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blueseph

12-07-2009, 07:36 PM

THIS GUIDE DOES NOT WORK WELL IN PUBS. YOU WILL NOT GET A HIGHER KD DOING THIS

Roaming
Hello and welcome to my guide on a very distinct playstyle. Roaming is something seldom discussed on these forums except in a passing comment. It is an incredibly potent strategy under certain circumstances and an amazing roamer will set your carry up for the express lane. Roamers admittedly gimp themselves on items and levels but if played well they will devastate the opposing team.

What is a roamer?
A roamer is a hero with no set lane. They head from lane to lane, looking for players who are out of position/low on hp to score a kill or to simply harass and slow down their farming and ganking potential.

Two types of roamers exist. For the majority of this guide I'll be focusing on dedicated roamers

Dedicated Roamers
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4b/Andromedahero.gif/64px-Andromedahero.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2a/Behemothhero.gif/64px-Behemothhero.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/6c/Slitherhero.gif/64px-Slitherhero.gif

Dedicated roamers are heroes that begin roaming at level one and stop roaming once the leveling phase stops and the group fight stage begins. They have either a strong stun or a crippling slow at level one that leads to an early first blood and hopefully subsequent kills beyond that.

Please note this is not an all-inclusive list. Pollywog Priest and Electrician, for example, also make great roamers.

A major requisite to being a roamer is to be strongly item independant. A hero who is expected to carry late game should not roam, because through roaming you minimize the amount of experience and creep kills you recieve to the collective benefit of your team. A Sandwraith should not roam, but a Slither is a prime candidate. Barring Staff of the Master, Slither cannot increase the magic damage/slows he does, so he will put out roughly the same amount of damage without any items at all.

Semi-roamers
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/3/35/Pharaohhero.gif/64px-Pharaohhero.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/96/Madmanhero.gif/64px-Madmanhero.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/02/Valkyriehero.gif/64px-Valkyriehero.gif

Semi-roamers are heroes who start in a lane but leave their lane and begin ganking once certain criteria has been met. For example, Pharaoh will leave his lane and begin ganking nonstop once he hits level six and has boots and a bottle. These heroes will not be discussed in this guide.

Why should I choose a roamer?
Roamers put pressure on the enemy from level one. They give your team two solos and you help your carry/babysitter in a psuedo-trilane. Enemies mid and short lane are forced to play defensive lest they step out of position and be destroyed by a fissure that gets them stuck. Roamers are also incredibly potent ways to stop pulling and shut down jungling players. They are ausually in prime position to ward.

What are the downsides to roaming/why should I not choose a roamer?
Roamers inherently have no money. A roamer should never get the killing blow on anything for the first few minutes. They leech XP and receive assist gold. A roamer at twenty minutes would be lucky to have a bottle, boots, and a pair of bracers. You should not expect your roamer to carry you to victory.

If your team does not have two adequate solos, do not run this strategy. Playing the roamer in a pub game is also a quick way to concede at 15 minutes.

Item Overview

Recommended starting items
http://i49.tinypic.com/2s7vu4j.jpg ...http://i45.tinypic.com/v63j47.jpg

You get quite a bit of mana regen, a solid amount of stats, and enough tangos to last you through to your bottle (hopefully). You should ideally be able to sustain yourself through these items until at least you have boots/bottle.

If your team needs you to get wards, the second item set should be what you buy. You skimp on stats but the wards are invaluable to your team.

Starting Items I don't recommend
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zbfl84.jpg ... http://i50.tinypic.com/29di6j7.jpg

A naked bottle on a roamer is not *terrible* seeing as we're not trying to outhit anyone, but every bit of autoattack damage really comes into play in ganking. A pair of marchers and regen is something you should never take. You severely gimp your damage and mana regen, requiring you to head back to base after a maximum of two casts, defeating the purpose of being a roamer. Never get boots first.

Secondary Items
http://i.imgur.com/2ikI6.gif?6552 http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/7/7d/Marchersitem.gif/60px-Marchersitem.gif http://i33.tinypic.com/bkj7r.png http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/67/Mana_Batteryitem.gif/60px-Mana_Batteryitem.gif

Every roamer needs these items, regardless of who they are.

Marchers give you extra MS, allowing you to chase and animation cancel better, allowing more hits and more successful ganks. You should directly upgrade your Marchers into Striders. With 150 bonus movespeed, running between lanes to gank becomes incredibly simple.

Bottle gives unequaled rune control and combined with a Winged Courier gives you a near infinite supply of mana.

Blood Chalice is the other mana regen option. If your mid needs the runes and the courier, blood chalice is the perfect alternative.

Mana battery supplement your regen quite nicely, as well as provide you fodder for some mind games.

Optional Items
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/8d/Homecoming_Stoneitem.gif/60px-Homecoming_Stoneitem.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/b/b1/Ward_of_Sightitem.gif/60px-Ward_of_Sightitem.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/f9/Ward_of_Revelationitem.gif/60px-Ward_of_Revelationitem.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/9e/Winged_Courieritem.gif/60px-Winged_Courieritem.gif
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Power_Supplyitem.gif/60px-Power_Supplyitem.gif

The Homecoming Stone allows you to quickly counter tower dives and move to the far lane. Carry one as soon as possible, the mobility and ability to scare off tower dives is without a doubt worth the 135g.

You are always in a good spot to both offensively and defensively place wards. These are somewhat costly and should probably be left to your dedicated ward *****. If that's you, salud.

You generally won't be the person to buy a courier, but you may want to upgrade it to a Winged Courier. It allows your items to be brought much quicker and refilling your bottle becomes painless. There are usually better candidates for upgrading your courier but it won't harm you to.

With the nerfs to Mana Battery, I just don't think the cost justifies the price, especially since you're so money starved. It's not a bad item, though, and if you end up with more kills than normal, by all means pick it up.

Positioning
Map Position
Depending on your team's lane choices, you'll be sitting in either team's jungle. If your team plays it safe and lanes your carry in the short lane, you should be sitting in your jungle and vice versa. You'll make occasional treks to mid, but your general position will be somewhere in this jungle.

Make no mistake, though; you're the most vulnerable to mid->short ganks. You will probably be overpowered by a higher level hero and any assistance from the lane. Your mid must be on top of missing calls and you should do your best to attempt to counter gank.

http://i45.tinypic.com/24f0101.gif

Rune Control
Roamers have a prime position to grab their respective runes. If short lane attempts to grab it, they have to go through you. If mid is a rune-dependant hero, it's an opportune time for you and your mid player to attempt a kill.

Double Damage/Illusion are your best bet at a guaranteed kill. You can eschew most of the good positioning required to gank and still be awarded the kill. With double damage rune you will most likely take the kill, but it's not something to fret over. Illusion not only adds damage, but it allows you to block with one illusion, further increasing the damage done to the enemy.

Invisibility lets you ignore positioning and wait right next to the enemy until the creep wave is in a favorable position.

Haste is my personal favorite. Haste allows you to visit the lane you can't normally get to in a flash. The enemy won't be expecting you in the slighest, giving you a great opportunity to catch them with their pants down.

Regeneration should be left to your mid player. You should have enough regen to carry you through to the end of the laning phase.

The Gank
Someone messed up and moved out of position. It's Glacius, and you can already taste his delicious tears. You step out from hiding and let fly with the nukes. Even Kremlin Joe would be terrified. You walk up to Glacius and start auto-attacking, just waiting for the announcer to triumphantly proclaim...

"Bloodlust!"

But your allies are sitting at the tower. You notice you're at the fountain, far from where the bad guys are. Your name is definately on the screen, but it's the second one instead of the first. That means...

...#$!%. Okay, let's prevent that.

Before the Gank
Let your allies know you're there. Ping yourself and then ping your enemies. If time allows, let them know of your preferred target. If you have multiple disables, try to organize them to possibly get both heroes. It's usually best to wait for your creeps to overwhelm theirs.

At this point you become the initiator. You are the embodiment of the word go. Look for your opening and take it.

The Gank
Someone messed up and moved out of position. It's Glacius, and you can already taste his delicious tears. Before he can even correct himself, you're there. His pants turn a delightful shade of brown. You land your nuke cleanly, and Sand Wraith is on him faster than white on rice. Witch Slayer lands an amazing stun that nails both Glacius and Maliken. At the very instant Glacius shatters, Maliken is a miniature version of himself, waddling towards the safety of the tower. He trail of sand at his back weighs him down, but he finally makes it.

An unsung agreement between the three of you is forged and your trio follows. Your nuke flies yet again, and Sand Wraith gracefully swoops in and clinches the kill.

"Bloodlust!"
"Double Tap!"

http://i45.tinypic.com/34p10mh.gif

http://i49.tinypic.com/18nhgk.gif

http://i45.tinypic.com/2db74a8.gif

After the Gank
Head to the opposite lane that you just ganked. It's going to take that lane a little while to return and regain their confidence. You're simply going to be wasting time there. The opposite lane gives you time to regen, a quick runecheck, and another opportunity for a gank. Even if you don't kill mid, you should at least try to harass.

Killing an enemy is definitely the goal of a roamer, but even if all you're able to do is slow their farm and make them tower hug, you're accomplishing your goal.

If both lanes refuse to leave the safety of their tower, consider going to the far lane for an assist. If this is also unfeasable, farm a little with your lane. Try not to take your carry's last hits, but if he can't reach one for whatever reason, don't be afraid to snag it.

