Darkwood Vale Feedback

[tropicaza]

Hey guys, I'm going to make a thread for you all to post your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on the new 3v3* map Darkwood Vale.

Please try and keep your posts formatted as follows for the ease of S2 developers to find your issues.

Please keep bugs in red, suggestions in yellow, and map balance issues in green.

Thank you all, and I hope to see a lot of constructive, useful, and thoughtful posts!

[Xincolin]

Just want to say the music for Darkwood Vale is excellent :)

[Rednaskela]

Suggestion:

Simplify, or remove some of the hills in the middle. 3vs3 is juking hell in the middle. Every turn and hill you loose vision. It's just too much. Even for 4vs4 you have a hard time finding each other and you always get away.

Just my thoughts tho.

[Colinthetank]

This map would have to be smaller to play 2v2, It's well suited for 3v3. However 3v3 creates huge level unbalances with 2 people to one lane, and 1 person to their own. I would like to see this map 4v4. My initial reaction after playing on it is that the map would be kinda small for 4v4, but until you guys open that option, we can't know for sure can we :).

Second suggestion:
Move the first tier towers farther apart, it seems like after one creep wave, i am at the enemy tower already.

[Azpitt]

Bug:
I was neutral creep farming, and the lowest left spawn point (about 7 o'clock) had 2 sets of "Vulture Lord/Screechers." Wishing I had screen capped it atm.

[Puck]

Suggestion:

Simplify, or remove some of the hills in the middle. 3vs3 is juking hell in the middle. Every turn and hill you loose vision. It's just too much. Even for 4vs4 you have a hard time finding each other and you always get away.

Just my thoughts tho.

While I don't think the terrain necessarily needs to be changed, I think the different concentric circles in the middle need to be made much more graphically prominent.

[Osiris]

I suggest Mr Fielding to use the searchfunction next time :p

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=5846

[tropicaza]

Haha, yes, already one made sir :P.

[Warchamp7]

Bug:
I was neutral creep farming, and the lowest left spawn point (about 7 o'clock) had 2 sets of "Vulture Lord/Screechers." Wishing I had screen capped it atm.

This is intentional, it's able to be reproduced and is a part of gameplay

[edxs]

There's fog everywhere, which is certainly interesting.

Pudge and blink heroes love this map.

[avi1]

The lane with the single tower on each side would probably benefit from the addition of a single outpost/goblin shop in the centre of it.

[Buttink]

Awesome i like that i can play an entire match in like 30 mins (if that)

[FrostyM288]

Think the 3v3 is fine, there's as much lvl differentiation than in the solo vs two/lane in 5v5 woods map.

It'll make a very nice gank heavy map, especially with all the side routes around the towers. Tho, it would be nicer if there was a tad less fog and maybe a slimmer map to make ganking quicker.

[Anura]

1. The end-game score pops before the animation of the tree-growing / skeleton emerging is finished. And there's no fading effect. I'm sure this is not working right.

2. On the Hellborne side: after the Sacraficial Shrine dies, the fissure on the ground is oriented as " / ", but the tree roots grow out as " \ ".

3. Since this is a new map, I think it deserves a new "Kongor", just like Watchtower. The "different maps have different super bosses" theme should be preserved.

4. An outpost (Goblin) shop would be really handy

[bzk]

The middle of this map should be renamed to JUKE CENTRAL.

I also wish that it wasn't KONGOR as the boss, and someone nice and badass looking (original i mean, kongors a badass)

The map itself is very nicely done but is more fit for 4v4, please allow us to test what 4v4 on the map would play like.

[Volff]

a river around kongor would be nice to make runes more noticeable

[Anura]

A single rune spot near where Kongor is will make this map totally bad ass (I mean good).

[bonerlord]

Picky but im not sure if this happens on the original map but when the hellbourne win, and the tree grows or whatever, the little plants grow in the middle of the still visible crack..finicky i know..but just thought i might say

[Nocjunior]

Suggestion:

Simplify, or remove some of the hills in the middle. 3vs3 is juking hell in the middle. Every turn and hill you loose vision. It's just too much. Even for 4vs4 you have a hard time finding each other and you always get away.

Just my thoughts tho.

Agreed, juking is a huge part of gameplay, but with the overlapse of a ledge on almost every corner juking can turn into a nightmare when you're blocked off on all angles by hills. Other than that I really do enjoy the map, change Kongor and make something else ;)

[stevefox]

For me (playing Legion), it was very difficult to determine where the hills were going down into the hellbourne lane

[BotD]

I played my first game on it.
Overall experience: enjoyable.
I realize that the cons are more than the pros but I very much enjoyed this map.Post haste is a godsend. It was rough with steamboots. Have a scroll at all times.

Cons:
First two towers are a bit too close.
Pathing is weak imo.
ANOTHER forest...
Map layout could use some improvement at the section near the bases. I find it weak.

Pros:
Exciting/shorter gameplay.
Lots of juke/gank spots.
Cozier atmosphere.

[awowa]

There is a black line running across the bottom of a hill on the bottom lane where the sent and the scourge trail changes. I'll try and get a screenshot the next time I can get in a game.

[Eccentrikit]

Alot of the trees in the middle section of the map cannot be eaten via Runes of Blight. And you lose vision very easily in the middle section of the map. This makes Keeper of the Forest a must in this map, since his enchanted trees are harder to get rid of, and gives vision to the entire area.

[Lyte]

Suggestions:

1) Map is far too wide. It's very difficult to gank across the map without TPs, and thus the map focuses too much on individual lane performance.

2) Creeps are almost meaningless on this map, because of the fast-paced action and few towers, you have no choice but to always lane or push, or risk losing a lane.

3) Pushing and INT heroes are more biased on this map than even the regular map for various reasons.

[Dis2012]

The new 3v3 map is great.
I have never gotten a match that last more than 15 mins.
Within 5 mins and 1 would rage quit.
Leaving it 2 vs 3.
And thus when the 15 min timer comes they concede and the end.

Since it's such a small map and short game.
Heroes with AOE attacks are getting a great advantage.

[Khaos`]

I like the map, but I see no reason why you have to limit it to 3v3's. You should allow people to play 4v4's on it, or even a 5v5 if they so desire. Perhaps you could put a "suggested players" comment on the map, or something. (If this is already the case, excuse me for my misunderstanding.)

The same boss is disappointing, but I figure that's a temporary thing. The boss of the level should definitely be a little weaker, since you have less players to fight him with.

Another thing I found out is that ALL the maps are really unfriendly towards new players because none of them mark the rune-spawns on the minimap. I still can't find the spawns, even after running around the forest for 10 minutes. You should think about adding a little rune-spawn icon on the minimap, or possibly have a little shrine where the rune spawns on each map or whatever.

My last issue with the map was that it was the same terrain as the other two maps. I was hoping we could get a mountain theme, or maybe a map that was in a huge dungeon, or something else cool. I understand that requires a phenomenal amount of work to create, but man it would be much better than the current "different forests" thing you have going on right now. You should at least think about having a different tileset for each map.

EDIT: Also, thanks for the two-lane map. I'm really looking forward to the one-lane map so I can do 2v2 -om style with my friends. :D

[HuMAn_INsANe]

My first impressions:

- Darkwood Vale should have a caption below the map > Gankfest and a fight for higher ground in the middle of the map. The two lanes is like an illusion players need to overcome because this map is won by sticking together and ganking. Certainly acheived "fast paced", but the game can last a long time if the teams are even.
- Observer wards are MUCH of a stronger item on Darkwood Vale, especially with the many hills and mountains on Darkwood Vale.
- The runes are too close together with nothing in between the two to stop anyone from obtaining them without notice. It's VERY easy to control runes. Bottle is a necessity for casters/gankers.
- Gank classified heroes have a much bigger advantage than others. The lanes are well done, but they benefit gank heroes. Calling mia and being aware of the minimap is a necessity. Certainly not a beginner map. Great for easy mode, not so much for normal mode, though.
- I suggest that kongor is on lower ground than he is. Who is going to check kongor all the way at the top of the mountain. The mountain should be lowered a level or two. Less hills and cliffs in general, it's a fog of war battle middle.
- Blink is strong on Darkwood Vale as well as attack ground abilities such as: Devourers hook and Valk's arrow.
- Very hard to rebound from an early loss.

I played a 50 minute game on Darkwood Vale and had a disappointing loss. We were struggling early because they had better early game heroes and they were controlling the runes. We lost our left side of barracks around the 30 minute mark. Somehow we go the game to last 50 minutes. By that time myself (Devourer) and my ally (Madman) were ready to turn the game around. We pushed and as we were killing the right set of raxx we realized there was a massive wave killing our throne. None of us had a port, so we rushed back to base. We didn't even come close to making it in time and lost a game that should have been ours with a little more time.

I don't see the point of this map. From what I've experienced and read from others it's a fast paced gank map. If this is supposed to be a quick alternative, why play a carry hero? Why play a lot of the heroes? I feel like this map could be great and it really does have some nice stuff behind it.

S2, now that you have 3 maps it's important to balance heroes according to the maps available. It would be exciting and interesting to have different tournaments dedicated to a specific map though. Just like grand slams in tennis. 4 different grand slams, 4 different tennis courts (clay, hardcourts, grass, weather, etc..).

New map, high expectations. First game a blast because it's something new. Cool things to look at (The giant squirel), but once you figure out what's what, it can become a very annoying. I am sure everyone is very excited this map has come out. Fun to play on just like others, but I believe you guys have gotten ahead of yourselves for now. This next patch should have a lot of balancing if this map wants to be played on.

[Zifle]

My first game in the map (me alone), I noticed a giant rat in some trees, so being Valkyrie i decided to jump over there. Usually i would expect myself to get stuck in trees until CD is over, but i was able (unable to do anything else really) to walk down the hill to the right. It felt like a bug walking there. I was not able to walk up again though.

