Engineer - Here to smoke cigars and kick ass...and he's all out of cigars. (EM)

[Togashi]

This is my first guide, I copied and pasted from a Maliken guide that I liked the format of. Feel free to give me tips for improvement. This guide is primarily for EM, although there is always some rollover between easy and normal mode.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/Choebob/Engineer.jpg

Introduction
Engineer is a ranged agility hero. With the correct equipment he carries very well. Naturally his is pretty supportive and can even limitedly tank. He's an all-around character that can fill multiple roles and has some pretty good utility.

Skills
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/Choebob/TheKeg.jpg

The Keg is Engineer's ranged aoe stun and knockback. It has some really good uses including, but not limited to: initiating, seperating enemies, escaping, and last hitting. Be careful though, it has some cast time, so be sure to anticipate the movements of your enemies, like with Pyromancer's Dragonfire.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/Choebob/SteamTurret.jpg

Steam Turret is possibly his best skill, imho. Placed correctly and timed right, it will demolish heros by itself. Tinkering it only adds insult to injury. Dropping this, ulting, and tinkering the turret can net you 1-2 kills solo or even more in group fights. The mechanic that makes this ability ridiculous is the fact that it takes on your gear. While I build defense items early which don't help the turret, your mid-late game items make this guy a monster.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/Choebob/Tinker.jpg

Tinker is utility at it's best. Why have an ability that can do one thing when you have one that can do four things? The best abilities by far are the ability to boost your ult and your turret. But don't underrate boosting a tower when your enemy is creep blocked while pushing, or boosting your catapult when your pushing or your turret is on cooldown. I don't really use to to debuff enemy units, but I imagine it's not bad.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/Choebob/EnergyField.jpg

Energy Field is a great asset in team battles. It deals damage based on max health (so whether you hit tanks or squishies it's gonna hurt them. If they stay in at rank 3 for the duration they lose 64% of their health (taking into account base magic armor), and if you tinker it they have to heal or die (102%). If they decide to run, well they get slowed and silenced, allowing your team to chase. If you have this up and your turret set inside, watch them fall.

Skill Builds
Solo build
1. Steam Turret
2. The Keg
3. Steam Turret
4. Tinker
5. Steam Turret
6. The Keg
7. Steam Turret
8. The Keg
9. The Keg
10. Energy Field
11. Energy Field
12-14. Tinker
15. Stats
16. Energy Field
17+ Stats

Laning build
1. Steam Turret
2. The Keg
3. Steam Turret
4. The Keg
5. Steam Turret
6.The Keg
7. Steam Turret
8. The Keg
9. Tinker/Stats
10. Energy Field
11. Energy Field
12-14. Tinker
15. Stats
16. Energy Field
17+ Stats

In the solo build, you opt for Steam Turret before The Keg and get an early level of Tinker as this will sometimes be the difference between who gets bloodlusted in the middle lane. I will post good turret positions for the middle lane further into the guide.

In the laning build you get Steam Turret early and post it as a river ward. At level 1, most ranged heroes attack extremely slowly (~1 attack every 2 seconds) This means it will take someone 10 seconds to smash your turret, in which time your turret will use up all its mana doing about 680 damage. Thus, no one in their right minds will attempt to take it down. Once you hit level 3, you can start using your Turret to harass / farm in the lane.

Item Builds
Basic Starting Items
http://honwiki.net/w/images/0/09/Runes_of_the_Blightitem.gifx2
http://honwiki.net/w/images/e/e5/Mana_Potionitem.gifx3
http://honwiki.net/w/images/0/05/Iron_Buckleritem.gif
http://honwiki.net/w/images/b/bb/Minor_Totemitem.gifx2
http://honwiki.net/w/images/e/ec/Monkey_Courieritem.gif
Runes of Blight x2 = 180g
Mana Potion x2 = 100g
Minor Totem x2 = 106g
Monkey Courier = 200g
Total = 586g

This is the basic starting items I buy for Engineer, it's not set in stone, but this is very effective in maintaining your health and mana. The shield is just to protect you from being harassed by 600 range heros and to build into helm later.

