Pebbles

[Padawanabee]

Pebbles

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4642/peb1.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/peb1.jpg/)
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7519/peb2.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/peb2.jpg/)

Str 24+3
Agi 9+.9
Int 14+1.6


*welcome to the worst starting stats in the game. No, I really mean it. These stats are horrible. I mean, really, really horrible. At least Glacius has range, this guy has nothing. Str gain is high, with Int being just below average. So his important stats eventually reach reasonable levels.

The elemental creatures of Newerth have long kept away from mortal struggles, seeking instead to heal the destruction left in their wake. In the current war, however, some elementals have taken up arms against the daemons, and the huge and implacable Pebbles is one of them.



Table of Contents


Introduction
Pros/Cons
Skills
Skill build
Items
Strategy
Skill use and Synergies
Waiting on Cooldowns



Introduction


Pebbles is a ganker. There's nothing else he can do with his skillset. He is sub-par tank and a poor physical DPSer. He is the ultimate one-hit-wonder, with two spells that can be used singly or together for fantastic results, after which he runs like a sissy girl until his spells are back up. Don't let his main stat fool you: Pebbles is a caster.

That said, there are few heroes that can wreck a lineup in the ganking phase like Pebbles. With just a few simple items and minimal experience he can end any hero he wants whenever he feels like it. Pebbles can win most any 1v1 "fight in the woods" scenario early game. However, for maximum results, play Pebbles with allies who can take advantage of your skillset.

He is an imperfect port of Tiny from DotA. However, only the passive has been changed, and neither ability is exactly noteworthy.

Pros and Cons

Pros


Two AoE nukes/disables for laning, ganking, and team destroying.
One of the best gankers, roamers, and, "omg Pebbs why u go for me every time", heroes.
Looks and sounds like AHHNOLD!


Cons



Horrible stats
Starved for mana

Needs a few key items to get rolling
Scales poorly late game
Spends much of his time waiting on cooldowns



Skills


http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/c/cc/Pebblesskill1.gif/96px-Pebblesskill1.gif Stalagmites



Pebbles summons forth an eruption of stalagmites at a target location, stunning and damaging all enemies in the area.
Target ground
Enemy units
Magic damage
AoE: 200
Range: 600 *Gains 50 range per level of Enlarge
Mana cost: 120
Cooldown: 20 seconds
Deals 100/180/260/300 Magic damage and stuns each target in radius for 2 seconds.

A fairly standard stun with a twist. As a stun it's fairly good, comparable to similar ranged AoE stuns. Often you will want to combo this with Chuck whenever you can, as it deals double damage to an enemy in the air while it hits.


http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/1/1a/Pebblesskill2.gif/96px-Pebblesskill2.gif (http://honwiki.net/wiki/File:Pebblesskill2.gif)Chuck

Pebbles throws a nearby unit to target location, damaging it and all enemies in an area around where it lands.

Target Unit
All units
Magic damage
AoE: 300
Range: 500/700/900/1100
Mana Cost: 120
Cooldown: 10
Deals 75/150/225/300 Magic damage to enemy units in radius. Buildings receive 33% damage. Deals 15/30/45/60 Magic damage to thrown unit.

A powerful and versatile ability that can be very hard to use effectively. It's cooldown is half that of Stalagmites, so in addition to comboing it with Stalagmites half the time, you will often want to use this skill on it's own half the time.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/be/Pebblesskill3.gif/96px-Pebblesskill3.gif (http://honwiki.net/wiki/File:Pebblesskill3.gif)Slab Skin

Grants bonus armor and reduces the duration of debuffs.

Passive
Self
+2/4/6/8 Armor. Reduces debuff duration by 10/20/30/40%.

A passive ability that would be quite useful early if it wasn't outclassed by his other two, and mid-late gives us a decent amount of extra survivability.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/bf/Pebblesskill4.gif/96px-Pebblesskill4.gif (http://honwiki.net/wiki/File:Pebblesskill4.gif)Enlarge

Makes Pebbles grow larger, increasing attack damage, move speed, adding to the power of his other skills, yet greatly slowing his attack speed.

Passive
Self


+5/10/15 Movement Speed
-20/35/50 Attack Speed
+40/80/120 Base Damage

Increases Stalagmites range by 50/100/150. Increases damage dealt to enemy chucked units from 20% to 35/50/60%

A very nice passive ultimate increasing skills and stats. This skill makes his combo even stronger, especially when combined with powerful (but slow!) auto-attacks before and after.



Skill Build




Standard



Level 1. Stalagmites
Level 2. Chuck
Level 3. Stalagmites
Level 4. Chuck
Level 5. Stalagmites
Level 6. Chuck
Level 7. Stalagmites/Chuck
Level 8. Chuck/Stalagmites
Level 9. Grow
Level 10. Slab Skin
Level 11. Grow
Level 12. Slab Skin
Level 13. Slab Skin
Level 14. Slab Skin
Level 15. Stats
Level 16. Grow
Level 17-25. Stats



Stalagmites and Chuck are nukes and disables, so max them both. Grow is taken after the two are maxed, and Slab Skin is slightly better than stats. Could say more, but it's not like there's any other way to build him.



Items


Initial Items

Pebbles needs two things when he goes to his lane: +4 int and regen. The reason you need the int when going to you lane is that at level 2 you'll have both nukes. You need 240 mana to combo them. Pebbles needs +4 int to have 240 mana at level 2. If you don't have mana for both nukes you will probably lose your lane.

You can go about getting that int any way you'd like, but here's how I spend my 603 gold:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7532/bfkeps.jpghttp://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5827/33o4aro.jpg http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5827/33o4aro.jpg http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4536/313jh2d.jpg x6 http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8149/dxmz3k.jpg http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/dxmz3k.jpg/1/w64.pngx2

Pretender's Crown - 185
2x Minor Totem - 106
6x Runes of the Blight - 180
2x Mana Potion - 100
Total - 571

Now then, this is where it gets tricky. Pebbles has quite a few issues that have to be solved with items. He needs reliable mana and mana regen, he needs mobility, and he needs armor. He could also use attack speed. Fortunately, there are a few items that cover these needs quite well.

Items with * are essential, others can be passed on. For example, if you have enough for Ring of Sorcery before you even leave your lane, having a bottle is much less important.
http://i36.tinypic.com/96cj9v.jpg *Marchers - 500 - Upgrades come later.

http://i38.tinypic.com/5n51zp.jpg Bottle - 600 - Pebble's role as a ganker and roamer makes bottle a good choice for both holding on to good runes and a limited source of regen.

http://i34.tinypic.com/sff52q.jpg Power Supply - 519 - You can turn your early game totems into this for some clutch burst regen.


http://i35.tinypic.com/2lnxwzp.jpg *Portal Key - 2150 - As soon as you have boots and mana regen covered, you save for this. It dramatically increases Pebble's ability to combo his enemies, as he no longer needs to use Stalagmites to get into Chuck range or use fog 90% of the time.

http://i36.tinypic.com/3128cp2.jpg Wards of Sight - 200 - If noone else is getting wards, you might want to. Extra useful if you either are farming a lane for portal key or are rune whoring to gank.

http://i36.tinypic.com/w7mvsi.jpg *Teleport Stone - 135 - Useful and cheap.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2vxhv9f.jpg Steamboots - 1450 - IMO the best boots for Pebbles. Make them int and between these and bottle you should have enough mana for the early game.

Suggested Build

Start with your initiation items. Buy a Mana Battery from outpost, and get a courier to fly a Bottle to you. Build Steamboots and save for your Portal Key.

This build provides easy buildup and reliable mana regen, but delays your portal key for a while.


Core

http://i33.tinypic.com/2vxhv9f.jpghttp://i38.tinypic.com/5n51zp.jpghttp://i35.tinypic.com/2lnxwzp.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/sff52q.jpg


Luxuries

Let me start off by saying when I say luxuries I mean it. If you're EVER farming as Pebbles, you're doing it wrong. Sure, you last hit while laning, and you can pick up a creep wave with your combo whenever you have mana, but if you spend time farming as Pebbles you picked the wrong hero.

You can focus on either DPS or Tank/Support.

