How to Own Pubs with Magebane

[R4GE]

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/37/icon_128.jpg
I saw a guide on this forum that i totally disagreed with most of what he said, so I decided to make my own.

NOTE: This is a guide that will work only if you have basic skills (lasthitting, denying, farming, ganking and basic awareness of how the game works and its mechanics). Also this guide is aimed at Non-EM play.

Also feel free to say how correct I am in your comments and how you completely 100% agree :p or criticize me how I don't understand the hero and fail in any way to explain his use :(.

First I'll get the build out of the way:

Skills:

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/37/ability1_128.jpg

Mana Combustion:
Burns 16/32/48/64 mana and does 20/40/60/80% of mana burned in damage. Very useful skill - especially combined with your ultimate and geometer's bane (3x mana burn)
PASSIVE

http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/37/ability2_128.jpg
Flash:
Your average blink - except tiny cooldown makes it possible to blink in blink out very quickly - unless u blink onto a disabler/stunner. Also, note it gives you HUGE magic armour to you, and a smaller, but still notable, magic armour boost to the teammates around you.
CD: 12/10/8/6s
ACTIVE
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/37/ability3_128.jpg

Master of the Mantra:
Decreases cast speed and does damage on the amount of mana spells use.
Personally, I normally prefer stats as the radius is waaaaay too small to make any difference and the amount of damage it does is negligible because they will generally not be casting enough high mana spells near you to rather get this than stats, which are a permanent boost to damage, survivability, everything - overall stats are alot more useful IN MOST CASES. Unless you are going against either casters with aoe hard-to-hit stuns (think Torturer/Pyromancer) or mana intensive spells (think Witch Slayer/Hellbringer) I would normally get stats instead.
PASSIVE
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/heroes/37/ability4_128.jpg

Mana Rift:
Ministuns the target for 0.1s and does damage equal to 0.5/0.85/1.1 times the amount of mana the target is missing in a 500 (im not sure about the radius)aoe radius. Many misconceptions about this skill. in my opinion one of the best ultimates in the game. Why you ask me? Lategame 1.1 x the mana pool of an int character (presuming you have burned or they have used all their mana is probably around 1k - 1.7k mana at level 25 for a pyro or another heavy nuker/disabler with high int gain) in an AOE!!!! This skill can be used to take out someone NEXT TO the target aswell as the person you are using it on. Also can be used to disrupt spells eg. Succubus' hold beacause of the ministun.
ACTIVE
CD:120/100/80s


The Build:
1.Flash
2.Mana Combustion
3.Mana Combustion
4.Flash
5.Mana Combustion
6.Flash
7.Mana Combustion
8.Flash
9.Mana Rift
10.Stats/Master of the Mantra
11.Mana Rift
12.[StatsMaster of the Mantra
13.Stats/Master of the Mantra
14.Stats/Master of the Mantra
15.Stats
16.Mana Rift
17.Stats
18.Stats
19.Stats
20.Stats
21.Stats
22.Master of the Mantra/Stats
23.Master of the Mantra/Stats
24.Master of the Mantra/Stats
25.Master of the Mantra/Stats

Justification:
Flash is taken first just in case you get into a tight spot either at the rune spawn OR if your lane is up against a strong first blooding combo. Mana Combustion is better overall though, as it gives great harassing abilities and extra damage, so should be maxed before flash. Yes, I anticipate everyone who is going to say MADNESS, at lv4 stats are better than flash. You shouldn't need stats because you should, hopefully be laning with a babysitter, who you can even first blood with where flash will help you alot, by chasing alot better, if not, then it will help you escape better with the extra magic armor and lower cooldown. Mana rift does tiny damage early game, even casters have mana pools of around 400 - 500 max before level 9. Personally, I prefer stats to master of the mantra, as it gives better rounded improvements and is alot more reliable than master of the mantra, I would rather kill someone straight off than rely on them casting a high mana spell for me to get the kill. However, master of the mantra can be extremely useful against heavy nukers with high mana costs, for example Pyromancer or Witch Slayer, who use up a huge amount of mana in short bursts. Also, master of the mantra hinders casters like Torturer/Pyromancer who have aoe stuns that are reasonably hard to lane by slowing their cast speed by quite a large amount, letting you and your teammates dodge their spells much more easily.

Items and Strategies:

Starting A:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_PretendersCrown.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_DuckBoots.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_RunesOfTheBlight.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MinorTotem.jpg

Be careful about this build, only take it if you are confident of your lane staying and last hitting and are laning with a strong partner, who will protect/heal you in the lane, get the team courier to bring you more regen or the next items if you are still in your lane. Also, you could get a logger's hatchet instead of duck boots and pretender's crown or straight after you get enough gold from the outpost shop. Finish your soulscream ring.

Starting B:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_LoggersHatchet.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_GroundFamiliar.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MinorTotem.jpg(http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_HealthPotion.jpg OR http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_RunesOfTheBlight.jpg)

Very often, in pubs, no one will buy a courier as apparently, according to the 900 PSR "pr0" couriers are a waste of money :/ and you, even though you are carrying, will have to buy the courier. Well, since he thinks he is so useless, dont share the courier with him. The logger's hatchet is there to help you last hit, as you will not have enough stats from other items with the meager amount of gold left after the courier to last hit effectively without one. Get a regen item of your choice, either Runes of Blight or a Health Potion - whichever you prefer, although personally I would go with the Runes of Blight because if you get harassed, which you probably will, its not great to waste a health potion when you have lost 200-300 health and are in danger of getting nuked to death.

Starting C:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_PretendersCrown.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MinorTotem.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MinorTotem.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_MinorTotem.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_RunesOfTheBlight.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_HealthPotion.jpg

This is another build that I have been advised by alot of people to put into the guide, so I have and it is probably a more efficient way of using your starting gold. Feel free to finish a soulscream ring once you have the money and always keep some health regen on you by using the team courier.


Cores:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Brutalizer.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Steamboots.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_WhisperingHelm.jpg

This is where my personal build gets controversial. First, I would get my courier to bring me sufficient regen until I had 500 gold where I would get marchers from my courier and then I would stack up 1500 gold to buy a halberd - which can be quite hard if you are not so proficient at last hitting or have a strong dual lane against you - so feel free to buy a logger's hatchet to help you get there. Also, you could, if you are having serious farming problems, get a bolstering armband before your halberd. After your halberd you get a serious damage boost and you should start getting a few kills in your lane, also, if your team wants you to, you can take part in some ganks, but not before you get a halberd, or your damage will be very small and the other team will probably try and kill you to stop your farming and stop you carrying your team in lategame. After this, finish your brutalizer with the recipe and start doing some serious ganking, where you can start getting some serious gold and experience. After you have rushed your brutalizer, you should finish your steam boots and leave them on strength. Be careful about trusting your courier with more expensive items, should he be accidentally seen by a player or his wards and killed, so that you lose all your items. After this, a whispering helm is probably your best option, as it will give you lifesteal and build into Symbol of Rage, an extremely strong item. However, the reason for getting this so early, over Geometer's Bane, is that you can use it to stack ancients. Dominate a creep, a strong one would be better, the best is Vagabond Leader, because he has a ranged aoe to pull them all from a distance, and make him stand next to your ancients, located near the secret shop on your side. Then, like pulling normal creeps from in a jungle, pull the ancients and stack them 3-5 times, then kill them when you are level 15+, with some help from teammates if you need it. Repeat this method again and again as it gives you tonnes of gold and exp in a short amount of time.

