PDA

View Full Version : 6 balance&cosmetic issues.



fapfapfap2
07-28-2009, 12:56 AM
Hello,

while playing HoN on a regular basis, I noted some balance issues which are really annoying me so far. With the (current) small Hero Pool, these balance issues come back quite often.

1) Nerf Concede
My first worry i this stupid concede button. Almost every game I played the last week ended up in conceding. Some teams concede when they attacked our base and were completely wiped out (even if they still have a huge advantage), some concede after 25 minutes. This feature needs some restrictions and a harsher punishment if used. When you're dominated by a team, the team will be most likely to destroy your base in a very short amount of time, anyway. So staying in the game for another 5-10 minutes won't change much. This is specially annoying if you're really in the middle of the game, and the opposite team is only too lazy to farm or to counter correctly. The concede button just makes it too easy. If someone is really annoyed by being owned or the game's not the way he wants it to be, he just leave and live with the penalty. Otherwise he should stay until the opposite team destroys your base. It's a matter of respect.

2) Nerf Bloodstone
I don't really know the HoN-Name for Bloodstone, but all I can tell is that it's a really hard item. The buff is just way too good for its price, the charges even buff it further. Plus, when you're carrying two Bloodstones, you'll benefit from the double effect (as they both stack). I've seen plenty games where a Defiler (or even any Int Hero) had Bloodstone and even used to survive suicide actions. Even in DotA, Bloodstone got nerfed shortly after its introduction.

3) Nerf Defiler
Defiler is one of the hardest hero to counter at the moment. The Cooldown of the ulti is really low, the silence AoE is pretty huge, and the wave can even stop 4 heroes Lvl16+ from entering the base (seen in 3-4 games). My proposal here would be: increase manacost for the wave or reduce the damage slightly. And: definately increase the cooldown of the ulti. 1 minute would change like a lot.

4) Buff Pathing
Seriously, this is the most annoying thing about HoN right now. The pathing is a real pain in the a**. My hero is supposed to take the shortest path to another spot, which is really not the case. Plus, the pathing of the creeps is really annoying, too. On Sent-Side, it's almost impossible to block the creeps adequately, because the archer keeps on walking by, even if you block all the melee creeps. Plus, it's very easy to pull the opposite creeps just by faking to attack the enemy hero. The creeps will follow you for a while, and this way you can pull them towards the tower and gain a damage-advantage. Here's the most work to do imho.

5) Buff Terrain
This is also a little bit annoying. The trees are located way too close to each other, especially for noobs it's really hard to detect where to hide in the forests. A place I'm thinking of is the lower lane below the first tower. The gap between trees should just be a little bigger. This is just a cosmetic issue, but I'd love to see this fixed.

6) Nerf Neutral Creeps
Neutral Creeps are a bit too hard to farm in early game, especially for casters, as they do a lot (really a lot) of damage. Maybe they should start with lower stats which increase during the game, just like the normal creeps do.

These are my first thoughts of changes I'd like to see sometimes, I hope I've explained it enough for you to understand my reasoning.
I'm open to any suggestions/discussion, please refrain from flaming, tho.

Greetings,
fapfapfap.

_Archangel_
07-28-2009, 01:38 AM
Just make it so that you can only concede after 30 minutes; 20 if you've got a leaver.

Bloodstone does need a nerf. The fact that they stack is just overpowered

Defiler is very hard to counter and is certainly a strong hero every stage of the game. However a cooldown increase of a MINUTE would absolutely kill her competitive viability. Just give her the movespeed nerf she got in DotA (A whopping 40 movespeed removed via Witchcraft) and she's fine. To counter her put some strong lane control against her and gank her hard and often, shutting down her farm. With -40 movespeed it certainly will be easier to gank her

I haven't noticed any pathing problems personally...

Trees are a bit close together and it's hard to use jukespots sometimes. O-o

Neutral AI are retarded; this will probably be fixed.