Hero Miniguides

Slither
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/6/6c/Slitherhero.gif/64px-Slitherhero.gif
....Analysis
+ Strong slows
+ Decent range
+ Strong anti-juking mechanism

- DoT means enemy becomes deniable
- Harder to animation cancel
- Below average movespeed.
.....Skill Build
1 - Poison Spray
2 - Toxicity
3 - Poison Ward
4 - Toxicity
5 - Toxicity
6 - Poison Burst
7 - Toxicity
8 - Poison Ward+

http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngPosion spray shoots in a line. Try to hit both heroes with the spray, but if you can't feasibly hit both, one is fine.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngTry to tag both targets with Toxicity for the slow, but if it cannot be done don't worry about it.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngPoison Ward should be used as an extension of your attack range to tag Toxicity.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngPoison Ward can also be used to block potential juke points and give vision of them.
.....Replays
Match 28353650 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=28353650) (``Zera)

Behemoth
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/2/2a/Behemothhero.gif/64px-Behemothhero.gif
....Analysis
+ Easy to aim long distance stun
+ Longest disable in the game
+ Every skill can stun

- Melee
- Difficult to animation cancel
- Potential to disable YOUR team for 8 seconds.
.....Skill Build
1 - Fissure
2 - Heavyweight
3 - Fissure
4 - Enrage
5 - Fissure
6 - Shockwave
7 - Fissure
8 - Heavyweight+

http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngUse fissure not as a stun but as a blocking mechanism. Using it like this makes it an eight second disable instead of just a 1-1.75s disable.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngAim the fissure a little to the side of the hero so that you hit them with the stun but do not place them on the wrong side.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngEnrage requires you to be standing adjacent to the enemy to cast, so don't be afraid to get close up and dirty.
.....Replays
Match 21559824 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=21559824) (JoshBell)

Andromeda
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/4/4b/Andromedahero.gif/64px-Andromedahero.gif
....Analysis
+ Long range easy-to-hit stun.
+ Armor reducing skill
+ Easy to animation cancel

- Short Range
- Low duration stun
- Large damage spread
.....Skill Build
1 - Comet
2 - Aurora
3 - Aurora
4 - Stats/Aura
5 - Aurora
6 - Void Rip
7 - Aurora
8 - Aura+

http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngComet has a short yet consistent stun. This makes positioning more important than other roamers.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngYour attack range is very short and requires you to get very close. Be aware of it.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngAurora gives vision, reduces armor, and costs very little mana. Use Aurora right after Comet to increase the damage done to the target.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngComet's stun lasts equally long for all levels, so keeping at a low level reduces the mana cost substantially.
.....Replays
Match 27129614 (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=27129614) (Rolo_L)

Electrician
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/d/d4/Electricianhero.gif/70px-Electricianhero.gif
....Analysis
+ Long range long duration disable
+ Movespeed increasing skill
+ Strongly mana independant

- Melee
- Easy to stop disable
- Scales very very poorly.
.....Skill Build
1 - Static Grip
2 - Energy Absorption
3 - Static Grip
4 - Energy Absorption
5 - Static Grip
6 - Cleansing Shock
7 - Static Grip
8 - Energy Absorption+

http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngStatic Grip is a very long disable with a relatively long cast range. It allows your team a good amount of time to position themselves well.
http://i46.tinypic.com/nychw0.pngEnergy Absorption does a good deal of damage and gives you a large movespeed advantage, giving you the opportunity to block your target from running, much like you do to creeps.

Mid Game

Mid game has rolled around and the laning phase has broken down. You're significantly lower level than the enemies, and you're also undergeared. Your team is miles ahead and your carry is a few minutes from his first big core item. Their carry is finishing up his bracers and is about three fourths of the way through his mana battery. Your job as a roamer is done and it's time for you to start recovering from it.

If you lose the game, don't fret. Learn from your mistakes. Maybe it wasn't an opportune time to take a roamer, or you played too timidly/aggresively. Don't expect this strat to beat every team ever. Learn to play it well, adapt to it, and adapt to enemies who adapt to your strat. A good roamer is an impact player that will decide the game within the first ten minutes.

blueseph

12-07-2009, 07:36 PM

Questions

Why aren't you including every hero that can roam?

I'd like to think of this as a slightly more advanced guide. The heroes that I've chosen to include are heroes that roam effectively and still contribute well to their team. Heroes like Hammerstorm, Glacius, Electrician, Pollywog, etc. can all roam, but they have much better slots to fill in the team. If you believe your hero can roam well, by all means, play him.

Are you sure roamers shouldn't get kills?

Absolutely. A quicker bottle won't net you more kills, but a Maliken who finishes his Shrunken Head earlier will net your team a whole lot more. A faster pair of boots might help you do more damage, but nowhere near as much as a faster Mock by Sandwraith.

How do roamers fit in with trilanes?

...They don't. Currently roamers have no place in current high level strategies. Trilanes are just too good. :(
Upcoming Updates

More replays/Better GIFs

More GIFs coming whenever I get the chance to actually pick a roaming hero in a BD and not be forced to fp hellbringer/jereziah/tempest. Due to school this probably won't happen for a good while. :(

Elzaros

12-07-2009, 07:43 PM

Great post. But the Ultimate roamer is tb. Will destroy all heroes.

blueseph

12-07-2009, 07:46 PM

Great post. But the Ultimate roamer is tb. Will destroy all heroes.

tb doesn't have a stun or slow, and his nukes don't do enough damage until level 5+.

he's a semi-roamer at best.

ElementUser

12-07-2009, 08:09 PM

A roamer should *never* get the killing blow on *anything* for the first few minutes.I don't know, I would like some gold for better roaming early on (for Bottle, Mana Battery and Boots). The faster you get your 3 roaming items, the better you'll be able to roam. Of course you're not going to purposely get the last-hit, but if you happen to do so it's not a bad thing.

Andromeda & Behemoth need consumable regeneration to be able to roam well so the sooner they get Bottle the better.

An unsung agreement between the three of you is forged and your trio follows. Your nuke flies yet again, and Sand Wraith gracefully swoops in and clinches the kill.
I wish the scenarios are always perfect enough to let the carry get the last hit :P. But 90% of the time you'll need every hit you can get

blueseph

12-07-2009, 08:15 PM

I don't know, I would like some gold for better roaming early on (for Bottle, Mana Battery and Boots). The faster you get your 3 roaming items, the better you'll be able to roam. Of course you're not going to purposely get the last-hit, but if you happen to do so it's not a bad thing.

Andromeda & Behemoth need consumable regeneration to be able to roam well so the sooner they get Bottle the better

between starting regen, gold ticks, and any assist gold, you should be set for your bottle. if you take a kill that your carry won't be able to reach in time, no harm no foul.

personally i havent had a problem getting a bottle before my regen ran out, though.

Oblivion291

12-07-2009, 08:38 PM

I really like this thread. I hope your going to update this when some of the other roamers from Dota gets ported in.

Vulpes

12-07-2009, 08:56 PM

Ophelia doesnt count as a roamer!?;
Or did you just include some example heroes and there are many more?

blueseph

12-07-2009, 09:01 PM

ophelia falls into the category of a jungler, sadly. you might get supremely lucky and snag a minotaur at level one and do a quick gank to your respective lane, but it doesn't really qualify.

there are other roamers. electrician for example is an excellent roamer, but i've chosen to include the most popular ones.

crazysheep

12-07-2009, 09:13 PM

How about using Witch Slayer/Pyro as a roamer? Both have stuns for ganks.

blueseph

12-07-2009, 09:17 PM

witch slayer's stun is too short to roam effectively. he's also a superb babysitter, so it's better to use him as such.

pyro generally isn't picked unless it's in conjunction with another stunner to have an amazing double stun lane. he's not a bad choice, though, as far as roamers go.

Sukari

12-07-2009, 09:30 PM

Hmm nice guide - I want to try this with Slither.

But I'm worried about being super underleveled. If we're pressured in such a way that we cannot finish - how do I gain the levels I missed?

blueseph

12-07-2009, 09:40 PM

your team should be super overleveled. think of it as your team vs their team in rock climbing. instead of climbing, you're standing at the bottom grabbing them and pulling them back down. eventually, your team throws you a rope and you take the fast track up.

as slither, you're there for your poison spray and your ult. once those have been wasted, it doesn't matter all that much what happens to you. if you're at least 7, you contribute enough as is.

YOGZULA

12-08-2009, 01:10 AM

+1 for premium

Drasha

12-08-2009, 01:12 AM

2 heroes you forgot pollywog and electrican.

blueseph

12-08-2009, 01:14 AM

Drasha

12-08-2009, 01:20 AM

i didn't forget, i just consciously omitted them. i even mentioned electrician a few posts up!

i'm not a fan of polly roaming. i'd rather him sit in a lane and get 6 asap. might just be me. i'll note it though =]
Electrician is only good for roaming they are both worth mentioning as good roamers even if some one like polly can fit other roles as well.

blueseph

12-08-2009, 01:23 AM

noted and mentioned =]

ShadowExile

12-08-2009, 01:25 AM

I personally think Succubus is definitely a dedicated semi-roamer. Whenever I hit level 6, I run top, sleep the disabler, and then use my ulti on the carry. I then rely on my team to disable the remaining disabler in that lane so that we don't get interrupted. Carry gets the kill on the person I ultied, a few seconds later the disabler goes down because of the chain stun, and I help with a Heartache. With just about 0 mana, assisted in a double kill, then push the lane, and back to mid.

blueseph

12-08-2009, 01:30 AM

i think i'm just gonna stamp "these lists are not all inclusive at the top of the page"

Drasha

12-08-2009, 01:32 AM

i think i'm just gonna stamp "these lists are not all inclusive at the top of the page"
you should :D

_Archangel_

12-08-2009, 01:33 AM

Lovely guide.