Luxury:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_ManaBurn2.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_LifeSteal4.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Evasion.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_PostHaste.jpghttp://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Frostburn.png

By now, it should be getting quite simple, you will probably have alot of kills and because it is mid-late game, you should start coming into your own, because you are probably one of the best carries at the moment. Geometer's Bane is extremely strong on magebane because it increases your auto-attack damage by 66% while both illusions are attacking but even more importantly, your mana burn is 3 times as fast, because the illusions burn mana aswell. Just blink in after your initiator, pop your Geometer's Bane and start causing mayhem in the enemy's ranks. Also, the cooldown is relatively low, considering that the illusions last 30 seconds. Symbol of Rage is the next item that you should be aiming for, it increases your survivability alot and will make you outcarry the opponents carry if used properly. It gives you a large health boost from the strength bonus and the activation of it, combined with your huge dps, can turn the tide of a 1 on 1 fight, or even a whole 5 on 5 team battle. Wingbow will then make you unkillable, it gives you a 30% dodge which makes your survivability ridiculous, combined with your blink and symbol of rage. It also gives you attack speed and agility. No reason to ignore this item, it is an overall great item. When buying a wingbow, try and buy the snake bracelet first, the dancing blade second, and the steamstaff last. Lastly, frostburn (the image has yet to be loaded onto the Heroes of Newerth site) is pretty much a cleanup tool. If you have all your items you will be owning so hard that either the game will be over or you can solo their whole team by yourelf. This item gives you a slow on attack, turning you into Arachna,so that no one can escape you. Lastly, if you really have enough cash to just throw away, and you have all other items, sell the the gloves of the swift and bolstering armband from your steam boots by dismantling it (put the boots in stash and right click on them) and make post haste, for no other reason than the stats on steam boots become negligible and movement speed is better lategame.

Tiered out (meaning that you cannot, even if you had infinite money, have a better inventory than this):
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_ManaBurn2.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_LifeSteal4.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Evasion.jpg
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_PostHaste.jpghttp://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Brutalizer.jpghttp://heroes-newerth.com/wp-content/myimages/Frostburn.png


Situational Items and Items to be Avoided at All Costs:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_ElderParasite.jpgAVOID: Many people think this item is great on magebane because it increases his attack speed and thus does more mana burn, yes it does this, but makes you EVEN MORE squishy than you already are, which means you will fall even if they manage to land just one stun on you that lasts 2 or more seconds.
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Splash.jpgSITUATIONAL: This item could be used but only if you decide to rush it instead of a brutalizer, if you think that you would rather farm your late game items instead of ganking to get them, I prefer ganking because it is more fun, but more so because it helps your team while hindering the the other team. However, farming is probably a safer option and if you are not confident of your ganking skills, then a runed axe is probably a better choice. Also, if you are falling behind in levels and will probably get killed when ganking, runed axe is a very good option because of your huge mobility, so you can farm very effectively, even against strong ganking teams.
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_ManaBurn1.jpgEXTREMELY SITUATIONAL: Many people think that stacking mana burn would be great. Guess what, nullfire and your ability don't stack. Avoid this item, unless you really really really need to get the purge for heroes like Jeraziah, Predator or Hammerstorm and none of the other people on your team won't/can't get it. Just be warned, the mana burn doesn't stack.



NO ad hominem arguments please (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem).
Dont call me/other people noobs.
Especially regarding PSR.
Thanks, hope you enjoyed the guide.

[Extreme_Cake]

Master of The Mantra isn't useless.

[Skull4er]

i once owned some pubbys with succubus that carried a mock + charged hammer.
it was awesome! :D

[Blastin]

I'd say a hatchet is a better starting item than a pretenders crown.

[Flair]

Both your starting builds are awful.
a) is awful because Soulscream Ring is tons of wasted gold on minimal stats, compared to other solutions.
b) is awful because you've got no regen or consumables and will be harrassed hard.

And Master of the Mantra can delay casts with enough for some proper chainstunning with Brutalizer. You probably don't notice before you're on the receiving edge, as a Pyromancer, for example.

[awayish`]

nice ownage man, those 12xx noobs stand no chance

[R4GE]

Both your starting builds are awful.
a) is awful because Soulscream Ring is tons of wasted gold on minimal stats, compared to other solutions.
b) is awful because you've got no regen or consumables and will be harrassed hard.

And Master of the Mantra can delay casts with enough for some proper chainstunning with Brutalizer. You probably don't notice before you're on the receiving edge, as a Pyromancer, for example.

You use a courier to bring you consumables. Soulscream ring IS useful and the stats are not "minimal". Personally, I dont like master of the mantra, i said in the guide that if u like to it, take it. I dont like it unfortunately, and i doubt u'll change my mind.

[R4GE]

I'd say a hatchet is a better starting item than a pretenders crown.

Ive now put that as an option into my guide. Thanks for the input. :D

[Flair]

You use a courier to bring you consumables. Soulscream ring IS useful and the stats are not "minimal". Personally, I dont like master of the mantra, i said in the guide that if u like to it, take it. I dont like it unfortunately, and i doubt u'll change my mind.
Whether you like MotM, I don't care much for. It's not a huge loss, but the I wouldn't value the stats higher than it.
However, Soulscream Ring is an absolutely horrible first buy, everyone with a clue will tell you that. You're wasting 125 gold on a recipe, that grants you what a minor totem grants you.

Courier's never bad, but you're going to be harrassed so much without any consumables, that you'll have a terrible start on a hero that already has a terrible early game.

Also, you're trying to make fun off 900 PSR'ers? Why? They're bad players?
If you had a decent PSR, one to back up your arrogance, it still would be a moronic insult, but when you're sporting 1300, you should shut it.
You're below average, you shouldn't be making guides to begin with.

[Izzachar]

Often you have a baby sitter in a pub...? More often the "babysitter" in the pub steals your farm.

[Shwin]

I lol at your 1300 PSR (if that's really what it is) and you insinuating that you'll have a 'babysitter' in a pub.

I normally go hatchet, 2 sets of tangos, and a pretender's crown. not sure exactly what that adds up to, but if I have cash left over I'll get a duck boots/minor totems to fill out inv slots.

Also, I don't like brutalizer on any hero, it's too much luck. I like (instead) normally shieldbreaker (or EP if I'm not in danger of dying often)

[Ernie888]

I think so Shwin, anyone with a clue would NEVER advise someone to buy a recipe with starting gold. The stats / bonus per gold is simply not worth it.

You only need the recipe when you haven't got enough room to carry everything and still then you can be sly and drop your tangoes and mana pots behind your tower.

[akitoes]

Very good guide by a very skilled player:cool:

Very good guide by a very skilled player:cool:

I hope this was sarcasm.

What magebane needs is plenty of runes of blight, minor totems, a mana battery, a shield, and a hatchet. (not necessarily in that order.)

A soulscream ring costs 510 gold, giving you 3+3+6= 12 total stat points.

4 minor totems cost 212 gold, yet give you 4+4+4=12 total stat points as well.

My usual starting build is two runes of blight, four minor totems, and a mana battery for the mindgames.

[akitoes]

It's a very good guide for me.
I followed his build and got bloodbath so it must work right ?
On paper it may be bad but in game it works and that's what matters. ;)

It's a very good guide for me.
I followed his build and got bloodbath so it must work right ?
On paper it may be bad but in game it works and that's what matters. ;)

True. I once stomped a pub with a witchslayer with 2x doombringer, steamboots, shrunken head, elder parasite, and behemoth's heart. (not kidding, played in dota)

Such a good build and I got 45 kills so it must work right?

On paper it may sound bad but in game it works and that's what matters. ;)

NOT

Obviously, if that is the only build you've tried doesn't mean it is the best build, even if you got a bloodbath. There are far more optimal ways to play magebane. Getting soulscream ring first thing is not one of the ways.

[akitoes]

I don't see whats bad about soulscream ring, it gives damage + armor, health and mana

I don't see whats bad about soulscream ring, it gives damage + armor, health and mana

It is a great item. However it costs too much for its worth, you're much better off getting 4 minor totems (212 gold) which give the same number of stats as 1 soulscream ring (510 gold). At least at the beginning of the game. Later on, sell those totems to get a couple rings.