Core items
http://honwiki.net/w/images/7/7d/Marchersitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/4/45/Punch_Daggeritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/4/45/Punch_Daggeritem.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/1/10/Enhanced_Marchersitem.gif
Marchers = 500g
Punchdagger x2 = 1000g
Total = 1500g
http://honwiki.net/w/images/6/67/Mana_Batteryitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/7/72/Recipe.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/f/fd/Power_Supplyitem.gif
Mana Battery = 210g
Power Supply Recipe = 203g
Total = 413g
http://honwiki.net/w/images/0/07/Warhammeritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/a/a0/Gloves_of_the_Swiftitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/7/72/Recipe.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/7/7b/Thunder_Clawitem.gif (http://honwiki.net/w/images/7/7b/Thunder_Clawitem.gif)
Warhammer = 1600g
Gloves of the Swift = 500g
Thunder Claw Recipe = 900g
Total = 3000g
http://honwiki.net/w/images/3/3a/Mighty_Bladeitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/0/07/Warhammeritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/7/72/Recipe.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/a/a4/Shrunken_Headitem.gif
Mighty Blade = 1000g
Warhammer = 1600g
Shrunken Head Recipe = 1300g
Total = 3900g

This is the goal, I can generally farm this within the first 30 minutes of the game, and while I am listing this as core items it's only because the next items you buy are pretty variable. I would buy these items in every game, pretty much every time. Ghost Marchers adds good damage to you and your turret, plus the creep walking is always useful. Power Supply gives a good mana fix for Engineer, and of course there's the whole "a fully charged Power Supply gives you more than a full Bottle" argument. Thunder Claw is just ridiculous. Adds damage, attack speed, and a good proc to both you and your turrets. There is really no reason to ever not get this item, in fact, rush it after Ghost Marchers and Power Supply. Lastly, Shrunken Head is necessary to stay alive in team fights most of the time. If you're feeling ballsy or have some great support, you can possibly skip it. I would not recommend it though.

*optional
http://honwiki.net/w/images/6/6e/Portal_Keyitem.gif
Portal Key = 2150g

Portal Key will help you set up some really good ults and turrets in team fights. A nice solid choice, and with the farming skills from Thunder Claw, not hard to scrape together the gold.

Luxury items
http://honwiki.net/w/images/2/2a/Warped_Cleftitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/7/72/Recipe.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/1/1c/Charged_Hammeritem.gif
Warpcleft = 2100g
Charged Hammer Recipe = 400g
Total = 2500g
http://honwiki.net/w/images/b/bb/Halberditem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/b/bb/Halberditem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/a/a3/Slayeritem.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/7/79/Savage_Maceitem.gif
Halberd = 1500g
Halberd = 1500g
Slayer = 2400g
Total = 5400g
http://honwiki.net/w/images/5/51/Quick_Bladeitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/5/51/Quick_Bladeitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/0/0b/Apprentice%27s_Robeitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/7/72/Recipe.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/c/c5/Nullfire_Bladeitem.gif (http://honwiki.net/w/images/c/c5/Nullfire_Bladeitem.gif)
Quick Blade = 1000g
Quick Blade = 1000g
Apprentice's Robe = 450g
Nullfire Blade Recipe = 850g
Total = 3300g
http://honwiki.net/w/images/0/05/Iron_Buckleritem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/d/de/Lifetubeitem.gifhttp://honwiki.net/w/images/6/60/Beast_Heartitem.gif-->http://honwiki.net/w/images/f/f4/Helm_of_the_Black_Legionitem.gif
Iron Buckler = 250g
Lifetube = 875g
Beastheart = 1100g
Total = 2225g

Looking at all of these items, it's a large amount to ask anyone to farm, but you don't really need all of these to finish a game. Most of the time you'll opt for one and the game is over before you finish it, unless you're playing EM. They're more or less listed in order of importance. Charged Hammer is a natural way to go with your completed Thunder Claw. Savage Mace makes it next to impossible for enemies to channel with you and your turret around. Nullfire Blade adds a lot of mana burn to your turret and yourself. It's a good boost to damage and can really screw up your opponent, and the purge can really help against a lot of heroes. Helm of the Black Legion is a situational defensive item. I like it because I tend to initiate with Engineer in the mid game so this helps mitigate a bit of damage. To each their own I guess.

