View Full Version : Forsaken Archer
Rean's Guide to the Forsaken Archer
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NmTEALncLtM/SxBIRezBSCI/AAAAAAAAAC4/Pf4zXPFvrjs/s1600/Forsaken_Archer.jpg
Hero Description
Forsaken archer is a unique S2 hero. She is very versatile hero and fits in pretty much any lineup. Depending on what your team needs,she can carry,she can push,she can gank. This also gives a big variety in item choice,but we'll talk about this later on.
Pros and Cons
Pros/Strengths:
AOE root.
Decent attribute gain.
Good attack animation.
Great pushing/DPS abilities (Split Fire, Call of the Damned)
Can apply modifiers from items on multiply targets at once.
High damage AOE ultimate
Cons/Weaknesses:
No escape/chase ability.
Channeling ultimate requires good positioning and timing
A bit squishy (just like any other Agility hero)
Base Stats
Strength: 17 + 1.7 per level
Agility: 22 + 2.5 per level (Main attribute)
Intelligence: 17 + 1.8 per level
Damage: 44 - 50
Armor: 2.08
Movement Speed: 305
Attack Range: 600
Skills
Crippling Volley
http://i39.tinypic.com/a2ymia.png
The Forsaken Archer fires a Volley of barbed arrows high into the sky, dispersing them over an area and pinning any enemy caught in their path to the ground.
Type: Magic
Range: 800
Radius: 200
Cast Time: 0.8 Seconds
Mana Cost: 95 / 110 / 125 / 140
Cooldown: 10.0 Seconds
Applies Crippling Volley to all enemies in the radius for 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 seconds.
Deals 85 / 150 / 215 / 250 Magic damage.
Crippling Volley effect:
Immobilized
This is your trademark skill. A pretty neat root with a good duration time.
Not that easy to hit with, but if it does, your enemy will be in a big trouble.
Possible to do an animation-cancel (described below).
Split Fire
http://i39.tinypic.com/msdld0.png
By drawing even more from the stolen souls she keeps trapped in her quiver, the Forsaken Archer is able to fire arrows that split into parts, striking multiple targets.
On Attack
Splits attack into 3 separate attacks. Main target takes 100% damage,while 2 others take 14 / 21 / 28 / 35% damage.
Your farming/pushing skill. Useless early/mid game. With recent buffs SUPER USEFUL in teamfights.
Call of the Damned
http://i41.tinypic.com/2w36vd0.png
With the cursed powers bestowed on her by the Hellbourne, the Forsaken Archer is able to bring the soulless bodies of her victims back from the dead to fight by her side as skeletal warriors.
Activation
Switches Call of the Damned to store up skeletons to be summoned later (when un-toggled), rather than spawning them instantly.
Switching this ability will kill any active skeletons.
On Kill
Creates an uncontrollable Skeletal Minion that will follow and assist the Forsaken Archer. Does not propagate to illusions.
Skeletal Minions:
- Have 20 max health
- Deal 14 / 20 / 26 / 32 to 20 / 26 / 32 / 38 Physical damage per attack
Skeletal Minions last 30 seconds and only 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 can be alive at a time.
-Each skeleton gives 5 gold and 5 exp when he is killed by enemy hero
http://i40.tinypic.com/72rm8m.png
Piercing Arrows
http://i42.tinypic.com/jkuobd.png
Fueled by the rage in her heart, the Forsaken Archer fires Piercing Arrows that fly straight through her target, striking any other enemies in its path behind them before it finally dissipates.
Type: Magic
Range: 625
Radius: 175
Channeling Time: 4.1 Seconds
Mana Cost: 100 / 200 / 300
Cooldown: 120.0 Seconds
Activation
Shoots a Piercing Arrow every .5 seconds that travels 1300 units at 1150 speed.
Any enemy hit takes 75 / 150 / 225 Magic damage per arrow.
Any enemies behind the first have the damage reduced by 10% per target hit.
While channel is active, any skeletal minions will automatically attack enemies within a 600 radius of self.
Devastating ultimate that can turn the game around when used in time. Good timing and positioning are the key to success in a teamfight.
Skill Order:
1. Call of the Damned / Crippling Volley
2. Crippling Volley / Call of the Damned
3. Crippling Volley
4. Call of the Damned
5. Crippling Volley
6. Piercing arrows
7. Crippling Volley
8. Call of the Damned
9. Call of the Damned
10. Split Fire
11. Piercing arrows
12-14. Split Fire
15. Stats
16. Piercing arrows
17-25. Stats
Explanation:
Crippling Volley is leveled ASAP because it is your only nuke and disable.
Split Fire is useless early because of big damage reduction when your damage is weak as well. Skip until mid game.
Call of the damned is your bread and butter skill. Helps staying in lane, has synergy with your volley also helps harassing and pushing if needed.
Piercing arrows is leveled on chance for damage improvement.
The biggest problem with Forsaken Archer's skills is that she doesn't have any scaling abilities. It means that she will lose to hard carries like Sand Wraith.
Skill usage
Crippling Volley
http://i40.tinypic.com/1t5t3q.png
This skill has a 0.8 cast animation. If you get stunned during cast time, skill cancels. Also you can cancel it manually as was described in hero overview. While cast range is 800,effective range is 1025. Abuse it to the max,arrows+ultimate out of nowhere result in a kill most of the times during early/mid game.
Animation cancel trick:
Press Q,left click and fast-hit STOP hotkey (Default hotkey is S). When you do this,animation plays but skill itself doesnt trigger. You can annoy people with this trick since they wont know if its real or fake cast.
Split Fire
First of all,guide to split fire (http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=48830) items proc by Norroar.
Its a great skill when you are pushing a lane,creep waves die way faster. But its not the only use for this skill.
In team battles use this skill to apply your attack modifier on multiply targets when you have shieldbreaker or frostwolf/frostburn.
If there are no creeps around and/or you have a long AOE disable while your ult is on cooldown-this skill just shines.
http://i39.tinypic.com/534k61.png
It can be used when you are chasing multiply heroes,if you have frostwolf you are able to slow them all with just 1 attack.
http://i44.tinypic.com/fedzy8.png
Call of the Damned
Last hit to summon them from dead bodies/accumulate charges. They copy your actions. You attack-they attack. You hold position-they do too. Useful harassment/killing/pushing tool early/mid game. When you channel your ultimate they automatically attack targets in 600 range in front of hero so they wont stay idle while you pull off your ultimate.
Landing a volley when u have 4-5 skeletons early game means enemy hero is about to lose near 1/2 hp unless he have a stun.
Piercing Arrows
http://i41.tinypic.com/2j4y0iv.png
Piercing arrows is a devastating ultimate. It has a pretty wide radius (175) and a damn good range (1300). It can be deadly if you get a lot of enemies in straight line, but if they are spread or moving, ultimate is losing its efficiency because it's a channeling ability so to reach its full potential you need to have an enemy constantly stunned. Your root only holds for 2.5 seconds, while ultimate lasts for 4.
In team battles cast volley and pull off ultimate immediately without waiting for arrows to land. With doing this trick you are winning another 0.5sec of disable getting guaranteed three seconds of painful damage (+1 wave). This ultimate works well with AoE disables, like Chronosphere, Elemental Void etc.
On level 6-10 it can be used to clear big creep waves because of rather small cooldown (120 seconds) and small damage. Also team battles doesn't happen often so early.
Items
Starting Items:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/duckboots.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/minortotem.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/minortotem.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/minortotem.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/runesofthe.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/manapotion.png
1x Duck Boots - 150
3x Minor totem - 153
2x Runes of Blight - 180
2x Mana Potion - 100
Total Cost: 583 Gold
Pretty standard, nothing more to say there. Duck boots+minor totems give you base damage for last-hitting,runes and mana potion provide you both hp and mana regen,so you can play aggressive in lane
Core Items:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/homecoming.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/itempowers.png +http://i48.tinypic.com/2n0prf8.png
1x Homecoming Stones - 135
1x Power Supply - 519
1x Boots of your choice - ***
Power supply will save your life pretty often when you are escaping. Charges give you enough mana for that last life-saving Crippling Volley. Highly Recommended.
Remember always to carry Homecoming Stones. 135 gold can save your life.
Boots choice:
:Steamboots: are carry boots. They give you +10 to selected attribute,+25 attack speed and +60 movespeed. Since carry should kill heroes instead of chasing ppl all over the map,its a perfect choice. Forsaken is quite squishy so extra HP is needed (You should ALWAYS have this boots set to STR mode early/mid game because of HP it gives) Attack speed is very helpful aswell. I highly recommend to get this boots.
:EnhancedMarchers: are ganker boots. They give +24 damage and +70 movespeed. When activated gives you another +12% movespeed bonus. If you want high movespeed then these boots are perfect choice for you. But since they dont provide any survivability you might find yourself being too easy to kill.
:PostHaste: are pusher boots. They give +95 movespeed and insane mobility. You might want to get them if you are getting really farmed and need more map control/mobility.
Items Afterwards::
Semi-Carry build :
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/frostburn.png and http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/shrunkenhe.png if there are lots of stuns/disables
Split Frostburn into
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/frostwolfs.png + http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/geometersb.png
and finish your build with http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/savagemace.png
Frostburn is totally awesome for its cost and has synergy with split fire
Geometers is the best item for ranged AGI heroes,hands down.
Shrunken head saves your life in a teamfights by making you immune to all magic damage.
Frostwolf is awesome because of cool looking useful orb and stats it gives. and again,it has synergy with split fire.
Savage mace is amazing with split fire aswell.
Situational Items:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/nullfirebl.pnghttp://heroesofnewerth.ru/static/pictures/56/items_104.jpg
Get nullfire as a counter to several heroes such as Hellbringer, Jeraziah, Hammerstorm + it helps chasing and escaping. Also benefits from split fire.
Get nullstone if you are sick and tired of that painful single target spells.
Rejected items:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/chargedham.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/shieldbrea.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/brutalizer.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/assasinssh.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/riftshards.pnghttp://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/whispering.png
You dont want charged on 800hp hero. No really,you dont.
Shieldbreaker - Same reason as above.
While Brutalizer does work with split fire, it has a two sec cooldown, which means if it procs on one arrow, it wont work on others 3.
Never ever buy shroud. You have 800 range skill and 1300 range ultimate, you don't need stealth.
Yet again, riftshards is pure dps with 0 survivability. FA cant afford it.
I've never been a fan of lifesteal on FA.
General Gameplay
Early game (Levels 1-10)
Forsaken Archer can go both mid and side lane. Your task is to last-hit and deny as much as possible,gathering gold for your core items. Set your Call-of-the-Damned on "Gathering souls" and farm. On level 3 you can try to root a careless melee hero. If you do hit him with Crippling Volley spawn skellies asap and watch them killing your opponent. Depending on the situation and your role (ganker or carry) you should either farm like there is no tomorrow or search for an opportunity to gank. Dont forget that you are a great pusher and your skeletons just eat towers for breakfast. Destroy 1st line of towers, gain fast gold/territory advantage over enemy team and proceed to mid game.
Mid game (Levels 11-15)
Mid-late game your task is to gank with team, help them with root and pull off your ultimate on chance. You should be pretty farmed already. Proceed to farm and push lanes. In teamfights always remember to position yourself properly so your ultimate can do the biggest damage possible. Your skellies drop effectivness a bit but they still eat towers. Push and destroy 2nd line of towers.
Late game (Levels 16-25)
Now all your farm pays off. You should have a plenty of hp and damage by now. Time for a final push! Your ultimate is still devastating and can destroy enemy team. Carry your team to the win!
Allies
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257082430_heroe.gifhttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257056783_heroe.gifhttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257082376_heroe.gifhttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257160017_heroe.gifhttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1258127711_heroe.gif
Long AOE disables are your best friends. They make sure your ultimate will wreck enemy team. What can be better than unloading 1800 magic damage in AOE on level 16?
Enemies
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257056855_icon_128.jpghttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2010-05/1272969822_icon_128-4.jpghttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2010-05/1273343575_icon_128-15.jpghttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-10/1255787327_andro.jpghttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-10/1255690165_heroe.gifhttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-10/1255694820_heroe.gifhttp://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-12/1259924021_965668.jpghttp://honwiki.net/w/images/thumb/8/82/Pestilencehero.gif/70px-Pestilencehero.gif
Interrupters and hard carries are your walking nightmares. They will make your ultimate useless and outcarry you late game. Watch out for them.
Replays
LOAD InHouse.26 mins (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=1037240)
Another LOAD InHouse, FA goes hard carry build. 58mins long (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=1134871)
Another high-lvl game,38mins long (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=1005016)
Credits
Thanks to all IRC guys for helping me and providing feedback
Big thanks to pk_thunder for his contributions and support to this guide.
Extreme_Cake
11-28-2009, 12:16 PM
You aren't being fair to call of the damned, it can really help you dominate a lane.
Skull4er
11-28-2009, 02:20 PM
its only usefull to kill engineers gadgets, or to push towers, however, in a lane it is one of the worst skills, cause you do not want to push, but thats exactly the thing that happens if you take this skill.
Rygus
11-28-2009, 02:33 PM
somewhat off-topic: what's the name of the mod that shows the casting bar?
Dataslycer
11-28-2009, 02:35 PM
The skeleton don't really attack unless you attack-command forsaken archer and can actually help you pull the creep line back by command-attacking a 33% hp creep.
Hack n Slash is also viable in my opinion.
Same skill build but
Power SUpply, 2x soul scream, EM's, hack n slash , then tclaw or sbreaker.
Lethe
11-28-2009, 03:22 PM
This isn't actually 2 bad.
Skill build is dead on, but I would recommend getting whispering helm.
Dominate creep, stack ancients, and then blow them away with crippling volley and piercing arrows.
FA is actually probably the best ancient stacker, even if she needs her ult to do it. Doesn't change the idea of her being a mediocre hero, but it's an aspect of her that should be looked at.
Tripwyr
11-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Ugh, I don't know where to start. No chasing ability? What do you call your long range blind immobilize? Call of the Damned is outstanding for harassment and lane control.
Frostwolf skull is probably one of the best items for her. This will come as a huge surprise to you, but dealing maximum damage is not always the goal. Forsaken Archer's split arrow gives her the potential to provide so much control to the fight, not utilizing it would be retarded.
I can't imagine what compelled you to post this.
crazysheep
11-28-2009, 04:11 PM
Shieldbreaker synergizes with Split Fire, helping to debuffing every enemy unit hit. But Frostwolf gives HP and slows for you to launch Crippling Volley and ulti. I'd say it's entirely situational in this case, both might work just as well.