[trippymcgee]

i'm sorry but. anyone who completes soulscream, bracers or talismans as a starting item is a complete idiot and should kill themselves. also don't write 'ownage' guides.
tl;dr but i did read the last paragraph, pretty terrible imo.

continue playing easy mode and own up them pubs yoooo.

[Blue_Aura]

I personally love starting with a shield and preferably manaburn (depending on the enemy hero's picked) so you can start burning your enemies at level one if they come to close, generally people wont use thier skills that early. Sheild will keep the damage to you low from auto's or the creeps.

I also grab two regen items at least then buy the hatchet from the side shop =).

And guys, stop flaming the guy, let him finish his guide and provide him with helpful/constructive suggestions.

Good start mate. Listen to the tips of the community and I think it'll turn out great.

[HONYoda]

Ur a baddie.

Poor man's shield 250g, health ring 350g. Go to your lane. Farm up some cash get logger's hatchet. Start pwning.

Flash, then two mana combust, win game.

[R4GE]

jesus christ...i just tried to make a guide to help people and this is what i get...lol @ (most of) hon community...

Thanks Akitoes and Blue_Aura though for a "silver lining," lets say...

btw mr IKNOWITALLEVERYONEELSESUCKSANDSHOULDDIEINAHOLE aka Zaigon im not arrogant and neither have i insulted lower psr people because i, for one know that psr is a guideline and if i was 5000 psr i wudnt b arrogant towards people unlike someone who i won't name *cough* Zaigon *cough*. Also, about the "moronic" comment, i go to a very well rated school so hard luck.

i just wrote out what worked for me and hey, it works, like Akitoes says.

[elevator13]

Master of the Mantra is far from useless. If you're even near enemy int heroes, they'll be taking several hundred Magic damage for even using their spells. On high mana cost heroes like Plague Rider, this can be lethal. The -cast speed is also good for letting allies dodge long cast-time spells like Pyro/Tort stuns and Voodoo's Cursed Ground.

[Flair]

jesus christ...i just tried to make a guide to help people and this is what i get...lol @ (most of) hon community...

Thanks Akitoes and Blue_Aura though for a "silver lining," lets say...

btw mr IKNOWITALLEVERYONEELSESUCKSANDSHOULDDIEINAHOLE aka Zaigon im not arrogant and neither have i insulted lower psr people because i, for one know that psr is a guideline and if i was 5000 psr i wudnt b arrogant towards people unlike someone who i won't name *cough* Zaigon *cough*. Also, about the "moronic" comment, i go to a very well rated school so hard luck.

i just wrote out what worked for me and hey, it works, like Akitoes says.
Thing is, you're being counterproductive.
If anyone read your guide, followed it step-to-step, you wouldn't have done them a favor.

I don't know a terrible lot about cars, so I'm not gonna make a guide concerning what car people should buy. I should shut the fog up instead of being a wise-guy about something I know nothing about.

I could've been nicer, I'll admit that. But you didn't even get it the first time and you needed truckloads of people agreeing with me before it went through. Problem is, if you never got how wrong you were, you would probably continue making bad guides.

Someone had to tell you, you can hate me all you want, but I did everyone a favor.

Edit: About your arrogance, you were the one starting it:

according to the 900 PSR "pr0" couriers are a waste of money
There's a lot of other stuff wrong about the guide and because Akitoes, who I suspect for being a troll having fun or one of your friends, did well with your guide, it doesn't mean it's great.
Because I'm able to win Le Mans in a homemade soapbox car, it doesn't mean it's a fast car.

[Izzachar]

jesus christ...i just tried to make a guide to help people and this is what i get...lol @ (most of) hon community...

Thanks Akitoes and Blue_Aura though for a "silver lining," lets say...

btw mr IKNOWITALLEVERYONEELSESUCKSANDSHOULDDIEINAHOLE aka Zaigon im not arrogant and neither have i insulted lower psr people because i, for one know that psr is a guideline and if i was 5000 psr i wudnt b arrogant towards people unlike someone who i won't name *cough* Zaigon *cough*. Also, about the "moronic" comment, i go to a very well rated school so hard luck.

i just wrote out what worked for me and hey, it works, like Akitoes says.

You can't write a guide how to own pubs with a hero and say that you need a babysitter, or assume that ppl that read this guide will. Cause in pups babysitters do not exist in 1200-1600 psr brackets. So writing a guide that assumes that is worthless for almost all players.

[siefat]

Master of the Mantra:
Increases cast speed and does damage on the amount of mana spells use.
USELESS, the radius is waaaaay too small to make any difference and the amount of damage it does is negligible because they will generally not be casting enough high mana spells near you to rather get this than stats, which are a permanent boost to damage, survivability, everything - overall stats are alot more useful.
PASSIVE

it slows the cast speed :blac:

[Xitras]

People with 1366 psr shouldnt write guides

[Lolololage]

To add to the soulscream debate, think about it. For the cost if the recipe you get 1xAGI, 1xSTR, 1xINT, 125 gold, i believe.

1xMinor totem, 53 gold, provides same starting stats, you dont need the item slots at start and it can be turned into a power supply, which no hero should be without. This leaves you with almost enough for a set of runes of blight. The totem can also be sold, meaning that for the loss of 26 gold, you gain the ability to have consumables faster.

You advocate couriers so much, why not bring yourself the recipe and start with regen in lane.

You also say your not gonna always get the farm due to being in a hard lane, one other thing thats gonna happen is your going to get unlucky and double stunned sometimes, maybe you wont die. But with your starting build, if you lose hp before those first 2-3 creep kills, its a trip to the fountain for you.

In conclusion, buy a health potion instead of the soulscream recipe, ~400 hp on demand is better than +1 to all stats. Use your courier and bring the recipe.






Ive been looking for magebane builds, not sure if i agree with stats over mantra, but i like the idea of rushing a halbard. I've been having problems dealing enough damage in the early game, dont know why i didnt think about it.


Lastly, could someone post up the effect mantra has on casting times, the numbers dont make a lot of sense for the lamen, and i think putting some hard examples of casting times (on someone like pyromancer or thunderbringer maybe) would help settle the debate easily.

[R4GE]

To add to the soulscream debate, think about it. For the cost if the recipe you get 1xAGI, 1xSTR, 1xINT, 125 gold, i believe.

1xMinor totem, 53 gold, provides same starting stats, you dont need the item slots at start and it can be turned into a power supply, which no hero should be without. This leaves you with almost enough for a set of runes of blight. The totem can also be sold, meaning that for the loss of 26 gold, you gain the ability to have consumables faster.

You advocate couriers so much, why not bring yourself the recipe and start with regen in lane.

You also say your not gonna always get the farm due to being in a hard lane, one other thing thats gonna happen is your going to get unlucky and double stunned sometimes, maybe you wont die. But with your starting build, if you lose hp before those first 2-3 creep kills, its a trip to the fountain for you.

In conclusion, buy a health potion instead of the soulscream recipe, ~400 hp on demand is better than +1 to all stats. Use your courier and bring the recipe.






Ive been looking for magebane builds, not sure if i agree with stats over mantra, but i like the idea of rushing a halbard. I've been having problems dealing enough damage in the early game, dont know why i didnt think about it.


Lastly, could someone post up the effect mantra has on casting times, the numbers dont make a lot of sense for the lamen, and i think putting some hard examples of casting times (on someone like pyromancer or thunderbringer maybe) would help settle the debate easily.

thanks Lolololage, some good advice instead of flaming and ill try and put it in my guide :)



Master of the Mantra:
Increases cast speed and does damage on the amount of mana spells use.
USELESS, the radius is waaaaay too small to make any difference and the amount of damage it does is negligible because they will generally not be casting enough high mana spells near you to rather get this than stats, which are a permanent boost to damage, survivability, everything - overall stats are alot more useful.
PASSIVE

it slows the cast speed :blac:

Sorry that was a typo, thanks for pointing it out


Thing is, you're being counterproductive.
If anyone read your guide, followed it step-to-step, you wouldn't have done them a favor.

