Barbed Armor Restriction - Thoughts + Poll

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Hello all,

as I play mainly carry in my team, I have constantly encountered Barbed Armor stacking on at least 3+ people from the opposing team to limit my DPS options in team battles.

Now, I don't have problems with Barbed Armor as an item, but rather its cost. It is SO cheap, that practically late game it's not a problem for the whole team to get Barbed Armors and that's when the shenanigans start to happen.

I was wondering if a restriction like 2 or 3 per team like Totem or Astro is good for the sake of balance.

Discuss and happy Thanksgiving.

[Maxter1]

Testing post.

wut?

[noodle0117]

barbed armor only lasts for 5 seconds.
Deal with it.

[akitoes]

barbed armor only lasts for 5 seconds.
Deal with it.
facepalm

[FuzzyWuzzy]

barbed armor only lasts for 5 seconds.
Deal with it.

And team fights last how long?

Seriously, my last scrim involved 3 barbed armors + Madman with Symbol of Rage who activated it to heal himself to maximum health per hit.

I had 1 target left in battle with Puppet, and that was Pyro, who died in 2 hits anyway.

[Vulpes]

It's designed to counter squishy Heroes using critical hits;
Would be kind of stupid if the overfed carry then simply switches targets.

If your opponents activate Barbed Armor, all of you back out and simply do nothing;
then go back in after 5 seconds.. if you fear to die in that timeframe, buy Barbed Armor.

[ETisME]

not limiting the number of barbared armor.....
but may be adding a recipe price...
through I think that it isn't that cheap because you mainly get it on support heroes such as vindicator (to stay alive as long as possible for your aura effect) who farm slowly and getting barbared armor would means you are delaying other items

[Chipper]

It's designed to counter squishy Heroes using critical hits;
Would be kind of stupid if the overfed carry then simply switches targets.

If your opponents activate Barbed Armor, all of you back out and simply do nothing;
then go back in after 5 seconds.. if you fear to die in that timeframe, buy Barbed Armor.

Thing is, you generally can't just walk away from a teamfight after it has started.

If u walk away and stop attacking for 5 seconds, do you think the other team will decide fair is fair and stop attacking too?

[Darxio]

Attack through it and take the beating like a man.

Also, Symbol of Rage to counter damage and actually heal instead.

[neverwononce]

i think it should be limited like sheepstick and puzzlebox. maybe 2/3 per team at max

[Trig]

Barbed armor is far from amazing. If you look at a list, its only viable on some heroes. You need it on a hero that has a higher healthpool but a lower armor amount than you.. some of these Hero's are Demented Shaman and Magmus.. its only good on a select few so deal with it.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Attack through it and take the beating like a man.

Also, Symbol of Rage to counter damage and actually heal instead.

You don't have to tell me counters to Barbed Armor. I think I know mechanics after all.

The point is, Barbed is a lot cheaper than its counters (in your example, its double the price).

[livedili]

You can counter an well farmed Carry who entirely depends on attacking, with a single cheap item, and it doesnt ******* matter who gets it, where is the logic behind this. There is no other item in the game which closes the farming gap so efficiently like barbed armor.
nerf it. hard. 50% reflection, double price, 35 secs cooldown.

[Glorify1]

Only hero it really hurts is Maliken, who splashes with his attack, meaning he does big damage to himself if an entire team gets it. Otherwise, you can simply change targets, or counter it with life steal.

[weeD`SuFFo]

No...
If you restrict such item, what you gonna do when they port heroes like ursa here? Perma-ban her? I don't think so.

[MrShine]

null blade.

[ElementUser]

Congratulations, your enemies have used up an item slot for Barbed Armor!

[Fenald]

The only item restriction that ever made sense were old necrobook and stackable mek. (aka this game doesn't need any item restrictions right now)

I don't know what idiot pussies came up with all these item rules.

Teams farming 3 guinsoos? You deserve to be sheeped.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

The only item restriction that ever made sense were old necrobook and stackable mek. (aka this game doesn't need any item restrictions right now)

I don't know what idiot pussies came up with all these item rules.

Teams farming 3 guinsoos? You deserve to be sheeped.

How is actually comparing a 5k+ gold item to a 2.5k item good for discussion?

And I'm sorry but no leech apart from Symbol of Rage, which costs 5.5k gold, is going to save you from Barbed Armor.

[Fenald]

How is actually comparing a 5k+ gold item to a 2.5k item good for discussion?

And I'm sorry but no leech apart from Symbol of Rage, which costs 5.5k gold, is going to save you from Barbed Armor.
Switch targets.

2 people farmed it?

Comparable price.

3 people farmed it?

Costs more than symbol of rage.

I accept your apology.

[neverwononce]

Switch targets.

2 people farmed it?

Comparable price.

3 people farmed it?

Costs more than symbol of rage.

I accept your apology.

ok the whole point of this thread is that you limit how many blademails a team can get.
switch targets does not work if the whole team has blademail.
and i dont think you guys get this, but blademail is CHEAP. CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP. and it counters all the late game damage items and nukes. that is if the whole team has it.

[Fenald]

ok the whole point of this thread is that you limit how many blademails a team can get.
switch targets does not work if the whole team has blademail.
and i dont think you guys get this, but blademail is CHEAP. CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP. and it counters all the late game damage items and nukes. that is if the whole team has it.
Already been stated that the counter is symbol of rage.

If the whole team has it then they invested far more into them than the carry did into symbol.

1 blademail is cheap 5 isn't.

It's effective against aoe heroes and high damage low hp carries which coincidentally is exactly what people ******* cry about anyway.

[neverwononce]

Already been stated that the counter is symbol of rage.

If the whole team has it then they invested far more into them than the carry did into symbol.

1 blademail is cheap 5 isn't.

It's effective against aoe heroes and high damage low hp carries which coincidentally is exactly what people ******* cry about anyway.

symbol of rage is the second most expensive item in the game, only doombringer costs more, and symbol of rage only steals like what, 25 percent of attack dmg? while blademail reflects full dmg at the cost of 2k, thats roughly less than half of what symbol of rage costs. and of course 5 blademails won't be cheap. thats why the whole team can get 1 each. i dont believe this is a valid arguing point that 5 blademails arent cheap.
and yes they are counters to the low hp high dmg carry heroes but when you have something that reflects 100% of dmg dealt that can be activated on all 5 heroes, thats just too good of an item.
the item makes heroes afraid to attack you for 5 seconds, thus eliminating their effect on big battles. this is exactly why sheepstick(kundra) was banned, because the disable was too imbalanced, and sheepstick only lasts 3.5 seconds.

[Fenald]

symbol of rage is the second most expensive item in the game, only doombringer costs more, and symbol of rage only steals like what, 25 percent of attack dmg? while blademail reflects full dmg at the cost of 2k, thats roughly less than half of what symbol of rage costs. and of course 5 blademails won't be cheap. thats why the whole team can get 1 each. i dont believe this is a valid arguing point that 5 blademails arent cheap.
and yes they are counters to the low hp high dmg carry heroes but when you have something that reflects 100% of dmg dealt that can be activated on all 5 heroes, thats just too good of an item.
the item makes heroes afraid to attack you for 5 seconds, thus eliminating their effect on big battles. this is exactly why sheepstick(kundra) was banned, because the disable was too imbalanced, and sheepstick only lasts 3.5 seconds.