Besides from that, I must say i love the map! Can't wait with getting some friends together to play some 2v2!

[it1]

It's way too easy to juke using the middle of the map. Too many hills that kill fog every 2 seconds. Not only that but there is too many different paths in the middle for a 3v3 enviorment. The amount of different twists and turns would be better suited for a 5v5 setting. Also, the runes are too far out of the way. It's a pain in the ass getting to them :/

[Travakh]

The map is great, but a very big problem in pubs? One rax down is usually good game.

In 5v5 the odds are a lot higher a player is ready to port back when the creeps are rushing, and if a rax is down in lane you have a good five minutes or so to leave it unattended before it becomes a problem (i.e. goes for throne)

The paths are a lot shorter here so if one lane is down, a player *must* be babysitting it constantly, turning it into a 3v2. I've won several games by early pushing a lane down and waiting/farming.

Having a map emphasize early game brawling is great, but unlike the 5v5 maps there's much less room for a rebound if an early mistake is made in lane selection or lack of tp.

Also the runes favor hellbourne side, they're much easier to get to from hellbourne and are much closer to hellbourne secret shop. Move them up a bit.

[Gork]

The elevations need to be graphically clearer as they are very prevalent.
This map SCREAMS for 4v4. I know it was said it will be a 4v4 map, but it feels odd 3v3.

[ma5]

I love it, it is perfect in a lot of ways, though I wish cliffs and hills were more pronounced so I could see theme easier.

Also, what about warding spots? Was this taking into consideration when making the map? There should be good ward spots where like 2 wards can see most of the middle area.

[Travakh]

Also, I suggest labelling the map as 'not newbie friendly'. 3v3 is more hectic and fast paced, and players new to the game will be really ostracized, as there is a razor thin margin of error on this map.

That being said a 8v8 one-lane map for newbies would also be a great 4th map, labelled 'newbie friendly' or something.

[BleBla]

I did not like to play as hellbourne in this map, that direction makes me daze, I don't think that it's because i'm not used to it but i felt uncomfortable.

[HonStinks]

The camera was all messed up. I played alone to test the new map and Valkyrie, I don't have a match ID but I set the game to private and I think it was EU9, this was approx. 3 hours ago if that helps.

I don't know if the player count has any glitching effects because I didn't change it to anything, I dunno if the default is 5v5 on Darkwood and iirc there is some limit that you can't even have bigger than 3v3.

Anyways, the camera was from a ground perspective and the ground textures were nothing but black, it was playable in the sense that it WORKED but it was unplayable in the sense that the camera was all bonkers.

This prolly isn't even related to the map but it was Darkwood where this problem appeared.

[Travakh]

Also another good idea would be lowering starting gold. I random and start with 1250 gold which is kind of ludicrous - on several heroes that gives me permanent lane staying power.

[KARTlK]

GREENTEXT:

Hills in lanes are way too imba. I don't know why they are compared to Forests, but they are.

+1 for this map though, my friends and I only in house on this map now.

[_swEEt]

Bug:
I was neutral creep farming, and the lowest left spawn point (about 7 o'clock) had 2 sets of "Vulture Lord/Screechers." Wishing I had screen capped it atm.
thats called creep stacking if u lure the creeps away fromt he spawn around 50 sec mark new creeps will respawn there at the 00 mark u prolly did it by accident

[_swEEt]

i personally didnt like the map playing on that angle was weird and i found it is varstly better for ranged than melee as u get fogged by those ramps so much there way to close but sitll nice try

[Mantooth]

My thoughts:

Don't like the way it is oriented. I was Hellbound and was really confused that I wasn't on top. I think it would feel more natural if the map was oriented the same way as the normal map (ie Hellbound top right and Legion bottom left).

I also feel that the opposing towers are too close to each other at the start of the game, and that the incline is too steep. Seemed like it was 2 levels high instead of one.

I also think I would enjoy it more as a 4v4 map. Just not as much a fan of the 3v3.

[Dotapants]

<---was sad to see there were no new creeps/boss

[Tidus1]

only thing i noticed that needs to be changed?

1005 starting gold default in 3v3, needs to be standard 5v5 starting gold

[Giraffe]

-Kongor again? Where's my unique boss!
-Another idea you could do is remove kongor and instead make no boss to kind of focus too more hard core clan play

@tidus, that's up to the gamemode/main game not the map bro

[Stupy]

Tbh this map should be 4v4

[HappyNihil]

This map definitely needs to be 4v4. Imo it would work better than 3v3. It´s kind of too big for 3v3 and having 2 lanes for 3 hereos is always problematic.

Gfx bug that I haven´t encountered elsewhere so I´m posting here:
when the game starts, the camera lies at 0 degrees from horizon, making the screen completely black. Hitting backspace solves the problem, but most people won´t notice that it´s cause by camera and not some unsolvable bug.

The slopes on both lanes are way too near the middleground. It happens all the time with heroes that kill primarily via nukes, that you get enemy hero to red health and want to finish him off, hes running away, you chase him, prepare the spell, target and click but before the effect takes place the enemy hero gets to highground and it breaks your spell AND pathfinding. remove the slopes or give more space to the lowland

It´s unnatural, that Scourge is at the bottom and Sentinel at the top, leads to confusion when you read kill reports and missjudge what happens because of the colours not corresponding to top/bottom but sentinel/scourge.

[Warchamp7]

The new Hellbourne building has no name

[Timeetyo]

1. The tower spacing just feels wrong. The space between the 2 towers is way too small which really changes the laning feel (for the worse). Additionally, the space between the base and the tower is too far. This makes tower diving with a snare (like armadon) very easy.

2. The hills seem to have behave differently with the fog. It may just be their orientation, not being used to the map or something, but it just seems weird. Perhaps you could make the fog show just a TINY bit more up the hills in the lanes.

3. Combining the above 2 isses, you have given ranged heros a HUGE advantage in laning compared to normal. It is way too easy to sit on the top of the hill and last hit while inside the fog from complete safety.

4. Runes definately favor the bottom with thier current placement.

5. The vast number of hills and wacky treelines make heros with blinks or other unique features (devourer) more powerfull than on forest. There are so many places to hide.
6. Where is my outpost?!? I desperately miss it and want it back badly. This really hurts your staying power in lane if you are used to picking up items there. It also makes you REALLY pay for not carrying a TP scroll.

[shine]

You can access the south secret shop from the hill right behind it. Compared to the north shop its unfair because being up on higher ground gives you leverage.

[zykIon`b]

Clicked to TP Bottom (left lane) on minimap, ended up TPing top (right lane)

[bhuga]

Please allow 5v5 on this map using an advanced option. While I completely understand wanting to *balance* the map for 3v3 or even 4v4, some of us non-pros have fun with gonzo games, and crowded lanes right from the start are just that. Think about folks (like me) who used to play 5v5 -aremom.

[Lexi00]

Not a huge fan, mostly as you've not allowed 4vs4. 3vs3 just feels limited, and unbalanced. The map itself fine I guess, I'm not a fan of quick games either so I am perhaps not the best person to comment about this. I won't be using this map.

[DrRisan]

The lanes are very hard to run through in the jungle, trying to get away from the other team and the seeing that the route is blocked and I have to go from a whole another direction. Makes it a bit harder, but I've only played it once, I think I'll try it a few more times before I can say anything contructive.

I myself was disappointed by the theme and Kongor, but it doesn't matter, I can wait for new maps to come with new themes ;), no worries. I like the map, but I feel that the two towers on the lane are too close to each other, moving them a few steps back would make it better, now if you are being followed, they will follow you through the first tower and eventually kill you because the distance is so far from tower to tower between base tower and lane tower.

[Vadi]

My first game in the map (me alone), I noticed a giant rat in some trees, so being Valkyrie i decided to jump over there. Usually i would expect myself to get stuck in trees until CD is over, but i was able (unable to do anything else really) to walk down the hill to the right. It felt like a bug walking there. I was not able to walk up again though.

Besides from that, I must say i love the map! Can't wait with getting some friends together to play some 2v2!


Its not a bug, it's the anti-stuck feature

[Chadwich]

Balance issue.

On the bottom side, leading into the Hellborne base, each lane has a steep hill that prevents line of site and gives an advantage to those defenders sitting at the top of it.

The top Legion base doesn't have these hills. I believe the lanes need to be mirrored on each side in order to give each side an equal advantage. Each lane should have steep hills leading into their base that give the defenders an advantage in sight and attack.

Further more, I think the overall mirror of the lanes needs to be looked at. I am fine with the jungle being different on each side but I think the lanes would certainly benefit from a mirroring.

Also, making the bottom and top lanes different from one another might be a nice way to add depth to your map. The top lane for Legion has a tower closer to the base while the bottom lane has one farther. The opposite would be true for the Hellborne.

This would add a level of interest and depth into your map and the lanes people choose to fight in.

Thank you in advance for reading this. I hope it helps! :-D

[BT]

Coming from a noob, I would like to see a 4v4 option for this map.

Had alot of fun in 3v3, but as soon as one gank happened it was basically over in most scenarios.

Also agree with the LOS issues.

I think the center area is too complicated, and the lanes are too simple. Maybe reduce the number of creeps and pathing obstructions in the center, and take the lanes on a little more complex path slightly into and then out of the center.

[Timzki]

My thoughts:

Don't like the way it is oriented. I was Hellbound and was really confused that I wasn't on top. I think it would feel more natural if the map was oriented the same way as the normal map (ie Hellbound top right and Legion bottom left).



then whats the point in having a new map if u want the other one to be similar to the old ones? :S

[korDen]

- LOS is bad
- Lack of Outpost shop is a major issue (no way to buy TP)
- Runes are placed in bad places imo
- Forrest is harder to farm on early levels. I'd suggest swapping red and yellow creep spawn points
- there is no fence around the base, so there is no way to tell if a team is backdooring or not (on other maps, you may enter with creeps from one lane and destroy tower that guards other lane)

[Dustbin]

The middle is much too wide for 3vs3, way better suited to 4vs4, if it is going to stay 3vs3 the lanes should be a little closer.