Why not...
http://honwiki.net/w/images/2/2d/Mock_of_Brillianceitem.gif
Mock of Brilliance

Mock of Brilliance does add some damage, will let your turret solo the monkey man, and doubles up when you and your turret are standing together, but the benefits just don't compare to Savage Mace and Charged Hammer which are the only other luxury items of similar cost.

http://honwiki.net/w/images/4/44/Wingbowitem.gif
Wingbow

Wingbow may seem like a great item for Engineer, and it's certainly not bad. But like Mock of Brilliance the benefits don't outweigh the cost. Agi and evasion (not positive about evasion) add nothing to your turret, so it really just says +30 damage and attack speed for 6000g to your turret. You really shouldn't need the evasion (between Shrunken Head and ghost tactics, you shouldn't be focussed too badly) the rest are great benefits, but again, 6000g is just too much when you can finish your Charged Hammer and some of your Savage Mace for the same price.

Early game
Choosing a solo or dual lane
I prefer to run Engineer solo in mid because he has a very strong presence and is fairly difficult to harass. At the same time though, don't be afraid to give mid to Soulstealer or TB because Engineer adds a lot to a lane. With his stun and his additional attacker, he can make it hard for the opposing pair to deal with your lane.

Early solo laning
Obviously last hitting is important with any hero, not more so with Engineer for any reason, but pretty easy. Once you set up your turret you'll be getting a lot of last hits, make sure that after a wave when your turret is out of mana you put him to rest while the next wave makes its way down. If your opponent is being particularly brave and moves close to harass, set down the turret and target it on him, it'll bring him down fast in the early game and if he runs, throw a keg in front of him, that's how you get the bloodlust. I've found that often times a side lane hero will come to try and help mid gank you, but all you have to do is stay near your tower and if they get to close, keg them and run. Pretty simple.

Dual laning
Coming soon...

Item progression
You generally want to finish your Power Supply and Ghost Marchers. If your early game is going well, start on Thunder Claw as well.

Early game TPs, counter ganks, ganks
Always come from the forrest, open with a keg to knock them closer to your team, then rush in and drop your ult and a turret. If they try to fight it out, just tinker your turret and they should go down, but make sure not to bother if they run because you'll just be wasting time you could be chasing. The slow is only 2 seconds so you gotta be on their ass to make sure you get the kill.

Map awareness
Not the most important thing because you're a pretty tough agility hero, but don't let yourself get cocky. The worst thing would be to keg and run from two heroes only to have the 3rd come from the forrest halfway down the lane to hold you for the others.

Early game weakness
While I wouldn't say that Engineer is weak in the early game, but you're not likely to get bloodlust unless your opponents are playing too aggressive. The early game with Engineer is all about a strong defense, so strong in fact that it'll kill people who are too offensive.

Mid game
Item progression
Finish Thunder Claw as soon as possible. After that, you should probably start on Shrunken Head and Portal Key. You could instead finish your Charged Hammer if you're not worried about mid game ganks against you, but be cautious.

Mid game strength
In the mid game Engineer's strength is in team fights. Yes you can probably solo some heroes, but your ult is best used on a group. So this is a great time to rake in the assists. If your tank isn't up to par yet or is just too far away and it's 4v3 or something, don't be afraid to initiate. With your boots, helm, and aoe abilities there's a good chance you're going to send them running before they get a chance to kill you, and hopefully your team can get a kill or two in the process.

Team fights, when and how
Always face off on at least even ground (3v3, 4v4, etc) and again, don't be afraid to initiate if you have to. The cooldown on The Keg is short enough that you should be able to open with it and have it up again to knock one or more back to you if they try to run in the end. Aiming is key.

End game
Engineer's strong point
At this point you're equiped with a strong set of abilities and gear that not only benefits you, but your turret as well. It's like having a really strong but defensively weak version of yourself to come along with you. If you go with Savage Mace after the Nullfireblade then when you and your turret are in the fray, people's mana disappear and their channel spells rarely take full effect. This is the time where you will probably get most of your killing blows (unless you manipulated using The Keg in the mid game to get the KB's).

In depth team fights
Coming soon...

