Genocide - The Comprehensive Behemoth

[WSLaFleur]

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[WSLaFleur]

Outdated.

[biosfear]

seems like a good guide to me! going to try it out soon and hopefully do ok!

why don't you heavyweight when you teleport in? isn't the stun from the move the best thing to do after the shockwave?

[Who8MyRice1]

Good guide, though I highly disagree with your item builds. Especially getting the Arcane Ring, it's a waste of gold. A bottle with two Talismans is more then enough for what Behemoth needs to do, not to mention scales much better later on then the Ring would.

[WSLaFleur]

Outdated.

[com1c]

some screen shots of some fissure spots would be pritty nice if people havnt played him before ^^

[WSLaFleur]

Outdated.

[Steinarvb]

Stopped reading after starting with boots

[caveviS]

The center align makes this terrible to read.

There's no reason to get more than 1 point in enrage, since all it's good for is the stun (which doesn't change with rank) and stealing tower kills from your carries (which you shouldn't do).

There's no excuse for starting with boots, on any hero, ever. Your extra 50 ms isn't going to allow you to pull off some gosu fissures that nobody else can do. I really don't know how you expect to stay in your lane until you farm a ring with just 3 tangoes.

I'm not sure I like maxing heavyweight over fissure, but I haven't really investigated that possibility myself so who knows, you could be right.


Other than that this is pretty good advice.

[WSLaFleur]

Outdated.

[dogmode]

pretty good guide, interesting item build, been thinking about a change in behem's starting items whenever i play him, i think i'll try yours :)

[GrymM]

Stopped reading after starting with boots
You're hilarious for obvious reasons.

Hilariously retarded, that is.

[Frog100]

Stopped reading after starting with boots

This and 1 level of fissure until 8

[Jimmers]

awful guide ROFL

[WSLaFleur]

Outdated.

[WSLaFleur]

Outdated.

[nyxon]

I know this build. i used to do this in dota. and got many "genocides". with right timing and portal..

I remember than my team have died (all accept me). They came to the middle to rax.. don't you think i portal/dagger there and used 2xulti(refrs ofc) and did a wall.. one word: >GENOCIDE<

[WSLaFleur]

Stopped reading after starting with boots

So, the single 0-5-10 game you've ever played as Behemoth
means you've got some better ideas?

I'd like you to share them with us.

[WSLaFleur]

I know this build. i used to do this in dota. and got many "genocides". with right timing and portal..

I remember than my team have died (all accept me). They came to the middle to rax.. don't you think i portal/dagger there and used 2xulti(refrs ofc) and did a wall.. one word: >GENOCIDE<

Back in DotA people were very insistent on the bottle/talisman build, but I
think that HoN's superior delay allows you to manage attacks
in between casts, so I find this build superior.

[Goaky]

Looks like a nice guide, i'm definitely going to test it. Big pictures ftw! (:

[WSLaFleur]

Looks like a nice guide, i'm definitely going to test it. Big pictures ftw! (:
Thanks. It's nice to hear some positive feedback. I'm glad you'll be testing out my guide.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Rofl guide.

Boots first.
No mana regen.
Fissure level 1 until game is practically decided, i.e level 9.
Not to mention that Fissure increases by 15 mana cost per level, hardly anything for the increase in damage, which is a lot more.

[WSLaFleur]

Rofl guide.

Boots first.
No mana regen.
Fissure level 1 until game is practically decided, i.e level 9.
Not to mention that Fissure increases by 15 mana cost per level, hardly anything for the increase in damage, which is a lot more.

It's obvious that you didn't bother to read the guide. Instead,
I would guess that you skimmed the Itemization icons and
glanced over the skill build before posting your inane,
thoughtless comment. You are a worthless addition
to the HoN community. Keep your senseless
comments to yourself in the future.

[vietiscool]

cool guide, i'll try that out next time but behemoth is so buff even when i use my own build i find it very easy.

i used to start with boots in dota but now i start with 1 talisman + ring -> boots -> arcane ring - > portal key.

anyways i'll try out your lvl 1 fissure build.

[DocLovin]

I hate being a elitest dick, especially since you're guide has some valid points. But... Umm.. 94.63% EM...

I btw suck at Behemoth... But still, the only hero I would say boots as a starting item are acceptable on is Swiftblade - And even on him it can be situational.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

It's obvious that you didn't bother to read the guide. Instead,
I would guess that you skimmed the Itemization icons and
glanced over the skill build before posting your inane,
thoughtless comment. You are a worthless addition
to the HoN community. Keep your senseless
comments to yourself in the future.

I understand your natural predisposition to defend your guide.

However, you are not breaking any new ground here mate. People have been playing Earthshaker/Behemoth for ages in Dota.

I've read at least 3 guides that are better than this one.

See this for example -> http://www.garena.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=33607, and compare it.

[ElementUser]

Note: So, I have yet again been attacked by a small-minded critic
who couldn't be bothered to finish reading my guide after he
saw that I'm recommending keeping fissure level 1, until
you're level 8. Taking Heavyweight first.

