the theme. Pulls together a lot of usefulness for team fights. One of the better ideas I've seen in these forums. T-Up

[Manveru1]

God damn that's a hell of a good char :) The skills synergize perfectly with each other and t he theme is very decent. I like the idea of the ult :) If used right it can crash the entire enemy team when allies are not asleep :P

You have my vote!

[dandylion]

@ kidicarus - I wanted to bring in a hero that would be able to manipulate not only the physical areas where players would be, but be able to psychologically control their opponents by making areas "off limits" to say. I thought it was a type of play style that isn't exploited enough in these games.

@ manveru - Thanks for the feedback. I only wonder if some of his skills seem a little too beastly!

[BIGFATnalle]

Love the pictures explained alot you have my vote :)

[dandylion]

I knew some of the descriptions on the abilities would be a little confusing, so I added the pictures in because I felt they would help get across what I was going for. I'm glad they seemed to work =P

[Gibsonpure]

Everyone of his skills allows him to manipulate a battle, even if they have high mana cost or are 'balanced'. His attribute gain is way too high. Nice ideas though and creative...err...diagrams.

[dandylion]

Numbers can always be tweaked, and attribute gain is honestly a very minor part of the suggestion itself, as those are easily changed. Humbly respect your opinions, and feedback nonetheless.

I would also point out that Pandamonium can similarly manipulate position via flick and flurry. He has a great degree of control over you, and his abilities are generally far less avoidable than the proposed abilities of this hero.

[dandylion]

Bump

[War_Mech]

Seems like a nice fun hero, fairly balanced. T-up

[dandylion]

Thanks for the feedback :) Always appreciated

[dandylion]

Bump

[Veseli]

Very unique blend of spells. All about placement manipulation, in a set of skilled hands, this hero could be insane! I like it a lot, definitely a fresh set of ideas here.

[Lupeys]

Skill 3 - Earth's Wrath
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3434/golempulledit.jpg
Mossdemar uses his power over nature to cause the earth to create a giant wave, pulling enemies to him and disorienting them for a short period.

Spell: Active
Target: Ground/Unit
Damage: 100/175/250/325 Magic Damage
AOE: 600
Other Effects: 50% initial movement speed decrease, slowly tapering off over time
Slow Duration: 1/2/2/3 sec for 50% slow, reduces to 0% over next 2 seconds
Cast Range: 1000
Mana Cost: 140 mana
Cooldown: 22 seconds
Other Notes: Effect occurs in a 600 unit line area in the rear, pulling units caught in the wave to the original casting point. Effect takes 2 seconds to complete. Units are stunned after being caught in the wave for the duration, but are immune to physical damage until deposited at the casting point. The damage is dealt during the duration, so the longer they're stuck in the wave, the more damage they take.

IE: A unit caught at 900 units away would take 293 magic damage and a unit caught at 400 units away would take 130 magic damage.

Example Picture:
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6505/golempull.jpg

LOVE IT! its like a reverse Witch slayer stun combined with pudges hook. Awesome skill.

Although the hero concept... kinda sounds like Deadwood and Pebbles combined =(

[dandylion]

Honestly, it fits into the whole "earth golem creature thing" category, but that's simply cosmetic. The abilities are very different from what any of those heroes have (Deadwood/Pebbles/Keeper of the Forest). I appreciate the feedback, as always :) many thanks!

[Izual]

Skill 1:
Seems like the opposite of Deadwood's skill unless i read wrong. I could see it being useful with many heroes (Kraken, Tempest, Deadwood, etc) with skills that pull heroes together, why not have one that shoots them apart?

Skill 2:
I assume both effects only apply to melee damage taken/given?

Skill 3:
Brilliant idea, but have you considered the skill being channeled? Might balance it a little more but good job thinking that one up :)

Ult:
Similar to Storm Spirit yet unique to your hero, very good :)


Nice idea, T-up

[dandylion]

Skill 1:
Seems like the opposite of Deadwood's skill unless i read wrong. I could see it being useful with many heroes (Kraken, Tempest, Deadwood, etc) with skills that pull heroes together, why not have one that shoots them apart?

Skill 2:
I assume both effects only apply to melee damage taken/given?

Skill 3:
Brilliant idea, but have you considered the skill being channeled? Might balance it a little more but good job thinking that one up :)

Ult:
Similar to Storm Spirit yet unique to your hero, very good :)


Nice idea, T-up

The regen passive is from all damage, the stacking debuff passive is only from physical attacks.

