Officer's Banner

[Gedok]

Can't really get a picture on how this will look like, instead I have a YouTube video. This is a trailer of the first Savage game by S2games, just watch the first few seconds: The banner on the Nomad's back is the item I'm referring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI2vAAfxL9Y

What is it?
Officer's Banner is a one-time use item you place on the ground. You'll most likely use it on a lane since it affects creeps only. The idea is extremely simple: When a creep gets into the banner's radius, they receive a large movement speed buff for several seconds.

The purpose behind this is to make pushing with creeps faster, since many times we've been in situations where we need to wait for creeps to catch up, thus stalling the game. Not to mention this would be a unique item to the HoN metagame, since there is currently no item designed around manipulating waves of creeps.

What are the stats?

Cost: 110
Radius: 500

Applies "Officer's Will" to any allied creeps for 6 seconds within the radius. This item is destroyed after 120 seconds or until an enemy destroys it. Creeps enhanced by Officer's Will cannot be enhanced by it again for 12 seconds.

Officer's Will
+150% movement speed buff
+1 Armor
+100% slow resistance

[Wratchet]

I like the idea. It seems effective, yet balanced, and I love team-oriented items.

I don't see an issue with having a lane full of banners, since it is a visible destructible ward with only a 500 radius effect.

Got my vote.

[Gedok]

I like the idea. It seems effective, yet balanced, and I love team-oriented items.

I don't see an issue with having a lane full of banners, since it is a visible destructible ward with only a 500 radius effect.

Got my vote.


This is true, but remember you can easily place this at the front of your barracks so they don't get destroyed. Obviously later in the game is becomes less effective when towers are destroyed. That is my only concern with the limit.

[Wratchet]

This is true, but remember you can easily place this at the front of your barracks so they don't get destroyed. Obviously later in the game is becomes less effective when towers are destroyed. That is my only concern with the limit.
True, but the buff only lasts for 6 seconds, and it does not make creep waves spawn faster, just move faster. I see it as a desperate push item "while we have them dead" sort of a thing. I really don't see a problem with "power". In addition, a 120 second duration only affects 4 creep waves.

At worst, using a fast hero, you could get a "double wave". Do you really think that's too much?

[Gedok]

Noticed a few yes votes, rather curious what people think besides "I agree"

[Athos]

D sham...loves this thing!

[kamimage]

i think it should have i bit more to it, like increases mobs attack speed or armor or something.

[serrath]

I like the thought that you can hurry up a push with a ward like this. It just makes sense to me. I don't know that people will use it though. Perhaps if it increased their armor for those 6 seconds by 1 or 2 people would see it as a something that wouldn't just make it easier for your enemies to farm your creeps.

I very much like the idea. I think it oughta have the "ward" name in it, seeing as that's what the other deployables are called, and maybe it would increase the armor or vision range of the creeps, too, but as far as the concept goes, SOLID. I would definitely use this just to increase the creep speed, I just can't say I would be smart enough to carry one with me every push.

[Jean_Damme]

What about CD?will it have buying CD for example?Or ordinary CD for placing the ward?In fact ,will it be any CD at all regarding this item?Otherwise...an interesting idea.Good job!

[serrath]

No need for a cooldown since it doesn't increase the rate at which creeps spawn. It would just have all your creeps walking faster. Used repeatedly, it would have basically no effect. Think it out for yourself. Remember that creeps spawn at constant intervals.

The only purpose is to move creeps along a lane faster. Obviously, combat will stop this, so it's only truly useful when pushing a lane. (So you can push further without them reaching you, less lag time between creep waves.)

This essentially nullifies any argument favoring backdooring.

[Gedok]

No need for a cooldown since it doesn't increase the rate at which creeps spawn. It would just have all your creeps walking faster. Used repeatedly, it would have basically no effect. Think it out for yourself. Remember that creeps spawn at constant intervals.

The only purpose is to move creeps along a lane faster. Obviously, combat will stop this, so it's only truly useful when pushing a lane. (So you can push further without them reaching you, less lag time between creep waves.)

This essentially nullifies any argument favoring backdooring.

That's pretty much it, although I wouldn't mind the idea of faster attack speed. Unfortunately such a concept hasn't never really been tested, so going too much might screw up the balance, while going too little would make it worthless.

[serrath]

Attack speed would make your creeps kill theirs faster. That makes it harder for you to last hit. I was thinking something that would prevent you from having to wait for another wave, so armor made sense. Not enough that the lane will push itself through a tower, just enough to make the creeps harder for the other team to clear if they want to stop your push.

[SyKot]

Interesting item. Could make for some lanes advancing on their own while your team focus on others.
Maybe put a limit on shops like Wards?

[serrath]

The lanes wouldn't push themselves. It would not have any sort of effect like that on your creeps.

