Concede System

[Ununki]

Recently I have started playing Heroes of Newerth And have to give praise its amazingly well done. However there is one thing I would currently like to complain about that hasn't been changed/ Fixed whatever you wish to call it.

The concede system of the game. While playing a game Your team is in the lead by lets say maybe what 10 kills? This isn't really a major lead in my opinion and shouldn't make anyone want to quit or concede but Constantly time and time again I am seeing people Conceding with not even that much of a gap, 5 kills ahead and someone got a hat trick? oh **** lets concede.

The change i would like to suggest is a lead based concede. Where you may only concede if The Enemy team is leading by 25 kills on the scoreboard. so if the losing team had say 15 kills, and the Winning team had 40 kills then and only then may you concede. Maybe not 25 kills but you get my point.

I think that this rather simple fix will solve premature games and allow everyone to get more Experience while playing. Hopefully it will allow people to play a game, and not just Concede when they think their stats will get bruised.

(may or may not be in the right Section)

[Rippsy]

Ununki; the problem with conditional based concedes are they can be exploited.

If I was 24 kills ahead and let you get a kill everytime I killed one of your players you could never concede...etc

Other issues you could have a team which was amazing at pushing towers but not getting kills; thus you'd never reach +25.

I do share your grief where players concede a game they would probably win if they stuck it out to end-game where there carries could make a real difference.

Something needs to be done, but I honestly can't put my finger on WHAT would work :(

[Ununki]

Yea i agree maybe it would be a little bad to have just plain kills based concede, however The current system only has a time limit and then guns ablaze just leave :/, Maybe along with kills they can have a rax counter as well and if you have lost one or 2 you can concede, but i played a game where people conceded in the first 12 minutes of the game. It gets a little frustrating.

Well maybe someone commenting later will have a better idea for a concede system than me :P for now at least the issue has been posted. :p

[Rippsy]

Ununki: The concede system does need changing and im all for as many idea's of how to do this as possible.

:)

[BoosTer_GoLd]

i have an idea why dont they they add a new stat to your profile for coneding games ?

[Ununki]

That is actually a pretty good idea, Maybe that would make people think twice.

[Blou_Aap]

i have an idea why dont they they add a new stat to your profile for coneding games ?
They got that stat there already.
Yes premature Concede is very frustrating, I think maybe add it as an option on game creation. And also like what was said before, maybe some function that can check how many Racks have been lost before the option can be called.

[Ununki]

OK they Do track Concedes but maybe they should show concedes done before 20 minutes in the /stats function. or actively display concedes before 20 minutes elsewhere.

[Wreckus]

Doesn't it require the whole team to vote for the Concede?

[Ununki]

This is true that it does require the entire team to concede, but often the nature of people is if losing let us preserve our stats and all concede. Rather than playing to the best of their ability and trying to win. Granted in some situations this isn't possible. But concedes are often premature. :(

[Zejety]

Well, you've just won.
Cheer!

[Karmashock]

People have a right to forfeit if they want to quit. What a silly idea to force people to keep playing even if they don't want to..

That's what they're telling you.

They joined the game to have a good time. They aren't having a good time. They want to quit. They accept the loss and give you a win... and walk away.

You win. Take your win. A lot of the people complaining about concedes are people pub stomping that are irritated that people are quiting before they can stat pad enough. Frankly, it's not an honorable complaint in most cases.


Yes, there are some people that give up when they could win. But who cares? In most cases it means your team is playing below it's level and has outclassed or overly impressed the other team.


Lets leave it alone for a few days and see how the new stat system interacts with the pubstomp scene. Ideally it should enforce some more balance.

[Wreckus]

Ah, I just ignore Concedes if I don't want to Concede v0v.

[ubachung]

concedes are often premature. :(

Games are often one sided too. I have no problem at all with the current concede system. If you find your opponents conceding too often for your liking perhaps you need to find a higher caliber of opponent rather than complaining about concede.

[Ununki]

I agree Karmashock that people shouldn't be held hostage by the system and be unable to Concede. However Being able to concede without even attempting to try play is just going to be a downfall to the game itself.

I play in mostly games that have in their name no beginners so on. And Granted a lot of games people don't concede unless its completely necessary. However, in one game i played a player on my side got 3 kills in a short time. I hadn't even got any kills nor done anything major and the team conceded and left. Its rather troublesome.

Also yea some teams are stacked there should be a tracker or something to show if they had played previous games together to let people who are new to this type of game know that it may be bad for them.

At any rate i appreciate any ideas that can maybe be brought forward.