THIS IS A SECTION COMPLETELY DEDICATED TO FISSURE VS. HEAVYWEIGHT

Just for you, you thoughtless, insensitive bastard.

FISSURE: 125(A) / 175 / 225 / 275(B) VS. HEAVYWEIGHT: 25(A) / 45 / 75 / 115(B)

The difference between A and B for Fissure VS. Heavyweight looks like this.

(150 VS. 90) Aw, oh no, fissure won. Except that Heavyweight applies to all three
of your skills each time you cast them, so if you're planning on casting two spells
the comparison looks like this.

(150 VS. 180) Oh wow, that's looking a little better, huh? So what if I blink
into a group of enemies and cast all three of my skills at once? What's
the comparison look like then?

(150 VS. 270) Oh, whoa, that's almost double the damage you would've
gotten if you'd leveled FISSURE instead of HEAVYWEIGHT, I'm so sorry
that I questioned your reasoning.

Plus I had completely forgotten that when you level HEAVYWEIGHT
instead of FISSURE you're saving yourself 45 MANA and gaining
and ADDITIONAL 4.5 seconds of stun, best-case scenario
VS. and additional .75 if you'd leveled Fissure.

I'm so sorry that I insulted both your guide and your logic
without providing a solid argument or explanation,
WSLaFleur, I hope you won't hold it against me.

"It's fine, don't sweat it, small-minded peoples have a
hard time adjusting to innovations that they
don't understand."It's fine if you want to defend your points & your opinions, but don't start indirectly attacking your readers...it will deter them from reading your guide.

Also: why Ghost Marchers? I'd rather keep Behemoth's boots as normal or upgrade into Plated Greaves/Post Haste rather than having Ghost Marchers because it doesn't give him anything he needs. You never really talk about Ghost Marchers or boot upgrade choices.

[jay`t]

since you like line breaks
so much, please format your guide
as haiku, thank you!

[Nolifer]

Boots as first item isn't viable in non-em games. (mby for swift)

[Blockk]

It's obvious that you didn't bother to read the guide. Instead,
I would guess that you skimmed the Itemization icons and
glanced over the skill build before posting your inane,
thoughtless comment. You are a worthless addition
to the HoN community. Keep your senseless
comments to yourself in the future.

Hi, I read your guide from the top to bottom.

It stinks.

Have a nice day :)

[Ghork]

i seriosuly disagree with the boots.

also about fissure vs heavyweight its all fine and dandy assuming you always stand on top of your opponents.

however till you have portal key you should be casting a lot of fissure were you dont stand on top of people, those fissures heavyweight does abselutely nothing.

Also you say you dont need regen but if you plan on beeing melee range with everyone all the time, then you are playing against some odd people that are not attacking you.

Third, maybe you are just conserving your mana way to much and only using it for "clashes" however if you use some mana for fissure harass you can dmg your opponent putting you in an advantageous situation for when you clash, and you'll get something cool called mana regen

[Jive]

Should rename the topic "The EM-Behemoth guide" :O

[Damage]

Good guide. Personally I think fissure is better to max first. Fissure and be spammed for harassment at long ranges, and the .75 seconds on the stun is helpful for you and your team from that range.

Although I do understand your reasoning. Your build is a lot more effective in clashes, which is probably why you get boots first. The small range on heavyweight makes it so it's only useful when you're moving in for the kill.

[Aval]

I play Behemoth often, in non-em SD games. Typically I go Ring of the Teacher and Runes of Blight as my starting items, although I've had a lot of success with Mana Battery as well.

I disagree with boots first. Your reasoning is sound, but the ability to cast more spells is still more important. Yes, by taking only level 1 fissure until level 8 you alleviate this to some degree but the ability to cast an extra fissure every level or two surpasses the whole movespeed issue. Boots are an item I usually get quickly, but aren't really needed until ganking starts.

I've been interested in trying the heavyweight build for some time now, simply because the sharp increase in mana cost on Fissure does limit my ability to have mana ready whenever I need it. I can't really comment until I've tried it, but I'm afraid the theory might be flawed against good opponents. Usually, enrage/heavyweight isn't very good until you have portal key anyhow, and the strict math on damage per mana cost is flawed because of the range of the abilities. I can hit at 1200 range for a significant amount of damage, or 200 range for a bit more. Back to the portal key/enrage: Typically by the time you have portal key, you have items that allow you to regen enough mana for the battle at hand anyhow, and every spare bit of mana you have should be saved for that next Fissure. Like I said, I'll try it before I knock it, because the theory seems solid. I'm going to speculate that a better skill build would be Fissure/heavyweight/enrage/fissure/fissure/ult..... depending on farm.

As far as item builds go, I'd recommend trying mana battery starting out, especially against spam heroes. I usually go marchers/arcane ring/portal key/bracer/upgrade to plated greaves/sac stone or frostfield plate. The plate is nice, once you portal key in and ult hit the plate for excellent support and the +int is extra nice to the mana pool.