I wasn't thinking so much channelled for ability three, if people deemed it massively OP, I would just as soon nerf some other aspect of it, as being able to chain it together with other skills is half the fun =P

Thanks for the comments, always appreciated :)

[EroticMonkey]

Great synergy,and hero but the passive is overkill

t-up

[dandylion]

Great synergy,and hero but the passive is overkill

t-up

Overkill how so? It's virtually the same as rewind, but still makes him susceptible to being focused down. The stacking debuff on foes is reasonably low and requires repetitive hits to fully apply. I felt the numbers were certainly within reason.

4 pyro ults at 25% chance to negate = 3800 X (0.75) = 2850 final damage

4 pyro ults, healing for 25% of all damage taken = 3800 - 950 (amount regenerated combined on all 4 hits) = 2850 final damage

Even factoring in a 30% mitigation on armor...

950 X 0.7 X 3 (number out of 4 that hit on average) = 1995 damage

(950 X 0.7 X 4) - (665 X 4 X 0.25) = 2660 - 665 = 1995 damage

They're completely identical, except it's not luck based (down with RNG) and it requires 5 seconds time for you to be completely healed of the damage.

[EroticMonkey]

Overkill how so? It's virtually the same as rewind, but still makes him susceptible to being focused down. The stacking debuff on foes is reasonably low and requires repetitive hits to fully apply. I felt the numbers were certainly within reason.

4 pyro ults at 25% chance to negate = 3800 X (0.75) = 2850 final damage

4 pyro ults, healing for 25% of all damage taken = 3800 - 950 (amount regenerated combined on all 4 hits) = 2850 final damage

Even factoring in a 30% mitigation on armor...

950 X 0.7 X 3 (number out of 4 that hit on average) = 1995 damage

(950 X 0.7 X 4) - (665 X 4 X 0.25) = 2660 - 665 = 1995 damage

They're completely identical, except it's not luck based (down with RNG) and it requires 5 seconds time for you to be completely healed of the damage.
rewind is overkill too

as you said they are 99% identical change it

[dandylion]

rewind is overkill too

as you said they are 99% identical change it

They're really not though.

If you blow up Chronos in 5 seconds, he'll on average mitigate 25% of that.

If you blow up Mossdemar in 5 seconds, he'll regenerate none of it, and take the full brunt force of damage.

The end point is the same, it's a different means of getting there.

Pyromancer and Torturer both have a delayed AOE stun that gets them to the same point. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry that you disagree with it, if you feel so adamantly about it, feel free to cast me a negative vote. I don't feel like using a different mechanic to achieve an already existing result is a bad way to go about things. Heck, half of the abilities in these forums are the same exact thing. I respectfully disagree.

[Skull2d]

The problem is, this is not easy to create a texture.

[dandylion]

Not easy to create a texture? I'm afraid I don't quite understand which part you're saying would be hard to create. I'm sure they would be able to do whatever they need to to make the abilities work with whatever visual they were willing to design.

[dandylion]

Bump for more feedback!

[dandylion]

Keepin it bumped.

[Simo66]

hmmm, seems as tho his ulti is slightly OP imho, because if used properly, can pick up and move a whole team of enemies to a specific location, where his teammates can be waiting to gank, AND, on top of that, deals 800 physical damage to all of them... While 800 physical damage isn't too OP in lategame, that's the same damage that deadwood's ulti does to just a single target (not including the str reduction), as well as stunning the whole group for a second...

The way I read it, only the people he has with him while rolling are stunned, and so if he bring's a whole group to a waiting group of allies, that's GG. simply have pyro, and some other aoe damage dealer/stunner waiting, and the overall effect of the ulti is insta-kill for anyone caught in it... There's also the combo of shrunken head right before rolling, so he can't even be stopped before he gets to the enemy...

I think the concept of the idea is unique and original, but overall, if someone plays this character well, it's way OP. I think the general idea is good, but needs to be toned down a bit. (Perhaps reducing damage dealt, or perhaps him not dragging enemies along with him, but simply stunning and damaging enemies he runs into, with length of stun/damage dealt determined by move speed?)