[Shino]

But allowing you to concede before you have event tried to fight back is pathetic. How is anyone going to get better if they only stick around in games they are winning?
Its the games you lose that you learn from. Better players are the only players you can learn from. In dota there is no concede. If you don't know how to play you just have to try your best. And your best gets better. Then you can opt for even better opponents. In HoN you can concede and look for someone worse than you to stomp on.

Just....sad.

[evotech]

People have a right to forfeit if they want to quit. What a silly idea to force people to keep playing even if they don't want to..

That's what they're telling you.

They joined the game to have a good time. They aren't having a good time. They want to quit. They accept the loss and give you a win... and walk away.

You win. Take your win. A lot of the people complaining about concedes are people pub stomping that are irritated that people are quiting before they can stat pad enough. Frankly, it's not an honorable complaint in most cases.


Yes, there are some people that give up when they could win. But who cares? In most cases it means your team is playing below it's level and has outclassed or overly impressed the other team.


Lets leave it alone for a few days and see how the new stat system interacts with the pubstomp scene. Ideally it should enforce some more balance.

Karmashock, does TLSC ring a bell?

Anyway, i agree 100%

In EVERY other game people can just quit when they want to, here, the whole team has to agree that its no use fighting on. Take your win, play the next game. quit crying.

Yes it sucks that you have farmed teh entire game to get an awesoem amounts of items and then you cant use them, but that's life

[Sadhe]

Instead of punishing those conceding, it should only be limited in when it can be used, but not based on kills.

Something like this:
– Conceding before the 40th minute is not possible, for every player that has disconnected and had his/her hero removed from the game this mark is lowered by 10 minutes.
– Conceding before the 40th minute is possible when you have lost twice as many or more buildings as the opposing team or half or more of your buildings and in the case of the opponents having not lost any buildings, you are allowed to concede after you have lost one third of your buildings.
– The above mentioned buildings are Towers, Melee Barracks and Ranged Barracks.

The average game lasts about 45 minutes and if any of the conditions are met, except the time one without any disconnected players, the other team has a definite advantage, although it may be possible to turn the tables.

[Ununki]

What most people are probably being fed up with is the 13 minute concedes, I am not the best player on the planet myself but recreating a game every 20 minutes sometimes in succession can be a bit daunting. I don't care about farming and looking good i just want to play a game and enjoy it, its similar to playing Say CSS or 1.6 and people quit because you got 3 kills in a row or giving up in a soccer match because the other team got a goal. Or in the Olympics people giving up because the other team got a gold medal.

Sadhe i like your ideas it gives more context to The building tracking idea. Keep the ideas rolling :D.

[ubachung]

What about games in which the enemy does not push towers, but just constantly ganks your team with their unbeatable combination of heroes? If the enemy team is 15 kills ahead 15 minutes into the game why should the losing team have to stay and continue getting stomped?

Everyone complaining about this needs to start thinking about perspectives other than their own. Sure, missing out on a full length game might not be terribly fun for you, but being horribly owned with no way to escape is totally unfair.

[SolidStroke]

I think the concede option is perfect as is. Karmashock and evotech are right. I've got a fair share of concedes under my belt, and none have been stat-related. I'm not going to sit with my thumb in my ass while the enemy grabs himself in his base when everything is pushed up and they're 5 levels higher. A win is a win. Take it, and savour it, because that's all that matters. If you want to practice, practice against a clan or inhouse.

[Ununki]

Ye ubachung i agree that that too is a possible problem but this is why you introduce a concede that tracks kills and rax, thus the possibility of that would be very low unless they gang and not kill anyone in the process.
like i said this is mainly for ideas. And hopefully some good ones arise.

[Fest1]

Recently I have started playing Heroes of Newerth And have to give praise its amazingly well done. However there is one thing I would currently like to complain about that hasn't been changed/ Fixed whatever you wish to call it.

The concede system of the game. While playing a game Your team is in the lead by lets say maybe what 10 kills? This isn't really a major lead in my opinion and shouldn't make anyone want to quit or concede but Constantly time and time again I am seeing people Conceding with not even that much of a gap, 5 kills ahead and someone got a hat trick? oh **** lets concede.

The change i would like to suggest is a lead based concede. Where you may only concede if The Enemy team is leading by 25 kills on the scoreboard. so if the losing team had say 15 kills, and the Winning team had 40 kills then and only then may you concede. Maybe not 25 kills but you get my point.

I think that this rather simple fix will solve premature games and allow everyone to get more Experience while playing. Hopefully it will allow people to play a game, and not just Concede when they think their stats will get bruised.