Lethe
11-28-2009, 04:26 PM
Ugh, I don't know where to start. No chasing ability? What do you call your long range blind immobilize? Call of the Damned is outstanding for harassment and lane control.
Frostwolf skull is probably one of the best items for her. This will come as a huge surprise to you, but dealing maximum damage is not always the goal. Forsaken Archer's split arrow gives her the potential to provide so much control to the fight, not utilizing it would be retarded.
I can't imagine what compelled you to post this.
Chasing is only viable if you are the victor of a fight. Seeing how FA has piss poor hp, no escape mech, and an ult that is both channeling and almost useless in a team fight, you realistically should be worrying about just surviving a team fight, much less chasing any survivors.
The OP is actually right. CotD is one of the most useless skills I have ever seen. Skeletons do not provide any real meaningful lane control. Split shot should be **** too, thank god for the engine of S2 or this skill would be delayed until level 18.
And finally, her ult with huge damage potential but realistically that rarely ever happens unless you have something like a kraken or a tempest. Not to mention it is channeling. They should just rename the skill to "go stack ancients and use this skill to farm in hopes that you can carry LOL".
Any real carry will shred through FA with ease. SW, Magebane, Zephyr, Madman, tDL, Puppet Master, Maliken, Swiftblade, Chronos and even heroes that aren't typically really recognized as carries like Wretched Hag, Pestilence, Corrupted Disciple and Blood Hunter.
People are really overestimating this hero. She is ****. She can farm an insane amount of gold, but its a shame since she can't actually carry even if she has farmed alot, and I know this from experience from playing against ridiculously farmed FAs with any of the heroes I listed above.
Addfwyn
11-28-2009, 04:36 PM
I don't think people understand the AI for the skels properly, and assume that they are gonna push your lane early game.
The skels attack what you do, they basically mimic your hero's commands. As a result, you should be treating them as an extension of yourself. They aren't targetted by creeps or towers if there is any other priority, which makes them amazing for harassing melee heros that come in to last hit early game.
Yes they are more situational against enemy ranged heros, but they often can be an effective distraction as well. I've used them to make enemy heros focus more on the skels than last-hitting creeps. They only give 5 gold each, so if you can make them miss even one creep to kill a skel, you'll be a fair bit ahead of them.
You just need to be properly aware of how the skels behave in response to your commands, they do NOT just attack like your team's neutral creeps. They will not push the lane unless you specifically are using them to push the lane.
Her ult is very powerful in the right matchups. With any kind of aoe disable/immobilize it can be very powerful. Conveniently, she has an aoe immobilize that lasts more than half the duration of her ult. Timed properly, you can start the ult before the aoe lands, immobilize them, and finish the entire ult WITHOUT team support. The team support just makes it even easier.
I think FA is really underrated because of the fact that she came out at the same time as a very OP hero. She's one of my favourite new heros to play, cause she handles a lot differently (and just looks totally awesome).
EDIT: That said, I do think the ult's radius needs to be buffed ever so slightly, and maybe scale with a Staff as well.
Frostwolf skull is probably one of the best items for her. This will come as a huge surprise to you, but dealing maximum damage is not always the goal. Forsaken Archer's split arrow gives her the potential to provide so much control to the fight, not utilizing it would be retarded.
Try both builds in actual game, you would see how superiour is shieldbreaker compared to frostwolf
Volley will never help you to chase a target in 500-600+ range between you. Fly time is 2 seconds, your volley range is 950 (800+150). In this 2 seconds he can move sideway,he can outrun it. You would almost never hit your volley when you are chasing someone
added skill usage section
moved frostwolf to possible items and added Whispering at same category.
Try both builds in actual game, you would see how superiour is shieldbreaker compared to frostwolf
Volley will never help you to chase a target in 500-600+ range between you. Fly time is 2 seconds, your volley range is 950 (800+150). In this 2 seconds he can move sideway,he can outrun it. You would almost never hit your volley when you are chasing someone
added skill usage section
moved frostwolf to possible items and added Whispering at same category.
In practice i've caught a lot of runners right on the edge of arrows after routing a push. When it's level 4 it's surprising what you can hit.
Archer is my current favourite hero. Early game she has a great attack animation and ability to gank with arrows, mid game she is a great pusher and farmer with skeletons and late game she does a crazy amount of dps in teamfights by applying shieldbreaker and savage mace procs across their entire team. She's not as good a carry as magebane or madman but she adds great utility to a team. I'm not that fond of her ult though. Early/mid game you can use it in a team fight to scare them off but in all other cases autoattacking seems to be better.
XTenebrousX
11-28-2009, 09:49 PM
Completely wrong about Call of the Damned. It pushes lane (which you said Archer can't do), and can be very good for harassing. If you click to attack a tower, then quickly run back, the skeletons will each hit it once, THEN run back.
I disagree with your statement of its uselessness.
In practice i've caught a lot of runners right on the edge of arrows after routing a push. When it's level 4 it's surprising what you can hit.
Thats what makes me sad about FA, that she doesnt have a MS boost to land a guaranteed hit with Volley. atm its luck dependant
Completely wrong about Call of the Damned. It pushes lane (which you said Archer can't do), and can be very good for harassing. If you click to attack a tower, then quickly run back, the skeletons will each hit it once, THEN run back.
I disagree with your statement of its uselessness.
i didnt say archer cant push a lane. you are a semi-carry,you need gold. why do u want to push a lane and reduce your own gold income? if you push it too deep,you cant stay at lane and farm safely. you cant go to jungle too,because your damage output early is low and skeletons does not tank neutrals. So you just go to another lane stealing other people farm? its a very bad thing to do.
When you push a tower,you do it in a group. No one would ever let you solo tower. And Skeletons can backfire,when you cannot destroy a tower because whole enemy team is there,and skeletons attack it so it can be denied.
I am not talking about how skeletons give out your position when you are escaping or ganking or roaming around map. Its a very bad skill right now
or it forces you to go ghost marchers for positioning, and I think it's pretty obvious the problems with that item on FA.
Addfwyn
11-28-2009, 09:59 PM
When you push a tower,you do it in a group. No one would ever let you solo tower. And Skeletons can backfire,when you cannot destroy a tower because whole enemy team is there,and skeletons attack it so it can be denied.
.
Again, use the skill before you condemn it, if skeletons are attacking tower it is because you issue an attack command on the tower. As soon as you stop attacking the tower, they also will. So if you won't be able to drop the tower and don't want it to get low enough to be denied, just stop attacking it.
Skeletons are an extension of your hero basically, they mime the same command you give to your hero. That's why they will all attack the same creep as the one you are hitting.
or it forces you to go ghost marchers for positioning, and I think it's pretty obvious the problems with that item on FA.
the problem is that everyone goes Ghost Marchers nowadays. it doesnt help you in any way because enemy have them too. your movespeed is not 320 like magebane,its only 305. 5 above average.
and if you go steamboots,you are always outrunned.
Again, use the skill before you condemn it, if skeletons are attacking tower it is because you issue an attack command on the tower. As soon as you stop attacking the tower, they also will. So if you won't be able to drop the tower and don't want it to get low enough to be denied, just stop attacking it.
Skeletons are an extension of your hero basically, they mime the same command you give to your hero. That's why they will all attack the same creep as the one you are hitting.
then explain why they autoattack creeps when i dont command them to. This skill doesnt even have a toggle so i can turn it off. if u level it early,they push a lane. i repeat, pushing lane early is a BAD BAD BAD BAD thing to do. you need gold. pushing lane early is not worth a possibility to take down tower faster. and mid-late game they are just useless.
TomKat
11-29-2009, 10:37 AM
I disagree with quite a lot of this guide.
1. Call of the Damned is great for harassing. It's a bit like Defiler's ulti, in that they run to whatever you are targetting. Sure, there isn't THAT mcuh control on them, but if you stun an enemy hero and target them then you can block them in and pummel them down much more if you have a few skellies to help you.
2. I go for the Ghost Marchers with her. If you're in a teamfight and an enemy hero runs, then you can burn ahead and pop your stun right in front of where an enemy is going to be. Then your whole team has time to catch up. Steamboots are just too damn slow at the moment ( +60 is rubbish)
3. Frostwolf Skull is amazing. You can decimate a whole team with it, as your hero is just slowing 3 enemy heroes down at a time. You can just sit back and watch. Combine this with your ghostmarchers and your stun and you have so much control over teamfights. It does take a lot of farming, but it isn't difficult to get lots of money very quickly with this hero.
4. This is more of a question - are you sure lifesteal doesn't work with her multi-shot skill? The animation definitely works. I haven't bothered to look at it in detail.
5. Her ulti is weird - I've found times when it works really well and times when it's pretty useless. It's kind of like a DOT AOE in some ways. It'd work well with tempest/magmus/behemoth etc I expect.
TomKat
11-29-2009, 10:38 AM
then explain why they autoattack creeps when i dont command them to. This skill doesnt even have a toggle so i can turn it off. if u level it early,they push a lane. i repeat, pushing lane early is a BAD BAD BAD BAD thing to do. you need gold. pushing lane early is not worth a possibility to take down tower faster. and mid-late game they are just useless.
You aren't using them properly then. Click your hero to move somewhere and the skellies will follow her. If you just click "Hold" and stand still, they'll go for the nearest target. You can use them to harass enemy heroes when laning without really doing much except clicking on the hero then moving away before the enemy creeps come for you.
xXGreg014Xx
11-29-2009, 11:28 AM
wow this is a bad guide and how does she have a bad pushing skill with split arrows but you say shes good at pushing... what a scrub this is a "Terribad" guide.(period)
and charged hammer is a must on her along with wingbow and savage mace and one more thing she is one of the best carries in the game.
Zarycks
11-29-2009, 06:58 PM
wow this is a bad guide and how does she have a bad pushing skill with split arrows but you say shes good at pushing... what a scrub this is a "Terribad" guide.(period)
and charged hammer is a must on her along with wingbow and savage mace and one more thing she is one of the best carries in the game.
theres is so much fail in this post
I disagree with quite a lot of this guide.
1. Call of the Damned is great for harassing. It's a bit like Defiler's ulti, in that they run to whatever you are targetting. Sure, there isn't THAT mcuh control on them, but if you stun an enemy hero and target them then you can block them in and pummel them down much more if you have a few skellies to help you.
2. I go for the Ghost Marchers with her. If you're in a teamfight and an enemy hero runs, then you can burn ahead and pop your stun right in front of where an enemy is going to be. Then your whole team has time to catch up. Steamboots are just too damn slow at the moment ( +60 is rubbish)
3. Frostwolf Skull is amazing. You can decimate a whole team with it, as your hero is just slowing 3 enemy heroes down at a time. You can just sit back and watch. Combine this with your ghostmarchers and your stun and you have so much control over teamfights. It does take a lot of farming, but it isn't difficult to get lots of money very quickly with this hero.
4. This is more of a question - are you sure lifesteal doesn't work with her multi-shot skill? The animation definitely works. I haven't bothered to look at it in detail.
5. Her ulti is weird - I've found times when it works really well and times when it's pretty useless. It's kind of like a DOT AOE in some ways. It'd work well with tempest/magmus/behemoth etc I expect.
1)look below
2)Totally depends on your playstyle. Btw i should mention this in guide,thanks
3)I tried it,didnt like it at all. I said that its a possible item. whats the problem?
4)Yes,i checked it. Only animation is shown,actual lifesteal goes only from main arrow
5)Agreed
You aren't using them properly then. Click your hero to move somewhere and the skellies will follow her. If you just click "Hold" and stand still, they'll go for the nearest target. You can use them to harass enemy heroes when laning without really doing much except clicking on the hero then moving away before the enemy creeps come for you.
you dont look deeper in this problem.
Ok,they CAN be good for harassing. still it doesnt solve this main problem with them:
1)they are totally useless past early. i HIGHLY DOUBT you would ever kill/harass to death some1 with them in laning phase too.
2)they give out your presence in ganks if you are scanning forest because they move too slow and always far away from hero. especially with enchanced
3)If you need to escape,again they PWN you in da face,enemies can just follow skeletons.
If they had a toggle,where u could kill them instantly then yes,i'd level it early for this small piece of harassing. Hey,harrasing is never bad! BUT its not worth problems with ganking and juking
You aren't using them properly then. Click your hero to move somewhere and the skellies will follow her. If you just click "Hold" and stand still, they'll go for the nearest target. You can use them to harass enemy heroes when laning without really doing much except clicking on the hero then moving away before the enemy creeps come for you.
Again,atm they have bad AI,no toggle and a very limited use. Its not worth leveling it now. Stats are better.
Ok,i compared Steamboots and Ghost marchers
1x soulscream,shieldbreaker and savage mace +
Ghost marchers: Damage/Sec: 341.36
Steamboots: Damage/Sec: 346.76
5dps is not worth being super slow. fixed that in my guide now
Zachara1
11-30-2009, 02:32 AM
With Call of the Damned I find that you can use the bad AI to your advantage.
If you right-click to attack a hero the skelletons will run over and start beating. You don't actually have to attack, just right-click until they are on the way then click somewhere else. The skelletons will continue to get a few bashes in before the realise you're not attacking the target.
This can be very powerful in the laning phase and if done right can push down a tower fast (I've seen someone using Call push down mid tower in 7 minutes).
Obviously you prefer not to use the skelletons, your call, everyone has their preferances.
But you can't say that it is a "Fun and Useless" skill when it is quite apparent that it can be used effectively.
again,fast tower means you will feel lack of gold. you are not a roamer hero,you are a semi-carry. you need gold,you need lvl 11. fast tower denies a lot of gold and a lot of exp + u lose a lane where u can farm freely, u lose possible kills from mid ganking. its a bad bad thing. yes,you harassed,ok. now you destroyed a tower and let them farm freely. now they gain back all gold you denied from them with harassing.
Early,you should stay in lane as long as you can. Fast shieldbreaker can be gamebreaking
I love this build, i use it every game and i usually go about 3:1 kd - somewhere about 15 kills and 5 deaths.
The steamboots are nice for stats and attack speed but i am going to try ghost marchers for her extra chase ability because I have noticed a couple times i cant catch up to people to volley because i cant run quick enough
One tip though for Forsaken is PRACTICE YOUR VOLLEY. If you can get volley down to an art, its such an imba hero. XD
lLOlBO
11-30-2009, 02:56 PM
somewhat off-topic: what's the name of the mod that shows the casting bar?
it isnt a mod, its in the options :P
TurpinoS
11-30-2009, 06:24 PM
wow this is a bad guide and how does she have a bad pushing skill with split arrows but you say shes good at pushing... what a scrub this is a "Terribad" guide.(period)
and charged hammer is a must on her along with wingbow and savage mace and one more thing she is one of the best carries in the game.