[dandylion]

I agree that it can be kind of OP, and I've been trying to find some sort of middle ground for this, however, it comes at a fairly high mana price, situational use, and breaks if he gets stunned. If the enemy is quick enough to throw a stun at him while they see him barreling at them, he's now (very likely at least) in a very bad spot, probably by himself, and will get easily destroyed.

Mossdemar (and EVERYBODY else both enemies and allies) gets stunned at the end of the roll. I think the damage still needs to be fairly high, and diminish as distance increases, but it's a very powerful tool and requires some careful balancing.

Thank you for the very useful feedback, I think you're one of the first to say anything about it, and it's something that I've certainly been looking for feedback on.

[dandylion]

I have modified the ult, lowering the cap to 600 (800 with SotM) and increasing the rate at which his speed is slowed. Mana cost was increased at highest rank. I think as far as damage is concerned, it's more balanced for the other effect it has as a "displacer". Let me know if you think it's been overly nerfed, or if you believe it's still too powerful.

[dandylion]

Thanks to everyone that voted and supplied feedback :) Even though it's in popular now, I still feel like there is room for improvement, so keep it coming!

[OguR93]

He has great skills, but he looks like pebb + deadwood too much.You should think about new design. Maybe ice golem ;D

[Fenrisulf]

Hahaha his ult is freaking awesome xD
I would love to use that in game. RAWWRRRRRRRR squish squish squish squish

Balance suggestions:

Add a maximum duration for his ult, it would be incrediblely OP if he can just keep rolling with enemies stuck to him (buy a shrunken head to stop him getting disabled and some mana items so he doesnt run out of mana for a long time). With ability to ignore terrain u could take them halfway across the map with enough mana while your team pounds on their base. You should probably also add a note for him to destroy trees with his ult, otherwise it may create problems with trapping him/his targets in a clump of trees near the edge of the map.

[dandylion]

The duration to the ult is limited. The speed at which you move is reduced by 150 every second, so when it reaches zero (from 800) it stops. I guess I could certainly make that more clear. It basically means the maximum duration is 5.33 seconds. And you can at max, move someone 2550 units (double a blink dagger roughly). It makes it fairly balanced I feel, because enemies chasing running after you to save their friends, or try to kill you, are going to be moving at around 350-400 ms. This means in order for them to travel the 2550 distance you went, it will take them between 6 and 8 seconds to get there. After the roll ends at 5.33 seconds, there's a 1 second stun to everybody that was rolling, so we're already at the 6+ second mark before anything can be done. I thought I had put in a note explaining that trees he moved through were destroyed (like Deadwood) but I'll look back through and make sure it's all there. Thanks for the feedback :)

The part explaining the "edge of map" and "tree" situations were in the Q&A at the bottom, but I added it into the regular notes, just as a double measure!

[Damage]

Cool hero. Love the ult, 3 skills that relocate enemies can be devistating if used correctly.

[dandylion]

Very devastating :) The way the abilities are set up makes them all fairly easy to avoid, but then you're playing the mental game and forcing them to go where you want them to. They don't deal an insane amount of damage, because the ability to manipulate positioning is worth far more, so it was a concession that needed to be made. As always, feedback is appreciated :)

[JellyBeans]

right, mind if i talk design?
i'll be happy to draw him so you have your own image, just need to know how you want him. his skills obviously revolve around the fact he is covered in moss/growth and vines, but what of any unusual things, runes? or crystals? his base layer would be stone, no doubt.

[dandylion]

If you really want to go to the trouble =P

He's pretty much an ancient stone golem, covered in moss and vines. There are a few indistinguishable markings across his stony form, probably from some long ago ancient race that created him. In his chest there are a few green stones that are illuminated, and his eyes are red ones. There are some noticeable cracks through some of his stonework, but most of them have been filled with moss. He's shorter and bulkier than pebbles. His fists are big blunt stones, his fingers are vines. His face is very primitive in nature (take that however you want it!) and his legs are short.

That's pretty much how I envisioned him. I felt the picture I found in the search was a pretty solid example, but feel free to improve on it :)

[dandylion]

I still think there's room for improvement somewhere! Anyone got any more ideas or complaints?

[Ryuukun]

Katamari lol

[dandylion]

Totally lol :)

[Varp]

Awesome synergy, and the paint pictures are just LOL.
Very funny how you worked out the concept, i approve!

T-up.

[Rahn]

fantastic ultimate concept!