Let's face it: Pebbles is a big guy. And he earns a lot of hate for it. He ate a bunch (got fed by squisheys) and has now gotten really, really, big. But that's okay, because he has two skills that synergize somewhat well with his newly found big-guy-tank-role.

At the same time, I honestly believe trying to turn Pebbles into a physical DPSer is a lost cause. Just pick Dark Lady if you want to be doing +120 damage most of the time. However, if you get a lot of farm and I MEAN A LOT OF FARM, you can become a semi-respectable source of dps, even while providing your own disables!


http://i35.tinypic.com/w0n86t.jpg Tablet of Command - 2200 - I like this item on Pebbles for it's utility and the ability to blink in, combo, and Tablet to safety. You probably won't care for the item, however, so just shrug it off and move on to the next item.

http://i37.tinypic.com/f4fbdl.jpg Kuldra's Sheepstick - 5675 - A very nice item on Pebbles. And really anyone. But more so on Pebbles, seeing as how the problem with Kuldra is usually, "I could use it, but I just can't farm enough". Pebbles problem is, "I can farm like a beast, but items are almost always wasted on me!"

http://i35.tinypic.com/1zoezx5.jpg Daemonic Breastplate - 5550 - If I had to recommend an item to work towards, it would be this or Sheepstick. As usual, it solves your armor issues. It also supports your team while giving a nifty attack speed boost to offset your ult.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2d6zvb.jpg Barbed Armor - 2200 - You're big, and you probably killed them a whole lot early. They hate you, and they're looking to make you pay in blood!

http://i35.tinypic.com/1iogwj.jpg Frostfield Plate - 4700 - Also an effective item on Pebbles. Armor is always useful, and the aura/slow active do wonders to help your team out late.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2mxpi6t.jpg Behemoth's Heart - 5500 - Who's gonna argue with almost 1k hp and regen? Not Pebbles!


http://i36.tinypic.com/2hydr0o.jpg Harkon's - 4875 - A nifty luxury item, it provides a good amount of int and mana regen, some damage, and a small attack speed boost. The real fun, however, is it's effect making Pebbles hit for 300 pure and combo for over 1k against targets without additional magic armor.

[Padawanabee]

Strategy



Laning

You would think Pebbles is a horrible laner. And to a degree you are correct. However, if you combine Pebbles with another stunner he can actually hold his own. Especially if this hero is ranged.

Pebbles can solo mid, and due to his amazing ganking ability it can be quite effective, but only if the enemies' solo mid is very, very, bad. Thus, if you get good with Pebbles, go ahead and solo mid in a pub. But if you're playing even a 1650+ psr game, you're going to lose the lane in most situations.

In most lanes involving a ranged enemy, you'll be harassed to nothing. You're a melee who starts with 0 armor. However, starting at level 2 you are one of the most dangerous heroes in the game for the next 20 minutes. Thus, Pebble's laning success is based on intimidation.

Yes, you have to rely on mind games to come out even with your average hero. However, if your enemies are inexperienced, overconfident, slow to react, or a number of other things, you can dominate a lane as Pebbles. For you see, Pebbles needs just 240 mana and melee range with just about any enemy to kill them. That's the heroes thing. It's his gimmick. So every time you start running forward, your enemies can either disable you, run, or die. Don't harass with your spells, you don't have the mana to support it. You combo the enemy, and you either kill/send them back to fountain, or they get to harass you without fear since you are now out of mana.

Your goal in your lane is to obtain 1100 as quickly as possible. You use this money to get Bottle and Marchers. Once you have your movespeed and mana regen under control, you go ganking and do nothing but gank for the rest of the game.

Pebbles ganking potential relies on fog of war and rune control. Pebbles is probably the most rune-dependent ganker on Newerth, especially if you opt to solo mid, so control the runes for a successful early game.

Notes:


Don't solo unless you're confident and your enemies are likely to be bad
Lane with a fellow disabler/stunner for easy kills and intimidation
Don't harass or get harassed, as you will lose a war of attrition.
Farm, kill, and get your items as quickly as possible. (Durr hurr good advice guide-writer-guy)
Control runes to the best of your ability, use haste or invis runes for easy combo's.




Skill use and synergies


Stalagmites

This skill is quite unique. It is, in effect, 4 AoE stuns one after the other. If you've used the skill recently, you may recall that it makes the rock crush noise 4 times. This is because it actually does 25/45/65/75 damage while stunning for 1 second with each crush. This means someone walking into the AoE halfway through will get hit with 2 of them.

This skill has a fairly short delay between when you cast and when the AoE gets hit based on range, and an almost instantaneous cast time.

Chuck

Has a shorter cooldown than Stalagmites, so can be used independently if there's a need.

Uses closest unit to Pebbles, so aiming can be tricky.

Deals damage to towers, but only 33%. So 25/50/75/100

Enlarge gives this ability extra bonus damage when Chucking an enemy unit.
Level 0: 15/30/45/60 (based on level of Chuck)
Level 1: 26/53/79/105
Level 2: 38/75/113/150
Level 3: 49/98/146/195

Will deal 60 damage to allied Chucked units at all levels.

Hero killing with Stalagmites and Chuck

If you were to hit a hero perfectly with Stalagmites and Chuck, at level 16, you would deal:

(Stalagmites x2 = 600 magic damage) + (Chuck does 300+195=495)
600+495

1095 magic damage. It's quite a significant amount, and they also both disable enemies while dealing most of this damage in an AoE. He may be a one-hit wonder, but it's a very powerful hit, that it is.

Keep in mind while reading all of these that your auto-attack should be used whenever possible during these skills usage. Both Chuck and Stalagmites have disables attached, and your hero hits hella hard, so any extra punches while an enemy is stunned is that much more burst you're throwing down.

Not quite hero killing, but it is worth noting that using Stalagmites and Chuck together will be enough to kill an entire creep wave during the early portion of the game. If you have free mana, this is a nifty way to get a quick 250 gold while pushing a lane.

In order of increasing complexity...

Stalagmites

Using this skill on it's own is very simple. It's a short-delay AoE nukes, so try to get as many heroes in it as possible and follow up with other spells/auto attacks.

If an enemy is moving, you will have to aim in front of them to hit them.

Chuck on enemy

Set up so that the enemy is the closest unit to Pebbles, and Chuck the enemy on itself. This will deal full damage and disable him for a second so that you can hit him once or twice.

Chuck to an area

You can use Chuck not only as a nuke but as a displacement. Some common tactics would be tossing a friendly Legionnaire into a group of enemies as a sort of poor-man's Portal Key. You can toss an enemy chasing you back into other enemies to gain some space. You can toss an enemy into a group of allies for fun.

Oh, and never toss an enemy Behemoth into a group of allies. You would not believe all the hate I had to read through after I stopped laughing.

Stalagmites to Chuck

This will be your most common attack combo in the early game. Since most enemies will run when you come near them, you will need to utilize things such as Fog of War and allied stuns to get a perfect combo on enemies. However, until then you will have to use Stalagmites on an enemy so that will be stunned, using the 2 second stun time to run into range and chuck the enemy. This combo gives you the greatest amount of disable time, but Stalagmites will not hit twice.

Arachna gets too close to Pebbs, and gets Stalagmited.
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7594/peb4.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/peb4.jpg/)

Using the stun time, I close with Arachna and Chuck her into the air.
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3109/peb5.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/peb5.jpg/)

Stalagmites + Chuck on enemy

Pebbles signature combo. You will need to be in 275 range for this combo to work, and you will need 240 mana. Any damage from any of the four bursts from Stalagmites will deal double damage to an enemy currently being Chucked. Thus, using both on an enemy deals insane amounts of damage.

I used the fog from elevation to get into melee range, comboing both spells onto this unfortunate Arachna.
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1548/peb6.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/peb6.jpg/)

Many people ask whether it is more effective to Stalagmites or Chuck first. If you're quick enough, you can deal good damage to an enemy either way. Remember, it deals it's damage 4x over the course of 1 second after the short delay. So you can get double damage during any of those. Or all. Or none.

