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pilf
12-14-2009, 04:36 AM
What do you think is probably the worst hero right now?


I'm pretty sure that it's Devourer.
I can't image ANY lineup where devourer can't be replaced by another Hero doing a better job than him.
Well, maybe there's 1 situation where he might be a valid pick.
That would be in a BD-Game with mostly Melee-Heroes available AND only a few stunners AND Jeraziah in your team. And that will never happen imho.

His laning is so weak. Any "normal" lane (Like 1-2 ranged with stuns/nuke. I don't talk about publanes like Nighthound/Armadon or other even worse combos) will keep him away from farm or kill him. Even with a strong lanepartner on his side. And so he will reach midgame without gear and has no chance to grow fat enough lategame.
That's what usually happens when I see Devourer picked.


Other heroes that are pretty useless (imho) most of the time because of better substitutes: Armadon, Rampage, The Dark Lady



- it's not about pubs here -

NyRe
12-14-2009, 04:48 AM
I'd say that the worst overall is Slither. He's decent in like the first 15 minutes of the game, but since then his effectiveness quickly drops to zero.

RogerDodger
12-14-2009, 04:50 AM
A good devourer mid can hurt, but it generally only works against weak solos.

Drasha
12-14-2009, 04:50 AM
Rampage is worse then devourer.

weirdballs
12-14-2009, 04:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH9tPvbq8uc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjTk_4L64BA

Fidel
12-14-2009, 05:07 AM
One of the best initiators and Chase heroes in the game ?(his hook, anyway) he has the abillity to kill himself, stopping heroes gaining gold. I don't think he's the worst hero in the game, there are worst in my opinion.

I'd say rampage, because of the fact you can have pestilence instead, who is all round a better hero. Ovbiously rampage has 3 stuns i think, if you include his passive. He has a movement speed buff. which is meh. His chase is counterable, unless you are on low mana, in which case a friend could probably help. But in-terms of laning early game rampage has high damage, but a slow IAS which doesn't really matter if you last hit/deny properly, but makes him useless in pushing other things. He can also get harrased easily.

Also, you mentioned the Dark Lady, i don't think there are any carries which can neccesarily replace her late game. Sure she's fairly hard to farm up, without the other team harassing you, but if you can she is undefeatable, with her silence, her charging strikes, her slow and her lvl 6. She's pretty much a true carry at end game.

Drakie
12-14-2009, 05:15 AM
Wretched Hag, I feel so weak and completely useless when I (random) pick her

AClipse
12-14-2009, 05:18 AM
^ 2 post above
so which hero is worse

WalrusTusK
12-14-2009, 05:19 AM
Bear in mind EM players a lot of int heroes (such as hag) may look like **** in EM but can roflstomp hardcore in non-EM.

I'd have to say Slither, other heroes can just do what he does better.

qtrng
12-14-2009, 05:21 AM
Slither, Hag, and Rampage are all better than Devourer.

Armadon is worse.

Chosenary
12-14-2009, 05:26 AM
Devourer isnt worst, hell he aint even weak. Underrated hero.

qtrng
12-14-2009, 05:28 AM
Devourer isnt worst, hell he aint even weak. Underrated hero.

He's one of the worst heroes in the game. He's good at killing bads, but many other heroes outshine him in that role.

pilf
12-14-2009, 05:34 AM
One of the best initiators and Chase heroes in the game ?(his hook, anyway).


?
Are you serious?

Without his core up he's far far away from being one of the best gankers.
What about: Pharao, Behemoth, Magmus, Valkyrie, Slither, Wretched Hag, Pebbles, Panda, Pyro, Bloodhunter, Glacius, Pollywog etc etc etc etc


These are good gankers that don't need any special gear to do a good job.
Devourer without boots, Headdress and Bottle is nothing. And besides that he will get outleveled easily and dominated by pretty much every common solo-mid hero.

As I already said. Against any serious lineup he is nothing.
And those videos say a lot, not.



And no wai! Hag is a really good hero since the buff.
Tons of burst AOE damage, great runecontrol, great ganking and a build-in blink.
How can this be worse than Devourer O_o


And yeah, Slither is not as good as Venomancer was in DotA and I just donno why. Must be the different metagame.
But he is one of the best lvl1 gankers in HoN.
Lane him with Swiftblade and you got a solid strong lane.

Thysios
12-14-2009, 05:38 AM
Blacksmith. Sure hes fun to play and what not but in a serious game you can't reply on complete luck

12-14-2009, 05:51 AM
Wretched Hag, I feel so weak and completely useless when I (random) pick her

Mainly for me its the But I don't want to get killed problem. The solution is apparently growing two balls and gunning straight into the middle of the other team, do or die style, let loose all your spells, and then port out when it gets too hot. With team support of course

Cyra
12-14-2009, 06:18 AM
Slither and Devourer are 2 heroes that I'm totally not a fan of.
Slither just doesn't scale good (which is quite impressive for any agi hero) and in general DoT-heroes aren't that potent when you got other heroes that can deal nearly the same amount of dmg but instantly.
Devourer IS a potent hero (though as mentioned about 5x as strong in bad pubs) but the main reason I don't like him is because he rather relies on you fighting bad people and he's probably the most useless hero in the game if the person doesn't know how to play it, and since he's actually quite skill-heavy due to his hook, his dmg combo's etc. it more often than not means you just go 4v5 as soon as Devourer comes into play.

That said, I'm not a good Devourer, I've only played him once and hated him, so I'm not all knowing about the guy either but I do get his general idea at least!

And Armadon isn't really a worthless hero, the main issue with him is that he can only be build as a tank, and a hardcore one at that, with his damage being rather low. He is most certainly not worthless though.

All things considered regarding Devourer, the MOST USELESS hero vote would really have to go for Slither.

shibbidydoo
12-14-2009, 06:18 AM
Quite Honestly, finding a "Worst Hero" is kinda moot in a game where everyone has their niche. (EVERYONE)

Devourer: That hook can REALLY mess up a team if you have an invisi char to scout ahead (scout/nighthound/rune/shroud) or wards, making a 5v5 teamfight 4v5. Yes he can be replaced easily with the likes of kraken, but still a decent hero. Also his str gain with right teamfights and ganks is damned amazing. Ive had pretty great success on a shortlane combo with him+pebbles as far as laning. Grab, one two punch+rot=dead almost anything. Again, hes a 2nd rate kraken, but not bad.

Dark Lady: Yes, madman is better. But when it comes to teamfights and BDing (shut up, its viable), her ult is damn awesome. Combine that with a reliable silence and a psuedoblink and shes pretty damned good.

Rampage: Ok, you got me there, hes very meh. FAR above devourer on suck list.

Slither: Dear lord his ult hurts, and his wards help a LOT when pushing. Map awareness is the number one advantage in games. With spammable 20 second wards, he is best played as a midgame ganker. Lategame, you help save pushes with wellplaced wards. USE THE WARDS, they're the reason to pick the guy when playing. (Of course, dont use slither vs blink initators such as kraken, just a bad idea.)

Hag: What the hell are you smoking? Shes amazing. Nuff said.

Kirbynator
12-14-2009, 06:24 AM
dark lady's ult doesnt do crap for backdooring anymore

LionKingMax
12-14-2009, 06:30 AM
Pubs: BlackSmith, Slither, Ophelia
Competitive: Scout, Nighthound, Rampage (and many more)

JimParsons`
12-14-2009, 06:46 AM
Ophelia and Rampage.

Ophelia is probably the worst.
Any good player can easily counter Ophelia's jungling and an ophelia without jungling is close to useless.

Fidel
12-14-2009, 06:50 AM
?
Are you serious?

Without his core up he's far far away from being one of the best gankers.
What about: Pharao, Behemoth, Magmus, Valkyrie, Slither, Wretched Hag, Pebbles, Panda, Pyro, Bloodhunter, Glacius, Pollywog etc etc etc etc


These are good gankers that don't need any special gear to do a good job.
Devourer without boots, Headdress and Bottle is nothing. And besides that he will get outleveled easily and dominated by pretty much every common solo-mid hero.

As I already said. Against any serious lineup he is nothing.
And those videos say a lot, not.


Devourers Intiation allows him to bring the enemies to him, for his team to destroy, instantly making it a 4 vs 5. That is far better than throwing yourself into 5 enemies. Don't get me wrong, it will be hard to farm, but you don't need to farm to use your abillities, You Rot, Hook, Ult. One enemy down (assuming team is there too).



Pharaoh - You go to your enemy stunning everyonein a smallish radius (300 or so i think) you have hell fire, good for ganking, puts you in the middle of a team fight.
Behemoth - best initiator there is.
Magmus - can intiatie with ult but then he is in the middle of 5 heroes (assuming no deaths)
Valk - Good stun, but it's a single target stun, and not the best for intiating, as you still have 4 other people to deal with.
Pebbles - Good stun, and chuck does alot of damage. No complaints


I said devourer was a good initiator, Most heroes can be agood ganker. Only Pudge and Andro can bring the enmy to them, and then disable them, however even andro has to place herself in the firing line.

i'm not saying he's the best hero ever, you are right about his lane presence being weak, the fact he can be harassed to great lengths. I am simply stating that he is not as useless as you seem to be making him out to be. Rampage for the worst hero :)

akitoes
12-14-2009, 06:51 AM
devourer

Vodka
12-14-2009, 07:10 AM
how has nobody said scout yet? I'm gonna say I'd rather have any hero besides scout. Devourer sucks, but he has way better disables than scout, and he doesn't have to wait until the last second to start a team fight.

CHR0N0S
12-14-2009, 07:33 AM
Devourer is as good as your worst hand.
Ophelia is as good as your worst micromanagement and map control.

VyyyE
12-14-2009, 07:55 AM
how has nobody said scout yet? I'm gonna say I'd rather have any hero besides scout. Devourer sucks, but he has way better disables than scout, and he doesn't have to wait until the last second to start a team fight.
I'd never pick a night hound over a scout. He's not as bad as people make him out to be, though he was before he was buffed.

SalsaSauce
12-14-2009, 08:02 AM
I see many pro players writing their opinions here.
I cannot imagine why people say that : Hag, Armadon, Ophelia are bad heroes.
Hag is awesome, Armadon is goddamn beastly and he can chase anyone running away, Ophelia needs some micro and map control but she's pretty strong if it comes to gankking with her pokemons.

IMO one of the most useless heroes recently if it comes to competetive games is GLACIUS. Anything except his aura and ice imprisonment is goddamn useless and his low HP makes him rly, rly easy target.

Nature1
12-14-2009, 08:03 AM
Devourers Intiation allows him to bring the enemies to him, for his team to destroy, instantly making it a 4 vs 5. That is far better than throwing yourself into 5 enemies.


More often than not you end up snatching an npc, his hook should be hero only, he would be very effective then. It's an easy fix as well. If you want to make him even stronger, stun the area where the hook plucks a player from for 1s.

qtrng
12-14-2009, 08:09 AM
Ophelia and Rampage.

Ophelia is probably the worst.
Any good player can easily counter Ophelia's jungling and an ophelia without jungling is close to useless.

Yeah bro, I always buy 8 wards at level 1 and keep all the medium and high level spawns from spawning all game, and ophelia can't counterward ever.


I see many pro players writing their opinions here.
I cannot imagine why people say that : Hag, Armadon, Ophelia are bad heroes.
Hag is awesome, Armadon is goddamn beastly and he can chase anyone running away, Ophelia needs some micro and map control but she's pretty strong if it comes to gankking with her pokemons.

IMO one of the most useless heroes recently if it comes to competetive games is GLACIUS. Anything except his aura and ice imprisonment is goddamn useless and his low HP makes him rly, rly easy target.

Armadon has zero presence in a team fight and is countered by an item everyone should buy anyway.

Mousie1
12-14-2009, 08:17 AM
Blacksmith. Sure hes fun to play and what not but in a serious game you can't reply on complete luck


blacksmith is an amazing hero ! very far from being a bad hero

Haor
12-14-2009, 08:23 AM
i don think there's such thing as a worst hero, cus is all depends on how well u play them, well maybe armadon cus i never c pro armadon before...

Glacius, hm.. my 2nd hero i used, i get kills in early game, but in late game is all depends on ur teammate cus he hp low & ult sucks

Whalecore
12-14-2009, 08:57 AM
Other heroes that are pretty useless (imho) most of the time because of better substitutes: Armadon, Rampage, The Dark Lady
She is actually a really good carry. Perfect if you have AoE on your team like Kraken, Behe or Tempest. She casts ult, they bunch up -> Initiate with AoE. Her AoE-silence is also pretty awesome.

Vodka
12-14-2009, 09:02 AM
Yeah bro, I always buy 8 wards at level 1 and keep all the medium and high level spawns from spawning all game, and ophelia can't counterward ever.



Armadon has zero presence in a team fight and is countered by an item everyone should buy anyway.

So the fact that he can slow and armor debuff one person while dealing stacking physical dps to the entire team with his spines means he has no presence in a teamfight? right.

I'll give you that he's countered by mana battery during laning, but otherwise he's still pretty good..