Hammerstorm for a roamer? Big AoE stun :3

blueseph

12-08-2009, 01:39 AM

hammerstorm for CARRY THE WHOLE TEAM imo. i've personally never seen hammerstorm as a roamer.

if you can find me a replay of it though i'll include it with your name

nh.

revooo1

12-08-2009, 01:55 AM

nice guide

+1 for premium

Oblivion291

12-08-2009, 02:54 AM

bowyer

12-08-2009, 09:53 PM

nice guide

blueseph

12-10-2009, 05:05 PM

i dunno if it's in bad taste to bump, but

..bump :3

Extreme_Cake

12-10-2009, 05:19 PM

Forsaken Archer makes a fairly good roamer if you can either target your root well from the fog or get a stun from the lane first. Pebbles can also roam, although he does suffer from weak damage if he does.

Padawanabee

12-10-2009, 05:22 PM

Hag, Magmus, and Pebbles are all excellent roamers.

CronoDroid

12-10-2009, 06:01 PM

Guys, you get the idea, this is a gameplay guide, not a hero guide. He's trying to teach people how to play this role well. An all-inclusive list of heroes that can effectively roam would be nice though.

Padawanabee

12-10-2009, 06:05 PM

Alright, then.

Teleport stones are the greatest asset after boots and a bottle for a roamer. Any enemy worth ganking will be smart enough to ward up his river and rune spawns, so the easiest way to gank an enemy is to catch them by surprise via teleport. Also, a roamer will want to counter-kill any enemies looking to gank his allies. So basically, teleport stones are just as much of as important in the laning phase as after it.

blueseph

12-10-2009, 10:28 PM

the list of heroes that roam well is exhaustive. the catch is that most of these heroes are either not picked competitively or have a certain role in a lane that is too good to turn down. behemoth would be one of these if his fissure wasn't so amazing for roaming.

very rarely do you see a roaming pebbles/hag because it's a strange comp indeed that would choose these, and you'd be even less likely to see pyromancer/magmus because it's more effective for them to be in a lane (either together or with other stunners). andromeda and slither are item independent heroes, meaning if you have a bottle and boots with them, they're geared for endgame (bar a bracer or two)

i guess i'll put together a list of heroes than can roam. i just don't know if they should.

edit scratch that. i'm not going to make a list of every single hero that's possible to roam with because that hero maybe has an ability to help kill someone with if they maybe get low enough to finish off. just because a hero can roam doesn't mean they should. a lot of suggested heroes have much better positions to fill in the team.

En_Dotter

12-11-2009, 11:10 AM

Vulpes

12-11-2009, 11:43 AM

Later on u can make it sange and yasha if u need hp and additional slow

I guess this disqualifies you from giving any advice.

ElementUser

12-11-2009, 12:16 PM

Sven was a pretty good roamer with his old Storm Bolt back in the DotA days (lower cooldown)

blueseph

12-11-2009, 02:35 PM

I have something to point out or ask since i play roamer role quite often.

If you play roaming glacius why not getting boots 1st and if you are playing roaming andromeda why not bottle 1st. Reasons i think those items are needed:
Glacius:
low ms, rather low cd on his spell so he can chase down and spell the target again.
Andromeda:
Bottle is a great item if u start as 2x mid and gain rune control. Also by 2x mid i mean only till the next rune appears and andro is gone. Its not strictly 2x mid so u would have 3x top or 2x bot or what ever, but u know what i wanted to say.
So i vote for bottle on andro and boots glacius.

Edit: Also i recommend getting yasha on agi roamers asap for even more movement speed. Later on u can make it sange and yasha if u need hp and additional slow or go for manta. (hack and slash or geo)

Also, roamer should take first blood (if possible) in my opinion or fb and one more kill he could get roaming items faster and then start assisting only (or killing only if its needed). There is time for assisting but being fast moving roamer is really needed asap if u want roaming to be really effective.

glacius is better in a lane, not to mention with boots you have zero hp. glacius is taken for his aura and delays his "roaming" abilities to further help the team. getting boots on glacius is just asking to be counter ganked, as you have no hp at all and even less regen. you'll be back at the fountain in no time.

getting a bottle on andro leaves you incredibly rune dependent; more so than your/their mid. you also lack stats that add up to damage when it comes time for the gank. bottle is not a terrible way to start but i just dont recommend it. between mana pots and tangos you should have more than enough regen to survive til your bottle.

a roamer will *never* have enough money for a slash. ever. roamers don't work that way. a roamer will boost your early game in the hope that it's enough to win late. a roamer at best (and i mean at best) will have: bottle, steamboots, two bracers, one tp, and a set of wards. even if through some miracle of farming you get a yasha, it'll be way too late to put it to use as the laning phase is over.

a roamer should not take first blood. i know sometimes it just can't be helped, but if you can help it, don't take it. yes, it'll help you get your bottle a little quicker, but what will that do if you have enough regen to survive for a few minutes? if you can help your sandwraith get his radiance three minutes faster, or your maliken his bkb three minutes earlier, you can turn the tide of the entire game. you aren't dependent on items. that's why you chose a roamer. your items will come slowly, but they'll come. there's no reason for a roamer to be more fed than your carry.

En_Dotter

12-11-2009, 04:48 PM

glacius is better in a lane, not to mention with boots you have zero hp. glacius is taken for his aura and delays his "roaming" abilities to further help the team. getting boots on glacius is just asking to be counter ganked, as you have no hp at all and even less regen. you'll be back at the fountain in no time.

Yea he is better on the lane, but he can do the great job roaming and will delay his aura only for one level. So its frostbite then frost nova then max aura. So its not a great delay on his support skill. It is risky to go roaming with him but even if u fail (but be smart enough no to die) u can easily go back to lane and play normally. I know this is not the best option but still can work out. Also i suggest boots cus of his ability to do 2x disables easily (slow and stun). Then get bottle and 2-3 bracers (or get one bracer than get boots).

getting a bottle on andro leaves you incredibly rune dependent; more so than your/their mid. you also lack stats that add up to damage when it comes time for the gank. bottle is not a terrible way to start but i just dont recommend it. between mana pots and tangos you should have more than enough regen to survive til your bottle.
In order to play with bottle on andro as a first item u must skill stun and stats only (3-5 lvls of stats) to get some survivability (114-190hp), more mana (51-85) and some minor dmg boost. Ofc ult is taken on lvl 6. Its not the most brilliant skill setup cus of armor reduction skill, but it works fine.

a roamer will *never* have enough money for a slash. ever. roamers don't work that way. a roamer will boost your early game in the hope that it's enough to win late. a roamer at best (and i mean at best) will have: bottle, steamboots, two bracers, one tp, and a set of wards. even if through some miracle of farming you get a yasha, it'll be way too late to put it to use as the laning phase is over.
Roamers dont take gold only from assists since they lane a bit after the gang (w8ing for the rune or something, maybe 1 min or something) and get some gold. Also with assists and FB i manage to make phases, bottle and yasha till min 22. Its possible that only one lane is pushed but the picks decide if ur gonna have pushers or steady farming/ganging game.
Anyway the most important thing before choosing to roam is to see the hero setups. Sometimes roaming is just a fail at start (not really a fail but not needed). For example if you got a pusher team and wanna win fast, just focus on leveling so you can push asap (in that case dont get a roamer or take that kind of a hero for harassing the lane or what ever but i dont suggest roamer if u want a quick game).

a roamer should not take first blood. i know sometimes it just can't be helped, but if you can help it, don't take it. yes, it'll help you get your bottle a little quicker, but what will that do if you have enough regen to survive for a few minutes? if you can help your sandwraith get his radiance three minutes faster, or your maliken his bkb three minutes earlier, you can turn the tide of the entire game. you aren't dependent on items. that's why you chose a roamer. your items will come slowly, but they'll come. there's no reason for a roamer to be more fed than your carry.Well we disagree on this one and thats all i can say. I really think roamer should take FB and one more kill in order to make ms/dmg items asap to gang more often and with more success. And i respect ur reasons since i think both of us r right in a way - im thinking early ur thinking mid/late game.

Also i think 2 of us dont have the same view on the roaming later on. We agree on the major roamers items (boots - phases must be build on a roamer for more ms and bonus dmg imo, bottle and similar supporting stuff), but i see a roamer not only as early game heavy ganger but also as mid game distracting machine. While i roam till the towers fall, later on focus on farming and casual gangs. By farming i mean pushing lane hard and lasthitting and then tp to somewhere where u r needed. And later on you will have nice items and be able to support your team even more (this works for agi not for int). And if you r int roamer (polly, lion, succu and similar) stick with the team and support as much as u can cus int heroes dont get so much farm (exceptions exist).

One more thing, your guid suggests (correct me if im wrong) that roamer is fired when mid game stage begins. And according to the guide you dont get almost any gold and your team is doomed to play 4v5 at midgame to late game (no items and stuff). I think you cant relay on early game pwnage only but need to secure the other phases of the game. And thats why i say roamer takes fb. And btw when u get that FB the lane is free for the carry to farm on since you are most probably going back to roam/grab the rune. While u get ~400 gold from fb, carry will take 150-400 gold from last hitting on the lane till the enemy appears (this works with teams ofc, so carry takes creeps, supporter denies). Every time you gang you mess up enemies even if you dont kill them, and gang is done when the lane is closer to your tower and usually not done by twr diving. Since that lane isnt pushed your carry has time to get that gold from creeps. Thats why i dont see harm in taking 1-3 kills early but i dont do more (usually fb only and one more if i really need it).

blueseph

12-11-2009, 05:58 PM

Extreme_Cake

12-11-2009, 06:09 PM

Getting stats over Aurora seems forgiveable to me. The small armour redux probably won't make any more difference than the stats.

Sadhe

12-11-2009, 06:15 PM

Oh, it does. Alone level 1 increases Physical Damage by about 10% (probably even more) at that early stage. Not to mention the other benefits.