Christ you're dumb.

Are you even aware that symbol of rage has an active ability?

[Banished]

Christ you're dumb.

Are you even aware that symbol of rage has an active ability?

I read these forums to escape General Beta Discussion type posts, yet you attract them even here Fenald :(.

[Fenald]

I read these forums to escape General Beta Discussion type posts, yet you attract them even here Fenald :(.
It's not my fault they follow me in games too specifically to my team.


lol@overwhelming poll rape.

[Happyfish]

well its safe to assume the people who think barbed armor stacking is imba are the same who are not smart enough to understand the voting mechanic.

Therefore the poll is skewed towards proper intelligence

[rhave]

only reason to really have it in the first place is if you know the enemy is going for you because they see you as biggest threat.

today played a game as pest (http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=13753568) where enemies their entire team went for me after 2 battles of me 3 shotting thier squishies, so I got barbed mail and when they went on me third time they found a nice suprise and instantly dropped to 20% health cause they unloaded on me. They were dumb enough to do it fourth time too. (was pretty funny when I preamtively poped barbed mail, lego then blinking on top of me, taunting, blade mailing as well so we both blade mailed each other. No homo. We both ended up being low :( )

[FuzzyWuzzy]

lol@overwhelming poll rape.

I obviously knew the poll results before I even made it, it is normal for people who don't want change :)

I remember the Dota polls for Necro books and Guinsoos and it was the same.

And Fenald, Symbol of Rage is only for auto-attacking carries. If you have Soul Reaper or Moon Queen or Defiler, what are you going to do except stack HP?

Not to mention that in Dota, orbs do NOT stack, so Symbol is even less of an option, so it's even more ridiculous there.

[Fenald]

I obviously knew the poll results before I even made it, it is normal for people who don't want change :)

I remember the Dota polls for Necro books and Guinsoos and it was the same.

And Fenald, Symbol of Rage is only for auto-attacking carries. If you have Soul Reaper or Moon Queen or Defiler, what are you going to do except stack HP?

Not to mention that in Dota, orbs do NOT stack, so Symbol is even less of an option, so it's even more ridiculous there.

If you're not the carry then don't hit things that are barbed armored......

If you're soul reaper or defiler stacking survivability items is exactly what you should be doing regardless of barbed armors.

Do you even play this game competitively?

[Nervi]

fenald loves to argue stubbornly for whatever he thinks. hes a fan of backdooring being allowed btw.

FFS have used barbed armor to an extreme annoyance a couple times. I remember playing them a couple times in a row and by the end of it I was saying 'id rather ban barbed armor than heroes'. no one in vent could disagree. games werent won because of it, we won and lost some but it was just fuc king gay.

would be nice to have it limited. dumbest shi t in this thread is you retards who list the counters and act as if that instantly nullifies any use the item has what-so-ever. so many different things can happen in a game to make X not work well or Y work really well. you cant just definitively give counters to things in this game.

[Rawrapillar]

hes a fan of backdooring being allowed btw.



That mother ****er.

[TheMadman]

The poll says Nay wins but the posts say restrictions wins. Only Fenald is resisting in here while several people have posted in support of this.

I am posting in support of some kind of change to barbed armor.

[Fenald]

The poll says Nay wins but the posts say restrictions wins. Only Fenald is resisting in here while several people have posted in support of this.

I am posting in support of some kind of change to barbed armor.
Only I'm resisting because as nervi says I love arguing against incredibly stupid things people say while everyone else is just content facepalming and voting **** no.


fenald loves to argue stubbornly for whatever he thinks. hes a fan of backdooring being allowed btw.

FFS have used barbed armor to an extreme annoyance a couple times. I remember playing them a couple times in a row and by the end of it I was saying 'id rather ban barbed armor than heroes'. no one in vent could disagree. games werent won because of it, we won and lost some but it was just fuc king gay.

would be nice to have it limited. dumbest shi t in this thread is you retards who list the counters and act as if that instantly nullifies any use the item has what-so-ever. so many different things can happen in a game to make X not work well or Y work really well. you cant just definitively give counters to things in this game.

It's not supposed to be nullified people buy items to get use out of them not for them to be useless.

People use low cost stat items to extreme annoyance too. Maybe we could get a restriction on bracers/branches to prevent this highly annoying tactic.

Nerfing blademail is a buff to carries and aoe heroes. They don't need it.

[Nervi]

your ever so idiotic logic strikes again. dis nig ga best be trollin

[Fenald]

your ever so idiotic logic strikes again. dis nig ga best be trollin
Nice reply.

I accept your apology.

[Tanubis]

This looks like straight up trolling. Barbed armor is NOT that great an item, and symbol of rage is an excellent counter for it. It is meant as a counter for very specific things - like the AoE rape team, the farmed carry, etc. If the entire enemy team is wasting 2.5k gold and an item slot just for you, your presence has already contributed quite a bit. And you can always switch targets if it's less than that.

[argondey]

fenald loves to argue stubbornly for whatever he thinks. hes a fan of backdooring being allowed btw.

FFS have used barbed armor to an extreme annoyance a couple times. I remember playing them a couple times in a row and by the end of it I was saying 'id rather ban barbed armor than heroes'. no one in vent could disagree. games werent won because of it, we won and lost some but it was just fuc king gay.

would be nice to have it limited. dumbest shi t in this thread is you retards who list the counters and act as if that instantly nullifies any use the item has what-so-ever. so many different things can happen in a game to make X not work well or Y work really well. you cant just definitively give counters to things in this game.

im not sure whether you are argueing that barbed shouldnt make carries completely useless(which it doesnt) or that changeing targets or getting symbol or nullfire doesnt counter it, either way, youre arguements suck, many carries already get nullfire, which happens to cost 3300, and imo, is a much better counter to barbed than symbol of rage, though, admittedly, the best counter is to wait the 5 seconds

[Nervi]

im not sure whether you are argueing that barbed shouldnt make carries completely useless(which it doesnt)

I never said barbed armor SHOULD or SHOULDNT do anything...


or that changeing targets or getting symbol or nullfire doesnt counter it

k...

team fight scenario
team 1 has many barbed armors, activates, initiates, ults wins team fight. team 2 couldnt get counters for barbed in time, messed up and lion accidently blasted himself with ult as someone activates barbed and he dies.

maybe team 2 does get these so called counters, but they screw up, or they arent as effective as you have theory-crafted.

I LOVE scenarios that fit my argument, your turn!

so like I said you can try to act like there are set in stone counter to barbed and imagine a team fight going down in your head as if you could predict what 9 other people besides yourself would do in any given situation.