This guy is hilarious.
Would probaly go with something like Nullfire blade as first item so she can land her volley each time and play her a little bit like valkyrie but hey...Ill give you a good thumbs up because you take call of the damned at 22-25 which is exactly what everyone should do
fatrend1
11-30-2009, 06:32 PM
Forsaken Archers best friends are chronos and tempest. :)
legacy800
12-01-2009, 05:31 AM
Call of the damned is pretty bad, but it makes for some good laughs against a devourer trying to hook you lawl.
Call of the damned is pretty bad, but it makes for some good laughs against a devourer trying to hook you lawl.
btw yes,will mention this in my guide till its fixed
i tried valk arrows too,doesnt work.
crazysheep
12-01-2009, 08:58 AM
Fast Shieldbreaker is gamebreaking. On the other hand, I think you might be underestimating her pushing ability once she gets Shieldbreaker. Her skels and Split Fire work with each other to take out creepwaves and towers pretty fast.
Fast Shieldbreaker is gamebreaking. On the other hand, I think you might be underestimating her pushing ability once she gets Shieldbreaker. Her skels and Split Fire work with each other to take out creepwaves and towers pretty fast.
i said exactly same thing in my guide,no?
Lacrymosa
12-01-2009, 10:16 AM
I thought it was funny because each time I played with forsaken archer throughout the game I thought I was playing easy mode from the amount of gold I brought back to the well. I'd say roughly 5k each time.
Qwernakus
12-01-2009, 10:27 AM
If you level Call of the Damned against devourers Hook, you might consider making a note about valkyries Javelin too.
TomKat
12-01-2009, 03:28 PM
Thanks for investigatign the lifesteal Rean. I'll take that off my build order for her now :D
Agree to disagree about Call of the Damned, I guess ;)
If you level Call of the Damned against devourers Hook, you might consider making a note about valkyries Javelin too.
done
Santoriin
12-02-2009, 01:13 AM
i dont understand why your dream build has shieldbreaker and harkon's, though i guess you never get to have the full build anyways?
you are support dps,not main carry.
Both shieldbreaker and harkons give a huge boost in damage for both phys dps and magic dps guys in your team. whole team doing more damage is WAY WAY WAY WAY better than 1 person doing more damage
and yes,thats why its called "dream"
u wont be able to get 20k+ gold items in any normal game
added a note that you are able to do animation cancel on Crippling Volley
Nordoix
12-02-2009, 08:10 AM
This post has so many stupid "points" that I can only pick few of them.
Enemies
I wont list enemies because almost all of them are dangerous for you.
WHAT? Enemies are dangerous?.... what?
"Don't get geometers bane cus illusions dosnt get split fire"
wow, you'd really like another 33% of ur 70% main damage. Really good.
Not all people are born in US/England you know. its not my native language,so its quite hard for me to express my thoughts. I try the best i can.
about geometers i saw it at least 3 times in pubs. its worth mentioning it.
FiNDoL
12-04-2009, 06:09 PM
Good guide, but I dont like your stats build, You should get Split fire 12-15 not any earlier. Also, a Sheildbreaker isn't very useful on her, but Nullfire blade and a charged hammer are better. People underestimate the power of purge. And with split fire, the chances of charged hammer going off is x4.
Blockk
12-04-2009, 06:25 PM
I know I'm going to catch alot of flak with this, but I tried out Shroud on her for initiating, and it worked out rather nicely.
You should get Split fire 12-15 not any earlier
Depends on when you get shieldbreaker.
Also, a Sheildbreaker isn't very useful on her
wrong.
but Nullfire blade and a charged hammer are better.
Nullfire is situational. Partly wrong
And with split fire, the chances of charged hammer going off is x4.
Wrong.
I will update guide to 1.60 soon
Atoombom
12-05-2009, 08:47 AM
Why would you get shieldbreaker and harkon's blade at the same time? You're throwing away a lot of damage.
Why would you get shieldbreaker and harkon's blade at the same time? You're throwing away a lot of damage.
how do you think,who will do more damage
team 1: amplified damage for forsaken+other physical damage dealers
team 2: amplified damage for forsaken+phys dps dealer+magic damage dealers (whole team damage is boosted)
i think its obvious. you are sacrificing your own damage for team damage boost.
Artryafe
12-06-2009, 12:28 AM
Can't see "dream build" items anymore.
Can't see "dream build" items anymore.
i guess site with pics was down. i can see them now. i used pics not from official website but from russian forum
Tryptophan
12-06-2009, 10:25 AM
Nice job stealing pics from my guide :)
Nice job stealing pics from my guide :)
i used your Defiler guide as a template when i was writing mine. I hope you are not angry but proud :)
i can remake them if u want but as for me i dont see ally pics as a smth unique on this forums
its up to you though
Blockk
12-06-2009, 10:43 AM
I hope you are not angry but proud :)
I wonder if that's what other people say when they get caught plagiarizing other peoples stuff.
I wonder if that's what other people say when they get caught plagiarizing other peoples stuff.
i've stolen only 4 pics in "ally" section that is just a combination of hero+skill pics
i dont see it as a criminal stuff since its not a unique or innovative thing.
Faelirae
12-06-2009, 02:14 PM
With the buff to skellies I've been building 1 3 3 1 3 1 3 1 4 (or something of that sort depending sometimes 1 3 1 3 3 1 3 1 4). The ult is... well still mostly worthless, but the skellies aren't anymore as they don't push lanes for you unless you want them too, and they.. well they rape you in 3 seconds, and now the dps boost from having skellies out from just last hitting (which you're doing anyway?) is ridiculous with poisoned and how fast they are + manaburn. And such great harass, at level 5-6 you hit that volley and they can basically kill someone semi-squishy. Otherwise I like the guide, though I get thunderclaw -> elder parasite a lot depending on how much of a carry I need to be. Shieldbreaker is a must, but you don't generally need it until 13-15 so something to waste gold on is fun.
Destoryer
12-07-2009, 07:29 AM
Skeletal Minions will not attack targets unless the forsaken archer is attacking them.
They will hold ground when she holds ground, will attack when she attacks, and will follow when she moves
Note that they will not attack a target outside her attack range and will finish their current attack before retreating
When channeling Piercing Arrows, Skeletal Minions will automatically attack targets in a 600 radius around Forsaken Archer
get skeles at 1 and volley at 2
youre not going to use volley at level 1- too much mana not enough dmg, but you will last hit /deny at level 1
Nasbin1
12-07-2009, 06:01 PM
it gives you the confidence to go for a rune
ps i really like geometers on her after nullfire- each illusion gets its own call of the damned stack, so you can theoretically have 24 skeles owning it up on a push
Tryptophan
12-07-2009, 10:18 PM
i used your Defiler guide as a template when i was writing mine. I hope you are not angry but proud :)
i can remake them if u want but as for me i dont see ally pics as a smth unique on this forums
its up to you though
Hah it's not a problem. I'm not angry. I just looked at the bottom section of your guide and saw something that seemed pretty familiar.
Jigglyballs
12-13-2009, 01:19 PM
does split fire work with riftshards? just wondering
hewetty
12-13-2009, 02:21 PM
does split fire work with riftshards? just wondering
please read the guide
Jigglyballs
12-13-2009, 02:23 PM
please read the guide
o sorry didnt see riftshards lol
hzzzln
12-13-2009, 04:52 PM
thanks, got me 13-3-12 in my first archer game :D
i skipped soulscream and power supply though, and got me two bracer instead. you said your are a BIT squishy. wrong - you are a paper girl on top of a foam tiger. and i got symbol of rage after shieldbraker/bracer/boots... i was solo mid so my level advantage gave me enough damage vs mostly squishys.
nice hero, nice guide, thanks a lot :D
Animal`
12-13-2009, 10:05 PM
Maybe a no to frostwulf's, but you can't say no to fenrir's fang...
mega910
12-14-2009, 12:08 AM
I've played a few games where I got Fenrir's early and it really helps archer to fulfill her role mid game before she starts to peter out due to lack of scaling. The stat and HP boost is wonderful. Definitely an item to consider as it ups her use in ganks quite a bit too.
Jigglyballs
12-14-2009, 12:26 AM
question
what do u mean wingbow doesnt benefit from splitfire? care to elaborate on this?
Srsly she's a joke with this build.
Reasoning: 700 hp.
Your only source of hitpoints is a Soulscream ring which gives a whopping 57 and a Mana Battery which gives another 57. You take no stats up to lvl 15.
You're not a prime DPS'er, you have no steroid. Your Shieldbreaker is more of an aura than a damage item and to use it correctly you will have to stand there in the middle of a fight with 700 hitpoints eating stuns and nukes from everyone (hint: you will get raped in 3 seconds).
Imo very bad build, if you ever want to go the DPS route with FA (which I wouldn't, there are far better DPS'ers around), at least get Steamboots and a Shrunken Head.
Srsly she's a joke with this build.
Reasoning: 700 hp.
Your only source of hitpoints is a Soulscream ring which gives a whopping 57 and a Mana Battery which gives another 57. You take no stats up to lvl 15.
You're not a prime DPS'er, you have no steroid. Your Shieldbreaker is more of an aura than a damage item and to use it correctly you will have to stand there in the middle of a fight with 700 hitpoints eating stuns and nukes from everyone (hint: you will get raped in 3 seconds).
Imo very bad build, if you ever want to go the DPS route with FA (which I wouldn't, there are far better DPS'ers around), at least get Steamboots and a Shrunken Head.
and if you go fang you die in 5 seconds. where is the difference? You get more hp but you do close to 0 damage. slow? you will stand in the middle of the fight eating stuns and nukes,you would have 0 time to shoot,gg.
steamboots: 100hp wont save you when you are escaping with 365ms.
fang is good for heroes that can rely on skills alone,lets say Defiler. Forsaken cant. she needs raw power too.
as i said in the guide,i'd rather get Shrunken for survivability than fang.
add: also. if you are eating all stuns then your carry hero doesnt.
question
what do u mean wingbow doesnt benefit from splitfire? care to elaborate on this?
i can say shortly. wingbow sucks.
if i'd want evasion i could buy just talisman alone. and for DPS savage mace is far more superiour than wingbow.
before the change of build-up wingbow was made for evasion that was uncounterable. now i can spend 1600 rather than 6000 to get evasion,and build savage mace against wing users.
and if you go fang you die in 5 seconds. where is the difference? You get more hp but you do close to 0 damage. slow? you will stand in the middle of the fight eating stuns and nukes,you would have 0 time to shoot,gg.
steamboots: 100hp wont save you when you are escaping with 365ms.
fang is good for heroes that can rely on skills alone,lets say Defiler. Forsaken cant. she needs raw power too.
as i said in the guide,i'd rather get Shrunken for survivability than fang.
add: also. if you are eating all stuns then your carry hero doesnt.
I'm not arguing Fang vs Shieldbreaker, it's too early to tell which one is better. I'm arguing building Shieldbreaker with no survivability at all. There are many combinations you can go with DPS FA, Steamboots/SB/Shrunken, Nullfire/GM/Bracers/eventually Shrunken, but your build is a super glass cannon for a hero who cannot stay on the edge of a teamfight when going the DPS route. MS doesn't help you in teamfights, you don't build items to run from a teamfight faster (unless you of course enjoy the scout clash simulator), you build those that can help you last longer.
FA doesn't make a good glass cannon, her skillset is not geared towards that. She's no Chronos with a godly mass disable/1v1 bashlock or DotA Sniper with inhuman attack range.
Imo there are 3 viable builds for FA at this moment. One revolves about getting Nullfire for chase/debuffs/mass mana burn, you would go it when facing a Hellbringer or Jeraziah and that's what I usually played pre 1.61. The other revolves around physical DPS and NEEDS a Shrunken Head and a Shieldbreaker in core (it has more expensive core than most other competetive DPS heroes, that's why I think it's not a perfect choice, but situationally can do well). The third is an earlygame caster/mid-late slower/semi-tank with Fenrir/Frostwolf/Barbed Armor, it still needs testing. Any other build doesn't capitalize on multi-shot and wastes at least one of her skills.
add: also. if you are eating all stuns then your carry hero doesnt.
Considering how much farm you stole from him I would actually say you shouldn't be dying either.
mega910
12-14-2009, 03:36 AM
This is directed toward Rean
Fenrirs can be a good item for Forsaken Archer and should be listed for consideration. FA is going to be most effective late early/mid game. If someone uses her to aid in ganks and small team fights the slow/hp and mp boosts are great. I have noticed an increase in survivability and have found a lot of fun things to do with the slow effect.
Against smart enemies it can be hard to land a volley, even a level four. If your teammates are counting on your volley for a successful gank/fight and you miss the target could get away or could just rush you and deal some damage. That -15% cancels out the effect of marchers and if they don't have it they'll be sitting at ~250 ms. This makes hitting a volley much easier. I've found I've been able to catch people just on the outside of the radius and get a kill or let a carry tag him (if one is around). I can also throw out two extra Volleys with the mp boost. I use power supply for mana needs but sometimes I just don't have the charges, being able to throw out another Volley is great (especially if I happen top miss the first one)
Her juking and fleeing gets a slight boost. Chances are I'm dead regardless but if I can tag an enemy with slow and activate ghost marchers I just might be able to get away. In conjunction with the HP boost I've been able to escape a few ganks (not a lot, but some). A big desperation tactic I've had to use in the past is tank a hit or two in order to Volley where I'm standing (or near) in the hopes of escaping. That extra hp is about 3-4 hits. I can try to run if the Volley lands or immediately pop a homecoming stone.
Skeletons are already fast but if the enemy is moving 15% slower the skeletons could get in 1 extra attack each. Those extra hits could drain enough mana to neutralize the target as a threat so I could go in for the kill. Possibly kill them if they were really low. Or that last application of poison is enough get the target.
I don't use her ult that much but the slow helps (albeit just a little)
I'm not saying Fenrirs is God. Not that at all. All I'm saying is that I've found it to be useful for how I tend to play FA. If I solo mid getting the 3400 will not be hard. If I know I'm going for FF I skill Split shot a little early (just one point though) so I can flash it if there is a team fight. Shieldbreaker allows FA to maintain a presence late game but if I see the enemy team has strong late game heroes I rush FF and organize with the mates to prevent there even being a late game. I've still got a lot more playing to do with FF but I like what I've seen so far.
It's your guide though. Just wanted to put in my two cents.
there is always a room for choice.
i will add fang and items as possible full-support build.
it will be just retarded if i wouldnt after such constructive critics.
modifying now.
add: done,server with pics is down as i see
Darkshine1
12-15-2009, 02:58 AM
Nullfire/GM/Bracers/eventually Shrunken
GM? Eh?
