Devour Ult change

[Hazh]

Currently his ult does a consistent amount of damage over 3 secs...this is bad.His ult needs to do a burst of damage every 1 sec like pudges.This may sound pointless but u loose alot of kill shots in games because of this and anyone that plays a good pudge knows that u need to rack up on your kills early as he falls off later in a game since u cant buy items to boost his rot damage.

[GamlaSonn]

Isn't it better with consistent damage? o.O

Like, if you grip him for 2.99 seconds then instead of only damaging for 2 burst ticks you damage for nearly 3 ticks

[Hazh]

Makes sense for math but not gameplay .. it sucks the way it is.Devourer/Pudge needs alot of early kills if u plan to be good late game and the way his ult is currently makes it very easy to loose out on some of those kills.

[knowitall]

Consistent damage is better in every way. It was a buff.

[Freakazoid2]

But with ticking damage, he has a chance to last hit the hero instead of being ksed by ANYTHING such as creeps, towers or players. This of course wrecks balance by giving ksing players or the team gold isntead of the player who went balls to the wall using an ultimate.

In addition, having an ult that basically adds rot damage isn't as good as having a completely new addition. 100dps + 75 every second for 3 seconds > 175 dps as far as getting kills goes. On paper, the 175 dps does more damage faster obviously, but paper doesn't always work.

[Hazh]

Thank you Freakazoid you actually sound like someone who actually plays pudge enough to understand what im saying ... its a needed change for this hero.You need kill shots on Devourer and as he said with ticking damage its far too easy to be kill stolen by a fart in the wind let alone creeps / tower / retarded players.

[FiNGERS]

Why is Devourer trying to get kills anyway? I do think the ultimate needs to see the DotA 6.60 buff in damage with the strength modifier.

[Hippie]

So wait you guys are saying you're trying to carry on pudge?

Early game he's a monster, yes, and if you get early kills you can be viable late game to some extent. But in the end it's probably better if your scout/madman/soulstealer/magebane/any other carry last hits the enemy so that they get the gold. Late game, pudge is a disabler/tank mostly. Not a carry.

[SuperStanos]

Consistent damage is a buff to the ability. Sure it sucks losing out on the kill but so does getting a minimal amount of damage because you got stunned in the process.

Think like a team instead of thinking for your own good.

[Hazh]

so by your reasoning only carrys should get kills.. could u be more retarded.

[Talander]

Try adding something worthwile to your post instead of useless ad hominems?
Or rather: Explain when it would be better to have someone else than your carry get a kill instead of just ranting?

[SuperStanos]

so by your reasoning only carrys should get kills.. could u be more retarded.

Please explain to me how it's a bad idea to let heroes that scale well with items get kills instead of an early hero that doesn't scale as well with items.

Go ahead, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

[Theworstpro]

Pudge does need items though. Pudge without a hood is just going to kill himself, and usually you need to get a lot of hp on pudge (something you can't do easily without hero kills).

Pudge needs kills, every hero needs kills.

[_Archangel_]

But with ticking damage, he has a chance to last hit the hero instead of being ksed by ANYTHING such as creeps, towers or players. This of course wrecks balance by giving ksing players or the team gold isntead of the player who went balls to the wall using an ultimate.

In addition, having an ult that basically adds rot damage isn't as good as having a completely new addition. 100dps + 75 every second for 3 seconds > 175 dps as far as getting kills goes. On paper, the 175 dps does more damage faster obviously, but paper doesn't always work.

Thing is, imagine if you channel ultimate for 2.9 seconds. You only get 2 ticks of damage in, whereas consistent damage means you get as much damage as should be dealt

[Tr1cKSt3R]

You can't control the ticks anyways so any teamate with half a brain is probably going to be able to last hit it anyways if he wants to.

[FiNGERS]

so by your reasoning only carrys should get kills.. could u be more retarded.

Yeah, that's the idea.