I don't know a terrible lot about cars, so I'm not gonna make a guide concerning what car people should buy. I should shut the fog up instead of being a wise-guy about something I know nothing about.

I could've been nicer, I'll admit that. But you didn't even get it the first time and you needed truckloads of people agreeing with me before it went through. Problem is, if you never got how wrong you were, you would probably continue making bad guides.

Someone had to tell you, you can hate me all you want, but I did everyone a favor.

Edit: About your arrogance, you were the one starting it:

There's a lot of other stuff wrong about the guide and because Akitoes, who I suspect for being a troll having fun or one of your friends, did well with your guide, it doesn't mean it's great.
Because I'm able to win Le Mans in a homemade soapbox car, it doesn't mean it's a fast car.


I have never seen Akitoes before and according to him, the guide works, so dont flame when you fail to justify it is wrong/doesnt work, also, its not a bad guide, but it is not perfect. Lets be honest, the fact that you got a soulscream recipe instead of a minor totem is not going to be gamebreaking - but i'll put it into my guide (the minor totem way of starting).

Im not mocking lower psr players, im saying that people have a misconception about couriers in pub games and are stubborn about it (alot of the time).

[Uber_LOL]

I for one am in the same clan as slip_slops. He's okay for noobs like us and he does quite well with magebane sometimes. But he shouldn't, under any circumstances leave out mantra and include a soulscream ring instead of totems which are STAPLE for almost all heroes when leaving the pool.

So as a friend:

change soulscream build to soemthing like

hatchet or shield X1
minor totems X3
runes of blight X1
hp pot X1

Also dont get a courier even if no one else will you shouldnt sacrifice liek that if yorue carrying and alot of times people arent THAAT selfish in pubs as to not share theirs.

Finally, make a personal build of ignoring mantra then another build where mantra is included perhaps not even at levels 12-15 but earlier as alot of people clearer see its worth (including me).

[Flair]

I have never seen Akitoes before and according to him, the guide works, so dont flame when you fail to justify it is wrong/doesnt work, also, its not a bad guide, but it is not perfect. Lets be honest, the fact that you got a soulscream recipe instead of a minor totem is not going to be gamebreaking - but i'll put it into my guide (the minor totem way of starting).

Im not mocking lower psr players, im saying that people have a misconception about couriers in pub games and are stubborn about it (alot of the time).
Fail to justify?
I explained why it was bad in my very first post.
Then people repeated what I said and all of a sudden, it was correct.

Gamebreaking or not, a guide's supposed to be perfect or at least close to.
Your advice was bad, I told you why and I suppose the blow was too big for your ego.
I already gave you enough reasons as to why you shouldn't continue this guide, let alone make one to begin with.

I believe people deserve a proper guide or none if such one can't be found, your ego or scream for fame amongst the community isn't any more important than that, because let's be honest with eachother, that's what this is about.
If it was a genuine offer to help people in need, you would've stopped when I and 9/10 of the other readers had been disagreeing.

And about the PSR discussion, you used the 900 PSR remark to put a fictional idiot on a pedestal and mock him for not wanting a courier, refering to 900 PSR'ers as bad players. I don't disagree, there's a fat chance they are. But same goes for 1300 rated players and no one belonging within that PSR-range should be making guides all together.

Now, I'm truck-trampling all over you, but I'm just trying to make the truth hit you like a brickwall to your head. You're not doing anyone a favor by making guides, other than your deluded ego.

There's other people who's been harsh and much more arrogant than I, but I'm taking it, I've come closest to the truth.

Bottom-line:
Don't make guides.

[R4GE]

Fail to justify?
I explained why it was bad in my very first post.
Then people repeated what I said and all of a sudden, it was correct.

Gamebreaking or not, a guide's supposed to be perfect or at least close to.
Your advice was bad, I told you why and I suppose the blow was too big for your ego.
I already gave you enough reasons as to why you shouldn't continue this guide, let alone make one to begin with.

I believe people deserve a proper guide or none if such one can't be found, your ego or scream for fame amongst the community isn't any more important than that, because let's be honest with eachother, that's what this is about.
If it was a genuine offer to help people in need, you would've stopped when I and 9/10 of the other readers had been disagreeing.

And about the PSR discussion, you used the 900 PSR remark to put a fictional idiot on a pedestal and mock him for not wanting a courier, refering to 900 PSR'ers as bad players. I don't disagree, there's a fat chance they are. But same goes for 1300 rated players and no one belonging within that PSR-range should be making guides all together.

Now, I'm truck-trampling all over you, but I'm just trying to make the truth hit you like a brickwall to your head. You're not doing anyone a favor by making guides, other than your deluded ego.

There's other people who's been harsh and much more arrogant than I, but I'm taking it, I've come closest to the truth.

Bottom-line:
Don't make guides.

lol


The guide works. So far one person has tried it out and he said it works. It works for me, it works for other people. Other people have not flamed, they have given advice that I have put into the guide. Thank you to those people. You are slightly weird because you seem as if you think you have known me for years and know my personality etc. Then you make a psychological essay about my ego. Good luck to you in life - you'll need it.


Zaigon, don't post on my thread again please - it's really not helping anyone.

[Flair]

lol


The guide works. So far one person has tried it out and he said it works. It works for me, it works for other people. Other people have not flamed, they have given advice that I have put into the guide. Thank you to those people. You are slightly weird because you seem as if you think you have known me for years and know my personality etc. Then you make a psychological essay about my ego. Good luck to you in life - you'll need it.


Zaigon, don't post on my thread again please - it's really not helping anyone.
I could go codex and Plated Greaves on Madman.Iif I owned a pub, it didn't mean it was a great item build.

As for no one else flaming you, I'd personally consider it quite an insult if people told me I was an idiot, told me to kill myself, told me I was a baddie or told me my guide was great for stomping 1200-rated players. That was just some of the trashing directed at your guide.

And as for posting in your guide, I'm currently helping many more people than you guide ever would if I hadn't. Count on me continuing as long as your guide is still up and as long as you still mistake this guide for being of any benefit to anyone else than yourself.

[Gabula]

I start with:

*Hatchet
*2 runes
*stats (minor totems)

Then in lane i get

*Iron buckler
*Lifetube

I then get a vit booster if its going well, pick up boots and keep farming and core should look like this :

*Steamboots str
*Helm of the black legion
*Bracer (optional)

Then build straight into brutalizer, should be owning face by now. Whispering helm for lifesteal which becomes symbol of rage later, but before that i get wingbow OR geometers bane, not both. The game is probably over by now.

[Shwin]

I think so Shwin, anyone with a clue would NEVER advise someone to buy a recipe with starting gold. The stats / bonus per gold is simply not worth it.

You only need the recipe when you haven't got enough room to carry everything and still then you can be sly and drop your tangoes and mana pots behind your tower.

Yeah. Getting Crown + Duckboots then either tangos/healthpot/2 minor totems is better than finishing the soulscream ring as a starting item.

[KEENGAMER]

lol


The guide works. So far one person has tried it out and he said it works. It works for me, it works for other people. Other people have not flamed, they have given advice that I have put into the guide. Thank you to those people. You are slightly weird because you seem as if you think you have known me for years and know my personality etc. Then you make a psychological essay about my ego. Good luck to you in life - you'll need it.


Zaigon, don't post on my thread again please - it's really not helping anyone.

You wrote an awful guide.

[ElementUser]

Master of the Mantra slows enemy cast speed by -15%/-20%/-25%/-30%

Using the formula Cast Time = 1 / (1 + Cast Speed), Magebane makes the enemy take 1.176x /1.25x / 1.33x / 1.429x longer to cast their spells (unless the cast point of the enemy's spell is 0, then it's unaffected).