Darkshine1
12-15-2009, 12:47 PM
ghost marchers
Oh, well, now I feel dumb. >_>
Personally, I'm thinking my core at the moment is:
Power Supply
Fortified Bracelet
Ghost Marchers
Nullfire Blade
Fenrir's Fang
And then replacing the Bracelet with a Shrunken Head after I've built those five items.
FA is a versatile hero. her core is a combination of 4 items on your choice D:
Maviand
12-15-2009, 06:50 PM
I've found the shieldbreaker is the core item for her in the game. Once you debuff them once (by hitting them), your 8 (if you've killed 8 creeps in a 40 second span period) will hit the enemy really hard.
While she may not be the best carry in the game, her farmability is INMENSE due to the nature of the skeletons. This hero basically encourages you to last hit and deny which is a very big +.
As to the skill build, I always go skellies 1st (if everything's normal and we aren't trying to lvl 1 bloodlust) volley-skeli-volley-skelo-ulti-skeli-volley volley. As to the splitfire, if you are not trying to go for team support (which I recommend you shouldn't through going with frostwolf) ignore it. You want to kill your main target as quickly as possible and go to the next. I take stats
Dutchviper
12-19-2009, 08:30 PM
Archer is my favourite heroe because it can be amazingly powerfull at early game, screwing enemy heroes so they'l suck late game and i cant believe you dont got tempest on you'r allies list me and my friend often do archer+tempest then he'll go in jungle and i go solo lane next to the jungle and when im facing strong opponents i call him for a gank and when i have 2 melee as opponent its pretty much good game already, as my skeletons harras them to death.... literaly
Archer is my favourite heroe because it can be amazingly powerfull at early game, screwing enemy heroes so they'l suck late game and i cant believe you dont got tempest on you'r allies list me and my friend often do archer+tempest then he'll go in jungle and i go solo lane next to the jungle and when im facing strong opponents i call him for a gank and when i have 2 melee as opponent its pretty much good game already, as my skeletons harras them to death.... literaly
if you would actually read the guide you would know that i mentioned tempest and chrono,just forgot to add them in allies section
Dutchviper
12-20-2009, 05:55 AM
if you would actually read the guide you would know that i mentioned tempest and chrono,just forgot to add them in allies section
Meh i havent read the guild but i strongly disagree whith you're stat and item setup
EM games % = 91%
sorry but you are restricted to talk about it
SHJordan
12-20-2009, 06:48 PM
And... what about Plated Boots?
Isn't is better then Ghost Marchers???
for a semi-carry? no
do u see plated on valk? i dont
Destoryer
12-22-2009, 04:01 AM
playing fa as mid solo- getting shaman's headress with gm for first item,
and frostburn + sb goes really strong (usually set my modifier with sb and change to frostburn when needed)
`Cyrus`
12-22-2009, 05:45 AM
Nice guide but you should add Tempest to good allies list. Tempests ulti + Forsaken Archers ulti = win.
Edit: Ah, my bad you already mentioned tempest there.
alliednoob
12-22-2009, 08:05 PM
Chronos is a good ally also, if he initiates with his ult then u get like 3 free kills at least.
aznoobie
12-23-2009, 01:01 AM
How do u hotkey modifiers?
TheHanzou
12-24-2009, 02:27 AM
Why would you get volley over Skeletons lvl 1? Especially when you solo mid. Getting Skeletons first is usually a lot better.
Geometers bane is useless on FA. Ghost Marchers are bad, always get steamboots. Actually dont get any boots, just take marchers and go straight for h&s. good Build Up and 1000 earlier, moves faster than Ghost marchers. Power Supply is not a good item on FA. Soulscream is not needed, with Skeletons farming speed u can go for 2xMajor Totem directly rushing h&s.
What about Elder Parasite? I never play FA without it, hes not meant to be hit anyway. Passive lifeleech+chasing speed is good as well, i prefer parasite to whispering helm. Creep stacking should be done with winged courier.
Exactable
12-24-2009, 03:02 AM
Why would you get volley over Skeletons lvl 1? Especially when you solo mid. Getting Skeletons first is usually a lot better.
Geometers bane is useless on FA. Ghost Marchers are bad, always get steamboots. Actually dont get any boots, just take marchers and go straight for h&s. good Build Up and 1000 earlier, moves faster than Ghost marchers. Power Supply is not a good item on FA. Soulscream is not needed, with Skeletons farming speed u can go for 2xMajor Totem directly rushing h&s.
What about Elder Parasite? I never play FA without it, hes not meant to be hit anyway. Passive lifeleech+chasing speed is good as well, i prefer parasite to whispering helm. Creep stacking should be done with winged courier.
bad troll
alliednoob
12-24-2009, 03:59 PM
[S]hes not meant to be hit anyway.
Not meant to be hit is different then getting hit...
NecroDemon
12-24-2009, 08:27 PM
I always go for hammer, it even procs with split arrows, but I use that only after frostwolf(as 2nd item). Should propably try sange yasha(lol) but I seem to lose when I try another build. Which is quite rare. But im gonna try it anyway. Getting skeletons(specially after 1.62) more than lvl1 is a waste imo. In any decent game enemies will hit em first, not to mention their poison is gone. lvl1 and then stats is my choice.
I always go for hammer, it even procs with split arrows, but I use that only after frostwolf(as 2nd item). Should propably try sange yasha(lol) but I seem to lose when I try another build. Which is quite rare. But im gonna try it anyway. Getting skeletons(specially after 1.62) more than lvl1 is a waste imo. In any decent game enemies will hit em first, not to mention their poison is gone. lvl1 and then stats is my choice.
....what?
NecroDemon
12-24-2009, 09:39 PM
....what?
nothing, confused some bits. just saying i like hack and slash but other than that i kinda disagree with your points. good article though
I always go for hammer, it even procs with split arrows
only main arrow
Getting skeletons(specially after 1.62) more than lvl1 is a waste imo. In any decent game enemies will hit em first, not to mention their poison is gone
no,its not gone
Corpselooter
12-25-2009, 05:39 AM
Why isn't tempest in good allies?
The two ults together are just rape
Corpselooter
12-25-2009, 05:49 AM
I always go for hammer, it even procs with split arrows, but I use that only after frostwolf(as 2nd item). Should propably try sange yasha(lol) but I seem to lose when I try another build. Which is quite rare. But im gonna try it anyway. Getting skeletons(specially after 1.62) more than lvl1 is a waste imo. In any decent game enemies will hit em first, not to mention their poison is gone. lvl1 and then stats is my choice.
Charged hammer only procs of the main arrow
It's retardedly useless
NecroDemon
12-25-2009, 06:54 AM
always thought it was good cause it does proc instead of dota, and i didnt use split arrow till frostwolf skull
Why isn't tempest in good allies?
The two ults together are just rape
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroes
thats why
find small icons and i will add it right away
alliednoob
12-25-2009, 02:08 PM
1 word, 4 pictures:
:fors::chro:CHRONOS:chro::fors:
i dont want to use such small icons srsly
Anyway,updated guide with new skill/item build i recently discovered.
ilikecheese
12-25-2009, 04:29 PM
If I'm solo mid and a against a fairly non-aggressive laner, I can usually rush Boots of Travel and just teleport around rice-farming items (depending on the situation) and do a pushing build / support DPS, seems to work fairly well so far.
akitoes
12-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Absolutely no mention of Geometer's bane ? :/
x3ViLG3NiUS
12-28-2009, 06:04 PM
out of curiosity, what do you think of HnS on her with the recent buffs to it? seems like it would give her survivability/slow/AS/a bit of damage/MS that she so desperately needs.
NecroDemon
12-28-2009, 06:48 PM
out of curiosity, what do you think of HnS on her with the recent buffs to it? seems like it would give her survivability/slow/AS/a bit of damage/MS that she so desperately needs.
I think its actually pretty good, with ur choice of boots it can help her. But you will avoid buying frostwolf later on.
Last couple of games ive gone :NullfireBlade: then frostwolf and it works pretty well too, combined with stats.
out of curiosity, what do you think of HnS on her with the recent buffs to it? seems like it would give her survivability/slow/AS/a bit of damage/MS that she so desperately needs.
shieldbreaker owns even new frostburn. -armor boosts skells damage even more making them raping portable mini-army.
for survivability get shrunken
x3ViLG3NiUS
12-29-2009, 11:48 AM
oh i'm not counting it as a dps item slot. but for a quicker and easier farm HnS gives out similar effects as frostwolf, with an increase to MS and AS. I can see synergy between HnS and SB
IceQB1
12-29-2009, 02:17 PM
best ally for archer is tempest, couz nobody survives after 2 nicely done ulties
Mizuto
12-30-2009, 05:47 AM
Okay, so why does this overpowered hero need a guide again? Press Q click on target. Press R click on target. Win. I just described your guide in less than two sentences.
NecroDemon
12-30-2009, 08:17 AM
Okay, so why does this overpowered hero need a guide again? Press Q click on target. Press R click on target. Win. I just described your guide in less than two sentences.
if you think fa is overpowered your either not good with her or play too much pubs with bad teams. any1 whos mastered her can see her weaknesses, she may be stronger than other heroes but definately not op.
updated ally part just as i promised
Drakie
01-06-2010, 01:03 PM
Wingbow does not benefit from split fire. Leave this item for true carries.
What do you mean that it doesnt benefit split fire? isnt the extra dmg nice?
She has major surivial issues, isnt 30% evasion the **** for her?
HONYoda
01-06-2010, 01:16 PM
She's so OP and EZ to play. I LOVE PLAYING HER! :)
What do you mean that it doesnt benefit split fire? isnt the extra dmg nice?
She has major surivial issues, isnt 30% evasion the **** for her?
extra damage from savage mace is +400. can wingbow do same amount of damage?
as i said 9000 times alrdy,get shrunken for survivability.
if you REALLY want evasion (if u are against 5 melee carries) buy talisman ALONE. it provides 25%.
LetsCuddle
01-07-2010, 12:51 PM
For Split Fire, does proc-based items such as thunder claw gain additional chance to proc per every arrow? Or does it still treat it as one shot?
i heard reading the guide helps
`Konvict
01-07-2010, 09:36 PM
Good guide, op hero.
I would like to make a suggestion. I use this guide almost like a bible :P I learned to play FA from this guide. After playing her for sometime now I recently stumbled on using a portal key with her. IT IS AMAZING I think it should be added to her core items.
there are 2 items that work good with ANY hero-Portal key and bottle. but on some heroes having blink/bottle is a must,on some its not. FA is the second case. there are better ways to spend 2k gold. you do not rely on blink to be effective with her. when you buy it its not a wasted gold,yes. but its not the most effective thing you can buy.
the reason i think it's so good is because yes we know she has really good range. That is a fact but what about her survivability she has nothing to help keep her alive no escape mechanism. I was just in a game where a magmas and Maiken where chasing me I was about to teleport over a cliff into from the left side of hellbrone into the base how I blinked so far I am still not even sure. anyway i dodged magmus's stun and was just out of range of the slow that would have killed me. They're would have been no other way to have lived that. From what I have experienced in the past few games of playing her with it. unexpected blinks while chasing someone and volley net's kills more so than early damage that i would have spent buying 1 hammer.
then why dont you see all heroes without escape mech getting blink?
hint: its not the best tactic
lol. I kept trying to find where my post went but you responded so fast I thought it was the old post. I understand what your saying she does not have any thing to effectively chase someone if they just run.
lol. I kept trying to find where my post went but you responded so fast I thought it was the old post. I understand what your saying she does not have any thing to effectively chase someone if they just run.
you have other people in team to do that. thats the thing
+her movespeed is above average (305/395 with phase)
more than enough to chase
there are 2 items that work good with ANY hero-Portal key and bottle. but on some heroes having blink/bottle is a must,on some its not. FA is the second case. there are better ways to spend 2k gold. you do not rely on blink to be effective with her. when you buy it its not a wasted gold,yes. but its not the most effective thing you can buy.
the reason i think it's so good is because yes we know she has really good range. That is a fact but what about her survivability she has nothing to help keep her alive no escape mechanism. I was just in a game where a magmas and Maiken where chasing me I was about to teleport over a cliff into from the left side of hellbrone into the base how I blinked so far I am still not even sure. anyway i dodged magmus's stun and was just out of range of the slow that would have killed me. They're would have been no other way to have lived that. From what I have experienced in the past few games of playing her with it. unexpected blinks while chasing someone and volley net's kills more so than early damage that i would have spent buying 1 hammer.
then why dont you see all heroes without escape mech getting blink?
hint: its not the best tactic
Newti
01-10-2010, 04:27 PM
Guide to forsaken archer in a team fight: Hit Q then hit R. Hat-trick! You win the team fight.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
HappyShopper
01-10-2010, 09:30 PM
...really don't see how this guide doesn't go with Charged Hammer. More chance to last hit, which equals more skeleton's to roflolmaobbq the whole team with, when you q then r and hit disconnect. Gz to 5 k/d.
HappyShopper
01-10-2010, 09:33 PM
(double)
eAnGeL
01-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Guide to forsaken archer in a team fight: Hit Q then hit R. Hat-trick! You win the team fight.
BR0K3N
01-11-2010, 03:26 AM
Guide to forsaken archer in a team fight: Hit Q then hit R. Hat-trick! You win the team fight.
QFT. This is truth at it's finest.
They need to nerf the skeletons. Make them attackable by mobs/towers and reduce their time (think Phantom Lancer from DotA)
Oh and they need to nerf her root, with it's ministun cancelling massive channel ultis like Tempest's.
Thanks for your replies Misclick, they made me rofltard into 2020.
P.S I am not a troll.
You know what I have to say is true, she requires a nerf, but you FOTMers will only whine.
no important changes to FA this patch
AhilE
01-12-2010, 05:28 PM
sure there are, they kinda ****ed her up compared to what it was before ...
no more 25-0 in pub games :((
overreactions are overreactions (c) Idejder
AhilE
01-12-2010, 05:57 PM
what does :
Attack projectile speed slowed down from 1200 to 1050
mean ?
attack speed or wtf ?
no. autoattack arrow flies slower
Cloud
01-14-2010, 01:33 AM
damnit they are going to nerf this chick again?
every patch she gets nerfed and yet I keep getting quad kills =P
i gotta stop playing this toon
she would stay top tier anyway. very versatile hero. can push,gank,carry,support
Major update on all builds+modified note about frostburn
alliednoob
01-16-2010, 10:34 PM
nice guide >.>
I think u put my suggestion in there?
alliednoob
01-21-2010, 08:59 PM
also jw but FA's ult is situational (yeah it is) maybe only get it if you have a huge stun on ur team (like chronos), would this actually work or is the ult actually usable during the ground?