[Piava]

Skillbuild: Fissure, heavyweight, fissure, enrage, fissure, ult, fissure.

Most ganks you won't be close enough one you use your fissure as it's often the move you use to initiate ganks. Other than that it looks okey. Just remember: nulls more often than bracers and arcane is worth skipping for a bottle->fast blink a shitload of games

[Piava]

Hi, I read your guide from the top to bottom.

It stinks.

Have a nice day :)

Constructive. Oh wait, no it isn't...

[Piava]

It's obvious that you didn't bother to read the guide. Instead,
I would guess that you skimmed the Itemization icons and
glanced over the skill build before posting your inane,
thoughtless comment. You are a worthless addition
to the HoN community. Keep your senseless
comments to yourself in the future.

Actually all his points are valid. Well, most games aren't decided by level 9, if you skip leveling fissure they might be though.

[Rasui]

Should rename the topic "The EM-Behemoth guide" :O
^^^^

[NyRe]

1) No Ghost Marchers. Behemoth doesn't need anything but regular Marchers until much later in the game.
2) On paper, your fissure/HW calculations may seem great, but in reality, noone will ever let you come close to them until you get a portal key. Anyone sane who sees a Behemoth running to him will simply run away. Fissure does damage at a great distance, you want to level it as fast as possible. It's really a no-brainer, Fissure first.
3) Entirely useless Shrunken Head. You blink in, cast your ultimate, then chain into Enrage, then into Fissure. Since everyone is stunned while you do your combo, you don't need magic immunity to land it. Since once you fire it, you're nearly useless, you don't need it after, if they focus you and you die, it's for the better. The best defensive item he may get would be Barbed Armor so he can at least go down with fireworks.
4) Behemoth is an unique hero. He is melee, but has totally craptastic base damage. He's a bad laner just with it and considering how Fissure is much more effective when cast from the forest, not from the lane, he's even worse at that. Therefore in most of his games he will roam. That alone makes Bottle superior to RoS, it's much cheaper and does more. RoS is not entirely bad, but seen in no serious game with him.
5) Actually the entire luxury section is unneeded. As a roamer from level 1, he will be lucky to farm a Portal Key through the whole game.
6) Boots first are bad. Your fissure costs a lot of mana, neither is your ult exactly cheap, and you have a really bad mana pool. You need to stack up stats, then get a bottle. Usually Behemoth will be buying wards with his starting gold, but sometimes it's talismans, runes, mana pots and minor totems.
7) Skillbuild is wrong. Your autoattack damage is so bad that you won't really need anything more than 1 point in Enrage unless under very special circumstances. Spend points in Fissure and stats early, then skill 1 point of Enrage and go Heavyweight.

[ludeji]

After reading your full guide you sure seem like a confident little arrogant prick.

[WSLaFleur]

1) No Ghost Marchers. Behemoth doesn't need anything but regular Marchers until much later in the game.
2) On paper, your fissure/HW calculations may seem great, but in reality, noone will ever let you come close to them until you get a portal key. Anyone sane who sees a Behemoth running to him will simply run away. Fissure does damage at a great distance, you want to level it as fast as possible. It's really a no-brainer, Fissure first.
3) Entirely useless Shrunken Head. You blink in, cast your ultimate, then chain into Enrage, then into Fissure. Since everyone is stunned while you do your combo, you don't need magic immunity to land it. Since once you fire it, you're nearly useless, you don't need it after, if they focus you and you die, it's for the better. The best defensive item he may get would be Barbed Armor so he can at least go down with fireworks.
4) Behemoth is an unique hero. He is melee, but has totally craptastic base damage. He's a bad laner just with it and considering how Fissure is much more effective when cast from the forest, not from the lane, he's even worse at that. Therefore in most of his games he will roam. That alone makes Bottle superior to RoS, it's much cheaper and does more. RoS is not entirely bad, but seen in no serious game with him.
5) Actually the entire luxury section is unneeded. As a roamer from level 1, he will be lucky to farm a Portal Key through the whole game.
6) Boots first are bad. Your fissure costs a lot of mana, neither is your ult exactly cheap, and you have a really bad mana pool. You need to stack up stats, then get a bottle. Usually Behemoth will be buying wards with his starting gold, but sometimes it's talismans, runes, mana pots and minor totems.
7) Skillbuild is wrong. Your autoattack damage is so bad that you won't really need anything more than 1 point in Enrage unless under very special circumstances. Spend points in Fissure and stats early, then skill 1 point of Enrage and go Heavyweight.

The skill-build and the itemization are meant to synergize in a way that most Behemoth players aren't used to. His auto attack damage isn't so bad when you multiply it by three.

For instance, I thoroughly enjoy running out of the forest on opponents early game to initiate ganks with Enrage, after which, you hit them once-which you'll have time to do if Heavyweight is maxed first. Then fissure since you'll be standing on top of them. Hit them again since Heavyweight bought you the time to do so, and that should be the end of the story.