Doing Stalagmites to Chuck gives a slightly (I'm talking like .3 seconds) larger window than Chuck to Stalagmites. It's also easier to pull off, as it can be easier to screw up Chuck on a moving target than Stalagmites.

Stalagmites on enemy + Chuck to area

A very effective combo, especially when near allied towers and heroes. You can use Stalagmites to hold an enemy down, then run into melee range to the enemy hero and Chuck that hero to an allied tower, for example. They will be damage by both of your skills and now very close to an allied tower. Very deadly.

Here's a graphical representation of the aforementioned hypothesized scenario.

A wild Pebbles appeared!
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3692/peb7.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/peb7.jpg/)
Pebbles used Stalagmites!
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6140/peb8.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/peb8.jpg/)
Pebbles used Chuck!
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3290/peb9.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/peb9.jpg/)
It's super effective!

Chuck on area + Stalagmites to enemy

Like the previous combo, but better. If you can get an ally to stun, or use fog, or blink, or just have a stupid enemy, you can run into melee range, Chuck the enemy to the allied hero/tower, and then Stalagmites them in that area. This has the added bonus of both holding them down near the allied damage dealer, and getting the Stalagmites/Chuck double damage bonus.

Here we have Arachna Chucked into the tower's range, while being Stalagmited by Pebbles. Meanwhile, Pebbs strikes a pose.
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4930/peb3.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/peb3.jpg/)

Waiting on Cooldowns

Pebbles has, as I've said before, a one-hit-wonder combo. After these spells have been used, each goes on cooldown. About 90% of my Pebbles' games are spent running like a girl while these abilities recharge.

It is your choice whether to stand and fight or run and hide. If you've combo'd an enemy and they're 1-2 hits away, you will probably want to chase. Unless their allies have just gone mia from their lanes, and they might be counter-ganking you. In which case you'll want to GTFO.

Basically, if you have the advantage, press it. You hit hard, if a bit slow, and 10 seconds isn't that long. However, if the enemy team outnumbers you, you can do much more for you team by bailing on them until your spells are usable again. Use your own judgment, but I prefer to take the, "OMG don't hurt meeee", approach most of the time. It pays off in the end.

Here's the perfect example of what I mean. This series of events actually happened in a game a day or two ago, and I redid them in practice mode as closely as I could get to the real thing. So while these pictures are all from practice mode, this is what actually happened in the game (except for the last picture, but we'll get to that).

Hellbringer shows up to steal my farm.
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1984/pebbs1.jpg (http://img686.imageshack.us/i/pebbs1.jpg/)

I stupidly use both my moves on him without getting into melee range.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6286/pebbs2.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/pebbs2.jpg/)

Hellbringer uses all of the moves he has available. He's healed himself significantly, while I have no cooldowns.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2271/pebbs3.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/pebbs3.jpg/)

He has his Balrog go straight in and tank the tower while he loops around. I eat a tree and wait on cooldowns.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9658/pebbs4.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/pebbs4.jpg/)

I make a dash to the west, he chases with his Balrog, and I use Chuck, which has a 10 second cooldown, to get his beast off my back while damaging him.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6323/pebbs5.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/pebbs5.jpg/)

Had things continued as they were going, Hellbringer would have looped around, only to discover that Stalagmites was finally off of it's ridiculous 20 second cooldown.
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9313/pebbs7.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/pebbs7.jpg/)

What actually happened was one of my allies, Pandamonium, came in and ulted the Hellbringer.

The point I'm trying to make is not that I made a good play, in fact both me and Hell sucked it up REALLY hard. The point is that Pebbles has an amazing combo, and when it's off cooldown you're very easy to kill. Know when to follow up disables with auto attack, and when to run back and wait for your spells to be usable again.

-16113414

[Padawanabee]

33636711

1600+ game with me as Pebbles. Not the fanciest game ever, but I do end up using the regen from bottle+int steamboots for the majority of the game with few mana problems.

24609636

mid-high skilled game with a teammate playing Pebbles.

[ShammySham]

Nice guide, but wouldn't getting grow be better instead of maxing out throw/stalag first due to the added range on stalagmites and the extra damage for throw?

[Kzanu]

Sry man, but I can't see any image or picture. None. I'm using firefox.

[Padawanabee]

That's strange, because I still can.

Also, seeing as Pebbles is a ganker I prefer extra levels in my nukes to a level in Enlarge.

[NyRe]

Nice guide, but wouldn't getting grow be better instead of maxing out throw/stalag first due to the added range on stalagmites and the extra damage for throw?

Usually, no. Just maxing those skills gives more damage and you're expected to not do solo ganks to need extra range on Stalagmites. Besides, it somewhat hurts your laning because without any AS items your lasthitting will be painfully slow, you will have to attempt it on higher HP creeps and push the lane as a result. Imo grow is not very useful until you get a source of AS and/or a Portal Key for actually being near enough to heroes for the damage to be relevant. Reducing duration on debuff is worth additional skillpoints.

Great guide. Personally I prefer Steamboots for more midgame DPS, but I guess Post Haste can work as well. Especially great since the guide mentions Nome's, it's a great item on Pebbles now.

[nicker571]

Usually, no. Just maxing those skills gives more damage and you're expected to not do solo ganks to need extra range on Stalagmites. Besides, it somewhat hurts your laning because without any AS items your lasthitting will be painfully slow, you will have to attempt it on higher HP creeps and push the lane as a result. Imo grow is not very useful until you get a source of AS and/or a Portal Key for actually being near enough to heroes for the damage to be relevant. Reducing duration on debuff is worth additional skillpoints.

Great guide. Personally I prefer Steamboots for more midgame DPS, but I guess Post Haste can work as well. Especially great since the guide mentions Nome's, it's a great item on Pebbles now.

Yeah the range falls out of place as soon as you get ahold of a portal key. once you have portal key your job is to port straight ontop of them for straight up slam. also i only see a few things i dont like. i dont really like how your items are listed up, i find the most effective setup (after starting items) is to get your base marchers, then get your Ring of Sorcery, then finish marchers into ghost, then get a port key. by the time i get these im already hitting so hard i dont really need much else. but i like to grab a nice B-heart or if there is a nice tank in game i grab an Assassins Shroud.

As for the Shroud i catch so much beef on it but here is the thing. Not only does it give you a nice boost in dmg, but you can port in, combo spells, hit a few times , and if he isnt dead you can simply Shroud out of danger. Is an amazing combo if your team already has a decent tank.

All in all i really like this guide, good explanations and the pics are a real bonus for anyone new to pebs.

[NyRe]

Yeah the range falls out of place as soon as you get ahold of a portal key. once you have portal key your job is to port straight ontop of them for straight up slam. also i only see a few things i dont like. i dont really like how your items are listed up, i find the most effective setup (after starting items) is to get your base marchers, then get your Ring of Sorcery, then finish marchers into ghost, then get a port key. by the time i get these im already hitting so hard i dont really need much else. but i like to grab a nice B-heart or if there is a nice tank in game i grab an Assassins Shroud.

As for the Shroud i catch so much beef on it but here is the thing. Not only does it give you a nice boost in dmg, but you can port in, combo spells, hit a few times , and if he isnt dead you can simply Shroud out of danger. Is an amazing combo if your team already has a decent tank.

All in all i really like this guide, good explanations and the pics are a real bonus for anyone new to pebs.

I don't think getting RoS is of any use for Pebbles in the current environment. Nome's is flat out better, it gives more effective mana regen (really, measure the numbers) than RoS and is better in every other aspect, including scaling. The only time you would want it built is perhaps when your lanemate is also a RoS carrier, translating to a Pebbles/Jeraziah lane exclusively since no other dual melee involving Pebbles is really viable and even that one is on the edge of viability.

[noamchomsky]

Units effected by chuck take extra dmg but while they are in mid air they are impervious to damage. How long does the duration for chuck last?

[Credge]

Units effected by chuck take extra dmg but while they are in mid air they are impervious to damage. How long does the duration for chuck last?

Sure about that? I've tossed enemies who have died mid-flight.

[noamchomsky]

So while they are in mid air they are impervious to all damage besides stalagmites?

[Padawanabee]

Units effected by chuck take extra dmg but while they are in mid air they are impervious to damage. How long does the duration for chuck last?