[Simo66]

I have modified the ult, lowering the cap to 600 (800 with SotM) and increasing the rate at which his speed is slowed. Mana cost was increased at highest rank. I think as far as damage is concerned, it's more balanced for the other effect it has as a "displacer". Let me know if you think it's been overly nerfed, or if you believe it's still too powerful.

Well, personally, I still think it is slightly too strong, because, from the way I read the skill, the only people stunned at the end, are the ones actually rolling with mossdemar, so all the team that he's on has to do, is simply wait at location "x" have mossdemar run to the enemy team, pop-shrunken head, pick them all up, and deposit them near location "x" so no allies are picked up/stunned they are just waiting there to kill...

Perhaps a way to make the skill slightly weaker, would be at the end, to knock carried allies apart, so the other team can't just have a tempest/pyro/other aoe'er waiting at the end to destroy the whole team...

But still, as far as mana cost goes, this skill seems to be an initiator, so increasing the price doesn't really do much, as moss is only going to be using this skill once per fight anyways... Maybe lowering the damage to 400 or so, and lowering mana cost/increasing CD would make it more balanced...

The reason I think the skill is OP, is because not only does it do alot of damage, the positioning alone is extremely strong. Tempests ulti isn't powerful because it does a dot, it's powerful because it groups a group of enemies in a small space, and keeps them stunned for the duration, and while this skill doesn't do the exact same, it's similar... Also, perhaps having a limit on the damage the skill does per level? Because 600 damage done at ulti lvl 1 (if you can manage to pull em the full duration)

So overall, my suggestion would be to simplify the skill, so that it's just a base mana cost (maybe 150/200/250 or somethinglike that), increase the CD (60s is not too long of a time period) maybe (120/105/90), lower the damage a bit, and seems more balanced

[dandylion]

I don't see the difference between the effect this has and Kraken's Ult really. In fact it seems significantly weaker, simply because it takes so much longer to gain the same effect. I think I like it where it is, unless of course far more people agreed that it's completely out of hand where it is.

At rank 1 the maximum possible damage is only 357, even if you pulled them the entire way you could.

2550 units / 100 = 25.5 X 16 damage = 357

It's not as simple as a "charge+blink+hitR" combo from Kraken to pull off, it takes much more precision and 5.3 seconds to pull off. If you see him coming, you could always stun him, and if he has a shrunken head to counter your stuns, there are numerous other ways to deal with it via items. I won't disagree that it's a strong ult, but it's not nearly of the quality that some others already in the game are capable of.

To take it a step farther, I'll directly relate this skill with Whirlpool...

Whirlpool:

1250 Cast range (with blink at another 1200 range max) = 2450 drag range possible
350 AOE
450 magic damage
-6 armor (after effect)
40% slow (after effect)
300 mana cost
120 second cooldown

Can be used with a blink dagger to pull any enemies to a target location after 2 seconds, maximum of 6 seconds.

Rolling Stone:

2550 potential drag range
200 AOE (up to a max of 600)
Up to 600 physical damage
1 second stun that also disables Mossdemar and allies caught in it
5.3 second duration maximum
Mana cost 500 at full potential
60 second cooldown

[dandylion]

so many votes, so few comments or critiques :( it makes me sad

[Dario93]

nice graphics ;D i like him really but ... HON HAS STOLEN HIS ABILITY AND GAVE IT TO ZEPHYR !!! OMG xD

i hope he will be implemented ^^

[dandylion]

What ability?

[dandylion]

Still curious if Dario was trollin me or not =P I'm too lazy to get on IRC...

[Crixus]

Still curious if Dario was trollin me or not =P I'm too lazy to get on IRC...

he probably means this;


Notes To-Date for Upcoming 0.1.66
Zephyr
- Leap removed, replaced with Gust
* Target a position and click/drag the mouse in a any direction to release the gust of wind from the point you click in the direction the mouse is dragged
* Enemies in the cone are pushed in the direction specified, stunned for 1 second and dealt 75,125,175,250 Magic damage

[dandylion]

Very similar, but targetable and directional. Chronos has the heal too! SOB! Why you be stealin' muh moves S2 :(

[`Abra`]

looks like they used ur move for zephyr's new gust move grats :D

at least seems very similar.

[yyr_]

i love anything that has displacement affects, so t-up from me

[dandylion]

Thanks for the feedback :) I like displacement too, it's seems such a seldom used mechanic, but so incredibly useful and tactical.