Really need an outpost somewhere on the map.

[SolidStroke]

1. If there are going to be new maps, I suggest indicating rune placements on the minimaps.

2. As mentioned, LOS is terrible as soon as you're in the woods. Maybe easy escapes in the woods are a feature, not a bug; it just irritated me. I don't mind keeping the jungle as tight as it is, but maybe incorporating some objects/models you can see through, but can't chop down? (Talking about when trying to get into the middle of the map. Example:
& = tree
- = opening
* = suggestion for object you can see through but isn't a tree
Before: &&&&-&&&&
After: &&&*-*&&&
Either that, or going easier on the hills, I litterally had no idea which way was up.

3. I'm not sure whether I like the easy neutral creeps being in the middle of the map or think it's balanced for characters who need to do some mild jungling. I'll have to play some more.

[Kry1]

Disappointed to see the same 'forest' theme. How about some deserts/tundra/cities?

[Elman1]

Massing Str heroes with disables seems to be stupidly effective 3vs3, especially in a small map that lets them run away and heal fast (Phase boots). You can't even counter them with items because the game ends too soon, except for the Behemoth (Phase boots...).

Other than that, good map. Although I'd like 4v4, more gold income so you can buy more items, and maybe stronger (More HP) towers.

And / orientation, rather than \: that's just change for change's sake.

[Oxrana]

Suggestion:
-Remove votekick for small maps like that . If one team lose - they just start spamming votekick for player with lowest stats. After that they can leave without a penalty.
Suggestion:
-Add a capturable flag near Kongor so players can tp on it . It will make a game more interesting. (IMHO)

[Lerlerson]

Hey guys, I'm going to make a thread for you all to post your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on the new 3v3* map Darkwood Vale.

Please try and keep your posts formatted as follows for the ease of S2 developers to find your issues.

Please keep bugs in red, suggestions in yellow, and map balance issues in green.

Thank you all, and I hope to see a lot of constructive, useful, and thoughtful posts!

-As it stands, it is incredibly difficult to come back from losing even one melee barracks.
-Rune placement is odd. They... seem to favor the bottom.

-I would like to see an outpost on the little outcropping part facing the outside of the map where both sides meet on each side.
-Give this map its own boss like it deserves! I was thinking something voodoo-related would be cool, what with all the skulls around. Maybe the drop could reanimate a dead enemy hero for 2 minutes when used to last hit the aforementioned enemy hero? Could be cool.
-Needs its own loading screen, and a more distinctive logo than it currently has. A brown tree does not a good icon make.

Unrelated to Darkwood Vale, but related to future map releases:
-I'd like to see a new theme. Forests are cool and all, believe me, but they get old. Why not a snowy mountain? Could have a yeti boss. Or a sandy beach type area. Could replace Runes of Blight with a different item so as to eat different elements on the battlefield.

-Another suggestion. To mix up the feel of the battle a bit, why not introduce different subfactions? Obviously, we've currently got the forest creatures of the Legion, but surely the Legion of Man is not limited to these forces? Why not a map set in a, like said before, snowy mountain type area with humans instead of trees? Likewise, I imagine that while the Hellbourne are always demon-type people, simply looking at the heroes they employ, they can't be totally bound to the selection we have now? Just something to mull over.

[Jaalii]

Same problem I mentioned with Watchtower. This map has WAY too many cutbacks and the flow is ALL wrong. There is no easy way to the secret shop, no easy way to Kongor, no easy way across the map, and no easy way to any of the creep spawns. This maps layout makes me want to /wrist.

[Yuspean]

After two games that I really enjoyed (gj!):


Give the towers on this map more HP or give them some healing ability as right now there is no time to stop a push.
make the map a bit less wide, maybe take the lanes a bit more inside and add some out-side, as low-number of players require higher maneuvering ability from the players.
teleportion - make the stones chipper OR add a capture-able building in the middle for teleport purposes OR let players pay for teleport from base without holding a stone at their pocket.

Also there is a problem with the fact that 2 thirds of the group are getting under-leveled.

[Colcut]

tower positions need to be changed. After that good map. Who ever downs the first tower set first generally wins because of the extreme pushing ability and how closely linked the forest is to the next set of towers. Also there are only 3 towers total not 4. Add an extra tower between the first set (in the middle) and the second set (base outskirts)

Also Add Outposts !!! They are awesome. If you want to promote forest fights, stick them just in the forest, near the first set of towers (between them), one on each side Imo. or if you dont want to promote forest fights, same spot opposite side, near the edge of the map (and that yellow creep set).

Not limited to this map however, LOS up and down hills is really annoying, shouldnt be completely non existent, (make it either a flat percentage drop or make it based upon angle if you have a spare few hours to code)

[Pooton]

I don't really see the point of neutral creeps since the map so small and you don't really have time to not be in a lane

[Brad1]

I disagree Pooton. I played a 3v3 inhouse last night before bed, primarily to test the map with my friends, and both teams spent a lot of time neutraling while waiting to gank.

[S2Alonso]

I think we do plan on eventually opening this map up to 4v4 maybe even 5v5, we just wanted to start it off with 3v3.

We definitely want to do new themes textures props (as opposed to just forests) and hopefully even creeps and of course bosses. That will obviously take more time, and right now the priority is heroes and optimizing (we kind of snuck this map in on our off time).

Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming :)

[Guile]

Hey alonso there was this old program called "DotA Theme Manager" (can find it on tda forums) that allowed players to change the theme (terrain) of there game without really changing anything. Maybe some different textures wouldn't be too hard to implement and add a little variety

[kYm0]

This map seems to heavily favor fast heroes over anything else.
Im feeling in current situation of 3v3, the gap between the lanes is bigger then they are in Forest of Caldavar, since the map usually plays out in 2v1 scenarios in each lane, helping team mates is a long trip, unless you got Stone of Post Haste.
I would see the lanes end up a bit closer to eachother.


But pros is the rune placements and the Secret shop placement, as well as the overall feeling of the map.
Maybe put the lanes around where the runes is, and put the runes on the outside, where the current lanes go.

[SyyRaaaN]

Great map. Would be cool if you would experiment with different tilesets, like ice, desert and so on. Adds to the variety. Takes a long time to learn a new map and the jukespots but my first impression is that its nice. Great idea with the 2 lane sulotioun.

No complains except for Roshan seems a bit aggressive :P i moved by him and he aggroed me. No big deal.

[Sabre]

The biggest thing I feel should be changed is the lack of outposts and/or the size of the map. The forest at times feels unnecessarily large, and the lack of outposts means its far to easy to be caught without a TP scroll and lose the other half of the map. I think that the secret shop could be cut down to 1 and have the other replaced with an outpost, and perhaps relocated for balance.

[HammerHand]

Suggestion:
-Add a capturable flag near Kongor so players can tp on it . It will make a game more interesting. (IMHO)

That doesn't sound like a bad idea, can really help if you've lost a tower.

-Not entirely sure if this is a bug, but along bottom lane there are gaps in the tree's. Easily saw a pudge moving into position to hook. If you need a reference: Time ~10 - 10:30am Central time (I don't know f'ing time zones), pestilence, nymphora, Chronos (he left) Hellbourne. Thunderbringer, Devourer, Defiler.
-Move T1 towers a bit closer to base
-Possibly give the defending teams creep's 1 upgrade on the lane of a lost tower to help prolong the games a bit, so much pressure on the base without the T2 towers in place.
-As well T1 towers could probably use a bit of a buff in HP and maybe damage. Early game pushers are hard to deal with.
-NEED OUTPOST! How can you support the other lane when you have to always have a TP on hand from base, end up spending excessive amount of $$ on tps. =(

[Vadi]

I love the design. The map is actually quite beautiful (but the bases are bare).

Also, there is an OMG size chirpnel:

http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/20453/shot0011_oK4tmg.jpg

http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/20454/shot0010_YJu9GW.jpg

[ChimEuphoria]

I enjoyed this map immensely as Zephyr, leap works wonders for zipping in and out of neut camps.

Neuting felt seamless with laning, like instead of trekking away to somewhere inconveniant like the regular map, transitioning between laning and neuting was very fluid.

[Thotor]

There should be an outpost shop somewhere. to buy tp scroll or other minor items.

[dan121]

My first and only game was a win on the new map. I don't expect to ever play it again though. We had Thunderbringer and Defiler in an SD and basically made it a non contest. It wasn't fun at all, and everyone in the game agreed that 5v5 on the normal map was more fun.



My buddy was walking past the black on the minimap.
The fog on the top lane was unbearable. My enemy was just able to stand on the top of the hill while I was stuck in the valley and deny and last hit with no problem. Please make the valley longer or get rid of that valley.

[OpMindcrime]

(we kind of snuck this map in on our off time).

Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming :)
Hey hey HEY!! What's this 'off time' business?!?
Unacceptable! ...wait 'till Maliken hears about THIS! :D
Half rations again, I tells ya! And double beatings, to boot!

[Nuk_Duck]

(bug or not?) In both lanes, there are small spots between the long line of trees where it is easy to notice would-be gankers approaching from that side.


Please, get rid of the hills in both lanes or straighten them a little. It's incredibly irritating to have my enemy disappear early game as soon as im firing off that final nuke, especially with the fact that where the hill starts and is hard to tell.

I miss my outposts :(.


Juking is incredibly easy with how dense the forest is.

Runes favor the players on the bottom portion of the map.

[bzk]

This map is 3v3, this means the games will be quicker and more fast paced. Conceding in this map is RETARDED. Concede should not be enabled on the map. The point of concede is once you accept that no matter WHAT you do, you will lose, and admit the loss and thus saving time. Games on the map last SO MUCH SHORTER and concede makes it EVEN SHORTER. There should be exceptions though, like when it's 2v3 the team with 2 should be able to concede regardless of the time in the match.