Chuck lasts one second no matter the distance they travel. And while enemies are hard to click on while Chucked, they can still take damage.

[Alask]

(Stalagmites x2 = 600 magic damage) + (Chuck does 300+60+195=555)


Slight error in the chuck damage. The +60 damage is is due to the 20% base bounus you get from chucking something (hence 60 is 20% of 300). As you level enlarge the 20% base changes to 35%, 50% and 65%. So Chuck damage with lvl 3 enlarge is just 300+195=495.

[Padawanabee]

No, because all targets both allied and enemy take 15/30/45/60 damage from Chuck. I'm gonna check up on that, now, but I believe that's right.

Edit: Checked it by tossing a couple neuts and you were right. While the skill deals 60 damage to allied units at all levels, it deals 105/150/195 to enemy units chucked when the ultimate is leveled.

I see the problem, now. The in-game tooltip supplies your version, while the version from HoNwiki I used to copy used the other version, probably from an earlier version of HoN. Anyway, it's fixed. And thanks for catching that.

[Pwnage_Plus]

Nice guide man. You rock.

[Alask]

I see the problem, now. The in-game tooltip supplies your version, while the version from HoNwiki I used to copy used the other version, probably from an earlier version of HoN. Anyway, it's fixed. And thanks for catching that.
Np man. Was messing around with Pebs the other day and noticed it, plus apparrently you can Chuck unrevealed invis units if they are near.

But anyway good guide. If you wanted to add stuff to it you could aways talk about Chuck tactics like:


Toss in's ie. Chucking in allies like Keeper, Behe, Mag ect. if they dont have blink, or even for getting team members you hate killed



Tower killing ie. if an enermy melee hero is dening a tower, throw something at him and get the tower kill

Or even just mentioning good allies to have as Pebbles and why. You know stuff that you dont see in other Pebbles guides.

Also, im just being pedantic but in your skill build section you have written "Grow" instead of "Enlarge"

[deadlydorito]

Nice guide man. You rock.

no man, YOU rock. nice pun.

Pebbles is such a fun hero, when you get your mana regen and teleport, its lulz all around!

I enjoy chucking tree so he ults. so fun.

[Ftero]

Np man. Was messing around with Pebs the other day and noticed it, plus apparrently you can Chuck unrevealed invis units if they are near.

But anyway good guide. If you wanted to add stuff to it you could aways talk about Chuck tactics like:


Toss in's ie. Chucking in allies like Keeper, Behe, Mag ect. if they dont have blink, or even for getting team members you hate killed



Tower killing ie. if an enermy melee hero is dening a tower, throw something at him and get the tower kill

Or even just mentioning good allies to have as Pebbles and why. You know stuff that you dont see in other Pebbles guides.

Also, im just being pedantic but in your skill build section you have written "Grow" instead of "Enlarge"

I had wondered about that. I was in a game where me and pest tried ganking a lone :nigh: but we didn't have the eye and he got away with no health, so here came a teammate of NH's a little bit later and I went to chuck my pest buddy at him only to notice my cooldown was used and pest was still next to me and all the sudden...DING! NH is dead. I thought initially I must have thrown a creep i didn't see, but now I'm thinking I threw a stupid NH who stuck around too long.

[D3VILMAN]

so in the end.. chuck then stalag.. or stalag then chuck

[Padawanabee]

Many people ask whether it is more effective to Stalagmites or Chuck first. If you're quick enough, you can deal full damage to an enemy either way. Remember, it deals it's damage 4x over the course of 1 second after the short delay. So you can get double damage during any of those. Or all. Or none.

Doing Chuck to Stalagmites gives a slightly (I'm talking like .3 seconds) larger window than Stalagmites to Chuck. However, Stalagmites to Chuck is easier to pull off, as it can be easier to screw up Chuck on a moving target than Stalagmites.



Either one you use first will get you very similar results. It is more important that you get the combo off without screwing it up than getting the full damage. So I will usually Chuck to Stalagmites, as Chuck is assured and Stalag always has a small chance of your enemy juking you at the last second. However, against an enemy outside of Chuck range you'll have to use Stalagmites on to slow enough to Chuck, and even then you can sometimes get the last half dealing double.

[twincannon]

Np man. Was messing around with Pebs the other day and noticed it, plus apparrently you can Chuck unrevealed invis units if they are near.
So wait, does that mean when an invis might be near you can just run around smashing "W" until it gives a targeting reticle?!?!

Also, just to be positive, it is chuck first then stalag for max damage on one unit, right?

[IAMABLE]

stalag first and chuck during stalag animation with the same target

[Alask]

So wait, does that mean when an invis might be near you can just run around smashing "W" until it gives a targeting reticle?!?!

No, if you put your cursor over an unrevealed invis unti, the targeting reticle for chuck (im assuming you mean the red circle) wont appear seeing that the game doesnt allow you to target unrevealed invis units.

But what you can do if you think your being stalked is move into the open and target yourself with chuck, if something invis is nearby it will be chucked and take full damage.



Chuck
Deals damage to towers, but only half. So 37.5/75/112.5/150

Should be 25/50/75/100 (33% not 50%)

[Mark]

I just tested the double damage in a practice game against 550hp creeps

lv1 stun - 98 damage
lv1 throw - 87 thrown / 73 target damage
sum of total stun and throw(when preformed separately) = 185 thrown / 171 target damage

lv1 throw and then lv1 stun - 186 thrown / 172 target damage
lv1 stun and then lv1 throw - 172 thrown / 185 target damage

so i get 186/172 and 172/185 damage when i combo the skills and 185/171 total damage when i do each skill separately. I only tested this once and with only lv1 skills, shouldnt the damage be 200magic damage + 75magic + 15magic but i only seem to get 100 + 75 + 15 no matter in what order(or completely separate)

I'm probably just doing something retarded, but if not it's a bug.

[Padawanabee]

I've updated the guide, as I've recently come to enjoy going Bottle+Steamboots to Portal Key, and then finishing either Nome's or Ring of Sorcery after that.

[Kombatted]

Thanks for the guide man.

Very helpful.

[Qwernakus]

Pebbles can be very efficient mid. Heroes like Voodoo Jester, Hellbringer and defiler are powerless against him, and if he enters ganking phase with a mid kill, he will be mowing down enemies. Once he gets a portal key, the enemy can say goodbye to any farm.

22905900

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=22905900

Thats a match ID of me rocking as pebbles mid.

[ViciousJawa]

Pebbles can be very efficient mid. Heroes like Voodoo Jester, Hellbringer and defiler are powerless against him, and if he enters ganking phase with a mid kill, he will be mowing down enemies. Once he gets a portal key, the enemy can say goodbye to any farm.

22905900

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=22905900

Thats a match ID of me rocking as pebbles mid.

I watched 7 minutes of that game. Eh, Engineer sucked and you didn't do anything exceptional at all. Nothing to see here :/

[SaberMonk]

I can confirm that you can definitely still hurt people who are being chucked. As Witch Slayer I once ulted an engineer who was still in the air from chuck, and he died before hitting the ground. I had not measured the range right and had clicked on him while I was a little too far away, but right after he left the ground I came into range and WS shot him down :)

[spdn4cr]

Pada, can you confirm that the chuck-stalagmite vs stalagmite-chuck does the same damage. A few of us have tested this in practice mode and we don't get that result. I was told that if you chuck you have to immediately do the stalagmite but I get less damage on the enemy hero then if I stalagmite and then Chuck. I suppose we could all be doing this wrong, but we've tested in a number of times.

Pebbles needs two things when he goes to his lane: +4 int and regen. The reason you need the int when going to you lane is that at level 2 you'll have both nukes. You need 240 mana to combo them. Pebbles needs +4 int to have 240 mana at level 2. If you don't have mana for both nukes you will probably lose your lane.
How often are you really dumping your whole mana pool on level 2 just so you can cast the weakest version of each of your combo pieces, given that you could merely wait until level 3 and get roughly twice as more damage on either spell for the same 120 mana? The reason I ask is I can see a lot of value from buckler or courier or guardian ring (or even hatchet), and 185 for a crown is pretty inefficient. I think I'd farm a lot better if I could stand the harassment via buckler. I'm also curious how you manage the buildup from the crown into talisman/fortified, when you're trying to get bottle/steamboots/nomes/portal ASAP.