I like Bracelets, they grant him an extra 18 damage per bracelet on his enrage swings. I think I utilize Enrage more than most players, tbh. I'll have to get some videos going to show people exactly what I mean, rather than biting their heads off when they question my very controversial Behemoth build.

I've been a bit too aggressive with my idea, without providing a whole lot of evidence in my favor, I think I'll revise this guide with a more passive approach, try to re-explain my choices and give people some boring, metagame options as well.

lolz @ people who're flaming me, and thanks for your thoughtful critique.

EDIT: In your opinion Shrunken Head is only useless when you catch every hero with your stuns, I've been beaten up by one too many tempests sitting just outside my range to rule SH out as "useless"

[NyRe]

40 damage, man! Triple it and it's still bad.

[Voulture]

Does heavyweight increase dmg on whole fissure or just deals and stuns around behe? In small aoe?

[WSLaFleur]

Does heavyweight increase dmg on whole fissure or just deals and stuns around behe? In small aoe?

It will only deal it's damage in an AoE around Behemoth.


40 damage, man! Triple it and it's still bad.

Enrage will grant you a bonus +250 damage on an attack at level 25, without any bonus strength. That's in addition to your 125 base.

Stats VS. Enrage (At level 15, where you would've either opted to max stats, or enrage.)

4Pts Attribute Bonus vs 4Pts Enrage

19 Dmg.
152 Maximum Health
0.24 Hp Regeneration per second
8 Attack speed
1.12 Armor
104 Maximum Mana
0.32 Mana Regeneration per second

Vs.

+200% Enhanced Dmg. = 160 Dmg. @ LV15 w/o items, not counting base damage.

Take your pick, personally I still prefer to get the equivalent of 5 attacks during my combo, rather than having what I consider to be a minimal attribute bonus.

[NyRe]

Does heavyweight increase dmg on whole fissure or just deals and stuns around behe? In small aoe?

The latter.

[sieneh]

I disagree with the item build and your skill build.

A mana dependent team(spell spamming team) will benefit more from RoS, while you will benefit more from the reworked Nome's.(early game will be a bit troublesome, up until 7-8, after that Nome's ensures you won't run out of mana, ever)

Boots are a terrible choice as a starting item.
Power supply should also be included instead of one bracer as it is infinitely more useful.

Tablet of Command is nowhere to be found in the items list, something that is invaluable along with Dagger.
Added survivability and a pseudo-disable, which can be used for saving allies or ganking enemies.
It also doesn't have the 3 second cooldown problem that Dagger has.

The new reworked Tablet opens up so many possibilities on CC oriented heroes(Panda, Behe, Puppet etc.) people should start trying out out more often and start including it in their guides.

BKB is completely useless, as you aren't really a big threat once you blow your ulti/stuns, you're a minor annoyance at best + like Nyre said, most of them should be disabled in if they aren't, you won't be the one they focus anyway.

The skill build as Nyre posted earlier works well on paper, however in reality it just won't work, no one is going to let you come close enough to them to pull it off and you won't(shouldn't) have boots before your Portal Key/RoS(or Nome's).

Fissure/Stats works well until you get your Nome's, after that you should go with Heavyweight/1 level of Enrage until you feel you're no longer squishy and can actually benefit from Enrage.

[Green]

The guy got it right "stopped reading after boots first."

EM guide.


EM is not balanced, don't post strats for EM unless specifically stated.

[Tryptophan]

It's a well constructed guide but much of this is fixated around easy mode play. I hate to pull out the stats card but 95% EGP ...

[Hippie]

Yeah, I'm sure this guide would work fine in -EM where levels come fast and gold rolls in fast enough for you to buy boots first, but this simply won't work in non-EM games. I don't have a problem with your guide so long as you state at the beginning it's an EM guide, because this simply will not work in normal mode play.

No yelling, no insulting, just saying. And yes, I play a reasonable amount of Behemoth in normal mode and I tend to do quite well (with the occasional bad game of course).

[woodyfly]

In games with a decked out carry, I found barbed armor to be PRICELESS for 2200 gold if the game drags very late

Enemies will start to realize very fast that they need to take you down first. You can have frostfield plate and heart, and the carrier will still rape you, but with barbed armor, they get OBLITERATED.

Just my 2 cents

[avnos]

what an interesting way to play behe, i dont get to play him usually but this actually worked really well for me. I said "WHAT BOOTS" like the others, but i like it.

[PoopyDesires]

Genocide by using your level 1 boots and amazing fissure damage.

-em guides really aren't the most useful. Guides should generally just be focused around playing on all modes, shouldn't only work with one mode.

[Chickenfoo]

I have waited for a behe guide and here it is! Thanks.

[Chickenfoo]

Can someone not complain about this guide also. I think its good, and i will try it out. So if you keep *****ing, why not make your own guide?

[musicfreak]

Honestly, don't complain about flamers if you are just going to act like a dick about it. Not only is it hypocritical, but the insults are not productive in any way, and in fact make others lose all respect towards you and your guide. If you have anger issues, take it out on a therapist, not here.