OR you can just give your opinion on the matter with logic involved, and try to understand what the people youre quoting are saying, or just think youre right, no argument and hope whoever runs the next tourney thinks your end of the spectrum is right.


either way, youre arguements suck, many carries already get nullfire, which happens to cost 300, and imo, is a much better counter to barbed than symbol of rage, though, admittedly, the best counter is to wait the 5 seconds

just refer to my above comments

[DownandDirty]

Buy blademail yourself is the counter. if he activates it you activate yours and nuke him Does 2x the damage to him and only 1 x the damage to you.
Oh and chuck norris dies.

EDIT: Oh unless his is still up which it will hit you again for 2x then yours will be still up which will hit him for 3x ZOMG> fark op for 2k gold i can do 5k worth of wowzers damage and my carry killed itself. OMG OMG OMG.

hehehehe

[argondey]

team fight scenario
team 1 has many barbed armors, activates, initiates, ults wins team fight. team 2 couldnt get counters for barbed in time, messed up and lion accidently blasted himself with ult as someone activates barbed and he dies.

maybe team 2 does get these so called counters, but they screw up, or they arent as effective as you have theory-crafted.

I LOVE scenarios that fit my argument, your turn!

k, here goes, ok, lion goes in, stuns a tempest 2 levels below him by tempests tower, he uses mini while attacking, but oh wait he forgot he didnt have enough mana to spam all his spells at once and tempests meteors and ults, and the tower rapes him, oh sh**

point is, there are no perfect set in stone situations, you can ALWAYS mess up, thats the whole point of the game

edit: also, if both teams have barbed armor, and one team initiates, the advantage is lost

[FiNGERS]

I am against any and all item restrictions. I think they're stupid.

[Nervi]

k, here goes, ok, lion goes in, stuns a tempest 2 levels below him by tempests tower, he uses mini while attacking, but oh wait he forgot he didnt have enough mana to spam all his spells at once and tempests meteors and ults, and the tower rapes him, oh sh**

point is, there are no perfect set in stone situations, you can ALWAYS mess up, thats the whole point of the game

edit: also, if both teams have barbed armor, and one team initiates, the advantage is lost

you didnt even mention barbed armor at all in your made up game encounter, you suck at this.

right so you agree with me by saying "point is, there are no perfect set in stone situations, you can ALWAYS mess up, thats the whole point of the game"

but you decided to post for what reason? whole point of my post is to disagree with the 'THIS is the counter to barbed armor' statements being made. which like you even said cant be done because "there are no perfect set in stone situations"

both teams made barbed armor because one team did it first and it was gay, annoying, and winning them team fights so the other team copied to compensate. at that point its like simplifying in math... barbed armor is the common factor, the difference there was one teams superior ability to initiate. ya that team won.. **** it hurts my brain to even read your logic 'the advantage is lost' WHAT ADVANTAGE THEY ALL HAD BARBED

[spikernum1]

Congratulations, your enemies have used up an item slot for Barbed Armor!

this

[AequitaZ]

Ofcourse BArbed Armor is cheaper than the counter, but it's not useful for aggressive gameplay and it only helps you to survive, not kill anybody.

[Nervi]

Nice reply.

I accept your apology.


Teams farming 3 guinsoos? You deserve to be sheeped.

yep, anyone who thinks the 3 guinsoo rule is good is an idiot puss y according to fenald. solid argument


Already been stated that the counter is symbol of rage.

A SINGLE carry player is having MULTIPLE players use barbed armor against him and ONE symbol of rage is the counter to I believe THREE barbed armors according to the original poster? better soak up the entire 3.5 seconds of that activated ability and hope you dont get CC'd during the duration.
Symbol - 3.5sec activate, 31.5sec CD. Quantity: 1
Barbed - 5sec activate, 10sec CD. Quantity: 3


If the whole team has it then they invested far more into them than the carry did into symbol.

more amazing logic by fenald.
> 2k per person(5 people) for barbed to reflect 100% dmg from all heroes. 5sec dura, 10sec CD
> 5.5k(1 person) for symbol so that the carry can counter barbed armor. 3.5sec dura, 31.5sec CD

* buying a barbed and buying a symbol... two COMPLETELY different things. *
-no piece of barbed is more than 1200, the total cost is like 2100?
-Its easy to buy in small increments, making it plausable for almost every hero to get one in a timely manner.
-Why is Symbol different? One piece costs 3200g.
-symbol to be effective has a pre-requisite, good auto atk dmg to make good health returns.
-the only pre-requisite for barbed armor is to know youre going to take dmg in your HoN game.

I dont know how these are comparable when you yourself in the quote said the whole team has barbed compared to 1 symbol... you activate symbol and get sheeped/stuned, dmgd/killed, ok the activate ability just did nothing. barbed no matter what is happening to you does SOMETHING.



People use low cost stat items to extreme annoyance too. Maybe we could get a restriction on bracers/branches to prevent this highly annoying tactic.

people dont buy low cost stat items to be extremely annoying, and I also didnt say people bought barbed armor to BE annoying, I said it WAS annoying. That comment really has no relation to barbed armor or logic behind it at all... if you truly think thats why people get 'low cost stat items' just say now so I know you have no real argument


I accept your apology.

nice punch line, was so good you used it twice

[Nervi]

Ofcourse BArbed Armor is cheaper than the counter, but it's not useful for aggressive gameplay and it only helps you to survive, not kill anybody.

how does reflecting 100% of dmg for 5 seconds not help you kill somebody? especially in a team fight when collateral dmg is being tossed around. If I activate my barbed and you dont atk me and im atking you how is that also NOT helping you kill someone?

[Zelniq]

this has got to be a troll thread, right? Symbol of Rage a counter to Barbed Armors? LOL

[_Archangel_]

Fenald is right. Barbed Armor does not need a limit.

If the whole team pops Barbed Armor, stand back and wait for five seconds, then proceed to rape. Seriously.

(Symbol of Rage isn't really a viable counter to Barbed Armor.)

[tabako]

Item restrictions in tournaments/leagues, on any item, is bad for the game imo.

That said, most of the people in this thread do not understand what it is like to play against a well organized, high skilled team with 3+ barbed armors. It is really really annoying and can be quite effective with the right lineup (think bursty). There are no real counters to mass barbed armor unless you think fighting with better execution could be considered a counter, and there are certainly no item counters to it. (having one person who is able to autoattack through a barbed activation because they farmed a 6k item is not a counter).

[balmain]

Fenald is right. Barbed Armor does not need a limit.

If the whole team pops Barbed Armor, stand back and wait for five seconds, then proceed to rape. Seriously.

(Symbol of Rage isn't really a viable counter to Barbed Armor.)

what if they pop it mid battle? this is competitive games we are talking about, you can't just "stand back" if you saw any of the comp replays you would know team fights happen in about 5-15 seconds. if the whole opponent team backs away for 5 seconds while the other team is still using everything they've got againist them and chasing them, who do you think will win the fight? and the ability to have the whole team do that every 15 seconds?