Melchizedek
12-14-2009, 09:03 AM
Where's that list of how often a hero wins and loses? Simple empirical proof!

pymmie
12-14-2009, 09:11 AM
Not sure people are labelling Orphelia in there, if you're skilled enough to micro effectively with her then she is extremely valuable.

I vehemently detest Scout, Rampage & Armadon; so I vote for these 3 equally the worst non EM heroes in the game. Rampage is a total cop out, I don't need to mention why Scout sucks, and Armadon is just plain annoying!

Melchizedek
12-14-2009, 09:18 AM
Top 3 Worst Heroes:
1) Devourer
2) The Dark Lady
3) Interesting surprise. Torturer
Then Panda etc.

http://honstats.heroku.com/?sort_by=percent_lose&sort_dir=DESC

But very interestering. Still, devourer by FAR the worst, a couple percentage points at least.

EDIT: Rampage is at 24th! Not bad. Armadon 11, Scout 9th, Ophelia not bad at 30. Whoever said Glacius, lol, he's sitting comfy at 41, Blacksmith at 46!!! Very high tier hero apparently.

Cyra
12-14-2009, 09:22 AM
Where's that list of how often a hero wins and loses? Simple empirical proof!
Devourer has been the king of losing for a few weeks now, but as I've also said earlier he's not the easiest hero to play, combined with how he's just not that powerful of a hero and you got yourself a #1 hero for getting owned.

http://honstats.heroku.com/?sort_by=percent_lose&sort_dir=DESC

As you can see every week the past 2 months nearly the top 3 loss% has been Devourer, The Dark Lady and Torturer. Yet, it won't be the first time I've seen Torturer being played in a competitive game, but the thing with him is that he's not the easiest hero, the best way to kill someone with the guy is to just stand close to them and let your ulti and impalement kill them, but do you think many pubs would get that idea? Heck no, he's an int you don't get close to people with squishy int!
Double those thoughts up with the fact that his stun is (imo anyhow) one of the harder stuns to land and you got yourself a winner.
I mean Pyromancer is also in the top 10 nearly all the time, why? I can practically guarantee that's due to 2 spells that require the player to aim, even though he's faster than Torturer and has a skill to make it even faster people will always be a bit on the fail side of that, yet Pyromancer is very common in competitive play.

In other words you can't base anything on loss% as it can easily mean the hero is simply pub unfriendly, and if you're only gonna think about pubs you're gonna **** up competitive play which isn't the best idea.



Also, regarding the Dark Lady, I think with her its more that many pubs fail to use her ulti properly, the same goes with Valkyrie really, you can't just activate it and expect the randoms on your team to go charging for the enemy, so by the time they do anything her ulti is already over. Besides that, she is a very hard late game carry due to the way her charge works, and I'm guessing most people either fail to realise that and keep killing themselves at low level, which is just stupid when you're playing a hero like TDL, SW or Chronos. Those are a few heroes that just cannot be allowed to die, as their farm is to important.

Fidel
12-14-2009, 09:28 AM
Devourer has been the king of losing for a few weeks now, but as I've also said earlier he's not the easiest hero to play, combined with how he's just not that powerful of a hero and you got yourself a #1 hero for getting owned.

http://honstats.heroku.com/?sort_by=percent_lose&sort_dir=DESC

As you can see every week the past 2 months nearly the top 3 loss% has been Devourer, The Dark Lady and Torturer. Yet, it won't be the first time I've seen Torturer being played in a competitive game, but the thing with him is that he's not the easiest hero, the best way to kill someone with the guy is to just stand close to them and let your ulti and impalement kill them, but do you think many pubs would get that idea? Heck no, he's an int you don't get close to people with squishy int!
Double those thoughts up with the fact that his stun is (imo anyhow) one of the harder stuns to land and you got yourself a winner.
I mean Pyromancer is also in the top 10 nearly all the time, why? I can practically guarantee that's due to 2 spells that require the player to aim, even though he's faster than Torturer and has a skill to make it even faster people will always be a bit on the fail side of that, yet Pyromancer is very common in competitive play.

In other words you can't base anything on loss% as it can easily mean the hero is simply pub unfriendly, and if you're only gonna think about pubs you're gonna **** up competitive play which isn't the best idea.



Also, regarding the Dark Lady, I think with her its more that many pubs fail to use her ulti properly, the same goes with Valkyrie really, you can't just activate it and expect the randoms on your team to go charging for the enemy, so by the time they do anything her ulti is already over. Besides that, she is a very hard late game carry due to the way her charge works, and I'm guessing most people either fail to realise that and keep killing themselves at low level, which is just stupid when you're playing a hero like TDL, SW or Chronos. Those are a few heroes that just cannot be allowed to die, as their farm is to important.


5. Scout (http://honstats.heroku.com/heroes/show?hero_names%5B%5D=Scout&stat_name=avg_kill_death_ratio)
Played - 171,725
Won - 78,085
Lost - 93,642 Scout lost the most games, no surprise there ^^

CHR0N0S
12-14-2009, 09:30 AM
Devourer is the king of losing because the shitty level of the HoN players.

Godzu
12-14-2009, 09:35 AM
Worst hero in competitive is probably rampage, I don't think he will ever be picked.

Tajak
12-14-2009, 09:54 AM
Top 3 Worst Heroes:
1) Devourer
2) The Dark Lady
3) Interesting surprise. Torturer
Then Panda etc.

http://honstats.heroku.com/?sort_by=percent_lose&sort_dir=DESC

But very interestering. Still, devourer by FAR the worst, a couple percentage points at least.

EDIT: Rampage is at 24th! Not bad. Armadon 11, Scout 9th, Ophelia not bad at 30. Whoever said Glacius, lol, he's sitting comfy at 41, Blacksmith at 46!!! Very high tier hero apparently.

This doesn't mean anything. These stats just show what heroes newbs play most. TDL is awesome. Tort is awesome. Panda is awesome.

Ignoring player skill and just looking at heroes, Devourer is pretty weak as he has nearly no team presence. I'd never focus him first in a team fight, and he can't really do much to me (esp. if my team is full of stunners). Dev's only disable is extremely circumstantial.

I also think Engineer and Rampage are awful.

Tajak
12-14-2009, 09:59 AM
Devourers Intiation allows him to bring the enemies to him, for his team to destroy, instantly making it a 4 vs 5. That is far better than throwing yourself into 5 enemies. Don't get me wrong, it will be hard to farm, but you don't need to farm to use your abillities, You Rot, Hook, Ult. One enemy down (assuming team is there too).



Pharaoh - You go to your enemy stunning everyonein a smallish radius (300 or so i think) you have hell fire, good for ganking, puts you in the middle of a team fight.
Behemoth - best initiator there is.
Magmus - can intiatie with ult but then he is in the middle of 5 heroes (assuming no deaths)
Valk - Good stun, but it's a single target stun, and not the best for intiating, as you still have 4 other people to deal with.
Pebbles - Good stun, and chuck does alot of damage. No complaints


I said devourer was a good initiator, Most heroes can be agood ganker. Only Pudge and Andro can bring the enmy to them, and then disable them, however even andro has to place herself in the firing line.

i'm not saying he's the best hero ever, you are right about his lane presence being weak, the fact he can be harassed to great lengths. I am simply stating that he is not as useless as you seem to be making him out to be. Rampage for the worst hero :)

Devourer is NOT an initiator. He's a ganker.

Voidi
12-14-2009, 10:03 AM
Rampage and Night Hound.

Skull2d
12-14-2009, 10:13 AM
Torturer for sure.

liq3
12-14-2009, 10:21 AM
Rampage and NH are not useless. Good NH's are scary. Rampage can nearly stunlock someone with very few items (and kill them in the process). There's also 0 chance escaping a well built rampage without escape mechanisms or help.

Devourer is not useless. He's just ludicrously easy to feed and fail with. His hook is hard to land and noobs fail it pretty much all the time. Good devourers, like good NH's, are scary.

Why? You take 75dps from decay after basic magic armour. This is at about 20-25 minutes ingame. In a normal and even game, no carries have any big items yet (they should be very close to finishing one). 75 + 100 from devour for 3 seconds is 525 magic damage. That's as much as pyros' ult at level 2 or 3. It's also a 3 second disable. If you're hitting more then one person it starts stacking too.

If you give devourer mid, he's a beast, not because he can farm well (he can't >.>), but because he gains levels quicker then in a double lane. This lets him gank faster. A level 7 devour coming up behind you when you're level 5 is not fun, since you have 2 choices. One, run at devourer and die. Two, run at the 2 people you're laning against (and who are now charging at you) and die. Not fun.

And his ability, as others have mentioned, to turn teamfights into a 5v4 is not to be underestimated. If his team is right near, anyone he hooks will explode, instantly, with no hope of survival. Only 2 other heroes in the game can do this, and one is probably going to die in the process.

xbayrockx
12-14-2009, 10:23 AM
Ophelia the worst hero?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHHAHAHA

what a moron...

EDIT: Rampage, Devourer are both bad.

sieneh
12-14-2009, 10:27 AM
Rampage, Devourer and Slither(mainly because he loses effectiveness really fast).

Murie
12-14-2009, 10:31 AM
Has chronos been mentioned yet? Needs way too much farm to be effective, Ult makes any other melee on your team useless for the duration unless he's ridiculous and catches 2/3 people on the edge.

qtrng
12-14-2009, 10:41 AM
Has chronos been mentioned yet? Needs way too much farm to be effective, Ult makes any other melee on your team useless for the duration unless he's ridiculous and catches 2/3 people on the edge.

Chronos is a decent hero if you can chronosphere well and have a team that can capitalize on that. He's effective unfarmed and excellent once he has geo's.

emiltheboy
12-14-2009, 10:47 AM
ENGINEER

d0ss
12-14-2009, 10:48 AM
Tree is the worst hero
useless in a lane, and revolves around his ULT cd.

Flying chicken counters his eyes, armor passive is pretty good though, but still, terrible terrible hero.

Blockk
12-14-2009, 10:54 AM
Anyone that says Slither / Torturer / Ophelia is bad is in fact...bad.

sieneh
12-14-2009, 11:51 AM
Anyone that says Slither / Torturer / Ophelia is bad is in fact...bad.

Slither scales terribly, he is very effective early and is a great ganker, however mid/late game he becomes more support oriented where the more "useful" heroes come into play.
Also, his DoTs make it very easy for him to have his kill denied and are all removable with defusal.

With that being said, Slither shouldn't be getting kills in the first place, he should be setting them up for heroes that can actually benefit from them.(any decent carry)

Similar to the way Int heroes should be setting kills for your carry heroes, rather than using your nuke to get a kill in a gank the enemy has NO way of getting away from.(Think Pyro/Lion/TB here)

Tort and Ophelia are good.

drakmathus
12-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Tree is the worst hero
useless in a lane, and revolves around his ULT cd.

Flying chicken counters his eyes, armor passive is pretty good though, but still, terrible terrible hero.

I think his recent rework has helped quite a bit. I think you'll see him win more on that stats site if the stats haven't already.

edit: It is INCREDIBLY frustrating to get a tower down low on health in a laning phase, group together to push it only to find it is at/near full health and is taking even less damage than before.

dreamex
12-14-2009, 02:03 PM
I think his recent rework has helped quite a bit. I think you'll see him win more on that stats site if the stats haven't already.

edit: It is INCREDIBLY frustrating to get a tower down low on health in a laning phase, group together to push it only to find it is at/near full health and is taking even less damage than before.

60% of people don't know you can armor buildings.

40% of people have never played Tree period.

Also, Slither's ultimate does cumulative 972 damage to up to 5 people over its duration which is pretty good even late game.

It's hard countered by Headdress though.

He's also invaluable in pushing and defending with ward spam for sight.

That and he's almost guaranteed first blood if you start him as a level 1 roamer.

Pwnmanship
12-14-2009, 02:11 PM
It's hard countered by Headdress though.

That's kinda bullshit, the ulti is not about damage (maybe 20%) rest is about your team that damages the opponents who are stuck.

dreamex
12-14-2009, 02:14 PM
That's kinda bullshit, the ulti is not about damage (maybe 20%) rest is about your team that damages the opponents who are stuck.

I am talking about Slither's ultimate, not KotF's.

Rassen
12-14-2009, 02:23 PM
Lol at all the dev's bashers. In the right hand, dev is extremely powerful. Lets not talk about whether he can gank a lot of ppl early game or not, just the simple str bonus he receive from third skill is already make him decent. As long as a dev doesnt feed too much he gonna end up with tons of hp, high mdef and his ulti is a 3sec disable that goes through shrunken head. He is really decent even at end game as he can picking off ppl before team fight even begin (usually forcing enemies to jump in to save their friends and fight under disadvantages) and disable important targets (ulti got pretty low cd also help a lot).

EGNesTea420
12-14-2009, 02:46 PM
I'll probably agree that rampage is the worst in a competitive sense. His main "thing" is pretty much just killing people who can't notice him charging across the map.

In a normal fight he just feels like a weak addition considering what you could put in his place instead.

HueHang
12-14-2009, 02:46 PM
Ophelia. If she cannot handle jungling.

EGNesTea420
12-14-2009, 02:49 PM
Ophelia. If she cannot handle jungling.