Bahamut
07-28-2009, 01:57 AM
this guy doesnt play dota at all

bloodstone got balanced by decreasing the hp/mana regen from 2 to 1.5

defiler was balanced just by deleting the movement speed bonus from her passive skill

Pathfinding DOEST need a rework

Concede option is just stupid i agree some for 5 mins autokick in base

Trees are too close from eachother and neutrals are too hard??? that's pure bullshit dude

FiNGERS
07-28-2009, 02:07 AM
1. 25 minutes would be better than 15. People aren't getting better at the game when they can concede at the 15 minute mark if they don't like the way the current game is going.

2. Agree

3. Not really sure what has to be done with Defiler, DotA nerfed Krob's movespeed but it doesn't change that much and I'd rather re-balance her somewhere else.

4. Agree, needs work

5. Agree, needs work

6. Agree, the neutrals seem so tough in HoN

Aegd
07-28-2009, 02:16 AM
I think Krobelus also had her STR gain changed. However, it's pretty much a moot point at the moment, because defilers ultimate is broken as it is. Even if she has permanent haste she wouldn't be able to use her ultimate properly because it won't keep up with her when she moves. In fact it sometimes just seem to get canceled when you run away far enough from the ghosts.

Also Defiler/krobelus is a hero you need to focus on or back of until her ultimate wears off. If you're going to assault the enemy base and she pulls her ulti, just back off until it wears of and go again. Alternatively just gang up on krobelus/defiler and kill her before she can do any serious harm. If you can outdamage her it's all good. It's a hero that can get insanely strong but it's really only if you let her farm and gear up. She won't be going around killing your entire team with only a bloodstone and boots. If she is you're doing something wrong.

Glorify1
07-28-2009, 02:45 AM
2) Nerf Bloodstone
I don't really know the HoN-Name for Bloodstone, but all I can tell is that it's a really hard item. The buff is just way too good for its price, the charges even buff it further. Plus, when you're carrying two Bloodstones, you'll benefit from the double effect (as they both stack). I've seen plenty games where a Defiler (or even any Int Hero) had Bloodstone and even used to survive suicide actions. Even in DotA, Bloodstone got nerfed shortly after its introduction.

Bloodstone wasn't nerfed shortly after it's introduction, it was nerfed when the meta shifted to a gank meta where caster carries were far more prevalent.


3) Nerf Defiler
Defiler is one of the hardest hero to counter at the moment. The Cooldown of the ulti is really low, the silence AoE is pretty huge, and the wave can even stop 4 heroes Lvl16+ from entering the base (seen in 3-4 games). My proposal here would be: increase manacost for the wave or reduce the damage slightly. And: definately increase the cooldown of the ulti. 1 minute would change like a lot.

Krob's ult is reduced by vanguard, making it completely useless, also the AI on it is broken to the point of not even putting points into the skill it's so bad.


6) Nerf Neutral Creeps
Neutral Creeps are a bit too hard to farm in early game, especially for casters, as they do a lot (really a lot) of damage. Maybe they should start with lower stats which increase during the game, just like the normal creeps do.

Centaur's stomp needs to not do 100 damage, 25 damage is what it should be. Otherwise, adjustments to AI would make it far easier to neutral.

Nerfherder
07-28-2009, 03:07 AM
All good points...

For me the biggest issue at the moment is being able to see who is on your team. Yes if you look in the mini map you can see that there are enemy heroes near you and if you hover over a hero you can seen the red outline BUT I find that generally that to a new person everything looks the same (Heroes/creep etc)
I thought that in dota visualy you could easily see the difference as the heroes were much bigger. Perhaps its something you get used to over time but I often find it hard to see who the heroes are if there are too many creep around.
I'd also like to see the red outline of the enemy heroes being a bit bolder.

fapfapfap2
07-28-2009, 06:24 AM
Thanks for all the feedback, and yes, I've been playing DotA for over 5 years.

