Pollywog's Ultimate Underpowered? (yes)

[uto_karem]

Is it just me or does pollywog/rhasta's ultimate seem underpowered vs it's old dota self? Been shackling solo targets with it and even night hound/SA gets out even when they're underleveled.

Not to mention that staff of the master doesn't boost it (or atleast polly's name doesn't appear on the description) and it rarely ever locks a person in it when they've been cyclone'd into it.

[Fireslide]

It still ward traps as easy as before. I haven't tested staff of the master yet. I think it's as powerful as it has been.

[Aegd]

There's several problems with polywogs wards.

1. They seem to have less HP then in DOTA, and are more easily destroyed by creeps, heroes and towers.

2. They are smaller than in DOTA so it's much harder to "trap" heroes inside the wards.

3. You can escape even if you get trapped inside the wards, because they are so easily destroyed.

[kingcomrade]

They have less HP, they are smaller, it seems like they do less damage. You can't get Aghanim's to boost it. I just played Pollywog, a hero I play a LOT in normal Dota, and I was kind of shocked by how bad I did. He just isn't as good as he is in Dota. I haven't looked at the stats or anything but he definitely feels less powerful.

Of course, the enemy team had Madman and Predator, which was GG.

Oh, also:
The cast range, which was buffed pretty recently in dota, is at the old values in this game. So you have to get really close to cast it.

[Aegd]

A bit off topic. It seems that his chain lightning type spell is also nerfed. It seems to have shorter range and spread. It's harder to hit many creeps and I think it's cast range is shorter. It just seems very awkward and hard to use in comparison to it's DOTA counterpart.

[uto_karem]

Thanks for the backup, least I know I'm not crazy ;]
You can still do well with him, but he's even more of a support than ever before with his pathetic run speed and farming capabilities, definitely needs a buff somewhere

[BananaLove1]

Yup, buff the wards.

[rickster]

I read the description, and apparently the wards have splash damage? I don't recall they had that in DotA?

[Friender]

mm in dota with scepter, the ward's attack bounces, but splash? dont know
but still looks unpowered

[kingcomrade]

I read the description, and apparently the wards have splash damage? I don't recall they had that in DotA?
They do against creeps. Go play a single player game real quick and watch.

[Ki1laH]

I like how everybody says its 'nerfed'.

While it may be an image of rhasta, it was created in this game to best fit the balance, so it has not ever been nerfed.

Not to say they won't do anything to it, but you can't compare it to dota really. And I've found it to be quite usefull and not underpowered.

[CosbySweater]

Realistically I think the ult needs to have a buff from scepter

[PoopyDesires]

His ult was completely overpowered in DotA. Insta-kill without even trying, I even played him. Rhasta was ****ed up.

[Aegd]

His ult was completely overpowered in DotA. Insta-kill without even trying, I even played him. Rhasta was ****ed up.

It never was an instant kill and never will be. there are ways to get out of his ultimate. You need proper placement and timing to trap enemy heroes. There are items and skills to make that easier for you, but many heroes have escape skills that let them get away from his ultimate. It's also very easy to run away from this ultimate unless you get caught of guard.

Rhasta is a extremely fragile INT caster and can be killed even after throwing up his ultimate. The wards are also static meaning that any hero can run out of it's area and take no further damage. The opposing team can also get items to completely nullify his ultimate. Items like BKB, or use skills and items to stop interupt rhasta after he has cast his ultimate, to make it easier to run away. It's also possible to destroy the wards if there is more than one hero around (it's even possible with one hero though he will take much more damage then in HoN).

.

[_Archangel_]

They get owned by Moon Queen's bouncing attack.

[Glorify1]

I've found it extremely easy to trap people in relation to how it was in DotA, though I never buy euls, I just click at their feet and 75% of the time their trapped. The damage seems about the same, but, they feel like they attack a little bit slower.

[UrName_Sucks]

Is it just me or does pollywog/rhasta's ultimate seem underpowered vs it's old dota self? Been shackling solo targets with it and even night hound/SA gets out even when they're underleveled.

Not to mention that staff of the master doesn't boost it (or atleast polly's name doesn't appear on the description) and it rarely ever locks a person in it when they've been cyclone'd into it.

Theyre affected by auras.
get the item equivalent of vlads, or luna, and they rape

[KyuneM]

The cast animation on the wards appears to be a bit slower, but overall the wards seem like they're where they need to be damage-wise. I do think they might be a bit frail however, on account of differences in targeting/damage behaviors.

I'm not too sure how this would play out,, but giving them light increases to firing range at lv 2 and 3 might be enough to make them slightly more useful without completely casting Polly into Rhasta status.

[Niteo]

I've had no problems with Pollywog. I normally play single draft, but every time he's a choice I pick him and my K/D reaches around 14/3 without fail.

