A Short Guide to Winning PuB Games and Match Making *UPDATED 7/7/2010* [Archive]

View Full Version : A Short Guide to Winning PuB Games and Match Making *UPDATED 7/7/2010*

Coolica

12-20-2009, 01:34 PM

*****
Just mentioning that I've updated this guide as of July 7, 2010. Changes include:

-Fixing of some stuff (mainly hero choice section)
-Added Replays and hero roles section
-Fixed the 2nd half of the guide (re-typed and added it... it disappeared for some reason the first time)

*****

Coolica's Guide to Winning PuB Games and Match Making

Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Basic differences in PuB level brackets
A.1400 and Below

B. 1400-1550

C. 1550-1650

D. 1650-1700

E. 1700 and Above
III. Match Making
IV. Heroes to pick to win PuBs and Match Making
V. What not to pick and do in PuBs and Match Making
VI. Replays and tips on how to play hero roles
VII. Conclusion

I. Introduction
Welcome to my short guide to playing and winning pubs. Why did I write this guide in the first place? Well for one, most people who play this game are casual players who just do pubs with friends, or themselves. A common problem people have with playing pubs is winning; how to win pubs when teammates suck? It's a dilemma anyone who has ever played a pub faces. It could be that you are the player stuck with the random crappy players, or that you are one of said crappy players dragging the whole team down. The truth is, we've been at each end of the perspective at least once, and that's just how pubs work.

This guide assumes that the reader has a strong base knowledge of the game, as well as being average and beyond skill level. This includes being able to consistently last hit and deny, juke, etc. This guide does not provide basic information on how to play HoN or its heroes. There are hero guides and newbie guides for that. Before I get into more detail about this short guide, I'd like to start off by giving one important piece of advice: Raging in pubs does not solve anything. With that said, let's get it on!

II. Basic differences in PuB level brackets
Pub games can be separated into different level brackets based on the PSR ranking system. Of course it's not 100% accurate, because it is dependent on PSR ratings, which is not 100% accurate either. Like many generalizations, there are, and will be exceptions to the rule. However generalizations can be made based on these numbers.

A.1400 and Below
When playing in games that are 1400 and below, you can be certain that you are playing with noobs, newbs, and self-proclaimed pro's who boosted their main account with a feeder account that they are trying to salvage by playing in these games. Either way, the skill level is low. No warding, little to no organized ganking (and when they do it takes forever and isn't successful,) a lot of pushing lanes and jungle farming. Hell it's pretty much a farm fest. Also there is a lack of organized communication, like miss calls and calling for ganks. This is where you find players who auto-pick scout and never level eyes till 22-25. Auto-attacking is prominent and denying is non-existent.

B. 1400-1550
This bracket is similar to bracket A, except that you may find sometimes that ganks by two people are actually carried out, and there's actually a few people on each team (like 2) who don't farm all day. There is still a lack of wards, but players are more knowledgeable of game play, for example scouts will take eyes at either level 1 or 2. However you will see some not-so good itemizations, such as Pyromancer's and Witch Slayers' getting codex's as their first items. Again, Auto-attacking is prominent, but there is some detail to last hitting. Still, Denying is non-existent.

C. 1550-1650
This bracket is where you tend to see wards put up, but their placement is not very good. For example, they only generally ward rune spots and after the 15 minute mark they stop buying wards. Players start to slightly consider hero lineups and hero picks, although they may only synchronize two picks to initiate gank combos and possibly one counter-pick, while the rest are just carries. Skill builds and item builds in this bracket tend to be cookie-cutter and overall acceptable, such as Pyro's going for Portal Key, and late game heroes getting bracers for early game survivability. Ganks are well organized, although positioning of fights, and target priorities in fights are still sub-par. For example heroes target the Accursed who is burning blue, or Behemoths are scared to portal in and chain spell when the other team is clustered for fear of dying. Last-hitting and denying play important roles in laning.

D. 1650-1700
This bracket is when couriers start to become used more often, although usually it's just to deliver items, not checking rune spawns with the courier. Also warding becomes better, expanding from just rune spots to gank spots in the jungle. Ganks become well organized and less obvious, hero matchups are taken into account, and slight counter-warding begins to emerge. Initiators are no longer afraid to initiate, and babysitters no longer steal kills. Also the use of support heroes such as Nymphoria and Ophelia come into play more often.

E. 1700 and Above
When you reach this PSR bracket, games become team battles, couriers are used to check runes, cut down Keeper eyes with hatchets, warding becomes important to jungle ganking, and hero lineups not only consider counter-picks and team synergy, but also consider range VS melee distribution. Here you see Glacius' getting wards, maxing aura first, baby sitters giving kills to their carries and not fighting for creep kills with them, support sacrificing themselves for carries to live, heroes never auto-attacking and always trying to deny, positioning is well strategized, and the transition from laning to ganking becomes less dependent on the mid heroes.

III. Match Making
With the introduction of Match Making in 3.0, the contents of this guide can be even more exemplified with Solo Matchmaking Rating (SMR.) Match Making essentially works as a PuB game that has AP Auto-AB (meaning no locks) and 6 banned heroes; the game mode of Match Making is in fact Banning Pick (BP.) In it's current state, all players start out with 1500 SMR, meaning you may be teamed up with a complete newbie, or a knowledgeable player. Over time, SMR will even itself out, with the bad players losing more games, and the better players rising in SMR. Match making in essence, will end up like the PSR brackets; however as of now, there really is not much division within its rating system due to is new inauguration to HoN. The best way to view MM in it's current state is that ANYTHING can happen, and your best bet is to rely on yourself.

IV. Heroes to pick to win PuBs and Match Making
So now that we are clear on each distinctive bracket, which heroes should we pick to win in pubs? As a general rule, the best type of hero to pick in pubs below 1700 where you can't depend on your teammates not being total idiots are semi-carries. Semi-carries allow for flexibility in role switching, which is essential to winning pubs.

For example, in order to carry a pub team to victory, you must do well early game in laning, do well mid game by ganking and boosting overall team levels, items, lanes, and gold past the enemies, and do well late game by carrying your team in team battles. An example of this can be seen when we compare a late game hard carry hero like Dark Lady:dark:, versus a semi-carry like Valkyrie:valk:.

In order to be victorious with Dark Lady, you need your team to be able to last until you farm your Runed Axe, which means you need to depend on them to prevent ganks on you, ganks on themselves, don't let the enemy get too farmed before you come into play, and hold up lanes as to not get pushed early limiting your farm. Furthermore, you will have a hard time laning as solo mid, and will probably be forced by your teammates to choose a side lane, leaving your solo mid to be someone unreliable. Having an unreliable solo mid is not a good idea, because a poor solo mid will let their opponent control the transition from laning to ganking phase, and can totally screw up your chances of winning. If you can't get to late game with Dark Lady, you don't have a chance of winning.

As a semi-carry like Valkyrie however, you control early game by laning mid. You control their solo mid and decide when to go from laning to ganking, as well as provide some sort of protection on both top and bottom lanes because two pubs together are better than one and offer more protection (in most cases.) Since you also control ganks, you can control all 3 lanes, and decide when pushes occur. Furthermore, when late game comes around, since you controlled ganks and pushes, your team will be ahead in terms of levels, and in conjunction items and damage output, and since you soloed mid and initiated most ganks, you will be the highest level with the most kills, and thus even as a semi-carry you will be able to out carry the opposing team's hard carry due to better items and higher levels.
Semi-carries are not your only options; early game intelligence heroes are also good choices, but less effective as you go up in PSR brackets specifically because the higher you go, the more chance teams will protect their carries and let them farm. In the end, if their carry gets somewhat farmed you can't compete with them late game in terms of pure damage output, as well as their probability of having magic immunity.

With that said, here's a list of heroes that are good picks to lead your pub team to victory:

Heroes effective 1550 and below:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/77/Pyromancerhero.gif/70px-Pyromancerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/8f/Thunderbringerhero.gif/70px-Thunderbringerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/e8/Plague_Riderhero.gif/70px-Plague_Riderhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/eb/Witch_Slayerhero.gif/70px-Witch_Slayerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/56/Hellbringerhero.gif/70px-Hellbringerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/29/Voodoo_Jesterhero.gif/70px-Voodoo_Jesterhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/72/Defilerhero.gif/70px-Defilerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/0b/Scouthero.gif/70px-Scouthero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/58/Night_Houndhero.gif/70px-Night_Houndhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/96/Madmanhero.gif/70px-Madmanhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/3/35/Pharaohhero.gif/70px-Pharaohhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/e2/Pebbleshero.gif/70px-Pebbleshero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/a/a3/Deadwoodhero.gif/70px-Deadwoodhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/c/cb/Blood_Hunterhero.gif/70px-Blood_Hunterhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/78/Gauntlethero.gif/70px-Gauntlethero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/7f/Tundrahero.gif/70px-Tundrahero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/54/Bubbleshero.gif/70px-Bubbleshero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/e2/Pandamoniumhero.gif/70px-Pandamoniumhero.gif

Heroes effective in all PSR brackets:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/02/Valkyriehero.gif/70px-Valkyriehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/c/c8/Corrupteddisciplehero.gif/70px-Corrupteddisciplehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/ff/Moon_Queenhero.gif/70px-Moon_Queenhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/d2/Forsaken_Archerhero.gif/70px-Forsaken_Archerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/fa/Soulstealerhero.gif/70px-Soulstealerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/db/Arachnahero.gif/70px-Arachnahero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/82/Pestilencehero.gif/70px-Pestilencehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Wretched_Haghero.gif/70px-Wretched_Haghero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/dc/Chipperhero.gif/70px-Chipperhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/eb/Faydehero.gif/70px-Faydehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2d/Pollywog_Priesthero.gif/70px-Pollywog_Priesthero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/d4/Electricianhero.gif/70px-Electricianhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/db/Soul_Reaperhero.gif/70px-Soul_Reaperhero.gif

*I included invis heroes in the 1550 and below section because in those games reveal items are rarely bought and thus invis is a huge advantage in terms of ganking and scouting.

*Powerful gankers such as Deadwood and Pebbles can carry low level PuBs because they can gank the opposing team so much due to lack of wards; however in higher tier it will be harder to find isolated targets and there will be wards at choke-points of the map. A ganking invisible hero such as Fayde:fayd: however, has more freedom to gank.