(may or may not be in the right Section)

I agree but only one parameter is kind of restricting. It should be 30 minutes in, behind by 25 kills or 2 sets of tower/barracks are down.

[Verne]

Concede is not the problem. Stats are. As long as stats are there as they are now people will concede more and earlier.

[Paragon]

Early concedes are absolutely a frustration for the winning team.

But DotA / HoN is one of those games where you usually get into a downward spiral of deaths->stronger enemies->more deaths. The worse you do, the stronger your opponents become and the more they kill you. I think the level of frustration from an early concede pales compared to how it feels to lose a game of HoN when you're getting dominated, not just beaten. There are games where one or two enemy heroes get so farmed so fast that they win every engagement easily, but for one reason or another they can't actually push all that fast - suppose the farmed hero is Night Hound, for the sake of argument, who is very fragile in range of towers. The result is a game where you play for 20 or 30 minutes, dying frequently and losing team battles left and right until finally they can walk through your base without being challenged at all.

There's no static rule you can apply that will work all the time. Not being able to concede for 40 minutes is a terrible idea; many non-em games are decided in the first 20-25 minutes, sometimes sooner. Setting any kind of immutable threshold is the wrong approach.

Probably the right thing to do is add concessions to a player's stats. HoN players are rabid stats whores, and nobody wants to add what would certainly be perceived as a negative stat without being sure that the game isn't winnable. Now, to be fair, the nature of HoN and DotA is that wins are rarely a forgone conclusion, and certainly not to the degree that players tend to think they are. I've come back from some very deep kill/death team ratios in a single push where we pull a Genocide and wreck the base in less than 5 minutes from start to finish.

Make concessions show up in player stats, and I suspect that the number of them will diminish dramatically.

[Volff]

I believe that if a team wishes to concede they should at least lose 1 melee rax and 1 ranged rax

[stobex]

That 'lose a rax' or any of the kind rule would not work cause people like to farm, hell i like to farm, im not pushing if i can farm easy kills from the other team.
If you have a problem with people concede too early on you are playing against too easy opponents, play someone your own skill level and maybe not a 5man premade vs 5 random noobs. Thats when you get the better games, endless farming gets old fast.

[FingerFactor]

Although I do think the concede option is often leading teams to give up too early, I think its a good new feature that will help the evolution of HoN. Face it, if you have ever played DotA publicly you know that the flip side to concede is a ragequit. If you are stomping the other team, and they are all getting frustrated to the point where everyone is willing to concede (considering it requires the entire team to vote), then let them. As everyone else has said, take your win and find some better opponents to play against.

[kingcomrade]

The problem with the concede system is not the concede system, it is stat tracking. People will not sit around and try to fight and end up getting killed over and over with no effort when it's going to hurt their chances of not getting kicked from a new game by the host.

Concede is an excellent contribution. It's childish to try and force enemies to stick around so you can kill them in the fountain over and over. Nobody has any duty to be your *****.

[treefingers]

get rid of public k/d ratio and people wouldn't act this way.

[Q_Necron]

get rid of public k/d ratio and people wouldn't act this way.

Truuf!

[FingerFactor]

get rid of public k/d ratio and people wouldn't act this way.
Truuf!

quoted for truth.

[Karmashock]

Karmashock, does TLSC ring a bell?
Of course.

Anyway, i agree 100%


In EVERY other game people can just quit when they want to, here, the whole team has to agree that its no use fighting on. Take your win, play the next game. quit crying.

Yes it sucks that you have farmed teh entire game to get an awesoem amounts of items and then you cant use them, but that's life
Exactly, if anything it's too hard to concede requiring that the whole team agree. A couple times I've had to vote kick people to let the team concede... either on my team or the enemy team.


Early concessions happen when the teams aren't balanced. There are other cases but 95 percent of the time that's the reason for it.


In other games when this happens people just drop. In HoN you're penalized for dropping so people feel trapped into a game they don't want to play anymore.


In Chess when you're losing and tired of fighting the battle you topple your king over and walk away. End.


This is no different. It's very strange that people think they have the a right to force people to play a game they are no longer enjoying...


If concessions bother you frequently, then it's almost certain that you're pubstomping... playing well below your level, and should probably stop farming newbies and ACTUALLY play against people at your level. This will ironically hurt your stats of course because you'll be lucky to do better then a 1:1 if you play against your own level. But that's life.