Anyway, it's an interesting strategy in theory, and your math supports that, but you make the assumption that you will always be right next to the enemy hero when you start your combo. Against even half-decent players, this will rarely be the case, even with boots as a first item. If they know how to juke even a little, you're screwed with this tactic.

Speaking of boots, there is a reason the "boots first" strategy is considered a bad one: it's been through years of playtesting, and it doesn't work. People aren't saying that "just because".

[Control`]

bad guide is bad... for all the glitz and glamor of your mathematical equations trying to bolster your ego, the basis of it is still horrible. Your em guide is terribad.... /thread

[crayze]

Awful guide. Nobody is going to let you walk over to them and Enrage them to "initiate" your gank. How braindead would the target have to be? "Durrrr I see a Behemoth walking to me what should I dooooo?"

Oh right, -em. Lewl.

[DemonSouL]

bad guide. And your arrogant fallacy of level 1 fissure is just ignorance. Do you not realize that fissure has a much LARGER aoe than heavy weight? which can already been +150 damage on 2 heroes meaning +300 damage, which is ALREADY better at that point in the game. If you hit 3 which is not that hard, that's +450 damage. It is only AFTER you get portal key before you can even plan to hit 2+ people with heavyweight stun. Did you not also realize that it is VERY unlikely you're going to get more than 2 heavyweight stuns through at those levels when you do not have your portal key yet?

Arcane ring is near useless with the recent patch, you might as well just buy nome's wisdom. like 600 more goldish and has much better stats, armor, hp regen, and heal. the mana regen is only a small amount less.

[NyRe]

bad guide. And your arrogant fallacy of level 1 fissure is just ignorance. Do you not realize that fissure has a much LARGER aoe than heavy weight? which can already been +150 damage on 2 heroes meaning +300 damage, which is ALREADY better at that point in the game. If you hit 3 which is not that hard, that's +450 damage. It is only AFTER you get portal key before you can even plan to hit 2+ people with heavyweight stun. Did you not also realize that it is VERY unlikely you're going to get more than 2 heavyweight stuns through at those levels when you do not have your portal key yet?

Arcane ring is near useless with the recent patch, you might as well just buy nome's wisdom. like 600 more goldish and has much better stats, armor, hp regen, and heal. the mana regen is only a small amount less.

Actually Nome's gives MORE manaregen on yourself than RoS. Nome's = good regen on yourself, mediocre on allies. RoS = good regen (albeit worse than Nome) on yourself, even better regen on allies.

[Who8MyRice1]

Can someone not complain about this guide also. I think its good, and i will try it out. So if you keep *****ing, why not make your own guide?

So you're just supporting this guide without so much as even trying it out first?
If only we were all that naive.

[olympiakosp1]

the first time i used this build i was struggling to understand why u chose ring over bottle then later on in the game i reaslized when i kept having just 10 mana short of a genocide..which got ksed but some tempest....but i have seen the other builds for behemoth and rate this one the best one out of them all...keep the good work up =D

[Raven_Corp]

Looks good.

[Jimmers]

since when wil you have a blink dagger from level 7? fissure is easier to land and some definatley be the 1st skill to reach max level 1st.

[Forfeit]

I might try the Level 1 Fissure build, but definitely not boots first. Mana pots, and stats early, along with some runes. I usually go 2 Mark of the Novice, 2 pots, 1 stack runes.

As far as Ring vs Bottle goes, it depends on what you're doing. If you're gonna be farming a lane (which is not what you should be doing) then get a ring so you can clear waves. If you're going to gank (which you should be doing) get a bottle.

[resp]

1) No Ghost Marchers. Behemoth doesn't need anything but regular Marchers until much later in the game.
2) On paper, your fissure/HW calculations may seem great, but in reality, noone will ever let you come close to them until you get a portal key. Anyone sane who sees a Behemoth running to him will simply run away. Fissure does damage at a great distance, you want to level it as fast as possible. It's really a no-brainer, Fissure first.
3) Entirely useless Shrunken Head. You blink in, cast your ultimate, then chain into Enrage, then into Fissure. Since everyone is stunned while you do your combo, you don't need magic immunity to land it. Since once you fire it, you're nearly useless, you don't need it after, if they focus you and you die, it's for the better. The best defensive item he may get would be Barbed Armor so he can at least go down with fireworks.
4) Behemoth is an unique hero. He is melee, but has totally craptastic base damage. He's a bad laner just with it and considering how Fissure is much more effective when cast from the forest, not from the lane, he's even worse at that. Therefore in most of his games he will roam. That alone makes Bottle superior to RoS, it's much cheaper and does more. RoS is not entirely bad, but seen in no serious game with him.
5) Actually the entire luxury section is unneeded. As a roamer from level 1, he will be lucky to farm a Portal Key through the whole game.
6) Boots first are bad. Your fissure costs a lot of mana, neither is your ult exactly cheap, and you have a really bad mana pool. You need to stack up stats, then get a bottle. Usually Behemoth will be buying wards with his starting gold, but sometimes it's talismans, runes, mana pots and minor totems.
7) Skillbuild is wrong. Your autoattack damage is so bad that you won't really need anything more than 1 point in Enrage unless under very special circumstances. Spend points in Fissure and stats early, then skill 1 point of Enrage and go Heavyweight.

im sorry to say this lafleur, but all these 7 points are valid and > the guide :(

[WSLaFleur]

im sorry to say this lafleur, but all these 7 points are valid and > the guide :(

You're quite right, though personally I feel that shrunken head has some value unless you're planning on stunning 5/5 enemy heroes, or 100% every time and can guarantee the person(s) you're missing doesn't have some kind of disable.