V. What not to pick and do in PuBs and Match Making
As a general rule of thumb, these can be thrown out once you hit the 1650+ bracket, as team victories become less dependent on you as an individual carrying your team to victory. However in 1650 brackets and below, avoid doing any of the following:

-Picking support/tank/initiation heroes. You won't get any backup from your teammates and they won't be smart enough to let you heal them at proper times/run away when you tank/go in when you initiate. Support heroes generally have low survivability and no carry potential as well, and you will be targeted by the opposing team, preventing you from contributing to your team overall.
These include:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/0f/Krakenhero.gif/70px-Krakenhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/a/a1/Keeper_of_the_Foresthero.gif/70px-Keeper_of_the_Foresthero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/75/Opheliahero.gif/70px-Opheliahero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/9a/Jeraziahhero.gif/70px-Jeraziahhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4f/Glaciushero.gif/70px-Glaciushero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/e5/Tempesthero.gif/70px-Tempesthero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2a/Behemothhero.gif/70px-Behemothhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4b/Armadonhero.gif/70px-Armadonhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4b/Andromedahero.gif/70px-Andromedahero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/25/Legionnairehero.gif/70px-Legionnairehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2f/Accursedhero.gif/70px-Accursedhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/1/1b/Succubushero.gif/70px-Succubushero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/9a/Devourerhero.gif/70px-Devourerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/81/Magmushero.gif/70px-Magmushero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/67/Nymphorahero.gif/70px-Nymphorahero.gif

-Picking Hard Carries. Yes you are a powerhouse who can almost 1v5 the whole opposing team, IF you can get to endgame. The problem picking hard carries is the opposite problem of picking supports; you need your team to be able to back your farming up/survive long enough for endgame/support you endgame by initiating/disabling/healing. Therefore the problem lies in reaching that end game point. Hard carries have very weak early game and their mid game is not as strong as other heroes because hard carries are item-dependent heroes. If your team cannot support you until you get your items, you lose the game before you even have a chance to make an impact. Hard carry heroes include:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2e/Chronoshero.gif/70px-Chronoshero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/bd/Magebanehero.gif/70px-Magebanehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/93/Sand_Wraithhero.gif/70px-Sand_Wraithhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/93/Dark_Ladyhero.gif/70px-Dark_Ladyhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/41/Wildsoulhero.gif/70px-Wildsoulhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/3/3a/Zephyrhero.gif/70px-Zephyrhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/46/War_Beasthero.gif/70px-War_Beasthero.gif

-1v3 or more. Sure you might be out leveling the enemy and have better items, but generally you won't win if you try to gank more than 1v3. 1v2's are permissible, but make sure you live. It's better to not die at all than to die going for a kill. Remember, if you die, you whole team suffers because you are the central pivot the team is leaning on.

-Defending against pushes yourself or pushing by yourself. Often when the other team pushes or you are pushing a lane, some or all of your team members will not bother to come defend, either because they think farming is more important, or they don't have a :HomecomingStone: . At these times, unless you can destroy a whole lane by your solo push (including raxes) or they are pushing into your base to your team's raxes, let them have the tower and force your teammates to come back to defend if they continue pushing, or wait for them to push with you if you are pushing.

Do try to:
-Try to take control of the game. Voice your opinion to the team and lead them to ganks, pushes, etc. Most of all, try to call solo mid (if you are confident in your skills) because the progression of mid lane controls the flow of the game from laning phase to ganking phase.

-Ward the map yourself. With int gank heroes and semi-carries, you will make enough money from farming/kills to afford wards. Pubs rarely buy wards or reveal items, so make sure you do it. If you ward their jungle for gank opportunities, lead your team when you see an opening for a gank and they will follow if they see the ward there and have vision of the area.

-Call misses for your team. At the very least call missing in your own lane, but if you can, call missing for other lanes as well. Pubs will get ganked easily because they don't pay attention to the mini-map, and they don't call misses either because they don't notice or it's too late. This can save your mid game if you prevent ganks by calling misses for your teammates.

-Control their solo with ganks, denies, and rune whoring. This isn't only limited to your lane, even if you are not soloing middle lane. Once you go into ganking phase you are essentially controlling all the other lanes as well by helping/pushing other lanes. A good mid will out-level their mid lane opponent and initiate the ganking phase for other lanes; a good side lane player will help mid lane by initiating a gank on the opposing mid lane hero to prevent his transition into ganking phase.

-Be flexible with your role. This is why you pick semi-carries or early game heroes. If you see that your team is utter crap, look for gank opportunities and use those to push. If you have a teammate who picked a carry and was jungling all game, turn into a support hero by getting disables or by beefing up your tank potential.

Continued on second post.

Coolica

12-20-2009, 01:34 PM

VI. Replays and tips on how to play hero roles

So now that you're armed with the knowledge of what works, what doesn't work, as well as the level of opponents you are facing in PuB games, what do you do now? You start winning of course! "But I don't know how to use those heroes!" Well in this section, I will cover the basics of a hero in each category, and provide replays. However if you want more in-dept strategies for an individual hero, I suggest checking out the Premium guides section.

Let's start by talking about the three primary hero roles necessary to win PuB games and Match Making in HoN:

The Ganker
The ganker is a hero that excels in killing other heroes swiftly and quickly; they usually have high burst damage due to their skills and therefore need levels quickly to be able to stay ahead of opponents. They often don't need much items to dish out a lot of damage, but the downside of this is that their skills don't "scale." This means that their spells expend a set amount of damage per level, unlike hard carries who have skills such as "Critical Strike Chance" which would increase in damage as they acquire more damage from items.

The ganker has 2 main purposes in the game. One is to roam the map once they have accuired their ultimate and hunt isolated enemies farming the jungles, or set up a gank in another lane that is getting pressured or has an opponent hard carry getting uninterrupted farm. Their other duty is to quickly dispatch an important target during team fights, such as the enemy Tempest:temp: who can absolutely wreck your team if allowed to place a proper ultimate. The ganker has very strong early game due to the nature of how the game flows, which is heroes have not accuired much items or levels to boost their survivability or auto-attack damage. However as the game goes longer, and as players accuire stronger items, the ganker looses his edge against their opponents. An example of this is how Deadwood:dead: can almost always kill any opponent once he hits level 6 with his Root and Ultimate; however as the game goes on, he can no longer take out heroes with his combo due to them having higher survivability through items and levels.

The ganker usually turns into a support role as the game progresses, supporting the team's hard carry with disables, wards, or whatever is needed to win the game. Therefore if you plan to carry a game as a ganker role, you must make sure to hinder the opposing team's hard carry as much as possible, giving your own hard carry the chance to acquire better items and higher levels than the opposing hard carry.

Powerful heroes in this category include:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/77/Pyromancerhero.gif/70px-Pyromancerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/8f/Thunderbringerhero.gif/70px-Thunderbringerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/eb/Witch_Slayerhero.gif/70px-Witch_Slayerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/3/35/Pharaohhero.gif/70px-Pharaohhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/e2/Pebbleshero.gif/70px-Pebbleshero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/a/a3/Deadwoodhero.gif/70px-Deadwoodhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/c/cb/Blood_Hunterhero.gif/70px-Blood_Hunterhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/78/Gauntlethero.gif/70px-Gauntlethero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/7f/Tundrahero.gif/70px-Tundrahero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/54/Bubbleshero.gif/70px-Bubbleshero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/d4/Electricianhero.gif/70px-Electricianhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/eb/Faydehero.gif/70px-Faydehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/dc/Chipperhero.gif/70px-Chipperhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/82/Pestilencehero.gif/70px-Pestilencehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/e/e2/Pandamoniumhero.gif/70px-Pandamoniumhero.gif

The Pusher
The Pusher is a special role in that his main goal isn't to kill the enemy carries as much as possible, or farm in a lane for a long time. The goal of a pusher is to take down towers fast, and destroy the opposing team's unit-producing structures as quickly as possible. The purpose of this strategy is to end the game with mega creeps before the enemy carry/team can stop your creeps from pushing their base. If this strategy is played correctly, it is the fastest and most consistent way of winning PuB games.

This isn't to say that pushers don't have strong ganking and team fight capabilities either. Pusher heroes usually have very strong spells that can turn the tide of ganks and team fights. A good example of a pusher is Pollyworg Priest:poll:. His electric jolt is very good for clearing waves of creeps fast, and his ultimate excels at taking down structures quickly. During ganks, not only do these 2 spells put out a lot of damage, but he also has 2 disables that immobilzes your enemies to interrupt them/prevent them from running.

As the game goes on, the pusher's effectiveness also goes down, similar to gankers. The enemy carries get strong enough to stop your pushing abilities, and thus you also fall into the support category late game, being more of a hybrid between supporting through team fortification/disables and dealing damage.

Strong heroes that fulfill this role include:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2d/Pollywog_Priesthero.gif/70px-Pollywog_Priesthero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/5/56/Hellbringerhero.gif/70px-Hellbringerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/72/Defilerhero.gif/70px-Defilerhero.gif

The Semi-carry
Out of the 3 main roles important to winnnig PuB games, the semi-carry is the most famous one simply for one reason; he mimics the potency of hard carries mid to late game, and he has strong presence all throughout the game. The strengths of a semi-carry include ganking, farming, and carrying. However with this mix of abilities what negatives does a semi-carry have. The main problem with semi-carries is that since they are the jack-of-all trades, they do not excel in any category in a way that outplays heroes that are specified to a specific role. However, this isn't to say that semi-carries can't be effective at doing those jobs; it just takes more skill to pull off.

The semi-carry is a very potent game changing role; this also makes it the hardest role to fulfill properly. A semi-carry has the abilities to do everything and therefore must try to do everything. An example of this is Soulstealer:souls:. Soulstealer becomes very strong at ganking once he hits level 7, maxing his Demon Hands skill. It effectively does 900 magic damage in the span of 1.5 seconds in an AoE; that means pretty much death to anyone under level 8 in most cases. He can also use these skills to farm a lot of money quickly, as 2 hits kill an entire creep wave until the 35 minute mark. Combine this with his second skill, which adds damage the more creeps he kills, and he becomes a very strong hero early-mid game. This makes Soulstealer's job once he hits level 7 to farm up great items, and take any opportunity to successully gank.

Once Soulstealer hits level 11, his ultimate becomes very powerful in team fights, and can even Genocide entire teams if placed properly, all the way until late game. With all this combined, how can a good SS player fail. Well the thing is, he is (like most semi-carries) squishy as sponge, and will literally die to hard hitting bust damage combos. Also, even though SS has powerful spells and a powerful physical attack, he has no scaling abilities other than his third skill, which is not as potent as other hard-carry spells such as bash or crit chance, or base damage increase. Therefore he will not be able to stand up to hard carries 1v1 late game.

A semi-carry's strength lies in their strong spells, and their ability to farm quickly for high tier items. Their job is to be the hard carry for the first half of the game and allow their real hard carry to farm, while keeping down the other team's farm. If a semi-carry fails, he pretty much becomes useless. As end game nears, most semi-carries become secondary damage dealers next to their hard carries, sometimes taking on items that help disable the opposing team's carry. They fulfill any role he team needs.