I've had no problems trapping other heroes inside the wards but I guess I haven't played smart enough opponents that tried killing them. He's definitely a mid game hero, where late game his wards just don't scale in damage compared to decked out heroes. By mid-late game I already have my restoration stone and having double the wards out in battle definitely helps create massive confusion for the enemy.

I've noticed his role late game shifts from gank/support to just straight up support. Disable the important enemy heroes and let your team gank the squishy ones. Then net whoever tries to escape. Wards with a restoration stone is also very powerful when you just successfully won a battle and took down the enemy tower before the barracks. Throw down two sets of wards and watch them tear up buildings.

His lightning attack is a bit awkward though. For example, when you cast it on the range creep in back it sometimes only single targets the ranged creep instead of also hitting the melee creeps which I don't remember experiencing in DoTA. Other than that though I think he's fine.

[rulssi]

I have played several games with pollywog and I think the wards are just fine. Hex+shackle+wards can kill any hero in early game. And how do you escape from the wards if you are shackled or hexed? Wards are just fine.

Aghanims does boost his ulti to 12 wards!

[Diomeneus]

my only real issue with polywog is his range. I never played DoTa so I have no idea how he stacks up to rasta but all in all he fits in very well with HoN and I love playing as him.

[Faluzure]

One thing I've noticed is that you have to manually force them to attack enemies. I've had to do this several times. Despite being surrounded by enemy heroes & enemy units, they just sit there... swaying in the wind like a bunch of reeds.

[bchurch]

Umm, I don't know if you guys have been playing much dota lately, but I think you guys haven't witnessed how buff rhasta is lately, especially with aghs being a smaller easier to farm pieces (no more 2700 gold to save up for squishly little rhasta). IF you make the mistake of letting him get a refresher on top of that, your base is gone in a few secs. : (

[ATPX]

His wards seem a bit frail in this game. Also, there's a multitude of bugs on them. They shouldn't be taking any magic damage, but they are. Shadow Shaman (Dazzle) can heal while trapped and itd kill the wards. When you order them to atk a hero and the hero goes out of range, the wards will not attack anything anymore, even creeps hitting it.

In DOTA i felt safe not manually ordering them to attack a trapped hero, but in HoN they seem to scatter their targetting sometimes so I always take the time to manually target now.

[GaIactic]

Trapping an omniknight in wards, watching him heal himself and destroy all your wards... just feels... wrong. You basically used an ult to GIVE HIM MONEY.

^_-;

[HellFire69]

This is another hero that needs a bit of love. Right now is wards are really underpowered. :(

[PoolShark]

-wards get insta-killed by towers+creeps. hp is too low and priority isn't the same as dota. (and random spells do damage to them ie tiny's toss and omni's heal etc).
-Lightning is almost impossible to actually hit more than 1 target with.
-he sucked in dota - no one ever played him - pollywog is god awful in HoN with the two above mentioned nerfs. 275 MS is just too low, 285-290 is far more fair range to begin with. he's so ridiculously fragile and slow that the use of his skills just isn't worth it.

[Maelstrom2]

Oh, phew, it wasn't just me playing badly.

I would like to see Pollywog get buffed, he's a pretty funny guy to play. At the very least, his Lightning needs to be fixed- it's clearly not working the way it was originally intended.

[knowitall]

-wards get insta-killed by towers+creeps. hp is too low and priority isn't the same as dota. (and random spells do damage to them ie tiny's toss and omni's heal etc).
-Lightning is almost impossible to actually hit more than 1 target with.
-he sucked in dota - no one ever played him - pollywog is god awful in HoN with the two above mentioned nerfs. 275 MS is just too low, 285-290 is far more fair range to begin with. he's so ridiculously fragile and slow that the use of his skills just isn't worth it.

lol, in 6.59, he was used a shitload in competitive games.

[Bahamo]

I have to say I agree with pretty much everything you all have said....

• They are way too fragile. A ranged creep can take one of them out in 2-3 hits.
• They decide to stop attacking every once in a while, even when there are a ton of enemy units around.
• I didn't even realize that scepter does nothing for his ult, which is utter garbage.
• Late game they hardly seem to do any damage... I just played a game that lasted well over an hour. Syllabear (forgot his HoN name) had Agility Treads, Butterfly, and Hack & Slash. I casted my wards, and shackled him. He took NO damage from it all. ZERO. ZILCH. I don't know if that was just a glitch, but the same thing happened later that game when I tried it on a Soul Stealer with Heart and Butterfly. Again, no damage was done at all.
• I've found that with the splash damage, his wards are actually better for pushing through a big creep wave... but that still isn't even worth it since you can only do that every other wave.
• The really only useful late game skill for Pollywog is his hex. Usually during late game, everyone sticks together. If you try to shackle somebody, the rest of the team will just take you down in less than a second. The wards are useless because they'll get killed within about 2 seconds. Forked lightning hardly does anything and doesn't hit enough targets. Hex is good for saving one of your teammates being chased.

