Ophelia and Creeps

[xahxah]

Now, yesterday I decided to play Ophelia (or Chen) for the first time and just went the standard Chen build in DoTA (MeK, Boots, Helm of Dominator, Necrobook).




Well, while playing yesterday, I realized HoD creeps (or Whispering Helm) creeps are not only permanent, they also gain the HP bonus of Ophelia's dominated creeps, because that skill is considered an aura. I do not know if that was intended or not, but I can see some serious balance issues with this (considering I had 10 Minotaurs running around and permastunning everyone).

[Epic_Wizard]

Ophelia is, at present, the ultimate in early to mid-game lane control. Once you get to late game the creeps just won't last against a lot of more powerful kills and heroes but with a small army of neutrals at your command the enemy may not even last until late game.

[Volshok]

Or pray you have a Behemoth on your team.

[xahxah]

Ophelia is, at present, the ultimate in early to mid-game lane control. Once you get to late game the creeps just won't last against a lot of more powerful kills and heroes but with a small army of neutrals at your command the enemy may not even last until late game.



The problem is that properly microed 10 minotaurs when positioned properly can permastun a whole team x_X

[BinAly]

The problem is that properly microed 10 minotaurs when positioned properly can permastun a whole team x_X

If you manage that feat, please, record it, I would love to watch this awesomeness!

:D

[Volshok]

If you manage that feat, please, record it, I would love to watch this awesomeness!

:D

Unless it was changed from DotA, controlled creeps don't have collision, meaning all you have to do is run your cluster into a hero and hit Tab + "Q" every couple seconds.

[BinAly]

Unless it was changed from DotA, controlled creeps don't have collision, meaning all you have to do is run your cluster into a hero and hit Tab + "Q" every couple seconds.

Oh, right, I forgot... Far less interesting... :(

[xahxah]

Unless it was changed from DotA, controlled creeps don't have collision, meaning all you have to do is run your cluster into a hero and hit Tab + "Q" every couple seconds.


And the awesomeness is that you can get 6 creeps fairly early on as Ophelia with 1400 hp each and push down towers quickly.

[Kitsunesama]

I really hope they keep this as-is.

It truly makes her a unique and fun hero that can be very useful, or almost useless, depending on the opposition.


In practice, the mino-stun chain takes some set up. The foe must be stationary for at least a second to be in range of the stomp, so unless you have someone else who can initiate and lock them down temporarily, you can't stun lock a single target who knows what the minos are capable of.


Was playing against an excellent Pyro yesterday who would run in, focus me down, flee from my pets long enough to stun them and AE them, while constantly keeping out of their range. Eventually had to run them back to base, and still lost one in the process.

The absolute best people to lure into the stun lock are over zealous single target melee range gankers who rely on hit and run or life tapping to stay alive.

I've they dont have any anti-magic items, I will huddle my minos around me, and as soon as they pop in, they are going to get chain stunned, because they always seem to like to stand there for a second to take a few melee swings in. The stealthers generally have low hp, and rely on their get-away tactics for survival, so this strategy has really ticked off some of the less skilled gankers I've faced as of late.

[twincannon]

I thought ranks she was allowed 1/2/3/3 creeps only based on skill level. If she can have 8 minotaurs, surely this is a bug?

Granted I was reading something about helm of dominator allowing an infinite # of creeps, if that's what you're talking about, which obviously is an issue that will be fixed.

[Nome]

I thought ranks she was allowed 1/2/3/3 creeps only based on skill level. If she can have 8 minotaurs, surely this is a bug?

Granted I was reading something about helm of dominator allowing an infinite # of creeps, if that's what you're talking about, which obviously is an issue that will be fixed.

It's Whispering Helm.

This can be countered by ganking Ophelia. If you allow Ophelia to farm alone until she has that many creeps, then it's your fault.

But yes, the strategy is VERY strong.

[xahxah]

It's Whispering Helm.

This can be countered by ganking Ophelia. If you allow Ophelia to farm alone until she has that many creeps, then it's your fault.

But yes, the strategy is VERY strong.


A little too strong considering the fact that she can right click on a hero and go lol at mid game. With 5-6 midgame Minotaurs you can simply crush any hero that gets nailed by the slow.



In fact, more awesomeness stems from the fact that they are all affected by the heal the same way too if I'm not mistakened (full heal I believe). Makes her army near unkillable.

[Faluzure]

The fact that you got that far with that many minotaurs means the game lasted way too long. Whispering Helm (Helm of the Dominator) has a cooldown of 300 seconds. That's 5 minutes. The fact that you had 7 (aside from your default 3) means the game was a minimum of 35 minutes + however many minutes it took you to get your initial Whispering Helm.

I do not think it is over powered nor is it a balance issue. Given the above scenario, that means you either have really good control and none of your minotaurs died, or you just ran around the forest collected them and running them back to your base. So that leads me to question how many team battles/assists you were involved in and how experienced your opposing team was. By 35 minutes, I would think that your pets would die relatively easy unless you were pushing solo.

In any competitive play, that strategy with Chen would easily get destroyed.

[xahxah]

The fact that you got that far with that many minotaurs means the game lasted way too long. Whispering Helm (Helm of the Dominator) has a cooldown of 300 seconds. That's 5 minutes. The fact that you had 7 (aside from your default 3) means the game was a minimum of 35 minutes + however many minutes it took you to get your initial Whispering Helm.

I do not think it is over powered nor is it a balance issue. Given the above scenario, that means you either have really good control and none of your minotaurs died, or you just ran around the forest collected them and running them back to your base. So that leads me to question how many team battles/assists you were involved in and how experienced your opposing team was. By 35 minutes, I would think that your pets would die relatively easy unless you were pushing solo.

In any competitive play, that strategy with Chen would easily get destroyed.


I had plenty of team battles and assists. The problem is these creeps are alot harder to kill than in DotA, because the Helm of Dominator creeps do get the extra hp also. 35 minutes in, Ophelia has mek, at least level 2 heal, and speed aura creep for you to run.



In fact, Chen's problem is that he starts becoming useless late game because his creeps don't scale well. That is totally eliminated in this game by the fact that if you were decent at controlling creeps, you should have anywhere from 8-10 creeps by late game, which means you can run in and bash towers down without a care in a world. And do remember, anywhere from 5-6 minotaurs means you are dishing out 500-600 damage AoE damage, stunning, plus on top of the Minotaur's fairly high DPS also.