A good list of semi-carries include:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/ff/Moon_Queenhero.gif/70px-Moon_Queenhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/02/Valkyriehero.gif/70px-Valkyriehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/db/Arachnahero.gif/70px-Arachnahero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/d2/Forsaken_Archerhero.gif/70px-Forsaken_Archerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/fa/Soulstealerhero.gif/70px-Soulstealerhero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/c/c8/Corrupteddisciplehero.gif/70px-Corrupteddisciplehero.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Wretched_Haghero.gif/70px-Wretched_Haghero.gif

Now that we've gone the pertinent roles in winning PuB games and Match Making games, you may be left wondering, "Ok I know the hero roles, and I know what to basically do, but how do I actually do it?" Well for your convenience, I have chosen some of my own replays which I feel exemplify how each role should be played.

*People may not agree with skill builds and/or item choices in the replays. Many heroes have a wide range of skill builds and item choices available to them. The purpose of the replays is to provide a general understanding of how to play each of the 3 roles effectively.

*All matches are 5v5 matches without any player disconnecting. However on the WIP Match Replay page, some games might seem like a player is missing. This is due to those damn dual log-in accounts that are too cheap to pay for 2 separate accounts. (I always report them after owning them though ;))

The Ganker replays:
Deadwood #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=5911471)
Electrician #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=6095514)
Electrician #2 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=6090046)
Witch Slayer #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=1123458)
The Chipper #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=1259029)
Bubbles #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=1930999)
Pandamonium #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=2645553)

The Pusher replays:
Pollyworg Priest #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=9069012)

The Semi-carry replays:
Soulstealer #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=6444100)
Soulstealer #2 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=6277303)
Valkyrie #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=3670182)
Moon Queen #1 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=4375642)
Moon Queen #2 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=4374434)

VII. Conclusion
Well there you have it folks! With this guide I hope you all can win more PuB games and Match Making games by making good choices and picking the correct heroes. However this guide is not the end-all-be-all of HoN, and as such take the advice given here as something to build on. Everyone has their own unique way of playing HoN, and this is just a basic guideline for those who don't know where to start.

If anyone has any suggestions or problems with the guide, please feel free to leave a comment. If you like the guide and think it's helpful, link it to other whom you may think it can help. Also, if anyone has replays that they think exemplifies what this guide has laid out, feel free to send it to me and I'll review it. If it conforms with the guide I'll add it! As always, thanks to S2 for making a great game, and I hope everyone can enjoy playing it!

Mutin

12-20-2009, 02:13 PM

Brilliant :O

BarneyGumbal

12-20-2009, 07:59 PM

From my experience <1650, your guide is awesome.

You should probably add Chronos as being effective below 1550. You can almost guarantee no one will spread out.

ElementUser

12-20-2009, 08:02 PM

I approve of this guide :D

It's the only "Winning Pub Games" guide that has some useful tips and analysis IMO

Coolica

12-21-2009, 12:50 AM

You should probably add Chronos as being effective below 1550. You can almost guarantee no one will spread out.

Yeah Chronos seems like a good idea on paper, but in practice it will end up being like my Dark Lady example, where you will have to rely on your team mates early game and thus have a higher risk to lose if they cannot control your opponents before late game rolls around.

Tajak

12-21-2009, 08:51 AM

great guide... thanks so much OP! I've lost so many games pubs because I chose a support char.

KEENGAMER

12-21-2009, 08:57 AM

great guide... thanks so much OP! I've lost so many games pubs because I chose a support char.

Are you sure it's not because you pick a support, then spend the whole game farming in the jungle?

Thysios

12-21-2009, 09:01 AM

Should also mention don'y play EM. Unless you did and i missed it :)

great guide.

Coolica

12-21-2009, 01:19 PM

Should also mention don'y play EM. Unless you did and i missed it :)

great guide.

I didn't mention it because I didn't want to get into the debate of EM vs Non-EM games. However I did base this guide on non-em, so I might add an EM section. Thanks for the heads up and the comments :D

Erevos

12-21-2009, 02:11 PM

Thanks for the guide m8 really helpful for guys like me who came to this game with only a little or non at all expierince from Dota and killed their PSR in the process of learning it.

akitoes

12-21-2009, 03:16 PM

I'm really happy for you imma let you finish but :temp::behe::keep::jera::accu::deme: are gamebreaking even in pubs

Especially initiators, most of the time you're forced to initiate with a hero that isn't supposed to because teammates are pussies, so better pick a real initator

otherwise

I approve of this guide :D

It's the only "Winning Pub Games" guide that has some useful tips and analysis IMO
QFT

devin

12-21-2009, 04:29 PM

I agree with akitoes. Playing at 1550+ atm, and my expirience there is that there is two types of people you will be teamed up with. The first will be the silent type, he dosen't say anything in chat during the picks and will rarely announce his pick to the team. The second type is the one who is up for a little chat, and wants to set up a team for you to win.

The first one will destroy your game, because he at most times is a poor player who picks what he feels like and isnt thinking about teammates or the other teams picks. And the second one is the one who is willing to play almost anything to make his team winning.

A lot of times i've discussed the lineups with my mates on the chat, and the people that really want to win will pick a tempest/behe-combo just to crush the other team, so we win.

And, a last thing. If we have a bunch of people reading this guide to go play a game afterwards we will have a lineup with a bunch of semi-carries. If they are up to meet a team who picks a tank, some stunners and a carry, and also has in mind that the carry has to get farmed in the laning stages, you WILL be screwed.

AnzeKopitar

12-21-2009, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the guide m8 really helpful for guys like me who came to this game with only a little or non at all expierince from Dota and killed their PSR in the process of learning it.

What he said. :(

rayanman

12-21-2009, 08:06 PM

pollywog can carry pubnubs when played correctly.

12-21-2009, 08:16 PM

From my experience <1650, your guide is awesome.

You should probably add Chronos as being effective below 1550. You can almost guarantee no one will spread out.

You can also guarrantee your idiot team running into your ult.

ShammySham

12-21-2009, 10:11 PM

Now I can play, and win pubs games like a professional!

akitoes

12-22-2009, 04:19 AM

pollywog can carry pubnubs when played correctly.
http://www.eyje.com/images/emimages/jun2008/not-really-owl.jpg

yav_at

12-22-2009, 06:01 AM

Comic font makes my eyes bleed, otherwise good job writing that guide!

Coolica

12-22-2009, 07:46 AM

If enough people want me to, I'm willing to play a dummy account starting from around 1300ish PSR and raise it to around 1500ish following this guide and posting the results (hence having reserved the 2nd post in case I do this.)

What do you guys think? I don't want to raise it past 1500some because when it gets to around 1600's it starts to be time consuming (ex: teams don't concede, harder opponents, etc.) and I still want to play my main account. I only want to spend about a day or two doing this with as few games as possible so yeah...

Afasia

12-22-2009, 08:31 AM

but I always have the tendency to go tempest in harsh pub enviroment :o it works!

akitoes

12-22-2009, 04:07 PM

Coolica

12-23-2009, 12:46 AM

If you can extend to 1700 would be awesome
Most players like me can manage 1600 without any problems but 1700 is a lil bit harder

If I do extend it to 1700 I'll probably take longer (as in, a few weeks) because I can only play about 4 games a day and when you get past 1550, points start to come slower (ie: 3-8 points per game.)

IIIustrious

12-23-2009, 01:01 AM

akitoes

12-23-2009, 03:01 AM

I disagree with a lot of this, I do all the **** that 1700 or above does according to you, yet I still have shitty PSR. I have been told I play 1600+ level but my PSR and some other stats are WRECKED because of awful pubs. What should be done to get out of the cycle and get a chance to get into a good clan? No "good" clan will take someone with shitty psr and the likes.
Look at your stats, they're uh, not stellar to say the least
You're average / below average

Practice lasthitting, don't die instantly in teamfights (if you actually participate in them)

PSR should raise

IIIustrious

12-23-2009, 11:34 AM

Coolica

12-23-2009, 02:16 PM

My old account has a lot better stats, this one got trashed because my clan I just left had AWFUL players who always wanted to play with me [easy mode noobs] so they wrecked my stats, I always lost because of them and all that, normally my average CK is 100 and my CD is 10.

Also, I don't die instantly in teamfights, I play carry a good amount and usually do really well in my scores for that, I participate in almost every fight I'm not a douche bag.

Not bashing or anything, but if you play with awful people who are your friends, then PSR can't reflect your actual skill, because that would make it "Playing with friends Skill Rating."

Also, if you play carry most of the time, 100CK per game means you don't farm enough.

akitoes

12-23-2009, 02:26 PM

If I do extend it to 1700 I'll probably take longer (as in, a few weeks) because I can only play about 4 games a day and when you get past 1550, points start to come slower (ie: 3-8 points per game.)
You could strap the dropping down to 1350 psr and just work your way up to 1500 psr, may be a good idea if you're considering 1700 psr
I noticed you also play Puppet Master a lot, any reason for him not being in the list ?

Coolica

12-23-2009, 03:41 PM

You could strap the dropping down to 1350 psr and just work your way up to 1500 psr, may be a good idea if you're considering 1700 psr
I noticed you also play Puppet Master a lot, any reason for him not being in the list ?

Well I do have a dummy account that I used for testing purposes to see how accurately (as much as I could) I could label PSR brackets. The account went as low as 1375, but it's much harder to go below that without using other accounts to get it low, also aside from purposefully feeding in games. I even went strait doombringers as much as I could build on Scout for a couple games and still won -.-. That account's at around 1425? I might post the account later as an experimental account for people to see.

Although I play Puppet Master a lot (because I like the hero) I didn't list him in the guide because he lacks in the early game department compared to other semi-carries like Valk and SS. He can kill with his ult early on, but it's much harder compared to heroes such as SS who has loads of burst dmg, or Valk who has a stun/nuke/chase combo. PM can't really solo kill anyone without being somewhat farmed, unlike SS/Valk/MQ early-mid game due to the lack of burst and spammable dmg skill, whereas a SS/MQ with just Portal Key or Shroud can easily rape any hero with their ults/Hands/Beams until late game and help them farm gold as well. PM relies on his Whiplash and Ult to kill, and Whiplash won't be as powerful until mid-late game because it's a scaling ability, and needs items to be powerful. I only get kills early game as PM either with help or if my opponent is stupid.