[Techies]

1. If there are going to be new maps, I suggest indicating rune placements on the minimaps.

This

PS. I like the hills, makes the game more interesting. Just needs be easier to identify.

[toxicity802]

Map looks... interesting to say the least. I'm yet to try it in a proper match (just tested it solo) but I like the overall concept of it.

In regards to the hills as someone mentioned, I think if anything they just need to be more defined and noticeable. At least along the bottom lane anyway, I started missing attacks as you do when you attack uphill and it took me a few seconds to notice that I was actually at the bottom of a hill.

[drakky]

Don't know if its a bug, but I keep losing on this map.

[Wilwariniel]

For the character Slither in particular, hills are a nightmare. His venom spit.. thing... whatever, the one that goes in a line, goes straight and doesn't adjust for height. This is a problem on the first map (and is a problem in DOTA), but only when crossing the river. Since this map has way more hilliness, he has more problems.

[furu]

This map is good when all players are good, as public I find this kinda meh.

Many "juke places", a bit too much uphills etc.

[azianinvazn]

I really think that you should remove the 3v3 limit and make it playable with 5v5, just because. And remove 3v3 from the name. Even though this sounds unconventional, it would probably be fun in some way.

Waaayyy too easy to juke on this map, I'll go ahead and chime in with the others.

I've been playing it all day though and I love it. It seems much more balanced for a 3v3 setting than the regular DOTA map is. Makes for quick, short, fun games.

[Kocky]

There is no GANG possible at ALL before the first towers are down! Played Valkyre and was unable to gang anything cause they can just keep playin defensively and u can hide at their tower. Aint possible to come from a Side or from the Back, so this map Favours Pushing and Carry-Heroes.

As the Map is waaaay to big for 3v3 and it takes 20s from top to bottom lane it need be adjusted in size and more importantly it needs to have gang Spots at the Towers, just compare first Towers of the 3v3 with the Dota-like Map!

Wont play 3v3 sofar, cause map sucks atm, sticking to 5v5 on balanced map!

[bzk]

It's gank, saying gang makes it sound like you're gang raping the guy

[OpMindcrime]

I think you're going in the right direction bzk...

[Saekki]

Defiler is too OP (in this map).. Even if U manage to gank her 3-6 times, she'll just push towers in split second... And in 3v3 U don't have enough nuke/disaple to keep her in bay.

[Nuk_Duck]

Defiler is too OP (in this map).. Even if U manage to gank her 3-6 times, she'll just push towers in split second... And in 3v3 U don't have enough nuke/disaple to keep her in bay.

Had a similar problem in one of my games. The problem is that this map heavily favors pushers and carries and causes large problems for gankers, as someone said before.

[JMKeynes]

The map is fun. Being a smaller, quicker play, it tends to favor int characters with a good casting range (the post above this mentions Defiler), who perform well early. I would suggest, to even it out a little, work the terrain a bit, especially the hills in the middle lanes, the fog of war that settles there is absolutely a game breaker for many melee units.

Overall it is a fun and fast map, but has some kinks related to:
Fog of War
Complicated terrain leading to unit pathing errors
Steep inclines that are not apparent from the classic RTS viewpoint (see lanes, near middle, near tree banks).

[endo]

After playing quite a few games with pubs, 3v3 clans, and 3v3 inhouse games, i've found:

The middle section is far too convoluted. The concentric-circle style maze/hill design causes a ton of problems.

Blink-like skills and things that go over cliffs/trees are really, really good.

There are also lots of blind corners. This is heighted by the fact that the middle area is very hilly and has lots of elevation changes, so seeing and engaging an enemy hero becomes more a game of luck than skill.

The narrowness of the paths in the center make positioning in fights a hassle, which benefits certain heroes and makes a few others useless.

Overall the lines of trees and cliffs are just simply too long. They create walls in the map that make playing on it awkward and sometimes annoying. The hills and cliffs make vision a huge problem, and the maze-like structure leads to bad unit pathing. Elevation changes are unclear from a graphical standpoint, which makes it hard to see if you can actually take certain paths or not, ie: a hole between two trees looks passable, but an undetectable cliff prevents units from walking down.

On a side note, a lot of these vision problems caused by the structure of the middle area are alleviated by buying 2-3 sets of observer wards. The fact that wards have INFINITE STOCK and NO COOLDOWN is absolutely GAME BREAKING in any map. If HoN hopes to be competetive in any way this NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.

[Ryno2112]

I like the map a lot. This map, I think, will bring back the fad of using blink dagger on any and every hero, but only for the map. it brings new level to juking as you can juke out by running or juke out by blinking. Gangking, imo, is very big in the map. Playign defensive loses games, in my experience at elast, you have to be able to play offensive as well as save your towers when needed, but pushing and gangkign should be happening very fast in this map.

I'd say it's a very good first 3v3 map. Looking foreward to more good maps from you guys.

[Voldo1]

Would appreciate runespots having an icon on the minimap like the neutral creep camps - it would not only alert newbs to their presence but also allow people to see where they are on new maps. I personally think the runes are too close to oneanother on this map, maybe putting them outside of the centre would make them more of a challenge to access (since runes are vital and all that), but what would I know.

Oh, and I like how useful wards are here.

[Valkyrie5]

Just went 25-3 as devourer, this map is hooking paradise.

AI pathing is a huge issue with a lot of the thin paths through the forest, but i know you guys said you were working on that

[ndclub]

This map is 3v3, this means the games will be quicker and more fast paced. Conceding in this map is RETARDED. Concede should not be enabled on the map. The point of concede is once you accept that no matter WHAT you do, you will lose, and admit the loss and thus saving time. Games on the map last SO MUCH SHORTER and concede makes it EVEN SHORTER. There should be exceptions though, like when it's 2v3 the team with 2 should be able to concede regardless of the time in the match.

Even in worst case scenario this is no reason to take away concede. If you dont want to concede you can refuse. If you dont want them to concede you just got a free win if they do. I really dont see what the problem is with a short game. Conceed will stop players from farming each other instead of ending the game and is a nessessity with current stats.

[BaiStavri]

Had a similar problem in one of my games. The problem is that this map heavily favors pushers and carries and causes large problems for gankers, as someone said before.
Same,but in the game I played,I was Defiler :) genocide 3 times and the other team conceded.
Anyways,the map is good,good thing that you make different stuff,in my opinion the map is better on 2vs2,but it is still good.I completely agree that there is no single chance to gang unless you destroy the first tower.It is hard to go to the other team forest too.

[DaiLo]

The new map is not "intense" at all. maybe if you let a 5v5 in there it would alot more intense. But with 6 people - the map is too spacious. Ganking lanes requires your hero to run through the entire map. I'm sure it would be chaotic with 10 people but with 6 people - the map is just - not bad.

[Astah]

I feel it is too big.

The lanes are a bit of a pain being on the very outskirts of the map, which gives you plenty of warning if you're watching lanes to back out if you're foresting.

[RenoFox]

A few points already mentioned by others that I agree with:
-It would be great if this was 4 v 4.
-A new boss in the center
-Make the size of the map even smaller if possible so that the top lane and the bottom lane can get to each other even faster.
-Revamp the center so theres a little bit more viability and less twist and turns please =]
-1 rune in the middle should be sufficient for a small map.
-Would be great to have an outpost in the center too.

Thanks.

[Avan1]

Center takes too long to run through. Can I suggest a new (ie: non dota, but you gotta branch out sooner or later) addition... A portal. You step on so glowing part of the ground and it takes you to another portal on other side. Not directly next to the lane, but bypassing the majority of all those damn cliffs. Maybe make it cost 50 mana each time...

[BadJelly]

What RenoFox said. Imo, would improve the playability and general enjoyment of this map a hundredfold. It feels a little too spacious for what it's meant to be currently, and the 3v3 feels a little sparse.

[aeternitatis]

I also agree map needs more players. I would prefer that 5v5s be allowed, and if players want to do less, they can do that themselves.

[_Archangel_]

Bug:
I was neutral creep farming, and the lowest left spawn point (about 7 o'clock) had 2 sets of "Vulture Lord/Screechers." Wishing I had screen capped it atm.

Probably accidental doublespawn, which is not a bug.

Haven't played this map yet and the server seems to be stuffed up :(

[themvk]

This might have been stated, just giving my quick opinion.

-The mega creeps and super creeps are really hard to fend off in a 3v3 to the point that once a team pushes your barracks you need to defend almost the whole game. Suggest that creeps are nerfed a little to make it more friendly to 3v3 play.
-Also it would be cool if Kongor was replaced by a special creep related to the map only IE. like watchtower with its own unique loot.

Overall I like the lay out of the map, the forest labyrinth is fun to gank people in :O.

edited for color and to make it easier to read.

[Infas]

I think dota is for 5x5 only. Teamplay.

[Zerobeast]

I personally like it being 3v3. The map size is good imo. It would be nice to have one rune though and I like the idea of a new boss for the map.

[TeckMan]

the hills are extremely powerful and frustrating. two suggestions:
move the towers farther apart so it's possible to get them more than 1-2 screens away from their hill.

also you should definitely give an outpost shop just behind the first tower of the team without the hill, also the secret shop should be slightly closer to the weaker lane's side.

it's fine to have one lane stronger than the other but it's just too much atm.

[Corpsified]

Didnt read whole thread but will post my thoughts after a few games on Darkwood.

-General Layout is good, but jungle asymmetry seems odd to me, not sure what the intention is there. Also, there are a LOT of switchbacks etc... which is probably good in the long run but pretty crazy at first.

-Towers need to be placed closer to pool, you can hang out at the enemy pool easily without being in tower range at all.

-The hills are very noticeable between the first towers. This is interesting, as blocking or pushing can become pretty important so your creeps aren't missing or theirs are. Cool mechanic, not sure what it implies for balance though yet.