Item restrictions in tournaments/leagues, on any item, is bad for the game imo.

That said, most of the people in this thread do not understand what it is like to play against a well organized, high skilled team with 3+ barbed armors. It is really really annoying and can be quite effective with the right lineup (think bursty). There are no real counters to mass barbed armor unless you think fighting with better execution could be considered a counter, and there are certainly no item counters to it. (having one person who is able to autoattack through a barbed activation because they farmed a 6k item is not a counter).

agreed

[neverwononce]

Christ you're dumb.

Are you even aware that symbol of rage has an active ability?

me dumb? please dont resort to name calling when you know you cant counter any of the arguments made and dont want to admit your wrong. makes you look like an idiot.
btw of course i know symbol of rage has a active skill. but its cd is 35 seconds compared to the 15 of barbed and 3.5 duration compared to the 5. funny how this is the only thing you cling to when everyone else acknowledged that a 6k item on one hero with the duration of 3.5 seconds isnt a counter, it isn't even close.
i accept your apology

[Fenald]

Blink on stunners is an effective multiuse counter of similar cost.

The more of your health you lose before you can activate it the less effective it is.

barbed armors are effective, they're meant to be all items are.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

I am against any and all item restrictions. I think they're stupid.

I guess you don't follow Dota much...

Loda almost made MYM cry with 5 Necrobooks. MYM still won, but it was only due to one bad fight from Fnatic.

And Tabako, thanks for the support. ^^

And some people really are just talking dry mechanics, not real matches. Once a team fight starts, you can't really "back off" for 5 seconds in order to wait for Armor to expire...

[Fenald]

me dumb? please dont resort to name calling when you know you cant counter any of the arguments made and dont want to admit your wrong. makes you look like an idiot.
btw of course i know symbol of rage has a active skill. but its cd is 35 seconds compared to the 15 of barbed and 3.5 duration compared to the 5. funny how this is the only thing you cling to when everyone else acknowledged that a 6k item on one hero with the duration of 3.5 seconds isnt a counter, it isn't even close.
i accept your apology

Nay http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/images/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/images/polls/bar2-r.gifhttp://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/clear.gif 132 85.71%

Why are people who don't even play competitively arguing?


It's certainly not the only thing I cling to it's what the carry gets to counter blademail stacking so he can kill key targets without worrying about it.

[balmain]

^i dont really think a poll is a effective way of deciding this issue, it just shows public opinion. :rolleyes:
btw this is excellent replay of the situation you guys are discussing about. the whole team gets barbed (yes, everyone of them) and im pretty sure you can guess the outcome. it is dota though. but barbed mechanics are the same.
you can clearly see how effective getting barbed was as the opposite team was leading at mid game but once mym all got barbed every teamfight was won by them and leaving the carry on the opposite team afraid to do anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB2zNJGXMlw

[Fenald]

^i dont really think a poll is a effective way of deciding this issue, it just shows public opinion. :rolleyes:
btw this is excellent replay of the situation you guys are discussing about. the whole team gets barbed (yes, everyone of them) and im pretty sure you can guess the outcome. it is dota though. but barbed mechanics are the same.
you can clearly see how effective getting barbed was as the opposite team was leading at mid game but once mym all got barbed every teamfight was won by them and leaving the carry on the opposite team afraid to do anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB2zNJGXMlw
The enemy team was "leading" until spectre got key items and full 5v5 teamfighting began.

The first real team fight at 27 minutes mym wins with no (I didn't see any used) blademails.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

The enemy team was "leading" until spectre got key items and full 5v5 teamfighting began.

The first real team fight at 27 minutes mym wins with no (I didn't see any used) blademails.

Fenald, I really think you suffer from the "I am at work, so I can't play right now, so I have to post at the forums every minute" syndrome.

^^

[softcactus]

No...

[Pyros]

How could you link that, http://www.gamestah.com/file/view/3370# imo.

Anyway, it was an Ursa game, so yeah obviously they went blademail. That's like the only times you see more than one blademail in competitive play, rest of the time you see 0-1, usually on super squishies like warlock and stuff. It's cheap because the heroes that need it usually can't farm for **** anyway, when they're lucky to not be ward *****. I think it's fine, if people want to get 5blademail, let them get 5blademail, if you want to nerf blademails just go for a cooldown increase or lower reflect amount, not add a stupid item limit rule. Doesn't seem to be much of an issue in pro dota though, not sure why it'd become an issue in HoN.

[Fenald]

Didn't even see nervis edit essay.


yep, anyone who thinks the 3 guinsoo rule is good is an idiot puss y according to fenald. solid argument

Glad we agree.


A SINGLE carry player is having MULTIPLE players use barbed armor against him and ONE symbol of rage is the counter to I believe THREE barbed armors according to the original poster? better soak up the entire 3.5 seconds of that activated ability and hope you dont get CC'd during the duration.
Symbol - 3.5sec activate, 31.5sec CD. Quantity: 1
Barbed - 5sec activate, 10sec CD. Quantity: 3

Using it to kill key people on the other team wins fights.

How is "better hope you dont' get cc'd during it" even an argument? If I'm cc'd during it I'm cc'd during their blademail making their blademail obsolete anyway......



more amazing logic by fenald.
> 2k per person(5 people) for barbed to reflect 100% dmg from all heroes. 5sec dura, 10sec CD
> 5.5k(1 person) for symbol so that the carry can counter barbed armor. 3.5sec dura, 31.5sec CD

If you're looking for 1 item to counter 5 items you're not going to find one.


* buying a barbed and buying a symbol... two COMPLETELY different things. *
-no piece of barbed is more than 1200, the total cost is like 2100?
-Its easy to buy in small increments, making it plausable for almost every hero to get one in a timely manner.
-Why is Symbol different? One piece costs 3200g.
-symbol to be effective has a pre-requisite, good auto atk dmg to make good health returns.
-the only pre-requisite for barbed armor is to know youre going to take dmg in your HoN game.

A carry farming a symbol is comparable to a support farming a blademail.

The only pre-requisite for barbed armor is to know you're going to take damage over a 5 second period without getting disabled first so you can activate it.


people dont buy low cost stat items to be extremely annoying, and I also didnt say people bought barbed armor to BE annoying, I said it WAS annoying. That comment really has no relation to barbed armor or logic behind it at all... if you truly think thats why people get 'low cost stat items' just say now so I know you have no real argument

No they buy them because they're effective, blademails too except much less often because blademails are a situational item.

[Kietharr]

lolwut

Don't hit the barbed person, if they wasted 10k+ gold buying barbed armor to counter probably one or two heroes per team tops instead of real items for their entire team and they pull off a win you deserve to lose. Seriously not that hard to deal with.

I honestly don't see how an item that requires people to attack you in order to function could possibly be overpowered enough to merit a limit. It's such a situational item that really gives you nothing other than some armor and a clicky that makes people not want to focus you. For over 2,000g. You could get a hood for that price and have much more practical survivability in most situations.