Which also brings up another point: The hero lists I posted are not the end-all be-all heroes you have to use in pubs to win. Sure you could win a game with carry Behemoth if you wanted, raping everyone with your stun combos while your dumb teammates are too scared to follow up your initiation. However wouldn't it be easier to just do that with Valk or MQ? The guide merely explains the easiet way to win consistenly (because the focus of the guide is that you pick heroes that are the least dependent on teammates but still have effectiveness all game), but it doesn't say that you can't win if you use heroes outside the ones I listed; it will just mean you'll have to rely on your luck to win more (hoping for non-retarded teammates.)

akitoes

12-24-2009, 11:27 AM

noRaki

12-24-2009, 11:55 AM

nice guide

`jusatin`

12-25-2009, 06:32 AM

Nice guide mate, and I gotta say I agree with almost everything in this, though you underastimate the 1600-1700 abit :)

I just wanted to say that I would like to see you rasing the PSR from 1350 to 1500, since I never can stay there :p I can play 1600 (and +) games with my friends and dont suck that much, but I always have shitty team when playing 1500, so it would be nice :)

And happy holidays every1 ;)

spkoc

12-25-2009, 08:04 AM

I definitely think you can be (un)pleasantly surprised by the skills of players in any bracket. I've played 1300-1600+ and I've seen great warding in very low level games, no reveal of any sort in 1550+ games and so on.

I think your biggest problem is underestimating hard carries. It is EXTREMELY easy to free farm for 30 minutes in 1600 and below games, and you have a very good chance of facing a team with no properly built carry(yes, they'll have 2-3 carries, but it'll be the retarded scout/magebane/nighthound with 50cks at minute 60).

Your point is true, you don't want to rely on your team to handle the early game. But you ignore that their team is just as dumb, won't push towers almost at all and will allow the game to drag on a whole bunch. A well played hard carry(Chronos, Magebane, Dark Lady, Madman) pretty much guarantees a win after 30-40 minutes as long as they don't have one either.

In great part BECAUSE of this feeling by decent players that they should go support/semi-carry/middable hero, pubs almost always have atrocious carries. But really, a good support/mid game hero leaves victory a lot more dependent on your team than just playing an end game hero and rushing your build as much as possible.

Coolica

12-25-2009, 08:45 AM

Hey Coolica got some (hopefully) interesting questions

Do you think psr farming is easier in BD or in AP/SD ?
Also when you play ap do your teammates communicate/listen for picks ?
How do you convince them if they want to play solo mid ? Do you just tell them to look at your stats ?

PSR farming from my experience is easiest in AP games, because in BD/SD games you are not guaranteed to get semi-carries/heroes that have a dominating presence all game. That and most people who know what they are doing play BD, which is a disadvantage to you. However this guide isn't meant to raise PSR, its primary purpose is to increase win rate %, with the raise in PSR being an added bonus.

As for asking for middle lane, usually I try to pick a semi-carry after the opponents have chosen 2 sqishies that I can wtfpwn instantly with the semi-carry, and then proceed to call mid in chat nicely. However in the event that someone on my team instapicks and calls solo mid, unless it's a hero that totally sucks at mid, I will not argue and go to the side lanes instead. I never ask them to check my stats, because IMO if you have to tell them to check your stats in the first place they are probably stubborn idiots who won't listen to you anyhow. Note that I lose more games when I go to a side lane than when I take solo mid, because mid control a lot of the action. Usually people don't have a problem with me calling mid though.

I definitely think you can be (un)pleasantly surprised by the skills of players in any bracket. I've played 1300-1600+ and I've seen great warding in very low level games, no reveal of any sort in 1550+ games and so on.

I think your biggest problem is underestimating hard carries. It is EXTREMELY easy to free farm for 30 minutes in 1600 and below games, and you have a very good chance of facing a team with no properly built carry(yes, they'll have 2-3 carries, but it'll be the retarded scout/magebane/nighthound with 50cks at minute 60).

Your point is true, you don't want to rely on your team to handle the early game. But you ignore that their team is just as dumb, won't push towers almost at all and will allow the game to drag on a whole bunch. A well played hard carry(Chronos, Magebane, Dark Lady, Madman) pretty much guarantees a win after 30-40 minutes as long as they don't have one either.

In great part BECAUSE of this feeling by decent players that they should go support/semi-carry/mid-able hero, pubs almost always have atrocious carries. But really, a good support/mid game hero leaves victory a lot more dependent on your team than just playing an end game hero and rushing your build as much as possible.

As I said, the guide only gives a good prediction of the skill levels in correlation with PSR, but isn't 100% accurate. Sure you will find good warders/players below 1400, but it doesn't happen often. You will also find dumb-asses in higher level brackets (more often than finding good players in lower brackets.)

Also, I only suggested to stay away from hard carries, not that you can't use them. In fact, in the section where I listed heroes who I do not suggest to use, none of them are hard carries; they are all support/tanks. This is because hard carries CAN win the game when it gets to late game, but the path to late game is unreliable because of you relying on your teammates. That's not to say hard carries are ineffective all game; if you are sure your team won't lose before you get farmed, by all means go for it.

However if you think about his oppositely, it wouldn't work out well. Suppose someone who's decent reads my guide, and picks a semi-carry, and you on the opposite team pick a hard carry. Assuming your teams are about equal skill, the other player would shut down his lane at mid, limiting your solo mid's gank potential/exp, roam the map ganking side lanes forcing you to either help out or continue farming as your team suffers, and eventually creating such a gap between your team and theirs that by the time you get to late game (if your team has not conceded yet) you alone won't be able to solo 3 of them. And of course there will always be (at least a high percentage of games) a player who picks an auto-attack carry like Scout of NH that can win with minimal skill and just items.

Now if you picked a semi-carry as well, you could prevent all this by shutting him down or at least equaling him at mid and roaming ganks, and help your team survive better until late game when the noob who picked Sand Wraith on your team has enough items to auto-attack to win the game. The point of picking a semi-carry over a hard carry isn't that they carry better than hard carries, but can influence the game much earlier, overall contributing more to your team's victory. Very few games (unless EM) last so long that a team's hard carry will get enough items to 1v5 the opposing team, and this is also assuming that the other team does not have a hard carry themselves. And if they do get to that point in a non-em game, the game was over a long time ago. Most games are decided by early-mid game plays, unless it's very very evenly matched (referring to non-em.)

Also, you could assume that the opposing team is stupid and not push towers, etc. However if you can assume that, what's to say that your team ISN'T retarded as well? In reality most teams' pub players are about at the same relative skill level (unless locks occur, which doesn't really matter until the 1550+ brackets because it's better to face a bunch of nub friends, right?) This guide presumes you are an average or better-than-average players seeking to win more, and thus picking heroes that influence the game most is the effective way to win. Besides, if you can win a game as a farmed hard carry because of the opposing team's stupidity, couldn't you win easier with a semi-carry by ganking the **** out of them early game? And if they really are that stupid, and your team is not, you guys could have won the game without getting to late game anyway. Point is, hard carries only come into play when both teams do not gank/prevent farming, which is a semi-carries job anyway. In the end if you do get farmed, then that means either your team can win without you because they did their job and killed them/shut them down early game that they have no farm at all, or that everyone picked hard carries and farmed all game, which if that's the case, hard carries vs hard carries is just stupid, and you might as well picked a ganker/semi-carry and won the game yourself while racking up lots of kills because no one can stop your early game.

Phrosen

12-25-2009, 05:46 PM

"Initiators are no longer afraid to initiate, and babysitters no longer steal kills."
-This is not HoN Public games 1650-1700

I've seen players with 1700-1800 fail at this A LOT. (Usually they have +30% EM games, of course.)

Disease1

12-25-2009, 07:54 PM

i think madman is effective past 1650

12-26-2009, 06:21 AM

best guide out

wombat90

12-26-2009, 06:44 AM

i like this guide very much, but i wondered: wouldnt slither also be one of the semi-carries to pick?

Mizaru1

12-26-2009, 12:39 PM

i like this guide very much, but i wondered: wouldnt slither also be one of the semi-carries to pick?

Slither is countered very very easily....by one of the heroes he reccommended to use. That is Arachna.

Why? One 50 mana harden carapace and ur spray + ulti is debuffed. Stick a spider on u and ur most prob dead....

Zato

12-26-2009, 06:13 PM

Its all about luck, there are no tips to win if you have a feeder/s in your team or people that doesn?t know to play their hero. The only thing that matters in a pub even if you play it perfectly is having luck with your partners or hoping other team has more retards than you. I usually play with 3-4 friends and even 1 random player can change the outcome of a match.

Half of the time, you can easily loose at the hero select screen because of people picking 4 carrys or things like that.

Maybe im unlucky but having played between 1500-1680 and I think I?ve seen like 2-3 matches with guards or courier from other people besides me or my friends.

I?ve played few BD but I recommend it, players tend to be better there and more careful with their picks.

PD: Invisibility is still not countered in like 90% of games at 1600+

Xarix50

12-27-2009, 09:21 AM

What heroes are very good to 3v3 fights on Darkwood Vale ?

Darkshine1

12-27-2009, 11:54 AM

You definitely need to place Puppet under characters great at all PSR levels. I'd be willing to say that he's the best pubstomper in the game, with the possible exception of Corrupted Disciple.

Alucard187

12-27-2009, 05:17 PM

Agree with anything you said just an awesome guide!

akitoes

12-27-2009, 07:17 PM

So what are you gonna do as an experiment Coolica ?

Its all about luck, there are no tips to win if you have a feeder/s in your team or people that doesn?t know to play their hero. The only thing that matters in a pub
You must be a competitive player !
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/player_stats.php?aid=849565
Hint : luck isn't the only reason you're losing
Good players carry their games, therefore they get good psr

Coolica

12-28-2009, 01:18 AM

So what are you gonna do as an experiment Coolica ?

I've been busy with life, so haven't had much time to play (and when I do play I'm so distracted that I can't play properly :(), although I did start the experimental account and got it lowered to 1360 right now. I hope I can start it after New Years.

Debbye

12-28-2009, 01:39 AM

The key point is not to attract the attention of the enemy, i.e. not to get focused and use your teammates as tanks.This way you will be able to get a decent kdr. This is kind of tricky, since you certainly will get noticed when you get to 'onslaught' or 'savage sick'. But this is what pub games are about. Not teamplay or your micro or smth, your success depends on your ability to conceal your threat-level.

Zato

12-28-2009, 02:41 AM

So what are you gonna do as an experiment Coolica ?

You must be a competitive player !
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/player_stats.php?aid=849565
Hint : luck isn't the only reason you're losing
Good players carry their games, therefore they get good psr

I didnt say I was competitive player by any means, im quite a noob. But at least i know the basics of the game and usually I try not to feed or jump into 3-4 enemies being alone like a lot of people do. Usually I loose because I play it bad or other team is better, but there also times I loose by others fault or leaves, etc...

I don?t think that you can carry an entire team being 4vs5 or worst and then if you do it?s because you are much much more better player or they are retarded.

I dont think you can write a guide of "how to win" something that involves so much factors the most important being the luck you got with partners specially at low psr.

Dont get me wrong, this guide has useful tips and stuff, its always nice to see other players trying to help noobs like me, but its just I find that pubing has too many factors involved and you can?t follow a guide for something like this.

icantrixx

12-28-2009, 10:56 AM

Great guide! However, you should probably add the psychological aspect of the game, since it IMO is more important.