-Two games in a row disconnected me right before the enemy tree died (like it seemed the disconnect was caused by death of tree). In both games I was recorded a loss instead of a win. Not good.

-having 1k gold to start is very interesting, but I'm not sure I like it. Def changes buy orders etc... May give carries too much advantage to start +500g.

Overall I enjoy the map so far, and 3v3 is pretty fun. Would love to see some refinements done and map could be a definite success.

[Pilliars_CZ]

Keeper of the Forest have problem used(e) 3 skill - lvl 1.,(e) 3 skill - lvl 2. 3. and 4. is OK.

[Pr0phecy]

I think dota is for 5x5 only. Teamplay.

Football has 11 players each side...Teamplay?

[Sordak]

i love the look of it! so much more detail its awsome.

but i have not enaugh experience to realy comment on the gameplay, but i REALY like how the map is created with creep zone in the middle. Awsome.

edit: and lulz for giant chiprel!!!

[Tafelpoot]

chiprel ruuulz

[Doikor]

Make the distance between the lanes smaller to actually make a bit more fast paced. Also make some route to gank from the tower from mid. As it is it's way too hard. Evin with godlike gankers like valkyre.

Bottom forest (hellbourne?) is so much more easier to ward then the other side. Put some trees up those cliffs to block some of that vision. Put up 2 wards and you see the WHOLE bottom forest. You can't do the same on the top.

[Harrypotte2]

I dont understand why they wont allow 5v5. It would be epic fun. 3v3 is too boring, pop 1 ward and its very unlikely u can get ganked, i mean how hard is it to keep track of 3 heroes.

[Zetsu2]

Bug! (Or is it a bug?)

When I and three friends played (2v2), I and my other friend were legion and we pushed a bit in the upper lane and took out their first tower. Then we noticed some imps were "backdooring" us in our base, and tried to take out our barracks on the lower lane side.
Not a big problem though, because everyone except one imp died of the towers. The last one, what I can remember, just stood fighting our barracks (or was it a shrine or something?) out of range of the towers, so we had to "take care" of it ourselves.

Just a minor bug I think, not very irritating though. But in my opinion, I think it should be fixed.

[MrJag]

It takes a LONG time to run from your lane to capture a rune because of the winding paths.

[Spawn10459]

This map has tone of LOS issues, creep blocking, and tree blocking issues. IDk if its the map or because you guys made creeps bigger.

Not enough cut through points for the two lanes meaning there isnt alot of options but to go gead on down the lane.

The map is too big for a 3v3

Would make a good 4v4 but still the map is to big. Move the towns closer to the middle or add in some kind of teleport stone in the middle. some thing to stop the 20+ sec to run back to town from the first tower.

[Shakrai]

You could change the angle of the map, this one doesn't feel comfortable.

* Imo, all maps should have their own creeps and neutrals, and Rosh; it would add greatly to the variety, making it seem like several different battlefields across the continent/world. Also, different tower and building models... But I think this is an idea for the far distant future!!

[Hoenhime]

i dont like it as a 3v3 map but 2v2 and 4v4 perfect...and i do wish it was a different boss other than kongor....watchtower got a different one why not this 1?

[NoTioNLeSS]

Ok, here comes a post with some content, I hope it gets viewed by an admin.

As I noticed, everyone complained about how large the map is, and I do agree, it is way too large, has alot of complicated paths and most importantly, ALOT of neutral camps.

Neutral camps is a problem, they do not contribute for a fast paced game, as in most of the times people will just battle over who can farm more, which delays the match way too much, which is not the main objective of the map.

A 3v3 map also needs to be very short, where you'd take only about 5 to 10 seconds to cross to the other lane and gank, instead of almost 20.

I made a map suggestion on the Suggestion Section, but it was obviously clouded by a bunch of other suggestions that people make every 5 seconds, so I'm asking an admin to take some consideration at this thread:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=30627

Its a perfect guide for the Darkvale Map, the suggested Wc3 map is also 2 laned and is focused on fast paced matches, the difference is that its way smaller (like a fast paced map is supposed to be) and has few neutral camps, which encourages players to gank and push.
Aside from the terrain, the map has also alot of other unique features that the HoN developers should take a look to make Darkvale even more unique from Caldavar.

[Schneider]

i dont like it as a 3v3 map but 2v2 and 4v4 perfect...and i do wish it was a different boss other than kongor....watchtower got a different one why not this 1?
They are not done with it and making new units does take a lot of time.

[antigrav]

Center takes too long to run through. Can I suggest a new (ie: non dota, but you gotta branch out sooner or later) addition... A portal. You step on so glowing part of the ground and it takes you to another portal on other side. Not directly next to the lane, but bypassing the majority of all those damn cliffs. Maybe make it cost 50 mana each time...

I like this idea though I do not feel that the center is very hard to navigate. Felt intuitive the first time to me and also I really like how you designated rune spawns. Those markers on the groun felt reminiscent of old ruins and it just made sense. I really liked that.

The one major aspect of this map that I would like to change is I feel it bis better suited for a 4v4 at the current size. Else make it smaller via actual change or only effectively as with the portal idea.

Lastly, the current towers. I realize they do more damage and fire faster than a regular tower does but they simply do not offer the same safety that a tower usually would. I realize the goal was to make this map have shorter games but this is currently not the case. Perhaps make two weaker towers instead of one stronger tower so they are able to hit more targets. And by weaker I mean that if both towers are hitting a single target they will be doing similar DPS to our standard DotA map secondary towers.

[roar]

This map is too blink friendly imo

[Gurglefluff]

what up with the giant rodent?

[sog]

would it be too extreme to suggest it be changed to left - right or bottom left to top right....

[Mindcry]

I like this map very much.
I agree that the middle part of the map has too much ups and downs, easy to get lost.
But in a general overview, its a great map.

[Vadi]

what up with the giant rodent?


See earlier. Its a chirpnel - critter in s2 and an one of those unkillable ones in hon.

This is their daddy :)

[chronoesp]

I like this map very much.
I agree that the middle part of the map has too much ups and downs, easy to get lost.
But in a general overview, its a great map.

Agree

[midget3]

Frankly, for a 3v3 it seems like there are way too many runes. Jungling in general is far too easy, especially considering that a jungler gets easy access to both runes on his way to different creep camps.

Add to this the cramped passageways and the many creep camps, and you realize that it takes relatively *more* effort to find and gank a jungler, while it's easier for him to get XP.

[PoPnWaFFLeS]

The boss for this map should be a Minotaur because he's right in the middle of JUKE CENTRAL. This map is a freaking Labyrinth. Also theres some kind of bug on the bottom left side where your up hill yet you still have vision. There's some kind of bug here please check it out.

P.S kindly add a goblin shop of some sort in addition to the secret shop.

[Alhanalem]

I don't feel its the overall size of the map so much as the gap between lanes. When you want to gank, you go missing for a very long time, cluing people in.

Narrowing the width of the space between the lanes would improve this.

[kadjutant]

Can you please make the roads around or near the hill more darker (both on game map and minimap)? coz its kinda hard to tell on the minimap if that part of the map is traversable or not

[Tostorm]

there are waaaaay to much hills in the middle of the map!

[JamesKeenan]

My feedback is that the map is fine. I simultaneously laugh and shake my head at those who bewilderingly enough think this map is too large? Seriously? Too large? That's literally absurd.


It's sad that Kongor has been recycled. I'll hope that this is changed. As well, I'm actually pleased to see a map with as many opportunities to juke, but it would be better for some of the terrain to be more level, changing the map so that some real skill and effort needs to be put in to lose your pursuers, rather than being able to run in a straight line. Keep the woods as they are, however.

[Techies]

See earlier. Its a chirpnel - critter in s2 and an one of those unkillable ones in hon.

This is their daddy :)

It's so big that the texture doesn't scale well. Making it look ugly.

[spedmunki]

The starting towers are too close to each other to effectively gank early game. They need to both be pushed back so that heroes cannot flee so easily.

[hsa]

Nothing is better than more maps :)

[Elman1]

The starting towers are too close to each other to effectively gank early game. They need to both be pushed back so that heroes cannot flee so easily.

Agreed, actually. After playing more, I'd say that the map's too wide and the lanes are too short.

[spedmunki]

Agreed, actually. After playing more, I'd say that the map's too wide and the lanes are too short.

I agreed. They should make the map longer and skinnier, because with only 3 people its pretty hard to get across those winding paths in the middle quickly to gank.

[Jknight]

Im not the most extreme player of HON but, reading all of these post. Everyone seems to be repeating about the hills having problems too much fog, and how the runes favor one side.

Now with that in mind id just like to say, these "problems" are not just problems they make the map what it is. Easy to run away in forest, big deal! Its easy to run away in the 5v5 maps. Im sorry but ive played dota for a long time (not religiously) and its always been easy to get away in any forest, people are just not used to the smaller pathing. Its 3v3 not 5v5. Oh and as far as the runes go, i dont see how they favor any side, other than the fact that there closer to the bottom this does not give them any real advantage.


oh and btw, love this map

[Marvel2]

This map is excellent, I do agree with Elman though.


Agreed, actually. After playing more, I'd say that the map's too wide and the lanes are too short.

[dannym1212]

love the map, just wish it wasnt kongor, I would like S2 to be a little more creative but it might of just been put in for the beta. I like the rune positioning and the forest setups. Its a great map. Not so great for one v one, we need a lane selection button.

[Aekaz]

There needs to be more Line of Sight to abuse. I think the map is way to open when laning and lacks juggle spots which makes ganking with a single disable WAY too easy.

[Crashbndcoot]

The lane with the single tower on each side would probably benefit from the addition of a single outpost/goblin shop in the centre of it.

get 2 outpost in this map pleeease...
one top corner one bottom corner.... :S

[HuMAn_INsANe]

The starting towers are too close to each other to effectively gank early game. They need to both be pushed back so that heroes cannot flee so easily.