So, can you list your exact ordering of acquisition of the following?

Runes of Blight x2
? Gold: 180
Mana Potion x2
? Gold: 100
Minor Totem x2
? Gold: 106
Pretender's Crown
? Gold: 185

Power Supply
? Gold: 290
*Mana Battery
? Gold: 210
*Major Totem
? Gold: 540
Mark of the Novice
? Gold: 150
Talisman of Exile
? Gold: 150
Bottle
? Gold: 600
Marchers
? Gold: 500
Bolstering Armband
? Gold: 450
*Gloves of the Swift
? Gold: 500
Nome's Wisdom
? Gold: 260
Neophyte's Book
? Gold: 1000
*Scarab
? Gold: 325
Guardian Ring
? Gold: 175
*Portal Key
? Gold: 2150

TOTAL: 7872

There's a lot of items competing for my attention/dollars in that list. Personally, I know I tend to get flustered and end up buy whatever I can afford when I'm at a shop, which leads to a lot of half-finished stuff and a choked inventory.

Also, and maybe this is crazy, but what about just rushing Tablet first? Let's say you're level 6 with no stat gear yet, except the two minor totems you stat with. Tablet takes you from mana 312/regen 0.97 up to 520/1.61. I'm not very good with melees, so I have a lot of trouble farming a portal key; it might be >25 minutes into the game before I get one. Could not the tablet function like a 'Portal Key Lite, with stats'? I know 1300>>>500, but tablet should be enough to pop through a line of trees, and even has some benefits as an escape mechanism, or chasing while damaged, or allowing you to make their hero jump forward into your and your teammate, rather than you making a potentially risky jump into them. It also builds more like this:

Runes of Blight x2
? Gold: 180
Minor Totem x2
? Gold: 106
Monkey Courier:
? Gold: 200

Bottle (need to practice ferrying; what's a monkey's roundtrip time to base?)
? Gold: 600
*Major Totem
? Gold: 540
Marchers
? Gold: 500
Neophyte's Book
? Gold: 1000
Tablet of Command
? Gold: 500

TOTAL: 3626

Even a baddie like myself can farm that fast! (Of course, portal key is easier for a baddie like myself to use.)

[Padawanabee]

You don't have to get every single item on the list. I noted above the item list that many items can be passed on depending on your farm.

My usual build follows either of these paths.

Route 1

Ini t-> Mana Battery (outpost) -> Bottle -> Marchers -> Steamboots (int) -> Portal Key -> Nomes.

This provides easy, reliable, buildup with good mana supplied from battery/ bottle, and steamboots.

Route 2
Init -> Mana Battery (outpost) -> Brain (outpost) -> Ring of Sorcery -> Marchers -> Portal Key.

If you have a very easy lane and can make a 1700 gold item out of your lane before getting Marchers.

Things such as finishing Power Supply and a Fortified Braclet/selling the Pretender's Crown depend on how much room you have, and how well you've farmed.

[Padawanabee]

Changed the random Hellflower under luxuries to a Harkon's Blade. Also, trying to find a replay but can't find one I'm happy with, so it may take me a few days.

[Mikelsa]

i have heared that demonic breastplate doesn't more work well on Pebbles, bullshit or not? explain me pls

i usually get in this order

marchers
ring of sorc
steamboots/ buy or sell a bracer
portal key
? i don't know what to take after, i've tried frostfield and demonic up to this time.

[Kcolraw]

always nice to build a sheepstick if you get a nice farm

[TribalShaman]

Read this (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showpost.php?p=691282&postcount=31) post in this (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=50836) thread.

Stalagmites > Chuck gives more damage than Chuck > Stalagmites. Need further proof, test it in practise mode.

Nice guide, Pebbles is super fun :)

[Boogsta1]

nice.

[Darkalbino_]

May I suggest first item portal key?

Obviously, when solo mid bottle is essential to keep you out on the field, sometimes, I will even skip boots if my farm is hardcore. I can normally get my key around 7-8 minutes. Recently I have had 4 games where the enemy team has quit @ 15-20minutes just through sheer frustration. Kind of annoying to have pebbles killing someone every time his stun is off CD.


:pebb: = :MinorTotem::MinorTotem::RunesOfTheBlight: (Teammate gets :Courier:) :Bottle: couriered down to you at 1:30, you can now combo due to 2 x :MinorTotem: Get blood lust easily. Begin runing, on haste and invis you gank, save for your :Portalkey:. You should get it around level 7-8, you can now one shot anyone below 800hp on the enemy team. Two kills, you have your :Marchers: , work towards :NomesWisdom: , finish your :Steamboots:

Now it all depends on who needs to be kept down, as to what you buy.

[Padawanabee]

Portal Key after Bottle is alright. Most people in need of advice from a guide would probably do better in a side lane building something safer like bottle->Steamboots.

I added a short section on three basic routes to get your items in on the way to the core, since the section seemed a bit confusing when I read through it recently.

Put a couple meh Pebbles replays up. As soon as I find better ones I'll replace the ones I have, but I've gotten back into WoW and won't be looking too hard.

[ouTPut`]

Hey Pada.


After some smalltalk on forums and test in-game it seems that Stalagmite>Chuck deals more damage than when you Chuck then Stalagmite.

Just info for the guide.

[Padawanabee]

Chuck always lasts 1 second, and Stalagmites does it's damage over 1 second. This makes it possible to do 2x damage on all four if your timing is right, which I'm assuming is what you're talking about. I've always preferred stalag first anyway, since it's much easier to land when other units are around.

[ouTPut`]

Chuck always lasts 1 second, and Stalagmites does it's damage over 1 second. This makes it possible to do 2x damage on all four if your timing is right, which I'm assuming is what you're talking about. I've always preferred stalag first anyway, since it's much easier to land when other units are around.


I was too under the impression that no matter what both combinations would be nearly if not exacly the same damage, however a large part of every discussion says the opposite, might wanna get some insider knowledge if possible to be certain.

[TribalShaman]

output is right. I used to think it didn't matter also, but I did quite a bit of testing in practise to make sure. No matter how many times you try it, even with the quickest possible button presses you can possibly do, Stalagmites > Chuck will always do more damage.

Read this (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showpost.php?p=691282&postcount=31) post in this (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=50836) thread.

[TriPoison]

What does stag into chuck mean? does it mean stag then chuck, or chuck then stag into them?

i.e. what is the order?

[Chopsticks1]

What does stag into chuck mean? does it mean stag then chuck, or chuck then stag into them?

i.e. what is the order?

Use Stalagmites, then Chuck.

[NoskillzNils]

you forgot to mention the 120 dmg dealt to enemy heroes ;D (when you throw them with chuck, your only showing the 60dmg dealt to ALLIED units)
also i think elders parasite is a nice attackspeed boost, also your base dmg is skyhigh so the 17% lifesteal aint a waste :=)

[phunkenstein]

Use Stalagmites, then Chuck.

You could be fast like chu` (look him up). He chucks and stalags the ground where the hero will land pretty much instantly, its ridiculous how fast he does it. He's probably the best Pebbles in the game.

I just wish Centaur was in HoN. I remember games where I followed Tiny everywhere and when he saw an enemy, he chucked me in to them, I stomped while tiny stunned them and we blasted everybody. Good times.

[Ithiel1]

Very,very , nice guide , and had some laughs with " You can toss an enemy into a group of allies for fun" .

[F34Re]

That's weird.. I was sure throw targets could only be enemies.. huh I'll have to check that out for myself. Does anyone else seem to think this or just little ol' me? :) to be clear I don't think I'm right but i thought last time i tried to throw an enemy backwards into my own dudes behind me.. it didn't take.. maybe i was never in range and that's what the prob was.. either way, nice guide, I used to be going a mix of abilities to try to compensate for his crap stats and make going up to the creep line to last hit less horrible but i guess that's what mana pots are for early game until you can get sustainable mana. i just played a game laning w/ WS vs succi and chronos.. succi i'm pretty sure went stats and heal while chronos prob split his passives and b/c I got stalags and armor and not addressing chuck b/c i thought getting those would be a waste due to lack of mana.. w/out a gank from CD mid.. we put up the good fight but lost the lane. When i look back on this situation though.. i dont think it was entirely terrible to go his armor considering succi has her DoTs and this is the upside to peb's imo pretty bad passive. nevertheless my clansmen assured me afterwards that things would have been different. although i still think that combo straight up sucked to go against.