Farming
If you feel you really need more gear to tear people appart, stack creeps in the ancient camps and then hold them while your turret tears them to shreds. Just make sure you stay in front of the turret because once they switch to it, they're not coming back to you until it's dead.

Ganking
You should definitely be able to solo kill most heroes now. Run in, drop turret, tinker, and when they try to run, keg them. Easy kills. The most trouble you'll see is anyone who can stun lock you. So avoid those people if you see them (Chronos, Madman with basher, Panda, etc.)

Item progression, X vs Y items
Coming soon...

Update 11/26/09: changed Energy Field values to include base magic armor
Update 11/27/09: changed luxury items to include shrunken head
Update 11/28/09: edited luxury items to include frostwolf skull and shieldbreaker, downplayed mock
Update 11/29/09: revamped item section
Update 12/01/09: switched around some items
Update 12/02/09: switched more items around and added some new ones, changed skill builds slightly

[Togashi]

Advanced techniques with Engineer
Breaking channels via The Keg
This is a very basic concept, used on many heroes with stun abilities, but what's really nice about this is that it really has an effective 1200 yard range and you can use the pushback to reposition the enemy to your advantage. If your team mates on coming then throwing behind him to push him closer is great, if you're all running back then in front will set him that much further behind you, etc.

More to come...
More to come...

Frequently Asked Questions
Q. TBA
A. TBA

[Danielvutran]

Quick Question - Is Doom Bringer ever recommended? And if so, what about 2 Doom Bringers?

[Togashi]

Quick Question - Is Doom Bringer ever recommended? And if so, what about 2 Doom Bringers?
I'm assuming this is a joke, but on the off chance it's not...
No, I wouldn't go for doombringer because 1) if you die, good bye doombringer 2) It actually makes your turret more of an obvious target, as well as yourself (see #1)

[Danielvutran]

I'm assuming this is a joke, but on the off chance it's not...
No, I wouldn't go for doombringer because 1) if you die, good bye doombringer 2) It actually makes your turret more of an obvious target, as well as yourself (see #1)

Because in my last game with engineer, or maybe game before that, I had a doom bringer. I would drop the turret behind enemy creeps at their base tower , or after tower was being focused and was attacking creeps, and I would run away and ult at the turret. I ended up getting a double kill while running away, you figure 250 damage ish per .5 seconds, and for them to target it, they have to get within range of ult, and well, it's silly, but fortunately in that game it worked.

thanks for the reply though, and yes i was being serious, more so as dropping turret, ult, and then running away like a man and letting the turret do all the work.

[Togashi]

Oh well then let me apologize for being rude. That is an interesting strat, but I think that's mostly gonna work in PuG's only. In a serious game you'll probably be getting ff'd before you could farm a doombringer, and if you actually got one then you'd be the biggest target on the map. At least the other items I select from don't drop if they decide to hunt you down. Generally by mid game my turret is already doing 100-150ish per hit with mana burn. Also, at level 3 your ult is only going to stop them from coming close for 12 seconds and it's reducable by magic armor.

[Lamer883]

bkb is needed in higher lvls of play, cos with nullfire blade, everyone will surely aim you first.

that is what i think D:

[Togashi]

This is true. I suppose I should include BKB although I feel like it's the kind of item that you know when you need it. And if you need it, you build it.

[Afonzarelli]

very interesting...

just a few points of difference between our ideas

1) Helm of black legion is a great item to start with, but loses its effectiveness later. I use frostfield plate to screw them up even more + keep them in ult longer, and it gives a bunch of armor.
2) Mock of brilliance is my personal favourite item, but a little confusing on this hero. The mock is for chaser (or sand wraith) who can take full advantage of the aura effect. All it does here is make your turrent a bigger target. Charged hammer is infinately more effective because your turrent will proc is so often.
3) Demonic breastplate should be on the item list, the armor and atk spd will give your allies FULL advantage when you ult, leaving you to tinker.

overall a nice colourful guide.