@Beastra: It's very similar indeed! Chronos' Rewind is like the opposite of Mossdemar's Rapid Growth too. Chronos has 25% chance to heal 100% of damage taken over time whereas Mossdemar has 100% chance to heal 25% of damage taken over time. Funny stuff >.<

[Crixus]

Thanks for the feedback :) I like displacement too, it's seems such a seldom used mechanic, but so incredibly useful and tactical.

@Beastra: It's very similar indeed! Chronos' Rewind is like the opposite of Mossdemar's Rapid Growth too. Chronos has 25% chance to heal 100% of damage taken over time whereas Mossdemar has 100% chance to heal 25% of damage taken over time. Funny stuff >.<

Why are you mad that they used part of your suggestion? -.-

[dandylion]

Why are you mad that they used part of your suggestion? -.-

Oh I'm not mad, it just more or less means that the hero altogether will never make it in, and not that that's at all unexpected, I'm still glad they're using parts of it, whether or not they actually credit me. I'm sure the ideas were something they came up with independently, but I guess I wouldn't know!

[`Bodoni]

I like it :D

[dandylion]

Always appreciated :)

[dandylion]

I guess we'll see! 1.66 out now!

[dandylion]

Discussion tallyho!

[Swift09]

Love this hero concept...in fact it think i came up with something like this once before..grrrrr...jk. Only beef i have is that this hero would have pretty high str for the 25% regen he gets. THis means he almost has a 25% hp bonus which is pretty hefty. Maybe lower it to 20% regen over 5 sec?

[dandylion]

I've done some thinking about it, and thought it might be a good plan to drop that. With both the defensive and offensive abilities, it's rather strong when compared to things like Chronos. I'll give it some thought for sure.

[dandylion]

Did a little changing to a few numbers. Nothing serious.

[`Abra`]

Did they ever contact you about 1.66 changes similar to your hero's? I'm just curious because it does seem like there your moves more or less.

[dandylion]

I've sent private messages to Nome, asking him to see what's up with the similarities there, but I think he might be away for a little while. He hasn't even added his own suggestion that was implemented into the Hall of Fame yet, so I'm not sure!

[JnC37]

i approve of this hero due to the fact he does a barrel roll

[dandylion]

He does a barrel roll, and there might be a trap in there too O.o

[Spiriax]

Due to this hero being on Popular Suggestions I read through the whole thing. Superb hero! This hero would be both unique AND fun, by the looks of it!

[dandylion]

Thank you! Always appreciated :)

[dandylion]

Do a barrel roll!

[dandylion]

I'd like to get some more discussion about this heroes abilities now that some of his abilities are similar to those that are in the game now (gust and rewind changes) and if that kind of reduces the uniqueness of this hero and his proposed role. Any takers? Any?

[Techno_Mage]

i think how much control over enemy heros movement might be too powerful all on one hero but i like all your ideas individually, also i actually think the heal is lack luster if not for the strength of all his other abilities as armadon/sandwraith have straight 40/20% reduction with added passives, its just the fact that with his other skills being as powerful as they are it seems overkill as you already pull them all together roll over them then deposit them into easy gank position, not to mention along with a kraken/tempest ult his is just overkill(pick up 3 enemies bring them next to tower where they are hit with another AoE ult)

[dandylion]

I won't disagree that having that much control over the placement of your enemies is strong, however I don't think the proposed numbers and effects are too strong. There's enough ways to counter the abilities, enough downsides, and visible signals allowed to make it so that only the ignorant and unprepared are manipulated in this way. It can be a touchy thing to balance, but certainly not impossible.

[dandylion]

Minor changes to offensive portion of passive. Reduced the duration of the effect, 6 seconds was too long.

[MADD411]

T-up, and I love the pictures haha.

[DerBear92]

When I read about the ult I thought about some things. I can't really think of how some other spells deal with this.

-If you roll over someone stunned will they be caught?
-If you roll over someone channeling will they be caught and interupted? allies?
-If you roll into say, chronofield or tempest's ulti, will you pick up people from there?
-If someone you roll onto have a dot and would die while in your roll, what will happend? will they be dmg immune, or where will their corpse "land"?

I like the general idea of the hero though ;)

[dandylion]

When I read about the ult I thought about some things. I can't really think of how some other spells deal with this.