And I didn't even get to the damage portion of Master of the Mantra yet. Anyway it's not a terrible skill


I saw a guide on this forum that i totally disagreed with most of what he said, so I decided to make my own.

That's what he's doing, so make sure to keep the criticism constructive please. If he doesn't want to change something you can't force him to, it's his guide after all.

[Izzachar]

I agree with Zaigon. I tested something similar to this and I had the worst game as magebane ever, does that mean the guide sucks now then? Also you have around 1300 psr. This means that you loose more then you win. Why should anyone take advice from someone looses that often. It means that something you do makes your game go to ****. And don't blame your teams, player team skill IS closely related to psr. I have a **** account I made 1-2 weeks ago where I test new heroes and item builds and do not pick hero based on team and that account is 1450 psr. My main account is 1550-1600 and I used this since starting playing hon and I never played dota even then I was never under 1400psr as a total noob to this game. Half the time I feel I dont know exactly whats going on or whats the best move but Im still higher psr then you and that really bothers me taking advice from you. You must do something very wrong team wise to get that low. Its like taking economic advice from someone living on the street. He could have good advice but generally not..

I'm gonna be more constructive.

No regen? Just remove those parts of the guide. Its no alternative starting without regen. Any competent person seeing a magebane without regen in the lane is gonna harass him so he can't farm and has to leave lane. no g means you will never buy that halberd. Also your items give bad early stats. Your courier can bring you regen, but it could bring you the items as well.

No hatchet? Magebane needs farm. Hatchet helps a lot. Pays for itself very fast. Should not be an option, even if you are a pro last hitter it gives 32% more dmg in jungle which really helps.

No shield? You cannot assume that you will have a good lane partner in pubs. So if you wanna make it in pubs your strategy gotta include what to do when you get a bad lane partner. Shield helps the harass but it also gives you an option of hitting jungle around lv 5-6 and if you creep pull a bit (you should always be short lane) you can be there even sooner. Lifesteal is not needed on magebane to jungle at that level like this with hatchet and upgraded shield.

I do get lifesteal later, but only the 900g item to start with as its enough to keep you going. And only if other team members push the lanes hard and my only alternative is jungle farm. As about 30% of your damage early-mid game is from mana burn lifesteal is not optimal for magebane.

You can go courier, I do this if I think Im up against a lane thats really bad for me and I might need extra regen or whatever else that might be needed so I dont need to leave lane until I can go farm jungle. But magebane does fine without a courier and thats 200g saved even if no one shares one.

Without courier and in a bad lane I usually do not go to fountain until maybe lv 8-10 and that is cause I feel I'm really starting to want boots and by that time I often also creeped so aggressive my hp needs it. Also flashing+running from the creep spawn closest to fountain to pick up items is not a huge waste of time so it doesnt warrant a courier I think.

If I get a kill very early in the lane and get low on hp, I TP fountain, buy boots and run + flash back. Doesn't take that long and its cheaper then buying the regen and get it from courier.

Courier is not that needed on magebane.

If I feel that I wanna be in fights sooner I go master of mantra earlier. If I feel the only way we can win is me getting nicely farmed to late game I go burn+flash maxed asap to be able to be almost ungankable.

Flash maxed does not help as much as mantra do in team fights early game.

I gotta say though that rushing brutalizer sounds as a very good idea. And I'm gonna try that a few times and see how it goes.

[Varraid]

I dont see the point in flaming a guide you dont agree with, sure people have mentioned the soulscream ring to minor totems, and he said he'd add them. Telling him hes stupid is absolutely useless, if you dont agree with the guide then move on or do exactly what he did, make your own with your point of view. To me theres really a big gap in between right and wrong builds in this game, by no means should anyone really follow a guide to the tee as is. Its a GUIDE its there to show you the water, not make you drink it. To me unless your items completely contradict the role your team needs you to be, there is no right or wrong itemization. You've all got your opinions, doesnt make them right. Although i do agree, id never buy soulscream at start, totems ftw. :)

And sure some games id take stats over mantra, no question, if no enemy has a slowable spell, and low mana cost, stats all the way.

As for my contructive critisism OP, how can you say that Mantra's radius is bad, 600 is....quite large. As magebane your never out run due to blink and you pretty much ALWAYS have the ability to stand right next to the target, or however far you wish to be, click where desired. The synergy between blink and mantra is unquestioned, or so i thought. Any enemy that you want mantra on, you will always have the ablity to put it on them. TL,DR

[R4GE]

I am slowly changing the guide to fit what you guys are telling me.

Thanks for the constructive criticism.

PS: Zaigon, I'm just going to completely ignore your posts now.

[R4GE]

Guide is pretty much finished!! I'll keep trying to change it to adapt to what you guys tell me, and if you have any more ideas for situational items/items to avoid section let me know!!

[Mopealot]

You don't need a monkey to get your items. Try to use the Side shop.

Usually I start ( with any hero ) with these Items:

2 Minor Totems
Power Supply Recipe
1x Runes
2x Heal potions / 1x Heal potion + 2 Mana potion
( Depending on my Hero. Example: Hammerstorm needs more Mana early game for ganking than Magebane )

In my lane I use the side shop to get: Mana battery ( + Recipe means Power Supply after 1 Minute ), Hatchet, Shield ( can be upgraded to Agi Shield from the Side shop )
Lifetube.

So the first time I go back to base is when I'm at lvl 8 - 10 to get my boots and maybe 1-2 Health potions.

[Izzachar]

I hade a nice game rushing brutalizer, we won I got good stats etc but the other team was so noob I still dont know if it made a difference.

One thing I noticed was that in early game it doesn't proc that often. Your attack speed is still a bit low to really use the item for its stun. The damage was really nice early game but the stun proc should happen more often to warrant this item early game. Although it kinda scales with you and its nice later game but Im unsure if its the best first pick still. I also gotta admit I got 1 kill early game cause of the stun I wouldnt get otherwise.

Firstly If you wanna play magebane early game with bruta. what about getting elder parasite for better chasing, stunning and mana draining? Yes it increases dmg recieved but you wouldn't activate it in middle of a team fight where aoe is all over the place. Save it until after the teamfight and then use it to chase and stun left overs. You will be a glass cannon and ppl that stop and fight you will probably kill you easily. What you think?

Runed axe is only 1250g more and it gives double the dmg and regen, that means you do not need to go to fountain ever again when farming. It also upps your farm rate by a lot making brutalizer come quick after if that what you want.

Another thing is that you put 1500g into 21 dmg (and the 15% dmg proc) and then you put 1150g into 9dmg and the 25% stun.

So for 2650g you get 30dmg and the stun proc

Building runed axe and going for the dmg items first (1400+1200) gives you 39dmg for 2600g. So thats even more damage. And it builds nicely into 60dmg, splash and regen for 1.6k g more.

As the stun didn't happen -that- often one could say the damage is the most important aspect of the item that is rushed. And that would favor the two dmg components of axe.

Your build goes life steal helmet for 1.8k g. Which then gives comparable dmg to axe, same ability to survive creeps - regen vs lifesteal. Price is comparable to sustainer.

Where runed axe goes sustainer you go life steal helm. So in the end for almost the same price you have 15dmg less then axe, same ability to survive creeps lifesteal vs regen. You have the proc stun. But runed axe has way better farm with the splash. axe + shield and hatchet gives all the farming you need.



So the runed axe magebane vs brutalizer magebane is basicly down to stun proc vs splash damage. Better gank vs better farm.

However there is one thing I have left out and that is the helms active ability. You can control a creep. As you are probably running about jungle anyway its a good opportunity getting a nice creep. Minotaur for a stun and nice dmg or smth else. That will help a lot I think in early-mid game ganks. Problem is that I guess the creep wont keep up with a flashing magebane? Still you could atleast creep stack or something with it maybe making up for the lack of farm compared to axe?