Really, that's a whole new way of looking at stats. Anyone with a ratio over 1:1 typically plays people that are not as good as he is... sure, that player might also be very good. But they only reason they get stats that high is because they commonly play against people that are no where near their level. If they played people at or near their level then naturally no matter how good they are they'd rarely do better then 1:1 .


I'm going to start a thread on the concept and see where that goes.

[Weebles]

I kind of like the following:

Cannot concede unless one of the three following conditions are met:
1. The game is over 40 minutes
2. The game is over 20 minutes long and the K: D favors one team 3:1
3. The game is over 20 minutes long and one team has 4 more towers than the other team.
All requirements for concession are lifted if a player drops.

Basically... no concessions in the first 20 minutes...
After 20 minutes, you may concede if you are losing in kills by a 3:1 margin
(ex. if it's 9 kills for them and 3 for you, you may concede, 9 and 4 you cant)
Any time after 40 minutes you may concede.

This would prevent instant concessions and actually let people play games in excess of 10 minutes, as well as prevent people from conceding when they lose the first big team fight at 23 minutes but are still only down 16:10

The numbers might need tweaking but it sounds good to me.

[profuse]

The problem is that DotA/HoN have a brutal "slippery slope" mechanic. Sirlin wrote a great article on how this influences gameplay on many levels. A lot of games are well over even at the 20-30 minute mark.

[nicosharp]

Concede is not the problem. Stats are. As long as stats are there as they are now people will concede more and earlier.

This is true - I like the new Win/Lose point system - I think that will take away a bit of the negativity to those people with poor K/D ratios - as long as they carry decent rating.

[MooFreaky]

I am not 100% in support of the stat system (but I don't think it's as bad as some claim); however, I definately think that removing the stat system would actually make this situation far worse.

Yes people are stat whores, but removing stats would just encourage rage quitting. Any veteran of the DotA PUB scene knows that ragequits happen in many games, often well before the time that teams are conceeding in HoN.
How many games have been wrecked by a ragequit in the first 10 minutes?? Often leading to an entire team just abandoning a game.

The problem is worse in DotA, at least in HoN they are forced to stay (well... enticed, at least) until everyone on the team agrees it is over.

The conceed system will never be perfect. There are other ways it can screw people over... there are times when 1 member of the losing team is powerful enough to get a positive kill:death ratio (often, in my experience, by farming the one weak link in an opponent's team, KSing or other means that do not make him vastly superior to his teammates) and will refuse to allow his team to conceed even though they are being farmed mercilessly simply so he can improve his stats.

Yes the system is imperfect, but there is no system that will be. Right now it is still better than DotA, so let', at least, appreciate that fact and just improve further rather than reverting to the old system.

[ChimEuphoria]

its similar to playing Say CSS or 1.6 and people quit because you got 3 kills in a row or giving up in a soccer match because the other team got a goal. Or in the Olympics people giving up because the other team got a gold medal.


No, it isnt similar at all. The player that just got a hat trick is now 800 gold or more richer and (depending on time in the game) 2 or 3 levels higher than he was before. Getting 3 kills in 1.6 doesnt give you too much of an advantage over other players, Since when does getting a gold medal in the olympics give you better stats in the next event? The same can be said for soccer.

Games are normally decided within the first 15-20 minutes.

If the carry on your team is a giant scrub, which unfortunately is the case most of the time, you are going to have a hard time getting past a hat trick/double kill.

Concedes are a godsend in pub games. Especially since a large majority of HoN players havent even touched DoTA let alone know what WC3 is.

[kingcomrade]

Cannot concede unless one of the three following conditions are met:
1. The game is over 40 minutes
2. The game is over 20 minutes long and the K: D favors one team 3:1
3. The game is over 20 minutes long and one team has 4 more towers than the other team.
Gogo sitting at the fountain for 20 minutes

[Nuk_Duck]

I am not 100% in support of the stat system (but I don't think it's as bad as some claim); however, I definately think that removing the stat system would actually make this situation far worse.

Yes people are stat whores, but removing stats would just encourage rage quitting. Any veteran of the DotA PUB scene knows that ragequits happen in many games, often well before the time that teams are conceeding in HoN.
How many games have been wrecked by a ragequit in the first 10 minutes?? Often leading to an entire team just abandoning a game.

The problem is worse in DotA, at least in HoN they are forced to stay (well... enticed, at least) until everyone on the team agrees it is over.

The conceed system will never be perfect. There are other ways it can screw people over... there are times when 1 member of the losing team is powerful enough to get a positive kill:death ratio (often, in my experience, by farming the one weak link in an opponent's team, KSing or other means that do not make him vastly superior to his teammates) and will refuse to allow his team to conceed even though they are being farmed mercilessly simply so he can improve his stats.