AND (ik ik, this is probably making u mad) but if archer solo mids:
1) skeletons
2) ground
3) ground
skeletons help a lot pushing the wave (for runes)
armandAve
01-21-2010, 10:49 PM
nice guide, i never used archer but i always wanted too
varon
01-27-2010, 01:16 PM
I take call of the damned at every opportunity until it's maxed.
OnlyPebbles
01-27-2010, 02:48 PM
you know the hero is overpowered when listed in worst enemies is one hero that is sub par at best and never gets picked. Does this hero really need a ****ing guide? It's the dumbest hero in HoN.
alliednoob
01-27-2010, 05:19 PM
you know the hero is overpowered when listed in worst enemies is one hero that is sub par at best and never gets picked. Does this hero really need a ****ing guide? It's the dumbest hero in HoN.
have you seen the scout guides? complain to them, because no one uses scout in competitive games (they do use FA tho)
like this: http://www.gamereplays.org/heroesofnewerth/replays.php?game=58&show=details&id=108353
I believe the team with FA won
updated with Frostburn vs Frostwolf analysis
Norroar
01-28-2010, 05:19 PM
PRETTY COOL PICS, ON THE NEW UPDATE, imo.
alliednoob
01-28-2010, 06:00 PM
more of me posting:
steam boots = carry route - dps
ghost marchers = ganker route - hey look, I'm faster than u xD
post haste = late game "tiered-out" item - homecoming stone does it's job until late game (when you run out of towers)
this is still one of my favorite guides I read it regularly just to see if anything has changed. Like I was so going to ask you about frostburn on her. this is really good.
Mikelsa
02-05-2010, 12:25 PM
i usually use this build :
soulscream
power supply
steamboots
frostburn
charged hammer
? sometimes happen that i have other gold to spend what to take? i tried geo bane and wingbow for now
what about frostfield plate useless on archer?
alliednoob
02-05-2010, 06:01 PM
i usually use this build :
soulscream
power supply
steamboots
frostburn
charged hammer
? sometimes happen that i have other gold to spend what to take? i tried geo bane and wingbow for now
what about frostfield plate useless on archer?
wingbow/savage mace
savage mace will work well cus of ur ridiculous arrow/minute
wingbow is always good ;P
Mikelsa
02-06-2010, 01:06 PM
oki thx :D
alliednoob
02-06-2010, 02:56 PM
also u can see skelies with shroud on...
feel free to suggest ideas what can be added to the guide
Nani`
02-07-2010, 11:32 AM
Some screenshots or a video demonstrating the right use/uses of Piercing Arrows would be awesome. Would be rly good for players, who want to learn her and may also provide some usefull info for advanced players.
alliednoob
02-07-2010, 11:45 AM
I think:
ghost marchers = ganker route (lol look at me, I run fast)
steam boots = main carry route (pew pew pew)
post haste = possible late game boot change (or early game ricing boots)
i didnt see anyone using Post Haste but i think its viable
alliednoob
02-12-2010, 04:19 PM
i didnt see anyone using Post Haste but i think its viable
I actually had an hour long game and actually had so much money I had to sell my steam boots, buy post haste just because I died and bought back (fountained 3 ppl tho :D)
I mean after she gets her core items you can swap power supplies with astrolabe for the heal and all that...
for luxury items, can you put Behemoth Heart/HotBL?
they work well after archer has her core carry route items, and then just need some more survivability (it's actually ridiculously easy to farm with archer after charged hammer so it's pretty achievable)
i wonder if it will ever get premium status :[
alliednoob
02-24-2010, 05:32 PM
i wonder if it will ever get premium status :[
pictures [x]
good guide [x]
in depth [ ]
=o?
Oxzyhzaurus
02-25-2010, 12:30 PM
:fors:
Rean's Guide to the Forsaken Archer
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NmTEALncLtM/SxBIRezBSCI/AAAAAAAAAC4/Pf4zXPFvrjs/s1600/Forsaken_Archer.jpg
Skillset and background
http://i047.radikal.ru/0911/b9/eb747d2228b6.jpg
Pros and Cons
Pros/Strengths:
A very good disable/nuke
Decent attribute gain
Good attack animation
Great pushing/DPS abilities (Split Fire, Call of the Damned)
Can apply modifiers from items such as Shieldbreaker on multiply targets at once
Cons/Weaknesses:
No escape/chase ability
A very situational ultimate
A bit squishy (just like any other Agility hero)
Forsaken archer is a very versatile hero. She can be a pusher, ganker or carry depending on what items you get on her.
Base Stats
Strength: 17 + 1.7 per level
Agility: 23 + 2.7 per level (Main attribute)
Intelligence: 17 + 1.8 per level
Damage: 41 - 52
Armor: 2.22
Movement Speed: 305
Attack Range: 600
Attack Rate: 0.59
Health: 492
Mana: 221
Skills
Crippling Volley
http://i48.tinypic.com/2cdvbkk.png
This is your trademark skill. A pretty neat disable with a good duration time. Not that easy to hit with, but if it does hit your enemy will be in a big trouble.
Possible to do an animation-cancel.
Split Fire
http://i032.radikal.ru/0912/c2/ca11a94d27a0.jpg
You don't know which hero to focus? This skill solves this problem. Your arrows will hit everyone in team fights.
Call of the Damned
http://i45.tinypic.com/29414xh.png
http://s41.radikal.ru/i093/0912/48/ed16adf6a87f.jpg
Piercing Arrows
http://i005.radikal.ru/0912/98/14215863d3a5.jpg
Very situational skill. But if used correct, will do a very decent damage to enemy team.
Skill Order:
1. Crippling Volley
2. Call of the Damned
3. Crippling Volley
4. Call of the Damned
5. Crippling Volley
6. Piercing arrows
7. Crippling Volley
8. Call of the Damned
9. Call of the Damned
10. Stats
11. Piercing arrows
12-15. Stats
16. Piercing arrows
17-20 Split Fire
21-25. Stats
Explanation:
Crippling Volley is leveled ASAP because it is your only nuke and disable.
Split Fire is useless early because of big damage reduction when your damage is weak as well. Skip until late game.
Call of the damned is your bread and butter skill. Helps staying in lane, has
synergy with your volley also helps harassing and pushing if needed.
Piercing arrows is leveled on chance for damage improvement.
The biggest problem with Forsaken Archer's skills is that she doesn't scale as well as much as we would like, making her only a semi-carry. She can carry just she wont do that job as good as for example Sand Wraith or any other hard carry.
Skill usage
Crippling Volley
This skill has a one second cast animation. If you get stunned in this one second, skill cancels. You should always try to aim behind your victims because most likely they will run back as soon as you initiate, no matter if you are ganking or its laning phase. If they go forward, then fight them, that's what you wanted when you initiated. If they run back, then they are rooted.
http://s15.radikal.ru/i188/0911/96/61c08b1632b7.jpg
http://s48.radikal.ru/i121/0911/e9/4e12ae9cfea3.jpg
Split Fire
Use it in team battles to apply your attack modifier (such as Shieldbreaker -armor debuff) on multiply targets or when you are pushing a lane. When you are attacking lonely target turn it off to remove 45% damage reduction.
Call of the Damned
Last hit to summon them from dead bodies. They copy your actions. You attack-they attack. You hold position-they do too. Useful harassment tool early, great pushers. They are dealing painful damage as well to heroes as well.When you channel your ultimate they automatically attack targets in 600 range in front of hero so they wont stay idle while you pull off your ultimate.
Piercing Arrows
Piercing arrows is a very situational ultimate. It has a pretty small radius (175) and a decent range (1300). It can be deadly if you get a lot of enemies in straight line, but if they are spread or moving, ultimate is losing its efficiency because it's a channeling ability so to reach its full potential you need to have an enemy constantly stunned. Your root only holds for 2.5 seconds, while ultimate lasts for 4.
In team battles cast volley and pull off ultimate immediately without waiting for arrows to land. With doing this trick you are winning another 0.5sec of disable getting guaranteed three seconds of painful damage (+1 wave). This ultimate works well with AoE disables, like Chronosphere, Elemental Void etc.
On level 6-10 it can be used to clear big creep waves because of rather small cooldown (120 seconds) and small damage. Also team battles doesn't happen often so early.
Items
Starting Items:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/healthpoti.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/manapotion.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/runesofthe.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/minortotem.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/pretenders.png
2x Runes of the Blight - 180
1x Minor Totems - 53
2x Pretenders Crown - 370
Total Cost: 603 Gold
Pretty standard, nothing more to say there.
Core Items:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/homecoming.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/soulscream.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/itempowers.png +http://i48.tinypic.com/2n0prf8.png
1x Homecoming Stones - 135
1x Soulscream Ring - 460
1x Power Supply - 519
1x Boots of your choice - ***
+http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/shamanshea.png
against heavy magic damage lineups - 2150
Total Cost: 2564+ (3014+) Gold
This is the core build for Forsaken Archer.
Soulscream ring is the easiest way to pump your stats
Power supply will save your life pretty often when you are escaping. Charges give you enough mana for that last life-saving Crippling Volley. Highly Recommended.
Buy boots that fit your play style. Steamboots is the choice of a carry, Ghost Marchers fit gankers and Post Haste are for pushers.
Remember always to carry Homecoming Stones. 135 gold can save your life.
Items Afterwards::
Ganker route:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/nullfirebl.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/puzzlebox.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/shieldbrea.png
Nullfire blade as a counter to several heroes such as
Hellbringer, Jeraziah, Hammerstorm + helps chasing and escaping. Also synergies with Puzzlebox.
Puzzlebox shines on FA. While you channel your ultimate this little monsters rape enemy team. Send them on their Intelligence heroes and watch them dying. Burn mana from heroes with small mana pool and watch them being unable to cast spells. Good counter for AoE oriented heroes/teams.
Shieldbreaker boosts your own dps, your team dps and your summons dps.
Carry route:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/frostburn.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/geometersb.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/savagemace.png + http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/wingbow.png or http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/chargedham.png
Frostburn gives you slow, damage, movespeed and hp. Everything you need.
Geometers give you possibilities to confuse enemies, increase your DPS and movespeed. Also you can dispel debuffs with it.
Savage mace afterwards for even bigger damage output. Procs on all arrows so if you are lucky you can get +400 damage on single shot with split fire.
Wingbow provides DPS and survivability.
Lightnings pew pew pew!
Rejected items:
http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/riftshards.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/brutalizer.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/assasinssh.png http://images.heroesofnewerth.ru/images/frostwolfs.png
Riftshards work only on main target
While Brutalizer does work with split fire, it has a two sec cooldown, which means
if it procs on one arrow, it wont work on others 3.
Never ever buy shroud. You have 800 range skill and 1300 range ultimate, you don't need stealth.
Frostburn vs Frostwolf
Now i will explain why we take Frostburn over Frostwolf.
http://i50.tinypic.com/hupq0w.jpg
At first look it looks like Frostwolf is superior in all ways except movement speed and attack speed.
Frostburn, compared to Frostwolf have:
-4 damage
-0.56 armor
-276 health
And slows seems a lot weaker,15% against 30%. But it's not like that.
Let's take scout and FA fighting each other and compare scout movespeed against FA with Frostwolf and FA with Frostburn.
http://i47.tinypic.com/an1rpf.jpg
As we can see, movespeed difference is almost unnoticeable because Frostburn increases your own speed which compensates that 15% slow difference between Frostwolf and Frostburn. If you get Frostwolf, for 1100 gold you get 4 damage, 0.56 armor and 276 health but lose 14% movespeed and 26 attack speed.
Is it worth it? Of course not. Frostburn on FA is much better than Frostwolf.
General Gameplay
As a hero with a disable, you would want to lane with another disabler. Solo mid is possible, but you would need to play safe, because most likely you would never hit a skilled opponent with your root. It has a damn small cast range at first levels.
Just stay back, last hit and deny. Check runes and gank if there is a good one - like Double Damage or Haste.
On side lanes, wait for your partner to slow/stun, pull off Volley immediately and safely kill a target. It's a guaranteed kill in most cases. Just beware of stun heroes, because your Volley doesn't silence, so they can still cast stuns on you.
Your early game task is simple. Play safe (its hard to play offensive with current Volley cast range -.-) last hit and deny. Get gold for your core items
Mid-late game your task is to gank with team, help them with root and pull off your ultimate on chance. In team fights you would want to attack enemies because of your - armor debuff if you have Shieldbreaker, but if you see a chance to pull off your ultimate so it hits at least two heroes, then do it. Damage on your ultimate is pretty high if it hits with all waves.
Do not forget to stack Ancients camps, you can clear them in matter of seconds and get a huge boost to your gold amount.
Best Allies
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257082430_heroe.gif
-Keeper of the Forest (Root)
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257056783_heroe.gif
-Tempest (Elemental Void)
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257082376_heroe.gif
-Behemoth (Stun Combo)
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257160017_heroe.gif
-Legionnaire (Taunt)
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1258127711_heroe.gif
-Chronos (Chronosphere)
Worst Enemy
http://alldota.ru/uploads/posts/2009-11/1257056855_icon_128.jpg
-Vindicator (Final Chapter)
Credits
Thanks to all IRC guys for helping me and providing feedback
Special Thanks to Norroar for providing pictures <3
alliednoob
02-25-2010, 07:51 PM
Just noticed something, ur gameplay part needs some adjustment, and it should include a jungling part.
jungling? what?
FA cant jungle
SHJordan
02-26-2010, 03:09 AM
jungling? what?
FA cant jungle
I think he means when you're being ganked or have no money... midgame/latergame... not jungling all the way...;)
yet again it fits "HON FOR DUMMIES" not "HOW TO PLAY FORSAKEN ARCHER"
i dont want to write about stuff that is not exclusive for FA
absolutely ANY hero can jungle mid game
alliednoob
02-26-2010, 04:23 PM
yet again it fits "HON FOR DUMMIES" not "HOW TO PLAY FORSAKEN ARCHER"
i dont want to write about stuff that is not exclusive for FA
absolutely ANY hero can jungle mid game
ult + jungle = lol gpm
wasting ult on jungle is a fail
XTenebrousX
02-26-2010, 05:07 PM
Where do I start...
Thunderclaw at least should be in core. Honestly, it gives great DPS and adds some nice ASPD and DMG. Why do you only get Split Fire at 17 when you said it was so great? Personally I don't get SplitFire until I get an attack modifier because quite frankly, it's useless until then. And I only get 1 for the fact that it gives everyone the debuff.