Wait, Hood counters so many caster heroes for only 2k gold, we should limit that too, so OP!

[FuzzyWuzzy]

I can bet that maybe 1% of the people here (Fenald) have played AT ALL a game with more than 3 Barbed armors, but they are still posting.

And Barbed armor is never "wasted" gold, it is VERY cheap, gives you armor, mana, and adds a lot of DPS against heroes like Puppet, Maliken, Hag, Pharaoh, Soul Reaper, Behemoth, etc.

And it is certainly not a situational item, it has started popping in every Dota game recently. It is bound to get limited at a certain point of time.

[PoolShark]

Now, I don't have problems with Barbed Armor as an item
stopped reading there. if you don't realize the incredible imbalance of this item in competitive play you shouldn't be able to post. And to every moron that says ITS ONLY 5 seconds, yes it is it also has a 15 second cooldown. 5/15 = 1/3 of the cooldown it's ON FOR.

[JewishNinja]

Considering top tier players opt to get it early, it must be pretty damn good.

Recently the game has sprouted 2 strong seemingly uncounterable issues:
a surge of good ophelia players
item abuse (blademail and void talisman's insane power here)

Blademail is an item that gives you dps. Yes i have been in games where the other team went 3+ blademails, yes the game was insanely gay and annoying to play in since blademail pretty much countered an initiation.

[Fenald]

stopped reading there. if you don't realize the incredible imbalance of this item in competitive play you shouldn't be able to post. And to every moron that says ITS ONLY 5 seconds, yes it is it also has a 15 second cooldown. 5/15 = 1/3 of the cooldown it's ON FOR.
You probably shouldn't flame the dude that you're agreeing with based on his passive attempts at claiming an item is overpowered.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

stopped reading there. if you don't realize the incredible imbalance of this item in competitive play you shouldn't be able to post. And to every moron that says ITS ONLY 5 seconds, yes it is it also has a 15 second cooldown. 5/15 = 1/3 of the cooldown it's ON FOR.

Good job reading out of context.

I don't have a problem with Barbed armor when it's only one, just as you wouldn't have a problem with Totem if it was one.

When things get to 3+, things start to get gay.

But thanks for agreeing with me, regardless.

[Nervi]

Using it to kill key people on the other team wins fights.

How is "better hope you dont' get cc'd during it" even an argument? If I'm cc'd during it I'm cc'd during their blademail making their blademail obsolete anyway......
lol man its obvious youre scrambling to argue back with any question just to not look like youre completely wrong.

how is it an argument? oh idk your so called 'counter' to barbed armor is on cooldown for 30seconds now, theirs is only on cd for 10, thats if they even used it. if they did use it and you got sheeped i dont imagine they are anywhere in your dmg range after youre out, if youre even alive.

youre still not getting the whole triple the cooldown difference, longer duration thing going on here I dont think. its ok


If you're looking for 1 item to counter 5 items you're not going to find one.
why am I able to look back in the thread and quote YOU to make my argument?

"ok the whole point of this thread is that you limit how many blademails a team can get.
switch targets does not work if the whole team has blademail." -neverwononce

you respond;
"Already been stated that the counter is symbol of rage.

If the whole team has it then they invested far more into them than the carry did into symbol.

1 blademail is cheap 5 isn't."

nice one, you admit 1 symbol isnt going to counter many blademails. but in your response you start it off by saying symbol IS THE counter.

Im not looking for 1 item to counter 5, but your response says you think there is

youre just contradicting yourself now

1 symbol wont counter many blademails but you suggest getting it as THE counter and then you bring cost into the argument as if thats relevant.
If youre winning a game whats it matter what the cost of it was? especially when you buy 5 items and the other team has their carry spend 5k on something that wont work

A carry farming a symbol is comparable to a support farming a blademail.
ya and the whole thread is about multiple blademails 2-3+++. a team isnt filled with support players... so its comparable to ONE person on the other team farming it. you arent thinking these arguments out man, you strugglin bro

The only pre-requisite for barbed armor is to know you're going to take damage over a 5 second period without getting disabled first so you can activate it.
boy these responses are getting DESPERATE. anyone else who reads that as a 'counter-argument' to my quote prolly laughed

No they buy them because they're effective, blademails too except much less often because blademails are a situational item.
the problem here is that you think you are the determining factor in how effective blademail is, then you compared it to an item like a branch or bracer that has never and wont ever be put into question for a 'limit'.

I gave an example of actual GAMES against FFS, a good team(disagree if youd like) where the item was used well and was stupidly annoying. Also realize I didnt even say in my initial response that there NEEDS to be a limit on the item, I said it would be nice to see one.

I dont know if you have even played against a team where it was used effectively, but according to your argument your old team QuC if faced with multiple of that item against a team thats considered good would effectively counter it with symbol, or smart target swaps. your argument is all theoretical if you cant say you have played against a good team that used it well.

[TurboJyri]

Imo, mobzombie, you are a noob. Barbed is good, but with its cd and duration, it will never really counter a carry.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Imo, mobzombie, you are a noob. Barbed is good, but with its cd and duration, it will never really counter a carry.

Yes really, a cooldown of 10 seconds out of Barbed Armor is so much. And judging somebody so quickly and without ever playing with him is quite silly.

You can go play pubs now. Thanks.

Seriously people, Barbed Armor costs 2200 gold. Symbol costs 6150 gold, which is equivalent to 3 Barbed Armors, and god forbid you have something like Behemoth or Plague Rider in the team, since they will insta-gib themselves in team fights. (see replay above with 5 barbed armors on MYM)

[noRaki]

No, all to say

[Fenald]

lol man its obvious youre scrambling to argue back with any question just to not look like youre completely wrong.

how is it an argument? oh idk your so called 'counter' to barbed armor is on cooldown for 30seconds now, theirs is only on cd for 10, thats if they even used it. if they did use it and you got sheeped i dont imagine they are anywhere in your dmg range after youre out, if youre even alive.

youre still not getting the whole triple the cooldown difference, longer duration thing going on here I dont think. its ok

Why are you needing to activate it to if they're not using blade mail?

If you're dying during a sheep how are you losing to blademails?

Why aren't you bkb'd?

Dead heroes can't activate blademail again in 15 seconds.


why am I able to look back in the thread and quote YOU to make my argument?

"ok the whole point of this thread is that you limit how many blademails a team can get.
switch targets does not work if the whole team has blademail." -neverwononce

you respond;
"Already been stated that the counter is symbol of rage.

If the whole team has it then they invested far more into them than the carry did into symbol.

1 blademail is cheap 5 isn't."

nice one, you admit 1 symbol isnt going to counter many blademails. but in your response you start it off by saying symbol IS THE counter.

Im not looking for 1 item to counter 5, but your response says you think there is

youre just contradicting yourself now


symbol is the item counter for the carry and no it still won't counter 5 items that cost more than it you'll have to do more to beat that.