Yes the system is imperfect, but there is no system that will be. Right now it is still better than DotA, so let', at least, appreciate that fact and just improve further rather than reverting to the old system.

Thanks for saving me the troubles of posting that. :)

[Scrag]

The problem is that DotA/HoN have a brutal "slippery slope" mechanic. Sirlin wrote a great article on how this influences gameplay on many levels. A lot of games are well over even at the 20-30 minute mark.

The gold division between teams is two times what is probably intended, not once. You die, you loose, they gain, twice the pain. It is a completely obscene game mechanic. I assume at some point S2 will address this issue to make a more competitive and enjoyable game.

[DrunkenOne]

Karmashock, does TLSC ring a bell?

Anyway, i agree 100%

In EVERY other game people can just quit when they want to, here, the whole team has to agree that its no use fighting on. Take your win, play the next game. quit crying.

Yes it sucks that you have farmed teh entire game to get an awesoem amounts of items and then you cant use them, but that's life
lol tlsc

[Dethsesh]

whats wrong with the concede system as it is, if a team agrees as a whole that they want to give up, then why should it matter?

There is no way for the system to know if 3 out of the 5 players have given up and decided to forest or afk in the pool because they feel they have lost and are just going to die repeatedly. I think if a team wants to concede and give you a win, then thats how it should be

[Bloodaxe]

I think the problem is that people want to save their stats, and considering a game they might lose will do that.

Stats are going to make people play different then regular DOTA

[Majkee]

concede ok but:
4/5 players to concede
10 min cooldown for one player voting concede

[ElementUser]

I just want the timer to be pushed to 30 minutes or something instead of 15 minutes

[evotech]

lol tlsc

its tru its lol, guess my name, you know me :P

[jackp0tz]

whats wrong with the concede system as it is, if a team agrees as a whole that they want to give up, then why should it matter?

There is no way for the system to know if 3 out of the 5 players have given up and decided to forest or afk in the pool because they feel they have lost and are just going to die repeatedly. I think if a team wants to concede and give you a win, then thats how it should be

true, but when the whole team don't aggree to concede, they start cussing each other out and just afk in the base..

what im saying is the concede is just making players give up concede or no concede its annoying see my team quit when we get Genocided by the other team.. while im still trying to counter them/farm up.

[Pfanne]

i had a game, where i wished i would have been able to concede, but a prick in our team just wouldnt agree...
it was like 20 minutes into the game and we had 21-0 stats...
it was 4on5 because one player left early on.
so we were trying to concede but couldnt because one player just wouldnt agree...
the only thing he did was running out of the base, getting owned, waiting to revive and getting owned again.
trying to kick him wouldnt work because the other team obviously wanted to farm kills or had fun annoying us, so the game ended with 3x - 5 stats or something...
i think its ok if you had an 66% agreement on a vote to pass it through...
people wanting to concede wont give their best anyway.

[Blou_Aap]

i had a game, where i wished i would have been able to concede, but a prick in our team just wouldnt agree...
it was like 20 minutes into the game and we had 21-0 stats...
it was 4on5 because one player left early on.
so we were trying to concede but couldnt because one player just wouldnt agree...
the only thing he did was running out of the base, getting owned, waiting to revive and getting owned again.
trying to kick him wouldnt work because the other team obviously wanted to farm kills or had fun annoying us, so the game ended with 3x - 5 stats or something...
i think its ok if you had an 66% agreement on a vote to pass it through...
people wanting to concede wont give their best anyway.
Yes They should make Kicking a player a team vote and not a global vote.
That is one thing they HAVE to fix. Because like you said you get an a$$ like that ruining it and an even bigger a$$ of a team you play against and would not vote to kick because they are farming lekker stats off of him...
Lame.

[Keula]

People have a right to forfeit if they want to quit. What a silly idea to force people to keep playing even if they don't want to..

That's what they're telling you.

They joined the game to have a good time. They aren't having a good time. They want to quit. They accept the loss and give you a win... and walk away.

You win. Take your win. A lot of the people complaining about concedes are people pub stomping that are irritated that people are quiting before they can stat pad enough. Frankly, it's not an honorable complaint in most cases.


Yes, there are some people that give up when they could win. But who cares? In most cases it means your team is playing below it's level and has outclassed or overly impressed the other team.


Lets leave it alone for a few days and see how the new stat system interacts with the pubstomp scene. Ideally it should enforce some more balance.

What he said!