Typically (and ideally), you will have 3 (including yourself) heroes beating on the victim. That adds up.

Padawanabee

12-11-2009, 07:17 PM

I often use Aurora to scout around. It's very useful to send down a possible gank spot or in a place hidden by trees. I can't tell you how many times it's saved my life from possible ganks that way. And it's pretty cheap, as well.

I would have to agree on the part of taking early kills for yourself, however. If you can get some fast boots, bottle, wards, teleport, mana supply, other good roamer items I can't think of, you can do a lot of good with those for the next 10-15 minutes. Your carry isn't going to mind losing 500g, especially if you're ganking his lane every time the enemy shows up. Basically, that gold is a bottle for you, but just another 30s of farm to the carry sitting in his lane.

ElementUser

12-11-2009, 07:48 PM

Aurora's Vision > stats

Plus I never get stats on Andromeda anymore...Power Supply and Bottle cover her early-game HP & Mana needs well enough after you get them.

And yeah Padawanabee said what I wanted to say - if you get more gold earlier, it should result in a snowball effect, essentially making your lane dominance even greater

blueseph

12-13-2009, 04:15 PM

i don't like the idea of having the hero who's strong early game to become even stronger early game to sacrifice late game dominance.

Tanubis

12-13-2009, 05:37 PM

One more thing, your guid suggests (correct me if im wrong) that roamer is fired when mid game stage begins. And according to the guide you dont get almost any gold and your team is doomed to play 4v5 at midgame to late game (no items and stuff). I think you cant relay on early game pwnage only but need to secure the other phases of the game. And thats why i say roamer takes fb. And btw when u get that FB the lane is free for the carry to farm on since you are most probably going back to roam/grab the rune. While u get ~400 gold from fb, carry will take 150-400 gold from last hitting on the lane till the enemy appears (this works with teams ofc, so carry takes creeps, supporter denies). Every time you gang you mess up enemies even if you dont kill them, and gang is done when the lane is closer to your tower and usually not done by twr diving. Since that lane isnt pushed your carry has time to get that gold from creeps. Thats why i dont see harm in taking 1-3 kills early but i dont do more (usually fb only and one more if i really need it).

Just looking at slither here as an example - he's contributing lots during midgame even naked, because all he's expected to do is get in there and ult + poison spray, and his dps will continue passively even if he is immediately killed. The damage from his auto attacks will always be minimal - definately try to tag as many as you can for toxicity, but you're just placing dots and that's it. So no, he's definately not fired midgame. Endgame he is pretty useless though, but you should have won by now or your carries should be dominating anyhow.

blueseph

12-18-2009, 06:03 PM

Just looking at slither here as an example - he's contributing lots during midgame even naked, because all he's expected to do is get in there and ult + poison spray, and his dps will continue passively even if he is immediately killed. The damage from his auto attacks will always be minimal - definately try to tag as many as you can for toxicity, but you're just placing dots and that's it. So no, he's definately not fired midgame. Endgame he is pretty useless though, but you should have won by now or your carries should be dominating anyhow.

exactly. you don't need any items to contribute to a fight, hence the reason you get a roamer!

billcosplay

12-30-2009, 06:17 PM

Nice guide man...
I had been looking into more info on roaming and have found it to be the funnest play style for me yet ;D

KEENGAMER

12-31-2009, 10:19 AM

Panda is a pretty amazing roamer

akitoes

12-31-2009, 10:43 AM

emiltheboy

12-31-2009, 10:47 AM

i like to roam in pubs and it works fine as long as your opponents are smart enough to understand what roaming is.

blueseph

12-31-2009, 04:10 PM

Like ElementUser said, with most roamers you need the gold from kills when you roam
Your teammates can farm much more easily with free lanes, you on the other hand can't farm because you're always out ganking
Now andromeda for instance doesn't really need gold, just use judgement on what heroes need kills and what heroes don't

Starting items 2 totems / healpot / runes / clarities

:valk::andr::slit::magm::witc::hamm::ophe::behe: you can add to the fulltime roamers if you want, that's all I can think of

Pretty good guide

i just don't agree with the roamer getting the money for the kills. absolutely, the lane can farm more, but the addition of the gold for hero kills brings your carry that much closer to their first big ticket item. imagine a 4-0 sandwraith 8 minutes into the game. imagine a 4-0 andromeda 8 minutes into the game. one is going to have a much, much bigger impact.

but this is not a perfect world and the carry isn't always going to get the kill. sometimes the roamer does, sometimes the babysitter does, sometimes the carry does, and sometimes legion is a dick and takes it. :(

like i said i've rarely had a problem with gold as a roamer. i can usually survive til bottle with my intial regen and from there i can just courier it back and forth or grab runes to survive until my boots.

i've been toying with starting items and unless i have two extra support heroes, i really wont be getting my ideal starting items. i've been pretty much forced to get 1 totem, 1 health pot, 5 mana pots, 1 ward of sight. it's not ideal in the slightest but it's overall better for the team.

i don't agree with your valk because she's a much better roamer at level 6+ with boots and wraith bands and bottle, plus it's pretty easy to miss an arrow right at the start. witch has too low a starting stun to work well with, unless your team also has followup stuns then sure, but you're missing out on his babysitting abilities. hammerstorm is much, much better put together with another stunner to just ruin a lane with his ezmoad point and click adventure stun. i feel like i missed one :(

forsaken archer is also viable for a roamer, as the guy above said, but with a much different strategy. the long disable is really really killer. she doesn't really *need* items, most of her damage is done through ults and volleys and those fkn skeletons.

akitoes

12-31-2009, 04:30 PM

Now andromeda for instance doesn't really need gold, just use judgement on what heroes need kills and what heroes don't

10chars

sven lion you (quite) often see roaming in international dota
potm not always but more often than i thought at first

mokg

12-31-2009, 05:46 PM

for those worrying about being underleveled, you shouldn't. I decided to roam for the first time recently as electritian and it was amazing

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=18219775

is the replay. I'm guessing they didn't have wards because I was ganking them left and right. mid ganked, top ganked, mid ganked again etc. top was too scared to even lane, they stood at their tower the entire laning phase even when the creep wave was at our tower for most of the time. I did not touch bottom really, just mid/top. I could have been countered by warding put a lot of games go unwarded. oh, and you get some exp hiding in the fog while preparing to gank a lane

blueseph

01-03-2010, 09:08 PM

changed the layout quite a bit. would love some feedback. i'm well aware it's a little hard to read but i kinda ran out of time tonight to change it. a little color should spruce it up, though.

ElementUser

01-03-2010, 09:12 PM

Color & good use of bolding and underlining (underlining especially) would improve it even more

Or you could copy Rokman's/Chenq's guide layout style, it's nice and doesn't use any underlining

awayish`

01-03-2010, 09:22 PM

blueseph

01-04-2010, 02:32 AM

there is nothing wrong with roamers getting the first few kills. your carry heroes usually don't need the gold that early, it is wasted just sitting on them. they shouldn't have much problem farming up that ring of health even without the kill gold.

and you shouldn't totally have the no farm ever mentality. some levels on andro's aura or lion's disables is always nice and can make a big difference in midgame clashes. during mid-game, do some neuts here or there, help push when carries are out of lane. another great thing about roamers is the counterganking possibilities. because the enemy usually does not know where you are, you can either camp behind your carry/solo lane and wait for a gank to happen, or if you spot a gank with wards you can assist the fight and turn things around.

i'm still unconvinced that a roamer having 600g is better than a carry having 600g. like i said, 4-0 sandwraith @ 10m is much, much scarier to me than a 4-0 andromeda at the same time.

the no farm ever mentality lasts about 10 to 15 minutes. after that, absolutely, farm, get a sotm, blink dagger, whatever your core is. this guide is designed to stop at mid game, so whatever you do after that is your choice and yours alone.

Vulpes

01-04-2010, 04:07 AM

1100g on a Wraith is his Beastheart, after which he will be able to farm a bit easier.
1100g on Andromeda are Bottle + Boots, after which Wraith will be able to farm much, much easier.

I guess it's debatable if this really works out, but if Andro really keeps on Roaming, Money might be placed better than just sitting on your Carry.

E: Though I guess Feeding the Kill is still better, since there will be opportunities where you can't and you will get your Gold regardless

awayish`

01-04-2010, 10:39 AM

well, low level ganks have pretty low margin of error. just saying that it's ok if roamer gets the kill so you can just attack all you want.

blueseph

01-05-2010, 12:03 AM

the difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is none, but in practice there is.

in theory, the carry should get every single kill and every other player on the team should have simply assists. in practice, this is never, ever the case.

in theory, the roamer should be 0/0/4 while the carry is 4/0/0. in practice, it's usually 1-2/0/2 to 2-3/0/1. while i don't suggest the roamer deliberately take the kill, it's not the end of the world if it happens.

the majority of the changes to the guide are done. i think it's at a good state. i did a lot of needless tag editing, and added what i want to include in the future. thoughts?

akitoes

01-05-2010, 07:11 AM

in theory, the carry should get every single kill and every other player on the team should have simply assists.
to which we're saying no

awayish`

01-05-2010, 08:56 AM

the theory behind carries getting all the kills is that the gold on them scales better, but this is only true up to a point. for certain carries like sw or lancer, their radiance timing is so crucial that this does apply. however, scaling with gold has diminishing return even for carries. if your supporters have no boots and no money for wards, because your carry took all the kills and farm, you CAN lose like that. if your supporters die in 2 seconds in a clash because they have no gold for bracers, you are at a severe disadvantage. even the strongest carries are afraid of chain disables and can't win 1v5, you need some teammates reasonably useful in lategame to help you out.

blueseph

01-05-2010, 10:58 AM

to which we're saying no

which is fine, because in practice it never happens. in practice the team ends up having kills.

arguing over theory doesn't really change much since it rarely, if ever, happens. in practice the roamer ends up with kills and the carry ends up sitting out on a few. it's bound to happen, and not worth crying over spilled milk.

yogzula2

01-10-2010, 08:55 AM

sweet guide broham

blueseph

01-18-2010, 02:28 AM

After an especially fervent night of tinkering, he kneeled behind a bunker in the desert; he held a piece of welder's glass up to his eyes and waited.

apollo_440

01-18-2010, 07:35 AM

Pretty useful guide all in all, I've never seen anyone roam in pub except for myself, hope that changes now :)
I've got two things to add though:
I strongly disagree on Behemoth being a good roamer. This is only the case when your team has a better initiator. But usually he is the initiator and certainly needs Portal Key asap, which means farmfarmfarm.
Otherwise when I play andROAMeda (in pubs that is, and it usually works!), to help my team further, I just start to spam wards, given the fact that I'm undergeared anyway. Always have one rune spot warded and a ward near a tower that you think is going to be pushed soon (friendly tower or enemy tower) or in the forest to protect your carry from ganks. Of course, if you see an enemy place a ward, don't be afraid to get a counterward.