[inspas]

fail fail fail :D
Best build trust me i play pebbles for long time :D
1? Talisman of Exile + RoB
2? Enhanced Marchers
3? Ring of Sorcery
4? Firebrand (buy this one first cause it gives mov. speed + attack speed) + Icebrand = Frostburn
5? Warpcleft
6? Sell the Tasliman of Exile and buy one of these: Abyssal Skull or Runed Axe
7? Runed Axe or Abysall Skull (if u have bought Abyssal Skull first buy Runed Axe now)
8? Charged Hammer (Warpcleft u already bought it from point 5? u need Thunderclaw to finish it)
9? At least sell the Ring of Sorcery and buy 1 of these 3: Brutalizer, Riftshards or Behemoth's Heart, i prefer the brutalizer cause its funny too see a Pebbles attacking with an insane speed and stun at the same time! U saw people saying like: 'WTF?!' or kill the entire team like i do and...CONCEDE?! ahahah

GG! :D

P.S. Pebbles (with this build) vs Magebane...Pebbles wins with a big difference ma friends!


I just wish Centaur was in HoN. I remember games where I followed Tiny everywhere and when he saw an enemy, he chucked me in to them, I stomped while tiny stunned them and we blasted everybody. Good times.

Man do this: Pebbles + Pestilence = GG in a lane! Trust me lol!

[Kcolraw]

fail fail fail :D
Best build trust me i play pebbles for long time :D
1? Talisman of Exile + RoB
2? Enhanced Marchers
3? Ring of Sorcery
4? Firebrand (buy this one first cause it gives mov. speed + attack speed) + Icebrand = Frostburn
5? Warpcleft
6? Sell the Tasliman of Exile and buy one of these: Abyssal Skull or Runed Axe
7? Runed Axe or Abysall Skull (if u have bought Abyssal Skull first buy Runed Axe now)
8? Charged Hammer (Warpcleft u already bought it from point 5? u need Thunderclaw to finish it)
9? At least sell the Ring of Sorcery and buy 1 of these 3: Brutalizer, Riftshards or Behemoth's Heart, i prefer the brutalizer cause its funny too see a Pebbles attacking with an insane speed and stun at the same time! U saw people saying like: 'WTF?!' or kill the entire team like i do and...CONCEDE?! ahahah

GG! :D

P.S. Pebbles (with this build) vs Magebane...Pebbles wins with a big difference ma friends!



Man do this: Pebbles + Pestilence = GG in a lane! Trust me lol!

pebbles as a carry

no port key

right bro

^THIS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IS WHY YOU SHOULDN"T PLAY EASY MODE

[Kitsunesama]

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned peb's best lane budy, lil old :blac:.


Here is how I play when I'm with my friend:

I focus on building the Ring of Sorcery so it will benefit us both as early on as possible. As such, I buy the Ring, 2 health pots, and a Hatchet from the start. He buy's ring of the teacher, which gives us mana regen and, more importantly, armor. I end up having like 5 or 6 Armor at level 1/2, which covers a major flaw of peb's at the start.

He lets me get all the last hits i can, and I will get them over the opponents with the exception of deadwood. Once I have the Brain after farming up 1k, we then start to be very, very aggressive.

Blacksmith's abilities are synergistic with pebbles:

A long duration snare/dot that lowers magic armor.

A *ranged* almost instant cast stun.

A movement speed boost and IAS boost.


In this set up, fast farming a RoS gives us both mana, making it a better team alternative to Nome's, even if my personal mana regeneration is not as superior.

After the RoS i focus on making the Ghost marchers. I do this before attempting to farm up portal key simply for the fact that as long as im ganking with :blac:, my movement speed is going to be enough. He snares, possibly stuns while i get in range for a chuck, or ill stalagmite then rush in for chuck and he finishes with stun.

As long as I have the boots i pretty much am garentied to get the hero kills + easy open lane farming to get portal key, after which point the :blac: + :pebb: combination is truly devastating.

[Verkku]

No Codex in luxury ):

[TsubasaOzora]

:pebb: w/ :Portalkey: + Stalagmites + Chuck + :Codex: = FUN

[inspas]

pebbles as a carry

no port key

right bro

^THIS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IS WHY YOU SHOULDN"T PLAY EASY MODE

Hmm sorry man but with MY BUILD i dont need portal for nothing LOL


I'm shocked that no one has mentioned peb's best lane budy, lil old :blac:.


Here is how I play when I'm with my friend:

I focus on building the Ring of Sorcery so it will benefit us both as early on as possible. As such, I buy the Ring, 2 health pots, and a Hatchet from the start. He buy's ring of the teacher, which gives us mana regen and, more importantly, armor. I end up having like 5 or 6 Armor at level 1/2, which covers a major flaw of peb's at the start.

He lets me get all the last hits i can, and I will get them over the opponents with the exception of deadwood. Once I have the Brain after farming up 1k, we then start to be very, very aggressive.

Blacksmith's abilities are synergistic with pebbles:

A long duration snare/dot that lowers magic armor.

A *ranged* almost instant cast stun.

A movement speed boost and IAS boost.


In this set up, fast farming a RoS gives us both mana, making it a better team alternative to Nome's, even if my personal mana regeneration is not as superior.

After the RoS i focus on making the Ghost marchers. I do this before attempting to farm up portal key simply for the fact that as long as im ganking with :blac:, my movement speed is going to be enough. He snares, possibly stuns while i get in range for a chuck, or ill stalagmite then rush in for chuck and he finishes with stun.

As long as I have the boots i pretty much am garentied to get the hero kills + easy open lane farming to get portal key, after which point the :blac: + :pebb: combination is truly devastating.

And i already try that combination and i agree with u! Pebbles with frenzy and MY BUILD OMG MODE! xD 3 stuns + 1 slow + attack speed = GG :D

[Hi]

gg guide

[Relinquish`]

Hey man, nice guide.
After reading this i joined a pub, and stomped it flat out ;D
My build were starting with bottle since i soloed mid then i went for steamboots and lastly my beloved portal key.
Raped early game, got my frostfield, wich worked very very well due to the slow and mana, and ended up with a score of 20/1.
Thanks for the guide, helped me alot..;)
Btw stalagmites should be renamed "Norris" and change his sounds so that when you chuck and then "norris" them pebbles screams :pebb:CHUUUCK NOORRIS:pebb: with his arnold badass voice! Should also cange his animations so that he has a beard with a fist hidden beneath.
Again, great guide.:D:D:D

[Xiftr]

Hey man, nice guide.
After reading this i joined a pub, and stomped it flat out ;D
My build were starting with bottle since i soloed mid then i went for steamboots and lastly my beloved portal key.
Raped early game, got my frostfield, wich worked very very well due to the slow and mana, and ended up with a score of 20/1.
Thanks for the guide, helped me alot..;)
Btw stalagmites should be renamed "Norris" and change his sounds so that when you chuck and then "norris" them pebbles screams :pebb:CHUUUCK NOORRIS:pebb: with his arnold badass voice! Should also cange his animations so that he has a beard with a fist hidden beneath.
Again, great guide.:D:D:D +1 for the Chuck Norris reference.

[dropdead]

nice guide

[netho07]

Hey Pada.


After some smalltalk on forums and test in-game it seems that Stalagmite>Chuck deals more damage than when you Chuck then Stalagmite.

Just info for the guide.

Stalagmite>Chuck deals more damage but... Chuck>Stalagmites can be used for team combos..