Think about it this way:
We define the "middle" of the map to be a line connecting the point in each lane where the creeps fight. Think Caldavar, it's basically a diagonal line across the map.

Creeps are always equal timespaces away. Let's call the period between creep spawnings T.

Creeps move at constant speed when not fighting. We'll call that speed S.

The banner would cause the creeps to move at let's say 2S.

So the distance between two creep waves is S x T. The distance between creeps with the banner would be 2 x S x T.

So if left to their own devices, assuming each creep fights at the same strength, this would just move the "center" of the lane towards the enemy's base some constant distance that would not change after any number of waves (this distance depends only on the speed difference between creeps), if left constantly deployed in all lanes.

Using this on all lanes would only effectively increase the distance of the "middle" of the map from your base and decrease the effective distance of the "middle" of the map from the enemy base.

This would NOT push the lane by itself, since the enemy creeps would spawn just as fast, it would just advance that line since your creeps would cover more distance before encountering the enemy creeps. This extra distance covered WILL REMAIN CONSTANT.

Similarly, this gives your creeps no advantage against towers compared with the other creeps. Thus, the other creeps are JUST AS LIKELY TO PUSH A LANE AS YOUR CREEPS.


Therefore, the effect of this item without players to aid the creeps in battle is ZERO.

So stop worrying about it, it's a perfect idea.

[kamimage]

Attack speed would make your creeps kill theirs faster. That makes it harder for you to last hit. I was thinking something that would prevent you from having to wait for another wave, so armor made sense. Not enough that the lane will push itself through a tower, just enough to make the creeps harder for the other team to clear if they want to stop your push.
i was thinking 2 armor an advantage, yes, but not anything close to over powered

[serrath]

i was thinking 2 armor an advantage, yes, but not anything close to over powered

Right. But even that might make it push the lane automatically, which is bad. (If you had the ward just on the edge of the "middle".)

So maybe just 1 armor or none. It's still an invaluable item. This should be getting more votes yes.

[Gedok]

Decided to give it +1 armor, which I think makes it a tiny more valuable. Just like the speed, it is a 6 second buff, so it won't be turning the tide.

[WSLaFleur]

Noticed a few yes votes, rather curious what people think besides "I agree"

There's not much more to think about, to be honest. This is a simple, harmless addition to HoN. It would be easy to implement and outside of very competitive play, probably not game-turning.

I can't see a reason not to vote yes, and I kind of resent you for it. It's just so simple it's almost trite.

[sigh]

+1

EDIT: Behemoth is a counter-pick to this item.

[Sniffle]

I love it. But 350 gold for one time use item? Buy 3 of em throughout the game and thats 1k already... I think it should be lowered a little. If you're trying to acknowledge a situation where you would get a tower kill and therefore be refunded, I don't think 350 gold is terribly worth it to wait an extra 6 seconds.

[Gedok]

I love it. But 350 gold for one time use item? Buy 3 of em throughout the game and thats 1k already... I think it should be lowered a little. If you're trying to acknowledge a situation where you would get a tower kill and therefore be refunded, I don't think 350 gold is terribly worth it to wait an extra 6 seconds.

Did not think of that, heavily reduced the cost then.

[OhBob]

Simple, but really usefull. Nice early game item for heroes such as nymphora, etc.

[kamimage]

1/2 bump 1/2 glad to see the +1 armor :)

[serrath]

Probably 200 would do it... Good item.

Get this some PR somehow.

[Mittsies]

T-UP for concept but could essentially be overpowered for certain heroes such as Jereziah/Dsham who could heal creeps. I'm not totally against that, though, just pointing it out.

[Gedok]

bump

[GGreenBass]

I'm totally on the fence in terms of number allowed on the field.

You could just stack them near the base of the barracks metagame and have your creeps push that much harder; all you need is a support hero whom's inventory doesn't matter all that much once they have their mana ring, or something alike.

I think a limit is necessary, as a winning team could abuse them with their extra gold, meaning turning the game around would be THAT much harder; as the people making the turn-around need their money for more important uses.

EDIT: Oh crap, I didn't realize it went away after a time. Make that more clear.
DOUBLE EDIT: Hold shift when you click to move your hero somewhere, it should look like THAT flag.

[Haasth]

Simple, but really usefull. Nice early game item for heroes such as nymphora, etc.

This pretty much. I think the item is solid. It's a good boost and not over the top for your creeps and should help boosting a lane, indeed.

Got my vote.

[Gedok]

Gave it an update again, more of a question. Should this item be in the outpost if it's ever implemented?

[Drunkwoecat]

I think of two things when I see this item. The alterac valley flag and the speed bot in enfos. T up


Suggestion: What about having it give a small life bonus...that lasts while in the aura?