1 symbol wont counter many blademails but you suggest getting it as THE counter and then you bring cost into the argument as if thats relevant.
If youre winning a game whats it matter what the cost of it was? especially when you buy 5 items and the other team has their carry spend 5k on something that wont work

If you're winning the game already how is the other team losing because of blademails? Thats like saying we only lost because the other team was able to farm all the lanes while we hid in our base. Nerf farming.

symbol will work it'll let you kill the couple targets you want/need dead the most.


ya and the whole thread is about multiple blademails 2-3+++. a team isnt filled with support players... so its comparable to ONE person on the other team farming it. you arent thinking these arguments out man, you strugglin bro

Yes 5 people on the other team farming it is more difficult than 1 not less... Whos side are you on?


boy these responses are getting DESPERATE. anyone else who reads that as a 'counter-argument' to my quote prolly laughed

Judging by the poll they still think you're incompetent though.


the problem here is that you think you are the determining factor in how effective blademail is, then you compared it to an item like a branch or bracer that has never and wont ever be put into question for a 'limit'.

Much like blademail shouldn't be.


I dont know if you have even played against a team where it was used effectively, but according to your argument your old team QuC if faced with multiple of that item against a team thats considered good would effectively counter it with symbol, or smart target swaps. your argument is all theoretical if you cant say you have played against a good team that used it well.

In theory I could counter a team in which everyone buys dagon 5 with pipe and some hoods. Can't say I've ever had that happen to me either but I'm not too worried about it.

The only time blademail stacking would scare me is combined with a sandwraith or if our carry is maliken.


Also realize I didnt even say in my initial response that there NEEDS to be a limit on the item, I said it would be nice to see one.

So then you admit the only reason you're here arguing is because you're still mad that I play better support than you?

[Nervi]

Im right when it comes to our back and forth battle, the only two people reading the bickering back and forth is us. using the poll as a valid point as to why youre right is dumb and you know it. what that says is you now take their opinions as valid argument for a change in competitive play when you know 90% of them havent played competitive at all. so im responding to the one line that keeps this thread fun for me


So then you admit the only reason you're here arguing is because you're still mad that I play better support than you?

ive never lost a scrim to you ever, in fact every single scrim ive ever played you in you got demolished.

say my team carried me more. just gonna make me laugh harder everytime i beat your team and **** talk you all game and youre just gonna sit fuming that youre losing to a bad player like me. pce kid find a good team that doesnt laugh at your 'best babysitter' claim to fame

[Arnald1]

Play as support :D

[sr8]

Yea unfortunately most carries do not have a symbol of rage as a core item. What a shame.

Personally I think this item's concept is just ******* bad.

[Fenald]

Im right when it comes to our back and forth battle, the only two people reading the bickering back and forth is us. using the poll as a valid point as to why youre right is dumb and you know it. what that says is you now take their opinions as valid argument for a change in competitive play when you know 90% of them havent played competitive at all. so im responding to the one line that keeps this thread fun for me



ive never lost a scrim to you ever, in fact every single scrim ive ever played you in you got demolished.

say my team carried me more. just gonna make me laugh harder everytime i beat your team and **** talk you all game and youre just gonna sit fuming that youre losing to a bad player like me. pce kid find a good team that doesnt laugh at your 'best babysitter' claim to fame
I only fume when I don't get to lane against you for meaningless domination before the other lanes catch up to me.

You've never won a lane against me and never will.

[Nervi]

haha durr i sit in my good lane every game as DS/lich+carry and think me winning a lane will do anything for the game, woops i suck and lose

h4h4 kid get at me you never win a game, and never will

[Fenald]

haha durr i sit in my good lane every game as DS/lich+carry and think me winning a lane will do anything for the game, woops i suck and lose

h4h4 kid get at me you never win a game, and never will


mad cuz can't win lane?

[Nervi]

haha look how complacent you are with losing games. BADLY ROFL

h4h4 kid you lost x10. get at me im the champ

[tabako]

your ability to "win lanes" when your team always spends their first pick on a demented or a plague to send into the safe lane isn't impressive and isn't going to win games by itself.

I used to think you were just really full of yourself regarding your ability to win lanes. But after I read angel's interview which detailed your laneing strategy, I now realize that your team used a flawed strategy which allows you to push the blame onto your other teammates. Maybe you do win that lane most of the time, but it really seems you are missing the big picture here.

Did angel record any vods of you two crushing the hard lane against a competent team with a strong lane?

[Fenald]

your ability to "win lanes" when your team always spends their first pick on a demented or a plague to send into the safe lane isn't impressive and isn't going to win games by itself.

I used to think you were just really full of yourself regarding your ability to win lanes. But after I read angel's interview which detailed your laneing strategy, I now realize that your team used a flawed strategy which allows you to push the blame onto your other teammates. Maybe you do win that lane most of the time, but it really seems you are missing the big picture here.

Did angel record any vods of you two crushing the hard lane against a competent team with a strong lane?
Can't when we let other people play carry/babysit they lose.

unfortunately we can't play all 3 lanes.

I don't do picks and I play whats needed which just always happens to be babysitting.

Try to blame losses on me I'll keep shifting it to others.

[JeffEmming]

Well this thread got pretty immature.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Can't when we let other people play carry/babysit they lose.

unfortunately we can't play all 3 lanes.

I don't do picks and I play whats needed which just always happens to be babysitting.

Try to blame losses on me I'll keep shifting it to others.

Please post a game where you won with HB/Demented/Plague banned and then we can stop arguing ^^

[Fenald]

Please post a game where you won with HB/Demented/Plague banned and then we can stop arguing ^^

Then I babysit with pyro lion necro or polly.

I wish others I play with could be trusted to play the role.

[Banished]

As amusing as this thread is, I have to ask why.

[Fenald]

As amusing as this thread is, I have to ask why.


Did you not read the thread?

The "why" is there even if it's wrong.

[Blavo]

your ability to "win lanes" when your team always spends their first pick on a demented or a plague to send into the safe lane isn't impressive and isn't going to win games by itself.

I used to think you were just really full of yourself regarding your ability to win lanes. But after I read angel's interview which detailed your laneing strategy, I now realize that your team used a flawed strategy which allows you to push the blame onto your other teammates. Maybe you do win that lane most of the time, but it really seems you are missing the big picture here.

Did angel record any vods of you two crushing the hard lane against a competent team with a strong lane?

Fenald, you're a solid player but tabako is dead on about this. If you're playing a babysit hero along with a hatcheted carry hero in the safe lane, then you should win every time. Its the other team's job to try and disrupt that lane as much as possible, but realistically they shouldn't have really any chance of outright "winning" it based solely on the 2v2 matchup.

You've also made it very clear that it was everyone else's fault that QuC lost their games. I find this very hard to believe, and although it might be true in some cases, it really just comes off as unprofessional.

All you ever seem to talk about is the babysitting aspect of the laning phase of the game. You are aware that there are other phases of the game, right? And assuming you won your lane and lost another, the game could have still been ultimately lost in one of the other phases (a mismanaged team fight, ganks, counter ganks, etc)? Your understanding of how games are won and lost is simply incorrect.