A lot of this guide was in fact based on -em experience, but I've tested it in a few normal mode games to sate my curiosity, where it is indeed less effective, but not completely ineffective.

I'll be rewriting this guide soon.

:blac: TOO BAD, IT WAS -EM!!!

My apologies to all those I've offended with my belligerence, arrogance, pontification or other such pretentious behavior, I hope you'll all check out the new guide once I'm through with it.

[Wonderfail]

TBH I dont see the heavyweight > fissure making sense due to heavyweight relying on you being close to enemies when you dont have a portal key. If you stand next to them when you fissure you pretty much failed at blocking them and completely wasted the point of the spell blocking the ground. It does work with enrage but once again you need to be in melee range practically. BTW its fairly easy to get portal key at lvl 8-10 if you rush it. Its not necessarily worth it at this point but its nice to have incase the enemy do decide to 3-5 man push early. So yeah just my personal feelings but not my guide so whatever just figured I would throw my 2 cents worth of comments in.

[loGi]

Dude. I appreciate the effort and all, but you play EM. If one thinks EM play needs guides, he should atleast tag the guide with a BIG RED EM-GUIDE SIGN!

[Bugmeat]

I'm new to this game and it helped me increase my game insanely. I've gone from average .4-.5 per game to about a 4 to 1 k/d ratio. I may be pub stomping but I just started playing 2 weeks ago without ever playing Dota before.

Thank you.

[WSLaFleur]

I'm new to this game and it helped me increase my game insanely. I've gone from average .4-.5 per game to about a 4 to 1 k/d ratio. I may be pub stomping but I just started playing 2 weeks ago without ever playing Dota before.

Thank you.

Perhaps I should leave this guide up as a Newbs/EM guide then.

[pablofsi]

rofl boots at the beginning

[Vogard]

You're hilarious for obvious reasons.

Hilariously retarded, that is.

+2 Thumbs

[OTRawrior]

Nice guide. Personally I think boots are situational. If you are going to gank early you need the positioning, but if you are laning for longer I generally go for stats and regen.

Also your guide seems very aggressive, as you constantly rage at the readers. Calm it down.

I used this and although I got no genocides, I think I done pretty well. (By my standards anyway)

[Talvos]

I don't know guys I think going with level 1 for fissure for a bit works out pretty well, sure you don't do as much damage but the lower mana costs mean that you can use it more with less mana pots. I find when I play behemoth I put my first level in fissure and then level some of my other skills until I develop a little bigger mana pool, of course this is only my opinion, but level 1 fissure for a few levels has its merits in my opinion.

[Kabale]

I tend to go the Fissure lvl1 route myself whenever I play Behemoth, but this is because I'm fairly keen on rushing Portal Key as oppossed to roaming (in which case I'd imagine you'd want a fairly hard-hitting Fissure, and chances of being in melee range for Heavyweight/Enrage are pretty low), and my Fissure usage has much to be desired in terms of efficiency.

I try and max Heavyweight along with Enrage second. The benefit of prioritising these is both defense/harrassment against melee heroes and making last-hitting easier which is important for rushing that Portal Key.

Once I get more comfortable with my Fissure usage (both when and where to use it and getting the desired result consistently) I'd probably go the roaming route as I can see it as a very easy way to get kills if executed properly. It's just from my experience, I've done much better in games where I have spent the first 20 minutes of the game passively farming, and perhaps getting a kill on an enemy melee hero (or 2) at lvl6 who got a bit too cocky with last-hitting.

I have been in many situations where I have onloaded the 3-skill combo and attacked an enemy hero with a high-level Enrage and kill him where a normal melee hit would not have.

[Orkimond]

Starting with boots and fissure 1 (even with explanation) deffers a pup only build.
Your numbers are stupid, you will almost only ever get next to someone if you've already fissured, so you'll get 1 or 2 other abilities, and your ult is high cd so usually you'll get 1 more.

[Gabula]

Noob guide

Noob items

Noob build

[Sniffle]

I hate how much hate messages your getting , I really like your guide and i think i can play him without fear now XD

[WSLaFleur]

I hate how much hate messages your getting , I really like your guide and i think i can play him without fear now XD

Haters gonna hate.

:)


Starting with boots and fissure 1 (even with explanation) deffers a pup only build.
Your numbers are stupid, you will almost only ever get next to someone if you've already fissured, so you'll get 1 or 2 other abilities, and your ult is high cd so usually you'll get 1 more.