If you find someone who flames a lot or just plain suck at the game, most likely they'll stop finding the game very interesting if you kill them 3x in a row and leave.

Not only are they easier to kill, which feeds you, but making someone leave disrupts their whole team, since they have to play 4v5 from now on.

Another bonus to this is, that the idiot whose life you plan on screwing with probably picked a carry, and some other idiots might have thought "ok, i pick nice support", which is now also useless.

Also, since the picks u advise are VERY similar to one another, it would be nice if you offered a quick item-walk-through. When I want to win, I usually pick valk, which goes fairly well (guess i have somewhere around 3.0/1.0 k/d with her normally), and I usually go bottle first then rush post haste, which basically always work... However, I dont really have any huge preferences on the items to follow. What would you get? Disable, survival or damage?

Jake

12-28-2009, 12:48 PM

The problem is that PSR is not enough accurate. In the long run 1700+ people are like you said but you can play 10 games in a row where there are at least 1-2 who got their PSR from the Santa. Also if you don't have these idiots there can be leavers. I have a record of four 1700+ games in a row where some1 leaves before concede. Short guide to win 1700+ games: play with some1 you trust to be good enough and avoid pubstompers. While 1700+ games might sound "randoms ain't noobs/game ruiners anymore" it's not true. And playing versus 5 friends procents are against you, if you don't know everyone in your team. It's not the communication or "I have used to play with my friends". Pubstomps win because they will avoid retards, noobs, leavers and flamers. Banlist is also a good tool to get the prosents for your side.

You didn't speak out which mode should be played. With 5 friends and AP and using same heroes; the aoe combo for examble will give this side the clear advantage. So if you are alone, play Ban Draft. SD is not good if people can't communicate about their hero choices and AR is just about luck (personally I like to play it because you can't choose the hero you are good at, and playing same "must pick" heroes over and over is boring.)

Coolica

12-29-2009, 02:49 AM

What heroes are very good to 3v3 fights on Darkwood Vale ?

Anything with 2 disables that can gank, and a hard carry. (For example, Pesti, Witch Slayer, and Chronos. Feed Chronos all the kills and gg.)

You definitely need to place Puppet under characters great at all PSR levels. I'd be willing to say that he's the best pubstomper in the game, with the possible exception of Corrupted Disciple.

Akitoes asked me as well why I didn't put puppet in the list, in case u missed it. Basically he lacks strong early game burst dmg besides his whiplash, and the semi-carries listed have stronger burst dmg/early game compared to Puppet.

Great guide! However, you should probably add the psychological aspect of the game, since it IMO is more important.

If you find someone who flames a lot or just plain suck at the game, most likely they'll stop finding the game very interesting if you kill them 3x in a row and leave.

Not only are they easier to kill, which feeds you, but making someone leave disrupts their whole team, since they have to play 4v5 from now on.

Another bonus to this is, that the idiot whose life you plan on screwing with probably picked a carry, and some other idiots might have thought "ok, i pick nice support", which is now also useless.

Also, since the picks u advise are VERY similar to one another, it would be nice if you offered a quick item-walk-through. When I want to win, I usually pick valk, which goes fairly well (guess i have somewhere around 3.0/1.0 k/d with her normally), and I usually go bottle first then rush post haste, which basically always work... However, I dont really have any huge preferences on the items to follow. What would you get? Disable, survival or damage?

Yes you are correct about the Psychological aspect, and I might include it in the guide later on. If you'd like you can write it for me, I'm quite busy these days :P.

As for the picks, they are simiar because they all fall under the same category of semi-carries or early/mid game gankers. Therefore the itembuilds for them will have some similarites but will also depend on the situation. For example the majority of the time I build Soul Stealer with Frostwolf (pre Frostburn), but one time we had a scared initiator who would no go in, and a tank who was scared to go in at all, and I had to end up getting a Void Talisman and BKB to initiate and tank with. Who the hell gets Void Talisman on Soul Stealer? lol. I can't remember if I won that game, but my point is that item builds on semi-carries are flexible. I might add a general guide for it though, like you suggested, but it would be very very general. I don't like telling people how to play.

The problem is that PSR is not enough accurate. In the long run 1700+ people are like you said but you can play 10 games in a row where there are at least 1-2 who got their PSR from the Santa. Also if you don't have these idiots there can be leavers. I have a record of four 1700+ games in a row where some1 leaves before concede. Short guide to win 1700+ games: play with some1 you trust to be good enough and avoid pubstompers. While 1700+ games might sound "randoms ain't noobs/game ruiners anymore" it's not true. And playing versus 5 friends procents are against you, if you don't know everyone in your team. It's not the communication or "I have used to play with my friends". Pubstomps win because they will avoid retards, noobs, leavers and flamers. Banlist is also a good tool to get the prosents for your side.

You didn't speak out which mode should be played. With 5 friends and AP and using same heroes; the aoe combo for examble will give this side the clear advantage. So if you are alone, play Ban Draft. SD is not good if people can't communicate about their hero choices and AR is just about luck (personally I like to play it because you can't choose the hero you are good at, and playing same "must pick" heroes over and over is boring.)

You have very good points; however most of the points you mention do not fall under gameplay, which is what I focused my guide on. Picking what games you will play in, whether locks or no locks, ab or no ab, I can't tell you ONLY play non-em SD or whatever, play what you want. I only share with you the best way I think to win the game you are playing in.

Also, I should have included what mode, but (like all guides) it's pretty much directed at non-em AP. This is because you will rarely find pub games that host anything non-AP below 1650. SD is rarely played, and BD is usually saved for ih's or higher lvl play.

This guide also assumes that you are playing by yourself, which is what I based the picks on; the picks give you the chance to influence the game heavily during all stages; early, mid, and late game. Therefore you get more control of the game overall, and boost your chances of winning. If you play with a friend you might as well go babysitter/hard carry and farm safely and win the game in the end, and this still has to assume that your friend is good and can babysit you well, even if your other lanes get pwned.

I also stated this in a previous post; the hero picks I listed is not the definitive list of hero picks. They are just suggestions. For example I didn't list Puppet Master in the suggested list, but that doesn't mean you can't pick him and win. Maybe you suck with all the heroes on that list and you are only good with PM, then go ahead and pick PM and try to win. The list is just a list of heroes who, assuming you have the same amount of skill with all heroes, will have the greatest impact throughout the course of the game.

Lastly, I didn't claim that each bracket is "exactly that way." It's more of a loose guideline on what each PSR bracket is like (I also stated that at the beginning of the guide.) Yes you can have idiots in the 1700's and the 1800's, but that isn't the case for the majority of players there. And this also assumes, like the rest of the guide, that these players all play non-em (at least 50% non-em games played.)

Disconnects and leaves are things you cannot prevent, because sometimes **** happens. Therefore I can't tell you how to play in the occurrences of these events because it's not like I can tell you when it's gonna happen. You can try to prevent leaves by not being a dick/being supportive, but other than that, nothing else you can do. When it does happen just understand that you got unlucky and suck it up like a man.

Arcbound

01-02-2010, 03:14 PM

ElementUser

01-02-2010, 03:21 PM

However, I think that urging people away from playing initiators/support isn't really a good blanket statement. Your scenario is if you are literally the only competent person on the team. Even in pubs, that usually isn't the case.

It happens more often than not though

Benjami

01-03-2010, 04:21 AM

Hi, I am a totally new player to HoN and so as others have said my PSR and kill death ratio (lol) got utterly crippled for the first games :D (Sorry for those poor souls on my team in my first game)

It is now on the rise nicely and doing well as Plague rider but I still struggle a little sometimes vs Forsaken Archer. Anyone recommend a good tactic or pick vs him?

Bit open question I know, I think my biggest problem currently is lack of Hero knowledge, so I have been trying to play more of them to get an idea (bye PSR!)

After reading this might give Valk a go, could someone please say what CK I should be aiming for and when I should have acquired my core items? (eg 15mins mark or so) just so I can see how far off I am and aim to improve.

Any other cool tips be good.

Thanks

Halohalo

01-03-2010, 10:47 AM

Great guide !!! A++++ ! Will read again.

01-03-2010, 03:41 PM

Fun solid read stating some obvious and some less obvious general hints. The only thing that seems weird is that the guide seems to asume your skill level is different from your psr rating.

just had to comment on something I just saw:

"This is because you will rarely find pub games that host anything non-AP below 1650."

say waaat? At any given time of day there will be tons of SD and to a lesser extent BD games to pick from. Personaly played 70%+ sd in the 1500-1650 bracker since they launched this and don't remember a single time when there wasn't a game up.

iDiscarded

01-04-2010, 04:13 AM

PSR is not close to accurate IMO. On my main account(This one), (the one I DON'T play with friends), I somehow have a 1660 PSR (even though I suck hard)... When I pubstomp with my friends we always end up losing though... I think the LARGEST problem in winning pubs that we all have is LANGUAGE. Because most of my games I end up w/ a non-English speaker, and I'm sorry but I don't speak Pinoy or Brazilian... This leads to poor communication and poor ganks.

Oh and, GREAT guide. I hate semi-carries, but I see them as the ones that win the game for the other side. I just have to say that no matter HOW hard you own the opposing team in a pub, if you have 2 feeders (my friend's an ubernoob and feeds, but we still win SOMETIMES) you are screwed. And I have to say, if they are 4 melee / 3 melee team, grab a legionnaire and go in for the creep cut. Every game the idiot in mid never comes to gank. That is the ultimate win strategy for Pubs. (Esp. good if you have like a demented shaman or the likes to heal you)

One last note - Be nice to the noobies, otherwise the HoN community will die so fast, it will be dead before 2012.

Bluedevil5

01-05-2010, 04:19 AM

do you buy your team a courier?

Asator

01-06-2010, 07:32 AM

What not to do while writing guides

As a general rule of thumb, using Comic Sans in guides makes your eyes bleed.

coolstorybro

01-06-2010, 09:30 PM

disregard this post

coolstorybro

01-06-2010, 09:32 PM

What not to do while writing guides

As a general rule of thumb, using Comic Sans in guides makes your eyes bleed.
Agreed

coolstorybro

01-06-2010, 09:33 PM

YUNGBASEDGOD

01-07-2010, 07:07 PM

This was really helpful :)
hopefully i can pull of some more wins now!

RenyHK

01-17-2010, 02:00 AM

omg what an awesome guide. Coolica you are totally awesome i want you right now.

Overlord3k

01-17-2010, 03:27 PM

Shouldn't Torturer be included.

Scope

01-17-2010, 06:27 PM

I approve this guide, it has lots of similar thinking to mine.