That's my 2¢

[HellbirD]

I must agree, something just doesn't feel right, those wards just don't seem to hurt as much as they did in DotA. I think it may have more to do with other heroes being stronger than their dota counterpart more so than polly being weak, I'd suggest giving him a buff all the same.

[Faluzure]

Umm, I don't know if you guys have been playing much dota lately, but I think you guys haven't witnessed how buff rhasta is lately, especially with aghs being a smaller easier to farm pieces (no more 2700 gold to save up for squishly little rhasta). IF you make the mistake of letting him get a refresher on top of that, your base is gone in a few secs. : (

But this is HoN, not DotA. HoN's backbone is pre Dota 6.60. I will never play DotA ever again because of HoN.

Back on topic, Rhasta/Pollywog needs a buff. His wards need to be stronger (I've seen people just attack them despite the fact that I drop 'em and they fall in 2 his (by int heroes). Second, make them always attack. They never autoattack when you want them to. Third, make Pollywog buffable by Staff of the Master.

[kingcomrade]

Why not? It's a good game, has better balance. Graphics whore?

[Faluzure]

Why not? It's a good game, has better balance. Graphics whore?

I know it's a good game "mod", but I've supported Blizzard all my life. I will continue to support them, but Warcraft 3 is a dying game.

Time to give S2 a chance. Who knows, they might hire Icefrog full-time.

[kainen]

I think his wards need to be fixed too. Other skills are fine

[BTS0x0]

Aghanims does boost his ulti to 12 wards!

This. Stop saying the Staff of the Master does not boost his ulti. It does.

I have 2 issues with the wards.
1) They get killed way too easily.
2) Random non-responsive wards when the target goes out of range. Makes the micromanagement a little bit annoying.

Hex and Lightning are fine.

[kingcomrade]

I will continue to support them, but Warcraft 3 is a dying game.
Seems to be plenty of people playing Dota to me. What does this even mean?

I've supported Blizzard all my life.
I bet you're going to pay $150 for Starcraft 2, huh.

[Uludayen]

I've had no problems with Pollywog. I normally play single draft, but every time he's a choice I pick him and my K/D reaches around 14/3 without fail.

I've had no problems trapping other heroes inside the wards but I guess I haven't played smart enough opponents that tried killing them. He's definitely a mid game hero, where late game his wards just don't scale in damage compared to decked out heroes. By mid-late game I already have my restoration stone and having double the wards out in battle definitely helps create massive confusion for the enemy.

I've noticed his role late game shifts from gank/support to just straight up support. Disable the important enemy heroes and let your team gank the squishy ones. Then net whoever tries to escape. Wards with a restoration stone is also very powerful when you just successfully won a battle and took down the enemy tower before the barracks. Throw down two sets of wards and watch them tear up buildings.

His lightning attack is a bit awkward though. For example, when you cast it on the range creep in back it sometimes only single targets the ranged creep instead of also hitting the melee creeps which I don't remember experiencing in DoTA. Other than that though I think he's fine.

he's not for getting kills.

hes support.

[SWARM_THEM]

i think the wards should be magic immune like they were in DOTA. last night against tempest's ult, my wards were getting sucked in too! i also think they were getting damaged, i can't remember for sure. so many other characters carrying around AOE spells, if the wards aren't magic immune like i think they are, priest's ult is so easily countered.

[bchurch]

Yeah being magic immune I could definately see, but I think buffing their health would be a little overboard. Like I said earlier, if he manages to get a refresher and he drops those bad boys in your base, you'll wish that they had way less health. They are extremly powerful and easily turns the tides of pushes or to prevent pushes. Seriously, how often do you get into a big team batttle and say "hey lets ignore all the heroes and get his wards"?

While this isnt "dota" you have to realize how strong those "fragile" wards are in it when it comes to doing what they should be used for doing.. destroying bases in seconds. Given that he can drop upwards of 24 wards, they shouldnt be able to survive more then 2-3 hits at most, otherwise he'd be rolling the lanes ever 2-3 mins

I do however agree on smarter AI when it comes to the wards, and support the whole magic immunity like it is on wc3. At very least some magic resistance, that way atleast mass ward pushes could have somewhat of a counter

[Emiscary]

This is kind of a side note, but I've always thought the A.I for his wards should be changed so that they prioritize attacking heroes. It always annoyed me back in the day that I'd lose 1-2 seconds of ward damage ordering them to attack the hero I had netted. Come to think of it, it'd be nice if they just auto focused heroes you had netted at a given time.