And another possibility is to farm the helm first, very nice that both components are in outpost. Compare gold 1.8k gold vs 1.5k gold halberd. 20dmg vs 21dmg. 5 armor and also lifesteal on the helm. and you can control a creep earlier and creeps are much more useful early game. Rushing a helm, getting a minotaur, gank some, and then go for brutalizer might be better? This would also let you jungle without much problem even earlier. Rushing helf o t victim could also help your lane presence a bit early game.

Im all theory now. I havent tried this yet but I will in my next games.

[Lolza]

Master of the Mantra:
Decreases cast speed and does damage on the amount of mana spells use.
Personally, I normally prefer stats as the radius is waaaaay too small to make any difference and the amount of damage it does is negligible because they will generally not be casting enough high mana spells near you to rather get this than stats, which are a permanent boost to damage, survivability, everything - overall stats are alot more useful IN MOST CASES.
PASSIVE

FAIL.

A level 16 pyromancer who unloads his entire arsenal while near you will take around 750 damage. At that level in the game, this will be around half his HP.

A Witch Slayer using a level 3 ult will take more than 500 damage.

Even heroes that have low mana-cost spells will take significant damage over the course of the entire team battle.

A Demented Shaman healing himself will take more than half of that healing done as damage. When he's spamming heals, that's 85 unavoidable damage every 6 seconds. Considering his low hp, this is a lot.

And let's not forget the cast speed penalty. It will result in lots of missed stuns from dangerous heroes like Pebbles, Pyro, Torturer.

Seriously, this spell is your primary usefulness in team battles. It allows you do do significant damage to heroes even when you are not directly attacking them. What else can you ask for? 8 to all stats? Please.

I read your whole guide and I am sorry but I have to agree with some of the other posters here: you should not be writing guides. It provides LOTS of misinformation and will only result in more shitty players.

I don't even believe your claim that it works in pub games, considering your low PSR.

[R4GE]

I hade a nice game rushing brutalizer, we won I got good stats etc but the other team was so noob I still dont know if it made a difference.

One thing I noticed was that in early game it doesn't proc that often. Your attack speed is still a bit low to really use the item for its stun. The damage was really nice early game but the stun proc should happen more often to warrant this item early game. Although it kinda scales with you and its nice later game but Im unsure if its the best first pick still. I also gotta admit I got 1 kill early game cause of the stun I wouldnt get otherwise.

Firstly If you wanna play magebane early game with bruta. what about getting elder parasite for better chasing, stunning and mana draining? Yes it increases dmg recieved but you wouldn't activate it in middle of a team fight where aoe is all over the place. Save it until after the teamfight and then use it to chase and stun left overs. You will be a glass cannon and ppl that stop and fight you will probably kill you easily. What you think?

Runed axe is only 1250g more and it gives double the dmg and regen, that means you do not need to go to fountain ever again when farming. It also upps your farm rate by a lot making brutalizer come quick after if that what you want.

Another thing is that you put 1500g into 21 dmg (and the 15% dmg proc) and then you put 1150g into 9dmg and the 25% stun.

So for 2650g you get 30dmg and the stun proc

Building runed axe and going for the dmg items first (1400+1200) gives you 39dmg for 2600g. So thats even more damage. And it builds nicely into 60dmg, splash and regen for 1.6k g more.

As the stun didn't happen -that- often one could say the damage is the most important aspect of the item that is rushed. And that would favor the two dmg components of axe.

Your build goes life steal helmet for 1.8k g. Which then gives comparable dmg to axe, same ability to survive creeps - regen vs lifesteal. Price is comparable to sustainer.

Where runed axe goes sustainer you go life steal helm. So in the end for almost the same price you have 15dmg less then axe, same ability to survive creeps lifesteal vs regen. You have the proc stun. But runed axe has way better farm with the splash. axe + shield and hatchet gives all the farming you need.



So the runed axe magebane vs brutalizer magebane is basicly down to stun proc vs splash damage. Better gank vs better farm.

However there is one thing I have left out and that is the helms active ability. You can control a creep. As you are probably running about jungle anyway its a good opportunity getting a nice creep. Minotaur for a stun and nice dmg or smth else. That will help a lot I think in early-mid game ganks. Problem is that I guess the creep wont keep up with a flashing magebane? Still you could atleast creep stack or something with it maybe making up for the lack of farm compared to axe?

And another possibility is to farm the helm first, very nice that both components are in outpost. Compare gold 1.8k gold vs 1.5k gold halberd. 20dmg vs 21dmg. 5 armor and also lifesteal on the helm. and you can control a creep earlier and creeps are much more useful early game. Rushing a helm, getting a minotaur, gank some, and then go for brutalizer might be better? This would also let you jungle without much problem even earlier. Rushing helf o t victim could also help your lane presence a bit early game.

Im all theory now. I havent tried this yet but I will in my next games.


That is a good summary of why I prefer brutalizer :D

BUT, the reason why I would go brutalizer => whispering over runed axe, is because with whispering, you can dominate a creep and stack ancients, where you can get a HUGE amount of gold in a minute or so.

[R4GE]

Just a little something for Zaigon to read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[SmokeShow]

Whether you like MotM, I don't care much for. It's not a huge loss, but the I wouldn't value the stats higher than it.
However, Soulscream Ring is an absolutely horrible first buy, everyone with a clue will tell you that. You're wasting 125 gold on a recipe, that grants you what a minor totem grants you.

Courier's never bad, but you're going to be harrassed so much without any consumables, that you'll have a terrible start on a hero that already has a terrible early game.

Also, you're trying to make fun off 900 PSR'ers? Why? They're bad players?
If you had a decent PSR, one to back up your arrogance, it still would be a moronic insult, but when you're sporting 1300, you should shut it.
You're below average, you shouldn't be making guides to begin with.

I dunno why this guy is being such a prick... but I'm interested in what he thinks the build should look like. Is getting a soulscream ring never a good idea? What should one get instead?


jesus christ...i just tried to make a guide to help people and this is what i get...lol @ (most of) hon community...

Thanks Akitoes and Blue_Aura though for a "silver lining," lets say...

btw mr IKNOWITALLEVERYONEELSESUCKSANDSHOULDDIEINAHOLE aka Zaigon im not arrogant and neither have i insulted lower psr people because i, for one know that psr is a guideline and if i was 5000 psr i wudnt b arrogant towards people unlike someone who i won't name *cough* Zaigon *cough*. Also, about the "moronic" comment, i go to a very well rated school so hard luck.

i just wrote out what worked for me and hey, it works, like Akitoes says.

lol welcome to the HoN community... I know what you mean... I don't see why people have to tear into you so hard lol. The HoN community is made up of the most socially inept and isolated, low self esteem having tards on the planet.

They are rude, have zero patience, narcissistic, condescending and the list can go on and on... it's really quite interesting...

[Forfeit]

Brutalizer core? Negative. It's a viable item on him because of his attack speed and easy positioning, but I wouldn't call it core and I wouldn't get it before Whispering Helm as that item makes for easy farming the rest of the game.

Axe, Shield, regen.

Courier a power supply, steamboots, then get Whispering Helm in that order.

Stack ancients. Farm a battlefury if you want ezmode farming, or your Brutalizer here if you wanted to go that route. Then get a Firebrand, which you can make into either a Geometer's or Frostburn.

[R4GE]

Brutalizer core? Negative. It's a viable item on him because of his attack speed and easy positioning, but I wouldn't call it core and I wouldn't get it before Whispering Helm as that item makes for easy farming the rest of the game.

Axe, Shield, regen.

Courier a power supply, steamboots, then get Whispering Helm in that order.

Stack ancients. Farm a battlefury if you want ezmode farming, or your Brutalizer here if you wanted to go that route. Then get a Firebrand, which you can make into either a Geometer's or Frostburn.