Pudge does need items though. Pudge without a hood is just going to kill himself, and usually you need to get a lot of hp on pudge (something you can't do easily without hero kills).

Pudge needs kills, every hero needs kills.

Devourer doesn't necessarily need to be item stacked to be useful. A change/buff to his ultimate like DotA 6.60 would be nice.

[RuCkiS]

Devourers ult should do less damage, but heal himself for all damage given.

[Tr1cKSt3R]

so by your reasoning only carrys should get kills.. could u be more retarded.


http://sinigami.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/picard-facepalm2.jpg

[Ryoma]

so by your reasoning only carrys should get kills.. could u be more retarded.
If a carry hero is around, yes, that's the idea behind it.

In competitive games you pick carrys for this only purpose, to actually carry the game and supporters for their only purpose, to support the carry.

You should watch a few replays, I remember dazzle and beast master with his summoned unit slowing and blocking the crap out of one guy for about 10 seconds only for riki to arrive and lasthit him.

In most of those games supporter tend to "suck" if you're looking at K.D ratio because heroes like Lina(Pyromancer) use their stuns and ultis to wear enemies down and not to lasthit them. The trick is to get your items without herokills.
Also, killing the enemy carry hero is much more important than killing supporters in a competitive game for the same reasons.

[NoobishNoob]

I don't have a problem getting last-hits with Dismember, if my teammates plans to ks me all the time, I'll save a Hook for that :D

[Rippsy]

I'm in two minds about this, but I usually play with friends who don't killsteal to frequently :)

I agree its harder to get that "last hit" with Dev, and he really does need the stat boost from cadavar(sp?) armour. However I quite like the rot them a while then hook them for the killing shot; which is more reliable imo anyway.

I'm honestly on the fence with this one; in pubs its certainly more needed to do tick damage rarther then a dps calculation, but then Dev wont really be picked in competitive play as he's too easilly countered.

[Zyllos]

Why is Devourer trying to get kills anyway? I do think the ultimate needs to see the DotA 6.60 buff in damage with the strength modifier.

I think this might would be a mistake in HoN. Cadaver Armor is too easy to get strength gain.

I played a game with Devourer and at ~80 minutes, I had a +strength of 60 from that ability with only a few kills. The creeps are easier to kill but gives the same amount of strength gain.

Honestly, I think Devourer is right where he needs to be. His ult and rot is fine, I would rather want constant damage instead of bursts. Devourer is a tank/gank and you will get your kills early in the game, late game, unless your sporting crap loads of gear, then the game should be over.

[Rippsy]

The creeps are easier to kill but gives the same amount of strength gain.

Creeps give a fraction of str per kill, hero kills give almost an entire point iirc?

Can someone pull the hero up and past the skill in here please :)

[Shino]

I think everyone forgets that Pudge gets Strength from a hero kill.
5 hero kills mean 5-6 str gain. This means 19x5 95hp. Just from those kills pudge is now tankier. I have often had games with pudge where we could win simply because i could perma rot and never died. I soaked up the nukes while the carry owned the team.
Pudge consistantly fails end game w/o any sort of item buffer. You cant tank on FleshStrength alone.

EDIT: if the Staff of the Master buff is applied here my point is moot. Until then, I stand by what I say.

[darkgriffin]

The best part about pudge, is when you get a large early game team. Then late game does not matter. The more kills pudge can rack up early on, allows for your team to advance faster, and potentially win in 10-15 minutes. Now pudge does not need a late game tactic. Those first 3-4 kills allows him to get another 4-7 kills afterwords. Those kills will allow the game to be finished quickly, so even if you dont have a late game build for pudge,(though there are a couple) he needs those early kills to advance the team for a win. The tick was a lot better than the dot that the new ultimate gives.

[Glorify1]

Notice how your rot makes it FAR easier to deny, because it's not in packets of damage. This is true for dismember, allowing you to kill more often with it.