That's like saying "Carry, if he can't farm".


Btw to those saying Ophelia I actually saw a shoutcast of a match where a team used Ophelia really well. Can't remember what match it was though.

Aeturnum
12-14-2009, 02:59 PM
I don't know if there is one "worst" hero. Given the right lineup, nearly any hero can have their day (game) in the sun.

I do think there are heroes that are really easy to mess up, however. They have a small (often potent) window of effectiveness, and if they don't "make it" they'll be farmed for the rest of the game.

"hard" heros include: Devourer (hard to land skills, have to play it close with life), Ophelia (micro can be tricky, weak late game), Slither (Not a whole lot of use late game, comparably, always fragile), Dark Lady (very fragile early game with few escape options), Pollywog (so easy to die, easy to get in rut)


That being said, I just can't think of any compelling reason to pick: Nighthound, Rampage, Warbeast, Scout, or Armadon. A good team can pick better heroes to fill any of their roles. They do have their games...but it always seems like you'd rather have another hero.

Extreme_Cake
12-14-2009, 03:10 PM
Zephyr. Completely, utterly pointless. I honestly can't think of any reason why you would ever pick him in a competitive game.

sieneh
12-14-2009, 03:19 PM
Lol at all the dev's bashers. In the right hand, dev is extremely powerful. Lets not talk about whether he can gank a lot of ppl early game or not, just the simple str bonus he receive from third skill is already make him decent. As long as a dev doesnt feed too much he gonna end up with tons of hp, high mdef and his ulti is a 3sec disable that goes through shrunken head. He is really decent even at end game as he can picking off ppl before team fight even begin (usually forcing enemies to jump in to save their friends and fight under disadvantages) and disable important targets (ulti got pretty low cd also help a lot).

Yeah, that all works well, however in a high skilled game he will be:

1. Ignored, unless facing a team of really heavy nukers where him and Magebane work surprisingly well because of shitloads of +magic armor(and the ability to rape squishies fast)
2. His ganking will be countered by constant warding
3. It doesn't matter that he has shitload of HP, his actual team fight presence is 0, his rot is largely ignored later on, his pathetic movement speed doesn't help him there either.
4. His regular damage is pathetic and his ultimate should be interrupted right away, leaving him with WHAT exactly in a team fight?

If you want a ganker, theres plenty of heroes who do that better.
If you want a specific anti-mage character, theres are better choices than him, unless its a purely spell based team, in which case it might make sense to get Pudge + Idol fairly fast.

He is lacking, along with the fact that his rot isn't the same here as it is in DoTA or at least it doesn't seem to be the same.
His hook is somewhat clunky as well, though I have no problem using it.

He isn't picked because he brings nothing to a teamfight that another character can't do better, he is a ganker/roamer from 7 onwards, but he can be shutdown fairly well with effective warding, even without warding, as long as map awareness is high, Pudge isn't really a threat.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing Pudge when I screw around, but for all intents and purposes, he is useless unless playing in a lower skilled game.

Chosenary
12-14-2009, 05:16 PM
People dont really understand that rot is 100 dps aoe without cooldown. That is underestimated. Farming gets so easy at mid game.

Rassen
12-14-2009, 05:24 PM
Yeah, that all works well, however in a high skilled game he will be:

1. Ignored, unless facing a team of really heavy nukers where him and Magebane work surprisingly well because of shitloads of +magic armor(and the ability to rape squishies fast)
2. His ganking will be countered by constant warding
3. It doesn't matter that he has shitload of HP, his actual team fight presence is 0, his rot is largely ignored later on, his pathetic movement speed doesn't help him there either.
4. His regular damage is pathetic and his ultimate should be interrupted right away, leaving him with WHAT exactly in a team fight?

If you want a ganker, theres plenty of heroes who do that better.
If you want a specific anti-mage character, theres are better choices than him, unless its a purely spell based team, in which case it might make sense to get Pudge + Idol fairly fast.

He is lacking, along with the fact that his rot isn't the same here as it is in DoTA or at least it doesn't seem to be the same.
His hook is somewhat clunky as well, though I have no problem using it.

He isn't picked because he brings nothing to a teamfight that another character can't do better, he is a ganker/roamer from 7 onwards, but he can be shutdown fairly well with effective warding, even without warding, as long as map awareness is high, Pudge isn't really a threat.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing Pudge when I screw around, but for all intents and purposes, he is useless unless playing in a lower skilled game.

PPL do not ignore a character with Mock, then why would they ignore a pudge with rot on, even in late game rot deal a lot of hurting if not being dealt with quickly.

He bring to the teamfight an aoe of 100mdamage per sec while apply slow at the same time. His hook is a strong nuke and his ulti is a 3 sec disable that goes through everything. That is a whole lots of team benefit i would say. His normal damage while not exactly amazing is still decent thank to his extreme str.

Of course i never say he is one of the top tier but he is not lacking at all, the hero is decent. Tiggest drawback is the high skill requirement.

dreamex
12-14-2009, 05:30 PM
PPL do not ignore a character with Mock, then why would they ignore a pudge with rot on, even in late game rot deal a lot of hurting if not being dealt with quickly.

He bring to the teamfight an aoe of 100mdamage per sec while apply slow at the same time. His hook is a strong nuke and his ulti is a 3 sec disable that goes through everything. That is a whole lots of team benefit i would say. His normal damage while not exactly amazing is still decent thank to his extreme str.

Of course i never say he is one of the top tier but he is not lacking at all, the hero is decent. Tiggest drawback is the high skill requirement.

No, biggest drawback is he can't lane. At all.

Except maybe with Omni in pubs.

Pwnmanship
12-14-2009, 05:32 PM
I am talking about Slither's ultimate, not KotF's.
Ok then I get your point.

Zephery. Completely, utterly pointless. I honestly can't think of any reason why you would ever pick him in a competitive game.
True

Pho3n1x
12-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Rampage.

I'M GONNA CHARGE YA BTCH!!!!!!1111
WTF YOU TP'D AWAY POOR ME I CAN'T DO ****.

phamilyguy
12-14-2009, 06:05 PM
Dark lady and Devourer are both challenging heroes to play, which is why they have such low usage and a relatively low pool of players who can competently use them. In competitive play, Dark Lady would almost certainly never be picked because she is a one-trick pony: the ultimate. Beyond that ultimate, her skillset can be covered well by many of the other heroes in the game. Devourer is a rough hero for most people because hooking requires some decent skill. Apart from that, he is a well rounded tank with nice disables. It's just that Devourer gets no slack whatsoever for missing hooks.

Ophelia is a great hero in the hands of a great player... but by great player, we mean one who is specificly versed in using her to the fullest potential. That's just a lot of micro. The problem is, this game is unlike other games in which micro is one of the most valuable assets (think Starcraft) and consequently, players who can micro are bound to play other such games instead.

To be fair, all heroes in this game have their own abilities and synergies. If I had to single out a hero to nominate as the worst hero however, it would have to be by far Rampage. In a pub game, he is a beast because pubbers generally don't have a good sense of awareness for their surroundings. If Rampage has been gone for quite some time, you could imagine he'd be charging someone right? Unfortunately, pubbers get into the state of mind where the primary focus is their lane: what happens in their lane, who is and isn't in their lane, and where they stand in their lane relative to the towers. When people get out of this mindset and become more aware of others, Rampage's effectiveness becomes null.

You look at other predominantly single target heroes like Panda and try to compare them to Rampage... but in the end, Rampage is only so useful in as much as stopping one target. Even Panda has the ability to stun an area, disable/nuke enemy formations in the front, and and a single target stun that completely disables the opponent for a duration of channeling time. Rampage's ultimate knocks them back, and if you're lucky, the bash will process multiple times. But in most cases, don't count on it.

sieneh
12-14-2009, 06:25 PM
PPL do not ignore a character with Mock, then why would they ignore a pudge with rot on, even in late game rot deal a lot of hurting if not being dealt with quickly.

He bring to the teamfight an aoe of 100mdamage per sec while apply slow at the same time. His hook is a strong nuke and his ulti is a 3 sec disable that goes through everything. That is a whole lots of team benefit i would say. His normal damage while not exactly amazing is still decent thank to his extreme str.

Of course i never say he is one of the top tier but he is not lacking at all, the hero is decent. Tiggest drawback is the high skill requirement.

I like how you compared a rather big AOE which has no drawbacks(apart from getting focused that is) to a tiny AOE centered around a hero with 285 base movement speed, which can at most, get 1 or 2 people at the same time, +its magic damage, so its actually 75 damage/sec after reduction, fully maxed out.(100 magic damage/sec-25% reduction from armor, if no one has a HoD)

Again, there is no reason for the other teams members to ever get close to Pudge(apart from that unlucky bastard who got hooked), don't get me wrong, hes an awesome asset in lower skill games, I love playing him from time to time just to **** around with him.



Dark lady and Devourer are both challenging heroes to play, which is why they have such low usage and a relatively low pool of players who can competently use them. In competitive play, Dark Lady would almost certainly never be picked because she is a one-trick pony: the ultimate. Beyond that ultimate, her skillset can be covered well by many of the other heroes in the game. Devourer is a rough hero for most people because hooking requires some decent skill. Apart from that, he is a well rounded tank with nice disables. It's just that Devourer gets no slack whatsoever for missing hooks.



I don't believe that you actually called Dark Lady a one trick pony, considering she has a built in silence, escape mechanism, slow and a damage buff that scales through the whole game.

Though, I have to admit you're right, her skillset CAN be covered by:

Hellflower
Tablet
All +Damage items
Fenrir's Fang/Frost skull.

Except you get all of these for free.

She is challenging to play however, mostly because shes like glass early game until she farms a bit.
Then the fun begins.

Pudge isn't bad, he is just easy to counter by: Having map awareness, not being an idiot and having map control, even if you fail # 3, you can still dodge Pudge most of the times provided you fulfill #1 and #2.

RobertLoggi1
12-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Blacksmith. Sure hes fun to play and what not but in a serious game you can't reply on complete luck

That's because you aim for BS to be a hero killer. He is a support hero and if you played him as such you'd understand he is great. His slow and buff are great to help carrys get there kills.

On topic, I'd say the worst in my opinion would be Armadon. He needs a good amount of items to tank and his third skill is just silly. "Oh, I taking damage!" Turns around... "Derp derp herp!"

Azkalas
12-14-2009, 06:41 PM
I dunno, the only thing i learned till now is that Scout is the noob's hero. :P Easy to play him, and yet i usually just saw goddamn bad Scouts.

Oh no, no...sry, all the time i see a player picking any invi hero, he usually suck with it.

About what hero is the worst an what is the bext, i dunno. It depends of some things. Some heroes are more effective against one, and lesser against another. Each hero have it's better point. Guys who's ******* up with the Devourer pretty sure never got a right hook over an inteligence hero. Hook + Decay + Ult is a kill for sure.

Alakazam2
12-14-2009, 06:50 PM
Armadon. No question. There is simply no hero worse. Blacksmith is close to him but not quite there. Zephyr is pretty close aswell

sneakysob
12-14-2009, 07:15 PM
This is one of the most fail threads I have encountered in my travels across these forums.

P.S. War Beast

`aNarchy
12-14-2009, 07:20 PM
Blacksmith. All skill was taken away from Ogre Magi when rushing Staff doesn't increase his ult. Too random of a hero, and only good for being a ward/buff/support *****.

Devourer rapes, and is in no way a terribly weak laner. Obviously you're not gonna want a melee hero to lane with him(most of the time). Most ranged heroes do wonders with early game rot and at least lvl 3 hook. Once he gets his ult he's a great ganker.

rayanman
12-14-2009, 07:30 PM
Carry armadon is hilarious, slightly underrated tank imo.

Leetard179
12-14-2009, 08:01 PM
armadon is beast wtf u on

ophelia sucks

qtrng
12-14-2009, 08:14 PM
This is one of the most fail threads I have encountered in my travels across these forums.

P.S. War Beast

War beast is excellent since his ulti got buffed =/

20m shieldbreaker+boots+abyssal then kill kids for 14 seconds out of every 40.

Anaklu
12-14-2009, 08:18 PM
ophelia. i knoww people who are pro at micro can rape with her, but you have to be bad to not know how to hard counter ophelia.
slither because nothing scales, you have to get SOTM to be at all useful without other luxury items.
pharaoh because nothing scales, he's completely item dependent lategame and his sniping finish is utterly situational.

qtrng
12-14-2009, 08:24 PM
ophelia. i knoww people who are pro at micro can rape with her, but you have to be bad to not know how to hard counter ophelia.

After their entire team ganks you while you ward their pull spawn (because they know you're going to because they chose Ophelia), Ophelia counterwards like a nonterrible player. What do you do?

Well_Shebber
12-14-2009, 08:29 PM
If you think Devourer is bad, then you haven't played against a really good one, who can be a real terror mid.

Slither is just plain bad, even when good people play him. He shines briefly in early/mid game when his DOTs can do good damage, but he is useless after that. The cherry on top is that other heroes can do the same job mid game ganking, and be useful later on.