Yes, I was expecting most people to say this, in the replays I have watched of comp play pretty much all Magebane's rush runed axe, and that is why I have included it in my guide) but I have no experience of comp play and i dunno about that. The reason I dont get whispering first is because the life steal is really minimal with your low damage early game and only starts to kick in mid game, while for me, brutalizer gives me serious laning presence + easier last hitting + possibilty of ganking alot because a procced stun is an easy kill if the enemy is ~50% healthin a lane. Also i normally feel like Magebane's huge base MS and blink give him enough mobility without steamboots. However, this is my route and your opinion is completely valid and viable (not as if you are saying rush hellflower or sumthin lol).

Maybe make a new MIDGAME section with runed axe? What do you think?

[Blue_Aura]

I start with:

*Hatchet
*2 runes
*stats (minor totems)

Then in lane i get

*Iron buckler
*Lifetube

I then get a vit booster if its going well, pick up boots and keep farming and core should look like this :

*Steamboots str
*Helm of the black legion
*Bracer (optional)

Then build straight into brutalizer, should be owning face by now. Whispering helm for lifesteal which becomes symbol of rage later, but before that i get wingbow OR geometers bane, not both. The game is probably over by now.

I used to always do that, but now i prefer a whispering helm to ancient stack :D. It's amazing how useful ancient stacking really is!

[Trippin]

This guide is not bad at all.

[jar]

This guide is not bad at all.


Really hope you're being sarcastic.

There should really be some sort of moderation in this forum to prevent misinformation of new players who are trying to learn : /

[R4GE]

Theriana, instead of flaming, what is bad with the guide exactly, then I can use your suggestion to make it better.

Please, dont say "OMG 1300 nab wut the hell rong with u go l2p ffs" (dont do an ad hominem)

[jar]

Theriana, instead of flaming, what is bad with the guide exactly, then I can use your suggestion to make it better.

Please, dont say "OMG 1300 nab wut the hell rong with u go l2p ffs" (dont do an ad hominem)


It's been stated multiple times in this thread already what's wrong with the guide. No Mantra, buying marchers then halberd, etc. You should really just remove the guide if you care about informing new players how to play. That or you could rename the title to "My Magebane Build" or something to not lead new players into believing they will have the most success with this build, because they won't.

[R4GE]

1. I didn't say no mantra, I said it is situational.
2. Marchers are pretty core for most characters, same goes for Magebane - I'm sure most people would agree with me on that.
3. My build does work, its tried and tested by me and other people aswell.
4. I bet you havn't even tried this build in a match.

[MrKoreanGuy]

when you are first going to your lane, you want consumables and stats to keep you in the lane longer. Not a hatchet at start. You get hatchet ASAP from the outpost.

[R4GE]

when you are first going to your lane, you want consumables and stats to keep you in the lane longer. Not a hatchet at start. You get hatchet ASAP from the outpost.

I used to do that before aswell, but now I get hatchet first because it just helps a HUGE amount at lvl 1, and bcoz i have a courier, i can get consumables wenever i want :D

However, I do have an option without loggers.

I could see an argument for starting with a Trinket of Restoration on heroes that intend to build Headress or Astrolabe fairly early (like Plague Rider or Ophelia), but I don't think it makes sense for Magebane. You can buy 4 packs of runes for 360, that's 1380 points of regen. A naked Trinket will take 23 minutes to give you 1380 points of regen.

[calm]

I could see an argument for starting with a Trinket of Restoration on heroes that intend to build Headress or Astrolabe fairly early (like Plague Rider or Ophelia), but I don't think it makes sense for Magebane. You can buy 4 packs of runes for 360, that's 1380 points of regen. A naked Trinket will take 23 minutes to give you 1380 points of regen.

besides, you should have lifetube for runed axe pretty quick

[RogerDodger]

Brutaliser core... sigh.

9x runes / 6x runes
2x totems / 3 totems
Hachet

==

Power Supply
Lifetube -> Sustainer
Steamboots
Runed Axe
Whispering Helm

==

Whatever DPS items you want.

==


Also, saying Master of the Mantra is useless is very laughable, it increases the case times of enemy heroes by over 40%, which against heroes like behemoth and torturer is rape.

[R4GE]

Brutaliser core... sigh.

9x runes / 6x runes
2x totems / 3 totems
Hachet

==

Power Supply
Lifetube -> Sustainer
Steamboots
Runed Axe
Whispering Helm

==

Whatever DPS items you want.

==


Also, saying Master of the Mantra is useless is very laughable, it increases the case times of enemy heroes by over 40%, which against heroes like behemoth and torturer is rape.

i managed to farm a 12minute brutaliser (non-em) today. Tell me you wouldn't rape hard with that.

[RogerDodger]

Do you have any idea how fast magebane farms with a runed axe.

[R4GE]

Do you have any idea how fast magebane farms with a runed axe.

Yes, I tried it out today, got one at 20mins, it was good but i have to stay i still prefer brutaliser.

[Uber_LOL]

^^^

In that match he got a score of 3/7 and was non stop nub flaming.

[inDe_eD]

Master of the Mantra:
Decreases cast speed and does damage on the amount of mana spells use.
Personally, I normally prefer stats


Oh.



The Build:
1.Flash
2.Mana Combustion
3.Mana Combustion
4.Flash
5.Mana Combustion
6.Flash

My.



Cores:
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/images/items/Item_Brutalizer.jpg



GOD.

0/10 for reasons that have been pointed out numerous times in this thread already.

[archkyle]

interesting starting builds, i just go runes, hatchet, and shield he deals a good amount of damage so last hitting is easy with hatchet. altho i generally rush runed axe, not because its a core item but because it's luls for farming. your core items are a good choice over all imo.

nice guide

btw, the only reason i dont get mantra early is for one very practical reason.... a friend told me this once.

"they can see your aura and it makes it harder to gank."

'nough said.

[CoolCly]

Maybe I'm just a noob but why would you get Geo's and Frostburn? You are kind of wasting some of the benefits of the Firebrand in the frostburn. Shouldn't you just get a frostwolfs or something?

[Destoryer]

i prefer stats over MotM most of time, only except vs hero like pyro
(range 600 explain almost everything)

skill build,

1.Flash
2.Mana Combustion
3.Mana Combustion
4.Flash
5.Mana Combustion
6.mana rift

always.

item-
i never get runed axe for magebane on pub. (need team strategy to use cleavebane properly)
if u want perma farming, go get chronos.

for em noobs, always get runed axe.

* have 4 accounts and play mostly 1650+

[Flair]

I dunno why this guy is being such a prick... but I'm interested in what he thinks the build should look like. Is getting a soulscream ring never a good idea? What should one get instead?



lol welcome to the HoN community... I know what you mean... I don't see why people have to tear into you so hard lol. The HoN community is made up of the most socially inept and isolated, low self esteem having tards on the planet.

They are rude, have zero patience, narcissistic, condescending and the list can go on and on... it's really quite interesting...
Stop.

I haven't been checking this guide for a long time, but wanted to see if he had the decency to take it down.
He didn't.

You seemed to have missed everything in this thread and you must have severe reading incapabilities to do so, when I've made my point so clear.

Let's hold hands while we pick apart your post, even though I'm unsure you deserve a proper answer, will understand it or even admit defeat should you realise your wrongs.

A) I'm not the idiot here. I'm the guy desperately trying to reach out to the bad players. It's the OP who's so stubbornly trying to selfpromote, that he doesn't care enough about how wrong his guide is. That also brings up the Narcism-cry, making it quite apparent that this is a feature belonging to the OP, not everyone in this guide disagreeing with him.

B) Socially inept and isolated? You're new to trashtalking? Keep shooting in the dark, eventually you'll might hit a nerve, but this flame is overused, outdated, guess-work and wrong again. I'm being a sympathic guy. I'm trying to help telling people that they shouldn't follow his guide, because it's plain wrong.