[Togashi]

1) Helm of black legion is a great item to start with, but loses its effectiveness later. I use frostfield plate to screw them up even more + keep them in ult longer, and it gives a bunch of armor.
2) Mock of brilliance is my personal favourite item, but a little confusing on this hero. The mock is for chaser (or sand wraith) who can take full advantage of the aura effect. All it does here is make your turrent a bigger target. Charged hammer is infinately more effective because your turrent will proc is so often.
3) Demonic breastplate should be on the item list, the armor and atk spd will give your allies FULL advantage when you ult, leaving you to tinker.

overall a nice colourful guide.
Thanks. I like your idea of frostfield plate. A significantly more expensive option, but it does carry better into the late game.

While I'll agree that mock may make your turret a bigger target, generally the turret makes itself a big target regardless. So I see little difference in building mock or not. Plus the ability to have it solo kongor is always nice. Haha.

Demonic Breastplate is one of my favorite items, but it's my understanding that the auras don't stack do they? If not, I would rely on someone else building it instead of wasting a duped item on my turret.

*edit: Tested demonic breastplate, does not stack as I thought. Probably not the best use of gold.

[sneakysob]

So you copied the recommended items, and call it a guide?

Ok ...

[Togashi]

So you copied the recommended items, and call it a guide?

Ok ...
I don't know... Seems I did a bit more than copy recommended items. I laid out skill builds and some basic strategies. Thanks for the productive input though.

[Windawasha]

This guide doesn't really address his horrible horrible mana issues (aside from the 3 pots in the beginning).

Power Supply is almost a necessity

[Tsuki]

This guide doesn't really address his horrible horrible mana issues (aside from the 3 pots in the beginning).

Power Supply is almost a necessity
what in the hell!?
what horrible mana issues are u talking about? except for early game, where 3 mana pots are enough. I mean its not like u set turret every 30secs? u also dont spam keg to creepkill. tinker is cheap for mana, and ulti well it has a long c/d

this is an agi hero shuld be played as such. Be conservative in spaming ur skills u dont need them that often. Unless u go some uber ganking build and run around the map ganking all the time, than the obvius choice is a flask, but i dont think this hero is fit for this.
For lane harrasing u have ur tower if its placed well it can stay there and harras long enough to get the mana u used on it back.

[Togashi]

Thanks Tsuki_kage. I have never mana issues except for the early game. Also, Nullfireblade has a nice int bonus. I'm also going to try testing Frostwolf Skull.

[Urvshabon]

Bad Togashi is bad :3

Good guide !

[Kcolraw]

tinker is a joke

auto attack is almost always better

[Bobdoyle]

This guide doesn't really address his horrible horrible mana issues (aside from the 3 pots in the beginning).

Power Supply is almost a necessity


Bottle > Power Supply

and Tinker should be used on enemy towers if u think its useless you are an idiot

[Zaelers]

I don't know if I misunderstood what you said about his ult, or if you misunderstand his ult. It doesn't damage people inside it, only those that cross the boundaries.

Either way... I've used him to go behind a team as they push a lane, as mine counterpushes, and dropping the ult, watching them all run through it twice, along with a turret in the middle... it's good fun.

[Togashi]

Bottle > Power Supply

and Tinker should be used on enemy towers if u think its useless you are an idiot
Thanks Bob.

Also, tinkering your tower during a tower dive can really tear apart your enemy.

[Bootyhole]

Quick Question - Is Doom Bringer ever recommended? And if so, what about 2 Doom Bringers?
You farm 13,600 gold bro.

[Flat_Head]

i thought the turret can't attack kongor anymore? are you talking about just burning him to death with the passive DoT? that would take a while.

[Urvshabon]

I played Engi for the first time and I did basic starting with 4 mana pots and I was fine with mana. Just be smart about when you drop a turret and you're good.

What I learned.

Your auto-attack is < turret + tinker.
Tinker is amazing for anything you can use it on.
Basic valk build is pretty good for your turrets...Ie..thunder claw..etc.

I would ult -> turret -> tinker and then watch lightning shoot across the screen slapping face.

That worked for me !

[elevator13]

Why get Greaves over Ghost Marchers? Ghost offers a ton of early-game DPS for both you and your turret, and a useful phase if you need to get off another Keg.