Are you suggesting that it needs to be harder to kill creeps/deny early game? Imo, the map is already a gankfest and has limited creep killing chances, especially when playing a melee hero. There are plenty of gank spots, you just need to find them and kill quickly, otherwise you may need to tank a tower, but who's fault is that? The maps, or yours?

My point is not to say you're wrong spedmunki, but to make a point about this map. It seems like many people are saying that same thing and I don't believe it to be true. I feel like one person said it and most of the people after that first person are just following the trend. If your reasoning for that is because you can't gank effectively early, you need to actually evaluate the map. Look around! There are so many gank spots all throughout the entire two lanes! The only safe spot is when you're fairly close to your barracks and tower. Every other part has a slit in the trees coming from middle. At the first tower there's double the amount of gank spots. Look at the other side. The side that doesn't come from middle. If anything it's easier to gank before the first tower dies. I believe the hills are there for a good purpose and it's for this reason.

People are also saying the lanes are too far apart. Has anyone actually timed the distance from one lane to another on Darkwood Vale and timed the distance it takes to walk from one lane to another in the classic DotA map? With the same move speed? I doubt there is much difference and it's not worth complaining over. If your enemy is playing extremely well and is not giving you a chance to gank, then go farm and put observer wards on that giant mountain. When the time comes gank them in the middle free of fog...

People also say.. runes favor one side. I feel like a broken record. I was actually under this illusion myself. Look at it again please... If you travel from your base to go to the runes, yes there is a favorable side. If you're going from one lane to the other, it does not favor anyone. It's directly on the way for each side. S2 if you want people to not feel this way because I don't think my words will change opinions, put one rune in front of Kongor and eliminate the other two spots. I think it would spark interest and remove complaints.

These three things to me are first impressions, but once you play on it for a few more times you will feel different.

The biggest problem I have with this map is how unbalanced heroes are on this map.

[j3rath]

1. The end-game score pops before the animation of the tree-growing / skeleton emerging is finished. And there's no fading effect. I'm sure this is not working right.

2. On the Hellborne side: after the Sacraficial Shrine dies, the fissure on the ground is oriented as " / ", but the tree roots grow out as " \ ".

3. Since this is a new map, I think it deserves a new "Kongor", just like Watchtower. The "different maps have different super bosses" theme should be preserved.

4. An outpost (Goblin) shop would be really handy

All of the above

[Strider]

Hm , new map and music , nice ..nice indeed.

[sensetarget]

this whole map needs to be scraped and redone from scratch.
Ganking is way too easy, pudge is overpowered in this map because the tree line involves 1 tree, pudge can go around 2 feet and hook a person and gg them because there is a wall of 2 or 3 trees that block the vision everywhere.

Map's angle is very wierd, feels like I have to turn my monitor sideways to actually enjoy this map (rotate it 90 o CC).

[rve90]

Suggestion:

Disable mega creeps and simply put it as a max of 2 lanes of super creeps. It is possible to get mega creeps too early on Darkwood Vale and takes away from the map.

[Wiifi]

One game I played a few days ago, the Legion were able to heal in the Hellbourne base... Faster then the tower attacked them...

[krucifix]

Suggestions for new maps:

Make them 5v5.

Too many imbalances occur in a small map like this. Intel pushers are too good, warding of areas is too easy.

[Elessar2]

I hear alot of people complaining about the centre area being too complicated and juke-y. Surely if you spend some time getting to know the map, it won't seem so daunting? I was intimidated at first but after 3-4 games on it, i'm really starting to get the hang of the twists and turns.

[rve90]

Suggestion:

Provide a path going into the forest closer to the bases so it is easier to change lanes at an opponents base. Currently i find myself running through the inside of an enemy's base to switch lanes when pushed up that far up.

[Elman1]

Ugh, blinking is insanely overpowered in this map. A single blink brings you to safety, or deep into the stupid maze in the middle of the map.

e: Healing and disables are pretty hardcore too. With less players, their effect is much more noticeable...

[ElementUser]

Map is too big, make it smaller if you truly want to promote faster play

[Argonanth]

The rune spawns suck imo. The middle doesn't seem very symmetrical.

Personally make the forest in the center a little less maze like and have it a little more open and easyer to go from point A to point B.

[Alhanalem]

I think you could scale the whole map down by about 10% and that would do the trick as far as size goes.
Though I don't know if S2's systems have an easy way of doing this.

[Mofodaddy]

The neutral creeps seem really scattered

O and chasing threw woods is almost impossible with all the los issues

[korDen]

Could you please create a new map with a horizontal [-] orientation ( unlike current [/] and [\])? Most players have wide-screen monitors and horizontal orientation just feels better for them.

[Kipz]

Easy creep spot (snotter spawn) on upper left got some aggro problems and attacked while the ordinary creepwaves fought just outside it. I'm not sure but it could have something to do with casting spells while close to that spot.

[Drrust]

Ugh, blinking is insanely overpowered in this map. A single blink brings you to safety, or deep into the stupid maze in the middle of the map.
I'll second this one. Then again, I bet there is one of these to quote on ever page before this(started reading from the last page).

[ScorpionBlue]

I suggest a 4v4 option to the map, simply because a solo hero can be way overpowered here. I soloed a 23-3 game simply because i bought hp regen items early and never left the lane, I think the runes need to be closer to the lanes simply because it can make forest fights occur and encounters happen more often.

To call this a fast paced map is a bit of a mistake, It takes forever to cover ground to get to the other lane and it's very easy to call missing.
I agree with a new boss sort of deal, maybe since it's a 3on3 map different skills for said boss. I think this game would improve immensely if the bosses were all different and all required strategy to take down. It feels like an easy point click attack sort of deal instead of maybe the bosses having a few tricks up their sleeves.

Great map, Towers were a little close together but besides that it's very fun.

[mejobloggs]

I liked the giant rat thing in the middle of some trees. Very amusing

[Arkaen]

This is undoubtedly redundant, but I suggest that you make the forests a bit less complex.

Also, the giant rat in them is a nice easter egg, :P

[jammit]

I didn't see any map balances but i would like to see something in between after the first towers, there is way too much room for ganking there and no defense type, maybe a different kind of tower, like a patrolling sentry or something like that, i think the space inbetween makes the map too easy for some people, especially ranged, i think that should be a little more balanced

[Jahara]

Suggestion:

There should be a single rune spawn right in front of Kongor, to make the Neutral Spot more active.
And also reduce the fogs in the Neutral Area, making it easier to find each other

[EnragedCamel]

I think this map needs two sets of towers instead of just one. As it stands, you destroy one tower and arrive at the enemy base, which is ridiculous.

[Avi1231]

Had a similar problem in one of my games. The problem is that this map heavily favors pushers and carries and causes large problems for gankers, as someone said before.

Could not agree more here. For me it feels like every game is determined by pushers and tanky heroes. Accursed has been a problem in every game I've played on this map (not that he isn't trouble anywhere). This is because he's just so freakin' fat and you don't have the usual five people to beat on his face to actually take him down in a hurry. I think a great adjustment for the map would be implementing the 4v4 mode since I know they said they might try it eventually, but overall want this to be a 3v3 (which I disagree with). I think the map should be a 4v4.

[Rean]

runes are:
1)too close to each other
2)2 rune spots is too much for this type of map. 1 rune in the middle could be way better option

[David]

Suggestion:

The massive loss of LOS in the forest, with the hills and fog, etc adds kind of a neat element to the map, where you can somewhat easily disappear into the forest, with lots of juke opportunity. Perhaps, instead of crazy hills, etc, when you run into the center of the forest, your LOS is reduced to something like what it is under Dark Lady's ult. So you could disappear into the forest and escape more easily. Could be kind of interesting.

[Demus]

Map is to big. Scale it down slightly. Also the super creeps need to be not so powerful when there are only 3 heroes.

[MeePwn]

I just played the map the first time and on the one had I liked it but yet its too big, i didnt read threw all the previous comments but..
The two lanes are too far from eachother, currently it feels more of two lanes that have nothing to do with eachother, if you want a serious 3vs3 map the map should be closer so ganking is possible.
currently it feels impossible to have impact on the other side of the map if you dont have 'boots of travels'. Also there are too many small ways reminding me on a labyrinth. Sweet but just not needed and very counterproductive to me. To me it feels a little like the normal 5v5 games with just top and bot lane.
I really like the idea for just one runespot since that would provide alot of ganking and fighting for the runes everytime they spawn, mightaswell reduce the spawn times to 3 minutes or so.

tl;dr version:
-reduce distance between the lanes
-reduce amount of confusing ways threw the jungle
-one rune spot instead of one
regards

btw i didnt even find both runespots in that mess :X

[NoTioNLeSS]

Ok, here comes a post with some content, I hope it gets viewed by an admin.

As I noticed, everyone complained about how large the map is, and I do agree, it is way too large, has alot of complicated paths and most importantly, ALOT of neutral camps.

Neutral camps is a problem, they do not contribute for a fast paced game, as in most of the times people will just battle over who can farm more, which delays the match way too much, which is not the main objective of the map.

A 3v3 map also needs to be very short, where you'd take only about 5 to 10 seconds to cross to the other lane and gank, instead of almost 20.

I made a map suggestion on the Suggestion Section, but it was obviously clouded by a bunch of other suggestions that people make every 5 seconds, so I'm asking an admin to take some consideration at this thread:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=30627

Its a perfect guide for the Darkvale Map, the suggested Wc3 map is also 2 laned and is focused on fast paced matches, the difference is that its way smaller (like a fast paced map is supposed to be) and has few neutral camps, which encourages players to gank and push.
Aside from the terrain, the map has also alot of other unique features that the HoN developers should take a look to make Darkvale even more unique from Caldavar.

Quoting myself just for a bump, is an admin actually gonna take a look at all these posts?

[Gangbangjoe]

Increase the distance between the first hostile towers. It's too easy to towerdive when being ganked early game imo.