Frostwolf is great in teamfights. 'Nuff said.
Her ulti is MEANT to be used when an enemy is low on health and it going to get away because is has 2x the range of her auto attack. It's great with Tempest's ult.
STR Steamboots are much better for her as they give Health and APSD, allowing Thunderclaw to proc more often.
Furthermore, I don't believe this guide should be premium as you contradict yourself. Even above me you said that wasting ult on jungle is fail, whereas you suggest using it on creep waves? You didn't give any phases of the game at all. Why DID you write the guide?
Where do I start...
Thunderclaw at least should be in core. Honestly, it gives great DPS and adds some nice ASPD and DMG. Why do you only get Split Fire at 17 when you said it was so great? Personally I don't get SplitFire until I get an attack modifier because quite frankly, it's useless until then. And I only get 1 for the fact that it gives everyone the debuff.
Frostwolf is great in teamfights. 'Nuff said.
Her ulti is MEANT to be used when an enemy is low on health and it going to get away because is has 2x the range of her auto attack. It's great with Tempest's ult.
STR Steamboots are much better for her as they give Health and APSD, allowing Thunderclaw to proc more often.
Furthermore, I don't believe this guide should be premium as you contradict yourself. Even above me you said that wasting ult on jungle is fail, whereas you suggest using it on creep waves? You didn't give any phases of the game at all. Why DID you write the guide?
where do i start..
you fail
about ulting creeps. ulting big WAVES and 2 creep camps is TOTALLY different thing
TKDSUSDK
02-26-2010, 09:10 PM
Where do I start...
Thunderclaw at least should be in core. Honestly, it gives great DPS and adds some nice ASPD and DMG. Why do you only get Split Fire at 17 when you said it was so great? Personally I don't get SplitFire until I get an attack modifier because quite frankly, it's useless until then. And I only get 1 for the fact that it gives everyone the debuff.
Frostwolf is great in teamfights. 'Nuff said.
Her ulti is MEANT to be used when an enemy is low on health and it going to get away because is has 2x the range of her auto attack. It's great with Tempest's ult.
STR Steamboots are much better for her as they give Health and APSD, allowing Thunderclaw to proc more often.
Furthermore, I don't believe this guide should be premium as you contradict yourself. Even above me you said that wasting ult on jungle is fail, whereas you suggest using it on creep waves? You didn't give any phases of the game at all. Why DID you write the guide?
l o l
uhhhh split fire lvl 4 more than doubles your total damage output, it's obviously not for only getting debuffs on them
her ultimate is not MEANT to be used to kill runners....rofl, it can do all sorts of ****, that's just one of the uses
it hits HARD if you have an ally who can root them for the full 4 seconds, and even if you shoot your root and then ult immediately you can get at least 3 seconds, maybe 3.5 seconds because it takes a second to walk sideways out of the decent sized aoe of the arrow
as if you NEED treads to proc more arrows when you have +70 AS from charged hammer once you get it, treads are fine, its situational
obviously frostwulf is good, frostwulf is nice on any hero, you give a totally moronic explanation...yeah, wingbow/savagemace/charged hammer/symbol/deso is nice in team fights too, NUFF SAID
here you go:
http://honcast.com/2010/01/gr-invitational-round-1-stfu-vs-4dr-game-1/
shieldbreaker, symbol of rage, savage mace, wingbow, geometer's bane, steamboots...everything benefits procs or images
alliednoob
02-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Where do I start...
Thunderclaw at least should be in core. Honestly, it gives great DPS and adds some nice ASPD and DMG. Why do you only get Split Fire at 17 when you said it was so great? Personally I don't get SplitFire until I get an attack modifier because quite frankly, it's useless until then. And I only get 1 for the fact that it gives everyone the debuff.
Frostwolf is great in teamfights. 'Nuff said.
Her ulti is MEANT to be used when an enemy is low on health and it going to get away because is has 2x the range of her auto attack. It's great with Tempest's ult.
STR Steamboots are much better for her as they give Health and APSD, allowing Thunderclaw to proc more often.
Furthermore, I don't believe this guide should be premium as you contradict yourself. Even above me you said that wasting ult on jungle is fail, whereas you suggest using it on creep waves? You didn't give any phases of the game at all. Why DID you write the guide?
pro answers:
1) thunderclaw should be gotten 2nd because frostburn helps more in teamight (and u'll have more dps when u get thunderclaw 2nd, so u can use it more effectively), glass cannon is fail, see number 1 below.
2) Frostwolf is fail, ur paying extra money for int which FA does not need, thus wasting money (and ur not support)
3) yeah, and it also helps you farm, but you know how many tempest's you'll see ingame?
4) steamboots are core, but for a ganker/chaser route ghost marchers can be better...
l o l
uhhhh split fire lvl 4 more than doubles your total damage output, it's obviously not for only getting debuffs on them
her ultimate is not MEANT to be used to kill runners....rofl, it can do all sorts of ****, that's just one of the uses
it hits HARD if you have an ally who can root them for the full 4 seconds, and even if you shoot your root and then ult immediately you can get at least 3 seconds, maybe 3.5 seconds because it takes a second to walk sideways out of the decent sized aoe of the arrow
as if you NEED treads to proc more arrows when you have +70 AS from charged hammer once you get it, treads are fine, its situational
obviously frostwulf is good, frostwulf is nice on any hero, you give a totally moronic explanation...yeah, wingbow/savagemace/charged hammer/symbol/deso is nice in team fights too, NUFF SAID
here you go:
http://honcast.com/2010/01/gr-invitational-round-1-stfu-vs-4dr-game-1/
shieldbreaker, symbol of rage, savage mace, wingbow, geometer's bane, steamboots...everything benefits procs or images
1) glass cannon is fail; you fail if you die before you can get 4 shots off...
2) no comment :D
3) ult is situational, better use it to farm then fail in a team fight (unless if u have tempest or other heroes that can mass disable)
4) the proc doesn't matter because of ridiculous dps, especially when u get savage mace.
5) frostwolf is not good, ur playing for int that FA doesn't need, eventually u'll be countered by magebane! those are all in suggestions (deso should be too, not sure where it went)
replay) so if chu` jumps off a building u'd follow (shieldbreaker/frostburn is situational, if u have a stun team go shieldbreaker. feeling squishy, then trade charged hammer for symbol of rage. savage mace is just good. so is wingbow. geo bane is optional, dps is nice, basically super luxury item. steamboots = YES)?
sry is this doesn't make that much sense, getting dizzy looking at all the letters...
DarkWarrior
02-28-2010, 03:20 AM
This has to be one of the dumber guides I've seen.
Forsaken Archer should be maxing out Split Arrows directly after Volley and Call are maxed, while getting her ulti when possible. Forsaken is one of the heroes that doesn't need to sacrifice skills for att boosts, and is in fact not recommended to do at all. Why Split Arrows? Her core items(Frostwolf Skull, Shieldbreaker) stack with Split Arrows, and synergize with Volley. Seeing a Forsaken mid-game with either of her core items is already a huge intimidation factor, let alone when she gets to use it. Oh, did I mention how rediculously easy and quick it is for her to farm when SA is at 4?
As well, Call is a very very good early game ability because it also synergizes with Volley. A Forsaken in any lane(preferably mid due to major control and ganking power) can usually get free kills with Volley and Call. Anyone that doesn't rush Volley/Call as first skills on Forsaken is doing it wrong.
Also, while I've already stated why getting Frostwolf is MUCH better than Frostburn, Frostburn still isn't a bad item to grab if for some ungodly reason your gold intake is lacking by a thousand. Still, dominating team fights takes precedence over saving your own ass. You don't need the chasing/escaping power anyway, since you'll have gotten Ghost Marchers first if you have any inch of intelligence. 305 is more than most heroes, which means Ghost Marchers will get you the hell out if you use appropriate timing.
And...puzzlebox? Considering her ult is already heavily situational, relying on an ult/puzzlebox combo on Forsaken is absolutely retarded. If you pop the 4-5k into a fully upgraded puzzlebox as Forsaken, you deserve the resulting 1-9 score you receive.
But yeah. My personal strat is to rush Frostwolf, then depending on how the game is progressing, either grab Helm of the Black Legion, Shaman's Headdress, or Shieldbreaker. Skill build is 1-3-1-3-1-4-1-3-3-2-4-2-2-2-S-4-S+, which you can get away with if you weren't head on foot retarded during the laning phase.
edit: Charged Hammer can be taken over Frostwolf if you have lots of slow/disable on your team. It stacks with Split Arrows as well, so reap the rewards.
This has to be one of the dumber guides I've seen.
Forsaken Archer should be maxing out Split Arrows directly after Volley and Call are maxed, while getting her ulti when possible. Forsaken is one of the heroes that doesn't need to sacrifice skills for att boosts, and is in fact not recommended to do at all. Why Split Arrows? Her core items(Frostwolf Skull, Shieldbreaker) stack with Split Arrows, and synergize with Volley. Seeing a Forsaken mid-game with either of her core items is already a huge intimidation factor, let alone when she gets to use it. Oh, did I mention how rediculously easy and quick it is for her to farm when SA is at 4?
As well, Call is a very very good early game ability because it also synergizes with Volley. A Forsaken in any lane(preferably mid due to major control and ganking power) can usually get free kills with Volley and Call. Anyone that doesn't rush Volley/Call as first skills on Forsaken is doing it wrong.
Also, while I've already stated why getting Frostwolf is MUCH better than Frostburn, Frostburn still isn't a bad item to grab if for some ungodly reason your gold intake is lacking by a thousand. Still, dominating team fights takes precedence over saving your own ass. You don't need the chasing/escaping power anyway, since you'll have gotten Ghost Marchers first if you have any inch of intelligence. 305 is more than most heroes, which means Ghost Marchers will get you the hell out if you use appropriate timing.
And...puzzlebox? Considering her ult is already heavily situational, relying on an ult/puzzlebox combo on Forsaken is absolutely retarded. If you pop the 4-5k into a fully upgraded puzzlebox as Forsaken, you deserve the resulting 1-9 score you receive.
But yeah. My personal strat is to rush Frostwolf, then depending on how the game is progressing, either grab Helm of the Black Legion, Shaman's Headdress, or Shieldbreaker. Skill build is 1-3-1-3-1-4-1-3-3-2-4-2-2-2-S-4-S+, which you can get away with if you weren't head on foot retarded during the laning phase.
edit: Charged Hammer can be taken over Frostwolf if you have lots of slow/disable on your team. It stacks with Split Arrows as well, so reap the rewards.
keep playing 1300 games
alliednoob
02-28-2010, 11:34 AM
This has to be one of the dumber guides I've seen.
Forsaken Archer should be maxing out Split Arrows directly after Volley and Call are maxed, while getting her ulti when possible. Forsaken is one of the heroes that doesn't need to sacrifice skills for att boosts, and is in fact not recommended to do at all. Why Split Arrows? Her core items(Frostwolf Skull, Shieldbreaker) stack with Split Arrows, and synergize with Volley. Seeing a Forsaken mid-game with either of her core items is already a huge intimidation factor, let alone when she gets to use it. Oh, did I mention how rediculously easy and quick it is for her to farm when SA is at 4?
As well, Call is a very very good early game ability because it also synergizes with Volley. A Forsaken in any lane(preferably mid due to major control and ganking power) can usually get free kills with Volley and Call. Anyone that doesn't rush Volley/Call as first skills on Forsaken is doing it wrong.
Also, while I've already stated why getting Frostwolf is MUCH better than Frostburn, Frostburn still isn't a bad item to grab if for some ungodly reason your gold intake is lacking by a thousand. Still, dominating team fights takes precedence over saving your own ass. You don't need the chasing/escaping power anyway, since you'll have gotten Ghost Marchers first if you have any inch of intelligence. 305 is more than most heroes, which means Ghost Marchers will get you the hell out if you use appropriate timing.
And...puzzlebox? Considering her ult is already heavily situational, relying on an ult/puzzlebox combo on Forsaken is absolutely retarded. If you pop the 4-5k into a fully upgraded puzzlebox as Forsaken, you deserve the resulting 1-9 score you receive.
But yeah. My personal strat is to rush Frostwolf, then depending on how the game is progressing, either grab Helm of the Black Legion, Shaman's Headdress, or Shieldbreaker. Skill build is 1-3-1-3-1-4-1-3-3-2-4-2-2-2-S-4-S+, which you can get away with if you weren't head on foot retarded during the laning phase.
edit: Charged Hammer can be taken over Frostwolf if you have lots of slow/disable on your team. It stacks with Split Arrows as well, so reap the rewards.
1) frostwolf sucks, ur paying for int that you don't need and your also slow... STATS ARE SO YOU DON'T GET RAPED IN A TEAM FIGHT AND HAVE 1.9k HP AT LVL 17ish
2) the guide says to do that?
3) FROSTWOLF SUCKS BECAUSE THE EXTRA INT IS SOMETHING U DON'T NEED (IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN SPAM GROUND/ULT) AND DO YOU WANT TO BE RAPED BY MAGEBANE? GHOST MARCHERS ALSO SUCKS SO DON'T GET IT (if ur planing to semi carry that is).
4) Yes, u can't counter ward with them, they don't do dmg, and they don't have a shop cd because they're not OP.
5) HotBL sucks on FA, FROSTWOLF ALREADY SUCKS, Shaman's headdress is fine, sheildbreaker if ur planning to get charged hammer soon for epic dps. glass cannoning is fail unless if u plan feeding.
6) wtf? charged hammer DOESN'T stack with split shot arrows, they proc on main arrows... And frostburn with charged hammer and then savage mace is LOL, slows to everyone, epic dps so u get CL every second or so, and an 100 dmg true strike that procs WITH ALL ARROWS.
you just proved how stupid you are.
your ADR isn't even close to 2, wow...
R3NN11
03-01-2010, 10:51 AM
This has to be one of the dumber guides I've seen.
Forsaken Archer should be maxing out Split Arrows directly after Volley and Call are maxed, while getting her ulti when possible. Forsaken is one of the heroes that doesn't need to sacrifice skills for att boosts, and is in fact not recommended to do at all. Why Split Arrows? Her core items(Frostwolf Skull, Shieldbreaker) stack with Split Arrows, and synergize with Volley. Seeing a Forsaken mid-game with either of her core items is already a huge intimidation factor, let alone when she gets to use it. Oh, did I mention how rediculously easy and quick it is for her to farm when SA is at 4?