Drakie

01-18-2010, 03:57 PM

Really nice guide, got 1 question;

What kind of setups (your side and their side) allow for good roaming posibilities?

Oh and replays <3 ?

blueseph

01-18-2010, 04:12 PM

behemoth is an amazing roamer. his fissure is pretty much an eight second disable, the longest in the game. while i do agree that getting a portal key is paramount on him, it can easily be farmed mid game.

the only true requirement to roam is to make sure that your team has good solos. mid solo is a given but you need a good solo to cover the lane that you're going to be missing from. their side can be anything, doesn't much matter.

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=21559824 is my most recent game as a roamer. i didn't do amazingly (and my team was retarded, as you'll witness through the chat), but i landed some pretty good fissures.

blueseph

01-18-2010, 07:25 PM

ok think it fixed false alarm

blueseph

02-10-2010, 12:52 AM

again!

Orkimond

02-10-2010, 09:34 AM

I just had a thought, can engi roam? The push back on his keg makes him great for ganking, the only problem is that its hard to hit, but if he can get the roamer items with tinker and keg only (skipping ult till 9) he could dual gank and push towers early, getting kills only for his port key.
Just a thought.

Vulpes

02-12-2010, 11:24 PM

Just wanted to drop off how much I like this Guide.
Have been doing this for a while on irregular basis now, and it's really fun to do;
Your team having 10 Kills by 20 Minutes with you being 1/0/9 is just beautiful. Thank You :)

blueseph

02-13-2010, 11:21 PM

holy crap premium.

Just wanted to drop off how much I like this Guide.
Have been doing this for a while on irregular basis now, and it's really fun to do;
Your team having 10 Kills by 20 Minutes with you being 1/0/9 is just beautiful. Thank You :)

i am here to serve. glad you enjoyed it.

Kcolraw

02-14-2010, 07:51 AM

damn good guide

hope a buncha mini guides on semi-roamers get added yo

ElementUser

02-14-2010, 10:32 AM

Congrats on Premium :D

blueseph

02-14-2010, 12:27 PM

damn good guide

hope a buncha mini guides on semi-roamers get added yo

for you, my friend, anything.

(updated)

ElementUser

02-14-2010, 12:35 PM

Note that while Andromeda has a really short range, her attack animation is really easy to cancel. Slither's is slightly harder but still pretty easy to cancel

blueseph

02-14-2010, 03:34 PM

Note that while Andromeda has a really short range, her attack animation is really easy to cancel. Slither's is slightly harder but still pretty easy to cancel

i've updated the miniguide to be a little more informative.

KingsKIll1

02-15-2010, 05:47 PM

Thanks alot, great read.

ElementUser

02-17-2010, 03:30 PM

Oh yeah the main problem I had with roamers is what starting items to buy, so I tried the 2x Tangoes/4x Clarities/4x Branches and it's very successful! :)

(Mainly cause usually I have to buy the courier or wards on my team lol)

Here's a replay for your guide if you want to include it - Andromeda is the easiest roamer to play IMO. Would like to see more Behemoth/Slither roam replays in the future!

27129614

fatalexe

02-18-2010, 08:14 AM

great guide. thanks ! I tried taking aurora over stats on andro first time, and it was really faster when ganking squishy heroes.

blueseph

02-18-2010, 08:49 AM

it's so difficult to find a non andromeda roaming replay. i've *never* seen a behemoth roaming that wasn't named joshbell. since i usually only play bd, the chances of behemoth getting through the bans isn't very high.

slither has a better chance of getting played now because of his semi-recent buff.

i will be doing my best to get replays, but because of school i don't think it's feasible.

Stickyrolls

02-18-2010, 01:22 PM

Some things I would like to add to help this guide:
Despite what you what you may think op, though honorable intentions, it is very acceptable for the roamer to get the kills and is done so in high levels of play.
The carry is gonna get the extra gold regardless b/c you just killed the guys in his lane. Not to mention he is gonna continue to farm well b/c you just won his lane for him. This is the ONLY way you get gold. You getting a bottle and boots faster means less time walking around the map=more time killing=more gold for your carry.

Ganking midle is the best thing you could ever do for your team. This is THE most important lane in the game and is where the highest level heroes come from. A single gank on mid can win the game. Your mid get's that oh so nice level advantage and there mid has to start playing more defensively and getting less last hits. Roaming I don't mind if the mid hero gets the kill or me, if he gets it he might get HIS bottle or boots faster at mid, a big difference to a side lane getting the gold.

Even if you don't roam with behemoth you should at least semi-roam and not stay in lane. If your in your teams long lane help mid keep rune control on that side of the map and occasionally come gank mid with that rune.

Roamers, like junglers, should also be helping with rune control to give your mid an advantage. Talk with your mid, see how there mid is playing. Is he sitting at top every time before it spawns? Does he go to the correct rune every time? This is a good indicator of whether or not there team has wards up. Use this info to gank at rune spots. Roughly after the 6 minute mark you have more free reign as some teams are a little slow at getting that second set of wards up.

Kattou

02-18-2010, 04:25 PM

Oh yeah, gotta ask, can Devourer be used as a roamer too?
Hook + Decay can be very dangerous in the beginning, especially with the not-so-recently-anymore hook buff to 1000 units at all levels.

blueseph

02-18-2010, 04:36 PM

devourer can be used as a roamer, but he really hits his prime at 6.

sticky, most of what you suggested is somewhere in the guide. when i do another passthrough, i'll include some of what you said, though.

``Zera

02-22-2010, 07:05 PM

I'd like to submit a replay where i played slither, it was an easy game but i could pull off some nice ganks: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=28353650

If it gets submitted, PM me, and if not, well, too bad :(

Btw, i also find easier to gank getting the slither ward at lvl 3 because of its slow after poison spray wears off.

blueseph

02-22-2010, 10:15 PM

updated

benkofk

02-23-2010, 04:19 AM

ophelia is a ridiculous roamer, you don't even need to be a good ophelia player.. in BP lately me and my friends have been going pyro/blacksmith/ophelia on the short lane and seriously if you have two semi competant players soloing the other two lanes, you'll win. its impossible to not get first blood, usually i don't have competition in their jungle but every time i have (wildsoul/legionaire) i just literally fight them and win and because I have two in the lane next to me i'm pretty confident even if it is looking sketchy. if it all goes well, you can literally kill their mid barracks in 20 min

d0ublethiNk

02-23-2010, 05:53 AM

This is a great guide, thank you.

Could you please compile a list of good roaming replay's and add them to the guide?

blueseph

02-23-2010, 07:37 PM

ophelia is a jungler who ganks. doesn't exactly qualify as a roamer. ophelia plays as normal, just ganks every so often.

as for the roaming replays, i'm not in a very good position to look up replays and post them. i would absolutely love too, but i'm not in a position to. :(

soon, though. soon.

yoonietang

02-24-2010, 10:57 PM

im thinkin bs should be a great roamer, but i havne't ahd a chacne to try it. Low cd nuke, slow, and speed buff as well as not being too squishy sounds pretty good.

blueseph

02-25-2010, 10:44 AM

he's a good roamer, but his real potential is in a lane to abuse his slow-> stun combo. pyro blacksmith lane is nasty.

02-26-2010, 07:41 PM

Blacksmith solo lane is pretty nasty too. A level 3 flaming hammer every 15 seconds or so when your enemies are at level 3 or 4.

Nice guide btw.

03-09-2010, 11:34 PM

roaming is awesome!

akitoes

03-10-2010, 04:33 PM

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=52834

Semi-roamers
:phar::madm::valk:
Semi-roamers are heroes who start in a lane but leave their lane and begin ganking once certain criteria has been met. For example, Pharaoh will leave his lane and begin ganking nonstoponce he hits level six and has boots and a bottle. These heroes will not be discussed in this guide.

Shouldn't madman and valk farm a bit ? Especially madman ?
I think this is quite misleading

Are you sure roamers shouldn't get kills?

