Fenrir's Fang

[Ragnarok17]

Fenrir's Fang

Major Totem (540)
Major Totem (540)
GlowStone (1200)
Recipe (1200)
Total Cost: 3480

Frostwolf's Skull

Fenrir's Fang (3480)
Blessed Orb (2100)
Recipe (570)
Total Cost: 6150


Preface

I like the new Frostwolf/Fenrir's Fang. However, the 10% and 15% atk slow and movement speed slow are too good for a 3XXX gp item... the real reward for building the pesky Frostwolf should be at the end, and now that it's been made it even easier to build, with an award much earlier than the old Frostwolf's, Fenrir's Fang needs a nerf.

After doing the math, the movement speed debuff is fine. It looks very good but after doing the math, it's just about right: Good to help chasing just by a bit except for may be a couple heroes that may use this very well, but yet you can't easily keep them slowed until they die... a 370 ms hero chasing a debuffed 370 ms hero (so his ms is around 315), will take about 7 seconds for each hit, considering they run in a straight line, but the debuff only lasts 3 seconds, so if the hero doesn't have any other chasing utility, then they won't be able to catch up to the enemy.

But if you have a hero like Armadon or such who is good at chasing... the slow will be way too good XD, and if you have someone like Dark Lady, you can jump across everyone in a team fight and everyone will be debuffed.

The total amount of stats a Major Totem gives is 12, just like a Bracelet... and they're both around the same price. I'm afraid it will be way too easy to replace the average 2 Bracelets with 2 Major Totems instead during a game. The Glow Stone is always worth the cost, and the recipe is too low to have to work hard for... it will be too easy of an item to get, and can become a very common item to get for any hero who needs survivability, as the stats it gives are very cheap and easy to build.

The Suggestion

So, I suggest that one of the Major Totems be removed from the recipe, and instead increase the recipe by about 540 gp to make up for it. This way, you can still farm the items for Fenrir's Fang relatively easy compared to the old Frostwolf, but will have to work a little more for the recipe to get the slow. (The stats will remain the same).

[Forfeit]

I'll support this.

I used to feel a sense of accomplishment when I made a Frostwolf's Skull (usually on Soul Stealer and Valkyrie). They've kind of cheapened it.

I'd actually like to see it go back to being 2 Ulti Orbs (forget the HoN name).

[Ragnarok17]

Thanks :).

Actually, may be the recipe should stay the same, but the slow should be removed? And lower the recipe cost so the total is around 2500... then that item could be used in future recipes... like may be it would be the base item for Tablet of Command, and the recipe could be a cheap one around 200 gp so the item can still be built easily... the Glowstone would provide flexibility for any support heroes that usually need to get Glowstone anyways for the good stat boost and/or for needed recipe items. May be I'll make another thread XD

[Zakharov]

Give the item a few days of testing before reflexively asking for it to be nerfed. I think this is probably worse than Nullfire on most heroes who'd want a slow effect.

[NyRe]

15% slow is only marginally better than Slither's 10% and we all know Slither never catches people with just his passive. Considering that slows stack multiplicatively, it's not even close to godly with any other slow source.

Just the slow costs 1200 gold, it's not nearly underpriced, I would even say it's subpar. -10 AS is neglible in most cases. You people should really try this out before jumping on conclusions and screaming "Imba imba!". This item gives a lot of hp and mana, but on any DPS hero it does not give DPS. It's too expensive for a pure survival item as well. It's too expensive to build on pure supports who don't need damage at all.

This item has quite a small niche of usefulness and it certainly should only be built with an aim to grade to Frostwolf later.

[twincannon]

shrug, I think Fenrir's recipe is fine, it may be easy to "rush" it but if you're rushing it then you're probably missing the point anyway (rushing it on a carry = fail, you just spent a ton of gold for 15 damage; rushing it on a support = fail, where's your courier/wards/meks/sheepstick; rushing it on ganker = fail, where's your bkb, etc etc.). There is basically just no reason to ever rush this item thus I can't see a need to nerf the components.

The problem was (imo) that Frostwolf Skull was always an endgame luxury item, but even it being luxury, the overhead investment was so huge and there was such a long delay before getting the actual effect. Now it just means you start to get the bonus earlier, or you can simply build Fenrir's only and go for something else if you don't feel the full slow is needed.

[Ragnarok17]

15% slow is only marginally better than Slither's 10% and we all know Slither never catches people with just his passive. Considering that slows stack multiplicatively, it's not even close to godly with any other slow source.

Just the slow costs 1200 gold, it's not nearly underpriced, I would even say it's subpar. -10 AS is neglible in most cases. You people should really try this out before jumping on conclusions and screaming "Imba imba!". This item gives a lot of hp and mana, but on any DPS hero it does not give DPS. It's too expensive for a pure survival item as well. It's too expensive to build on pure supports who don't need damage at all.

This item has quite a small niche of usefulness and it certainly should only be built with an aim to grade to Frostwolf later.
__________________


I like this post, and you've helped clear up my mind a bit. Although you didn't specify that I was crying "imba", I'd just like to say that I'm not doing what you suggested XD.

But yes actually, good point about the low DPS this item gives, and that those who would do good with this item's slow in conjunction with the own hero's chasing utilities usually need more damage to help them, and not survivability, as then they would not do as much damage as they would need to before they get away. I didn't realize this until I thought more about individual hero examples.

[GeoRusH]

Don't think it's right, because expensive recipes can make people go crazy about losing their money. Think game must be the most dynamical as possible, if the other recipes are too expensive comparing to this, so lower the other recipes. The game must have adrenaline.

[OrangeJuice]

Thanks :).

Actually, may be the recipe should stay the same, but the slow should be removed? And lower the recipe cost so the total is around 2500... then that item could be used in future recipes... like may be it would be the base item for Tablet of Command, and the recipe could be a cheap one around 200 gp so the item can still be built easily... the Glowstone would provide flexibility for any support heroes that usually need to get Glowstone anyways for the good stat boost and/or for needed recipe items. May be I'll make another thread XD
The slow was kinda the point of making Fenrir's Fang. S2 wanted to make Frostwolf Skull easier to get midgame. If theres no slow then Frostwolf should just go back to its old recipe

[Ragnarok17]

Mm I see.

Well anyway, old thread is old.

I guess it can be closed now.

[coolstorybro]

Fang sounds better and it makes more sense in building skull with fang.
Having the slow come from a previously built rune instead of throwing icebrand in there makes more sense