I'm trying to keep the discussion civil, but I hate seeing people point fingers when they lose. It serves no purpose other than protecting your own ego, and that is definitely not a trait of a good teammate/player.

[Extreme_Cake]

Whilst I generally agree with Fenald, I can't help but agree that both Angel and him are too ready to blame everyone else. That said, QuC has generally seemed to me to pick fairly weak lanes (their match vs. WHP comes to mind), so I can hardly blame them. Actually, while I'm on the subject, I'm fairly sure Fenald and Angel got their faces handed to them while laning in that game as well.

[Fenald]

Fenald, you're a solid player but tabako is dead on about this. If you're playing a babysit hero along with a hatcheted carry hero in the safe lane, then you should win every time. Its the other team's job to try and disrupt that lane as much as possible, but realistically they shouldn't have really any chance of outright "winning" it based solely on the 2v2 matchup.

You've also made it very clear that it was everyone else's fault that QuC lost their games. I find this very hard to believe, and although it might be true in some cases, it really just comes off as unprofessional.

All you ever seem to talk about is the babysitting aspect of the laning phase of the game. You are aware that there are other phases of the game, right? And assuming you won your lane and lost another, the game could have still been ultimately lost in one of the other phases (a mismanaged team fight, ganks, counter ganks, etc)? Your understanding of how games are won and lost is simply incorrect.

I'm trying to keep the discussion civil, but I hate seeing people point fingers when they lose. It serves no purpose other than protecting your own ego, and that is definitely not a trait of a good teammate/player.
Feel free to tell me what I personally can do within the game to help my team win that I don't do already.

Your understanding of my understanding is incorrect.

If anyone who watches me play wants to point a finger at me I welcome it please tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can change it and win more.

I love advice.

[Blavo]

Feel free to tell me what I personally can do within the game to help my team win that I don't do already.

Your understanding of my understanding is incorrect.

If anyone who watches me play wants to point a finger at me I welcome it please tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can change it and win more.

I love advice.


Alright, here's some advice: Learn humility, you're not that good.

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? You say that there is nobody else on your team who can babysit well, so you've taken it upon yourself to play that role exclusively. Well unfortunately, while babysitting is important early on, your impact on the later phases of the game is not nearly as significant. The role itself is just not that difficult to master, especially when you get preference in choosing your hero with one of the first 2 picks and you reside strictly in the safe lane.

So if you want to do more for your team, why don't you master a more difficult role that has the potential to win the game for your team.

[Couchmonster]

There is a counter... disable and kill before he activates it.

[Fenald]

Alright, here's some advice: Learn humility, you're not that good.

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? You say that there is nobody else on your team who can babysit well, so you've taken it upon yourself to play that role exclusively. Well unfortunately, while babysitting is important early on, your impact on the later phases of the game is not nearly as significant. The role itself is just not that difficult to master, especially when you get preference in choosing your hero with one of the first 2 picks and you reside strictly in the safe lane.

So if you want to do more for your team, why don't you master a more difficult role that has the potential to win the game for your team.

This is not what I asked for.

I don't do picks and I don't even really decide what I play I'll play whatever is needed.

Tell me how I can specifically play what I've been picked to play in the lanes I've been told to help my team win more?

You're basically blaming my team right here while telling me not to blame my team.

So your suggestion is that I should tell my team that I'm not going to do what they want me to do and I'm going to do something else because I believe I can do it better than them?

I'll try that.

[Dewiz]

Fenald just b writin dem books i tell ya













































lolwowsobad

[Blavo]

This is not what I asked for.

I don't do picks and I don't even really decide what I play I'll play whatever is needed.

Tell me how I can specifically play what I've been picked to play in the lanes I've been told to help my team win more?

You're basically blaming my team right here while telling me not to blame my team.

So your suggestion is that I should tell my team that I'm not going to do what they want me to do and I'm going to do something else because I believe I can do it better than them?

I'll try that.

Well if you've been assigned to play babysit, then of course you play it to the best of your ability. However, that role is traditionally less challenging, and usually reserved for players who can't fill the other roles as effectively as their teammates. I don't mean to say that as an insult to you, its just what has been the trend in the competitive scene forever and I understand/agree with it. Obviously you've been picked to play that role for a reason, and even if you play it better than others, it doesn't make it any more important.

The point I am trying to make is that you, as the babysitter, are not in a position to win or lose the game for your team. The majority of games will not be decided by any amount of good or bad plays you make. It is a lot more likely that a ganker, AOE ult oriented hero, or even a carry will make or break the game for their team because they have more impact and require better execution.

If you've been designated as the babysitter then you can't do much more to help your team win, other than protecting the carry hero and his farm in the lane. If Angel is designating you to babysit and he considers you one of the 2 best players (which I gather from the fact you two are looking for a new team) then that is just a waste of your skills.

Either you are good enough to play other roles or you aren't, I am not the judge of that. You are obviously content with babysitting because it is necessary, and there isn't anything wrong with that. You're still taking on the least amount of risk, so don't think lay 100% of the blame on your 3 teammates who have been assigned the more challenging, more risky positions in the lineup.

[Fenald]

Well if you've been assigned to play babysit, then of course you play it to the best of your ability. However, that role is traditionally less challenging, and usually reserved for players who can't fill the other roles as effectively as their teammates. I don't mean to say that as an insult to you, its just what has been the trend in the competitive scene forever and I understand/agree with it. Obviously you've been picked to play that role for a reason, and even if you play it better than others, it doesn't make it any more important.

The point I am trying to make is that you, as the babysitter, are not in a position to win or lose the game for your team. The majority of games will not be decided by any amount of good or bad plays you make. It is a lot more likely that a ganker, AOE ult oriented hero, or even a carry will make or break the game for their team because they have more impact and require better execution.

If you've been designated as the babysitter then you can't do much more to help your team win, other than protecting the carry hero and his farm in the lane. If Angel is designating you to babysit and he considers you one of the 2 best players (which I gather from the fact you two are looking for a new team) then that is just a waste of your skills.

Either you are good enough to play other roles or you aren't, I am not the judge of that. You are obviously content with babysitting because it is necessary, and there isn't anything wrong with that. You're still taking on the least amount of risk, so don't think lay 100% of the blame on your 3 teammates who have been assigned the more challenging, more risky positions in the lineup.

Agreed I'm perfect and can do no wrong.

Thanks for the chat.

[HoNnotDota]

No.
10chars

[J0k3]

Usually, almost my whole team gets barbed armor. And whenever the magmus/plague ultis, we all pop it and they die instantly. Tons of fun :)

[Blavo]

Agreed I'm perfect and can do no wrong.

Thanks for the chat.

I didn't expect you to have much to say after that, considering it was a rational argument. :)

[Fenald]

I didn't expect you to have much to say after that, considering it was a rational argument. :)
What rational argument.

You're telling me to play a different role, thanks genius I play the roles that are needed.

if other kids think they're comfortable in a role then fail miserably who am I to tell them to play one that they're going to fail EVEN harder in?