[ThaVos]

in tournaments for dota there is a point system for towers, kills and rax's maybe base it on a point system instead of kills eg front tower 2 points mid 4 base 8 ect..

[Elmy]

Well, you've just won.
Cheer!

1 2 3 4

[Mistico]

There is nothing wrong with concede system... the problem is K/D showing in stats... i completely agree with showing wins and looses... and we need that quitting rating (that is important for a decent game) that allow ppl to take out players who always left the game with no reason...

with no K/D showing in stats... concede or simply lose will be the same... will be shown that u lost that game anyway... there is no need to worry about being killed or kill people... the only worry would be win/loose and DO NOT QUIT to do not get ur stats doomed.

this is the easiest way to solve half of problems!

[EnragedCamel]

It just pisses me off that even one person can veto a team concede.

It should be a majority decision.

[Mistico]

It just pisses me off that even one person can veto a team concede.

It should be a majority decision.
if one person wants to fight... there is no reason to dont let... its ok one person can deny the concede... its a team decision... not that couple guys want to quit... they concede and others need just to swallow it...

maybe they could create a tool to that guy who wants to quit... to asks his own concede... not to all team... just to him... i dont know if it would work (with a team vote ofc) but would help when someone needs/wants to quit but dont want to crash all team if they agree that they can go on without him...

just one idea!

[BinAly]

if one person wants to fight... there is no reason to dont let... its ok one person can deny the concede... its a team decision... not that couple guys want to quit... they concede and others need just to swallow it...

maybe they could create a tool to that guy who wants to quit... to asks his own concede... not to all team... just to him... i dont know if it would work (with a team vote ofc) but would help when someone needs/wants to quit but dont want to crash all team if they agree that they can go on without him...

just one idea!

No way. Own concede is the same as allowing to quit and abbandon your team.

The best sollution is:

Concede is a button that once pressed, cannot be unpressed. If at least three people of a team pressed the concede button, the match is conceded, and the opposing team wins.

HoN is a team based game, if your team isn't working together, there is no reason to force them to play together.

Search for an even match, stop Pubstomping.

Also, Kicking should be a team-only vote.

[Mistico]

No way. Own concede is the same as allowing to quit and abbandon your team.

The best sollution is:

Concede is a button that once pressed, cannot be unpressed. If at least three people of a team pressed the concede button, the match is conceded, and the opposing team wins.

HoN is a team based game, if your team isn't working together, there is no reason to force them to play together.

Search for an even match, stop Pubstomping.

Also, Kicking should be a team-only vote.

my thinking is... if u let them to kick others... why not let them to quit by vote?

just one example... something happened and i need to quit... i can talk to team... and offer my concede... if they understand they can accept and let me go with no penalties... if they dont agree i may stay or quit with penalties...

simple like that! (but as i said its just one idea for those who insist in concede the whole game)

I think the majority of concedes happen when the game is far from beeing over.

I played dota for a long time and saw some sick comebacks... those are the games i like! And I absolutely hate it when some people, who dont even understand that it might be normal to be behind in kills with a team of lategames vs a team of earlygamers, want to concede so early.

You cant imagine the amount of harrassment you get when some people want to concede and you dont. Sometimes the harrassment gets so big that even I lose my will to fight and concede even tho i think we could have turned the game.

About the "kicking should be a team option": The following happened to me. I was having a good game but after a while my team abandoned me. I was still having fun and was able to kill those guys (even tho playing 5vs1). So what happened next? They just callvoted to kick me and took their win. Well you can imagine that I was pissed.. even more since that kick counts as a disconnect and in my almost 100 games I got just that one "disconnect".

[Verne]

Even if your late game team is getting stomped by early game team does not mean the early game team will suck late game. The early game team has a huge lead on items so no matter how late game heroes you are they can still stomp you. However, if the late game team somehow manages to buy the items they need before getting stomped there is a slight chance of a come back, but most of the time stomping has caused a gold shortage so being late game team doesn't matter since you cant afford your items.

[Darkstrand]

What does this have to do with balance?

[dawgfan11]

concede is the single most annoying thing in this game i'm tired of teams giving up when they die once, it needs to be removed NOW.

[EnragedCamel]

if one person wants to fight... there is no reason to dont let... its ok one person can deny the concede... its a team decision... not that couple guys want to quit... they concede and others need just to swallow it...


This is stupid. How does it make sense to let one person veto the decision of the entire team? If they want to keep fighting they can stay in the game. Their stats won't get reflected (probably a good thing, since they'll be on their own) but at least they won't have wasted everyone else's time because of their stubbornness.