Anaklu
12-14-2009, 08:42 PM
After their entire team ganks you while you ward their pull spawn (because they know you're going to because they chose Ophelia), Ophelia counterwards like a nonterrible player. What do you do?
You kinda changed perspective too much for me to follow that. being aggressive in the forest that ophelia's in is all you really need to seriously dimple her xp/gold gain. not that i play against professional ophelia players.. but still ;)

Pho3n1x
12-14-2009, 08:44 PM
You kinda changed perspective too much for me to follow that. being aggressive in the forest that ophelia's in is all you really need to seriously dimple her xp/gold gain. not that i play against professional ophelia players.. but still ;)

Except the minotaurs really rape you early game. So she is by no means easy to gank/harass

Vexew
12-14-2009, 09:09 PM
Don't think any hero can win against Ophelia in forest 1v1 ye, Minotaur's or Catmen just rape you before you know it that early game.

Also possibly the least item dependant hero to, if you ward, then Ophelia is going to have no problems counterwarding, especially since you always get flying courier.

Proph3t1
12-15-2009, 01:43 AM
Uh, gonna have to go with Rampage.

Darkshine1
12-15-2009, 02:34 AM
Zephyr. SO BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

Haor
12-15-2009, 04:55 AM
i don think Ophelia can survive in mid / late game... I c pro Zephyr before, so it doesn't suck so bad

And ya.. i kinda agree with rampage cus rampage only do stun and almost all of the time teammate is the 1 who kill the rampage target

Dataslycer
12-15-2009, 05:16 AM
Mid game she is still strong as she can provide global heal for gank fest and skirmish battle as well as provide stompers which pretty much (%!@&) up the enemy game flow. 6 second worth of AoE stun is nothing to laugh about even end game! She also use her early game advantage to widen the gap between your team is theirs so she is tougher than suggested if she manages to suppress you.

Rampage is my vote. Hell even scout can eye recon/silence and nighthound can smoke bomb. Rampage is a melee ganker that relies on early physical damage which is not a good thing. His ult basically does poor damage and can easily be substituted for Pandamonium's flick. Yes a normal ability substituting his ULT.

Sauron`
12-15-2009, 05:17 AM
Devourer is probably the worst, but rampage and slither can be pretty useless to, at least rampage scales into late game whereas slither just drops off

hyppen
12-15-2009, 08:27 AM
We dont talk pub but competetive gaming I hope? In comepetetive gaming I think Night Hound, Magebane, Chronos. Their just too easy to kill, and have no good disable. NH's cloud and Chrono's ulti can be good though, but in the end there is better carry agi. heroes to pick like Valkyrie, Sand Wraith, Mad Man, Soulstealer. Most int. heroes can be picked sometimes, but Voodoo is pretty much the worst int. hero. And last I agree with devourer being very bad. Most good teams will know how to avoid hooks and disable him in general which will render him pretty useless the mid/late game.

Doubles
12-15-2009, 08:48 AM
I like devourer. With a coordinated team that communicates he can be really effective. I enjoy snatching an enemy hero out of their group and watching them get beat down in like 2 secs by my team. He isn't awesome or OP but he is decent.

His hook can be used for ganking and saving teamates (most people never do this) his ult does a decent amount of dmg and is a pretty good disable with a low CD. His passive is pretty good as well.

Sure there's better heroes but that doesn't make him the worst. He def isn't the most boring hero to play either. I find him really fun when you get your hook timing down.

My vote for one of the worst heroes goes to warbeast. All you can do is farm for the first 3/4 of the game and then you get pretty buff. But there's other people that can do it better and bring something to the fight other than autoattacking. IE chronos with his ult and his paasive stun etc

Pride82
12-15-2009, 08:49 AM
I would say worst hero is slither. He is rather useless in a team fight and since you have no real disables, you are not taking anyone out of the game and he turns weak as game progresses.

Devourer can be very good with the through trees/out of los hook and disable & slow. Anyone claiming they actually know how to dodge hook is just bullshitting you. Your hero simply does not have TIME to move under it if you hook it through trees. Problem is, it has plenty to do with luck as well, since you can only HOPE your target stays still / keeps moving to the direction you expect him to.

Biggest issue with the hook is that any class with blink can escape your ulti even when you hit your hook. They just blink/leap/charge away before your ulti hits them. You will not get ulti CD, but there is still the cast time on it, although it is 0.2-0.5s.

Chronos can be very powerful with the blink & slow and the proc. Proper ulti can be hit in a manner where even melee guys can hit the targets you stop.

jay`t
12-15-2009, 10:19 AM
blacksmith is an amazing hero ! very far from being a bad hero


he's really not a bad hero. people just don't like random factor, but honestly, he has a nasty stun on a short CD, can farm just fine with a good animation (and melee, so he can use hatchet/shield), and his frenzy buff is good too.

ever since they changed his stun multicast to stun them for longer, he's been very decent

shibbidydoo
12-15-2009, 11:39 AM
We dont talk pub but competetive gaming I hope? In comepetetive gaming I think Night Hound, Magebane, Chronos. Their just too easy to kill, and have no good disable. NH's cloud and Chrono's ulti can be good though, but in the end there is better carry agi. heroes to pick like Valkyrie, Sand Wraith, Mad Man, Soulstealer. Most int. heroes can be picked sometimes, but Voodoo is pretty much the worst int. hero. And last I agree with devourer being very bad. Most good teams will know how to avoid hooks and disable him in general which will render him pretty useless the mid/late game.

I agree with most of these low tier characters, cept a couple.

Soulstealer isnt as great post ult change, still wonderful though.

NH's Cloud is a freaking menace in teamfights. One of the best tbh. While you can counter his stealth, theres no doubt hes an ass to fight with the freaking pounce cloud.

...Voodoo worst int? Really? His cursed ground is probably one of the most feared attacks with any decent stunner. With someone like pebbles, electrician, or polly, its GG.

Puffball
12-15-2009, 12:02 PM
Wow, all these people saying devourer. I've won games with hook and MMM YUMMY! Also, having a hook come out of the trees and grab you to where you are pummeled by 3 other players is both terrifying and hilarious.

Now Armadon, there is a useless hero. Other than his weak slow, he doesn't bring anything useful to a team.

SalsaSauce
12-15-2009, 12:20 PM
All people who write that Ophelia / Armadon / Blacksmith / Dark Lady (LOL) / KoTF are useless and worst heroes in the game, sucks really, REALLY hard.

Period.

SilentMoon
12-15-2009, 12:38 PM
im gonna have to say in pubs its armadon(relies to much on the ability to get farmed)
and in competitive play id say scout is pretty bad although if well farmed he is a pain and i say hes bad cause id rather have someone who could stun than a little extra damage(madman,valk,andromeda,etc...).

12-15-2009, 01:03 PM
Devourer can only work if your opponents are playing iFarm or standing around like dumbasses. If you hook someone, it better be the right one, or it's someome like legio interrupting your ulti and the rest of the team demolishing your ass.

As for Rampage, he actually has initiation, his stampede is not meh in mid to late game. His stampede when initiated far away enough is even magic immune which means people will have to wait for it to end before interrupting it. And for as far as I know and as far as the gamerules imply, the debuff is only given when you're about to hit the opponent with it. Next to that, most tanks force others to attack him by spell. Rampage does this by the sheer fact they will just lose one teammember if they don't deal with him. In early game however, Rampage lacks any form of movement/stampeding capabilities because there's towers around, so till like l10 he can't do much other than last hitting and hit people that move into his range(trying to attack his babysitter for example). So he's definitely not that bad. I think the biggest issue with him is that he becomes effective during midgame phase, while Devourer for example can be effective in early game phase.

RagingRetard
12-15-2009, 01:12 PM
Rampage. Unless permastunning noobs 1v1 is considered not being awful.

est
12-15-2009, 03:13 PM
i have come to the conclusion that devourer is close to useless. The 900 range on his hook is way too short to be of any real use. Without his hook, all of his other skills become useless. Maybe if they made his hook range like 1500 he would become a much bigger threat.

Helgeran1
12-15-2009, 03:34 PM
I see many pro players writing their opinions here.
I cannot imagine why people say that : Hag, Armadon, Ophelia are bad heroes.
Hag is awesome, Armadon is goddamn beastly and he can chase anyone running away, Ophelia needs some micro and map control but she's pretty strong if it comes to gankking with her pokemons.

IMO one of the most useless heroes recently if it comes to competetive games is GLACIUS. Anything except his aura and ice imprisonment is goddamn useless and his low HP makes him rly, rly easy target.
Being named SalsaSauce is like being named CD-disc.

sHoWTiMe
12-15-2009, 03:41 PM
Nighthound is definately the most shitty hero i've ever seen. His ultimate is invisibility. Nuff said.

hyppen
12-15-2009, 05:09 PM
I agree with most of these low tier characters, cept a couple.

Soulstealer isnt as great post ult change, still wonderful though.

NH's Cloud is a freaking menace in teamfights. One of the best tbh. While you can counter his stealth, theres no doubt hes an ass to fight with the freaking pounce cloud.

...Voodoo worst int? Really? His cursed ground is probably one of the most feared attacks with any decent stunner. With someone like pebbles, electrician, or polly, its GG.

Cursed ground sucks hard because of the range - 165. On stun right before he gets close and its fails. And not to mention the radius. If your lucky you will hit two. His stun and ulti is decent to good, but again - most of the int. heroes is better than him. Pretty much every int. hero in hon is good, so its a tough competetion and imo Voodoo loses.

fatrend1
12-15-2009, 05:16 PM
Gonna have to go out on a limb and say Zephyr is the worst.

Tinithor
12-15-2009, 05:23 PM
I'd have to say that a warbeast is probably the MOST useless hero you could have on your team.

fatrend1
12-15-2009, 05:29 PM
I'd have to say that a warbeast is probably the MOST useless hero you could have on your team.

Uh, no. Constant DPS aura, On use +damage skill, hounds for creep pulling and scouting. VERY HIGH DPS WITH ULTI. Frees up a lane slot for 2 solos.

Once warbeast farms his core of Abyssal Skull, Boots of choice, SHRUNKEN HEAD and some other dps items later on like shieldbreaker he becomes an unstoppable wrecking ball of GG. Great for pushing towers as a team with his +damage ability and totally annihilates squishy heroes.

Player26
12-15-2009, 05:32 PM
I cant believe its a discussion about this. There should be consesus about that Rampage is the worst hero in the game.

Firion
12-15-2009, 05:35 PM
pudge is worst if you honestly have a shitty player playing him. Otherwise, hang back and tower hug till 6-7 then hook/eat/tower while the squishy ranged get raped. after 1st kill its all downhill from there.
Easiest initiator--no need to buy a short blink for 2150.
One of the best tanks WITH a no-mana cost dps
Disable/damage
Scaling str gain.

who can argue?
Now, in my opinion, a worse hero to play would have to be rampage(non-em) or even slither, unless the slither can harass and get farmed before 20 mins.

Extreme_Cake
12-15-2009, 05:35 PM
None of these heroes is as useless as Zephyr. He does nothing against a competent team.

Credge
12-15-2009, 07:14 PM
Any hero whom is entirely countered with one or two items. Keeper is one of them, despite being pretty decent. Ophelia is another. Both wards and Alchemists Bones counter her. Any hero with invisibility is fairly useless, sans Valkyrie.

Mainly, I'd say Ophelia is the worst at the moment. Only her early game is good, but she has some fairly easy counters. Her role as an early game ganker is done much better and much more easily with other characters with fewer counters.

Dataslycer
12-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Credge I have to disagree.

Keeper of the Forest, the key to placing Tree Sight is in the area of trees that is inside hidden from LOS that only a flying courier can see it. Wards of Revelation is a counter to any invisibility but if Keeper emerges from an area not within LOS or use a portal key, then it is null.

Ophelia is far from useless. If you try to use wards on her neutral spot, she will get wards to destroy them. In high level competition, ward wars are sometimes waged even before the battle starts! And I don't see what is terrible about a 2-6 second AoE stun, damage amplification outside of armor, and global healing. Plague Rider criees when Ophelia is in the enemy team since his bounces sometimes get absorbed by her creeps and she basically undoes the damage with a single touch of the R key. Unless you successfully blocked her neutral spawns, she can get another one, albeit it may not be a minotaur.

Okuu
12-15-2009, 07:56 PM
I'd say none... or almost none. After 20 minutes, Slither is, imo, the worse hero of the game, but hell he's strong early game, he can ruin a laning phase by himself making you back and back to Shrine.
Armadon is FAR from being the worse hero, hell he's one of the best tanks and he have a incredible slow. Hag as well, far from being the worse, I never played her but I seen players handling her incredibly, she already carrier a game against me.
Pudge..... He can be the best hero like he can be the worse, depending who play him, like Ophelia and a lot of others.
A competent Pestilence carrying a Gem makes a NH completly useless, but otherwise, NH is one of the best hero.

shibbidydoo
12-15-2009, 09:01 PM
Nighthound is definately the most shitty hero i've ever seen. His ultimate is invisibility. Nuff said.