Two things came to my mind this morning after I made this posting as well:

7) Nerd Lina
There is no real cast delay like there is in dota, the combinations are way too easy. :P

8) Fix Pudge
Using Hook, Ulti, then Rot disables your ulti. wtf?

Sorry for the short text, I'm in a rush. Will answer properly this afternoon.

tropicaza
07-28-2009, 06:33 AM
Please search the forums before bringing up points of nerf this or nerf that...many people have already made threads about it.

Glorify1
07-28-2009, 06:34 AM
8) Fix Pudge
Using Hook, Ulti, then Rot disables your ulti. wtf?

When you activate any skill - in this case rot - during a channel(ult) it interupts it. Being fixed next patch.

FiNGERS
07-28-2009, 06:46 AM
When you activate any skill - in this case rot - during a channel(ult) it interupts it. Being fixed next patch.

So Glacius will be able to cast Ice Imprisonment while channeling ulti? Or rather he'd be able to use active items?

HonStinks
07-28-2009, 06:53 AM
Change the manaburn effect to something that isn't misleading, it looks like manadrain right now which does not exist in this game (although maybe it should?!?!?!?).

Glorify1
07-28-2009, 06:53 AM
No, certain items/spells won't break channeling. Like phase boots, assassin's shroud, other spells not requiring movement.

fapfapfap2
07-28-2009, 11:01 AM
This could be a nice change for Voodoo Jester. :-)

twincannon
07-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Keep concede 15 for EM, raise it for normal mode (30?)

15 minutes in an EM game is plenty of time for the game to be completely decided.

Kry1
07-28-2009, 11:58 AM
Also Defiler/krobelus is a hero you need to focus on or back of until her ultimate wears off. If you're going to assault the enemy base and she pulls her ulti, just back off until it wears of and go again. Alternatively just gang up on krobelus/defiler and kill her before she can do any serious harm. If you can outdamage her it's all good. It's a hero that can get insanely strong but it's really only if you let her farm and gear up. She won't be going around killing your entire team with only a bloodstone and boots. If she is you're doing something wrong.

I just want to say that I really hate seeing this as an excuse (over and over) for a hero not being balanced.

Mantooth
07-28-2009, 05:51 PM
The earliest a game should be conceded (any mode) is 30 mins, and probably 40 mins for non em.

Pathing is also kind of buggy, but I think it is due more to character model size than anything else. It seems like units have a bigger model in the front than in the back; as you can run headfirst into a creep and be stuck there for 3 secs while they try to figure out what to do. I would say that the way pathing works when units collide with each other is the only thing that needs to be fixed.

Azn13unny
07-28-2009, 08:29 PM
1. This shouldn't be in the game, Lets say team takes 5 ganking heroes, your team has a 1-2 carry. Well team with 5 ganking heroes is winning for the first 30-40m So their having all the fun while other team its hell. Well at 41m those 2 carries can do something now and can win fights for their team kinda stupid how other team can Concede at 45. So other team game sucked all in all.
4. little work needed here.
5.They need to do this lots of hiding spots gone or only 1 hero can move around in the hiding spot.
6.Yea they hurt alot and smarter harder to creep at lvl 1 chen. Also which they have it to where you can pull creeps that is a huge part in dota.

_Archangel_
07-29-2009, 05:49 AM
Krob's ult is reduced by vanguard, making it completely useless, also the AI on it is broken to the point of not even putting points into the skill it's so bad.

Defiler's ultimate is reduced by HotBL? Didn't know this. Sounds like a pretty evil bug O-o

It's still a strong skill nonetheless. To not put skill points in it? Are you serious? Why even pick Defiler? It still owns the crap out of towers


Stop complaining about concede already. The people crying for later concede times just want more statpads.

Wrong. People who want later concede want games lasting longer than 15 minutes because they're sick of enemies conceding after a genocide at the 15 minute mark