Absolutely. A quicker bottle won't net you more kills, but a Maliken who finishes his Shrunken Head earlier will net your team a whole lot more. A faster pair of boots might help you do more damage, but nowhere near as much as a faster Mock by Sandwraith.
This could be less categorical imo
For instance Behemoth and Magmus are roamers too, and as everyone knows they need quite an important item
I think those ones should get kills100%

For the item-independent ones this can be debatable too, I'm on the side of letting the roamers get kills because roamers don't really farm a lot and you need at least some basic items

AntiHeadSho1

03-10-2010, 04:36 PM

They're better suited for ganking if the opportunity arises.

akitoes

03-10-2010, 04:39 PM

Btw the rest of the guide is perfect just those two important details that deserve correction for the guide to be PUREPREMIUM material
I want the community's stance on this since I had made a claim to sucker some time ago about another premium guide and he just ignored it, although he said "if you have a problem with a premium guide just blahblah"

blueseph

03-10-2010, 04:41 PM

back when madman was a machine, a good madman player would participate in a ton of ganks and still be able to farm relatively well. he would be able to farm up gold very quickly through farming and ganking.

valk is a semi-carry and unless you're expecting her to carry she's very suited for semi-roaming.

i don't count magmus as a roamer. a semi-roamer, sure. absolutely. but not a roamer. as for behemoth, once mid game rolls around you should be able to farm a portal key pretty quickly if your roaming went well.

you could also have posted this on the guide and i would have responded to it!

akitoes

03-10-2010, 04:56 PM

xMarauder

03-10-2010, 05:13 PM

blueseph

03-10-2010, 05:17 PM

pretty much what he said

except in a nicer tone.

dearjohn

03-10-2010, 05:22 PM

politeness is for scrubs

blueseph

03-10-2010, 05:26 PM

i politely disagree.

xMarauder

03-10-2010, 05:26 PM

I'd use a nicer tone, but I've long since grown weary of akitoes' self-proclaimed genius on these forums...

Jayrod

03-10-2010, 05:55 PM

Thanks for the quick reply :)
The faster Behe gets PK the faster he becomes a force, so 400 to 800 gold comes in very handy imo, carries can freefarm while the enemy is dead anyway while Behe has to roam
Imo PK is so essential to behemoth that letting him get the kills to get that core item fast far outweighs the cost of delaying your carry's items
What do you think ?

Yes, which is why I hate it when Chaosmongler drops a nymph pod after I've done my obligatory autoswing on the archer creep to get the whole wave down in one swing! I played a game the other day with a nuking pyro, mongler on nymph, and me on behemoth. Took forever to get my pk

Jayrod

03-10-2010, 06:02 PM

Maybe if your team is full of slow characters who require positioning themselves, but Behemoth shouldn't be given the valuable extra gold and experience when all he needs is Bottle + Boots + Portal Key, especially when there are carries on your team (most notably TDL and Sand Wraith) who need the gold.

Also, you think Valk should farm? Why in God's name would you think that, a fantastic stun, escape mechanism and absolute invisibility make her a godly ganker. Stop playing Carry-Valk.

Honestly, and I hate doing this, but you're a 1300 EM player that averages 32 APM. Akitoes is right, and valk does do well with farm... In fact, she can both gank adequately AND find time to farm because she is highly mobile and has Call of the Valk to take out entire waves between ganks.

Where Akitoes I think was wrong was that the original guide seemed to be strictly geared towards the pure roamer role. This is a very rare role to see, definitely possible, but generally a pretty bad idea. These heros have no dedicated lane. The creator of the guide correctly didnt include valkyrie BECAUSE she needs farm and needs a lane. The heroes in the guide (with the exception of behemoth IMO because good players use wards and he REALLY needs that pkey) are either good enough to ensure success for your other lanes and still not fall too far behind or, in the case of slither especially, can fall behind and still perform their role (suiciding and getting your spells off). I would say electrician might need some items later on, but he has a good farming tool now.

xMarauder

03-10-2010, 06:16 PM

Jayrod

03-10-2010, 06:29 PM

Honestly I hate doing this, but this is my first of a few accounts, I don't play on this account and have long since finished playing EM. Find merit in what someone says, not who they are. If you apply your current philosophy to the real world exactly how far would you get? Don't judge someone personally when PSR is truly an impersonal reflection of that player. PSR is an indication, yes of someone's skill, but also who they play with, and how those players perform as well.

As for Valkyrie, she does not need farming, her ability as a ganker is defined by her ridiculous stun (when placed well) and the fantastic burst magic damage she's capable of early game. To farm Valkyrie is to waste her potential as a ganker. As the seconds tick by she becomes less and less effective. Valkryie as a ganker aims to stun and damage enemies and allow other team mates to take the kill, if she didn't she would be a carry... or support.

You can and SHOULD do both. Valkyrie lacks extreme late game usefulness without an upper tier item. She lacks mid-game effectiveness when she has no items. She is a "semi-roamer" like the guide correctly suggests. She's an exceptional ganker, but her potential should not be wasted by limiting her in this way. Also, I dont care how good of a player a valk is, you will miss some arrows. Please check out replays of a guy named Veza and his valkyrie games. I think his valkyrie games really prove my point that there is a healthy balance to strike with her to really utilize her potential.

I should clarify that my midgame farming on her consists of pushing about 2 waves between ganks if that lane happens to be available. I dont sit there and leach creeps to keep the lane on my side of the map and stay there for 3 or 4 minutes... thats only something a hard carry should do. With Call of the Valk that isn't really an option anyways.

I think my quickscraper account had some good valk games on it, but thats a smurf. I went on a valkyrie binge and really mastered her at least to the point where I can use her competitively in 1700+... I guess mastered isnt the right word, but you get the idea.

LuckyStar

03-10-2010, 06:40 PM

31334036 Hammerstorm. It's not exactly roaming early game... more babysitting simply because the kills wouldn't stop rolling in. But yeah, I roam later on too.

xMarauder

03-10-2010, 06:46 PM

I agree completely, and know how futile you can feel as an unfarmed Valkyrie late-game. I by no means doubt your ability as a player. Yes Valkyrie can return to a lane and clear it for extra gold, or even stay in lane. My original stance was that Valkyrie shouldn't farm in the same sense that Madman should, and this was where the argument originated.

So let me re-iterate; Valkyrie has excellent farming and ganking abilities and as a result, any good Valkyrie will find a balance between the two.

blueseph

03-10-2010, 06:56 PM

hurray we both agree

Decency

03-10-2010, 07:17 PM

xMarauder

03-10-2010, 07:32 PM

Your argument is invalid, both of those examples are of individuals, a likeness to PSR would be picking a player based on their team, obviously X player is inherently better than Y because their team is better, except in the case of HoN the players you side with are always different.

I am by no means an upper tier player, however I especially love the theory-crafting of most games. I don't have the hours in a week to become some 1850+ PSR God, does that render my opinion, and therefore the better part of the forum's frequenters opinions, invalid?

03-10-2010, 07:32 PM

OP, so instead of filing your complaints in that guide, you open a new thread?

Sigh...

Decency

03-10-2010, 08:07 PM

PSR's entire point is to render that difference between your teams negligible. It does a pretty damned good job at it, too.

I don't have the hours in a week to become some 1850+ PSR God, does that render my opinion, and therefore the better part of the forum's frequenters opinions, invalid?
If you have no clue whether your ideas can move from the theory stage to the practical stage, nevermind in a pub but against a well coordinated team, yes, it certainly does.

dearjohn

03-10-2010, 09:13 PM

i politely disagree.

wow how rude

xMarauder

03-10-2010, 10:22 PM

I fail to see how a team can be formed based on score determined by, for the most part luck and some individual skill. Imagine a hypothetical situation where you lose games back to back for a very long time, your score plummets, simple because you can't 5v1 every game you play. You enter a game with reasonable players, score wise your team will have the same PSR combined as the other team, however in terms of individual skill your team most likely has more skill than the other.

If you believe your own words, why not lock the forums, instead have a forum accessible to only those who play competitively, then use their insight, and theirs only to balance and discuss this game.

Decency

03-11-2010, 12:47 AM

I've already suggested exactly that, actually. Suggestions and new ideas can come from anyone, but the only real balance and the actual viability of those ideas comes purely from the top.

And I've explained a few dozen times how PSR isn't "for the most part luck," too. But I'll just link you here (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=58625), rather than derail this thread any more than it already is. Ckjy's statistical replication of PSR proves its accuracy within 100 games for truly good players.

xMarauder

03-11-2010, 01:08 AM

Unfortunately I cannot play 10,000 games, I don't have the spare time, although I'm certain someone who can play that number of games will have a well deserved PSR.

iBringer

03-11-2010, 01:19 AM

Valk is a perfect roamer, I really dont think she should stay farming.

_Archangel_

03-11-2010, 01:25 AM

I've seen PotM being used as a full roamer in DotA to great success. The level 1 five-second-stun is just too good not to roam with. Once Valkyrie's grunt + glow on Javelin are removed, she'll be a great roamer.

Madman can roam decently with runes but I too probably would probably advocate farming for him, and leave roaming to heroes like Andromeda.

gatinholsta

03-11-2010, 01:26 AM

There was a high end replay somewhere (honcast?) where a valk started roaming from level 1, so yea she's a pretty good permanent roamer, much like andro.

Liang`

03-11-2010, 01:29 AM

I just don't understand why you have to create a new thread to prove your point.

You disagree with a guide on some points. Ok.

What do you expect us to say back, good job?

Liang`

tapewar

03-11-2010, 07:56 AM

i find as a roamer i don't really die much, and if i happen across a few extra gold, I actually get a quick bound eye and hunt their wards too!

Decency

03-11-2010, 08:04 AM

Unfortunately I cannot play 10,000 games, I don't have the spare time, although I'm certain someone who can play that number of games will have a well deserved PSR.
Fail at reading. PM'ed to stop spamming this thread.

Gatin can you link to that honcast? =o Or if anyone has really high level replays (those from the guide are only 1600+), of an Electrician, Valk, Madman, or Behe roaming, I'd love to see them. Andromeda is pretty common, you can keep those. =p

Liang, he obviously created the thread for discussion. Seems like a good place to focus on a small aspect of an (as he said) otherwise perfect guide, rather than cluttering its thread, neh?