Also, if a "couple" of guys decide to concede that's not gonna happen because they are not the majority. It has to be at least 3 people.

[Ozram]

Concede system can be improved, however if you dont want to concede you can press the red hand in all votations and listen the insults of your team while they decide to stay in the fountain like nerds waiting for the end of the game.

Concede is the legal way for leavers. Leavers are the most pathetic form of players so its clear that concede shouldn't even exist. People should learn to lose.

And remember, stats means nothing, this is a beta and there are unbalance heroes so doesn't care about it.

[Dis2012]

The problem here isn't the Concede Option.
it's the leading 10+ Kills.
Eg. 15 kills vs 5 Kills.
That 3000 Gold More and a ton of EXP.

A better idea would be to reduce the Gold and Exp for Hero Kills.
If you only get the Gold and Exp for a normal creep kill for a hero kill, leading kills by 10 wouldn't matters anymore.
Even leading kills by 20 won't matters as much because you would need to lead by 30 kills to have the effect of leading in 10 kills.

[hackman5000]

Concede is the legal way for leavers. Leavers are the most pathetic form of players so its clear that concede shouldn't even exist. People should learn to lose.

This pretty much sums up conceding.

I know a few people who when they are simply 0-2 at like 10 minutes they're already crying about how "it's over guys end it". I don't mind the concede option being in the game, but 15 minutes is too quick. Late game heroes don't even get a chance to win, because their team concedes as soon as they all die in a team fight. I've had plenty of games where the team winning at 30min ends up losing because some carry or tank gets fat.

Maybe put some kind of score ratio requirement for an earlier concede, but I read in some thread (maybe this one), the teams may end up trying to feed each other to keep the game going or get to the concede requirement. Either way 15 minutes = lame, more so considering you don't apparently lose PSR for conceding.

[SuperStanos]

I have very mixed feelings about conceding.

On one hand, I like the idea for those games that I'm sure anyone who has played a pub game in DoTA has had. The ones where the other team just farms and will instantly gank anyone who goes to farm the woods or steps 2 feet past the river even forty minutes into the game simply because they have no interest in ending the game but just farming kills. Of course with stats this is only going to get worse and it'll make those games more bearable knowing that you don't have to put up with those pointless games anymore.


On the other hand, the system is abused as people have complained about. I've played games where I get a good kill streak going and people immediately want to concede and not actually figure out how to deal with the problem they have now that I have some gear and a few kills under my belt. I've had a few games where a team is basically extremely early ganking and pressure (Thunderbringer, Glacius, Scout, Legionnaire, Slither) and my team with 2 potential carries and 3 really good support heroes just wants to call it quits and not wait to beat their team by hard work farming and smart play. Concede at this point is basically a 'tuck tail and run' feature that makes me call it the sore loser clause.

It reminds me a lot of a kid getting beat in basketball so he takes his ball and goes home. It was a poor attitude then, and it's still a poor attitude now.

[winterfresh1]

Make concede available when the 3rd tower of a lane is down - problem solved.

[Verne]

Conceding is losing. How is it not knowing how to lose when you give up? You even get +1 to your losses stat and the enemy gets their win.

People keep saying stats don't matter and I'd like to believe that but there are times where you join a game and get trashtalked because your stats (or rather K: D ratio) isn't good enough for someone and then get kicked. People look at your stats and decide who you are based on that, hopefully the new PSR system is going to help with that.

[DeimosTA]

if a player already lost the fighting spirit and wants to concede. there is no stopping them. they can just idle inside the base and get disconnected eventually.

no point fighting opponents who already gave up the will to fight.

[Karmashock]

the alternative to conceding is forcing the other team to just camp in fountain for 5-10 minutes.


Decide what you'd prefer, because those are your options.


Really anyone that wants to make conceding harder hasn't thought about this very deeply.

[Ozram]

You may have reason, the problem is not the conceding system, the problem is the people.

[Ravager]

maybe create an option which disables/enables concede for that match ?

[Karmashock]

maybe create an option which disables/enables concede for that match ?
AGAIN, the alternatives are concedes or sitting in the fountain until the game ends.


Choose.:rolleyes:

[Emiscary]

The whole reason people are so concede happy is because of over fixation on K/D/A stats. Conceding wouldn't be nearly as big an issue if the above just got cut out from stats.

[BeMyFeeder]

Here is an idea on how to maybe give conceding some limitations:

Allow a team to concede only if they fulfill one or more of the following conditions:
1. Kill - Death ratio for the team is 1-X (on X insert number you think best, for example 1-5)
2. Until minute XX the team has not destroyed any enemy towers, instead they lost X towers (more than half for example)
3. Team has inferiority in numbers.
4. Entire team is dead at a certain point, for the X time.