[DtMage]

Map is far too wide, takes ages to move from lane to lane. Make forest smaller and make it more simple, too much cliffs and narrow paths and that makes even moving hard, not to mention trying to hunt somebody, little missclick and your hero turns back...

[Spaztastik]

Having Kongar again as the boss of the map feels as if you are just downsizing an already made map, i suggest you create a new boss like watch tower and keep making new bosses for every new map S2 creates

[POOPYBUTT]

The locations of the runes doesn't feel intuitive. a moat around kongor's lair, as previously mentioned, would be nice.

[somonels]

The map is awesome. One thing that bugs me is that creeps somehow notice me behind the trees so I can't stalk the lanes by using the parallel inner paths. Maybe it's just me.

And does 3v3 even need a boss? I bet they have better things to do than churning out NPCs. Never even seen anyone bother with them/him, i don't even know what's in there or where the runes are.

[Jblaze1]

Bug
It seems that u can see the animations of ranged chars in the the fog... wish i got a screen but enemy was neuting and i saw his ranged animation

[LordBass]

^^^^^^^ this bug is on every map, I got a lot of ganks seeing the animation D: really should be fixed
I didn't really liked it, 2 towers per lane is dumb

[Strider]

There`s a giant chiprel on it , shame its so low rez :/

[NoTioNLeSS]

Ok, here comes a post with some content, I hope it gets viewed by an admin.

As I noticed, everyone complained about how large the map is, and I do agree, it is way too large, has alot of complicated paths and most importantly, ALOT of neutral camps.

Neutral camps is a problem, they do not contribute for a fast paced game, as in most of the times people will just battle over who can farm more, which delays the match way too much, which is not the main objective of the map.

A 3v3 map also needs to be very short, where you'd take only about 5 to 10 seconds to cross to the other lane and gank, instead of almost 20.

I made a map suggestion on the Suggestion Section, but it was obviously clouded by a bunch of other suggestions that people make every 5 seconds, so I'm asking an admin to take some consideration at this thread:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?p=30627

Its a perfect guide for the Darkvale Map, the suggested Wc3 map is also 2 laned and is focused on fast paced matches, the difference is that its way smaller (like a fast paced map is supposed to be) and has few neutral camps, which encourages players to gank and push.
Aside from the terrain, the map has also alot of other unique features that the HoN developers should take a look to make Darkvale even more unique from Caldavar.

Bumping again...

Asking for map feedback then give no response to it is not cool, an admin response such as "thanks for the feedback guys, we'll look into it" is already better than nothing.

[Damage]

-Add 4v4 option
-Simplify center
-New Ultra creep
-One Rune in mid
-Goblin Shops
-Close gap between lanes
-Open gap between front towers
-Close gap first and second towers
-Make path to middle between first and second towers
-Decrease price of BoT

[Anghkor]

-Add 4v4 option +1
-Simplify center +1
-New Ultra creep +1
-One Rune in mid -Could go either way on this one, I don't mind them as they are.
-Goblin Shops -IMO put Outposts where the Secret Shops currently stand, and put a lone Secret Shop up. OR leave the Secret Shops as they are, and place Outposts where that neutral camp is below the middle of bottom lane, and above the middle of top lane.
-Close gap between lanes +1
-Open gap between front towers +1
-Close gap first and second towers +1
-Make path to middle between first and second towers There already is one... but more than one would be nice.
-Decrease price of BoT lol...

I also wouldn't mind a split path starting from in between the two base towers in the forest, with a ramp leading to each base tower. Just to allow more gank opportunities near the bases.

[junglebadger]

There's fog everywhere, which is certainly interesting.

Pudge and blink heroes love this map.

First game i played on this map was a devourer on our team and a magebane on their team. both soloed. late game was hell... i played behemoth and found also that blocking was a little easier, it seemed that in a lot of places in the lane there wasn't very many openings to get out of a good block compared to a lane in Forests of C., where there is at least 3 places to run to at any point in the lane, whether towards the outside of the map (forest) or the river and neutral creep zones or secret shop.

[spell_ufb]

I'm perfectly happy with the map. I feel it's perfectly balanced, and that it offers rather dynamic gameplay 3v3. The 2 guys in same lane issue isn't a real issue, since you're supposed to send one guy to farm woods (legionare, battle beast and the like).

[RaneofSoTN]

There really needs to be a goblin shops. They could be placed on the OUTER edge by the two first towers (where there is a yellow creep). It'd be mostly fair but the spot could be debated. Its still in reach of both, gankable and all that jazz.

The map needs to not be as big. Maybe a small chip off of it would work. the idea is that its meant to be quick but as a scout with 520 move, it still takes me 15seconds to cross the map. Little bit crazy, and BoT have a slight nerf on this map because of it. Its too long to walk but too short for teleport to be as effective as normal.

[Boduar]

Playing tempest in the creep areas is hell. You and your elementals chain block each other because they have to move single/double file in a lot of areas and it causes your hero to turn in the complete wrong direction which is rather bad in a gank situation. Also have a lot of vision issues with creeps where you should be in LoS but you can not see them. Overall very dislike how creeps are done in the map.

[Kolmodajn]

People might hate me for this, but is it possible to just remove kongor and add ALOT of free space in the middle? The whole hill where he is at is taking so much space.

If this were to be done, you could have 1 specialshop and 2 runes in the middle (or vise versa), to have the two teams fighting for either the special shop or rune, therefor causing more intense gameplay (especially when the game starts)

Since its not a 5v5 map, the number of runes, bosses and shops should not be bound by the "standards"

*hope my grammar wasnt that bad*

[_swEEt]

Hey nice map

Suggestion: if pros played on this map the hellbourne would win everytime as it is way to easy for them to control runes. i always make sure i play hellbourne as i tried it 4-5 times as legion and i ahve to cross to the hellbourne side of the map athen run around a hill to get the run in either lane. this needs to be addressed as it is a serious imbalance

[Devilhate]

I see this map to heavily award strong lanes pushing fast, the towers get pushed down in no time, so you are unable to leave a lane unattended you need good defences this also makes the map hard to gank in, cause the lane with 2 people will push on hard at the time the other is gone and the one on the other lane "The one which they plan to gank will probably get a miss, and stay behind tower."
So this map just rewards playing the lane and pushing yourselves on the lane heavily Post Haste/Scrolls is a neccesity if your moving around.
I'd want this map to have stronger tower's atleast in hp / armor. maybe a 65% increase of armor/hp. and the lanes closer to each other the problem is that its to easy to just push the lanes down. it goes to fast, so maybe rax get a buff as well, cause if you lose a rax you are so in trouble you will always need someone to defend the lane eventually. then you'd need to have posthaste/scrollls. this is definatly not a noobs map you need alot of awareness of the map to win. and imo its far from a gankfest even though mid might be you just push the lanes hard and call misses noeone is able to Gank or the guy will w8 a long time probably lose the other lane and the one trying to gank will loose lvl

[bakedlays]

Push heroes seem incredibly imbalanced on this map. I've only played one game so far, but Malphas can knock down towers unless all three of you are there, with no danger to their heroes and allowing them to take the other lane.

I imagine a team containing mostly pushers/laners will end this game before anything can be done by an opposing team, also with the high starting gold those laning heros can by items to stay out forever.

[_swEEt]

I'm perfectly happy with the map. I feel it's perfectly balanced, and that it offers rather dynamic gameplay 3v3. The 2 guys in same lane issue isn't a real issue, since you're supposed to send one guy to farm woods (legionare, battle beast and the like).

you need to play the map more. its not balanced and it needs some work. I do like this map but atm it is just a fun map. Hellbourne wins 90% of the time

[Binat]

I can't say if balanced or not I even wont. But I like the kind of map. It's nice for 1on1 and 3on3 I think. Because you can switch the lanes "very fast" and the woods are nice build. I love the concepte of the ways.

Imho all heroes with massive aoe remove and it could more balanced. Queen is op on this map. She just have to stay alive and get attackspeed then gg. It isn't "nesecarry" that her mates can play. Just do some pressure work and troll the enemies and she finishes. If she is not doing this, she can push too fast.

That are first feelings of an unexperienced player ...

[Nijay]

I wish there was a path that connected the 2 secret shops.

[Tupimus]

I find Arachna, MQ and Swift being even more gay on DwV than on Watchtower/Caldavar.

[actionjax]

outpost shops to buy tps (as mentioned by other people in the post) would be nice

[Billbowa]

The middle of this map should be renamed to JUKE CENTRAL.

I also wish that it wasn't KONGOR as the boss, and someone nice and badass looking (original i mean, kongors a badass)

The map itself is very nicely done but is more fit for 4v4, please allow us to test what 4v4 on the map would play like.

Totally agree.

[KnightDavion]

its a good map but I would like to see the center forest opened up a bit more, not too much though. Its liek a hedge maze now and clicking on the minimap can cause some pathing nightmares.

Also make the mini map a bit more obvious, its hards too see what the terrain is really like from the mini map.


OTher than that its fine. I like the rune placement.

[Orcheon]

don't like it, it's too small for 3v3 and too big for 2v2

a single lane 3v3 map would actually be very interesting

[Larfleeze]

I'd play it more if it was actually balanced, and ya know not heavily favored for Legion to win.

[Digicon]

I'd play it more if it was actually balanced, and ya know not heavily favored for Legion to win.

..and how is it heavily favored for the Legion to win?

Most of the time I play DWV it's because I join someone else's game, which means I'm usually Hellbourne .. no problems with it? If anything the creep pushing a bit harder make it a bit safer for me to last-hit properly without having to worry about venturing too far and getting ganked.

[Larfleeze]

Legions autocreeps win out 20-30 minutes in game without anyone doing anything.

This may seem silly and not important, but when you're playing a 2v2 and you head double top to fight or keep all the heroes at top, the entire bottom will be pushed in very quickly.

Even an extra two waves here and there without hero support will eventually push that side down.