-If you roll over someone stunned will they be caught?
-If you roll over someone channeling will they be caught and interupted? allies?
-If you roll into say, chronofield or tempest's ulti, will you pick up people from there?
-If someone you roll onto have a dot and would die while in your roll, what will happend? will they be dmg immune, or where will their corpse "land"?

I like the general idea of the hero though ;)

Quick answers:
-Yes
-Yes (both cases)
-No (you'd be stopped, you can be stunned/silenced/immobilized while rolling if they were enemies, and those ults would take priority).
-Yes, they can take damage over time while in the roll, and normal damage while in the roll too (zeus ult/veno poison/whatnot). They're still targetable entities, but when they're moving that fast it gets really hard to hit them/click them.

Of course this is all assuming that S2 could make it possible. If limitations were found and exceptions needed to be made, or for balance reasons it needed to be changed, then things would change obviously.

[Starz0rz]

Paint skills.

Gooooooooooooood.

[dandylion]

Haha, thanks.

[Ajhacket]

Great Initiator, like the concept and utility is not limited.

[dandylion]

Thanks! Always appreciated!

[Funnyfun]

first skill can easily be abused. two words. his first plus tempest ult. also his ult is a little weird. I think it'd be better just to roll towards a spot (give a max range) and stun them (and deal damage of course) where they stand without pushing them so you can then combo with your wave too push back the enamies too allies.
your math is off a little. "he traveled 500+350+200+50 = 2000 units." which u then correct in brackets so it is a typo. the tree would travel a total of ~2k units tho. cause it would last 5.333 (times 400avg speed would give total distance) seconds at most before he hit 0 speed. ~2k units is ~200 extra mana at all levels. this is all according to original info (the rate of decrease of speed) because you constintly change the RoD through your math.
When he hit the first unit, his roll speed was 800. It was reduced by 100 every second.
The entire ordeal took 6 seconds, put Mossdemar and his target 2550 units away
The entire ordeal took 7 seconds, put Mossdemar 2550
so what is the RoD? 150? 100? 100 would be 8 seconds after all. also i'm fairly sure it'd be easy too code. but too much too play with. sometimes simple is best. look at pyro. that is why i think the ult should be changed and simplified.
if you want too keep it the same at least use this formula for distance. D=Vi T + 1/2RoD T^2
Rate of Decrease would be a negative number. and time is simply T=V/RoD (only shows how time it takes too lose V amount of velocity so setting V too your initial V (Vi) will tell you when it stops which then put into the other formula gives total distance)
And to state one last time. I think you should simplify your ult.

[dandylion]

The math is probably wrong in the examples. I've changed them pretty much completely from when I originally did. Not sure if I updated the math every time or not.



Example scenario: Mossdemar uses Rolling Stone and catches an enemy immediately. Mossdemar continues to roll for 6 more seconds before he runs out of mana.

Assume max rank.
When he hit the first unit, his roll speed was 800. It was reduced by 150 every second.
all in all, he traveled 800+650+500+350+200+50 = 2550 units.
(2550/100) = 26, 26 X 32 = 832 damage, however the max is 600, so only 600 physical damage was dealt.

The entire ordeal took 6 seconds, put Mossdemar and his target 2550 units away, and dealt 600 damage to the enemy, costing 405 mana.

Another example:
Mossdemar uses rolling stone to gank a unit tower hugging at mid. He rolls from the secret shop, and it takes 2 seconds to hit the enemy hero. After he catches the hero he rolls for 5 more seconds before ending at the rune spawn at the top river (where his teammates are conveniently waiting!).

When he hit the enemy hero, his roll speed was 500 because it took 2 seconds to reach the enemy hero. It was reduced by 150 every second.
All in all, with the enemy hero caught in the roll, he traveled 500+350+200+50 = 2000 units.
(1100/100) = 11, 11 X 32 = 352 damage.

The entire ordeal took 7 seconds, put Mossdemar 2550, and his target 1100 units away (though they ended in the same spot), dealt 352 damage (before armor mitigation), and cost 500 mana. The Rate of Decrease is 150, not 100 like the first example says. Despite that little typo, the math is only an approximation. Technically, you start at 800, so by the end of the first second, you're already down to 650, averaging you to a distance traveled of roughly 725 units in the first second, the second second puts you at roughly 575 more units traveled, so on and so forth.