[Jayzus]

I dont believe making creeps faster is a useful buff to warrant an item slot - I would support making the creeps have more armor or have more resistance to tower damage - perhaps make the item more expensive and give the creeps a damage buff?

The fact that people put so much effor tinto creep blocking in early game should show that if anything we should want the creeps to go slower early game!

[Gedok]

I dont believe making creeps faster is a useful buff to warrant an item slot - I would support making the creeps have more armor or have more resistance to tower damage - perhaps make the item more expensive and give the creeps a damage buff?

The fact that people put so much effor tinto creep blocking in early game should show that if anything we should want the creeps to go slower early game!

Well they are given +1 armor, but I don't want this item to be replacing plated boots (otherwise I would've used that buff!). As for item slots, not too worried since this is mainly a support item like wards. Support characters should have room for it.

I do admit it might need a buff, but I don't want to make the item make the creeps ridiciliously strong. The purpose behind this item is when a team starts pushing a lane, they place this ward down on that lane so the creeps begin a mass force much quicker instead of waiting for them to catch up.

[Homeblest]

I like the concept, i say apply it.

But i don't think it should be in the outpost, i don't see any use for it to be there since it can just be destroyed by your opponents (and the opponents creeps?)

Putting it in Supplies in the fountain shop would be awesome.

[Berend]

What about this as an adjustment to this item?

The effectiveness of an officers banner should be dependent on the officer... so if the "Officer" (the person who planted the banner) dies, the effect disappears.

Could even do away with the time limit on the item completely, and make it dependent on the life status of the person who planted it.

One other note - in combat, an officers banner makes a very noticeable target... yes, it provides a morale boost, but it also gives the enemy a focus point. So the "officer" who planted the flag should be revealed on the mini-map (like having pestilence's bugs on you) the entire time the officers banner is up.

Voted yes.

[Sknurt]

i voted yes could be a first !

[Shintetsu]

The lanes wouldn't push themselves. It would not have any sort of effect like that on your creeps.

Think about it this way:
We define the "middle" of the map to be a line connecting the point in each lane where the creeps fight. Think Caldavar, it's basically a diagonal line across the map.

Creeps are always equal timespaces away. Let's call the period between creep spawnings T.

Creeps move at constant speed when not fighting. We'll call that speed S.

The banner would cause the creeps to move at let's say 2S.

So the distance between two creep waves is S x T. The distance between creeps with the banner would be 2 x S x T.

So if left to their own devices, assuming each creep fights at the same strength, this would just move the "center" of the lane towards the enemy's base some constant distance that would not change after any number of waves (this distance depends only on the speed difference between creeps), if left constantly deployed in all lanes.

Using this on all lanes would only effectively increase the distance of the "middle" of the map from your base and decrease the effective distance of the "middle" of the map from the enemy base.

This would NOT push the lane by itself, since the enemy creeps would spawn just as fast, it would just advance that line since your creeps would cover more distance before encountering the enemy creeps. This extra distance covered WILL REMAIN CONSTANT.

Similarly, this gives your creeps no advantage against towers compared with the other creeps. Thus, the other creeps are JUST AS LIKELY TO PUSH A LANE AS YOUR CREEPS.


Therefore, the effect of this item without players to aid the creeps in battle is ZERO.

So stop worrying about it, it's a perfect idea.
QFMFT. It's a good item if you know what to do with it. T-up for me.

[RPGBandit]

You have to think, too, that this has the potential to actually boost 5 waves if creeps if you pull a wave to neutrals to do so. I absolutely love the idea though. Could be really helpful.

Thumbs up from me.

[serrath]

QFMFT. It's a good item if you know what to do with it. T-up for me.

QFMFT?

[Gedok]

QFMFT?

Quote for Mother ****in' Truth

[BooPoo]

For some reason I think this item will be used to pull neutrals more effectively, fcking up the whole laning period of the game. I dunno, but I just have that feeling. Getting your creeps from neutral to neutral camp.

Still voting yes, as it is also a very awesome buff for Ophelia.

I can see her using this item tons.

[serrath]

It'll be a good change. :)

[Gedok]

For some reason I think this item will be used to pull neutrals more effectively, fcking up the whole laning period of the game. I dunno, but I just have that feeling. Getting your creeps from neutral to neutral camp.

Still voting yes, as it is also a very awesome buff for Ophelia.

I can see her using this item tons.

That is an incredibly good point and to be honest, never thought of it. However, this is all theory crafting, and would be curious to see how it would work in both pub environment as well as high tier teams.

But I believe the cost of the item would hinder the idea of using this banner to neutral creep pull. You are spending quite a bit of cash just to make neutral creep pulls, when you should be focused more on getting your items and making sure those wards/counterwards are up.