Most consider smoke bomb to be his true "ultimate" ability. It is good. Really good.

shibbidydoo
12-15-2009, 09:07 PM
Cursed ground sucks hard because of the range - 165. On stun right before he gets close and its fails. And not to mention the radius. If your lucky you will hit two. His stun and ulti is decent to good, but again - most of the int. heroes is better than him. Pretty much every int. hero in hon is good, so its a tough competetion and imo Voodoo loses.

1v1, yes. Thats why i said he works well with a stunner. Cursed grounds radius is small, and its sucky as hell to land. But the pure damage output is insane even with 1 second of time, and when paired with the correct team mates makes voodoo one of the scarriest SoB's in game. Im talking about people like electrician, polly, pebbles, forsaken, keeper, or best of all tempest. Voodoo is a team player and possible ganker and should be played as such. He is far from worst.

Addfwyn
12-15-2009, 09:46 PM
Devourer is by no means the worst hero, he is however one of the hardest heros in the game to play, this makes people think he is bad. He is probably not as good as he should be (Given the level of skill required to play him, he should probably be more powerful in exchange, I give that). Excellent at killing invis heros without any type of detection, can make every team-fight a 5v4 if he knows what he is doing. If he does his job in the mid-game of ganking a lot, he becomes a very powerful tank in late game as well. Plus he just has a very solid disable for an ult.

Watch Captain Hook's Pudge videos sometimes if you want to see a disgustingly good Pudge player just dominating games.

I'd have to say Arachna is pretty terrible if it isn't a pub-game. One of the worst ults ever for actual team-battles (goes down in a heartbeat). She does have good early laning presence though if they don't know what a homecoming stone is.

For pub matches, probably Ophelia or Wildsoul. I've never really seen a pub player that knows what micro is in dota/hon, so they just tend to get tangled over themselves and feed a lot (assuming they even level Control as Ophelia).

Demliz333
12-15-2009, 09:56 PM
there is no bad hero, there is only bad players. :)

Ascen
12-15-2009, 10:57 PM
Credge I have to disagree.

Ophelia is far from useless. If you try to use wards on her neutral spot, she will get wards to destroy them. In high level competition, ward wars are sometimes waged even before the battle starts! And I don't see what is terrible about a 2-6 second AoE stun, damage amplification outside of armor, and global healing. Plague Rider criees when Ophelia is in the enemy team since his bounces sometimes get absorbed by her creeps and she basically undoes the damage with a single touch of the R key. Unless you successfully blocked her neutral spawns, she can get another one, albeit it may not be a minotaur.

You forget that Ophelia is the easiest hero to counter, whole team buying alchemist bones makes her walking ATM. But for public games ophelia is usually really great if played correctly. And uhm the worst hero? Id go with Slither, Scout or maybe Blacksmith.

EGNesTea420
12-15-2009, 11:07 PM
You forget that Ophelia is the easiest hero to counter, whole team buying alchemist bones makes her walking ATM. But for public games ophelia is usually really great if played correctly. And uhm the worst hero? Id go with Slither, Scout or maybe Blacksmith.

Yeah because making an entire enemy team spend a collective total of almost 10,000g just to counter one hero is going to be "useless".

Actually I've seen Ophelia used in competitive matches before, and did good too. It is not a useless hero.

shibbidydoo
12-16-2009, 01:47 AM
You forget that Ophelia is the easiest hero to counter, whole team buying alchemist bones makes her walking ATM. But for public games ophelia is usually really great if played correctly. And uhm the worst hero? Id go with Slither, Scout or maybe Blacksmith.

Blacksmith is really only bad for the un;ucky. As late game, his frenzy can turn the tide of battle with a good carry, and a lucky fireball could result in a ~3 second stun on a 5 second cooldown. Hes a mediocre melee (uhh, int), but as support, hes not bad at all.

monstarr1
12-16-2009, 02:07 AM
umm dark lady is like the best carry in the game, brings so much more presence to teams fights and also farms better than just about every carry aside from wildsoul.

ROMAA
12-16-2009, 02:48 AM
so many people bashing good heroes it's sad.. :(:(

`jusatin`
12-16-2009, 03:03 AM
Wretched Hag, I feel so weak and completely useless when I (random) pick her

Seems like you just cant play him, with 1 good ulti from wretched hag, you can easily get genocide and even win the game while every1 is dead :)

I would say blacksmith isn't that good, sure its fun to play, but you just cant rely on pure luck :D

Dataslycer
12-16-2009, 03:09 AM
You forget that Ophelia is the easiest hero to counter, whole team buying alchemist bones makes her walking ATM. But for public games ophelia is usually really great if played correctly. And uhm the worst hero? Id go with Slither, Scout or maybe Blacksmith.

Are you going to have most of the team get it to counter Ophelia who is an early gamer know those creeps will taper off later game?

Blacksmith is far from being useless as a spammable fireball with a CD of 5 second is not sucky even if he doesn't proc a multi-cast. He also lanes pretty damn well too with another stunner.

Zenanii
12-16-2009, 03:10 AM
Id say rampage. All his skills are focused on 1v1 making him lacking in teamfights (and he's not even that great 1v1, alot of other heroes could easily solo him.
He have no real escape mechanism, making it easy to gank him.
He's supposed to be a ganker mid game but there is so many heroes that does that way better then him (without giving the opponent a big warning sign 3 sec before they strike).
Being a melee with no harrasment skill make him vulnerable to harras during laning phase.
As a semi-carry there are just so many other heroes that outshines him and does what he does, better (panda for instance)

Zonack
12-16-2009, 03:12 AM
******* double post :(

Zonack
12-16-2009, 03:13 AM
Blacksmith. Sure hes fun to play and what not but in a serious game you can't reply on complete luck

Yeah who needs Warpcleft-like buff every 5 secs anyways.....

Decency
12-16-2009, 03:38 AM
Electrician and Zephyr are probably tied for most completely useless heroes.

shibbidydoo
12-16-2009, 03:53 AM
umm dark lady is like the best carry in the game, brings so much more presence to teams fights and also farms better than just about every carry aside from wildsoul.

As far as carry power is involved, i think madman triumphs DL. She is number two now in my book post SW nerf.

V_Bear
12-16-2009, 04:42 AM
Devourer is only bad if you cant farm up kills....which happens to go for alot of toons. If left alone he's tank. In one game i got him to 6k health....OP?? but yes if targeted early he is useless and the amount of ppl that suck at landing the hook...

The worst hero is as ppl have said dependent on the person...I cant play Ophelia. But smash non-pub games with Rampage and Armadon....

Skull4er
12-16-2009, 05:24 AM
you can't say there is a worst hero, it depends to much on situation/lineup/skill of the player.

you can only say that in most situations a specific hero is useless.
And if it comes to those situations i would say rampage. he has nothing for a teambattle besides singletarget damage. devourer can take at least one target down, tank a shitload of dmg, builds in nearly every situation an barrier idol (rampage can also do that, but honestly, who ever has done something like that?), and got a nice disable on a small cooldown. His biggest weakness is his lacking of farming early on in my opinion.
besides: ophelia is overpowered, the problem is just that the game engine sucks if you have to controle more units then your hero X_x

acojan
12-16-2009, 06:26 AM
I think armadon is pretty crap.... he has sh*t str gain for a strength hero.
the damage reduction is good but not that effective. spines become useless after lvl 13-ish. Ulti is decent when compared to what other heroes get...

snot is great for the slowing and debuffs but... slow < stun always ... that's pretty much it... oh and mana battery rapes him. I honestly love armadon to death and use him a lot. I need to give so much effort to do decent with him compared to other str/tanks/support dps

Juztice314
12-16-2009, 06:31 AM
Pebbles. I honestly hate this hero.

Also had problems with Rampage although I did considerable good with devourer, although I haven't played much.

MaxCheese
12-16-2009, 08:19 AM
I lfind it funny how a large amount of people are saying Slither is useless because he doesn't scale well late game because i have the feeling that these people are probably also thinking that just because a hero is an agility hero then it must be a carry. There are quite a few heroes that don't scale well late game because they are meant to be dominant early game. Slither is not a carry and should not be played like one.


Slither is an early-mid game hero and meant to be an early-mid game hero. Slither is either ganker/roamer or pusher/laner. He's also the only hero who can effectively gank and roam at Level 1, there is no other hero more effective at this role at Level 1. You either constantly roam and gank or you put heavy lane pressure and take a tower down early with toxin wards.

Nobody says Glacius is a bad hero just because he scales bad late game.

Juztice314
12-16-2009, 08:29 AM
I lfind it funny how a large amount of people are saying Slither is useless because he doesn't scale well late game because i have the feeling that these people are probably also thinking that just because a hero is an agility hero then it must be a carry. There are quite a few heroes that don't scale well late game because they are meant to be dominant early game. Slither is not a carry and should not be played like one.


Slither is an early-mid game hero and meant to be an early-mid game hero. Slither is either ganker/roamer or pusher/laner. He's also the only hero who can effectively gank and roam at Level 1, there is no other hero more effective at this role at Level 1. You either constantly roam and gank or you put heavy lane pressure and take a tower down early with toxin wards.

Nobody says Glacius is a bad hero just because he scales bad late game.

Glacius is a bad hero.

qtrng
12-16-2009, 08:30 AM
Glacius is a bad hero.

Not really

Myzzrym
12-16-2009, 08:31 AM
Well, there's this one thing with Devourer that bothers me. I used to play Pudge a shitload of times in DotA (and in CW too, don't ask, we had weird strats that - of course - didn't always work) and he was definitivly not a bad hero.

Now when I play Devourer, I do find him somewhat weak. I feel like I cannot kill my ennemies fast enough compared to when I played Pudge. Is it that heroes have a bit more HP in HoN? Or is it just me?

Anyway. At the moment I have yet to see a viable Armadon, and I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to buff him a bit.

MaxCheese
12-16-2009, 08:35 AM
Glacius is a bad hero.

Y u do dis? :(

Forfeit
12-16-2009, 09:31 AM
Ophelia and Rampage.

Ophelia is probably the worst.
Any good player can easily counter Ophelia's jungling and an ophelia without jungling is close to useless.
You've obiously never played with/against a good Ophelia.

deweylewie
12-16-2009, 10:16 AM
Slither: Early game is good but still not fantastic, ult is bunk, wards would be more useful if they DIDN'T attack and just had stealth in mid-late game.

Armadon, wildsoul, warbeast, all need to farm loads and have no high damage nukes, no stuns. By the time they are farmed up they are already overtaken by AGI carries.

qtrng
12-16-2009, 10:23 AM
Slither: Early game is good but still not fantastic, ult is bunk, wards would be more useful if they DIDN'T attack and just had stealth in mid-late game.

Armadon, wildsoul, warbeast, all need to farm loads and have no high damage nukes, no stuns. By the time they are farmed up they are already overtaken by AGI carries.

Wildsoul with mock at 20m or war beast with abyssal and shieldbreaker at 20m is no joke. Armadon doesn't need to farm loads. I suspect you haven't seen a decent Armadon.

d0ss
12-16-2009, 10:47 AM
Wildsoul with mock at 20m or war beast with abyssal and shieldbreaker at 20m is no joke. Armadon doesn't need to farm loads. I suspect you haven't seen a decent Armadon.

The way you're talking about armadon, i suspect you havn't seen a power supply, ever.

Armadon is a terrible hero, he is countered by 210 gold. Anyone in a lane vs armadon will win. Armadon is one of the worst laning heroes, just supplies free mana and hp to the other team, or just can't cast a single spell and lets everything get last hit.

Sure, lategame armadon has the abillity to succeed, but early game he's very very bad (HE ACTUALLY HELPS THE OTHER TEAM SOMETIMES).

qtrng
12-16-2009, 11:14 AM
The way you're talking about armadon, i suspect you havn't seen a power supply, ever.

Armadon is a terrible hero, he is countered by 210 gold. Anyone in a lane vs armadon will win. Armadon is one of the worst laning heroes, just supplies free mana and hp to the other team, or just can't cast a single spell and lets everything get last hit.

Sure, lategame armadon has the abillity to succeed, but early game he's very very bad (HE ACTUALLY HELPS THE OTHER TEAM SOMETIMES).

Do you mean to say that spine burst always does less than 15 damage, and double slow lanes are very weak? I did not know this.

I build power supply on almost every hero =/

sangan
12-16-2009, 11:27 AM
Pubs: BlackSmith, Slither, Ophelia
Competitive: Scout, Nighthound, Rampage (and many more)

dude how can you say blacksmith is the worst hero in pubs? he pretty easy pubstomp

dreamex
12-16-2009, 11:51 AM
The way you're talking about armadon, i suspect you havn't seen a power supply, ever.

Armadon is a terrible hero, he is countered by 210 gold. Anyone in a lane vs armadon will win. Armadon is one of the worst laning heroes, just supplies free mana and hp to the other team, or just can't cast a single spell and lets everything get last hit.

Sure, lategame armadon has the abillity to succeed, but early game he's very very bad (HE ACTUALLY HELPS THE OTHER TEAM SOMETIMES).

Only if you're bad.

Forfeit
12-16-2009, 12:31 PM
Armadon, wildsoul, warbeast, all need to farm loads and have no high damage nukes, no stuns. By the time they are farmed up they are already overtaken by AGI carries.
Warbeast is not as good of a carry on paper as most agi carries, true. But what you overlook is that he farms much better. His job is to outfarm other carries. So when you have an Abyssal Skull, Steamboots, Shieldbreaker, and Token of Life in 20-25 minutes, while the other team's carries have Steamboots and a Whispering Helm, you're a force.