And also RoS is more appropriate to use in 5v5 cause when the team clashes ur team have more manas than the other team

[BlacRyu]

Looks good, Pebbles is my best hero, and this guide pretty much follows my build almost exactly. I just start out with the +3 int item instead of the mana potions, and I always go for Arcane ring first with maybe a power supply and loggers hatchet before it. Once he get's arcane ring he can pretty much spam his skills 24/7, which makes farming a breeze, not to mention how much it helps the team. After that blink of course, and then on to whatever, I like getting Daemonic since I like playin' the support role and an extra 10 armor difference between the teams is crazy. I'll grab a Nome's or Abyssal after that if my team still doesn't have any Ring o the Teacher based items and proceed to laugh in the enemy carry's face.

Here's my most recent match, 1650+ psr: 29312145

I've yet to solo mid with him though, I need to try that sometime soon.

[Padawanabee]

Stalagmite>Chuck deals more damage but... Chuck>Stalagmites can be used for team combos..

And also RoS is more appropriate to use in 5v5 cause when the team clashes ur team have more manas than the other team

Nome's gives a powerful aura with multiple benefits including mana regen. It is slightly superior for both you and your team, but it does cost a bit more.

[Angerflst]

idk if this was mentioned but i believe that at lvl 7 when u have stala and chuck at lvl 3 and one skill point, that point should be thrown into chuck because u will deal more damage at lvl 7.

edit: 50 damage to be exact.

[arieLOL]

fail guide, pebbles is more effective the quicker you get him into battle, wasting time building a nomes/ring before a port key is outright dumb. The portkey also allows you a perfect combo every single time if you know what you are doing, way too many people fail at pebbles because they stun from a distance, run in and then toss.

[wala]

So your teammates just dick around while you try to set up a gank?

There are arguements for both items, but I would go nome's because it allows me to stay and constantly gank without relying on bottle (if at all) to regen mana.

You can come from the woods, chuck an ally in (pesti, andro), or start with and invis/haste rune. Portal key certainly makes it easier, but is not necessary.

[s3Rgio]

(Stalagmites x2 = 600 magic damage) + (Chuck does 300+195=495)
600+495


Why Stalagmites x2 ?? Did i miss something?

[RogerDodger]

Why Stalagmites x2 ?? Did i miss something?
Yeah you did, the tooltip

[Thehummel]

Why Stalagmites x2 ?? Did i miss something?

Unit who is affected by Chuck takes double damage from Stalagmites ;)

[VonL`]

fail fail fail :D
Best build trust me i play pebbles for long time :D
1? Talisman of Exile + RoB
2? Enhanced Marchers
3? Ring of Sorcery
4? Firebrand (buy this one first cause it gives mov. speed + attack speed) + Icebrand = Frostburn
5? Warpcleft
6? Sell the Tasliman of Exile and buy one of these: Abyssal Skull or Runed Axe
7? Runed Axe or Abysall Skull (if u have bought Abyssal Skull first buy Runed Axe now)
8? Charged Hammer (Warpcleft u already bought it from point 5? u need Thunderclaw to finish it)
9? At least sell the Ring of Sorcery and buy 1 of these 3: Brutalizer, Riftshards or Behemoth's Heart, i prefer the brutalizer cause its funny too see a Pebbles attacking with an insane speed and stun at the same time! U saw people saying like: 'WTF?!' or kill the entire team like i do and...CONCEDE?! ahahah

GG! :D

P.S. Pebbles (with this build) vs Magebane...Pebbles wins with a big difference ma friends!



Man do this: Pebbles + Pestilence = GG in a lane! Trust me lol!

No. This is stupid.


Anyways, I'll drop my way to build pebbles, which I started to use just a couple of weeks ago.

Start out with:

Logger's Hatchet x 1 // Lasthitting made simple
Runes of the Blight x 3 (One stack) // Enough lanehealing if you play safe
Minor Totem x 4 // +4 int needed for comboing on level 2 plus strength for more hp and slightly better lasthitting and agi bonus which grants a minor armor bonus

Either go mid or lane with a proper partner (Andromeda, Glacius etc. Especially Glacius is a wicked sick lanemate)

IF you are mid: Farm a bottle as fast as possible, grab every rune possible.
IF you are on lane: Farm a RoS

- then -

Proceed to getting normal Marchers. By now you should be ~level 6, so gank your lane/farm until you are level 8 (unless you are mid, in this case you should gank whenever you get a good rune [haste/invis are the best, tho depending on how close the sidelane is pushed against your tower you can gank with DD/Illus too])

Gank until you got a pkey. Depending on how good you gank you should have this around 16 min.

After you have a pkey you can probably gank every low-hp hero, mostly ints. So go nuts and get cash for the Steamboots. Make them int if you were mid and have a bottle, and leave them on str if you have a RoS.

If I went for RoS I generally get a Daemonic Breastplate and if I went for Bottle I buy a Frostfield Plate. Keep spending most of your time ganking while you still can oneshot people, after this you shouldbe the initiator/blink in after a better initiator. A game as pebbles generally ends by mid-phase, since you can make most enemies cry blood when you have the pkey.

EDIT:

I only play pebbles in lower pubs/MM, I dont feel him being really viable in higher ratings versus players with actual brains. Therefore this build is mostly viable in games you play to "carry" the team to a win.

[Padawanabee]

Nomes is the better buy than RoS in just about every situation. Unless I had a mana-intensive team and someone else had already gotten Nomes, basically.

I still prefer the side lanes to mid solo pebbles. I just generally have a higher success rate doing double stuns and farming the side lane than soloing mid. That's generally because soloing mid 1-4 and getting the bottle and FB quickly require pretty much flawless play, and sooner or later I end up making a mistake and getting myself killed.

[VonL`]

Nomes is the better buy than RoS in just about every situation. Unless I had a mana-intensive team and someone else had already gotten Nomes, basically.

I still prefer the side lanes to mid solo pebbles. I just generally have a higher success rate doing double stuns and farming the side lane than soloing mid. That's generally because soloing mid 1-4 and getting the bottle and FB quickly require pretty much flawless play, and sooner or later I end up making a mistake and getting myself killed.

I have never been a big fan of the RoS either. But I cant ignore the fact that it's pretty rushable and enables you to gank more earlier. Reasons for this is in my last post, the edit.

[Didiuz]

In so gonna get flamed but i find codex a viable item on Pebbles if uve done really well early n wanna be sure to b'able to one hit everyone

[ElementUser]

In so gonna get flamed but i find codex a viable item on Pebbles if uve done really well early n wanna be sure to b'able to one hit everyone

chu` went Codex on his 38-2 Pebbles in his first Matchmaking game. Codex is useful for more burst damage anyway

[thugwaffle]

Codex would be good it it didn't cost almost 3k and 180 mana to use.

I only get it when I'm completely dominating.

Then again, if someone else gets nomes and you already have pkey I don't see what else to get besides some stats.

[PainRzr]

matter of fact, pebbles is an AMAZING dps dealer late game.

lets assume the pebbles in question has maxed out his skills, and has these items:

1. portal key
2. ring of sorcery
3. ghost marchers
4. speed armour (4got the name)
5. mask of madness
6. riftshard

pop in with portal, chucks and stags = 1000+ dmg. activate mask and just hammer away with ur stupendous 250+ base dmg + rift shard +75 dmg = 325< auto attack with 2.2x crits happening at 25% chance rate.thats absolutely mind-boggling dps dmg.

[VonL`]

matter of fact, pebbles is an AMAZING dps dealer late game.

lets assume the pebbles in question has maxed out his skills, and has these items:

1. portal key
2. ring of sorcery
3. ghost marchers
4. speed armour (4got the name)
5. mask of madness
6. riftshard

pop in with portal, chucks and stags = 1000+ dmg. activate mask and just hammer away with ur stupendous 250+ base dmg + rift shard +75 dmg = 325< auto attack with 2.2x crits happening at 25% chance rate.thats absolutely mind-boggling dps dmg.

Sure, pretty sure that it will melt anyone, 1v1.

When you have these items you should be in lategame, unless you raped their faces, which means they have most likely lost the game already.

In a 5v5-scenario:

You blink in before your teammates, combo, pop EP and start beating the crap out of your target. Enemy disabler disables you, enemy carry kills you since you're taking 20% more damage. Now it's a 4v5 in their favor, since your combo cant oneshot **** when you're in lategame.