Stickyrolls

03-11-2010, 08:44 AM

I know ophelia is a jungler but she's literally the best gank hero in the game. At level one she can start her magic with one creep. I think it's best if you start in the enemy jungle for a few reasons. 1) you will have a 2 man lane there so double kill more likely 2) most people don't ward there short lane so you can move between this lane and mid easily 3) there not gonna have there own nuets warded up.

blueseph

03-11-2010, 10:56 AM

decency, i've tried finding such replays and they're very rare. i did find two but they were pre replays so i didn't bother keeping them.

akitoes

03-11-2010, 12:37 PM

Ckjy's statistical replication of PSR proves its accuracy within 100 games

Unfortunately I cannot play 10,000 games
Reported for trolling.

Anyway I think this post shows it's not all black and white, and that there are gray areas a Premium Guide could (and I think should) mention
I think this is important because blueseph has here made a post about an excellent "advanced" gameplay topic, and being premiumed its purpose is to aim for exhaustiveness.
Practically, beginners who seek to educate themselves about the game usually follow the Premium Guides blindly in their first weeks (after all they're premium right ?) so it can be pretty important to tell them about all the different valid answers to some questions.

TreeHorse

03-11-2010, 12:43 PM

I firmly believe that akitoes cannot make a post that will stay on topic.

Jayrod

03-11-2010, 12:59 PM

http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=31500693

Example of valk being played as a carry. Side lanes needed a bit of help extremely early, but that ended by the time it was really time to roam. Missed some arrows badly but I had not used her in a forever until last night. Anyways... mistakes aside, she does do well with farm.. this isnt my best valk game in terms of arrows, but anyone who has played alot of valk knows that you have to be useful beyond just the unreliable arrow (until next patch when they remove the sound and glow from it completely I CANT WAIT)

Oh, before you question the shield breaker. We had 3 slows already so I thought frostburn was unnecessary.

King_Fear

03-11-2010, 01:02 PM

The thread from general Strategy has been merged into this one.

dannyz

03-11-2010, 01:16 PM

here is me playing roaming electrician, http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=27388888
game slows down past ~16 min

Decency

03-11-2010, 06:55 PM

Not a bad game, but definitely low level even though you played against a clan. The SS got destroyed mid though, that's an interesting counter with NH's huge base armor.

bbydonthrtme

04-15-2010, 12:58 PM

anyone got a good behemoth roam replay? the one in the first post doesnt work.

`Lancelot

04-17-2010, 08:26 AM

is devourer is a good roamer?? O.o??

Eskiya

04-17-2010, 08:41 AM

My take on roaming:

You walk around with a reliable stun/disable and move to lanes where the opponent is harrassed to killable hp. It is similar to ganking, but roaming occurs at early levels and is done by one or two hero(es).

Electrician with his long disable, Glacius with his slow and immobilizer and Andromeda with her stun combined with decreased armor skill. Those are heroes suitable for roaming.

With the hero kill advantage it brings, it sadly has its downsides. While roaming, your heroe doesnt gain much laning experience, and thus might become underleveled. Warding is an excellent counter to roamers, some heroes even have skills that can give sight. (Slither wards, Scout eyes and Engineer turret etc)

Loki20

04-20-2010, 12:56 PM

Very good guide. I've seen Magmus chosen as a roamer in alot of competitive replays, and there are arguments to be made about giving him a couple of kills in order to finish an early port key.

well done.

Vndt

04-22-2010, 09:54 AM

I wonder why Slither's miniguide has no "-primary spell can possibly miss, foiling a gank instantly". It happens.

blueseph

04-22-2010, 10:53 AM

i'm actually considering removing slither from the guide. he's better served in a lane to harness his pushing power.

Hermione

04-22-2010, 11:03 AM

i'm actually considering removing slither from the guide. he's better served in a lane to harness his pushing power.

If you go early wards with slither your doing it wrong. He has insane lane control with spray/toxicity. You really can't stop him from harassing you and your partner down to half hp then with spray and his partner its over.

I've yet to not dominate a lane with slither playing this way except for rare pairings of double stun and the like. I've even controlled a swift/elec lane with slither. His harassability is so great with his nice animation cancel on his auto attack.

Thesoldier

04-22-2010, 11:12 AM

My question is, if no enemy is in the position to be ganked, do you just stay in the forest and get no exp whatsoever?

blueseph

04-22-2010, 11:47 AM

If you go early wards with slither your doing it wrong. He has insane lane control with spray/toxicity. You really can't stop him from harassing you and your partner down to half hp then with spray and his partner its over.

I've yet to not dominate a lane with slither playing this way except for rare pairings of double stun and the like. I've even controlled a swift/elec lane with slither. His harassability is so great with his nice animation cancel on his auto attack.

that has literally nothing to do with this guide. :3

My question is, if no enemy is in the position to be ganked, do you just stay in the forest and get no exp whatsoever?

there are two more lanes with the possibility of being ganked. explore your options

MANTOWN

05-06-2010, 02:24 AM

Excellent Guide, I think I might give it a go!

Ocean

05-20-2010, 03:46 PM

nice guide keep updating it :D

`loko

05-20-2010, 06:43 PM

Where's :blac:? :(

pk_thunder

05-20-2010, 06:59 PM

Where's :blac:? :(
:blac: isn't in competitive play, only 4DR used him...

Isin

05-20-2010, 07:12 PM

:blac: isn't in competitive play, only 4DR used him...

99% of HoN players, especially the ones that are reading this guide, aren't in top-level competitive teams. Also, just because a hero isn't used doesn't mean they're not viable. Everything depends on the matchup.

Kcolraw

05-26-2010, 05:44 AM

pudge can roam just as good as any other lvl 6 roamers

`loko

05-29-2010, 12:15 AM

:blac: isn't in competitive play, only 4DR used him...

lol'd

Raycrash

05-31-2010, 02:03 PM

Is it usual to end up with andromeda x/x kill:death after roaming ? :/
(x=x)

Dragnmn

05-31-2010, 02:08 PM

Guess it is, if the last stat is 2x or 3x.

Vulpes

05-31-2010, 09:00 PM

You should be happy with X/X .. usually you will end up with X/X+5

blueseph

06-01-2010, 01:03 AM

x/x is very, very good. ideal is x/0. normal is x/3x.

CallofDuty5

06-14-2010, 03:31 PM

which is fine, because in practice it never happens. in practice the team ends up having kills.

arguing over theory doesn't really change much since it rarely, if ever, happens. in practice the roamer ends up with kills and the carry ends up sitting out on a few. it's bound to happen, and not worth crying over spilled milk.

hes right, we're talking about your theoretical aim here, once actually applied you wont end up farmeless

Iron`

06-20-2010, 10:45 PM

Any chance of new replays? Or anyone else have some to reccomend?
Ones up now are from beta so they are dead now?

Vulpes

06-21-2010, 10:40 AM

I haven't watched it myself, but apparently uQt vs DWi Scrim (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=138335) featured a roaming Electrician.
It is also shoutcasted on neva.tv, if I got that correctly in the thread. Just look around a bit.

sukhar

06-21-2010, 10:38 PM

Anyone have a good roaming andro replay?

Angusiasty

07-17-2010, 04:24 PM

Great guide :) I'll try it with slither.

Theburned

07-25-2010, 03:00 PM

is rampage able to roam? he has good mobility + 2 stuns if you come from f.ex. top lane just been ganking the hellbourne and then goes down to mid and gives your mid a kill because of 2 stuns

VonL`

07-26-2010, 12:06 AM

is rampage able to roam? he has good mobility + 2 stuns if you come from f.ex. top lane just been ganking the hellbourne and then goes down to mid and gives your mid a kill because of 2 stuns

He would be classified as a semi-roamer (like valk, madman and pharaoh mentioned in the guide) since he needs atleast level 2 to have 2 stuns. I would not try roaming from level 1 with rampage, the roamers mentioned in the guide are much better (in my opinion, that is)

EDIT:

Oh yeah, and thanks for the guide. Read it a couple of months ago, and decided to try out roaming today as andromeda in an inhouse. Wasnt the most serious inhouse, but it sure as hell rocked. Ended the laning phase with 1/2/7 IIRC, winning the game easily

ElementUser

07-27-2010, 04:08 AM

Gauntlet might be able to after level 3 according to RogerDodger :O

dualscoutmid

07-27-2010, 08:20 AM

Why didnt you include magmus, perhaps the most used roamer in competive play? He can roam from lvl 1 as he has long duration stun that's easy to hit, pretty high damage nuke and pseudo blink all in 1 skill. I say he is at least as good as behe and andro at lvls 1-6, but the thing is he is very useful after laning phase too because ult/pk makes him strong initiator, just like behe.

ElementUser

07-27-2010, 08:28 AM

400 cast range for level 1 Lava Surge

._.

Also, he's a melee hero

Vulpes

07-27-2010, 10:27 AM

Why didnt you include magmus, perhaps the most used roamer in competive play?

Find me one replay of Roaming/Trilaning Magmus please. That wasn't even common with SK.

zajoman

07-30-2010, 08:36 AM

Man, after reading this guide, I tried out several games with Slither. The result? 4 games ouf ot 5 we just wrecked the opposing team. Sure those were pub games, but it does not matter. It was a whole lot of fun to just roam from lane to lane and absolutely wwwwreck their carries. Some guys even complained about it... "No, please, don't roam!" And after 10 minutes, with the score of 12:2, they got to like it.

Thanks for the guide!