GStruwe
12-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Well, I would also add that if you put a brutalizer on a warbeast, you're pretty much going to tear anyone up pretty quickly, assuming you're not careless.

Dataslycer
12-16-2009, 01:26 PM
Well, I would also add that if you put a brutalizer on a warbeast, you're pretty much going to tear anyone up pretty quickly, assuming you're not careless.

Brutilizer and tearing enemies up pretty quick doesn't go together.

Forfeit
12-16-2009, 01:36 PM
I'd only build Brutalizers in 1v1.

GStruwe
12-16-2009, 01:59 PM
Brutilizer and tearing enemies up pretty quick doesn't go together.

I guess it depends on who you ask. Quickly meaning you don't have to chase, in my sense.

Quoting a certain gentleman from the movie "Boondock Saints".
"Where are you going? You're going noooowhere~"

EDIT: But then again, I'm a guy with 17 disconnects and a whole lot more deaths than kills. Which probably tells alot about how much I actually know the game.

RobertLoggi1
12-16-2009, 02:25 PM
ever since they changed his stun multicast to stun them for longer, he's been very decent

This is wrong...

http://honwiki.net/wiki/Blacksmith

Mizarus
12-16-2009, 03:11 PM
pollywag priest, too fragile, 2 stuns from most nukers/disablers and you are under 100hp or dead

sieneh
12-16-2009, 06:37 PM
pollywag priest, too fragile, 2 stuns from most nukers/disablers and you are under 100hp or dead

Polly is awesome.

I have no idea what are you on about.

He has 2 long ass disables, his ulti is an awesome pushing skill and his chain lightning is a pretty good farming skill, his attack animation is one of the best, though his projectile speed and damage aren't that hot, mediocre at best.

His downsides are:

a) Pathetic movement speed
b) Shitty hp

If you aren't doing something to counter his 2 "only" weaknesses, you're playing him wrong.

BIGWANG
12-16-2009, 06:41 PM
LOL at the retards who said hag. She has an awesome blink and slow, as well as 2 strong aoe nukes, one of which can be used to farm quickly.

Gipp
12-16-2009, 07:19 PM
armadon level 3-> full mana-> level 2 quill->spam->enemies run to their tower before they die

rayanman
12-16-2009, 08:02 PM
Iv built pollywogs that have had more health throughout the game than most of the tanks, mainly go with a sacstone- som build with steam boots and mayb an early talisman or power supply.

crappular
12-16-2009, 08:33 PM
God I read Ophelia and Slither in this thread and it's making me very depressed.

alliednoob
12-16-2009, 09:17 PM
Slither fails, he's useless at endgame.
OPHELIA (if she's well played) WILL F***ING PWN YOU ALL!

JohnnySmash
12-17-2009, 12:02 AM
I really hate rampage, compare to Pestilence, pesti can also run up at 522 movespeed only he does an aoe stun, he has a chance on attack to stun instead of knockback, and he doesn't need the bonus damage because his ulti turns any target into paper. He doesn't need the teleport ult b/c his 522 movespeed will last the whole fight *and* his stun will actually come off cooldown very quickly. Also Pesti is 18x better against invis than Rampage.

Rampage just looks pathetic compared to pesti, IMO.

sneakysob
12-17-2009, 12:12 AM
War beast is excellent since his ulti got buffed =/

20m shieldbreaker+boots+abyssal then kill kids for 14 seconds out of every 40.


I lol'd

Mizaru1
12-17-2009, 12:49 AM
pollywag priest, too fragile, 2 stuns from most nukers/disablers and you are under 100hp or dead


WTH u have the same name as me, just with the additional "s"

Polly rocks man. Saw a pro get him to 10-0 in just a short while. If u can time the hex then ulti, u dnt need cyclone wand to ward trap a person. Hex, time it, ulti, when he resumes form, he will be trapped.

I seriously think its zephyr that needs some tweaking. Jungles too much to be effective, and when he gets his items, he might still lose to certain carries if they have equal farm.

Bli
12-17-2009, 01:35 AM
slither is trash. he's not particularly good at anything. wards dont do anythign after the first few minutes, he's not great dps, people just deny their teammates. overall, pretty terrible.

GGreenBass
12-17-2009, 05:14 PM
Anyone who says Rampage is a terrible hero obviously isn't properly factoring in his movement speed, base damage, amazing ability to gank early game, 3 stuns, and most importantly: THE ABILITY TO REMOVE HIMSELF FROM STUNS.

(A.K.A. the ultimate Tempest counter. Port out of stun, hit tempest. Save your team.)

Gipp
12-17-2009, 05:25 PM
rampage is a good pubstomp
but is garbage vs a decent team.

his ganking ability is countered by not being alone.

once he blows charge/ultimate. he is nothing but a mediocre auto attack hero hoping for RNG to kick in

Acinod
12-17-2009, 05:27 PM
Anyone who says Rampage is a terrible hero obviously isn't properly factoring in his movement speed, base damage, amazing ability to gank early game, 3 stuns, and most importantly: THE ABILITY TO REMOVE HIMSELF FROM STUNS.

(A.K.A. the ultimate Tempest counter. Port out of stun, hit tempest. Save your team.)

Movespeed is great but for a melee hero, it is bad. Sure you can run away but you can't do any damage unless you are right next to the enemy, which in that case you will die. Corrupted Disciple has good movespeed but is better due to all his skills being range unlike Rampage. Sure he's base damage is high, so great for last hitting, but again is melee and needs to be right up close. He is a ganker but is not amazing. All his hits are single target and against requires him to be right up close to the enemy. People can see him coming ages away.

FINALLY HE IS NOT A TEMPEST COUNTER! You cannot do anything while in Tempest's Ulti and if you think you can use Ultimate out of stun then that doesn't work either because it doesn't stop you being ministunned.

All in all Rampage sucks. Actually any other single-target hero sucks because it is 5v5 and you are only destorying 1/5 of the team.

awayish`
12-17-2009, 05:51 PM
slither

F5
12-17-2009, 05:55 PM
Worst hero?
Moon queen.

Reapey
12-17-2009, 07:13 PM
I love devourer, just got 7-1 in the laning phase. (him and pebbles is an epic combo, an the death was a deny <3).
Worst hero... hmm... none?
A hero is what the player makes him, there is no such thing as a 'best' or 'worse', some are just easier to play.
But if i was forced to choose, Scout.

ChikenMcTest
12-17-2009, 07:48 PM
Devourer is the worst hero. His only good skill is hook. After that every other skill is mediocre.

Chummer
12-17-2009, 11:23 PM
Armadon. No question. There is simply no hero worse. Blacksmith is close to him but not quite there. Zephyr is pretty close aswell


Armadon ? this it totally untrue he got a lot of Options and if played good theres not much you can do about him not to mention that theres an item made just for him... get that and unstoppable he is... Demonic brestplate is like giving him staff of the master to all his skills... id vote nerf if i dident love him so <3

blacksmith is not bad even if unlucky his slow and not to forget his frenzy is a support bonus out of this world i would agree on :zeph: ... but id rather save the vote for :scou:,:pyro:,:witc: since they are the hero choices that is most often are the reason of an underfed carry (even though its not the topic)

NoobishNoob
12-17-2009, 11:26 PM
I even pick Armadon over Devourer due to how slow his hook is in HoN, even with the ability to drag units when upon return, most players with half an IQ wouldn't even get close to the obvious red line.

Typhy
12-17-2009, 11:29 PM
Hmm. I don't think there is a "worst" hero. Every hero I read in this thread is good in my vision. Competitively, rampage is probably the worst however.

Armadon rapes face when I play with him. Awesome for tanking towers. Get a mock, and then the opponents will be scared of you, with your uber single target slow, and super AoE dps from mock + spines, plus, it's hard for people to chase you :P

Zephyr is a monster when farmed, can easily push, and initiate team fights by leaping. With full tornadoes, a mock, your evasion skill and a HotBL/Behemoths heart, you are damn hard to kill, and a vorce to be reckoned with. He could be buffed though, because its annoying to have to farm tornadoes to be greatly useful.

Blacksmith is fun and dangerous, because when you get lucky, you can destroy people easily. 4x multicast on fireball + flaming hammer slow + super frenzy on teammates = some awesome killing power.

Devourer is in need for a small buff, but nothing to big. It's supposed to be a hard hero, and a POWERFUL one at that when you know how to aim. Maybe a buffed ulti, for a little bit of scaling (Like 25% of strength is added to the damage of the ulti, and becomes 100% with SotM). Other then that, you just practice his hook. I had a friend who hooked me out of so many dangerous situations (as well as my teammates) and I couldn't of thanked him enough :P. One time, he hooked me out the second I got stunned and almost got ganked by tempest/madman.

All in all, there is no best or worst hero. It's how you play the hero that defines how well it does.

OrangeJuice
12-18-2009, 12:49 AM
Devourer(Pudge) USE to be picked in DotA because of his outstanding ganking abilities and his disable. Now with TDL and Scout and others who silence he cant really do anything without his spells.

OrangeJuice
12-18-2009, 12:53 AM
Movespeed is great but for a melee hero, it is bad. Sure you can run away but you can't do any damage unless you are right next to the enemy, which in that case you will die. Corrupted Disciple has good movespeed but is better due to all his skills being range unlike Rampage. Sure he's base damage is high, so great for last hitting, but again is melee and needs to be right up close. He is a ganker but is not amazing. All his hits are single target and against requires him to be right up close to the enemy. People can see him coming ages away.

FINALLY HE IS NOT A TEMPEST COUNTER! You cannot do anything while in Tempest's Ulti and if you think you can use Ultimate out of stun then that doesn't work either because it doesn't stop you being ministunned.

All in all Rampage sucks. Actually any other single-target hero sucks because it is 5v5 and you are only destorying 1/5 of the team.
Ive killed Corrupted Disciple:corr: many times with Rampage:ramp:. Rampage is a very good hero if you are good at being him. If you get strong enough i say Rampage coudl beat CD any time.

Acinod
12-18-2009, 01:29 AM
Ive killed Corrupted Disciple:corr: many times with Rampage:ramp:. Rampage is a very good hero if you are good at being him. If you get strong enough i say Rampage coudl beat CD any time.

I never said Corrupted Disciple can beat Rampage in a 1v1. It's that Corrupted Disciple has better benefits in a 5v5 than Rampage. Scout can beat Thunderbringer if you are good at being him. But that doesn't mean he is better in a team fight which is what real HoN really is.

Vexew
12-18-2009, 05:23 AM
For those thinking Ophelia is the worst, should check my recent games.

http://gaww.net/hon_stats.php?hero_dossier=vexew

I would say, Rampage easily, maybe Zephyr, both are beyond horrible and i groan everytime their on my team.

CheshireCat
12-18-2009, 05:29 AM
Zephyr or Warbeast that goes wood the whole game and never assists, there is NOTHING worse.

Other than hat prob Wretched Hag

Clyne
12-18-2009, 05:39 AM
devourer isnt bad, how ever he is very situational and need to hook up a lot to be effective. Hook requires skill and prediction.

LegoPirate
12-18-2009, 05:41 AM
zephyr.

rampage isnt as bad as people say. he hits like a truck early on, and with a touch of good farming/ganking can be a good carry.

Flormelis
12-18-2009, 06:07 AM
I don't get why people say :dark: is on their **** list. The carry potential in that hero is completely ******* insane. With a runed axe, she already has the biggest AoE nuke in the game. Coped with crit, and two-three targets to hit, I have seen bursts on 2000+ damage to all three targets. She has the wickedest Agility gain in the game, and I don't see how you would make Madman counter her.

Silence that goes through his Shrunken Head, faster regular attack speed, about the same with charge / Madman ulti, slightly favoring Madman. However, he'd have to actually get it used before you hit him, or he'll be sileneced to death. Higher base damage, furtherly increased by Dark Blades. You can dance between silenceing, Shrunken Head, and a new silencing blades, effectively not being stunned by anything but his Brutalizer.

Dark Lady is pure awesome.

Fishes1
12-18-2009, 06:31 AM
Ophelia and Rampage.

Ophelia is probably the worst.
Any good player can easily counter Ophelia's jungling and an ophelia without jungling is close to useless.

Ophelia is not a bad hero. She can have up to 3 stuns, a 500+ damage nuke and a global heal, not to mention items. If you're jungling the person from mid and the solo lanes can help if they try to gank. This happened to me yesterday, and i got a double kill. She's far from useless. Just her ult can turn teamfights around.

etspaceman
12-18-2009, 08:54 AM
Ophelia is amazing in the right hands, as is Zephyr.

Dark Lady is one of the best carries in the game, by far.

Night Hound has to be amongst the worst... and Torturer (after the Sac Stone nerf)

Gipp
12-18-2009, 10:49 AM
ophelia can start ganking at level 1.
she is probably the strongest level 1 ganker

LionKingMax
12-18-2009, 10:50 AM
dude how can you say blacksmith is the worst hero in pubs? he pretty easy pubstomp

Any character using pure luck to fight is retarded.