[Drakie]

I was wondering, if you chuck a creep on top of a hero while he's taking dmg from stalag, does that do double dmg?

or do you really have to chuck the person you want double dmg to take?

[Dragnmn]

AFAIK, the person currently in the air takes double stalag damage, so you do have to chuck that hero up.

[Padawanabee]

I was wondering, if you chuck a creep on top of a hero while he's taking dmg from stalag, does that do double dmg?

or do you really have to chuck the person you want double dmg to take?

Stalagmites will only deal 2x to the one in the air from Chuck.

[Gredenko]

Should consider adding Codex as one of his recommended items. Because sometimes, chasing just isn't a viable option, but you really do want the kill on the bugger (like say... you wanted to ninja kill Jereziah right before a team fight).

[SilverStars]

I laughed unnecessarily hard at the "You rock" pun and the after-Chuck pose pebbles did.

Anyway, is it necessary to queue up chuck after stalagmites if you want to do massive damage signature combo or is there a small time frame where you can do it?

[Padawanabee]

Shift-queuing Pebbles combo doesn't work as well as it would if you used the spells on your own. You just have to Chuck (on the right unit) as soon as you can after using Stalagmites, which shouldn't be hard if the enemy has been stunned.

[RogerDodger]

Skill build is wrong

You should be getting Chuck maxed at level 7 (1 2 1 2 1 2 2 1) since at level 7 maxing chuck first gives more benefits.


Chuck does 90 more damage in the "wombo combo" at level 4 while stalagmites only gives 80
Chuck is better for harassment due to the lower CD and higher rarnge (if you have a regen rune for example)
Chuck's range increases and stalagmites' doesn't

[frickendevil]

Nice guide, except I despise people who build the mana ring on him first, considering it costs as much as the blink stick, and blink will get you more kills. Especially as advice for pub players who aren't great farmers, getting blink at level 13/14 means you are losing a significant amount of what would have been easy kills.

[Padawanabee]

Updated with the retail changes to Nomes.

I now fully advocate simply going bottle->Steamboots (int)->Portal Key, since both Nomes and Arcane are silly items to get on Pebbles.

[ElementUser]

Erm...


He is a perfect port of Tiny, from DotA. Every number and aesthetic choice is exactly the same as his DotA counterpart.

Craggy Exterior > Slab Skin

:/

For Chuck + Stalagmites:

This has the added bonus of both holding them down near the allied damage dealer, and getting the Stalagmites/Chuck double damage bonus.You have a 0.05s timeframe to get the double damage from all 4 ticks - near impossible in a real game. Realistically if you can Chuck to ally, chances are he'll be >500 units away and Stalagmites takes 0.2s + travel time to impact, so the most you'll realistlcally get is 1-2 instances of Stalagmites doubled (not even - usually 0 if you toss greater than that distance)

Also, where's my Codex? Gogo NA instagib style.

EDIT: And what's this?


Your goal in your lane is to obtain 2200 (2800) gold in the first 10 minutes. Yes, that can be hard to do. That's why it's a goal. With this money you will buy Marchers and either Ring of Sorcery or Nome's Wisdom, based on your preference. Once you have boots, mana regen, and 3-4 levels in each of your nukes, you go ganking, and you do nothing but gank for the rest of the game.

Blasphemy for both items IMO :(

[Padawanabee]

I never noticed the first part, I'll change that. Though to be fair, neither skill is all that memorable.

Ah, I did miss a nomes mention. I went through it really fast since I have to fix all of my guides, thanks.

[ElementUser]

I never noticed the first part, I'll change that. Though to be fair, neither skill is all that memorable.

It's just funny in DotA when you're trying to land that last hit on Tiny

*stun*

*Tiny gets away*

:)

[Meuhtrog]

Awesome guide, it makes me become a good pebbles !

[GregerMoek]

Funny build I saw in a pub that actually worked.
:pebb:+:Portalkey:+:ElderParasite:+:Hellflower:+:H arkonsBlade:+:Steamboots:+:Riftshards:rank1.

I like your guide though. :)

[RogerDodger]

When will you update the clearly inferior skillbuild.

[Padawanabee]

I don't get Chuck at 7, and I'm not going to suggest it in my guide.

[GodStopper]

I preffer Chuck at lvl 7 because u can do more damage if the target doesnt die with ur combo Chuck has 12 cd and staglamites has 20 so 300 damage, 1100 range 12 seconds ill take that lvl 7 and chuck lvl 3 does 260 and lvl 4 does 300, its 40 damage the difference. and 80 since u think u can land ur combo perfectly.

[Sorreah]

Battery + bottle combined with Steamboots for abusing stat switches provide more than enough mana until you have your Portal Key.

You're a caster and it's stupid IMO to build items with a focus on dealing melee damage. Depending on how the game is going, get Frostfield Plate (rush the +10 armor component, complete this whenever you feel the need to add another 200 dmg to your combo), Behemoth's Heart, Sheepstick, Codex if they didn't go for magic armor, Mock if you don't have a carrier for an increase in your combo's damage.

[RogerDodger]

I don't get Chuck at 7, and I'm not going to suggest it in my guide.
Give me a good reason as to why you wouldn't, if this is a premium guide you should see to it that the information is accurate, and chuck being maxed first has every benefit over stalags being maxed first.

[Sorreah]

Give me a good reason as to why you wouldn't, if this is a premium guide you should see to it that the information is accurate, and chuck being maxed first has every benefit over stalags being maxed first.

If the guide writer stays on his lane up to level 7 with a lane partner (not uncommon for Pebbles players, who want to maximize their combo damage before roaming), realistically he will only have mana for one of his skill, and if you're only going to use one skill to get a kill with a lanemate, stun makes more sense, thus you'd want to maximize it's damage.

Even though I think you're right, I can see the arguments for the other side.

It's such a small difference anyway, not worth arguing over. :)

[AdolfSlither]

You need to max your stalagmites first, then chuck, 1 lvl of ult, passive and stats all way down

[TheHammer3]

Who else was saying to themselves 'yeah, good advice haha' right before they read the 'durr hurr good advice in the guide itself'?

[Verkku]

You should start with 2 totems, 2 marks of novice, a health potion and a set of runes.

Then you purchase a bottle and marchers, save for portkey. That's it, max chuck over stun, chuck is better.

Later on you don't turn the marks into anything you simply sell them when you are making items like daemonic breastplate. Items like talisman of the exile are a waste of money.

[sHoWTiMe]

I lol'd when I read 'pebbles CAN solo mid, but only if your opponent is very bad'.

starting items solo mid

1 runes of blight
2 or 5 totems

-> ferry bottle quickly as possible

[Schwopzi]

I lol'd when I read 'pebbles CAN solo mid, but only if your opponent is very bad'.

starting items solo mid

1 runes of blight
2 or 5 totems

-> ferry bottle quickly as possible

Don't forget: 2 totems = combo at lvl 3, 4+ totems/stats = combo at lvl 2.

[Duker]

Blood Chalice update plox?

[Loki]

Oh, and never toss an enemy Behemoth into a group of allies. You would not believe all the hate I had to read through after I stopped laughing.


I lol'd

[axDest]

Good Guide

[Nuf]

What do you think about the new boots and Blood Chalice for early game on Pebbles? I tried it for a few games. Worked out quite nicely.

[Dragnmn]

What do you think about the new boots and Blood Chalice for early game on Pebbles? I tried it for a few games. Worked out quite nicely.

Blood Chalice is core on him IMO, his main problem is mana and he shouldn't get hit (much) while comboing. Striders I disagree with, he is slow as it is and phase allows you to get close without a portal key (all they have to do with Striders is attack you and you're back to your 335MS).

I don't play Pebbles though, so this is all theorycraft.

[Katboi]

Blood Chalice is a little too awesome on him not to mention.

[Dyno]

I tried striders on him last night and loved them. They let you reliably gank even without a portal key, as long as you know how to abuse fog of war.

Unless they have godlike reflexes (and I'm not saying such players don't exist), by the time they hit you it's going to be too late. And 95% of players' first instinct is to run anyway, which isn't going to do you any good against a 435 ms hero.