I list heroes I have found to work in pubs 1600+ trough my over 1000 games played total in HoN:

:jera: :valk: :hell: :tort: :pyro: :thun: :pupp: :glac: :blac: :wret: :engi: :witc: :plag: :madm: :phar: :andr: :pest: :deme: :defi: :vood: :pebb: :vind:

Here I listed 24 heroes out of the total of 60 heroes in the game.

As you see, some of these heroes are semi-carries like the OP explained, some of them are multi functional weak INT heroes. These heroes I have found to work best in the 1600+ category. With these, you can't go terrible wrong, no matter who you might be against.

If someone wants I could explain each hero and why that particular hero would be good for winning in pubs.

Just my 20 cents.

PSR_PubStaR

01-18-2010, 12:54 PM

E. 1700 and Above
When you reach this PSR bracket, games become team battles, couriers are used to check runesI very disagree with this. Couriers are not for the purpose of checking runes. If the courier is used properly. You will see each lane taking turns using the courier and perhaps and even people fighting over it. You wouldn't even have a chance to endless bottle-courier strat.

So my psr was 1558 at one point, i went on to play 10 games of ophelia in a row:

18106108 Ophelia 5/1/3 293 511 302 144/0 37m49s Win 8 PSR No
18100937 Ophelia 2/1/14 360 412 235 151/2 42m14s Win 9 PSR No
18075019 Ophelia 5/7/6 237 389 195 140/1 44m29s Conceded -8 PSR No
18068896 Ophelia 8/0/10 308 553 334 117/1 33m16s Win 8 PSR No
18061183 Ophelia 1/3/7 308 389 289 191/2 43m46s Win 9 PSR No
17988180 Ophelia 6/1/9 307 454 310 138/0 38m59s Win 10 PSR No
17985739 Ophelia 1/0/4 294 364 262 93/0 22m28s Win 8 PSR No
17981410 Ophelia 4/2/4 279 329 222 92/0 28m55s Win 11 PSR No
17979041 Ophelia 4/1/5 324 438 312 182/1 36m39s Win 11 PSR No
17974547 Ophelia 7/5/7 262 469 229 164/0 44m53s Win 12 PSR No
http://stats.maide.ca/players/view/PSR_PubStaR
You sure not to pick ophelia?

being a well support can win low level games.

Kind of sad but true that semi-carries are the easiest to play. After n00bs mastered nothing but semi-carries they think they became the god of HoN.

Scope

01-18-2010, 02:18 PM

Kind of sad but true that semi-carries are the easiest to play. After n00bs mastered nothing but semi-carries they think they became the god of HoN.

No one said that semi-carries are the easiest to play I believe, which they are not.

Hard carries on the other hand do reguire your team to actually carry you until late game and so you are being more dependant of your team's skill than with the semi-caries. I think this was the OP's point.

The result of the battle is more affected by your team's total contribution than of the inviduals in it.

Meczor

01-19-2010, 04:57 PM

It feels like u kinda overkilld some brackets. I see many denies at early brackets...

CRAB_STEAK

01-20-2010, 10:19 PM

Deadwood would be worth adding to at least the first list.

adrift

01-22-2010, 02:22 AM

madman lich warlock pharaoh not effective above 1650? um ok

there are just as many terrible people 1700+ as anywhere else. it all depends on the people in the individual game

FrodoTbag

01-22-2010, 08:57 PM

Coolica

01-30-2010, 11:00 PM

IMO accursed should be up there as the multi purpose pub stomper as he make a great semi carry with his ult, he is almost never focused in lower bracket and with elder para&rune axe he turns into a beast in team fights.

And like someone mentioned before a good ophelia just stomps about everything in her path from early to late game, 6 second chain stuns pretty much destroys anyone.

I didn't say Ophelia is a bad hero, in fact Ophelia has very strong early game. However:

1) Not many players are good with Ophelia and utilizing her minions.
2) What happens when you are teamed up with retards who can't push and end the game early enough and late game rolls around? Your effectiveness diminishes.

My point isn't to say certain heroes just plain suck, it's that when you use heroes who are only effective during certain parts of the game, you are risking losing the game more if you cannot depend on your teammates to cover that vunerable duration (which is the case in pubs.)

Coolica

01-30-2010, 11:13 PM

It's not a bad guide, and I think it may help some people.

However, I think that urging people away from playing initiators/support isn't really a good blanket statement. Your scenario is if you are literally the only competent person on the team. Even in pubs, that usually isn't the case.

It's a bad statement that's true, and I really do feel like it's not a good idea to steer people away from support/initiators, but at the same time you have to be a really lucky player to play support in a pub and have competent teammates.

do you buy your team a courier?

I always buy my team a courier, no matter what, but I don't share unless I know they are competent/ask me (if the don't ask it means they're probably too nub to use it.)

What not to do while writing guides

As a general rule of thumb, using Comic Sans in guides makes your eyes bleed.

I didn't know that using Comic Sans was as bad as my computer teacher told me :confused:. Haha no idea why people hate it, I like it, but I changed it to something more plain now :D

Deadwood would be worth adding to at least the first list.

I didn't add Deadwood initially because I didn't play with him much, but after using him and seeing his skills I will add it.:smile:

Thanks for the input guys. As for the account raising thing, I have set up the account's PSR and all I need to do is raise it, but I don't play much anymore (maybe 2 games a week) so I don't know how long it will take... when I get a weekend break or something and I'm free from events I will take a day and raise it.

kimimaru`

02-14-2010, 07:11 PM

Nice guide, I'll follow it because I'm very unlucky in pub games. (Always end up with teammates who are newbies and quitters, and I suck sometimes too :x)

XTenebrousX

02-21-2010, 04:32 AM

I ward jungle, rune and sometimes Kongor and I'm around 1400 PSR...

Haor

02-21-2010, 05:01 AM

I ward jungle, rune and sometimes Kongor and I'm around 1400 PSR...

some ppl ward, not all

zakurum

02-21-2010, 08:04 AM

Actually winning pub games is not a big deal (the only problem is to find good teammates). U just need carefully chose a game and against\with whom u are going to play.

AAA_Boy

02-24-2010, 08:44 AM

I'd just like to add my 2 cents. Semi carries are indeed the way to go if you want to rick-roll your way to 1700. However there are some incredibly strong int heroes that can totally dominate a game aswell. Pyromancer, plague and vodoo being my favourites. Although blacksmith is very nice aswell.

Some tips:

1. If you are playing with low PSR teammates always try to play mid since it is without a doubt the most important lane.

2. proceed to gank their "best" player, usually the opposing carry. Over and over again.

3. Always carry a homecoming stone. I mean ALWAYS.

4. Ward both runespots (it will save lives)

5. Make sure you have a flying courier to maximize your lane presence.

6. Don't help your noob bloodhunter,arachna, swiftblade etc when they go on a Rambo mission into the enemy jungle unless you have the odds on your side. You'll end up dying alot if you escort them on their inevitable suicide runs.

7. Speak alot but be polite. Explain why they shouldn't run solo, tell them when to back. Ask them to buy wards politely etc.

Dron1n

02-24-2010, 11:03 AM

i actually play at 1500 -> 1550ish

and i deny alot, so do others, yes i agree there isnt alot of warding, but alot of people pick up eye and some including me get dust.

i think ur generalisations are pretty poor, u should take out psr and include skill level.

at 1700+ the skill level is pretty standardised, from 1000-1500 there are some good people that could play at 1600 happily but just beacuse u often get a feeder in ur team u can lose a whole lot of psr.

Fancy_Pantz

02-27-2010, 12:12 PM

Chronos and Zephyr are now IMBA! Should replace this entire guide with Zephyr and Chronos
B-B-B-Bird bird bird, Bird is the word

supply_depot

02-28-2010, 01:11 AM

I think you need to give Pollywog a little more credit. He's an incredible ganker, and I've (basically) won games with him alone from ganking down their team too much to even earn money.
Nice ideas, though!

Avathacis

02-28-2010, 05:56 AM

You forgot these heroes in "works in all brackets": :deme::hell:. They're god tier currently and can even carry the game.

SilverStars

03-10-2010, 04:34 AM

A. 1400 and Below
When playing in games that are 1400 and below, you can be certain that you are playing with noobs, newbs, and self-proclaimed pro's who boosted their main account with a feeder account that they are trying to salvage by playing in these games. Either way, the skill level is low. No warding, little to no organized ganking (and when they do it takes forever and isn't successful,) a lot of pushing lanes and jungle farming. Hell it's pretty much a farm fest. Also there is a lack of organized communication, like miss calls and calling for ganks. This is where you find players who auto-pick scout and never level eyes till 22-25. Auto-attacking is prominent and denying is non-existent. I.... just got owned. Well, my better-than-psr syndrome did, anyway.

Pretty informative guide, if you leave out the stuff like 15something-1650 players targeting Accursed's ult. It's reasonably detailed, too.

Edit: Just got a message from a friend, Aeonstorm, PSR 1300.

so i started with healing potion, logger's hatchet, iron buckler, wards of sight and a mana potion
As Zephyr.

Coolica

03-26-2010, 02:09 PM

Hm I should update this guide since MM is out and this generally applies more-so to MM.

Edit: I updated the guide to include/shift around some heroes and included a small analysis of Match Making.

Nazgul723

04-01-2010, 04:12 PM

This guide is pure win xD

S_SienZ

04-01-2010, 10:46 PM

Great guide.

But I thought Swiftblade worked well in all brackets ? Has so far worked wonders for me in pubs ...

pitermaster

04-06-2010, 10:39 AM

Well I downlaoded HoN with open beta and well atm the 1400-1550 is pretty much a lottery.
Usually it's like between ur 3rd and 4th skill bracket when it comes to warding, courier and most ppl know smth about laning and are more or less ok with denys and last hittings but there will be like 1-2 who just ruins game for their team.
Well I'm ofc not that good either as it will take me long time to learn all items/heroes but i know all the basics from dota.
Seems like my mistake was to pick more of that support/initiate heroes(well, succub/devourer are kinda my fav, succub being superior disabler(although teamfights rather hard to last long without good team) and devourer very good vs worse players at early laning and able to gank well pretty early.

04-06-2010, 11:13 AM

You might wanna add accursed into the playable department. He can actually be build for carrying while at the same time he can go full support. Of course he won't be as good as any true carry, but he can get close imo.

Didiuz

04-06-2010, 01:37 PM

Edit: Just got a message from a friend, Aeonstorm, PSR 1300.

As Zephyr.