I think you mean defer, but defer doesn't work here. I think 'infer' would work with what you're trying to say/insinuate.

[Leyzer]

Nice guide, tryed it out worked well,
i tryed boots tangos then mana battery.

+1 for guide keep it up

[X1roX]

I hate being a elitest dick, especially since you're guide has some valid points. But... Umm.. 94.63% EM...

I btw suck at Behemoth... But still, the only hero I would say boots as a starting item are acceptable on is Swiftblade - And even on him it can be situational.


Don't forget :ramp:

[Afasia]

Don't forget :ramp:
would be better if we all forgot :ramp:

[Orkimond]

Haters gonna hate.
I think you mean defer, but defer doesn't work here. I think 'infer' would work with what you're trying to say/insinuate.

Lol, actually it was meant to be short for definitely

[Zait]

All you need is blink dagger and you win.
In all seriousness two trinkets and a bottle is all you need early.
Eventually boots and a dagger, then you win.
Shrunken Head is needed in a lot of situations

[Leetard179]

I like to just

farm bottle first, then boots and power supply.

then go straighttt for portal key. Thats all you need to rape ass and earn alot of gold.

Then I like to make tablet of command, its really a nice item on him. blink in, ult, fissure, enrage, attack, tablet out yo.

Then just wait for cooldowns to come off and drink some bottle charges for mana and blink in and stun again

[SilverStars]

Don't you run out of mana earlygame? I mean, you have to go back to base to build your mana regen items and I find Fissure is a great skill for an easy firstblood, when spammed (Laning with Puppet Master). I mean, a skill that allows you to get a stun on one person here and one person 1100 units away in the same cast. Do you just ship your mana items to you with a courier or something?

[Chicolei]

This guide sucks. I personally do:

Level 1: stats
Level 2: stats
Level 3: Heavyweight
Level 4: stats
Level 5: Heavyweight
Level 6: stats

Most often than not the game ends in one way or another. Heavyweight does a lot for my normal attack noh?

[Rordarok]

Bah.

[Chicolei]

I don't think this guide is bad at all, it's pretty valid. I made a guide myself, so what are you guys thoughts on that?

If this is valid then the Backstreet Boys must be deathmetal.

Behemoth suffers from poor survivability skills, lack of a decent mana pool and weak base damage. Getting boots first and a single Tango is like self-mutilation. How so? The OP suggests that the boots are for positioning. Quite valid indeed, although without any int boosting item or any means of mana regen you'd only get one shot at making a fissure work. You'll also lack "lane presence." Against a couple of other heroes with proper items, i.e. stat boosting items, minor totems, consumables and what not, the OP's Behemoth will never stand a chance. Picture this: I are Behemoth, I haz boots, I wan last hit tat creep. ~lasthits~ Ouchie, teh enemies hit me 1010010 times.

This is an epic failure in the making since Behemoth needs to have a succesful early game. Without that much needed succesful early game then expect your core items to come at the 30 minute mark. Imo I'd rather go to the lane without anything than going with his build. Against proper players this wouldn't work may it be EM or normal mode.

Sorry, just my 2 cents. You get an A+ for effort though.

[Yunak]

People playing only EM try to argue that this does not affect how well they play, they just enjoy this mode.

Well, each time, stupid guides like that prove that this is not the case.

A melee hero with three runes and no mana regen will be back to fountain in a minute or two because of harassment by the enemy.

Boots first is suboptimal even on Swiftblade and Rampage. You can firstblood on Swift even without boots (watch pros do it against pros).

[Rordarok]

This guide is again, really meh. Wrong items, EM builds and another thing:

Rename the topic title to: Very not recommend play for Behemoth ;ecspecially not to noobs. Since you make the guides for noobs, don't give them a wrong idea/vision on a hero.

[KobisJeruk]

i'm quite intrigued by your skill buildup (being that behe is one of my top5 and most successful hero k/d/a ratio) though like many, i dont quite agree with the item buildup particularly :Marchers:+:RunesOfTheBlight: first i-dont-care-what-all-the-rest-think and :RingOfSorcery: -> earlier :Portalkey: argument that you've thrown out
i'm not dissing you for your item choice but i'd rather stick with my more typical :RunesOfTheBlight: + :HealthPotion: + :MinorTotem:x2 + :ManaPotion: + :Courier:/:LoggersHatchet:/:WardOfSight: which serves me well in the past
but i think i will try out that max heavyweight first strat cause it seems pretty solid (i usually go 1-3-1-2-1-4)

---

although thinking about it, i think the argument of going with this strat is that you can catch up to your opponent in early game due to your boots first pick to ensure a successful enrage+heavyweight stun whereas maxing fissure first means you get higher damage at longer range (because you basically wont be near your enemy close enough to get the bonus from heavyweight) so its basically a snipe shot meaning that in order to successfully carry out this strat, i need to go boots first myself

and for the life of me i just cant see myself getting boots first on behe

[Phogue]

Awesome guide, man.

[WSLaFleur]

since you like line breaks
so much, please format your guide
as haiku, thank you!