Saying that "Omg it could be combo'd with tempest ult would be so overpowered" is ridiculous. How many other skills in the game when combo'd with a tempest ult are overkill? You can't even use Vicious Vines or Rolling Stone in conjunction with Tempest's ultimate. I've already actually stated that in the FAQ portion, or elsewhere in the posts. I don't expect you to have read all 5 pages, that's just silly, but they've been answered before.

I don't see what's so complicated about it. The only complicated portion is the numbers. If you think of it from a simple standpoint, it's pretty simple.

Roll, picking up all units as you go, dealing damage and stunning them when you end.

That's pretty simple no? About as simple as...

Create a spinning vortex that catches all enemy units, pulling them towards the center and dealing damage.

There's a lot more mechanical stuff going on behind the scenes, but all you really need to know is the basics...

[SLASHER`]

I saw this guy in the Strength Hero Contest. Nice zephyr! I really like the concept and I have to say that I LOVE the ultimate! The passive is a nice tanking ability and Earth's wrath is a pretty sweet skill. I'm not sure how the contest will play out, but I hope to see this guy in voting!

[dandylion]

Thanks! I saw your version of The Nomad got Zephyr'd too! I thought it was a great hero, I know there are a few that got Zeph'd that left me scratching my head! I hope to see yours in the final pick for voting too!

[Funnyfun]

I'd think the skill + tempest would be op cause they get knocked out and pulled back in over and over. it would somewhat depend on the distance out of the hit range they are tossed. I just think it'd be better too be more instant then sit there spinning awhile. also with the ult. i think the picking people up and growing is the complicated part. remember witch slayer when his pop up made them invulnerable for awhile? well people complained about that. I'm not assuming the people picked up will be invulnerable. but how would the image look? how would they be targeted? and picking up allies can be abused. more so then devo's hook or succubuses mesmerize. I like the concept but I think a lot of it could be simplified.

edit: i know you drew a picture. but i can't see how it'd work actually in a game.

[dandylion]

I'd think the skill + tempest would be op cause they get knocked out and pulled back in over and over. it would somewhat depend on the distance out of the hit range they are tossed. I just think it'd be better too be more instant then sit there spinning awhile. also with the ult. i think the picking people up and growing is the complicated part. remember witch slayer when his pop up made them invulnerable for awhile? well people complained about that. I'm not assuming the people picked up will be invulnerable. but how would the image look? how would they be targeted? and picking up allies can be abused. more so then devo's hook or succubuses mesmerize. I like the concept but I think a lot of it could be simplified.

edit: i know you drew a picture. but i can't see how it'd work actually in a game.

That's more or less left up to what they can do with it. I don't know of the logistics. Obviously if it's something they couldn't possibly make work, then it would have to be changed.

I don't know if you guys are misunderstanding or not, but they can only be hit by the first ability twice, max. Even if they got pulled back into the spinning via the tempest ult, it would only be able to hit them twice (they can't be hit again while stunned from it initially).

[dandylion]

Mossdemar, how I haven't seen thee in some time.

[pullEfjun]

The Paint-pictures is just another reason to vote this yes, awesome hero concept :D

[dandylion]

Thanks! He's one of my favorites from what I've made! He was in the STR hero contest, but I feel he may have been disqualified because he would take some new coding in his ultimate, which they didn't have time to do. I'm not sure, but either way I think it would be a lot of fun!

[Eltharon]

Great hero overall, though I have a question, say:
You use the ulti on a team fight and you get all allied and enemy heroes in it (or less people, doesn?t matter) and u drive the into the woods say 1st tower up and u go into the edge of the map, I assume players would not have space, therefore they would have to stack up, correct? and on top of that it comes the time for trees to respawn, apart from heroes with teleport (ability or item) and maybe leap would be able to get out of there, it would also be very abusive if used with pesti, pyro or other hero with aoe stun, with there 3 chars u can create a stun chain in all the enemy heroes caught in the ultimate. What do you have to say about this?

[dandylion]

All I have to say is in the Q&A section of my post, I adressed issues with the side of the map. Obviously they'd all end up in the same spot, just a bit spread out, just like anywhere else. Trees fall that you roll over, so players that are in the woods either die or have ample time to get out of there.

As far as chaining it with other stuns, I'm not sure why that's an issue. You can already do that with so many other things...