You have nothing to say about my actual gameplay.

Thanks I'm perfect.

[nszero]

if other kids think they're comfortable in a role then fail miserably who am I to tell them to play one that they're going to fail EVEN harder in?


As blavo just said the role of babysitter, generally speaking, is easier than the role of the Ganker, AOE or Carry. So by that logic shouldn't you tell the "other kids" to play babysitter because they won't fail harder at it, and in turn you can show your hon skills in the more important role?

[Fenald]

As blavo just said the role of babysitter, generally speaking, is easier than the role of the Ganker, AOE or Carry. So by that logic shouldn't you tell the "other kids" to play babysitter because they won't fail harder at it, and in turn you can show your hon skills in the more important role?
Well thats his opinion.


I'm not going to tell people to play something they're not comfortable with especially when their failure means angel raging all over them.

[china]

TBH, there's only one person looking ridiculous right now.

[AeiOwnedU]

In my opinion - The only nerf Blademail should get, is make it only return Physical dmg, the fact that it returns Magical is just ******* stupid. GG low hp nukers.

That would make Hakron's blade (or whatever turns physical dmg to magical) more viable.

[Banished]

In my opinion - The only nerf Blademail should get, is make it only return Physical dmg, the fact that it returns Magical is just ******* stupid. GG low hp nukers.

That would make Hakron's blade (or whatever turns physical dmg to magical) more viable.

Actually it returns true damage last I checked, but that damage is already mitigated from the target you are attacking.

[willtsay]

doesnt sheeping someone get rid of the barbedarmor buff ._. (i.e pick polly/ witch slayer?) well it should, it does in dota IIRC. *cant test it out right now :(*

nab those 2 disable heroes and ur set ;) they naturally can also get sheepstick eventually too so barbed armor is basically stupid. ( I THINK, im not sure :| ill go test in dota like... in 6-7 hours >_> (HoN is on my other comp which is elsewhere rite now) unless someone can go do this for me ;D

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Unless Totem dispels buffs, which would be quite imbalanced, it shouldn't work. ^^

[Sgt_Kickass]

Ok for noobs such as myself who always end up being owned in the first 2 seconds of a fight... Barbed is by far my best friend. Its the perfect counter against scout but only if u can see him coming... Every game I have played using barbed has always ended the same... They adapt their play and simply stay next to me till it ends then own me in 2 hits. Though it was pretty funny in normal dota seeing someone use sacred warrior and then countering him with blademail... ~Giggle~

[Fenald]

Actually it returns true damage last I checked, but that damage is already mitigated from the target you are attacking.
Thats not what he meant.

He meant if you pyro ult someone with blade mail up it should return 0 damage and only physical damage dealt to a blademailed target should be returned (still as true).

[wnxfurry]

You don't have to tell me counters to Barbed Armor. I think I know mechanics after all.


obviously you dont if you're on the forum *****ing about barbed armor

/facepalm

[FuzzyWuzzy]

obviously you dont if you're on the forum *****ing about barbed armor

/facepalm

There are vast differences between discussion and *****ing.

And how does exactly your 1 game entitle you to say anything in this section of the forums is beyond me.

[magnifier]

It's fine

[VyyyE]

There are vast differences between discussion and *****ing.

And how does exactly your 1 game entitle you to say anything in this section of the forums is beyond me.
How you need X games played to use the public forums is beyond me. Still though, I don't think they should add any restrictions unless using a 5 barbed armors tactic is becoming too common.

I mean, how often do you see it?

[FuzzyWuzzy]

How you need X games played to use the public forums is beyond me. Still though, I don't think they should add any restrictions unless using a 5 barbed armors tactic is becoming too common.

I mean, how often do you see it?

Most scrims I play involve 2-3 Barbed Armors per team, especially if you play a heavy carry like Maliken, Puppet or Magebane.

Seriously, a Barbed Armor costs 2200 gold, this is the cost of a Blessed Orb, lol.

[HellFire69]

I've never gotten barbed armour in DotA or HoN in all the years I've been playing these games. I'm gonna build it next game for sure!

[Fenald]

Most scrims I play involve 2-3 Barbed Armors per team, especially if you play a heavy carry like Maliken, Puppet or Magebane.

Seriously, a Barbed Armor costs 2200 gold, this is the cost of a Blessed Orb, lol.


A tactic to counter 3 heavily banned carries?

[FuzzyWuzzy]

A tactic to counter 3 heavily banned carries?

I didn't mean these 3 on the same team, that would quite stupid.

In a sense, every team, or at least 99% of teams play with a heavy carry, so you will always be well-positioned to abuse Barbed.

[Fenald]

I didn't mean these 3 on the same team, that would quite stupid.

In a sense, every team, or at least 99% of teams play with a heavy carry, so you will always be well-positioned to abuse Barbed.
I was talking about each one alone too.......

Maliken and puppet are heavily countered by multiple blademails because they do aoe damage.

They should be heavily countered considering even with blademails they're still 2 of the best carries in the game.

[Kylskap]

I find it very amusing that someone is arguing that barbed armor counters him as a carry, what about void talisman then?

[luge]

Switch targets.

2 people farmed it?

Comparable price.

3 people farmed it?

Costs more than symbol of rage.

I accept your apology.

This, it just isn't practical for a whole team to get it to counter one hero.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

I find it very amusing that someone is arguing that barbed armor counters him as a carry, what about void talisman then?

Void Talisman against Puppet? Good luck taking double damage from Voodoo Puppet.

Void Talisman against Maliken? Ok, thanks for 600 damage Sword Throw.

And not to mention Barbed reflects magic damage from AoE as well, which is vastly different from increasing the damage taken.

[Vulpes]

Void Talisman against Puppet? Good luck taking double damage from Voodoo Puppet.

Void Talisman against Maliken? Ok, thanks for 600 damage Sword Throw.

Void Talisman doesn't increase Magic Damage taken.
Remnisciences from DotA.. aren't always correct.


And not to mention Barbed reflects magic damage from AoE as well, which is vastly different from increasing the damage taken.

That's why people vote to make it only capable of deflecting physical damage.
As it is an anti-carry item, it shouldn't be used against initators;
A much better proposition than limiting the amount of Barbeds per Team.

OT: Nice to have really strong players active in the forums as well, missed that in many other comp. games -
Sad to see arrogant children. Props at [5], that didn't let themselves be provoked by stupid ranting.

[Kylskap]

above post said most of what I was going to.
void talisman is often better than barbed since it's cheaper and actually give you 4seconds of melee sanctuary, this cannot be said about barbed armor since they can still attack you. and let's face it, 3-4people nuking you will only shrug at barbed armor.

[Senfei]

It's designed to counter squishy Heroes using critical hits;
Would be kind of stupid if the overfed carry then simply switches targets.

If your opponents activate Barbed Armor, all of you back out and simply do nothing;
then go back in after 5 seconds.. if you fear to die in that timeframe, buy Barbed Armor.
+1

.....