[Tatts]

I like the idea, but have you considered giving it a cool down for purchase, like the wards have now? I mean, that's pretty much what it is, another team enhancing tool. Vision is ******* amazing, fast moving creeps to rush a tower, even better.

[TheEskhaton]

i agree, but, I'd add some minor details like the creeps being immune to the buff for the next 5 seconds during and after the 6 sec buff time, and adding 100% slow resist would be useful

[Gedok]

i agree, but, I'd add some minor details like the creeps being immune to the buff for the next 5 seconds during and after the 6 sec buff time, and adding 100% slow resist would be useful

Good idea, I decided to add this in.

[Gedok]

bump

[serrath]

VOTE YUS. Please. This is good. And cool.

[Strills]

Very cool idea indeed! This would bring another element to pushing and defending. Maybe adding a cooldown for purchasing it, to make it more situational.
If one team decides to do this early, that could easily lead to the opponents buying it to defend themselves, which could lead to a constant stream of banners to not let the creeps push too much.

That wouldn't add to the gameplay, but ruin it. I'm not saying this is how it's gonna be, just a thought.
To fix this you could just add a cooldown, doesn't have to be long. But that means you cant buy 10 banners and keep your creeps feeded with them all the time.

Otherwise a really good idea, just add a cooldown as for the wards. Another thing that could be interesting would be another such item which makes your creeps a little stronger, but that could be kinda overkill for the idea.

[Gedok]

Should this be in Popular Suggestions ?

[alliednoob]

maybe make another banner that makes creeps have (a lot) more armor (nice for counter pushing)

[Rode]

mmm nice item.. but i think that a cooldown of 20 secs will be a good idea

[NOSAKIAS]

To say the trust, I don't really like the idea.
And I don't believe anyone would spend any gold just to make creeps run faster...

[serrath]

Nympho-push. Needs speedy-creeps. Any push wants faster creeps. Especially if 3-4/5 of the enemy team is down and you want to go before they get back on their feet.

[SLASHER`]

What about an item that passively increases nearby creeps movement speed to match your own? Then you could slow early game and speed late game. Idk. This is an interesting idea.

[serrath]

No one would hold that lategame, takes up an item slot.

[SLASHER`]

True. A permanent item could be a useful item for Ophelia though. Her creeps are lazy.

[Novice]

I can smell these banners being tossed to the ground after Genocide. Got my "yes" vote.

[TheGrizzle]

I say increase the radius and make it affect all creeps, that way you could hide it in the trees near an enemy lane and make their creeps rush closer to your tower, providing easier farm (?)

[serrath]

I can smell these banners being tossed to the ground after Genocide. Got my "yes" vote.

They would pave the ******* road with these man!

[Simbamatic]

Just lane w/ rampage.

Problem solves itself.

[Verisi]

Very unfortunate that this item is getting so many T-downs. It's one of the easiest T-ups I've ever given.
I suppose a lot of people just don't understand the usefulness of it.

[serrath]

Hell, might as well give them the full 522 MS or whatever it maxes at. It's not like that'd make it imbalanced or anything.

[ShAdOw_LaNcE]

Hell, might as well give them the full 512 MS or whatever it maxes at. It's not like that'd make it imbalanced or anything.

... Don't even comment if you're that nooby. It's 522 ms as max, always has been, and always will be. Any one who has picked up a haste rune and has a memory better than a gold fish should know that.

[canikizu]

plz delete this, wrong post

[HatsuDatsu]

What if your hero gets the aggro of the creeps cause your harassing? The creeps shoulds be dispelled of the buff when they target anny unit to attack or harrasing wil cause a group of mega haste come after you. And you wil be able to pull the creeps from 1000 range to your own tower.

[serrath]

... Don't even comment if you're that nooby. It's 522 ms as max, always has been, and always will be. Any one who has picked up a haste rune and has a memory better than a gold fish should know that.

Dunno what you're talking about. :D

[j4ns3L]

No need for a cooldown since it doesn't increase the rate at which creeps spawn. It would just have all your creeps walking faster. Used repeatedly, it would have basically no effect. Think it out for yourself. Remember that creeps spawn at constant intervals.

The only purpose is to move creeps along a lane faster. Obviously, combat will stop this, so it's only truly useful when pushing a lane. (So you can push further without them reaching you, less lag time between creep waves.)

This essentially nullifies any argument favoring backdooring.

Agree with that..
I think this item is a useful idea. :)

[buddhistiC`]

I liked the idea at first but i figured the opposing team would like to have the time differential in order to revive. In some clutch situations the team on defense needs those few extra seconds

[bhayka]

its a good idea, but there should be a limit on how many you can have...
if a team wants to push a lane then perhaps 2 would be suffice. although the team could counter-push as welll.