Chummer
12-18-2009, 10:58 AM
Any character using pure luck to fight is retarded.

obvious you dident like to play the gambler in dote ^^ pure fun anyway you are talking like he only got one skill he got mass slow and mass haste he maby only suport endgame but midgame he stomp hard
:ramp: is just a one trick pony ... Gank .... and even that Bs does better

dreamex
12-18-2009, 11:33 AM
Any character using pure luck to fight is retarded.

I don't think a stun every 6 seconds is 'pure' luck

Neither is rune control and map control.

It may be luck when Blacksmith actually lands a kill for himself but as a support and ganker he is amazing.

12-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Blacksmith, he's trash. Melee Int (lol the strength of most int is they are good in a lane), his stun does low damage early game and has a long cooldown, and he has a tiny mana pool. Nukers are SUPPOSED to be good at controlling lanes, he's the exception.

Armadon is also awful, he's a hero that tries to be good late game but fails at it.

dreamex
12-18-2009, 12:08 PM
Blacksmith, he's trash. Melee Int (lol the strength of most int is they are good in a lane), his stun does low damage early game and has a long cooldown, and he has a tiny mana pool. Nukers are SUPPOSED to be good at controlling lanes, he's the exception.

Armadon is also awful, he's a hero that tries to be good late game but fails at it.

Bad player right here.

Trippin
12-18-2009, 03:04 PM
Deadwood is pretty damn bad. In the right hands, he is ok, but most of the time I play against him... I just make him my *****. Glacius is also terrible in any REAL games.

Gipp
12-18-2009, 03:21 PM
blacksmith is a damn good last hitter making arcane ring a breeze.
once he gets that, its very easy to dominate a lane especially with rng.

i do admit though, rng is dumb :/

BlazingEagle
12-18-2009, 10:22 PM
Night Hound and Ophelia

Deathbeproud
12-19-2009, 02:50 AM
Deadwood is pretty damn bad. In the right hands, he is ok, but most of the time I play against him... I just make him my *****. Glacius is also terrible in any REAL games.

By real games you mean turtle carry rape fests? Glacius is amazing period. Aoe slow n damage ult. Free team mana for better early game. And a semi-stun. Just win early

JoshP
12-19-2009, 03:17 AM
Rampage, people say zephyr but if a zephyr rushes level 16 his ult is devastating, even if he is not.


Rampage has a hell of a lot of damage at level 7, but that is it. He never gets any stronger from his steroid, he ults someone in a fight and hits them a couple times..then hes useless.

Ever see a team with a zephyr and predator? Pop both their ults at once and then say zephyr is useless.

12-19-2009, 03:55 AM
I'd say that the worst overall is Slither. He's decent in like the first 15 minutes of the game, but since then his effectiveness quickly drops to zero.
this.

Ophelia is definitely underrated. I've seen her used twice in capable hands, and it was astonishing.

Extreme_Cake
12-19-2009, 05:33 AM
Ophelia is amazing in the right hands, as is Zephyr.

Zephyr can do NOTHING if you stop him jungling. Ward his creep pulls early on and it's basically GG for the poor guy. Even if he gets farmed, he ain't that great.

sYthex
12-19-2009, 09:01 AM
If zeph has helm, mock, and behe, he will not die with his shield on and a few cyclones. Impossible. he ends up with like 3500 health and is more tanky than a late game fed dev. Against no range he becomes iron man. his ult rapes when placed well. his leaps makes everything easier. Early game he just needs to farm a mock and then the rest is easy between cyclones and mock.

crayzwalz
12-19-2009, 09:07 AM
Devourer is the worst hero. His only good skill is hook. After that every other skill is mediocre.

lol your dum

sotm late game is amazing if you built up strength

ViciousJawa
12-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Deadwood is pretty damn bad. In the right hands, he is ok, but most of the time I play against him... I just make him my *****. Glacius is also terrible in any REAL games.

I had 5 games with him. Every single game I did really well with a nice K/D/A. No, not EM.
He is awesome in my book. Unfortunately, many people don't get the "feel" for how to utilize him.

yianniforMVP
12-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Blacksmith, he's trash. Melee Int (lol the strength of most int is they are good in a lane), his stun does low damage early game and has a long cooldown, and he has a tiny mana pool. Nukers are SUPPOSED to be good at controlling lanes, he's the exception.

Armadon is also awful, he's a hero that tries to be good late game but fails at it.


Earthshaker, Pebbles and Vengeful Spirit are by extension trash? Black is an incredibly strong roamer, is item independent (Bottle, magic stick boots and you're good to go) and has a very strong synergy with heroes that scale with attack speed ie every carry to an extent, and carries with a passive bash to a greater extent. He's similar to accursed in lane in that he's a strong babysitter, but only of ranged heroes ie MQ, valk, slither, puppet etc.

Armadon is perfectly viable as a last pick vs a non pesti team. Worst hero atm is probably magebane or zeph as neither contribute strongly to teamfights till 25 min + and even then magebane can be nuked down, and zeph is mediocre compared to an equivalently farmed madman/puppet who would have done a lot more for his team during mid stages of the game. Chronos without permabash is also a bit of a lol hero.

edit: @ the person calling glacius terrible; please uninstall hon, then jump of a bridge.

Haor
12-19-2009, 11:45 AM
Ur head man glacius terrible, he is powerful in early game but suck at late game cus hp, but since he got 1 stun, 2 slow, early game kills + support hero, not bad at all (sometimes i hate his ult cus easy disable it and random targat

PS by powerful = help ur teammate

Kietharr
12-19-2009, 12:19 PM
Glacius is a high tier hero. Crystal Maiden was a high tier hero and she was worse than Glacius, even after aura nerf the aura is amazing throughout the game, imprisonment is a fine disable and his slow is very solid. Ult is kinda crap until you get shrunken head but once you do it's devastating.

Okuu
12-19-2009, 06:04 PM
there is no bad hero, there is only bad players. :)
Amen

Darebear
12-19-2009, 06:53 PM
no bad hero? you're joking, right? surely you won't go so far as to say that ALL heroes are EQUAL.

ImmaYeti
12-19-2009, 10:17 PM
Blacksmith. Sure hes fun to play and what not but in a serious game you can't reply on complete luck

Blacksmith is one of the better heroes in the game... hes int but has more survivability than almost any other int and makes your whole team shine. Damn hard to kill and though it requires alittle luck he has a 1150 nuke on a 6 second cooldown. Hes about the only int hero that levels well into late game.

hackd
12-19-2009, 11:12 PM
dont know about worst? but....i really dont like scout

Ascen
12-21-2009, 10:00 AM
Yeah because making an entire enemy team spend a collective total of almost 10,000g just to counter one hero is going to be "useless".

Actually I've seen Ophelia used in competitive matches before, and did good too. It is not a useless hero.

You dont need whole team to spend for it, but with Ophelia roaming around it just gives so much more gold so the item is payed back pretty fast and while killing the creeps makes Ophelia pretty useless, also it does give attack speed. :)

Dreathan1
12-21-2009, 10:12 AM
There are no weak heroes, there are HARD heroes to play with:)

Aray
12-21-2009, 11:07 AM
Slither sucks.

LightRain
12-21-2009, 11:20 AM
rampage is bad
get over it

Rassen
12-21-2009, 11:21 AM
Slither can wreck a lot of havoc early to mid game if played properly. I'm suck with slither but i saw how ppl own with him many times in the past.

Jake
12-21-2009, 06:23 PM
Scout is the worst:
If you want support with wards, pick KoTF.
His ultimate take ages to land and its easy to evade. There are better gankers like Slither. Night hound can carry if you support him well. NH's aoe disable is better than Scouts... There is always a better hero than scout available. You can't even talk about his lane control because there is no such thing. Even Devourer with 0% hook accuracy is better than a scout.

Ascen
12-21-2009, 06:55 PM
Are you going to have most of the team get it to counter Ophelia who is an early gamer know those creeps will taper off later game?


You missed the point, Ophelia runs around with creeps, people with midas get free +300g from seeing her and making her useless, id say that's pretty good deal. Also makes her gangs useless and ganging her in woods easier.

Gipp
12-21-2009, 06:58 PM
nobody is getting an early midas in the lane ophelia constantly ganks from level 1 on.

Gredenko
12-21-2009, 06:59 PM
How in the world is Hag bad with all that aoe damage?

deViouS_tran
12-21-2009, 08:29 PM
Wretched Hag is a great gank support. I still don't understand why everyone hates on Hag, she's just under-utilized thats all.

Philipz
12-22-2009, 09:04 AM
Forsaken Archer

madman

scout

jera

= worse

lol

sladdetass
12-22-2009, 01:39 PM
Worst hero around goes to.....

Nymphora! She is decent early game and not that good mid and useless late. I can't see her in any line up at all if you compere her to other heroes.

YOYY_OO_YYOY
12-22-2009, 02:02 PM
None of the heroes are bad. It all depends on how you play it and how well you can maintain your consistency as being a good/better player.

Like someone posted before... "There are no bad heroes, there are only bad players."

Darkshine1
12-22-2009, 02:28 PM
None of the heroes are bad. It all depends on how you play it and how well you can maintain your consistency as being a good/better player.

Like someone posted before... "There are no bad heroes, there are only bad players."

I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Certain heroes are good and others are bad by virtue of their stats, abilities, and general utility. Being good at a bad hero does not make that hero good, that simply means you're skilled with that hero. It says nothing about the hero itself, only the player.

For instance, Tempest is a great hero. His ult essentially win teamfights by itself, he can solo push lanes with amazing speed, and he has good AoE damage. You can be terrible with him, but that doesn't make him a bad hero. It only means you have exceptionally poor skill with him. You can still lose with him even if you play well, but that would be because the opposing team is considerably more skilled collectively than your team

On the other hand, take Zephyr. Zephyr is THE WORST HERO IN THE GAME. He has to jungle the entire game to be effective, and even then, he's a weak hard carry. Certainly, he's hard to kill, but he can't exactly kill anyone. Furthermore, if he didn't kill a creep wave before engagment, he essentially can't deal any damage at all. He's a hard carry who can't hard carry. If you manage to dominate a game with him, that means you're either an amazing player or your opponents are absolutely terrible. Neither of these scenarios changes the fact that he is the worst hero in the game.

Skill's undeniably an extremely important component, but, in a tournament setting where everyone is of high skill and therefore relatively close in terms skill, you begin to discover which heroes are good and which are bad.

Crazy_Azy
12-22-2009, 03:46 PM
I wouldnt say Zephyr is bad at all! His ultimate does do a good job in teamfights since it gives +AS/MS to allys and -AS/MS to enemys. Either they run out and get hit whilst they do, or they fight in it and get overwhelmed by the superior AS.
And he has gotten an intense STR gain for an agi hero, giving him massive HP + Armor -> does a good tank.

Imo every hero has its strengh somewhere.
If it is Slither with doing ult + dot (oh my gawd, watch dem enemys HP fall) and letting your mates finish them off.
Or if its Ophelia doin a superior ganker earlygame cause of creeps, or simply assist with slow + 400 true dmg nuke

Bukem
12-22-2009, 03:57 PM
:arma:i use to think armadon was terrible, but he really isnt, its all about how you tank and situation.
he goes sooo well with demented shaman, or any healer
:D
armadon + nomes = ftw

12-22-2009, 04:06 PM
Devourer.

Blacksmith's only problem is that he isn't a mid hero and isn't a babysitter; this relegates him to your short lane, where he has to be with a ranged to avoid getting crushed. Still, there are plenty of powerful Blacksmith+Ranged lanes to be had - the only "problem" is that Blacksmith's spot on a team is usually better taken by someone with more early-game teamfight utility [Behemoth], Jeraziah if he isn't banned [and you have a ranged babysitter~~], etc. If these heroes aren't available he's a great pick in a draft.

I say early-game teamfight utility because Blacksmith is a wonder to have for Frenzy by the time he maxes it at 14, and can turn the tide of a carry war.

Irysa
12-22-2009, 04:08 PM
war beast

Boobies
12-22-2009, 04:08 PM
Ophelia and Rampage.

Ophelia is probably the worst.
Any good player can easily counter Ophelia's jungling and an ophelia without jungling is close to useless.

I figured out Ophelia does not need to jungle. Her slow and her true damage skill hurts like hell. I was in a 5v5 yesterday and I random repicked Ophelia. I had a team with minimal stunners and some slowers. I went 5-1 and just saved my ult for whenever I would get hit by something big. I think Ophelia is actually one of the most under rated heroes.

Yes, I do understand she is very easy to counter and if you just constantly get ganked you will suck. But you just can't go alone anywhere.

Strier
12-22-2009, 04:13 PM
Ophelia w/o jungle, scout w/o farm, blacksmith w/o luck.

shibbidydoo
12-22-2009, 04:26 PM
Forsaken Archer

madman

scout

jera

= worse

lol

Worst hero around goes to.....

Nymphora! She is decent early game and not that good mid and useless late. I can't see her in any line up at all if you compere her to other heroes.

Ok, time to nit pick.