[PoolShark]

lol, in 6.59, he was used a shitload in competitive games.
really because both of these sites:
http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=266507&st=20
and
http://dota-allstar-strategy-guide.blogspot.com/2009/03/659-dota-map-hero-tiers.html

have absolutley no mention of rhasta in any games. Multiple posters on dota-allstars have no mention of rhasta as anything other than a trash hero.
and thats including his 6.59 Buffs. The best part is that he's even worse in HoN then he is DotA and your arguing against buffing him. Why would you even want Rhasta when lion moves faster, and has an instant cast for 50% duration but double damage aoe stun, same disable, and an instant ult. Carry's are used to take down buildings not ultra-junk int's.

[Killroy]

2 things that need to change is:
1) If you select the wards, they are not going to shoot unless you target something. They should always autoshoot imho.
2) His forked lightning needs to hit all targets in front of him. Either you hit the melee creeps and not the ranged one or you only hit the ranged one. This screws up his farming enormously.

[Travakh]

really because both of these sites:
http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=266507&st=20
and
http://dota-allstar-strategy-guide.blogspot.com/2009/03/659-dota-map-hero-tiers.html

have absolutley no mention of rhasta in any games. Multiple posters on dota-allstars have no mention of rhasta as anything other than a trash hero.
and thats including his 6.59 Buffs. The best part is that he's even worse in HoN then he is DotA and your arguing against buffing him. Why would you even want Rhasta when lion moves faster, and has an instant cast for 50% duration but double damage aoe stun, same disable, and an instant ult. Carry's are used to take down buildings not ultra-junk int's.

Rhasta was unfavored because he was utterly inferior to Lion. Lion has two disables and much higher damage, and doesn't need to channel one of his disables. Rhasta was taken only for refresher -> double ward push.

Lion isn't in HoN yet.

[FiNGERS]

I have played several games with pollywog and I think the wards are just fine. Hex+shackle+wards can kill any hero in early game. And how do you escape from the wards if you are shackled or hexed? Wards are just fine.

Aghanims does boost his ulti to 12 wards!

I hit level 6 and ulti/shackle couldn't kill a Slither. Fix Pollywog please, he's nothing compared to Rhasta.

[FluffyM]

He's fine balance wise if you play him right (= support) imo, just his overall range and cast-range for wards is too small.

Also the wards' targeting seems a bit ****, arent they supposed to target what I'm targetting? So why don't they attack the target I'm shackling half the time? Messed up.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Wards were never Rhasta's biggest asset, his other three spells were :) That being said, please fix the forked lightning, it is such a crappy spell now, the AoE targeting system seems to be like 250 AoE or something in that range.

[bchurch]

Seriously, his ult is fine.. its his other skills being meh compared to lion for example as well as his poor movespeed that makes him a sub par hero.

[knowitall]

really because both of these sites:
http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=266507&st=20
and
http://dota-allstar-strategy-guide.blogspot.com/2009/03/659-dota-map-hero-tiers.html

have absolutley no mention of rhasta in any games. Multiple posters on dota-allstars have no mention of rhasta as anything other than a trash hero.
and thats including his 6.59 Buffs. The best part is that he's even worse in HoN then he is DotA and your arguing against buffing him. Why would you even want Rhasta when lion moves faster, and has an instant cast for 50% duration but double damage aoe stun, same disable, and an instant ult. Carry's are used to take down buildings not ultra-junk int's.

6.60 came out in June and the DA tiers are from January. Rhasta was used later than this. The picks/int carries changed a LOT during 6.59 competitive gaming. You can tell how badly that tier list aged by looking at Krobelus/Necrolyte/Tinker being in the second tier.

This is ignoring the fact that the list was made by some random with 30 posts.

I'm not even going to address the blogspot tier list.

[FracaDePub]

The forked lightning needs to be fixed the radius is too low

[Pzzz10uS]

really because both of these sites:
http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=266507&st=20
and
http://dota-allstar-strategy-guide.blogspot.com/2009/03/659-dota-map-hero-tiers.html

have absolutley no mention of rhasta in any games. Multiple posters on dota-allstars have no mention of rhasta as anything other than a trash hero.
and thats including his 6.59 Buffs. The best part is that he's even worse in HoN then he is DotA and your arguing against buffing him. Why would you even want Rhasta when lion moves faster, and has an instant cast for 50% duration but double damage aoe stun, same disable, and an instant ult. Carry's are used to take down buildings not ultra-junk int's.
Rhasta is used in plenty of competitive games. Rhasta was picked in the WCG Asian tournament finals. Rhasta is not a 'trash hero'.

[ATPX]

Agreed that the fork lightning is just ****. Buff the AOE please.