[smilingo]

If the basis of this argument is that you get ks'd to much as devourer, and that you need lots of items (Such as the said hood, which is bad on Pudge. I don't care what arguments you bring to the table - vanguard will always be more beneficial with the max hp gain and physical tankability.. He already has a magic res) then this topic fails to understand what good pudge play is.

I've been playing pudge for many many many years, and if anything this mod brings an overral buff. The only points that should be brought up are:

Hook not bringing heros over cliffs, but drops them if you don't give the collision for it.
Rot cancelling out channeling - it's negatable by pre-emptive rotting as your hook is in the air, but still.
UHM.. That's about it.

The positive buffs on this mod:
Hook being able to grab a unit on its way back to you, and how you can curve the backswing of hook for better chances of getting a target.
Devour being based off true dp/s and not 'ticks'. I still don't understand your argument with that but it seems pretty bad.

[bchurch]

The problem with a suggestion like this is that its moreless all about greediness. Like others have mentioned if you stopped channeling half a sec early, you're missing a full tick of your suggested damage, all for the sake that your greedy ass MIGHT have gotten the last hit. Of course this is all assuming you intend to play somewhat competitively sometime in your career as opposed to just sticking with pubs.

In any competitive situation/team/line up/whatever, there is going to be someone that will benefit from the kill gold then you probably will.

Early game (and when hes strongest), who actually level up his str gain move anyways? Pfft. 1 point at most maybe, but thats gimping your rot damage so it's meh.

Take advantage of his awesome moveset early on, and then just do what you do best.. disable and cause chaos.

[tayuku]

Thing is, imagine if you channel ultimate for 2.9 seconds. You only get 2 ticks of damage in, whereas consistent damage means you get as much damage as should be dealt

This is wrong because many skills in DotA tick at 0.01 1.01 and 2.01 etc meaning all the damage is done by 2.01 and the extra 0.99 seconds is just for the disable.

[BLUEPOWERVAN]

This is wrong because many skills in DotA tick at 0.01 1.01 and 2.01 etc meaning all the damage is done by 2.01 and the extra 0.99 seconds is just for the disable.

if this is true, it's a nerf. if it ticks at the end (which is definitely what I think), then the continuous damage should get your more killing blows not less.

[tayuku]

http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=285628&view=findpost&p=3792152

Here you go

Aerial Shackles information;

Aerial Shackles deals the first source of damage after 0.01 seconds have passed and then at a X.02 second interval, identical to Entangling Roots with the exception of the first damage tick.
Aerial Shackles based spells (which deal damage); Dismember, Fiend's Grip and Shackles.

k i am lazy to read all posts, just wanna say that pudge needs some buffing imo

and wtf is with the hook? can't pull anyone across higher terrain? o.0

[GamlaSonn]

If the basis of this argument is that you get ks'd to much as devourer, and that you need lots of items (Such as the said hood, which is bad on Pudge. I don't care what arguments you bring to the table - vanguard will always be more beneficial with the max hp gain and physical tankability.. He already has a magic res) then this topic fails to understand what good pudge play is.


I usually rush hood (unless going mid, then bottle first) and skill rot and hook early on. Seems to work pretty fine. Gives you a more powerful early game as you take lesser damage from rot (so you can safely deal more damage) and have decent health regen. I usually get the strength boost skill after maxing the offensive spells.

[Hazh]

If you really need me to explain then ok.When u hit 7 on pudge u dont really lane or push that much.Basically you run around ganking taking advantage of hook.Pudge needs some items to be useful through the entire game such as hood + heart.When he has those yes your right he doesnt really need the kill shots to effectivly do his role but u need to get there asap or he basically just sucks.The majority of your xp+gold is gonna come from ganking people after lvl 7.Also using a hook + ult basically drains all your mana so it needs to count when they are used. I agree that your carries need to be dominate but saying that your support heros dont need kills doesnt make sense.Without them being strong enough you will still loose.