LOL.

Also, I've done a lot of playing since this guide was written. It was written pretty exclusively for -EM; I wonder if it wouldn't have gotten a premium if I had included that incidental in the title. The addition of chalice has changed everything regardless.

Argh, also - a lot of the critique makes sense... it really does, but none of it applies to my previous -EM experiences. I never had mana trouble early game, I made stellar use of the bonus movement speed for early game Enrage kills, I used the RoS farm in order to get ahead of the game and crippled my opponents 5 man advances, but I was never playing against skilled competition and never playing with the -EM gold advantage.

I think all of this guide would still hold true and with the right play style bring a lot of success to someone dabbling in -EM Behemoth. Just my opinions.

[nimarq]

LOL.

Also, I've done a lot of playing since this guide was written. It was written pretty exclusively for -EM; I wonder if it wouldn't have gotten a premium if I had included that incidental in the title. The addition of chalice has changed everything regardless.

Argh, also - a lot of the critique makes sense... it really does, but none of it applies to my previous -EM experiences. I never had mana trouble early game, I made stellar use of the bonus movement speed for early game Enrage kills, I used the RoS farm in order to get ahead of the game and crippled my opponents 5 man advances, but I was never playing against skilled competition and never playing with the -EM gold advantage.

I think all of this guide would still hold true and with the right play style bring a lot of success to someone dabbling in -EM Behemoth. Just my opinions.

A guide suggesting boots first can never get premium I hope.

[WSLaFleur]

A guide suggesting boots first can never get premium I hope.

not as much of a sin in -EM, where consumables are less valuable due to expedient kill-condition items arriving earlier.

[much2much]

Actually, that is exactly what boots tend to be useful for,
they also really cut down on the time eaten up by your
first trip to base.


I love it!

Why not random and just buy striders straight away. You won't need any regen just run back and forwards to the fountain.

500g for marchers to run back to the fountain slightly quicker to heal all the while not gaining experience and letting the enemy farm more and your lane partner farm less.

Or 100 gold for a health potion which will save you one trip back to your fountain.

[Typhy]

I like to max fissure first, since I'm rarely right next to someone for fissure to do heavyweight damage earlygame, and by the time I have my pkey heavyweight is like level 2-3 already, so loss is minimal for the fact I get infinite mana from blood chalice spam and a few extra runes of blight. Plus, the range damage has gotten me many kills around level 7-10, and if it was level 1, I don't think I would've gotten such kills.

But to each his own. Good Guide.

[busterswd]

Your math is completely bizarre.


FISSURE: 125(A) / 175 / 225 / 275(B) VS. HEAVYWEIGHT: 25(A) / 45 / 75 / 115(B)

The difference between A and B for Fissure VS. Heavyweight looks like this.

(150 VS. 90) Aw, oh no, fissure won. Except that Heavyweight applies to all three
of your skills each time you cast them, so if you're planning on casting two spells
the comparison looks like this.

(150 VS. 180) Oh wow, that's looking a little better, huh? So what if I blink
into a group of enemies and cast all three of my skills at once? What's
the comparison look like then?

(150 VS. 270) Oh, whoa, that's almost double the damage you would've
gotten if you'd leveled FISSURE instead of HEAVYWEIGHT, I'm so sorry
that I questioned your reasoning.

Plus I had completely forgotten that when you level HEAVYWEIGHT
instead of FISSURE you're saving yourself 45 MANA and gaining
and ADDITIONAL 4.5 seconds of stun, best-case scenario
VS. and additional .75 if you'd leveled Fissure.

I'm so sorry that I insulted both your guide and your logic
without providing a solid argument or explanation,
WSLaFleur, I hope you won't hold it against me.

"It's fine, don't sweat it, small-minded peoples have a
hard time adjusting to innovations that they
don't understand."

So from what I can understand, you're comparing a Behemoth with 1/0/1/0 build vs. a 1/1/2/0 build, since apparently you're ignoring a second point in Fissure. And somehow, you have a level 4 Heavyweight stun duration with level 2 damage? Finally, to top it all off, you're assuming this level ~4-7 Behemoth has a Portkey already?

Here's how it actually lines up, assuming you can make Enrage hit AND you're close enough for Heavyweight to do bonus Fissure damage:

Level 4: 225 Damage vs. 215 Damage
Level 5: 275 Damage vs. 275 Damage
Level 7: 325 Damage vs. 355 Damage

Above is for single targets. Advantage goes to Fissure at level 4, wash at level 5, Heavyweight at level 7.

Practically, you won't land your bonus Heavyweight damage from Fissure much of the time; Fissure is far safer and far easier to land at a range, and running up to someone and hoping to hit them point blank in order to score extra damage is just foolish.

Level 4: 200 vs. 170
Level 5: 250 vs. 200
Level 7: 300 vs. 240

And even more realistically, Enrage is tough to hit until you get your PK. By the time you get it, you'll be almost maxed in both skills anyway, so the discussion is pretty moot. Fissure's just a much better and more reliable skill to level early on, especially with Chalice.