C) Why would I suffer from low self esteem? Again, this is a take on my social capabilities or lack of, shot in the dark. I have no reason to think little of myself and it's quite obvious through this thread that I'm 100% sure in what I say and not doubting my points. On top of that, I'm being backed up plenty in this thread, so yet another reason why I wouldn't be doubting myself.


D) Patience? Makes no sense.

E) There's nothing wrong with the condescension going on in this thread. OP's being wrong and shouldn't spread his fallacious view.

Please continue the list, but if you do, have some valid points.

And to answer your question, you should go Runed Axe, not as an option, but as your core. You shouldn't be ganking. The excuse of "ganking is more fun" is downright dumb as well. You should be farming.

If you read my first reply, you'd see how wrong his first builds were as well.
Ever suggestion that Soulscream Ring is a good first buy or that laning without regeneration is smart is a clear sign that you shouldn't be making any guides.
If you don't understand the basics of the game, don't try educating anyone, but yourself.

To round off, the biggest problem in the HoN community isn't the rudeness or offensive posts.
It's people deluding themselves into thinking they're better than they are. The OP's a perfect example of this.

[Flair]

i prefer stats over MotM most of time, only except vs hero like pyro
(range 600 explain almost everything)

skill build,

1.Flash
2.Mana Combustion
3.Mana Combustion
4.Flash
5.Mana Combustion
6.mana rift

always.

item-
i never get runed axe for magebane on pub. (need team strategy to use cleavebane properly)
if u want perma farming, go get chronos.

for em noobs, always get runed axe.

* have 4 accounts and play mostly 1650+
You're saying you need team strategy to jump from neutral camp to neutral camp while auto-attacking creeps? How? All your team needs to do is buy wards to make sure your farm isn't interrupted, if that's not happening, buy them yourself. No strategy needed.

You're saying Chronos is a better farming than Magebane? Tell me how a 13 second CD semi-high mana cost blink provides more jungling viability than a 6 seconds low mana cost blink.

[saidryian]

I'm trying to help telling people that they shouldn't follow his guide, because it's plain wrong.

[...]

To round off, the biggest problem in the HoN community isn't the rudeness or offensive posts.
It's people deluding themselves into thinking they're better than they are. The OP's a perfect example of this.Thankyou for all your posts. I'm glad people like you exist. Learning how to play badly in because of terrible guides have always been very painful experiences for me, the chance to avoid another one is a godsend.

[TKDSUSDK]

lol @ the OP

Everything Zaigon has said has been in a fairly civil, intelligent manner, and is CORRECT. Your guide is BAD. People get whispering helm to stack ancients, for the lifeleech, nice armor/damage buff, and to help with ganks IF NEEDED with a minotaur.

Not getting mantra early so people don't see your aura in a gank? You're magebane, you're not roaming around ganking until later and if you are it's just because the gank is really close to wherever you were farming.

God I'd ****ing hate to approach a stacked ancient camp with a brutalizer and magebane, I'd get raped and I'd need a shitload of help from my teammates,

Your items are stupid and inefficient. Basher is an item for 1v1 carries late late game if needed, otherwise it's a waste of a slot on almost anyone. Maybe you need one IF your team is a complete noob team without a single disable but you shouldn't be needing to disable someone by yourself.

I thought it was really funny when that guy a few pages back gave an analysis of runed vs basher and you said "THANKS THATS WHY I GO BASHER" or whatever, when in reality he was saying runed was way better. I think that about sums about your understanding of English discourse.

[R4GE]

lol @ the OP

Everything Zaigon has said has been in a fairly civil, intelligent manner, and is CORRECT. Your guide is BAD. People get whispering helm to stack ancients, for the lifeleech, nice armor/damage buff, and to help with ganks IF NEEDED with a minotaur.

Not getting mantra early so people don't see your aura in a gank? You're magebane, you're not roaming around ganking until later and if you are it's just because the gank is really close to wherever you were farming.

God I'd ****ing hate to approach a stacked ancient camp with a brutalizer and magebane, I'd get raped and I'd need a shitload of help from my teammates,

Your items are stupid and inefficient. Basher is an item for 1v1 carries late late game if needed, otherwise it's a waste of a slot on almost anyone. Maybe you need one IF your team is a complete noob team without a single disable but you shouldn't be needing to disable someone by yourself.

I thought it was really funny when that guy a few pages back gave an analysis of runed vs basher and you said "THANKS THATS WHY I GO BASHER" or whatever, when in reality he was saying runed was way better. I think that about sums about your understanding of English discourse.

I feel sorry for you.

[Ardeaf]

OP, you put on the image that you're the victim, and you want constructive criticism; yet, when given criticism, you take it as insult? Regardless of whether or not it is an insult, criticism is criticism - you should take it and apply it to your guide, which, correct me if I'm wrong, you have not done yet (past your starting items).

For example, here is a constructive point:


Also, saying Master of the Mantra is useless is very laughable, it increases the case times of enemy heroes by over 40%, which against heroes like behemoth and torturer is rape.

Never mind that he proposed a seemingly better build than yours, and pointed out a flaw in your core items - Brutalizer. You skipped over everything in his post and instead said, in essence, "Look at me. I farmed Brutallizer fast. Therefore, your entire post is moot."

[Sheapy1]

Brutalizer first is a bad item. You can't gank, you have no where near the ASPD to even pull off constant stuns.

Axe, Shield, Runes. Hope a teamate buys courier to send you your items. Grab a mantube first to allow some spammeage of Flash for easier movement. Runed Axe (if rushed) should be completed around 15-25 minutes, if not then you have failed. Why Runed Axe? Because along with MB's flash, it allows him to farm creepwaves and neutrals faster than any other hero in the game. 20 minute runed axe, 5 minute steamboots and whispering helm, 5 minute brutalizer, 5-10 minute shrunken head if the game isnt over by then.

[Thalien]

Didn't realise it was possible to make a bad guide for such an easy hero.

Seriously this is just horrible. So bad in so many ways :(

[arieLOL]

a.) make sure its easy mode
b.) pick magebane
c.) roll face on keyboard and hope no one on the other team picked chronos and is rolling face on keyboard
d.) win

[sil]

i managed to farm a 12minute brutaliser (non-em) today. Tell me you wouldn't rape hard with that.
1420 psr
lol

[Kaelillidan]

I always start with boots and tangos. Increased movespeed sometimes allows you to last hit a creep and flee without taking damage; aka. the farming mechanism of this game.

[Flair]

I always start with boots and tangos. Increased movespeed sometimes allows you to last hit a creep and flee without taking damage; aka. the farming mechanism of this game.
I'm sure you're trolling to stir up the shitstorm just a tad more than the tornado it already is, but there's only a single excuse ever to buy boots as your first item and that's if you've got more than the usual starting gold.
Otherwise it's horrible in any situation and on every hero.

And thank you both saidryian as well as TKDSUSDK.

[Havens]

If good guides can be requested and deemed worthy to be moved to the premium section, there should be an option for guides to be removed.

Element, you stated to not flame him because this is 'his' guide and to keep the posts constructive. Which is usually a good idea in normal forum moderation to keep things civil, but the entire reason behind the guides section is to help players by providing good information on how to play and how to build heroes in a way that reliably helps them succeed. This section is not to share your experiences on how you lolstomped a game with a codex scout or a game where you got 3 doombringers, crit, and some boots.
the thread has offered beneficial criticism in many ways, though some of it was posted in a way that may seem rude, it doesn't make it any less correct, but the author has either refused to include or chosen to outright ignore. Which in many ways hinders the performance of any player who happens to stumble upon this guide.

TL;DR please remove the guide for the sake of HoN players everywhere.

[Nietzschean]

In response to the thread title:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

You cannot possibly own a pub with a hard carry. Want to own in pubs, dont play a hard carry, your 2-4 team mates (depending on how retarded they are) have you covered in that section.