Tempest ult? Have FA volley and pebbles and pyro stun right after. It's the same exact thing a thousand times over. This could totally bone you too, because if the other team has the pebbles/pest/pyro combo, and your team has no disables or single target ones (both allies and enemies are stunned for the same duration at the end) you could be bringing your entire team to the slaughter. It just all depends.

[ItsUrF8M8]

I think this guy looks pretty fun, i think the ult is a pretty great idea!
But I may need some clarity on some stuff.. So this land slide sorta thing pulls the unit back into him? And then if they are running you can sprout a tree to knock them back at you again/block them off? that seems like a little much to me maybe. And how much are the stuns for? or those just to be determined? I think one thing that makes it alright is the fact you can cast in the land slide one.
And then i like the moss thing thats a pretty sweet tank move!
Oh and lastly hows the landslide thing set? like how do you know which way it pushes/pulls or w/e?

T-up im liking what im seeing.

Dracula-
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=103720

[LuvSic]

Eh, how come I never see any mods commenting on these. Just makes you think theyre listening, but wont do anything about it. I doubt any of these heros will be added. But, besides that, great hero.T-up all the way.

[dandylion]

It always pulls towards where you cast it from, not necessarily towards you. You can move around while it's happening. Units caught in it as it moves aren't stunned, so they can attack/cast/whatever. The stun for the vines is stated in the first skill.

[Frago]

Now this is a great work, much more interesting of others

[ItsUrF8M8]

Still dont understand the pulls towards from where you cast.. lol but whatever. I got some ideas.

[dandylion]

Where you stand when you cast the spell. The spell comes from whatever direction you cast it in, towards that point, even if you move. Just think of it as a spot on the ground. When you cast the spell, everything that gets snagged in the wave will end up at that point, whether you move from it or not.

[`Ethelion]

lol the drawing reactions are funny btw thumbs up!

[Pineapple]

First spell:
nice with a knockbacking 'wall'. seems balanced.

Second spell:
why the effect on the enemys? doesnt synnergy with any of his other spells.
ive seen the ms reduction on so many new melee heroes :s its just the new black.

third spell:
pretty much like zeph's gust, think you should exchange it with something similar to this spell.

ultimate:
quite good spell. seems balanced.

no vote yet.

[dandylion]

First spell:
nice with a knockbacking 'wall'. seems balanced.

Second spell:
why the effect on the enemys? doesnt synnergy with any of his other spells.
ive seen the ms reduction on so many new melee heroes :s its just the new black.

third spell:
pretty much like zeph's gust, think you should exchange it with something similar to this spell.

ultimate:
quite good spell. seems balanced.

no vote yet.

I had created this hero before the zephyr changes were even announced, so the idea hadn't been used yet, and I feel it works too well with his skill set to take it off. As far as the effect on enemies.... He's a ganking hero. It's an active ability so after you combo them up, you get the opportunity to move into melee range and keep them near you for at least a bit. I had created his second skill before Chronos' rewind was changed as well (in fact I thought they had perhaps used part of this hero for their changes, but apparently they happened separately from each other) so I modified it a bit by making it active, and giving it an offensive portion to compensate.

[uchizenmaru]

I lol'd his paint works. ;D

[Frozenkex]

i actually did imagine a hero with rolling stone like ability in my mind it was a big hero like behemoth size with spikes, could be even biggest hero in game, why because when you roll over behemoth and youre small it would look ridiculous haha. Really good concept.

[dandylion]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

[Tanlash]

Ahh this hero looks like fun, some new interesting concepts for abilities (I like, I like!)

T-up from me

- Also, random here... The drawings somewhat remind me of Rukia's drawings from Bleach ^.^

[dandylion]

I've watched a grand total of one episode of bleach ever, and I'm not sure who Rukia is =P But thanks!

The whole hero is built around being able to use your moves in different combinations, for maximum fun time!

[MADD411]

bump

[MANTOWN]

That is a wonderful Combo of Respect, although needs channeling for that ES' wall that drags them in to you... Great Idea I must say

[shitsexotic1]

Finally a popular suggestion for a role that needs heroes that isnt over complicated. T up for sure if you have time check out my comment for my suggestion to fill the niche

[C4ler]

Ooops this comment

[MrSnowman]

I want this hero in the next vote. Should be in the current.

[dandylion]

I had actually submitted it for the strength hero contest, but it was removed because the ultimate wasn't something they were ready to code for.