As well, Call is a very very good early game ability because it also synergizes with Volley. A Forsaken in any lane(preferably mid due to major control and ganking power) can usually get free kills with Volley and Call. Anyone that doesn't rush Volley/Call as first skills on Forsaken is doing it wrong.
Also, while I've already stated why getting Frostwolf is MUCH better than Frostburn, Frostburn still isn't a bad item to grab if for some ungodly reason your gold intake is lacking by a thousand. Still, dominating team fights takes precedence over saving your own ass. You don't need the chasing/escaping power anyway, since you'll have gotten Ghost Marchers first if you have any inch of intelligence. 305 is more than most heroes, which means Ghost Marchers will get you the hell out if you use appropriate timing.
And...puzzlebox? Considering her ult is already heavily situational, relying on an ult/puzzlebox combo on Forsaken is absolutely retarded. If you pop the 4-5k into a fully upgraded puzzlebox as Forsaken, you deserve the resulting 1-9 score you receive.
But yeah. My personal strat is to rush Frostwolf, then depending on how the game is progressing, either grab Helm of the Black Legion, Shaman's Headdress, or Shieldbreaker. Skill build is 1-3-1-3-1-4-1-3-3-2-4-2-2-2-S-4-S+, which you can get away with if you weren't head on foot retarded during the laning phase.
edit: Charged Hammer can be taken over Frostwolf if you have lots of slow/disable on your team. It stacks with Split Arrows as well, so reap the rewards.
Lots of fail posts in this thread, but this one is just wow....:o
Nice guide despite the retards trying to impose their fail builds
(guess FA is still a nub hero :p)
alliednoob
03-01-2010, 08:45 PM
Lots of fail posts in this thread, but this one is just wow....:o
Nice guide despite the retards trying to impose their fail builds
(guess FA is still a nub hero :p)
so true, saw a retard playing her today and would just sit and auto attacking like a retard... Couldn't even land easy grounds...
What are you guys talking about on Call of the Damned? I thought it sucked in the beginning until I noticed it like does three times FAs autoattack dmg when they all hit and have helped me get a lot of bloodlusts and kills.
Call of the damned is amazing early, late game it's just a giveaway when in stealth :(
Ugh, I don't know where to start. No chasing ability? What do you call your long range blind immobilize? Call of the Damned is outstanding for harassment and lane control.
Frostwolf skull is probably one of the best items for her. This will come as a huge surprise to you, but dealing maximum damage is not always the goal. Forsaken Archer's split arrow gives her the potential to provide so much control to the fight, not utilizing it would be retarded.
I can't imagine what compelled you to post this.
Haha moderators here have no mercy eh?
pk_thunder
03-20-2010, 11:59 AM
What are you guys talking about on Call of the Damned? I thought it sucked in the beginning until I noticed it like does three times FAs autoattack dmg when they all hit and have helped me get a lot of bloodlusts and kills.
Call of the damned is amazing early, late game it's just a giveaway when in stealth :(
well competent players will kill the skellies and get gold out of it
:souls: even gets souls out of it, and every soul gives him +2 dmg...
I have been trying to not skill skellies early but it's pretty damn annoying, wish S2 would make skellies a turn on/off skill...
pk_thunder
03-20-2010, 11:59 PM
I'm just gonna double post:
1) does Frostburn and Geo Bane's speed boost stack?
2) can you add Symbol of Rage after Savage Mace for the carry route?
3) also add bottle in the core items as a possible replacement for power supplies, because if ur farming your probably gonna use the ground a lot on neut camps
4) can you change it from Frostburn -> Geo Bane -> Savage Mace to Frostburn -> Geo Bane or Charged Hammer -> Savage Mace?
5) your starting items don't match up, it lists 2x runes of blight, 2x pcrown, and a minor tot but the pictures are different
6) there also should be an alternative build to FA that skills stats in place of skellies during laning if vs a :souls:/competent mid that will kill her skellies for gold.
I'm just gonna double post:
1) does Frostburn and Geo Bane's speed boost stack?
2) can you add Symbol of Rage after Savage Mace for the carry route?
3) also add bottle in the core items as a possible replacement for power supplies, because if ur farming your probably gonna use the ground a lot on neut camps
4) can you change it from Frostburn -> Geo Bane -> Savage Mace to Frostburn -> Geo Bane or Charged Hammer -> Savage Mace?
5) your starting items don't match up, it lists 2x runes of blight, 2x pcrown, and a minor tot but the pictures are different
6) there also should be an alternative build to FA that skills stats in place of skellies during laning if vs a :souls:/competent mid that will kill her skellies for gold.
1)no.its even stated in tooltip
2)how the hell will you get 2500+5000+6000+6000=20k gold.its even without wingbow. and you want symbol on top of that? lifesteal sucks on fa anyway imo
3)bottle is not necessary at all. you have 1 active skill with low mana cost. mana battery is more than enough. nailing neutrals with 200dmg nuke not worth it
4)charged is nowhere near geometers in terms of both dps and survivability. just pure damage. so-no.
5)fixd
6)vs soulstealer its pretty simple. you just go volley-nothing-volley-nothing etc, then when laning is over just max skellies in 1 second
pk_thunder
03-23-2010, 05:42 PM
1)no.its even stated in tooltip
2)how the hell will you get 2500+5000+6000+6000=20k gold.its even without wingbow. and you want symbol on top of that? lifesteal sucks on fa anyway imo
3)bottle is not necessary at all. you have 1 active skill with low mana cost. mana battery is more than enough. nailing neutrals with 200dmg nuke not worth it
4)charged is nowhere near geometers in terms of both dps and survivability. just pure damage. so-no.
5)fixd
6)vs soulstealer its pretty simple. you just go volley-nothing-volley-nothing etc, then when laning is over just max skellies in 1 second
1) rly, I didn't see it o.0, might wanna add that in there just in case?
2) it makes her so she won't get raped by :chro: if u get that far, also u can dominate a creep and farm even more with stacking (might be a core item?)
3) farm is always worth mana, cus u can regen mana, u can't regen gold as fast
4) :( it's my favorite route cus ppl get scared of lightning, but it adds more farming potential, problem is hp but by that time u should have 1.7k, and u shouldn't tank anyways
5(what used to be 6)) add that then? stats is still nice to get tho.
6) frostwolf also gives +mana (regen) which is completely useless on FA.
7) have you tested out harkons + split shot?
harkons is just bad. like,very
pk_thunder
03-23-2010, 08:18 PM
harkons is just bad. like,very
I'd actually like to test it in an an actual game, but I have so much doubt that I don't really wanna risk it (but I did hear that it applies the -magic armor with all arrows and is still counted as magic).
btw I would love to see you update your general gameplay with more detailed description (and how root + 6 skellies = kill) and stuff like that.
what can i write there?
land volley and right click?
fa is pretty much straight forward right click hero,not much to say about her
izzmad
03-24-2010, 05:28 AM
hm. i kinda agree with your carry build.. the other one is just gimmicks for killing tie in -EM games imo. i always go with bottle, ghost marchers, frostwulf, charged hammer, heart. in that order. later in the game piercing arrows do less damage than your normal attack, so vindicator as "worst enemy" is.. just wrong. overall i like the ffort u put into this guide!
pk_thunder
03-24-2010, 04:38 PM
hm. i kinda agree with your carry build.. the other one is just gimmicks for killing tie in -EM games imo. i always go with bottle, ghost marchers, frostwulf, charged hammer, heart. in that order. later in the game piercing arrows do less damage than your normal attack, so vindicator as "worst enemy" is.. just wrong. overall i like the ffort u put into this guide!
1) ghost marchers are not needed with frostburn
2) get frostburn, frostwulf gives +int, which she does not need...
3) I do agree that vindi is not her worst nightmare, but her ground is still a very important part of her.
vindicator leaves her without mana early game and completely shuts her down in mid game aoe clash because without ulti she is doing WAY less damage
others are not that much pain in ass
vindi is the only one
pk_thunder
03-25-2010, 07:50 PM
vindicator leaves her without mana early game and completely shuts her down in mid game aoe clash because without ulti she is doing WAY less damage
others are not that much pain in ass
vindi is the only one
I'd have to say any stun > 1.5 is very annoying to FA, I mean she is pretty squishy.
stuns are very annoying for EVERY hero
same for disables
its like saying "sky is blue"
pk_thunder
03-26-2010, 06:06 PM
stuns are very annoying for EVERY hero
same for disables
its like saying "sky is blue"
:zeph: is fine if he's stunned generally
but :fors: has a channeling spell, is squishy, and DID I SAY SHE IS SQUISHY?
this won't matter a lot if it's an int hero cus they don't need heavy farm (besides :pupp:) but :fors: does and no matter what items u get on her she's still squisher than melee carries and is still basically a glass tank even with a symbol of rage...
if i add stunners to hated enemies do u understand what will happen if newbies will read this guide?
"OMG THEY PICKED <STUN> ! ACCORDING TO GUIDE I CANT PICK FA CUZ ITS BAD OMG OMG"
you do realize that 95% of games have stunners,do you?
pk_thunder
03-26-2010, 07:32 PM
if i add stunners to hated enemies do u understand what will happen if newbies will read this guide?
"OMG THEY PICKED <STUN> ! ACCORDING TO GUIDE I CANT PICK FA CUZ ITS BAD OMG OMG"
you do realize that 95% of games have stunners,do you?
better than vindi?
how bout a HEAVY/CHAIN stun team?
heavy/chain stun destroys EVERY HERO. even blinkers.
you can add them to ALL guides on ALL non-str heroes. i dont really see the point of it. every guide have same BAD ENEMIES all over again- :behe::succ::poll: and others
i dont want ppl to stop picking fa if there is any kind of disable or stun because in most games there WILL be anyway.
vindi is real pain in ass. against such heavy stunners u can just ult from 1300 range and still have fun. against vindi you cant do a thing
pk_thunder
03-28-2010, 07:27 PM
heavy/chain stun destroys EVERY HERO. even blinkers.
you can add them to ALL guides on ALL non-str heroes. i dont really see the point of it. every guide have same BAD ENEMIES all over again- :behe::succ::poll: and others
i dont want ppl to stop picking fa if there is any kind of disable or stun because in most games there WILL be anyway.
vindi is real pain in ass. against such heavy stunners u can just ult from 1300 range and still have fun. against vindi you cant do a thing
then vindi is a counter to all heroes because all heroes have good ults/skills that they can use to turn the team fight around -.-
all carries except fa disagree
fa is a unique carry. with channeling ultimate.
vindi breakes 2 types of heroes-with spam spells and channeling spells.
fa is 2nd type.
pk_thunder
03-28-2010, 10:25 PM
all carries except fa disagree
fa is a unique carry. with channeling ultimate.
vindi breakes 2 types of heroes-with spam spells and channeling spells.
fa is 2nd type.
as a carry her ult doesn't win fights, it helps win fights, and if you even use it on most of them for like 1 second (regular reaction time for vindi to ult?) you can still do tons of dmg anyways.
`Ketot
04-09-2010, 07:18 PM
find; some pro to teach me more about HoN
email: crazee_doughnut@yahoo.com
also can add me at facebook and myspace!
Hoteske
04-10-2010, 05:59 PM
So say I got the core items for FA: Soulscream/Bracers, Boots (I like Ghost Marchers but I can pick Steamboots if my team needs a pseudo-carry), Power Supply, and Homecoming stones.
What should I aim for next? Frostburn, Shieldbreaker, or Savage Mace? Or something else?
Also, I think it's best to go with Volley as my first skill, and pick Stats or Skelies depending on the situation. I'll go for Stats if I'm getting a bit harassed, Skelies if I'm on the aggressive. What do you think about that?
SHJordan
04-10-2010, 06:58 PM
So say I got the core items for FA: Soulscream/Bracers, Boots (I like Ghost Marchers but I can pick Steamboots if my team needs a pseudo-carry), Power Supply, and Homecoming stones.
What should I aim for next? Frostburn, Shieldbreaker, or Savage Mace? Or something else?
Also, I think it's best to go with Volley as my first skill, and pick Stats or Skelies depending on the situation. I'll go for Stats if I'm getting a bit harassed, Skelies if I'm on the aggressive. What do you think about that?
i go frostburn then savage mace then charged hammer... normally then it's a gogo...
SilverStars
04-10-2010, 11:22 PM
Yeah, actually, what's with all the Thunderclaw FAs I'm seeing everywhere? How's thunderclaw/charged hammer as an FA item? It doesn't seem to do that much. Does it get a chance to proc 4 times on every split shot or something?
SHJordan
04-10-2010, 11:26 PM
Yeah, actually, what's with all the Thunderclaw FAs I'm seeing everywhere? How's thunderclaw/charged hammer as an FA item? It doesn't seem to do that much. Does it get a chance to proc 4 times on every split shot or something?
NOT! It just is a SPEED item to become ever more dedlier...
So say I got the core items for FA: Soulscream/Bracers, Boots (I like Ghost Marchers but I can pick Steamboots if my team needs a pseudo-carry), Power Supply, and Homecoming stones.
What should I aim for next? Frostburn, Shieldbreaker, or Savage Mace? Or something else?
Also, I think it's best to go with Volley as my first skill, and pick Stats or Skelies depending on the situation. I'll go for Stats if I'm getting a bit harassed, Skelies if I'm on the aggressive. What do you think about that?
now let me ask you,for what purpose did i wrote this guide if you dont even read it? -.-'
Chicolei
04-11-2010, 07:20 AM
not let me ask you,for what purpose did i wrote this guide if you dont even read it? -.-'
For printing out that cool pic of FA and using it as toilet paper. Seriously though, nice guide you have here, premium quality.
pk_thunder
04-22-2010, 08:24 PM
luckily no more ep on fa :D
ChaLkDust
04-22-2010, 09:10 PM
Frot burn has a CHANCE of slowing, while wolf is perma slow.
pk_thunder
04-22-2010, 10:01 PM
Frot burn has a CHANCE of slowing, while wolf is perma slow.
wtf r u smoking?
http://www.hondb.com/?item=frostburn
read it
(if ur using the official items page by S2, it's outdated >.>)
and if ur getting +int on fa, ur doing it horribly wrong...
Hoteske
04-28-2010, 03:10 AM
so with this new debuff to frostburn (3.5), what's your opinion of it on FA? Still worth getting? Or is it better to spend that gold on other items?
Bl00dz
04-28-2010, 09:00 AM
hm good guide but why we cant start with trinket of restoration if we face some mass magic dmg like thunder bringer and lately turns it in shamans headdress ...