[_LuX_]

What do you think about getting Restoration Stone?
For double ult in 5vs5 situations

[argondey]

What do you think about getting Restoration Stone?
For double ult in 5vs5 situations
if it made 2 turrets then i would say yes, but i dont even know if his ult stacks, if it does, it certainly doesnt do the amazing damage the turret with 6k more items would do

[Snodtheone]

It doesn't damage people inside it, only those that cross the boundaries.

wrong, it deals periodic damage based on their max hp.

[Dekrow]

wrong, it deals periodic damage based on their max hp.

Correct. It deals 5-6-7% of your max HP every second. So if you stood in it at max level for the full duration with zero regen items on it would deal 70% of your health in damage to you. It is magic, so shaman's headdress presumably lowers the amount of damage it does.

Edit:


if it made 2 turrets then i would say yes, but i dont even know if his ult stacks, if it does, it certainly doesnt do the amazing damage the turret with 6k more items would do

I went into practice mode, made a Pestilence with 6 behemoth's heart and an Engineer. I hit his ult like 10 times (using the refresh button that the test mode gives you) and walked the Pestilence into the force fields and he died within 1-2 seconds without my engineer hitting him once. Since 1 force field would only do 70% of his hp, not to mention the amount of regen he had from behemoth's heart, I think it's safe to assume that his ult does stack. I still dunno how good restoration stone would be even knowing this information, but it does seem to stack.

[Jambee]

I don't know if I misunderstood what you said about his ult, or if you misunderstand his ult. It doesn't damage people inside it, only those that cross the boundaries.


Yes, it does : "While inside the bounds of the energy field, they take 3/5/7% of their max health per second in magic damages"

[Rily]

No shroud to invi pop ult GG combo?

[Freddeh]

I found that a portkey on engie is actually rather good, since hes naturally kinda slow anyway, and being able to set up perfect ults with a portkey can be very key. In group fights i'll hang in the back (typical tempest basically) and then port in, ult, drop turret, keg, then either tinker the turret, tinker the ult, or autoattack depending on how many are in the ult and how farmed i am. Most likely tinker the turret until i get a shieldbreaker up, then start spreading the -armor love after you have shieldbreaker ;).

Basically i like to go power supply->boots->thunderclaw->portkey->charged hammer (haven't decided which boots is best but i've been using steamboots to ok effect, i might try shield boots later, but they don't add to the turret at all, though phase boots look promising for early dps). Then if the games still going or im farming particularly well I'd go for a shieldbreaker, but games usually don't get that far. I find that he has a ton of natural str/int so he really doesn't need that much stat items other than a power supply, and maybe a soulscream ring/bracer.

[Togashi]

Why get Greaves over Ghost Marchers? Ghost offers a ton of early-game DPS for both you and your turret, and a useful phase if you need to get off another Keg.
Greavse are not set in stone. I like them for the early survivability and buffed creep waves for pushing, but Marchers are perfectly viable. Steamboots as well for the survivability (+10 str early game, +10 agi late) and IAS.



What do you think about getting Restoration Stone?
For double ult in 5vs5 situations
if it made 2 turrets then i would say yes, but i dont even know if his ult stacks, if it does, it certainly doesnt do the amazing damage the turret with 6k more items would do
It seems like his ult may stack, which does make that tempting, but the ultimate cost of Restoration Stone is probably too high for the benefit. You'd be better off getting Charged Hammer or maybe even Frostwolf Skull instead.


I went into practice mode, made a Pestilence with 6 behemoth's heart and an Engineer. I hit his ult like 10 times (using the refresh button that the test mode gives you) and walked the Pestilence into the force fields and he died within 1-2 seconds without my engineer hitting him once. Since 1 force field would only do 70% of his hp, not to mention the amount of regen he had from behemoth's heart, I think it's safe to assume that his ult does stack. I still dunno how good restoration stone would be even knowing this information, but it does seem to stack.
Thanks for the testing. I'm going to try it myself as well, but one side note, I don't think the regen on Behemoth's Heart stacks, does it? I may try giving him just one and then setting him up with some magic armor and other survivabilty items.