[Kaushal]

An option for 4v4 needs to be implemented.

Outpost shops need to be placed at the sides (it can replace the easy creeps there).

[ROSKISTAJA]

In my opinion the runes should be moved or made easier to check if they are there, because currently you have to walk all way to the rune to see if it is there when in Forests of Caldavar map you can just check it from a cliff nearby or so.

[ShatteredIce]

When chasing through the outer forests the creeps that always aggro down that path can very easily block you and let the enemy get away.

Making those creeps be at a position to not aggro when you just pass by would be great.

[Nole]

It'd be great if you could open this map for 4v4.
Hill / Fog is annoying aswell. Im headtohead with an opponent he steps inches away from me and vanishes, I turn around and attack the creepwave.

I then QQ.

[Finalwish]

Dont know if this has been posted yet but.

When I was playing on the bottom lane the Tempest meteored me and all the trees right above legion side bottom tower then Behemoth stunned me and I got pushed into the invisible trees, the trees werent there but I couldnt run into the VERY open area. I was stuck between an invisible wall and Behemoths wall.

[Draco]

Just an opinion but the maps feels too simple. It does not have a 3v3 or 2v2 feel to it. I think Kongor should be taken out, should have only 1 secret shop in replace of kongor so it adds some threat , teamwork and excitment. Maybe since there is only one shop you can then add outposts on the lanes middle outside to replace the creeps there.

[XxRagnarokxX]

Great map just make it 4v4. The middle forest i think should be download and kongor at the bottom of the crater to make pathing much easier. Cheers!

[Damage]

I haven't checked to see if this was already posted, but the runes are closer to helbourne. Also you cannot access the ramps to the runes without going all the way to the middle as Legion.

I think there should be a ramp in the front of the bases. The only ramps are at right before the first towers.

The top and bottom are too symmetrical, and Legion-Hellbourne too asymmetrical. I think there should be a defensive lane and offensive lane like in the standard map.

[MichaelBurge]

Since this map has lots of hills/trees, making distance gankers/stunners like Devourer and Valkyrie more important, why don't we increase the max camera distance on this map to balance it out?

[`Milky]

Those hills were very interesting. The hills should be kept there in my opinion, makes this map more diverse and unique.

[RTBardic]

I'd definitely like to see Outposts in the far corners -- balancing of the runes would be nice also, but it's not as big of a deal on this map because you have to go out of your way from your lane far enough to get them they're not a huge advantage over walking back to fountain.

[Saekki]

Good map fo 2v2 action weird for 3v3. The forest is kinda useless - the lanes are too fast paced and the action is always at the lanes. So much fog of war... Runes are placed kinda awkwardly.

[Elman1]

I think Kongor should be taken out, should have only 1 secret shop in replace of kongor so it adds some threat , teamwork and excitment. Maybe since there is only one shop you can then add outposts on the lanes middle outside to replace the creeps there.

This. In all the 3v3 games I've played, Kongor has never been killed. It's not just that he's strong and you get to farm less in this map, but the tiny map also makes it easy to push when you're going for Kongor (And if you're right in front of their base entrance and you go Kongor instead of pushing, you're doing it wrong).

Also, Kongor has 2 entrances, so if they warded and/or notice you're going to kill him, you'll be pretty vulnerable as you can't watch your back as easily as you can in the normal map.

This would also let them change the forest layout to something more interesting...


Since this map has lots of hills/trees, making distance gankers/stunners like Devourer and Valkyrie more important, why don't we increase the max camera distance on this map to balance it out?

Because camera distance isn't about balance, it's about copy-pasting DotA.

[TnXhaiR]

this map is well suited 2v2 3v3 but 3v3 is a hard time imo just because of the lvl differences

[texastoast]

I know some people already suggested the same things I'm about to but I think they are good ideas so ill re-post them.

Suggestions:

1) This map should also have a 4v4 option, 2 lanes might as well.

2) The towers furthest up the lane for both legion and hellborne should be moved back slightly, they are too close together now.

3) Consider adding a outpost shop or two somewhere on the map(no specific place in mind)


That being said I'm a big fan of the map great for 2v2's!

[Aritoc1]

Consider removing some of the obstacles around the map, because heroes with blink is virtually unkillable, from _every_ spot in the map they can always blink into the fog.

[Zaknafain]

I played that map a lot and I really love it. I hope you will include even more maps. The gameplay considerably changes on this map, so it keeps the game interesting.

I really like the suggestion about moving the middle towers further away from each other.

[Eeyore]

I think that the first set of towers in each lane is too close to the middle and too close to the other towers. In all of the games i've played the first set of towers will go down pretty much within about 10 minutes or so. This turns the game into a team lane-push game very quickly and does not allow for full utilization of the woods area. I hadn't even seen the runes checked or used until i explored in a practice game.
Constructively, I would change the tower setup. I would move the first set of towers back to 2/3-3/4 the distance from the rax towers or i would add a third set of towers halfway in between the other two.
I would change the woods by removing some of the sight barriers and physical barriers from the environment, but also the entry and exit points. adding another creep camp on the outside with a goblin shop would be very interesting, especially if the towers were moved back.

[BrockSamson]

I think adding a side shop is a good idea.

[Grimace]

A side shop would be cool, and I've found that bottle heroes are pretty imba.

[bittersweets]

Bottle heroes are way too overpowered on the 3v3 map. Blinkers also have a large advantage.

[Heliotic]

Put the mini boss that drops the 900 radius seeing gem from Watchtower on this map. It would be so amazing to cut down on the juking.

[Atrocitus1]

Bug:
I was neutral creep farming, and the lowest left spawn point (about 7 o'clock) had 2 sets of "Vulture Lord/Screechers." Wishing I had screen capped it atm.

Are you sure no one stacked the creeps?:P

[True_Milli]

It takes to long to walk from one lane to another imo, pretty bad for ganker heroes.
Make short ways (move lanes closer / make a straight way / portals?).

[Yurixy]

Put the mini boss that drops the 900 radius seeing gem from Watchtower on this map. It would be so amazing to cut down on the juking.
The best quote ever


Just to add info... blink heroes are OP in this map..

[TheBusDriver]

Just to add info... blink heroes are OP in this map..
Definitely! Having Magebane (already powerful as is) have so many escapes and shortcuts across the map is scary.

[Viscerious]

I really like this map, coz the small size makes it ideal for small games, especially if you have someone who can't take too much playing playing a full 5v5 on normal maps. But I also agree with the other guys, there should be another boss on this map, just to make it cooler. I like Kongor and all but he's starting to bore me... xD

[kyokunchan]

I just hate the shade, always losing people in the mid of the map, other then that i do not mind it, would like to see it be a 4v4 but w/e.

[Akroma666]

remove the runes or slow the spawn time down by a lot. Rune farming is just cheezy because the map is so small.

[kikloa]

hellou i have problen to the game download for windows. Whot is the solution?

[Fav`]

Bug:
I was neutral creep farming, and the lowest left spawn point (about 7 o'clock) had 2 sets of "Vulture Lord/Screechers." Wishing I had screen capped it atm.

Someone obviously double spawned the creeps by kiting creeps :S not a bug

[Rokman]

The comments in this thread are hilarious

[MrSnowman]

I dunno why But I cant find the ancients on the legion side of the map. Only hellbourne have them. Might just have missed them like 40 times though.

[KSteal4Lols]

I just don't like how once one team destroys one sides barracks it's basically gg.

This is why there are so many 2v2 matches who use the 3 lane map still.

Also I'm not a fan of the forests, every area has such terrible line of sight because of how the fog system works with such big map units. Those small turns on the outsides of the forests by the lanes usually result in you standing right next to an enemy hero and not even knowing it.

I'm fine with forests being amazing cover, but it's kind of insane on this map.

[Ruscour]

I love it, and I play 2v2s and 3v3s all the time.

It's a perfect 2v2 map, just what you'd expect. For a 3v3 map however, it seems too small. Maybe make 2 versions, Darkwood Vale 2v2 and Darkwood Vale 3v3, and the 3v3 map has another set of towers?

[Jklo]

I dunno why But I cant find the ancients on the legion side of the map. Only hellbourne have them. Might just have missed them like 40 times though.

Yeah they've been missing quite a few weeks now and I haven't seen them in a single of the games I've played - clearly a bug.

[Efertin]

As stated in this thread, it's really nice for 2v2, but it's a bit too small and hard to gank in for 3v3. When I played Darkwood Vale more, it was usually a game of farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm and farm some more, since this map is ridiculously hard to gank in unless you've got a team with tons of disables and the opposition has like zero map awareness or escape mechanisms. This is due to needing around 2 wards to have 99% knowledge of where the opposition currently is and how you can basically run 600 distance to a tower early on and the gankers are ****ed unless they can towerdive hard. The fog in the forest can sometimes get pretty dumb, I mean, sometimes, you can stand almost on top of an enemy hero during the day and not know it. The rune positioning is also a bit weird, although I've played at least 30 games on this map, I still have problems finding the rune spawn spot. When you get a hang of it though, the runewhoring can get pretty dumb too since it hardly takes any time to check both spots. Pushing is also a bit silly, one or two deaths and it can be a game over due to how fast pushing is in this map, we played a push strategy and won a few games below 12 minutes, as soon as we got one kill, basically.

[Dead_MAX]

This map is for 2v2...not 3v3 /end

[Ratioo]

Red neutral creeps don't spawn near the legion base where they are supposed to spawn
E: allready posted above

[SkeIeton]

The Ancient creep on the Legion side simpley do not spawn because of the secret shop is within tihe 500 radius of the camp

I don't get the ****|ng idea why this map is limited to 3v3. If there is enough room for 2 guys on a lane, why don't u make it 4v4? It is very very very very very stupid to not be able to play it 4v4. The limit should be put by users, not by developers.

[Minoxen]

Where do we have to post about the ancients not being on the Legion side for S2 to fix this?