Is there anything special with this? He randomed case solved

Elle1

04-07-2010, 01:55 AM

Sadly enough, there hasn't been any noticeable difference in the games i've played in whether they are 1500+ or 1700+ games (and likewise, depending on the rating of the players within) as far as courier/ward purchasing. All 5 of my most played heroes are int heroes simply because I prefer to pick heroes who are better candidates for buying wards (and courier to a lesser extent), because otherwise there's almost no one else who will, regardless of rating.

recks92

04-07-2010, 04:23 AM

You just helped me regain my psr
tnx alot dude :D

http://www.honarmory.com/sig/25213.png (http://www.honarmory.com)

Aeonstorm

04-16-2010, 03:51 AM

Is there anything special with this? He randomed case solved

Erm I think he was referring to the fact that I bought wards as a 1300 player. But fortunately I just broke the 1600s :)

Rubidxx

04-16-2010, 04:00 PM

1400 and below is SOOO TRUE. well, my psr are around 1300, nearly just becouse of noobs in my team. (okay, a bit is my fault too but NOT so much). NO one is talking, and no one is lisning. NO COMUNICATIONS. when like some1 buy courtiers no one are sharing. gahhh!

Grovel

04-19-2010, 02:29 PM

Sounds like I have to bite the bullet and just learn to mid really well.

Coolica

04-21-2010, 09:30 PM

The thing with Open Beta is that is ****'s up the 1500 bracket because of all the new accounts, so 1450-1550 is kinda a random lottery bracket now. However the other brackets still apply.

`Smite

04-23-2010, 07:33 AM

Great guide. Since im a new to HoN, this really helped me in what hero to choose.

ZeeKz

04-24-2010, 11:46 AM

This guide is very suitable for those who have problems in most games and for those who are new in HoN.

For me sometimes, it is the player's good skills and teamworks that makes the your PSR good and also LUCK..

Even though LUCK is not important, this also sometimes a key to the game because there are some (at least rare) players like 1600+ that are playing like noobs just because they have accounts that their PSR is below <1400 (used for setup games) and there are some (and again.. rare) players that have low PSR and still play good because they had their most of the games playing with the noobs. PSR is not really that accurate.

This is my concept in what I played in my games in HoN.

I got the main account that its PSR is between 1600 - 1700 and another account (got it because of the Open Beta) that its PSR is between 1500 - 1550.

ehtom

04-25-2010, 09:43 PM

Is there any strategy which is good for matchmaking games? My MMR went from 1520 to 1350 today (1560 psr) because of dcers or griefers or totally new players.

MuffinFTW

04-29-2010, 07:56 PM

I think people who are around 1400 psr deny. The ones that played around 50 games at least does. :P

DankySkunk

05-07-2010, 03:58 PM

How are u suppose to work your way up the brackets when pub games pair you with ppl that have no clue what they doin. I always get so close to 1700 then slowly work my way down back to 1500 or high 1400s. its pretty damn annoying.....also i dont do MM queue becuz u cant join it with a friend...it sucks!

DragooNick

05-09-2010, 09:54 AM

D. 1650-1700
Initiators are no longer afraid to initiate, and babysitters no longer steal kills.

I wish i would find more games like this ....
Imho this is the moste f**ked up PSR range, allways fighting against,
SuppKSer and no Initiation at all ... And if I play Supp then the carries feed like hell :D

Without proper mates, you have to be damn lucky to get above 17xx, i always fail 168x >_<" best was 1697 but never got the 17xx

But n1 guide all in all.

MadPsycho

05-10-2010, 02:14 AM

I definitely agree on the initiation aspects, but I think that one of the biggest factors for winning a game is communication. It's amazing how much easier it is to pull off a decent game just by playing with one friend while skyping/etc.
And I also agree with a prior poster regarding Ophelia. She's just a champ when it comes to pubstomping, provided you know how to press TAB and then 'Q' repeatedly.

IRI5H

05-13-2010, 03:33 PM

First off, excellent guide. I've recently started playing :witc:, and I've had the most success in pubs with him by ganking aggressively.

I have a couple questions:

Should I switch from :witc: to one of the semi-carries you listed that performs well in all brackets? I've already had a couple games where I did very well in the early to mid game, but it still wasn't enough to win because :witc: can't do it alone late game.

How does:pest: belong on your short list? He can't harass, and it seems like he usually needs assistance to gank before he gets farmed.

Safda

05-14-2010, 01:37 AM

A good place to start is to read the premium :pest: guide!

Pesti is a destroyer of WORLDS!
No but really, around when the ganking phase starts, he is really fast with Spri- Flight I mean.
You run in from fog or just straight up the lane if they're dumb (or just too slow to get away) and stun, you and your mate then proceed to start beating on them. (basically... stun and gank lol)
Or if you do this by youself, focus on intelligence heroes early on ("before he gets farmed") and you'll do fine, simply chase them down with flight.

His stun makes him good early game; his flight/speed makes him a good ganker combined with his stun (and/or ulti).

Later on these combined with his bash make him a very strong hero; played well he can be a semi carry too.

But as I said, read the Premium guide on him and if you play him correctly, skill him correctly, and buy the right items, you're well on your way to being a very beasty bug.

Adrenao

05-14-2010, 01:26 PM

what about :engi: as a semi carry?

SynzOfGlikus

05-18-2010, 01:36 AM

This guide brought my kdr from .6>1 and my psr from 1.5k to 1.6k TY :D

doctordoder

05-18-2010, 01:51 AM

honestly, from experience the hero effective in all brackets the most I would say is soulstealer. His nukes are ridiculous and awesome for ganking early game, as well as their wide aoe ensures a win in most early team fights. His ultimate is ridiculously powerful mid game as its the most powerful attack you can use in the entire game ignoring soul reaper and magebane's ult which depend on missing health/mana. Late game is not where souls stealer really shines, although his aura of -5 armor is quite powerful, especially with a shieldbreaker.

Pancakes`

05-19-2010, 01:47 PM

You should mention engi as a semi-carry too. He has great dps potential as well as pushing potential with turret and tinker. Devastating ultimate when placed right. IMO best semi carry.

PundiLord

05-22-2010, 06:36 AM

What do you think about Fayde?

For the rest, I like the guide, was searching for something like this! Good job.

Puzzles1

05-23-2010, 05:25 PM

Defiler and Hag can easily carry games in all brackets, btw.

Stiluz

05-27-2010, 01:56 AM

Nice guide, thanks.

IRI5H

06-01-2010, 04:18 PM

Of all the semi-carries you recommend as effective at all PSRs, only two are melee. I assume this is because trying to dominate solo mid is much more difficult with a melee because you'll likely face heavy harass.

Blood Hunter makes sense because Feast allows you to shrug off most harassment. But Pestilence? It seems like he would get harassed into oblivion solo mid by most of the other common mid heroes.

Am I missing something? I hope so, because I like Pesti a lot, and would like to try him using the method described here.

Coolica

06-02-2010, 11:52 PM

Sorry this guide is a bit outdated and as I'm swamped with schoolwork I'm a bit busy, but I will try to update it sometime this week.

icewall

06-04-2010, 01:51 PM

very good guide, even tho i dont fully agree with some of the hard carrys to avoid, zep, wild and war are all ok strong in the hole game and easy to jungle with and since there is no ganging jungle at lower lvl play = good heros to pick imo

DrBalle

06-10-2010, 05:32 AM

In my oppinion Fayde, Slither, Wretched hag and Puppetmaster are usually also rather safe choices since they're all viable in most game stages.

Good guide besides from that.

Adronius

06-10-2010, 06:07 AM

I really like your guide. It helps me to understand several things. Thanks for that.

SilverStars

06-13-2010, 02:15 AM

I wouldn't recommend laning Valkyrie mid. Of course, you can assume that the opposing mid is bad and therefore you'll dominate, but Valkyrie gets screwed over by any normal mid hero. Soulstealer for one completely destroys Valk because of her lack of base damage. Corrupted, Defiler, perhaps Hag can do the same. Valk lacks some kind of nuke, though her rune control's pretty good.

IAmLadyGaga

06-25-2010, 11:26 AM

Pick warbeast, farm up a puzzlebox, backdoor, win.

95% of the time people will not counter you effectively in any way (no tps, no wards, and no players tping in back to walk up on you). You'll also have truly through the roof dps with puzzlebox/abyssal and with ult up and an enemy team even slightly out of position (common when playing against randoms) you'll kill their squishies in about a second or two each.

Also they'll rage, which is always fun. :p

Helgi

06-27-2010, 07:58 AM

ok i realize this guide is a few months old but

Heroes effective 1550 and below:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Wretched_Haghero.gif/70px-Wretched_Haghero.gif
Heroes effective in all PSR brackets:
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/c/cb/Blood_Hunterhero.gif/70px-Blood_Hunterhero.gif

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/0ompaLoompa/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

C00LBeans

06-27-2010, 01:13 PM

Awesome guide.

I have learnt that you should not play support in pub games because if your teammates are newbies you will be completely useless.

xCTBxMav

06-27-2010, 01:44 PM

You won't get any backup from your teammates and they won't be smart enough to let you heal them at proper times/run away when you tank/go in when you initiate.

Ill start by saying I agree with much of this post. But guides like these create an entire psr range of players who think magebane substitutes as an assisting hero.

Edit: What I mean by this is there is an entire psr range which has people that will only play carries. They lack the versatility to play a majority of the heroes.

Loki

07-05-2010, 06:36 AM

I found behemoth rather effective in low brackets if played well. Even with mediocre farm he has the very special ability to make the entire enemy team run for it.

Machiavelli`

07-05-2010, 12:07 PM

Denying is non-existent in the 1400-1550 bracket?

I have more denies than the top 4 in the ladder. I think OP is too full of himself.

Dragnmn

07-05-2010, 06:04 PM

Denying is non-existent in the 1400-1550 bracket?

I have more denies than the top 4 in the ladder. I think OP is too full of himself.

You know, this always surprises me too. I think I get a lot of denies compared to the pro players. Anyone know why this is?

Cathadora

07-05-2010, 07:22 PM

Going 16-6-6 with Cd doesn't matter when your other 4 team mates have around 40 deaths between them.

Hughligen

07-06-2010, 03:59 AM

It's good, except your skill brackets are off. I used to have 1550+ psr but then I had a loosing streak and now have 1300+ (just in case people flame me for having bad stats)

In my games I have wards up almost constantly, I pick heroes based on good combo's with my friends and if a courier isn't bought at the start of the game something is wrong.

So what I'm saying is that as a 1300 psr player I am using tactics that you said are not used until the 1600+ tier, that being said I may just have extremely bad luck and should be in the 1700+ psr range.

I think I made so sense but I just think your psr ranges are off by a large margin.

itwasntmeo_O

07-06-2010, 11:42 AM

I approve! Pretty good tips overall for lower level play. I think the couriers can no longer use axes though... just a niggly thing.

Zanem

07-07-2010, 11:58 AM

The biggest difference in the brackets mentioned are team coordination. People may deny/ward at lower brackets, but in my experience players of that level never seem to know whats going on on a team level.

_SeniN`

07-09-2010, 01:23 AM

i feel that slither def needs to be on this list... just went 18-3-18 with him. makes a great ganker and pusher, i rarely play slither too, might start playing him more.