No shroud to invi pop ult GG combo?
I wouldn't say never do this, but I probably wouldn't. This is better for ults that either do their damage instantly (Soulstealer) or over time (Slither) or at least chasing (Moonqueen). Since Engineer's ult stays where you drop it, it's simply a matter of moving away for your enemies. However, if you know the range of it well and used this to position them close to the edge near the rest of your approaching team, this could be good. It could take them up to 3 seconds to run accross and still get silenced and perplexed, or they can try running out the close side, right into your teams arms. Feel free to try it some and let me know how it goes.

[Chinko_Dick]

very nice guide.

[Dekrow]

Thanks for the testing. I'm going to try it myself as well, but one side note, I don't think the regen on Behemoth's Heart stacks, does it? I may try giving him just one and then setting him up with some magic armor and other survivabilty items.


Even if the Behemoth's heart didn't stack, it wouldn't have mattered. The ult should never kill anyone by itself, because' it's based on hp percentage. Since it did kill my pestilence after only 1-2 seconds, that would mean he was taking damage from all of them.

Again though, like we've been saying, it just doesn't seem practical to get a restoration stone on him, due to how effective so many other items could be with that money.

[Togashi]

I found that a portkey on engie is actually rather good, since hes naturally kinda slow anyway, and being able to set up perfect ults with a portkey can be very key. In group fights i'll hang in the back (typical tempest basically) and then port in, ult, drop turret, keg, then either tinker the turret, tinker the ult, or autoattack depending on how many are in the ult and how farmed i am. Most likely tinker the turret until i get a shieldbreaker up, then start spreading the -armor love after you have shieldbreaker ;).

Basically i like to go power supply->boots->thunderclaw->portkey->charged hammer (haven't decided which boots is best but i've been using steamboots to ok effect, i might try shield boots later, but they don't add to the turret at all, though phase boots look promising for early dps). Then if the games still going or im farming particularly well I'd go for a shieldbreaker, but games usually don't get that far. I find that he has a ton of natural str/int so he really doesn't need that much stat items other than a power supply, and maybe a soulscream ring/bracer.
I like the port key idea, especially since I think Engineer is an initator. Sheildbreaker doesn't seem like a bad idea, although if you have another carry that would prefer to build it, that'd be just as well. It's certainly not a bad idea.

[Kaddy]

has no1 thought of riftshards.
that extra dmg and crit chance combined with the turrets uber atk apeed(or if you like to tinker that extra 100 atk speed) that seems to be a better choice than mock

[Togashi]

has no1 thought of riftshards.
that extra dmg and crit chance combined with the turrets uber atk apeed(or if you like to tinker that extra 100 atk speed) that seems to be a better choice than mock
Actually I was planning to add riftshards soon. And I only included mock for the kongor cheesiness factor. I'm going to update the whole items section soon, with better images too.

[Broodax]

I honestly feel that Charged Hammer is way more of a Core Item then Nullfire blade, but thats just me.

[Beroya]

Eh, nullfire isn't an optimal choice for engineer. The turret doesn't receive attack speed or damage from agility, so the only real effect is the mana burn.

Thunderclaw is a far better alternative generally, since it then makes the turret deal both magic and physical damage, and all of the stats transfer to the turret.

I usually then build up to savage mace, and if the game is not over by that point, I go for riftshards. I've never had a game last longer than the riftshards, but I'd probably build either a behemoth's heart if survivability is an issue or finish the charged hammer if they're not getting wiped out faster than it takes for the turret to die.

I've seen a guy get frostwolf skull on him, though I personally thought it was a bad idea. Worked on some pub players, though. Assassin's Shroud is generally good for escaping or finishing a channel, so I suspect it'd work well on an engineer using tinker.


As for Doombringer, I'd suggest picking it up after everything else has been taken (Riftshards, Charged Hammer, Savage Mace, Boots, and Heart), as it's the only remaining high-damage item left, and with the previously mentioned items, should cement one's ability to eliminate enemies.

[PileOPoop]

This is a very very horrible guide, there is no information here than isnt common sense and the item build is absolutely horrible. Never get hotbl or greaves, and nullfire only depends on your team line up and the opposing team lineup.

[GeneZ]

I tried nullfire and it sucks. mana burn only? first item? really? and ghost marchers best for engineer since adds damage to you and your turret. Thunder claw is the core item for engineer

[GTPhoenix]

is it supposed for the ulti not to dispell jerries magic immunity upon crossing the edge? doesnt count as superior magic i assume?