And about call of the damned when u spawn 4 skeletons with 30 dmg ~~ and hit ur oponent once u do like 200 dmg with one attack and if u do that often u can fail him easy
i will update guide as soon as i will do some field testing with her
dr_stfu
04-28-2010, 03:37 PM
Call of the Damned's skeletons, albeit nerfed to hell, are still amazingly useful OP. They basically extend the range and increase the damage of your basic attack exponentially, ESPECIALLY early game and when used in conjunction with her volley I've gotten First blood almost every time I play her. You can endlessly harass the enemy, hell you can take on two heroes with a full rack of them. If they aren't working for you, it's because you aren't using them correctly. Not to mention as a farming tool they are indispensable. Fail.
pk_thunder
04-28-2010, 08:41 PM
hm good guide but why we cant start with trinket of restoration if we face some mass magic dmg like thunder bringer and lately turns it in shamans headdress ...
And about call of the damned when u spawn 4 skeletons with 30 dmg ~~ and hit ur oponent once u do like 200 dmg with one attack and if u do that often u can fail him easy
1) (about the frostburn) frostwolf skull now :(
2) rather get a shrunken head than a headdress, the power supplies will help too
3) what's ur point? it's obvious that all u need to do to win the lane is land arrow + kill with 6 skellies (or ult)
Artemiye
04-30-2010, 03:45 PM
Man, this whole thread is so full of fail I wouldn't know where to start. So I'll just say: the reason people go Thunderclaw/Charged Hammer on FA is because of the burst DPS from her skeletons, and combining that and the proc from Thunderclaw, it allows her to burst down enemies very quickly. And don't even get me started on her farming ability with that item...
To some previous posters: if I lane a Forsaken, and she doesn't want to get Call of the Damned, then rofl, so be it. It'll be an easy game for me. Because that ability is sooooo useless right?
...
RiceMore
04-30-2010, 04:33 PM
Man, this whole thread is so full of fail I wouldn't know where to start. So I'll just say: the reason people go Thunderclaw/Charged Hammer on FA is because of the burst DPS from her skeletons, and combining that and the proc from Thunderclaw, it allows her to burst down enemies very quickly. And don't even get me started on her farming ability with that item...
To some previous posters: if I lane a Forsaken, and she doesn't want to get Call of the Damned, then rofl, so be it. It'll be an easy game for me. Because that ability is sooooo useless right?
...
^^ If I lane a Forsaken who doesn't get skeletons it is probably one of the easiest lanes to harass and deny. Without skeletons Forsaken's ability to lane drops dramatically. If people knew how last hitting works they would understand.
Anyone who doesnt get skeles on FA can 1v1 me. I'll only use skeletons. No other ability. Skele + stats. Guaranteed 5-0.
SHJordan
04-30-2010, 06:17 PM
Anyone who doesnt get skeles on FA can 1v1 me. I'll only use skeletons. No other ability. Skele + stats. Guaranteed 5-0.
I'd really like to see it... xD~ a stat+skel build haha... would REALLY like seeing it...:fors:
By far the worst FA guide, No, Correction, WORST GUIDE I have ever read. Anyone who uses Split Arrows is an ignorance Nazi that uses cool abilities like arrow volley to deal damage after they have +400 damage on their melee attack. Die in a fire.
SHJordan
04-30-2010, 06:23 PM
By far the worst FA guide, No, Correction, WORST GUIDE I have ever read. Anyone who uses Split Arrows is an ignorance Nazi that uses cool abilities like arrow volley to deal damage after they have +400 damage on their melee attack. Die in a fire.
Hahaha...*coff* trolls *coff* So... how do you play? =] Tell us, good strategies are very welcome! =D:fors:
Okay heres the strategy. Don't get your first skill until you check rune and see fi you can gank at lvl 1. If you can, go volley. If you can't, theres no reason you will EVER cast volley at lvl 1. Get skeles, volley, skeles, volley, skeles, ult, skeles, volley, volley, stats until you can't get stats anymore.
SHJordan
04-30-2010, 06:31 PM
Okay heres the strategy. Don't get your first skill until you check rune and see fi you can gank at lvl 1. If you can, go volley. If you can't, theres no reason you will EVER cast volley at lvl 1. Get skeles, volley, skeles, volley, skeles, ult, skeles, volley, volley, stats until you can't get stats anymore.
Oh... in fact, that's makes sense, BUT... you said a thing like: skel, stat, skel, stat, skel, whatever, doesn't? I really wanna see THIS in action... not confronting you... btw, i'm not a great player =] post a replay for us if possible! =D
Artemiye
04-30-2010, 06:32 PM
Hahaha...*coff* trolls *coff* So... how do you play? =] Tell us, good strategies are very welcome! =D:fors:
You have an average of 1.8 creep denies per game (and 47 apm). I'll warn you right now, don't embarrass yourself by 1v1ing him.
This thread should be stickied, it's quite epic.
SHJordan
04-30-2010, 06:38 PM
You have an average of 1.8 creep denies per game (and 47 apm). I'll warn you right now, don't embarrass yourself by 1v1ing him.
This thread should be stickied, it's quite epic.
Yep, i know... =] I'm quite newbie for him... but no problem with that. Like learning strategies, that's all. If he CAN out-rule anyone with skels+stats, i'd REALLY like seeing it. =]
SHJordan
04-30-2010, 06:42 PM
I can out-rule you.
For sure. No complains 'bout that! =]
Also, the maker of this guide.
SHJordan
04-30-2010, 06:44 PM
Also, the maker of this guide.
Would like seeing it. =] REALLY! XD~
jorge69696
04-30-2010, 06:50 PM
Also, the maker of this guide.
You are so pro. You should be on tournaments.
SHJordan
04-30-2010, 06:53 PM
He should, FOR SURE! =D
You have an average of 1.8 creep denies per game (and 47 apm). I'll warn you right now, don't embarrass yourself by 1v1ing him.
This thread should be stickied, it's quite epic.
i asked about 5 times about making this guide premium,still nothing. :[
ok,updated with latest patch
dont want to delete frost vs burn section since if they will fix frostburn i will be owned.
dont want to write it again
RiceMore
05-01-2010, 01:13 AM
Rean, the truth is this guide is not good. If you're going to edit it do it right. You dont need to have everything perfect, but PLEASE stop steering people in the wrong direction. thunderclaw is better than frostburn and frostwolf skull on this hero. It lets you farm, and deal burst damage. You don't need a slow, and split shot is the worst ability in the game
lets take a look at all items just for you
ganker build:
nullfire-escape/chase tool
puzzlebox-HP+dmg+mana burn+aoe counter
shieldbreaker-endgame damage booster
overall pretty balanced between survivability and damage
carry build:
shrunken-hp and magic protection
geometers-hp,ms and damage boost
frostwolf-hp+awesome orb
wingbow-damage + evasion
savage mace-end game booster
every item except savage increases your survivability
and then it comes to thunderclaw. ONLY DAMAGE with NO SURVIVABILITY OR WHATEVER
if you enjoy playing 700 hp carry thats your choice. but that wont work outside of 1500 tier.
thunderclaw is MEH item for valk and its MEH item for FA. not a single decent player gets it.
pk_thunder
05-01-2010, 12:07 PM
Rean, the truth is this guide is not good. If you're going to edit it do it right. You dont need to have everything perfect, but PLEASE stop steering people in the wrong direction. thunderclaw is better than frostburn and frostwolf skull on this hero. It lets you farm, and deal burst damage. You don't need a slow, and split shot is the worst ability in the game
1) thunderclaw is bad, I hate the item
2) I like charged hammer because of the 70+ atk speed, the clain lightning is just a bonus that doesn't rly matter cus it's MAGIC DAMAGE
3) it let's you farm? so ur saying FA can't farm already? it's like getting an alch bones on zeph, you don't need it cus u can farm like crazy already
4) frostburn was the best, it gave you survivability, speed boost, a slow and NON-MAGICAL dmg. forstwolf gives even more of all of that just no speed boost. idk what ur on but thunderclaw is probably one of the crappiest items out there (next to EP) on most heroes (besides :engi:, only cus his turret and turrent could shoot lightning too, adding nuff dps for it to be worth it's money)
RiceMore
05-01-2010, 01:46 PM
You guys obviously cant grasp the fact that she gains crazy amounts of armor base. Thunderclaw is a quick first item that gets you to items like shrunken head a lot faster. Yes FA can farm well on her own, but she cant farm anywhere near the amount zephyr can so that was probably the worst comparison i've ever seen.
yes,buying item for 3000 gold when total cost of shrunken is 3900 is a very smart move.
are you on crack? or another drugs?
RiceMore
05-01-2010, 01:53 PM
Ok, you don't seem to get it. You get thunderclaw and up your damage, because you can get it early enough that you shouldn't be needing hp yet. Then you build up hp items or shrunken head to start living. If you're in need of shrunken head before you get any other item...you're doing something wrong
yes,hp early when nukes and burst damage are dominating is totally stupid. your 800hp will save you
seriously, drop drugs. they are destroying your brains
RiceMore
05-01-2010, 02:04 PM
Sorry you suck at HoN. I know its a hard concept to grasp, but you're doing it wrong.
i wonder why dont we see cd with thunder if its so awesome. or MQ. or any other carry without great farming skills early.
WHYYYYYYYY?
RiceMore
05-01-2010, 02:09 PM
And you say i'm on drugs?
Why are you comparing the item on a different hero. That has absolutely nothing to do with this guide at all. And the reason you dont see cd with thunder is because he has a much better attack animation and doesn't need thunderclaw. He'll accidentally last hit creeps with his aoe while killing players.
so the reason why we get thunderclaw is.......ATTACK ANIMATION?
go on,explain why its good on FA and bad on all others. gogo
i will listen
if u convience me i will change that in my guide
RiceMore
05-01-2010, 02:16 PM
No we get thunderclaw for the proc. That adds tons of damage, base and when it procs. It's not bad on all others, but its not good on most heros. Its specifically good on fa because you can farm it quickly, and use it effectively. It makes you control the lane even more so than normal with FA, gives you more skeletons at a faster rate, and harasses your lane. I fail to see why this is a bad item and why you refuse to believe anything anyone tells you about your guide being bad.
PS there's a reason this isn't a premium guide and it's not because they just didn't take the time to make it one.
u know i asked about 3 mods about making this guide premium,they all said it fits into premium and they will ask sucker because he is in charge.
now guess what is stopping it from premium title
now back to thunderclaw.
we all know who is the best farmer in hon. its Angrytestie. Lets check his latest FA matches
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=41500128 no thunder
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=39597398 no thunder
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=38097564 no thunder
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=37694611 no thunder
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=37138986 no thunder
sorry but your argument "THIS IS FOR FARMING" is invalid. FA farms without it just as well
Nani`
05-01-2010, 03:16 PM
Seriously, Rean, you are absolutely right here.
It such a bad first item to get, on any hero besides Engi. At the time you could get it and even most of the time after it, it is AoE- and Nuke time. You seriously think any half decent player won't gank you when he sees you have 800 hp? Every team fight you will get raped by jsut the littlest bit of damage.
Both Frostburn and Shrunken Head are infinitly better than Thunderclaw right now.
It can be a good item after those 2, or at least after Frostburn. There are heroes that are good at being glass cannons, FA not so much.
Please, don't ever get Thunderclaw as your first item, it's terrible. It doesn't give you anything you need early on.
FA is an incredible farmer. ALL. GAME. LONG. No need to get a pure farming item first, rather get some HP and a slow, that can also be placed on the entire enemy team(!!!!!).
As to getting Thunderclaw for the burst damage: Take a closer look at FA's abilities. We have: a disable with some decent damage, Skeletons that do crazy damage early on and huge AoE ulti. You don't need more damage, you need HP to actually be able to do the damage you already have.
pk_thunder
05-01-2010, 05:10 PM
No we get thunderclaw for the proc. That adds tons of damage, base and when it procs. It's not bad on all others, but its not good on most heros. Its specifically good on fa because you can farm it quickly, and use it effectively. It makes you control the lane even more so than normal with FA, gives you more skeletons at a faster rate, and harasses your lane. I fail to see why this is a bad item and why you refuse to believe anything anyone tells you about your guide being bad.
PS there's a reason this isn't a premium guide and it's not because they just didn't take the time to make it one.
it sounds like ur saying laning phase lasts for 30 minutes...
nobody really lanes after 15 minutes, l2p
FA can already farm, skellies can jungle, split shot pwnz a creep wave 2nd to demon hands once u get the old forstburn
the reasons this isn't a prem guide is because it's not indepth, and why don't you spend the countless hours making a piss poor FA guide around ur thunderclaw idea?
And you say i'm on drugs?
Why are you comparing the item on a different hero. That has absolutely nothing to do with this guide at all. And the reason you dont see cd with thunder is because he has a much better attack animation and doesn't need thunderclaw. He'll accidentally last hit creeps with his aoe while killing players.
WTF, CD has basically the same atk animation just his projectile speed is ridiculous and what does thunderclaw have to do with an attack animation?
CD with thunderclaw makes more sense than FA with thunderclaw because he needs the farming ability...
All of FA's skills can be used to farm, CD only 1 (u can argue that his ult can be used, but I'd save it for chasing)
Artemiye
05-01-2010, 05:15 PM
Ugh, I don't know where to start. No chasing ability? What do you call your long range blind immobilize? Call of the Damned is outstanding for harassment and lane control.
Frostwolf skull is probably one of the best items for her. This will come as a huge surprise to you, but dealing maximum damage is not always the goal. Forsaken Archer's split arrow gives her the potential to provide so much control to the fight, not utilizing it would be retarded.
I can't imagine what compelled you to post this.
I'm going to quote a previous poster, agree with him, then leave this fail thread alone.
Some people will just...never understand.
pk_thunder
05-01-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm going to quote a previous poster, agree with him, then leave this fail thread alone.
Some people will just...never understand.
I like the fact that that post was around 10 patches ago (aka 6 months)
nice fail
Woolygimp
05-08-2010, 04:24 PM
Why are there idiots in this thread saying that Frostburn is better than Frostwolf?
Frostwolf has a -20% attack speed reduction and 30% snare which you can land on the entire enemy team with split arrows, which is a huge help in team fights.
It's basically a -20% to auto attack damage to the entire enemy team.
What does Frostburn give you? More movement speed? Plz.
Bad guide.
Twiggie
05-08-2010, 05:58 PM
Why are there idiots in this thread saying that Frostburn is better than Frostwolf?
Frostwolf has a -20% attack speed reduction and 30% snare which you can land on the entire enemy team with split arrows, which is a huge help in team fights.
It's basically a -20% to auto attack damage to the entire enemy team.
What does Frostburn give you? More movement speed? Plz.
Bad guide.
frostburn into geo's and frostwolf. followed by two of charged hammer, rifts and savage mace.