Madman: BEST hard carry in the entire game, hands down. Sorry, only dark lady comes close.

Forsaken Archer: A 1800 dmg aoe ulti, the ability to take down towers at level 4, and one of the best pushers with skeletons and multishot. No, sorry, wrong again. Some are saying nerf her.

Scout: eh.

Jeraziah: The hell are you smoking? Hes one of the most banned people in games for a reason. Learn to play him well.

Nymphora: Again, what are you talking about? She dominates early game, and is INVALUABLE while pushing, providing heals and mana to the entire team. She can teleport up to 4/5 of the team to anywhere on the map (assuming you get a sotm) and she has a 1000 range aoe stun. Get a behe heart and astrolabe and she scales into late game with EVEN MORE mana and health drops. Again, Learn to play her well.

/end rant

Salem1
12-23-2009, 05:58 AM
Electrician ranks among one of the heroes with the least potential. He has a purge which is pretty good but nothing too good. This is because it is single target, doesn't damage and doesn't stun. Static grip is a good skill but he has little to combo it with because energy absorption is a pitiful excuse for AoE. Electric shield would've been a good ability if it had a damage reflect added onto it against melee heroes, but as it is, it most often just prolongs the inevitable a bit.

His skills are overall just weak, he can't deal much damage at all and has no AoE worth mentioning. He can of course kill things but his main contribution is the self-disabling Static Grip. This ability would be a lot more useful if it slowed Electrician but pulled the target towards him instead and the channeling was removed. Doing so would let Electrician attack the target meanwhile and let him do it from a relatively safe position.

Energy Absorption is pretty good for restoring mana, which he doesn't really have much use for other than for Energy Shield. Other than that, its damage is pitiful.

Electrician isn't useless but he's weak.

PistoIero
12-23-2009, 06:07 AM
I might be tempted to counterpick electrician IF the other team has soulstealer (so I can double up mid and absolutly ruin his early game) AND ether jereziah, madman or hammerstorm.

Leetard179
12-23-2009, 07:39 AM
new engineer

kyneS
12-23-2009, 09:52 AM
i would say silencer

dreamex
12-23-2009, 10:35 AM
Electrician ranks among one of the heroes with the least potential. He has a purge which is pretty good but nothing too good. This is because it is single target, doesn't damage and doesn't stun. Static grip is a good skill but he has little to combo it with because energy absorption is a pitiful excuse for AoE. Electric shield would've been a good ability if it had a damage reflect added onto it against melee heroes, but as it is, it most often just prolongs the inevitable a bit.

His skills are overall just weak, he can't deal much damage at all and has no AoE worth mentioning. He can of course kill things but his main contribution is the self-disabling Static Grip. This ability would be a lot more useful if it slowed Electrician but pulled the target towards him instead and the channeling was removed. Doing so would let Electrician attack the target meanwhile and let him do it from a relatively safe position.

Energy Absorption is pretty good for restoring mana, which he doesn't really have much use for other than for Energy Shield. Other than that, its damage is pitiful.

Electrician isn't useless but he's weak.

You are looking at this from a SOLO perspective.

I would agree 100% that electrician is a really bad 1v1 hero but he is a fairly decent support hero with respects to 5v5.

Purge is highly underrated and he has one of the best non-ult disables in the game as well as being incredibly tanky.

shibbidydoo
12-23-2009, 02:51 PM
You are looking at this from a SOLO perspective.

I would agree 100% that electrician is a really bad 1v1 hero but he is a fairly decent support hero with respects to 5v5.

Purge is highly underrated and he has one of the best non-ult disables in the game as well as being incredibly tanky.


Electrician ranks among one of the heroes with the least potential. He has a purge which is pretty good but nothing too good. This is because it is single target, doesn't damage and doesn't stun. Static grip is a good skill but he has little to combo it with because energy absorption is a pitiful excuse for AoE. Electric shield would've been a good ability if it had a damage reflect added onto it against melee heroes, but as it is, it most often just prolongs the inevitable a bit.

His skills are overall just weak, he can't deal much damage at all and has no AoE worth mentioning. He can of course kill things but his main contribution is the self-disabling Static Grip. This ability would be a lot more useful if it slowed Electrician but pulled the target towards him instead and the channeling was removed. Doing so would let Electrician attack the target meanwhile and let him do it from a relatively safe position.

Energy Absorption is pretty good for restoring mana, which he doesn't really have much use for other than for Energy Shield. Other than that, its damage is pitiful.

Electrician isn't useless but he's weak.
Hit the nail on the head. He has a solid early game, mid game initiation with grip, and in late game, provided you got the right items like sac stone and a frost field, is nigh unkillable. Dealy the innevitable? build right you should have the equivalent of at least 5000 hp with proper end game gear, with regen to boot. if by some miracle of god you get a sac stone AND a behemoths heart, you are the god of unkillability.

Akroma666
12-23-2009, 03:09 PM
Forsaken.. shes broken ans **** and i wont play her

Jeza
12-23-2009, 04:56 PM
War Beast. I've heard he can carry, never seen it in my entire life.

ANiChowy
12-23-2009, 05:02 PM
War Beast. I've heard he can carry, never seen it in my entire life.

Yes and he's really good at it.

As far as worst hero goes -> :zeph:

Gipp
12-23-2009, 05:03 PM
but sadly, electrician fails in pubs.

while you are gripping, your team is backing to prepare for their one by one invasion

shibbidydoo
12-23-2009, 06:36 PM
eh, i play electrician quite frequently, and it works out just fine. I have to yell at teamates to initiate with me yes, but laning i often help with first bloods. Hes a simple hero, but very effective throughout all phases in the game.

Mutin
12-23-2009, 06:44 PM
Deadwood, Night Hound, Engineer, Devourer and Nymph are all baddies.

But the price goes to -> TOO BAD, IT'S ME BLACKSMITH!

Gipp
12-23-2009, 07:54 PM
i dunno why devourer is considered so bad by many.
his early game ganking is really good.
even late game, a good hook can decide a team battle

Jive
12-23-2009, 07:54 PM
The one I see fail most on pubs would be Slither, people either go ward build and try to solo kongor or some other weird stuff and fail miserably or then always miss their poison sprays / bursts. Haven't seen a good Slither player yet (I'm not one of them either).

BIGWANG
12-23-2009, 09:55 PM
Devourers Intiation allows him to bring the enemies to him, for his team to destroy, instantly making it a 4 vs 5. That is far better than throwing yourself into 5 enemies. Don't get me wrong, it will be hard to farm, but you don't need to farm to use your abillities, You Rot, Hook, Ult. One enemy down (assuming team is there too).



Pharaoh - You go to your enemy stunning everyonein a smallish radius (300 or so i think) you have hell fire, good for ganking, puts you in the middle of a team fight.
Behemoth - best initiator there is.
Magmus - can intiatie with ult but then he is in the middle of 5 heroes (assuming no deaths)
Valk - Good stun, but it's a single target stun, and not the best for intiating, as you still have 4 other people to deal with.
Pebbles - Good stun, and chuck does alot of damage. No complaints


I said devourer was a good initiator, Most heroes can be agood ganker. Only Pudge and Andro can bring the enmy to them, and then disable them, however even andro has to place herself in the firing line.

i'm not saying he's the best hero ever, you are right about his lane presence being weak, the fact he can be harassed to great lengths. I am simply stating that he is not as useless as you seem to be making him out to be. Rampage for the worst hero :)

You are forgetting kraken. If kraken blinks in and takes 2-3 of your team with him, consider that temafight lost. IMO kraken is the best initiator, and his ult is uncounterable.

Andro can do shroud + swap but she will probably die anyway. Devourer is not a consistent intiator.


Deadwood, Night Hound, Engineer, Devourer and Nymph are all baddies.

But the price goes to -> TOO BAD, IT'S ME BLACKSMITH!

Nymph is not bad especially if you have behemoth or madman or another hero that benefits from the ability to spam.

shibbidydoo
12-24-2009, 02:50 AM
Deadwood, Night Hound, Engineer, Devourer and Nymph are all baddies.

But the price goes to -> TOO BAD, IT'S ME BLACKSMITH!

Deadwood: He cripples early game with almost blood hunter level deny power and an ult which cripples tanks for team face smashing like zenedine zidane at a metal concert.

Nighthound: Smoke bomb destroys team fights, nuff said.

engineer: He works as a double initiator, going in or at the same time as say, tempest or behemoth, to proceed to cripple undeniably with his ult. Also his tinker works wonders. Hes been beaten down and weakened many a time but far from worse.

Devourer: been said already many times ahead.

Nymph: She is a monster early game against anything but a double stun lane, can push and tear towers like Gorbachev, save allies with SOTM, set up perfect lane pushes and ganks with teleport, and with a behe heart, becomes Dwane Johnson and rocks the world beatles styles with fancy glasses and LSD.

TiLeN
12-24-2009, 09:59 PM
I'll have to go with Blacksmith. He relies too much on multicasting and his spells take a while to cooldown.
Cooldown = Death

Darxio
12-24-2009, 10:09 PM
I'd have to say Zephyr.

Mateui
12-24-2009, 10:49 PM
I really don't understand people saying that Blacksmith is this terrible hero. Even without his multicasting ability he's pretty good. A stun is a stun, which is always nice, no problems there. A slow combined with a dot is great as well. The ability to support your carry (or anyone else on your team for that matter) by increasing their attack speed substantially is amazing. The fact that his ult gives him a random chance to cast stronger versions of his spells is just an added bonus - you should never rely on it and play like you don't even have the ability.

The neat thing with Blacksmith being an INT is that with Behemoth's Heart his CDs get shortened - so if you're complaining about his cooldowns at least he has a way to solve that problem. Personally I find the CDs reasonable as they are.

Overall Blacksmith is a unique hero that is just fun to play. He does have trouble laning in the beginning so he needs to play a little more cautiously at first, but once you get through that phase everything gets much better.

MonkeyIsland
12-25-2009, 04:31 AM
Rampage. Unless permastunning noobs 1v1 is considered not being awful.

Problem with Rampage is his super nerf into HoN. Two changes have really weakened him.

- The addition of a bash cooldown (While on the whole a much needed change it really removes the ability to permabash, with only a 17% chance to proc it just seems almost cruel to cooldown it)

I used to buy yasha, power treads, MoM, AC and an extra hyperstone so I could permabash, now with same items its nowhere near as effective

- The addition of a charge warning indicator. I don't really see why this was added, with the ability to tree walk the best thing about bara was before you could even say 'omg did I just see bara' he was permastunning you and smacking you down with his nether strike. Now when you see the warning light you just safely back away to your allies/tower with no harm done. Without the element of suprise he sucks.

I can understand not wanting to allow permabash, its a rather evil (though effective) tactic, you could even outbash faceless void which is pretty impressive. But honestly, charge warning indicator? I escape virtually every charge now because I have such a large amount of time to bail.

Poor Barathrum, he was one of, if not the, favourite hero of mine now he just sucks.

LightRain
12-25-2009, 04:51 AM
None of the heroes are bad. It all depends on how you play it and how well you can maintain your consistency as being a good/better player.

Like someone posted before... "There are no bad heroes, there are only bad players."
except rampage
(he is bad)

spkoc
12-25-2009, 08:25 AM
The only heroes that I think are very bad are the super situational ones: Engi(doesn't do much unless you've got an ae disabler to keep people in your ult), rampage(doesn't do much), Vindicator(can be very good against very specific lineups or a shitty hard carry against most others).

Vindi is debatable since he counters some of the most vicious combos in the game, but besides countering tempest/behe/magmus and effing up lanes without early spammable spells he's just a really mediocre and very hard to farm up carry.

e. oh and zephyr, I've never tried just going mega-fast farm. Perhaps if you can get 500gpm for the first 25-30 minutes he can build his way to victory buuut, really he can't do anything but carry and push lanes and he's a very subpar carry.

arcainic
12-25-2009, 09:08 AM
i still think slither sucks more ballz than any other hero out there.

Gumbie
12-25-2009, 09:25 AM
Slither or Armadon. A 5v5 dupe where everyone on one team goes Armadon is bloody funny though.

Ahteh
12-25-2009, 01:44 PM
Problem with Rampage is his super nerf into HoN. Two changes have really weakened him.

- The addition of a bash cooldown (While on the whole a much needed change it really removes the ability to permabash, with only a 17% chance to proc it just seems almost cruel to cooldown it)

I used to buy yasha, power treads, MoM, AC and an extra hyperstone so I could permabash, now with same items its nowhere near as effective

- The addition of a charge warning indicator. I don't really see why this was added, with the ability to tree walk the best thing about bara was before you could even say 'omg did I just see bara' he was permastunning you and smacking you down with his nether strike. Now when you see the warning light you just safely back away to your allies/tower with no harm done. Without the element of suprise he sucks.

I can understand not wanting to allow permabash, its a rather evil (though effective) tactic, you could even outbash faceless void which is pretty impressive. But honestly, charge warning indicator? I escape virtually every charge now because I have such a large amount of time to bail.

Poor Barathrum, he was one of, if not the, favourite hero of mine now he just sucks.

Uhm, the bash cd was there in dota too.

I'll have to agree with Rampage tho.