Blue_Aura

07-10-2010, 10:28 AM

Coolica

07-27-2010, 03:36 AM

i feel that slither def needs to be on this list... just went 18-3-18 with him. makes a great ganker and pusher, i rarely play slither too, might start playing him more.
Yea after finals I'll fix some stuff like adding more heroes and maybe replays and item choices.

Right now I feel like adding a section just for War beast because he can win games by himself by just bding towers.

RogerDodger

07-27-2010, 04:52 AM

If you have a friend Swiftblade + Slither/Glacius/Plague is instant victory

ChikenMcTest

07-27-2010, 12:46 PM

I don't think you can use a courier to cut down keeper eyes any more. In the 1700+ bracket

sharptooth

07-31-2010, 09:10 PM

Coolica

08-01-2010, 03:17 AM

Er can any mod help me insert another post area after the first 2? I want to expand the guide to include playing support in pubs and a War Beast section, but I don't have enough room between 2 posts.

Theburned

08-06-2010, 09:51 PM

btw warbeast is a pretty nice ganker with whispering helm :D

Theburned

08-06-2010, 09:55 PM

LAWL if u should be in 1700+ psr you'd be able to carry your team. there is no way a bad luck streak can bring a good player down that low xDDD

this is in fact true, when I was below 1500 we had a 1700+ player (sub account) couldnt lose with him on the team

eraye1

11-14-2010, 08:20 PM

btw warbeast is a pretty nice ganker with whispering helm :D

Abyssal Skull is better imo. You rush it anyways and that much lifesteal is kind of redudant when you're a strength hero.

eraye1

11-14-2010, 08:25 PM

this is in fact true, when I was below 1500 we had a 1700+ player (sub account) couldnt lose with him on the team

I completely agree. When I play nostats games or random 1500 games with friends, you can not drop that low. You don't even have to try to dominate your lane. Just go mid with soulstealer or corrupted disciple. Hell, you can semi-carry with any hero if your team is garbage. You can't drop below 1600 PSR if you really are a 1700+ player because you can't have that many chain feeders on your team.

What I've found to be useful in pubs is just encouraging your teammates, letting them pick heroes that form ok lanes against opposing lanes. I mean, glacius swiftblade might be an amazing lane, but if you have a 1400 who never played glacius before, don't try to force him to. Maybe he plays a lot of wretched hag? Let him get hag and get the slow first.

Also, encouraging teammates and trying to envision how teamfights should ideally go for you (tempest ultis, soulstealer portal keys in and follows ult or tree ultimates then fa ultis too.) is really helpful for lining up teamfights. Lastly, tell teammates when to get back. Oftentimes, I see low PSR players run into fights after it's already lost and just feed deaths.

GODLY

11-14-2010, 09:18 PM

Almost none of the semicarries in your list are semicarries.

`BlueBeard`

11-18-2010, 12:41 AM

Extract

11-18-2010, 03:52 PM

Almost none of the semicarries in your list are semicarries.

Idd.

This guide, from my experience, is very close to being perfect, yet a few things in him are absurd, such as VJ being effective to carry anything, even in low tier games, or the semi-carry list with :souls:, :corr: and (!!):arac: in it. Ara semi-carry? XDD

Noxploder

11-21-2010, 07:30 AM

So this guide encourages ppl to pick only selected heroes and to be a noob by not picking support heroes ...

Yaqu

11-21-2010, 02:27 PM

^
THIS

Not really, since you're basically the "star player" of your team, or at least should try to. You should try to by no means be reliant on your team and focus on your own performance hopefully intimidating your enemies to the point where they at least think
the game is lost making it auto-gg.

Forthemoves

12-11-2010, 12:09 PM

CRAB_STEAK

12-13-2010, 08:15 PM

Doesn't playing Witch Slayer or Plague Rider still put you in a posting of dependence late game? You might perform better since they are easier to play but you can never win without depending on members of your team at some point in time.
In games where the players' psr is particularly low, like mine, you will find that the other team's heroes will tend to do nothing but group up and push/defend mid-late game. If you have worked up such an early advantage with your Witch Slayer/Plague early game that you have a few levels in advantage on the other team's :mage::scou::flin::fors: or w/e you will easily dominate the key enemy heroes in teamfights, and their gpm will drop to the low 100's.

Or If you're really lucky, they will concede.

misterrunon

12-15-2010, 08:13 AM

LAWL if u should be in 1700+ psr you'd be able to carry your team. there is no way a bad luck streak can bring a good player down that low xDDD

there are some exceptions imo.. but i generally agree. i once had a 50 game span where in half of my games.. i had a dc or a feeding ragequitter. i lost something like 400 psr. this is all in spite of me averaging something like a 1.5 kdr with plenty of assists in that span.

but then again, im not claiming to be a 1700+ psr player. i'm probably a 1500-1650 at the moment.

d4bidden

12-15-2010, 08:58 AM

Carry or Semi Carry and go mid
???
PROFIT

pencilcheck

12-26-2010, 09:49 AM

Right now to win in low MMR/PSR bracket games I would recommend adding SB in the list too. SB is a powerful hero to be aggressive in the early game and ALSO mid game. The reason is that if you are good at SB, you don't need too much help in laning phase since your opponents would usually concentrate on auto attacking creeps and not harassing you a lot, so what you have to do? To be agressive and scare them away from the creep wave with spins. Don't worry about your mana, just spin for every creep kill you can get also harass hero if you can. Proceeding to ganking phase, all you have to do, is to help your teammates as much as possible by running in first and start spinning before they land a spell on you. If you are good at timing, combining with your ulti you will definitely get a kill easily and retreat successfully. Do a few more of those ganks and don't die if the situation is starting to going against you. Don't stay and try to help your teammate if outnumbered. If you still can't win during after ganking phase combined with pushing phase, the game would then be very tricky and you need to be very careful of your item choice, a single moderate mistake would ruin the game if you are the only one carrying for the team. Anyway, gl and hf playing SB with great agression.

SaucyTurtle

12-26-2010, 10:41 AM

Really good guide, helped my newb friend a lot =)

bfbfbfbf

12-26-2010, 12:45 PM

really good guide. deserves the premium spot for sure IMO

JackDaniels

12-26-2010, 03:30 PM

Pebbles not effective in higher tier levels is just a plain lie. It's probably the easiest way to win with Peb mid and crushing your enemies early and mid game by lots of instagibs.

Btw., an alternative to solo ramboing would be to find someone you feel comfortable to play with and play Carry/Support on the short lane.

Another point would be to talk with your teammates. Most of the people listen when you tell them which hero is needed for the lane up or to buy a courier/wards, even in lower (1600+) games.

PS: I'm not sure if i saw Wretched Hag in the list for Semi Carrys, if you missed him(her?), you should bring him in. He's perfect for the job.

Rullis

12-26-2010, 04:24 PM

In my opinion, you can add :keep: to the semi-carry role and having control and helping out teammates. If you lane him mid you can get eyes, take the runes, use your ulti at an early level 6. Win mid with a hatchet + natures protection (and maybe stats if you don't want eyes).

Aviseras

02-06-2011, 06:08 AM

Kudos for keeping this updated for over a year now.

Lots of useful info here, a good read!

Buckwild

02-06-2011, 10:30 AM

Great article!!
I've been playing in the 1650-1700 bracket for weeks now and your description of it is spot on. Great read for new players and even good players that are not playing at the comp level.

Coolica

03-07-2011, 01:04 AM

I have not updated this guide for a while. If anyone thinks I should (or if anyone still checks this) I will update it.

Also any feedback would be nice before I update it.

Jezu

03-07-2011, 12:45 PM

Indent your body text for easier reading.

TheJoo

03-09-2011, 01:39 PM

fantastic guide, HOWEVER:
You have called Moon Queen a semi-carry, but she is more towards hard carry status.
I'm guessing you just put her in there to fill the trend (mid heroes who carry = semi-carry), but she is a hard carry and should be written down as one.

DrJWilson

03-28-2011, 11:25 AM

I think he (or she) listed Moon Queen as a semi-carry due to her early game ganking potential that most other carries dont' share.

Farmboy213

03-29-2011, 12:27 AM

Guide was very helpf but still have crappy teamwork on my team. I'm forced to ward everything still and I got to tank and my team leaves me.... its really fruseraiting still. Just wish people would learn and play.

Coolica

04-19-2011, 01:21 PM

Do you guys think that if I update it and clean it up a bit they'll put it in Premium? If so I'll devote some time into fixing this guide up...

DrJWilson

04-19-2011, 02:14 PM

Do you guys think that if I update it and clean it up a bit they'll put it in Premium? If so I'll devote some time into fixing this guide up...

I'd certainly vouch for this to go Premium if you fix it up. Go for it! This guide has helped me a lot x).

Nuffing

04-20-2011, 05:33 AM

I stopped reading when I saw what you think of thunderbringer.

DrJWilson

04-20-2011, 08:25 AM

I stopped reading when I saw what you think of thunderbringer.

You have to realize that the OP means heroes in which you intend to "carry" your team to victory. You're assuming all of your teammates are incompetent.

AceSamael

04-21-2011, 07:45 AM

Pubs will get ganked easily because they don't pay attention to the mini-map, and they don't call misses either because they don't notice or it's too late.

This.
I ward, call MIAs, ping and usually inform who/how many are "homing in" on them yet they fail to notice :(

This especially sucks if you're like me and rarely (never) go carry.

Coolica

07-19-2011, 06:44 AM

I'd certainly vouch for this to go Premium if you fix it up. Go for it! This guide has helped me a lot x).
Hmm this guide is fairly out of date, I could go about fixing it and I do have some spare time and with these $10 accounts there will be a large influx of new players...

Or I could just write a completely new guide... Hmmm what to do what to do...

BLACKTROLL

07-30-2011, 12:25 PM

Hmm this guide is fairly out of date, I could go about fixing it and I do have some spare time and with these $10 accounts there will be a large influx of new players...

Or I could just write a completely new guide... Hmmm what to do what to do...

Update please if you can :) I (and many others) love this guide

Bigrnblackr

11-21-2011, 06:20 PM

I vote update, solid guide.

onufrie

12-20-2011, 02:17 AM

Awesome guide.

I have learnt that you should not play support in pub games because if your teammates are newbies you will be completely useless.

Boloks!!!
So thats the reason no1 whant to pick supoort in pub, and ist mostly me chosing it. Wich make this gude kinda bad in this regard!!

Nuffing

12-20-2011, 11:46 AM

I think you're writing stuff that you do not seem to know anything about.

Puppy_Stream

12-26-2011, 10:03 PM

nice read, it sucks the replays are down for now, but when it comes back up you should renew the replays, they're listed as hon 1.x really old, keep it up the good work, that is premium material for sure.