[Togashi]

is it supposed for the ulti not to dispell jerries magic immunity upon crossing the edge? doesnt count as superior magic i assume?
I don't know if it's supposed to be this way but it does appear that the ult doesn't dispel the shield. So having Nullfire Blade to do it for you is helpful.

[Rikkeh]

I usually go charged hammer and brutalizer, having you and your turret both giving 10% to stun in huge attackspeed, is really nicenicenice.
if I get killed alot I get shroud so i can invis while my turret hits, or to place ulti's

and then i get butterfly for the 30% miss which is nice for you and your turret.

[Glorify1]

Somebody copied my template. :<

[Togashi]

Somebody copied my template. :<
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. =)

[Blockk]

Helm of the Black Legion is a terrible item overall, don't get it. Shrunken Head is a core item after Thunderclaw, otherwise you will not be able to get off nasty tinker + turrent combos.

[Togashi]

Helm of the Black Legion is a terrible item overall, don't get it. Shrunken Head is a core item after Thunderclaw, otherwise you will not be able to get off nasty tinker + turrent combos.
I'm considering removing it but I don't know what to replace the buckler with on the initial items. Any suggestions?

[StealthFire]

Shrunken Head = should be core
Nullfire = meh but passable
Helm of BL = situational pick, makes turret not get one-shot by certain abilities
Frost Wolf = probably no worse choice of item in the game
Charged Hammer/Mace = interchangable core

You definitely want Butterfly (no idea what it's called here) as first luxury, evasion is really the only thing between them and your turret dying instantly(yes it carries over)

People are calling blademail(barbed armor) the premium turret counter, which is what the shrunken head is for, unless magic immunity doesn't block damage return unlike in dota.

A big issue I have with this build is the clear weakness to burst murder earlygame. You cannot cover for low EHP with positioning and reflex skill usage alone, especially against organized teams, no matter how much you want to stretch your e-peen.

I also generally don't bother with tinkering, animation-cancel attacking while chasing/backing away does about as good for damage while halving their damage on you.

[Togashi]

I updated a bunch of stuff. *bump*

[JohnnySmash]

I was using this guide for non-EM and it worked great for me, the ghost marchers are 8x better than the greaves the other guide suggests imo

[Togashi]

I'm glad it worked out for you. Yeah, I used to get greaves but realized marchers are just all around better. Especially since engineer is so damn slow.

[sHoWTiMe]

Don't forget frostwolfs skull! It's awesome, for pubs that is!

[Togashi]

Don't forget frostwolfs skull! It's awesome, for pubs that is!
I did used to have Frostwolf's Skull on there but I realized it just wasn't worth the expense. Your turret pretty much just gains a slow. I think Savage Mace is a much better choice.

[XTenebrousX]

I disagree with some of this guide. I never level The Keg beyond 1 for the sole reason that you don't use it for damage. The duration of the stun doesn't increase with level, so I leave it at one. I usually solo with 1 Pretender's Crown, 2 Runes of the Blight and 4 Minor Totems; this usually results in win.

In my opinion, your boot choice is wrong. Normally, one would buy Steamboots for the turret to attack faster, or Plated Greaves for the armor, allowing you to tinker the turret and survive longer. I also rush charged hammer, and get nothing else save Marchers. Frostwolf's Skull should be added; it's better than a Hack ('n' Slash) and your opponents won't live if you have it. I'd only choose Savage Mace against agility carries, heroes with evasion and/or NightHound (his cloud).

Overall it was an average guide, but I really think you should change the boots.

[Yusel]

Good Guide

My first question is when you FIRst place the turret down is it automatically hitting heroes or does it do that in t's 2nd mode. Next is they're a faster way to click on the turret like a short cut ? I tried hot keying it to 2 but it did not really work out so well.

[Electroid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneakysob
So you copied the recommended items, and call it a guide?

Ok ...
I don't know... Seems I did a bit more than copy recommended items. I laid out skill builds and some basic strategies. Thanks for the productive input though.


HAAHAH OWND. hate noobs that just troll for no apparent reason, great guide i wish that i could play engee. I'm just terrible at getting that keg to actuallly hit someone etc.