GrizmoBlust

08-08-2010, 02:53 PM

Gaunlet can roam at lv one. He got all the abilities to do so. I have done it and it really rapes. IMO, one of the best roamer in the game.

lIIlllIIIII

08-09-2010, 05:49 AM

Find me one replay of Roaming/Trilaning Magmus please. That wasn't even common with SK.

vVv Open Beta Tournament Grand Finals LOAD v. 5 (http://hon.esportmedia.com/video/2010/06/02/vvv-open-beta-tournament-grand-finals-load-vs-5-ga). bkid on :magm: roamed right after he got his bottle and boots, maybe even beforehand (going from memory, just skimmed the replay to make sure he was roaming).

Vulpes

08-09-2010, 10:33 AM

vVv Open Beta Tournament Grand Finals LOAD v. 5 (http://hon.esportmedia.com/video/2010/06/02/vvv-open-beta-tournament-grand-finals-load-vs-5-ga). bkid on :magm: roamed right after he got his bottle and boots, maybe even beforehand (going from memory, just skimmed the replay to make sure he was roaming).

That is, at best, early ganking. Roaming starts at lvl1 - something only a select few heroes can do.
Magmus Stun Range, lack of 2ndary abilities, and his need for Portal Key make roaming pretty weak.
After he got some levels, and upped his stun range, he can gank very effectively; but roaming - no.

blueseph

08-09-2010, 01:34 PM

Semi-roamers
http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/3/35/Pharaohhero.gif/64px-Pharaohhero.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/96/Madmanhero.gif/64px-Madmanhero.gif http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/02/Valkyriehero.gif/64px-Valkyriehero.gif

Semi-roamers are heroes who start in a lane but leave their lane and begin ganking once certain criteria has been met. For example, Pharaoh will leave his lane and begin ganking nonstop once he hits level six and has boots and a bottle. These heroes will not be discussed in this guide.

magmus qualifies as a semi-roamer/ganker.

Sakuya`

08-09-2010, 02:11 PM

i think you play roamer a little too selfishly.

you get certain items/skills that are beneficial to you alone and not to your team. not maxing aura on glacius as quickly as possible really gimps him. glacius is all about getting rank 4 aura asap, and through roaming that's going to take a lot longer than just sitting in a lane leeching xp. roaming as him forces you to take skills/items that are more selfish and much less team-oriented.

same with andro. getting a bottle and maxing stats over aurora first is selfish.

getting a first blood and one kill over your carry is also selfish. sure you get your items a little quicker, but you don't need them nearly as bad as your carry does. stealing 600~ gold from him early game is just as bad as out last hitting him for 4~ creep waves. you don't need items. he does.

Not at all. Getting a kill on your support early game means EARLY counterwards along with wards, and a flying courier plus boots to roam even more. If you notice most competitive DotA games, they give support kills early games because if you're going to a carries lane and pushing the enemies back, he should farm 600 gold in 2.5 waves. He won't really need the 600 gold from an early kill. Sure, it's beneficial, but it would definitely benefit your team more to get map + rune + kill control

blueseph

08-25-2010, 11:34 AM

slight revisions.

ElementUser

08-25-2010, 02:19 PM

Striders = new roamer boots

blueseph

08-25-2010, 05:45 PM

Striders = new roamer boots

wow how in the world did i forget that

Loki

08-28-2010, 10:15 AM

My first time roaming with behe: 12001076
Ratings ranging from 1650-1750. It's a pub.

I got a portal key at like 35 minutes and we had 1 semicarry vs 2 hardcarries, but despite that we won because their carries couldn't farm a dime :D

Thank you for this guide. It's nice to have an alternative way to play every once in a while.

Mattie42

09-19-2010, 12:33 AM

A major requisite to being a roamer is to be strongly item independant. A hero who is expected to carry late game should not roam, because through roaming you minimize the amount of experience and creep kills you recieve to the collective benefit of your team.

Semi-roamers
... http://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/9/96/Madmanhero.gif/64px-Madmanhero.gif...

Wait, wat?

Vulpes

09-19-2010, 08:48 AM

You can Semi-Roam with him. Then you aren't expecting him to Carry, and picked accordingly.

ObeseSheep

09-19-2010, 12:52 PM

Wait, wat?

Freshpro. That is all.

blueseph

09-19-2010, 06:20 PM

Wait, wat?

he builds his cash base off of ganking. his ridiculous mobility and raw damage allow him to gank very easily, snowballing very quickly.

pwn_U_fast

09-20-2010, 11:47 AM

^^ agreed. especially effective in low tier games when you have another hard carry, and/or are lacking support or players who will help you farm (via stacking etc.)

1. stack creeps while roaming
2. gank
3. farm stacks
4. ???
5. profit

Mikina

10-11-2010, 02:45 PM

Hmm is it only mine problem, or that Andro (Match 27129614) replay isnt working?

pwn_U_fast

10-11-2010, 04:56 PM

yes its broken.

Church_

01-18-2011, 04:54 PM

More replays/Better GIFs

You should get a replay of NoVa_ (http://www.fnatic.com/players/HoN/NoVa_/) playing Andromeda because he is the best in the world with her.

PallasAthene

01-24-2011, 11:48 AM

I've been trying to play as roamer but it's not simple. I find myself having to go back to base to regen my life/mana very often and I always delay on buying even boots.

Anakha

01-24-2011, 12:25 PM

You should get a replay of NoVa_ (http://www.fnatic.com/players/HoN/NoVa_/) playing Andromeda because he is the best in the world with her.

Tarano says no.

pwn_U_fast

01-27-2011, 09:17 AM

I've been trying to play as roamer but it's not simple. I find myself having to go back to base to regen my life/mana very often and I always delay on buying even boots.

bottle/ward bottle/ferry on roamers is nice so you can pick up regen on the way to your next gank opp.

blueseph

02-13-2011, 06:27 AM

this guide is a little outdated. i'm going to give it a good revision before the month is over, so expect that little update

Truxtar

03-04-2011, 11:12 AM

That would be nice.

boboaslayer

03-09-2011, 11:09 AM

An interesting and useful guide. ty :)

ThomazxM

04-03-2011, 02:59 PM

I think hammerstorm deserves a special mentioning.

blueseph

04-04-2011, 12:18 AM

hammerstorm is too reliant on farm to be a good roamer

Beaston61

04-05-2011, 03:25 PM

BlueSeph,
Thank you for this premium guide, it has helped me alot with trying to adapt to the role of a roamer. It certainly is not easy.

I hope the update is going well.

I wonder, what do you think of :gaun: as a roamer?

Regards

blueseph

04-06-2011, 03:28 AM

if you're really, really good with his hook it could work.

but he's much better off ganking at 6/7.

Vulpes

04-06-2011, 06:14 AM

hammerstorm is too reliant on farm to be a good roamer

Hammer is not reliant on farm at all. He can use it, but doesn't need it. There is a reason for Sven being a frequent Trilane support / Roamer in Dota.
His main Problem when Roaming is his relative inability to autoattack since he is melee and his Stun doesn't travel him (like Magmus' does),
therefore he is mostly utilized in Dual Roaming Strategies where he sets up with his strong stun, gets followed up and can bash to his hearts content.

blueseph

04-07-2011, 06:03 AM

i havent really seen sven too much in dota play. i've seen lots of earthshaker, but rarely have i ever seen sven. a quick look at the past few dotacommentaries doesnt show sven up at all, either.

i don't doubt you, but it seems that sven is picked in the rare case earthshaker is banned

Epidemilk

04-27-2011, 10:44 PM

Anakha

04-28-2011, 04:58 AM

He is referencing the post that he is replying to. O______________O

reveur81

04-29-2011, 06:28 AM

May Nymphora be a good roamer ?

1- Nymphora Zeal
2- Grace of the nymph
3- Nymphora Zeal
4- Grace of the nymph
5- Nymphora Zeal
6- ult
7- Nymphora Zeal

MyLilPony

05-08-2011, 09:38 AM

slither my fav roamer but the last game i played my i ran in and slowed both of the enemy team but my teammates didnt come to meet me for the gank instead they was just hitting creeps, im still going to give it another go though

who would you say was a good lane combo to have a roamer in ? as i have 2 friend i mite try it with

memeknas

09-26-2011, 11:44 AM

roamer can fit in trilane, gank the other 2 lanes to oblivion

LoveIsDead

10-09-2011, 11:59 PM

would Geomancer fit as a roamer or is he too level dependant?

Marbles

10-16-2011, 12:26 PM

Nothing notable to mention, just thanks for a great guide.

ElementUser

10-16-2011, 12:35 PM

Geomancer is an excellent roamer. 1 point into W makes it super useful and even 1 point in Q makes his stun excellent.

It's up to you whether you wanna max Q or E first.

He's also great because the mana costs for his spells are low.

Kalki`

04-18-2012, 06:13 PM

you will be able to climb back up...but the role of a roamer is best suited for players who are good at supporting

Dasherz_

04-29-2012, 01:37 AM

Great guide except I really believe that mag is one of the best roamers in the game and shoud be include him.

Jezu

04-29-2012, 07:53 AM

Bottle is kinda luxury on a roamer (and Chalice is inferior compared to it), considering you need Marchers and possibly Striders as soon as possible, will have to buy wards and possibly upgrade the courier and should try to leave the kills for an ally. And your mid hero should be taking the runes anyways, so it's not even that useful. Power Supply is superior later in the game, and it is also cheaper, so you usually want to get one.

As far as I'm concerned, my roamer's items at the ~10 minute mark (roughly): Wards of Sight, Wards of Revelation, Homecoming Stone, Striders, Power Supply (If I could get the gold for one) and then one last item, be it mana pots, hp pots, a major totem for a tablet, or something similiar, such as a Refreshing Ornament for an Astrolabe.