[Aegd]

the alternative to conceding is forcing the other team to just camp in fountain for 5-10 minutes.


Decide what you'd prefer, because those are your options.


Really anyone that wants to make conceding harder hasn't thought about this very deeply.

No you're wrong.

Allowing players to concede to fast promotes a defeatist attitude. Players will give up before the game is even close to decided because they get frustrated by a streak of deaths and decides that it's easier to just wave the white flag and go on to the next game. I've seen teams give up when they are four or five kills behind and got the late game heroes to turn the match.

Another problem is also the behavior and attitude of the average HoN player. Many don't consider teamwork to be an integral part of the game and don't really try work together with their team. These are also the people who are the fastest to jump on the concede button, because they see their own failure as something that will lead to to failure of their entire team. They can't get to grips with the fact that just because they are performing poorly, doesn't neccesarily mean that the entire team is.

It's not at all uncommon to see teams concede before the 20 minute mark. In most of those cases the match was far from over.

I'd like to see a 25-30 min limit before you can concede. It's not unreasonable, and it will force people to try and work together to turn the match, or at least increase the chances of that happening. I'm sure we will still see scenarios where two players in the team are just shouting insults at each other, but these kind of events will hopefully decrease if people know that they have to stay and fight until the 30 minute mark.

[Mo4]

Yo! Problem Solved! Make an option when you create a game to have concedes show up on your stats. gg

[Verne]

Concedes do show on stats; but it's called Losses there.

[Nuk_Duck]

There should be a higher time limit, I usually won't concede a game unless we will lose without a doubt. Several times, someone on my team has wanted to concede and I hit no, and we came back and won.

[Zoler]

People saying conceding is bad are just retarded. You concede because you think you lost! Wow, he conceded to early and it wasn't over? Congratulations, you got a free win!

I don't have any problems with early concedes and leavers. Maybe you just play noobs. (btw never ever play with pubs, play with your own 5v5 team)

btw if you can't concede these players will just afk at the fountain while tabbing down and read some forums and just tabbing up now and then not to get afk. Do you want to play against afk'ers or do you want to play another game?

[Cypheir]

its prolly been said... but conceeds should only be after 30 mins or 4 rax destroyed, which ever is first.

[tehhax]

With all the new players to Dota/HoN in general its very easy at times to say 'ok we lost its over', concede is probably one of the greatest things in the game (with a ranking system that is, you dont want to simply disconnect from those games).

Also if its already 2-18 and then they get a Genocide wiping your whole team out, you lost. What concede does is save you time rather than play a game you already lost

[Korgan]

With all the new players to Dota/HoN in general its very easy at times to say 'ok we lost its over', concede is probably one of the greatest things in the game (with a ranking system that is, you dont want to simply disconnect from those games).

Also if its already 2-18 and then they get a Genocide wiping your whole team out, you lost. What concede does is save you time rather than play a game you already lost

I agree that concede is a great addition!
I think the problem that many have with concede is that they have the impression of beeing spoiled of their "deserved" win.
Most people want to "taste" the win till the end even if it's clear from 5th minute who will win.

Imho concede is only useful/suited for games where the one side has a clear advantage but doesn't wants to end the game.
I had this several times before the addition of concede.
We were down 1 Player, they played better but they didn't pushed ever because they wanted to kill us every time someone went out of the base.
They just stat farmed us.
And concede is only a way to stop this if there are no other requirements then just 15 minute mark. Every requirement is abusable.

I would also guess all problems with concede will vanish as soon as ranked gameplay is added and famous. Stacking of noobs or veterans and organised team vs randoms causes the problems that many think come from concede.

Probably the whole concde system should be remade.
Suggestion: Just add "concede" checkbox for everyone.
You can only check it once and it will stay checked the whole match.
Just let it only end the match after 15 minutes like it is now.

That way we would avoid that some vote concede and change their opinion once their team owns.
And it would stop to vote for concede. It would be more like a statement from everyone.

Btw: How long is the CD on vote now?

[tehhax]

You can vote every 30 seconds I believe.. You can concede after 15:00. Another issue while slightly off topic is when someone will disconnect VERY EARLY ON and when you attempt to remake, the other team simply denies the vote. (They have 5 minutes to reconnect but after the 5 minute mark you can no longer vote Remake, ironic isnt it?)

While I dont think the right thing is to allow a single team to vote on a remake, it is very irritating at times